Manchester United Banter Archive November 06 2013

 

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06 Nov 2013 21:44:41
hmm dortmund 0-1 arsenal
sunday looks like its going to be a good game

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06 Nov 2013 20:43:34
The criticism and lack of support to our players and Moyes is astounding on this site.

Okay, I'm going to try to give my view on the start in the best possible way.

A couple of years back I used to play table tennis professionally. I used to play with a racket, Yasaka. It was very good, expensive, and I was used to it and I was getting some good results. My trainer thought I was getting better by the day, and it was time for me to buy a even better racket.

I got the " Butterfly ". It was much faster, had much better control more spin on it. And for the life of me I could not figure out how to use it. It was too fast for me, and I wasn't used to it. For the first couple of months I sucked but slowly but surely I regained my previous form, and with time I got better than I was expecting, even winning state championships.

Now Moyes changed his proverbial racket. He was used to a reliable racket that he has overgrown. Now he has one more befitting of his qualities. But even if it's better than his previous one, he needs to get used to it.

As some have said, this is Fergie's team, his racket racket, and Moyes is playing with Fergie's, not his own, but Fergie's ( lol ). He needs time to get used to the team, and implement his own style. He tried to buy the players he needs to get the best possible results, but Woodward failed and Moyes needs to get the best out of this particular team, which is not yet his own, and he needs some time to be able to do that.

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I have a friend who plays table tennis. He was a decent player, had a decent racket, and did decently well. Then one day his friend, a table tennis grandmaster, announced he was retiring, and gave his championship winning racket to my friend. My friend did relatively well with it, better than he did with his old one, but he never won a championship. Some people are winners other people are not, no matter what racket they have.

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Hi gents,
gooner in peace. Mick1's post was fantastic but the reply from danny was brilliant,
can I just say that Utd are still a fantastic team and as well as we are playing, you still scare the pants off me.

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So basically it all boils down to who has the best racket? Didn't we know this already?

The question is whether Moyes know which is he best racket and are the club prepared to pay the price of the best racket.

So, we're back to square one where we all know the racket we have is worn out and we need a new better one.

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All I am saying is that Moyes is playing with ferguson's team and should be given the necessary time to adjust and improve the areas he needs to.

Only when he builds his own squad will he be judged

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Mick

I heard the same said of Dave Sexton when he took over Tommy Docherty's exciting FA cup winners and made us a dour outfit. That could be a more prophetic analogy

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Moyes does need time to get used to his new racket. But his new racket is far superior to his old one. Perhaps he needs to change the way he uses that racket? Improve his technique a little. Maybe even go for a few attacking shots rather than his usual backhand defensive shots!
You know what they say about a workman and his tools.
Anyway, I thought bats were used in table tennis?

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Well Betty I've met englishmen who called them bats, while we (USA) call them paddles. Rackets are the most common though.

Guetting well of target aren't we.

Red Man, I don't disagree on that. It could go either way, the man could keep us at the top of European football ( or arguably bring us back ) or he could well get us relegated ( exaggerating to make a point ). But without giving him time to adapt to the squad, the man stands no chance

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Mick

As I have said before Moyes is the risk United didn't need to take. If we were sat here with a proven manager we and likely the majority of players would be far more comfortable that the new manager could turn us round or even carry on the success whilst doing it. So far there has been no new manager bounce which surprised me. I want him to succeed but I recall the pain of era's where we appointed inferior managers who couldn't do it and Moyes has yet to prove anything. Massive risk and weight on his shoulders

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Table tennis is a fine game but the analogy really lacks any basis in the current debate. Football is a team game for a start and therefore functions within another sporting dynamic. Mr Moyes is no more a table tennis player than he is football coach. He actually has lots of rackets or bats at his disposal and yet seems incapable of producing a single decent shot from his side of the table.
Unfortunately he has been left a team, and club, in decline. This has been in progress since 2005.
The club has just undergone a major upheaval and it has been managed very poorly. I was glad Fergie retired. He should have retired after 2008. He was a brilliant manager, who achieved amazing things at our club, he gave us incredible, unforgettable moments. But he shouldn't of given us Mr.Moyes. Shouldn't of been allowed to.
Sad thing is, the beautiful tradition that makes our club great: the spirit with which the game is played, the attacking, cavalier approach, the never say die swagger and attitude, the pace, guile and outright life enhancing enjoyment of the game-I don't see that or know where it has gone. I do know that Mr Moyes is not the man to bring that back, regardless of what he is like at playing table tennis

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06 Nov 2013 20:16:28
I for one can not understand this obsession with some people we have a poor squad! This does the players and SAF a great disservice.
We have 2 world class strikers with quality back up. One of the best goalies in the world with 4 very good CB ( not including Ferdinand who has servers us well) as well a top RB so yes another CB and a replacement / cover for Evra. A couple of international midfielders are not making the grade but given the promising youngsters the squad is a easily one of the best in the league.
We needed 4 top quality players not a new team like when SAF took over.

