Manchester United Banter Archive January 06 2015

06 Jan 2015 17:36:34
I just watched the fa cup greatest moments, a great watch, it must be one of the greatest cups in the world, some great moments and giggs to have the greatest moment caps it off, what ever team you support you just got to love vinny jones and gazza, what a tackle jones put in in macmanam in the final against liverpool, and gazza after beating arsenal with a great free kick, I'm away to get me suit fitted, brilliant!

I think you mean McMahon.

Yes that's right my spelling isn't great.

06 Jan 2015 15:37:24
Strootman yesterday completed his first 90 minutes since his injury and played well by all accounts making 74 passes sitting behind Pjanic and De Rossi.

Three and a half weeks left of the transfer window to go. If he gets a few more 90 minutes under his belt would LVG be tempted to get Woodward to make our move?

06 Jan 2015 20:20:02
Fresh, I'm not going to embarras myself by talking about money (I'll get that one in before Ed002 does lol), but I think we will probably want t9 move players on before any significant signings are made. I don't want be get into FFP and all that lot, but I think wage expenditure is an issue for us right now. We still too many people on relatively high salaries that are not going to be involved with the first team, so I would imagine moving them on first is a priority.

I read this somewhere "Only 3 clubs in the world have the ability to spend over £100m in one transfer window: Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, and Manchester United" don't know how true this is.

07 Jan 2015 10:36:45
Pjanic - there's a wee player I always liked.

Pjanic is who we should be buying not strootman.

06 Jan 2015 14:02:17
Has there been any progress on the De Gea contract talks? Seems to have gone a bit quiet and with LVG not willing to discuss it with the media, it makes it difficult to understand where we stand in keeping him.

If De Gea carries on the season the way he has and United have success (CL, Cup) - Player of the season for me by far.

06 Jan 2015 13:15:29
Can anyone shed some light on what kind of player Kevin Strootman is and would he improve us, would he be a first team starter every week? I haven't personally seen anything of him and heard mixed reviews, someone saying that he is exactly like Carrick but with a left foot. We're would this actually leave us then, playing them both in centre midfield, in which formation? Would this work for us, would it not make more sense buying an out and out defensive midfielder like De Jong and letting Carrick free to push forward, or getting a complete box to box midfielder like Vidal or Gundogan??

I think we are 2 world class centre backs and a world class centre midfielder off being a world class team.

Thoughts.

He is very similar to Carrick in terms of using the ball well, keeping it and always being available for a pass. However he has more to his game in that he can get forward a lot more and is a lot more mobile / powerful than Carrick is. He is a box to box midfielder in my mind, he gets up and down well and gets his fair share of goals.

Carrick is a far better player

They are different players jred. You can't directly compare them as Strootman has a bit more power and pace in his game.

Carrick is getting on though and Strootman would be a good replacement.

You can't compare them, Fresh? I could have sworn that's what you just did above

Fresh
Eh

They are very similar in certain respects but Strootman has a more rounded game and is more box to box.

So is he ideal for us then and will he immediately improve our starting eleven, is this what your saying then, can they defo not be compared? Even a bit?

{Ed004's Note - I think Strootman under the right guidance could be a top defensive midfielder. He seems intelligent, is a leader (captaining psv and holland), very good tackler and has quick distribution. Would offer a bit more of a presence in midfield compared to Blind and Carrick. Could be our Matic IMO}

A matic type player is a player we could really do with, he is one of the reasons why Chelsea are so difficult to break down, opposing teams get through our midfield far too easily.and have done for a number of years now.

Douglas

He is no where near Matic mate and fresh's description of him is way off. Matic is a beast and we missed out there.

Try slow, does not have a shot and a simple passer. Very easy for guys like Erickson, Nasri, Silva or any midfielder with pace to run past and leave him for dead as he has such poor initial speed once turned.

He is suited to Italian league which is slower and you have so much more space, the PL is different animal. Pogba, and a healthy Vidal is what we should be looking at.

Well let's just get them then I say, and an healthy Gundogan too 😀

06 Jan 2015 10:22:56
Do you think our league is too competitive to bring our youth players through effectively?

I don't think it's any coincidence that the only teams who have done this recently to any level, either walk their leagues or have financial difficulties, (correct me if I'm wrong, just off the top of my head).

For example it looks like Wilson, Blackett, Januzaj & McNair are the key 4 for us, yet when our players are fit it will be a case of them being nowhere near the first team as we can afford to buy ready made players in their mid 20's. If we spend 2 years limiting our quality whilst fielding them, then we sacrifice points, plus more often than not the gamble doesn't pay off.

