Manchester United Banter Archive February 07 2014

 

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07 Feb 2014 21:49:04
Rooney as captain? Wrong on so many levels. Moyes.needs to take control of this team and stamp his authority. Making Rooney captain would be a very bad move and demonstrate that he is in thrall to him. And that's before we get onto Rooney's suitability or lack of

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Making Rooney captain and/ or giving him an improved contract would show the world just how wrong Moyes is for the job.

He came here with the reputation as a hard-ass strong headed dominating manager, which is part of why Ferguson rated him so highly. He got rid of a title winning coaching staff to mark his own stamp on the team.

Kissing Wayne Rooney's behind is quite the opposite of that. Gone is all that confidence and strength of character of Moyes, who seems ready to give anything in his power to keep a disruptive figure in the squad.

Despite his obvious ability, Rooney is becoming more and more of a must-sell as his contract situation drags out. He does not deserve the captaincy, nor does he deserve to be the highest paid player in the league, which he sure as hell would be if he signs an improved contract.

I just don't understand how a player who puts in a transfer request and threatens to join a rival twice deserves to be captain. If Roy Keane had asked to join City, I don't see how he would have stayed on as captain

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If Rooney signs a new deal then he is the obvious choice. He gives 100% every game, he has matured, he leads by example & he will probably be our most senior player as Rio, Giggs & Evra will all likely move on. He would make a great captain.

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I agree there are some factors that mean Rooney might not be the ideal captain, but who else is there really? Vidic is leaving, presumably along with Ferdinand and Evra. Carrick is too unassuming as a player, and him and Fletcher won't be starting game after game. Jones is captain material, but still too young in my opinion and needs to nail down a position/starting spot. RVP? Only at the club for a couple of years, and misses quite a lot due to injury.

I think Rooney is the obvious choice and will become captain if he stays. Bags of experience, guaranteed starter, works his socks off for the team, etc.

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I think our next captain hasn't been signed yet. Surely for the right player, the offer to sign and be Manchester United captain would be an extra special motivation to join the club.

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If we do make Rooney captain we'd have to appoint someone to keep picking up his dummy. I'd like to propose Fellaini, he has to be good at something.

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I wonder how long it'll be before Jones is made captain. Still young at the moment but he's very vocal and let's his feelings be known even to more senior players when they've made a mistake. Don't think anyone would disagree with me when I say there's not one game that's gone by where he hasn't shown any kind of lack of passion or effort.

If Rooney does sign another contract though he's likely to be the captain because who else is there? Apart from RvP.

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Wouldn't anyone like to see Rafael captain? He would lead by example surely?

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I agree we can't appoint a player whose situation in not clear and especially given the history in the last 4 year.

It does give us a good view of Moyes in terms of what he does. I don't think he will do anything until next fall once we have clarity on the team.

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Anon, I don't see Rafael being in Moyes' future plans. He is still very hit and miss and good sources say Moyes thinks he's too unreliable. I don't think he is too wrong there. He is often an accident waiting to happen. We will see, but Rafael will certainly not get the captaincy. I think he would be one of the last.

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07 Feb 2014 20:29:31
Just heard Dave Moyes on the news & he says we have already got a Vidic replacement at the club. He says we have Smalling, Evans & Jones, guess that rules out a top notch CH once and for all. I bet Barca, Real, PSG, ciddy, Bayern are sh^£ting themselves at the thought of facing them. We need a major revamp throughout the entire squad & one of the key areas is at centre half. Evans on his day is good, as is Jones but he is to injury prone to form a regular partnership. And in my opinion Smalling is just not good, reliable, alert enough for such a key role. Add to that the prospect of no CL football next season & the prospects of signing the top class CHs we need is not looking to good. Really hope Moyes proves me wrong as I have defended him many times in arguments at work/pub but I must admit I am beginning to waver. Garay is going to join Zenit for 14mill, Christ even I know he would be a dead cert improvement on what we have. Fernando is for sale for 9 million, another that is far better than what we have. Sorry to be so negative, especially after yesterday, but wise up Moysie & quick because we could end up in a downward spiral like Liverpool that could take years to recover from.

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What do you expect him to say? We are going to buy a defender because the players I have aren't good enough. It also makes us sound less desperate when trying to agree a deal this summer. MU are actively looking at CB's, just chill :)

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Even if he is planning on getting a cb, he would not go advertise it for the benefit of the younger guys.