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Ackerman

Stop being sensible. This squad is a disgrace and needs disbanding, it's the wors squad in living memory. It's a disaster, we're all doomed.

Sorry, got carried away with the current negativity. I think it is mainly the middle where we are lacking, both the centre and out wide. A new LB, 2 CM, and 1 wide player would cover it, assuming they are all top notch. I think adding class will mean other players raise heir game.

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Acker,

Stop breaking it down and talking sense, we drew a match last night it's all about negativity and how we are going downhill fast and not going to win anything.

The sensible realistic people like yourself realise we aren't playing great but we are 4 players away from being top class again, not a full 11 players as I read somebody say yesterday.

Good post mate.

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So it is safe to step away from the window ledge then SJH!

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Even the more optimistic of you agree we are still 3-5 top players short of a great squad. The lack of 2 of them - the midfielders - is what's causing the team to look so pedestrian. Fixing that hole will probably not be done cheaply.

This weekend will be a great test. Arsenal play a more modern style with a single striker. All around the team they have pace, accuracy and skill coupled with excellent teamwork and tactics. Now that they have money to spend they will be very capable of winning any competition they enter.

Let's hope we can nullify them.

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Don't worry pea, Moyes will play with two in midfield and two wingers and then, when arsenal climb all over us, we'll sit here and wonder why?

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06 Nov 2013 16:45:31
Perhaps Moyes's obsession with bringing in a completely new back room team distracted focus from the very real need to acquire at least a couple of players over the summer to replace SAF's many aging squad members and less than stellar signings since the end of the Ronaldo era. But consider also that Moyes may have a completely different tactical plan for United going forward - one that would take a few years to fully implement. One could hardly argue with him if he did.

Yes, SAF bequeathed him the EPL champions, but I think most pundits agree it was a team with plenty of shortcomings, brewing problems with major players, and limited future potential without significant investment. I believe the Board is aware of all of this, and for this reason - unless our league position is as low as mid-table - Moyes will be given at least 2 seasons to prove himself. It is only when he has started bringing in his own players to meet his own tactical approach that we will be able to measure his ability.

Come what may, it will be extremely hard for him to succeed either in England, where tactics have changed, or in Europe without plenty money. Had it not been for the Glazers debt we would have had more than enough.

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Acker, sorry but I strongly disagree. If Utd are to match the quality of the top squads in Europe then about 10-12 of the current squad need to be replaced.

I'm not saying that the ones who need to go are necessarily bad players, but they wouldn't get into the squads of Barca, real or bayern and they're the benchmark.

here's 11 to start with; please tell me if you think any of them would be taken on as squad members for any of the aforementioned teams.

Not all of them need replacing straightaway but I'd suggest they'll be ready to go within a couple of years:

Young, Nani, Ferdinand, Evra, Anderson, Fellaini, Valencia, Fabio, Carrick, Cleverley, Giggs.

That's how drastic it is in my book. Half the squad isn't up to scratch and it needs a major overhaul.

I really hope Moyes is up to the task. People need to realise just what he's up against and give him some space to deal with it.

Four new players will help but it should be just the start.

Viva la Moyes revolution!

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Not sure if the glazers are up to the task. Then we have the equaliser making sure he offers clubs half of what they're asking for players, and even if the glazers cough up and the equaliser gets lucky, then we have to pray that Moyes buys the right players. Ie. Not more Fellaini's.

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06 Nov 2013 14:11:57
hi guys, ed's:)it's not the players, please .it's moyes and his staff who are not good enough to coach saf team of champions and instead of makeing them feel good and give them confidence he blame our players if he does not win, and play's for not to lose so how can he blme them they have like won the league 5times and moyes does think that his everton team where as good as us, I think moyes is struggling he knows he made a big mistake not atleast keep rene so instead of going for the kill or for the win he plays for draws, moyes has to change quickly or he will lose his job if he does not go for the win, hope he makes it but we will found out about that soon enough, have a nice day btw I bet 2 draws in leverkusen and juve yesterday and won 1100kr it's like betting 10pounds and u won like 110pounds, does someone have good tips about todays game I was thinking napoli will win with 2 and dortmund with 1 score zee:)

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Zee,

You really need to get over the obsession with Moyes mate, the fans at the ground are behind him and are doing as Sir Alex asked. I assure you it could have been a lot worse than this.

SAF has given Moyes his worst team for years to work with. Moyes decided in the summer to start with a clean slate and allow every player the chance to prove themselves, hence why nobody left in the summer. Once he has made his mind up on the players he will get rid of the dead wood and bring in the players we need, that I imagine he is already scouting.

The reason he has taken this approach is because he knows he will be given time, something that most managers are not allowed in the current game. We need to get behind him like SAF asked us to.