I think with the amount of money in the game at the top now maybe youth development should be left to other teams and we concentrate on having the very best ready made players playing. I appreciate this is against tradition and the way the game is meant to be organised, but there really isn't any structure to the development of let's say Wilson, he will play a limited amount of games if our first choice are fit and relying on games based on other peoples injury is hardly a structured youth development program.

Maybe if we left youth players with their parent clubs or smaller teams we would see more quality coming through. All these players that Chelsea, City and we snap up very rarely make the grade and even if they do, it takes so long there is always the chance they leave due to lack of games - Welbeck, Pogba etc

Just a thought, let me know what you think?

The top players will always make it

06 Jan 2015 11:08:40
I posted something similar the other week about the progression of Nathaniel Clyne, and how he would be nowhere near the level he is at now if he had joined United and sat on the bench, and fair play to him for taking a good step for his career rather than the big money move to sit on a bench until people got injured.

Chelsea and City stockpiling young English players who will never get a chance in their first team is detrimental to the English game as a whole in my opinion, not saying United haven't done it, but generally we allow players the chance and if they aren't good enough they leave, Chelsea have 26 players out on loan I believe which is just ridiculous and I imagine only 2 or 3 will get a game in their 1st team.

I disagree on Wilson who is getting plenty of game time already when all of our strikers are fully fit, he has only just turned 19 and by the time he is 21 I would expect him to be a first team regular meaning we will not need to spend 30-40 million on a striker. People are saying that he has not been great in the first team yet, but if them people had watched him in the under 21s they would realise he is absolutely class and this experience he is gaining now should mean by the time he is 21 he is one of our better players.

The expectation put on united by fans and the press is that we play attacking brilliant football and play well every week, like you keep asking for, so it means players who need a bit of time to settle do not really get that time. A lot of our younger players get hounded out before they have the chance to prove themselves because they have 1 or 2 bad games.

True jred, but could we equip them better? The worlds best players play regularly from a young age 16/17 ish especially South Americans, most of ours barely get started until they are 21/22, (playing regularly at high level).

I agree with Jred. Top managers give the best young players chances. The average ones don't make it in the top Leagues.

GDS2 - I suppose the proof will be in the pudding with Wilson - he hasn't brought anything to the first team so far, if we had an experienced striker in reserve would they have made a difference against Stoke, Villa etc, those draws being turned into wins?

That's my point really, whilst we wait for Wilson to develop we potentially lose points, points we can't afford to lose because we no longer dominate the domestic game.

I'm all for developing youth, but I don't think its possible anymore if you want to win everything in such a competitive league. Certainly the development will not be as good as it could be in most cases due to a lack of game time and patience.

06 Jan 2015 11:40:53
I agree but also think that there might be more chances next year for younger players at United, hopefully a better showing in the Capital One Cup and European competition will give a fuller fixture list and more chances for rotation.

Gds
If fabio and raf both got chances at united why would clyne of sat on the bench.

Beast
I agree to a point but the truth is to play for chelsea city madrid you need to be one of the best players in europe and tbere aren't that many 19 year olds about at that level

To be fair united have give plenty a chance the good ones made it the others never.

Which young players have left united and turned out to be a top top player.

Jred - that's kind of my point. The top teams cherry pick the top youngsters and because the development strategy is all over the place many of them never turn out to be as good as they should have been. Obviously many cases like Morrison can't be blamed on our policy because there are many with talent that don't apply it or simply just peak at youth level. But it does seem odd how few top players are coming from City, Chelsea & Utd when we have typically first dibs on the best youngsters.

Beast who would you say the last 5 top players are to of come through the ranks in the epl

For the age range I'm most concerned about 18-25. Probably Wilshere, Ramsey, Stirling, Ox, really struggling, maybe Rafael. These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are better examples.

For young players to do well they need to be given a lot of games early on, I just don't think in such a competitive league Utd, Chelsea & City can afford to do that if they expect to win titles anymore.

Maybe introducing a rule that 2 players need to be in each team that are under 21 will help with developing young potential to where it can get to, rather than stifling it.

Most youngsters will dream of playing for a CL club, but in reality it can often present a slow down in their development and allows lesser youth players to catch up.

Bale rooney owen all playing at a young age i honestly think if they are good enough they will play.
Hazard was only 20 and a regular for chelsea .

Yeah but Rooney is the generation before and we bought him ready made, Hazard was a first team regular for Lille, purchased ready made and yes Bale is a good shout. A lot from one club in our lists though, Southampton produced because they play their youth from an early age perhaps.