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Come on, this is Moyes actually saying the right thing. We can all see that we have only 3 recognised cbs next season, and they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory this year. We will be signing at least one experienced cb next summer and everyone at the club knows this, but there is no point stating this now.

All Moyes is trying to do is instil a bit of confidence in the players we have and hopefully it will have a positive impact on Jones and Smalling. It's a big difference from when he was saying we needed a handful of top players before we will be able to compete and that's a positive development.

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Agreed with Syd. Why should the biggest club in the world be worried about? Players come and players go. Fans should support their club and manager; especially in bad times. If the manager is proven to be useless then obviously the club management will know what to do. Why should we announce to the world who we are targeting and plan. Sometimes we says too much to shore up same interest in competition that make our purchases difficult and expensive. Arsene is clever in that he only reveals the target when the deal is almost certain or near done. We tend to tell too much to create unnecessary attention on our targets. So, as Syd said, just chill and let's see what happens. If it comes good, great. If it doesn't, let's see what DM is going to do. But for now, let's just support the club and the manager. I do not think DM was appointed without solid deliberation.

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Agree with Danny perhaps he has learned from his need 5 or 6 world class players comment that was totally ill advised

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Red Man, I agree that Moyes is probably being more careful what he says, but to be fair to him, he didn't mean 5-6 more world-class players, he meant a club like MU should have 5-6 world-class players in the side. He isn't wrong. I think we need 2-3 more.

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Sydney

Like everything else only tidbits are posted and not the what he was responding to.

That specific quote was directly related to a equation he was asked about Our chances of winning the CL.

He was spot on when he said we needed 5 to 6 world class players in the side to win that competition.

Any person with decent knowledge of the game can see how that is pretty much spot on, when you look at composition of the teams that are winning that competition, including our own team who won it last time with arguably 5 or 6 players being at the peak of their careers and world class.

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GCU, nobody is disputing that you need world class players to win the CL. But it's naive to publicly state that your team lack the requisite quality to win the CL just as the competition is beginning because it could damage their confidence. The same way that everyone knows we need a quality cb in the summer but you don't need to say that publicly.

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Exactly Shahram, he didn't mean we need 5-6 'more' WC players, and I completely agree Danny, it may be the case that we need more WC players, but don't publicly announce it.

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Danny

That is if you believe the players are deluded and can't judge football ability on the pitch and how good some of their team mates are. I really did to see anything wrong with it as our stated goal was to try and qualify from champions league.

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07 Feb 2014 20:04:11
Herrera States he doesn't want to leave Bilbao anytime soon, trying to think is that a negative thing, or have we unfortunately not been able to get a real talent? Iv watched him a couple of times and he looks like a player that speeds and slows the play, conducts how the game goes. He done it well against Real Madrid! He is a similer player to Toni kroos but maybe more realistic (obviously not now) will be hard to find another realistic target like Ander Herrera! I see it as an unfortunate miss.

On a positive note I'm excited and a bit nervous to the line up we will start with on Sunday, and how the game will go! This is a perfect game to get back on track.

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I think we messed him around. Maybe if a bid was accepted by Bilbao things may be different, but he does look happy and settled. He's playing very well and would have improved us.

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07 Feb 2014 18:51:09
Hi guys.
Just want my say on the vidic topic, for me not only is he the best cb united has seen but possibly the premier league has seen,, his drive, commitment and leadership is amazing, a real role model, his partnership with rio won us many trophies, the guy is made of steel,,,, sad to see him moving on but it's the right move for the club, we no he can't play all the time and now it's time for others to step up and follow his example,, jones has to improve and become the player he expected to become, smalling has the ability but lacks confidence,

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07 Feb 2014 18:08:36
Not really MU related, but are the West Ham hierarchy nuts? How can they possibly call Andy Carroll's swinging arm unintentional? Come on, he knew what he was doing.

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I asume you are joking Syd, but not sure. If serious, you are genuinely the first person I have heard say they agree with the red card. He was facing the opposite way so couldn't even see Chico and it was an embarrassing bit of play acting. How can anyone know what Carroll was thinking, and therefore prove it was intentional?

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I thought it was a red card tbh, he threw his elbow, wether he caught him or not does not matter, he knew exactly what he was doing!