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Hi Zee,
Not sure what has happened you used to be a ray of sunshine, and now the complete opposite.
Moyes wasnt my choice to take over in the summer, far from it, and I certainly wasnt thrilled about Rene leaving, but both of those things are done now. There is no point constantly posting the same whether we win, lose or draw.
Moyes is the manager now, like it or not, and all we can do is back him to grow into the role, instead of constantly looking for an opportunity to dig the knife in. We have actually played better the last few games (the sociedad game aside) and results are coming. We all now we had a shocking start, but we are 3 points of chelsea with the so called "second coming" and are steadily climbing the table. Win on Sunday and we blow it wide open. I for one will be cheering the team on, and backing the man tasked with replacing a legend - just an idea for you.
RomanRunner

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I am with GDS on this one. While there are some strange decisions taken by Moyes in terms of substitutions, playing 11, tactics and our general attitude, you can't go any further than SAF in terms of putting the blame on. This is SAF's squad. Yes he managed this squad and they "over performed", but that does not take away the fact that we are in dire need of replacements. The first 11 is poor, our midfield is the worst in the top 10 and our wingers have been average for more than a season now. It will be unfair to expect Moyes to make this squad play attacking, fluid, one touch football. He should partially take the blame, he should have started much before July 1st. But primarily it is SAFs stubborn attitude and reluctance to replace ageing players that has put us in a spot.

I doubt if Guardiola can make us play an exciting brand of football with our current personnel. It is a sticky period, let's be true to our manager. Support the squad and back them. I am prepared to take a patchy season with no silverware. Yes if it is not addressed in the near future, the whole lot should be sent packing.

Deeps.

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The question is do we give Moyes free run at the cheque book when his first purchase, Fellaini, is not inspiring confidence in Moyes ability; that is the ability to choose a United player not an Everton one. I am uncomfortable at what Baines might cost us, not just in cash but any player sacrifice to get him when he is nearly 29.
If the Glazers finally release real major funds how many of us truly trust Moyes with our future? I for one am very concerned given what I have seen so far, especially with Fellaini.

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Red Man, I think we have to although I agree Baines will over priced given his age. Fellaini is an odd one. I'm not his biggest fan but I thought he would do a job for us. Sadly he has looked out of sorts although I think he did ok last night: it was good to see him getting stuck in.

I think we have to let Moyes bring in his own players. It's tough right now but most things that need fixing are not of Moyes's making.

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I Agree with GDS2

I just can't see any better way to play considering our midfielder's are either injured or not good enough? According to some here most would be right, which is why have had to revert to old school tactics

Our 3 best midfielder's "available" played last night, our best a 40yr old yoga enthusiast which say it all really. I think Adnan should of got a run out instead of young.

A 4-3-3 is an option but we don't have the players with the movement or creativity. The fluidity for that formation just is not there.

Moyes is stuck between a rock and a hard place. You play 4-5-1 you have to leave out a striker and again you play with at least one winger and Kagawa as a 10, you may as well play Rooney and RVP and Rooney won't sit deeper in the midfield.

I don't blame Moyes wanting to Play Rooney and RVP in the same team, why wouldn't you? We need quality with the exception of Adnan and Kagawa of course. Moyes needs to find 2 midfielder's that compliment those 4 players and we will be unstoppable

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06 Nov 2013 12:45:08
I was surprised by the amount of negative comments after last night's performance. Granted, we weren't spectacular by any stretch of the imagination, but our performance was professional; and if it wasn't for the fact that we missed some great chances - plus a penalty - we would have won the game comfortably.

For me personally, I thought Fellaini - although sent off - played his best game for us. Kagawa showed glimpses of quality and definitely looked more comfortable when played off the striker. The defence also looked solid, and was rarely troubled.

The team has definitely turned a corner over the past month. We are beginning to look like a good side again. With a few good additions in January, we could be in a position to push for major honours, IMO.

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Samthered

I don't know where to start, mate. So I'll just agree to disagree.

Nothing positive came from that game, whatsoever. We would get slaughtered by any of the big European sides, and that's not good enough for a team that's supposed to be one of the best in the world.

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I agree about Kagawa. He was much better as soon as he went into the hole but we can't fit him in the team. Due to this I would sacrifice him as a bargaining tool for a top signing center mid. Hope fellaini proves me wrong but I think he will be another berbatov who plays well sometimes but moyes has worked with him so he MUST know he is good enough?

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The fact is that we have an average team with average players so what do you expect?
We have been playing like this in Europe for three years now. It's been boring and dull even under Fergie.
We are still playing Giggs at the ripe old age of 39 in central midfield which just shows how short we really are, it's pathetic.
Ashley Young is p*ss poor and an embarrassment to the club.
We need at least three top players to come in January if we are to stand any chance of even challenging for the premiership.
A new central midfielder is a must, a left back and I think that we need a right sided midfielder. Valencia is steady at best but has lost that confidence to go past players.
Get rid of the average crap like Nani, Anderson, and Young who are all on decent money at United.