Thats the standard your looking at tho

It is tough and you can't say that United give more chances than anyone else. Yes we have seen Rafael mature from a young player, we have a 19 year old playing at left back and we have a bunch of 4 year old's playing in central defense.

It is tough though as is shown with Pogba. Young players can perfom and I would say that we are probably fairer than most. LVG's philosophy is about developing youth and integrating them with the first team also.

Southampton have a tremendous record, their academy is excellent but I think this was initially helped by dropping down the league's where younger players had less pressure than there is in the EPL. But you even see them now bringing through new players like Hesketh and Ward-Prowse.

The Southampton list is exceptional though:

Clyne, Shaw, Bale, Ox, Walcott just to name a few.

06 Jan 2015 17:59:22
It is getting harder for us to integrate youth Imo, when you look at the likes of Chelsea and city who we are currently competing with, compared to the 90's where we generally only competed with 1 team and they didn't have a plethora of world class players like city/chelsea do today. Still, it is possible and we will only reap the benefits long term by integrating them. A point of note is that FFP may actually put more of an emphasis back on youth development, so we shall see.

Fresh that is a good point on Southampton Imo re less pressure. Someone mentioned stirling above, would he have got the same chances had Liverpool been an established top 3 club competing for titles? I doubt it.

It is a tricky balancing act but one I hope we continue to pursue, and I sure we will.

06 Jan 2015 09:49:06
"'We are still building up a process. I think, as a trainer/coach and manager, that I have to analyse the performances of my players because that is the most important thing and that shows how far we are in the process.

'That is still not good enough, in my opinion, but I hope we shall improve.'

Doom and gloom lvg

06 Jan 2015 10:05:25
I read this article this morning, and I knew you'd be quoting it on here :)

Couldn't resist .
I think he must of read my post yesterday

I don't see why it is doom and gloom. It is showing that he has far greater ambitions than where we are now.

Exactly jred, almost after every game he says he was not happy with the performance - do something about it then LVG, it surely can't be too difficult to couple results with performance when you have the tools you have available!

There has been an improvement this season under LvG even when the newbies have not played, but for me we are still well below where we need to be. Confidence has slowly started to come back, but the defence is bog standard and we are still a little light in midfield. If we can improve these two areas then the attack will benefit from it. Carrick has given the side some stability, but Evans has struggled in defence, Blackett and McNair are inexperienced and Jones, Rafael, Shaw and Smalling are injured 90% of the time. Rafael is unreliable and Valencia & Young are not fullbacks. Even with five at the back we look error prone and shaky. A top notch CB and midfielder is what we need. Perhaps a RB too. All in all I would have to agree with LvG, we have not been good enough despite the results and we must improve our performances.

Jred,
You'd rather he says, that's us at our best?

06 Jan 2015 11:14:58
mbd,

The post was a dig at me, but it is a totally misguided dig, based on a post where I asked the question 'what do we need to do this season for people to stop complaining about the performances'. If we won the fa cup and finished 3rd but the performances were still not great as they are now, would the people moaning be ok with this.

jred,

The beginning of his comments say 'we are building up a process', some of the people on here have suggested it is no better than last season and that nothing is being built at all.

I have said on many occasions I think we have a lot of room for improvement, but the fact we are 3rd playing how we are has to give the players confidence and I think with the players we have and people coming back from injury I would expect the performances to improve and not much point complaining when we are on a long unbeaten run.

In an ideal world Sydney we get a box2box midfielder, a centre half, a new winger and to be honest could even do with a couple of new reliable fullbacks if we were being greedy.

06 Jan 2015 12:31:11
Fresh,

I agree, although I think if Shaw gets fit and stays fit for longer than 45 minutes he will be a mainstay at left back for the next 10 years. The others are positions we need to fill with top quality and then with a few players leaving in the summer we would have a squad capable of challenging next season. The players are out there that would fit perfectly into how LVG wants to play, I just hope they want to sign for us.

I read your post GDS2 as well. :)

I sometimes can't help but feel that some of the doom merchants that post regularly (won't name names as you know who you are).
Gds

as i said yesterday is it doom and gloom or just taking the red tinted glasses off and giving an honest assessment and discussing united.
on what is a united banter site

06 Jan 2015 13:33:39
Do you think that there are no doom merchants on here then?

Look at these quotes from jaime after the Yeovil game:

'This game proved fletcher should be released asap'

'Rooney cannot play midfield he's one of the best Fwds in the league but wouldn't get a game in the championship as a midfielder and he'll be knackered on the hour'

'Falcao is terrible should look more into he's real age he's about 34'.