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It doesn't matter whether we think it was a red card or not. For it to be overturned, it needs to be proven that the referee made an obvious mistake and, as said above, Carroll DID throw his arm around. Whether it was intentional or not is down to the discretion of the referee but as he did Infact swing his arm round it's down to the referees judgement and that's why I don't think they stand a chance of having it overturned. I think West Ham know that too but are chancing their arm (no pun intended) due to recent cards being rescinded.

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Betty, Chico's reaction was embarrassing and deserved a yellow in itself. But Carroll knew what he was doing.

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Bs
gotta say I'm with Sydney on this one. There was a link going round with the incident in a continuous loop. I watched it for a few minutes. Before he swung round you can clearly see Carrol looking to his left to see where he was. I think he defo meant it. Now the playacting was awful and Carrol should have had a foul given in his favour in the 1st place, but the intent was defo there imho.

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Oh well, that's two then lol. Still can't see how you can prove intent. A badly times tackle can still be a red card bacause it is dangerous or reckless. For violent conduct you have to prove intent. I'm not sure you can prove that in this case. But it is debatable, no doubt.

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It makes me laugh when pundits say: "the player had his eye on the ball", you do not need to be looking directly at a player's head to know where his head is.

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TK Red, I agree with that bit about the appeal. Although I think it was a harsh red card, they were never going to convince the panel that the ref had made a mistake.
I know its a whole other debate but the appeals process is a complete sham, as are some of the decisions they come up with (not refering to this case). Also, I know they have a tough job bla bla bla, but there have been some abysmal refereeing performances this season.

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I agree with Sydney.
He has control of his whole body, even his arm.It was a wild swing and deserved a red card.

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07 Feb 2014 18:07:06
I see people saying Rannochia is a possibility. Personally I wouldn't want him, don't think he's good enough. What does everyone else think?

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07 Feb 2014 16:06:09
Whilst I agree with all the posts that Vidic has been a great Player for us, let's be fair; he has been paid an obscene amount of money to do his job!

Does this not smack of a complete lack of business acumen by the Utd heirarchy in letting someone run down there contract. could we not have sold him now for a nominal fee (or even cancelled by mutual concent). I appreciate there would have to be some sort of negotiation as Vidic is going to get a big fat signing on fee in the summer, nonetheless I'm sure this could have been worked out.

Instead we are paying one of our top earners for another 20weeks whilst guaranteed he will play week in week out based upon his injury record, when we could have had a replacement brought in and becomming settled prior to next season and avoided the quadrennial world cup hangover price rises!

It is also somewhat strange that Vidic has chosen to come out with this statement when Evra and Rio are in the same situation and yet have said nothing, . why?

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To be fair Vidic is on half the amount Terry is on and he has been a very good servant. His missus wanted him to move years ago, but he stuck around. MU are going through a rebuild now and it's a good time for all parties to go their separate ways. The club could have sold him and Ferdinand several times, but chose to keep them, perhaps if Vidic hadn't had a bad injury then he may have been sold in the summer, but I guess we will never know for sure.

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Syd,

It's good for all parties but IMO, it was NEVER a mutual agreement.

Vidic didn't make any mention of reaching a mutual agreement with the club. He just said he felt it was time to go. A few hours later, out comes Moyes with his 'mutual agreement' claims. This, IMO, is just damage limitation. I'm not saying for one minute that we ever intended offering Vida a new contract, but I'm fairly certain that he made up his own mind and Moyes' words are an attempt at lessening the blow.

Especially in the wake of Rio being a person on Twitter, and Anderson's supposedly fake comments about several players 'wanting out'. Last thing Moyes would want is the fans to have the impression that everyone is jumping ship.

I would bet any money that there was never a mutual agreement.

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Vidic was always going to leave this summer mate. But I agree that Moyes wanted an extra year out of him.

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Syd

I agree i'm not even saying for sure that Moyes still wanted him, i'm just convinced that Vidic made his decision, spilled the beans and Moyes issued that statement for damage limitation.

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Saw the interview and it sounds like Vidic decided to leave.

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With Moyes saying he's the best CB he's ever worked (no surprise there), I think he was working hard to keep him for one more year. It was definitely not mutual.

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Sydney

I felt the Moyes effort to say it was mutual was a face saving exercise

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07 Feb 2014 14:55:04
With Vidic gone and hopefully Evra and Rio to follow we have a decision to make regarding who the captain should be.

RvP and Rooney are very volatile and have an angry side to them which can surface during any game. They can be fairly unpredictable if the game is not going our way.