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06 Nov 2013 11:27:55
Moyes did play not to lose at everton because they were a lesser team and after 10 years there he is bound to play like that at first. He has been left with a poor starting 11 and will not want to lose so just give him time to get his own team together and get off his back. Once he has that he will gain confidence and we will be competing for trophies again. Need to aim for top 4 this season. don't like buying in the winter but need to offload a few straight away and then some in summer. Now; Young, Anderson. Summer; Nani, Buttner, Valencia, Ferdinand, Giggs (staff), Vidic if we get a good offer, Evra. Was looking forward to Fellaiji but he is shocking, not worth £15 Million. Everton must be laughing at us. I won't comment on who to bring in because having read this site for a while nobody has a clue. Moyes will know who he wants. I actually find it interesting that every game is a challenge and I wonder who will play and how we will play. Obviously don't like some results though. We will be fine, support the lads and Moyes.

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Fellaini will be fine he needs time, as for the rest hear hear!

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06 Nov 2013 11:21:46
Last night was a typical Moyes performance that showed the limitations of our current set up. The main positive was that Vidic looked good, so hopefully he and Evans can get a few more games together. Ferdinand, on the other hand, looked scared every time someone ran at him.

In some ways this was Fellaini's best game for us, he actually passed the ball forward and made some decent tackles. But he was clumsy throughout and Moyes should have subbed him before his red card. Giggs was anonymous. Rooney was very poor, sloppy in possession far too many times and he created nothing. Hernandez was very poor and his miss was dreadful. The main problem with the lad is his runs lack intelligence, he seems to just run the line blindly and gamble on being inside. He isn't watching the defenders and the difference between the quality of his runs compared to RVP's is staggering.

Kagawa looked dangerous when he moved to the middle. But he was let down by the midfield who kept passing to Young rather than him. It was obvious that Kagawa had started causing them problems but we weren't feeding him and he drifted out of the game again. RVP will be disappointed with his misses but we looked far more dangerous with him up front.

Finally, Young. He should never have been brought on and his dive was pathetic. A top player would have been fighting to get on the end of Kagawa's pass. But Young is a coward and a cheat and as soon as he felt the slightest tug he was on his way to ground. It's a disgrace that a player like Young is given game time when we have Zaha festering in the stands. I was more disappointed with Moyes's defence of Young. Having made such a big deal about cutting out diving, he needed to discipline Young. He is a serial diver and refuses to stop despite being spoken to by two United managers. Moyes needed to take action, but instead he lied and defended Young's cheating.

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What he didn't need to do was criticise Young live on TV do it behind closed doors when he's actually seen the dive

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Great post Danny, agree 100% with you about Young. He is an absolute disgrace and an embarrassment to all football fans, I was ashamed last night to support the team he was playing for. Moyes’ defence of him I hope was only for the public and behind closed doors he actually wiped the floor with him. I for one never want to see him in a Utd shirt again and that has nothing to do with his ability as a footballer.

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SAF publicly stated that he would have a word with Young about diving. Two months ago Moyes also publicly stated that he would have to talk to Young about cutting diving out of his game. When a player continues to embarrass the club and ignore the manager by cheating, the manager needs to take a public stance and defend the club's reputation by punishing the serial cheater.

Throughout his career Moyes has consistently stated that he does not tolerate diving. Yet, now he's defending a player who has openly defied him by continuing to dive. Young needs to be disciplined because he is a cheater, who refuses to stop cheating.

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Are you not contradicting yourself Danny by saying a " Typical Moyes performance" yet saying our squad is limited in its set up. hardly Moyes fault is it? Especially when this is how we have generally played in Europe the last few seasons!

Although I do agree with you on everything Else, Young was Muck and should be sold to the gypsies never mind another football club. Kagawa looks lost on the left, in the middle much more comfortable. I hope formation can be found where he stay there permanently including Rooney and RVP.

Again Fellaini had a decent game not great pity he got sent off but he'll learn that in Europe its more about reading the game and add that experience to his overall game

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Re-read my post, "the limitations of our current set up." I.e. the limitations of being set up in a 4-4-2 formation with tactics geared toward 'not losing' rather than 'winning'. It was a typical Moyes performance in that we played against a poor team but lacked genuine attacking purpose and bite. This is a game in which we should have driven forward and insured that we were in a prime position to win the group. Instead, if we slip up in Germany we will be in battle to qualify.

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I get what your saying

I just can't see any better way to play considering our midfielder's are either injured or not good enough? According to some here most would be right, which is why have had to revert to old school tactics

Our 3 best midfielder's "available" played last night, our best a 40yr old yoga enthusiast which say it all really. I think Adnan should of got a run out instead of young.