'5 months in a Nd shaw looks like the biggest lemon ever bought in football.'

'No matter the result now how can the players walk away from this with anything other than embarrassment'

'Moyes' sides were never this bad to watch'.

Is that an honest assessment without red tinted glasses or a doom merchant? Also, if I question somebody's opinion, surely that is what a banter site is all about, I haven't abused anybody or called anybody a nasty mean name.

LVG will have no allegiancies to British players like SAF would of. SAF would give Shaw more time than LVG will, if he doesn't get fit he will be second choice to someone new like Rodriguez who we were linked with in summer.

I think you are right about loyalty Fresh, but on the flip side he will be answerable to the board for sanctioning £30m on a backup left back if what you say happens.

Gds
I honestly though he was on the wind up.

But like i have said before it seems if you post anything a bit negative on here certain people don't like it.

06 Jan 2015 14:21:48
To be fair, GDS, you're picking out one guy in particular, who is either a troll, or 6 years old.

Beast is the only other guy I've seen on here who has actually called for LVG to go, and he makes an effort to back up his argument.

I think there's a lot fall into a camp, like me, who, while we appreciate some of the obstacles put in his way, are still to be totally convinced by some of LVG's tactics and decision making, and who will mention it from time to time, but would in no way be calling for a manager to be sacked this early into his Utd career.

99
Have to agree with all of that

Perfectly put noucamp .

06 Jan 2015 16:14:46
Noucamp99,

Agree fully, I am also in that camp, have made that clear time after time.

jred,

look at all of jaime's posts over the last 12 months, I don't think it is a wind up. I never said in my 'doom mongers' post that I was aiming it at 100 people, just asking a question of the people who are, I have told you I didn't mean you!

06 Jan 2015 18:26:48
Don't worry, GDS. I knew you were. I think jred's just bored with Sydney now :)

LvG needs time, I think most of us would agree with that. Is he getting away with a lot that Moyes couldn't? Well yes, that most certainly is the case. With the amount of investment made, I expect better from a top coach. Might sound banal but, Moyes might have done better with Falcao, ADM and Herrera in his ranks. What gets my goat more is "some players" making an effort, players who were not arsed with Moyes around.

I still think LvG will eventually do well, he needs time though. I hope we are patient. Anyone who says "he must be sacked" is a troll

Deeps.

06 Jan 2015 18:54:01
Deeps, one of the most balanced and succinct posts on LvG I have read. Totally agree.

Deeps
Again 100% agree

LVG must be sacked with immediate effect and replaced with Berty basset :-)
No seriously, the mess we was in before he arrived is going to take time to fix, LVG will fix it but we as fans will also feel frustration with his decisions at time.
I've mentioned on a previous post about mistakes he has made and not learned from them, that's my only issue.

Deeps - "Anyone who thinks LVG must be sacked is a troll", well I am not a troll. I think he should be sacked as he has not lived up to anything he has said so far. The league table flatters us and it looks like we have had zero investment performance wise. Granted there will be reasons for all of it, but there are reasons behind why Moyes got the sack and every other manager gets the bullett. Due to Moyes we are giving this guy far more wiggle room which is softening peoples perspective in my view.

Ultimately I am not happy with him or his methods, therefore I would prefer it if he is moved on. However I totally understand why most people think otherwise, I wouldn't be arrogant enough to call them trolls for having a different opinion to myself. Mine may be extreme, but it doesn't mean I am not right with my view.

I suppose I just take a firmer more decisive line, most people have a lot wider grey area than me and are prepared to allow the rope to lengthen.

A ruthless supporter of the team, certainly not a troll Deeps!

06 Jan 2015 08:37:03
Banter please Ed

I know it's late but Happy New Year everybody. For some, 2014 has been a success whereas for others it has been a sad and/or challenging one. For me it's not been great but when I was down this definitely worked for me.

I went to see my Doctor and he told me the way to achieve inner peace is to finish all this things I have started. So I looked round the house and I started to write this status as I finished off a bottle of Chardonnay, a boddle of Glenfiddich, a boddle of um, a package or Prungles, the mainder of bot Prozic and Valuminium scripting, the res of the trifle and a box of chocoletz.

You hat no idr how bluddy fablus I feel rite now. Plaese sned dhis orn to dem you fel are in need of innr peas. An tellum u luvvum (hic).

Haha brilliant 😂

You don't want to mix Valium and alcohol AJH, you will wake up in a cell wondering how the hell you got there :)