A 4-3-3 is an option but we don't have the players with the movement or creativity. The fluidity for that formation just is not there.

Moyes is stuck between a rock and a hard place. You play 4-5-1 you have to leave out a striker and again you play with at least one winger and Kagawa as a 10, you may as well play Rooney and RVP and Rooney won't sit deeper in the midfield.

I don't blame Moyes wanting to Play Rooney and RVP in the same team, why wouldn't you? We need quality with the exception of Adnan and Kagawa of course. Moyes needs to find 2 midfielder's that compliment those 4 players and we will be unstoppable

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06 Nov 2013 10:34:21
What completely baffles me is why on earth are we still playing the boring old 4-4-2 formation. The best teams have moved past it and are playing exciting one touch football with flair and creativity.

Football is suppose to be entertaining, yet the style united play is long balls to the wingers who cross hoping for someone to get on the end of it.

The reason why this has worked in the past was the fact that we had good delivery from the wingers and after 20 or so crosses the odds are one or 2 will reach the intended target and our strikers were clinical enough to finish.

These days the delivery from our wingers doesn't match up and when it does our strikers can't finish half the time. Teams are aware of the style we play as we have been playing the same way for the past few years, so united have become easy to defend against.

We need to move forward, so we need to start buying players with creativity. And Moyes has got to change his defensive mind. These days we are so afraid of losing possession that instead of taking a man on taking a chance to create something we move the ball backwards and sideways ie. Cleverly, Valencia.

Sorry for the long post, I just get really excited to see each and every game and after the game I'm left feeling irritated and frustrated most of the time.

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It's fairly simple IMO. We failed miserably in the last transfer market over the summer and until David Moyes gets to bring in the players he wants, he needs to keep the players we have happy, namely Rooney and Hernandez. RVP is our best, regardless of Rooney's current form, and will always play in the big games so that only leaves the option of playing 2 up front. Whether we agree with that or not is a different matter.

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06 Nov 2013 09:18:05
That wasn't a very good performance but on another nigth RvP would have scored both his chances rather than hitting the post twice, and Hernandez would have buried his chance and we would have been coming away from Spain with three points and three goals. And how differently things would have looked then.

Thats the difference between the getting the rub of the green or not.

But its hardly a disaster, a win against Leverkusen and we are through with a game to spare and a good chance of finishing top.

And let's be honest considering our position in the league then you can understand if our focus was maybe on Sundays game rather than last nights game.

Lets get behind the team and cheer them on to a win against Arsenal on Sunday.

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Was our focus on the weekend? besides the RVP and Chico change - did we not play probably our strongest 11 that was available?

Maybe cleverley for giggs but not sure if he was 100% fit

The team on paper should have beaten RS unfort this was far from the case - to many players underperforming and need moved imo

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06 Nov 2013 10:50:26
Granted many of those players will play on Sunday, but were they fully focused on the game last night or were they thinking ahead to Sundays game?

Like I said it wasn't a great performance, it wasn't even a good one. But if we had even a little bit of luck at least one of the three guilt edge chances would have gone in and we would have won. But that's football.

We all know the team needs rebuliding, with the emergance of Januzaj then only one winger is probably needed, but that is as well as a new LB, a new dominate CB to lead the defence and at least two midfielders. So that's five top class or potenitally top class players we need at the very least.

Like i've said previously i'd like to see Mangala, Coentrao, Gundogan, Barkley and Konoplyanka. But that is unlikely as I doubt we'll spend over 100m.

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I hate watching United right now.
the poorest guy on the pitch is always the one on the ball. there is zero movement at all!
everyone stands still and waits for the guy on the ball to do something and then run after the ball.
What do they do on the training pitch?
Watch Dortmund and you can tell they train where everyone needs to run to when the team wins the ball. and everyone sprints into these positions and make themselves available.

If we played like this as youngsters we got the hairdryer big time!

The reason Rooney looks so good this season is because he keeps moving, not sprinting, but still, and makes himself available for a pass.

Evra and Kagawa did it to some extend yesterday, but the right side was dead, the center was dead. The worst is when we are starting to build up pressure we have some 5 or 6 players on the shoulder of the defenders, every single one waiting for the ball, but noone coming back and making himself available for a short pass.
This gets the defenders in trouble, because they end up with the ball and there is maybe one midfielder left and the rest are on the shoulder of the defender waiting for the ball to be played deep.

What's the defender to do? hoof it upfield or play back to DDG and hope the players come back and we can rebuild.

Unbelievable!

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Giants,

A 0-0 draw where we missed 3 guilt edged chances and you think it was far from the case that we beat them? Did you watch the same game? We played the way we always played in Europe in the group stages and we were close to getting a vital away win.

The overreactions on this site to a draw are crazy, that's 8 games undefeated now is it not? Only one goal conceded in 3 games, the performance isn't quite there but we played with Fellaini in giggs in midfield last night, we will have a much stronger line up on Sunday, great to see januzaj rested for Sunday can't wait to see what he will do to arsenals defence. Games like Sunday make the season ticket purchase worthwhile, I cannot wait.

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GDS2, totally agree mate. The team has improved over the last month, and last night’s result and performance was decent. On another night, we would have won 3.0, and everyone would be creaming.

We should not forget that we were playing away in Spain, against a team who have quality. If memory serves, we have recorded two victories in Spain - against Deportivo and Valencia – in recent years.

Considering we had a CM partnership of Giggs and Fellaini, I thought we controlled the game.

I expect us to get a result in Germany. We played them off the park the last time we played them, and I see no reason why we cannot win over there.

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GDS2

I watched the same game - We should have won the game, I didn't say we didn't - we missed two guilt edge chances and missed a pen that imo shouldn't have been given.

The performance for the most part was awful - we sparked into life for a total of 10mins where we created those three chances - the rest was garbage, if you thing otherwise you were def watching a different game.

Lets not kid ourselves Real Socidad aren't a great team - how they came third in La Liga shows the difference between the top two and everyone else.
I still expect us to qualify but think it will go down to the last game as I can't see us winning in Germany.

As for the Arsenal match - stronger midfield? I expect Jones and cleverley to be in there with carrick if he's fit.
Carrick, Jones, Cleverley v Carzola, Ozil, Ramsey?
As for Januzaj - he's going to be a top top player and the only bright spark this season but relying on him to be the difference in a match like this just shows how bad the other players have become - young and nani in particular

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Ozil, Ramsey and Carzola do not play in the same position as Carrick, Jones and Cleverley, so that's ridiculous to compare. Januzaj, Rooney, Kagawa, Valencia, van Persie v Ozil, Ramsey, Carzola and Giroud. You see if you pick players that play in the same position actually we look a bit stronger don't we?

Januzaj is the 'only bright spark this season' is he? Mr Rooney might have something to say about that I imagine.

You said it was 'far from the case' that we beat them, then said we missed 2 guilt edged chances and a penalty and 'we should have won the game', so which do you actually think is true?

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06 Nov 2013 07:34:26
We all know we are not playing the way we would like yet but some of the comments on here are somewhat dramatic. Cast your minds back over the last 18 months. Joe Hart was the best keeper in the league and DDG was getting real stick. What a turnaround. Last year Arsenal fans were slagging off Ramsey on their page and he has been one of the stars of the season so far. How about the Vhampions league 2 years ago? We drew at home to Basel and Benfica and then lost in Basle to get knocked out and dumped into the Europe League. As for the talk of swashbuckling football, it's been a few years since I have witnessed that (with very occasional exceptions). I'm not suggesting everything is rosy or we will win the league but constant sniping and insulting Moyes and his staff is not going to help. Someone actually posted that they hate Valencia which shows how far things have fallen. We still need a few players to allow us to compete at the very highest level but it is still very early days.

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Agree entirely, we need a few players, not sure we will spend the money though. Away from home in Europe its crucial not to lose, so don't blame Moyes for that, and we created enough to win.

SAF said last year we needed 3 players (actually 2 or 3) and I agreed with that but with Giggs, Evra, Rio and even Carrick and Vidic nearing the end we need a few more this year. That's a lot of players, hopefully some youth come through but even so. While even under the best of circumstances it would be unrealistic, and probably disruptive, to expect a huge influx of players at once. We need to plan ahead and start a much needed and long overdue rebuild while keeping core players and bringing through youth.

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I agree with most of this. To hear people saying we should go back to our swashbuckling style is nonsense. We just don't have the players with the talent to do that.
We have been weak in a number of positions for a few years and unfortunately SAF didn't address that and left Moyes with problems that I hope he will solve. It will not be sorted in January and even next Summer may be too soon. A number of players need to be sold and we need to buy anything between 3 and 5 top class replacements. David Moyes is a good manager but he doesn't have a magic wand and I don't expect brilliant, exciting football for some time.

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06 Nov 2013 06:27:01
Ed: Who do you think we will sign this summer? {Ed002's Note - See previous answers.}

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06 Nov 2013 09:45:30
The ed has said that a centre back, left back, central midfielder and left sided attacker are on the cards. He has said that Garay seems to be off the agenda but could be. And don't rule out a move for Herrera or Konoplyanka.

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06 Nov 2013 06:32:03
Yesterday in a radio interview Andy Mitten the United journalist commented that the jury was still out on Moyes both for some fans but notably he said for some players.

The morning after reflection is that Moyes plays not to lose, watching is becoming hard work, hard not to be distracted away from our dull negative football. Football taught by Matt Busby is something from our famous song but it is being ignored by Moyes. Moyes put Ashley Young on the pitch and I can no longer accept this, Zaha hasn't been given a fair chance yet Young, whose output is poor beyond belief does.

Is Moyes able or willing to uphold the traditions of United football, to give our team verve? Answers to that may not be to Moyes or the Glazers liking.

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Red man, totally agree and I said that from day one. Most managers have a certain way of playing and managing. They get appointed and they stamp their style of coaching and management on the team and the club.
I can't recall any high profile manager going to a top team and changed his style to suit the traditions of the club.
The blame is entirely on Ferguson and the Glazers for this ridiculous appointment. Ferguson recommended him because Everton had given us hard games at goodison over the years. This was achieved by hard grit, physical approach of players like fellaini and Ferguson (the player) before him. This is how Moyes plays football. He will never change his style to suit our needs.
It is not about buying players, we have a very promising winger in zaha and he's not given a chance. We have very promising players in u21, Powell, Lingard, Dahli but they are either loaned out or sold. Ekangamene has more speed, better tackle and more athletic than all our midfielders, but is not given a chance.
The situation is made even more annoying by the fact that our noisy neighbours are playing in exactly the way we used to play. And before I get the usual crowd on here saying that I should support city, I am merely pointing out the total change of the team character and philosophy, and it is NOT for the better.
Is Moyes going to change now, in a year, or in five years? Not a chance. The players might come and go, but Moyes will still be telling them to play not to lose. This is not United, and the sooner we all see that the better.

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I can understand what your saying and your right but I can't see what has changed from last season in the way we are playing, the only difference is we don't yet have a manager who can the the best out of some fairy average players, maybe he never will but he has to be given time to try and also given time to bring in his own players which is when we can start to judge his style of play. I appreciate his style at everton wasnt fantastic but maybe when he has brought his own players in he can learn to change his style of play, again this may or may not happen but please just give the bloke some time to get used to his new surroundings and put his own stamp on the club, surely people knew things would'nt be fantastic this season, the change has been massive and teething problems were always going to happen and whether we like it or not he won't be going anytime soon so let's not act like chelsea and get rid after 10 games just because we haven't done very well, I don't want to see that happen at our club.

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The owners would want to see an exciting MU side as it would add more entertainment value. The more exciting MU play, the more it will benefit the owners financially and we know that is all the owners care about. It is also pretty obvious that Moyes was SAF's choice in manager, not the owner's. Some of the people at MU wanted Pep Guardiola and were very disappointed when he chose to join BM. It's no secret SAF always wanted Moyes.

Moyes played this very same way at Everton, but managed to get the winning goal that sealed their win or lost narrowly. It's not something I like to see as I want us to be more offensive, but Moyes is yet to bring in the players that he wants so we should probably give him a couple years to see what he does. However he did constantly avoid the question when he signed. When asked if he will play exciting football he answered, I will win first. He wouldn't answer yes. So he was always going to be this way.

On young, I do not like to see players going down easy and I would like to see him sold this summer. We should be looking to offload Young, Nani and Anderson before we contemplate selling Kagawa and Hernandez. I would give Zaha his chance and sell both Nani and Young and replace them with one top winger. Anderson sold and Herrera/Koke signed. Then go and buy Coentrao.

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RedMan, I agree with most of that, but to be fair to Young, a player I've never rated whatsoever, his cameo last night was pretty good - pass for Chicharito's miss, winning the penalty (went down easy, but there was contact), and a nice, intricate little through ball that found Kagawa just offside when through on goal.

A lot of people on here are quick to criticise the same group of players, without being big enough to admit when they've actually had a decent game.

If you're talking about his efforts in general, then fair enough, but I thought his output last night, was far from 'poor beyond belief'.

And on a sidenote, Nomidfield, Fellaini was quite good last night, was he not? Or have you just decided he's worse than useless, and that's that?

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Sydney! I'd like your opinion on Fellaini? I agree with what you said about the players that should be gone! But for me, Fellaini was a massively over priced mistake who looks way out of his depth! more worrying is Moyes knew him inside out before he signed him! I don't think his best position is defensive midfield he looked better at Everton because he played higher up the pitch and got a lot more of the ball and now he can't even get into the poorest midfield we've had for a long long time! what does that say about Moyes decisions? about his judgement? If this is his benchmark and the way he is headed, then we are in trouble and he was a big mistake!

I am of the opinion that he is a mistake surely the criteria for hiring a manager should have priorities and right at the top should be his philosophy and style of play and in this regard I really don't think we could've picked a worse manager! It is just my humble opinion and I'm certainly no expert but I know what I like and expect and I don't believe he can deliver on either! I really hope I'm proved wrong!

I just think he's made so many mistakes already! I don't think he deserves a couple of years if he keeps going the way he's going! I would like to pose this question to all Utd fans, why should we lower our expectations because we brought in a new manager? we have been a really successful club over the last 20 years and now we're expected to give someone a 2, 3 or 4 year apprenticeship at a club that is supposed to be at the top of its profession!

My point is this, if you bring someone into a successful enviroment at a level such as ours then you expect him to step up rather than us lowering standards for a couple of years!

Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, PSG, Chelsea and City all got new managers yet their expectations haven't changed! There are no excuses being made for them so why should we make excuses for our manager!?

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Not at all stevieK. I never rated fellaini but always thought he could do a job. However, since his move, he has looked lethargic and out of sorts. I appreciate, though, that it might take a bit of time to settle. He did have an average game yesterday, which for him, is good!
If you watched him on Saturday, Fulham in the second half were attacking us and his reactions were non existent. They went past him at will. I thought Moyes brought him in to add some strength, steel and tackling into our midfield, but non of this has been apparent so far.
And worst still, is his lack of pace, in a midfield that already lacks pace. All in all, not a good signing, of that, I think even the most die hard fan can agree.

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Hhe shouldn't need time to settle he's not come from a foreign league he's a proven prem league player or so we thought

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06 Nov 2013 00:41:03
The biggest problem we have isn't on the pitch, it's in the dugout. Moyes has got to be a man, stand up and say I'm not up to this. Before he kills this great club of ours. And take his muppet staff with him too.

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No, the biggest problem we have is posts like these and equally ridiculous name tags. Nothing constructive, no insightful observations, just a whine

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06 Nov 2013 15:29:14
My name tag is true to life. How could we get so bad over such a short space of time. I know we wasn't the best team in the world. But we have taken a huge leap back. Moyes only has one way of playing (which is negative and boring) and when that doesn't work he looks clueless. He got rid of some of the best coaching staff in the game, going against Fergies recommendation. I understand we were going take a step back when Fergie left but this is a joke. As I said to a few friends of mine, we won't finish in the top four this season lucky if we get into Europe. Sorry if sounds like I'm just raging, but I live our club and don't want them to fall apart. And we could if we stop being successful. The Glazer will get sick of it and start sell the players to recoup money they won't get from a good sale. I really hope I'm wrong but I don't think I will be. {Ed002's Note - I am guessing you have been spending too long on the Liverpool page - you are becoming just like one of them. Whining, bitching, not all supportive of the team, not will to give the new set-up any time at all. Pretty pathetic really.}

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06 Nov 2013 17:08:15
Ed 2, I thought this is where we can speak our minds. I've never been on a Liverpool site in my life.
I'm raging because I love the club and have done for 30 years. I watch every game live in the the hope this new era works out. I'll support the club to the very end. No matter who is in charge. It's just my opinion that I don't think the tactics Moyes is using is going to move us forward. We need to move with the modern game not step back into the 80's. {Ed002's Note - All I am seeing is irrational unsubstantiated bitching and moaning. I'll dump most of it on the "Other" page otherwise it can just be deleted. It is the same over and over again and it is boring and repetitive.}

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06 Nov 2013 17:47:13
So Ed2 can you honestly tell me you are happy with the way United are setup and playing at the moment? It's old fashion and has no fluidity. We have energetic and mobile players why not try a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3. We need energy and movement. {Ed002's Note - People need to stop being obsessed with formations - it is a complete red herring but seems to keep you all occupied for hours. Manchester United has not had the best of summers in the transfer market nor the best of starts to the season - so what? You need to suck it up and move on.}

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06 Nov 2013 18:07:39
So Ed2 it sounds like you are happy with how our club is at the moment. I guess some people just care more than others. {Ed002's Note - Perhaps it is a case that I understand how poor starts etc. are simply transients events which will be forgotten once things pick up, whereas you seem more interested in spewing bile over the players, club, management etc. - as evidenced by your user name.}

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We look shocking compared to other top clubs. Look at the way arsenal, city, Real, barca and bayern are playing and you realise how far behind in tactics and personnel we are.

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Woah there, Ed02! Stop right now, with the realistic, long-termism. I get suspicious when we agree on something :)

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@Ed002

Well said. Not even 6 months its been since we have changed the manager and everyone seems to be out for his head with their self professed theories of what "Sir Alex would have done". We have looked no different than we did under Sir Alex in the last few years. Perhaps only because it was the iconic man managing United that stopped some on here from having a go at him too, and I think some on here did not deserve a great man like him managing their club.

I can't believe that the very same people who continuously criticized Phelan, tactics under Sir Alex (which Rene was responsible largely for) and Sir Alex dropping Rooney are the ones having a go at Moyes for changing the backroom staff, playing a 4-4-2 to get the best out of both RVP and Rooney, our two best players.

@Nomidfield

That will not change without change of personnel at the club. Moyes is trying to address the very heart of the problems at the club and it will take time and dare I say will get worse before it gets better. He wanted Fabregas/Herrera, Baines in the summer and had those players been here it would look a lot different.

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