Carrick and Fletch won't be first team starters so they can't be considered.

Jones is too young and immature and Mata is young and new.

I would give the captaincy to an experienced CB whom we should buy.

Garay?

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It's difficult to give the captaincy to a newcomer.

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Johnny Evans

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I'd give it to Jones. If he is going to become the player we all want him to be, he could excel with the armband. It will probably go to Rooney, but why not give it the youth!

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I think you'd class Cantona and Keane as volatile but they were both captain.

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From a marketing point of view Rooney is prob the face of United .
Does a lot of the media stuff
10 years at the club makes him a senior pro.
Looks to be the player that others turn to on the pitch when things are going wrong.
One of the best players in the team, will play if fit.
And has a high enough profile to be United's captain .

Love him or hate him I would be surprised if he is not our next captain

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Said the same thing this morning Mumbai, the thread disappeared though. For me, Rooney is a total no no as he isn't a good role model off the field and at times on it. Evans isn't good enough to be first choice, Jones is a bit inexperienced, RVP too injury prone. I think it should be given to a new world class CB or CM. Hummels or Vidal I would go for and offer it them during negotiations. I think it would be good for Moyes to have one of HIS signings as captain, but it would have to be a truly world class player/leader.

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I think giving the captaincy to Rooney would be a smart move. It could be what makes him sign a new deal and what keeps him in shape once he signs the new deal. Rooney as captain, Jones as vice IMO.

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It would be great if Moyes broke the bank for a top, top midfielder and made them captain. That way Moyes can assert some authority on the team (hopefully!)
I have no problem if Rooney becomes captain if it is done for the right reasons ie because he wants to stay and keep fit. Not so that it keeps him here and makes him retain his fitness. I am a Rooney supporter but he has to want it.

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Fletcher for me with Jones as vice captain.
I know fletcher won't play every game in the future but until we sign 2 new cm he should be starting. And when he is starting to play less games we have Jones as understudy.
Fletcher deserves it, totally committed to the cause and would be a good captain.
Jones is the future.

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07 Feb 2014 14:09:25
It's all very well to say Moyes needs to be given time, but the question is given time for what? Those who feel he shouldn't be judged until he has assembled his own team are in for a very long haul. Anyone who believes we will sign 4 or 5 quality players in the summer is living in Fool's Paradise. Leaving aside whether or not the potential targets being bandied about are available or want to come, there's the small matter of an outlay in the region of 150m. Adding this to the 70m already spent takes up way past the 200m mark. This simply won't happen. I doubt even City, Chelsea or PSG would spend this kind of money in the short space of 12 months. At best we can hope for 1, with an outside possibility of 2 key signings in the next window. It will take a good few years for Moyes to assemble his own team.

In the interim this means 'giving him time' to impose his own philosophy and brand of football. From day one he has gone into every game with the exact same formation, played the same style and employed the same tactics. Despite the fact that it isn't working and our football (as well as results) gets progressively worse, there's not even as much as a hint of any variation in his game plan. By sticking so rigidly to it he's regularly forced to play the likes of Kagawa, Jones, Januzaj and now Mata out of position. At what point will he try something different? Does he have any intention, or is he even capable of changing his approach?
So, how much time should he be given and where, realistically, do you see him taking the club?

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I'm sure he can play the gea at centre forward, mata in goal, Rooney at left back, rvp and kagawa to forge an unbeatable centre back partnership, and up front, we can have his favourite two of cleverly and young, and the middle of the park can be marshalled by no other than welbeck.
Anything is possible with DM!

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07 Feb 2014 16:04:48
Who knows how long we give it or how low we have to go before someone within the club questions the appointment of Moyes. I pray for a win on Sunday but if the unthinkable were to happen do we have to listen to the transition theory one more time? Its a good job Sunderland, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea, City and Stoke don't have new managers or they could use the same lame excuse for their defeats. oh sorry they all have new managers and beat us. must just apply to us sadly

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Resol we all want continued success at Manchester United but sometimes you have to go backwards first in order to go forwards.
Although things are different nowadays it took SAF 5 seasons as manager to win his first trophy and then start a period of unparallelled success. I am not saying the same will happen with Moyes or probably any other manager at Manchester United but we have to give him time.
Why do we have to give him time you say? Well the team has been in decline for years with relatively little investment compared to most of our rivals both at home and abroad. That we can't blame on Moyes. SAF could probably get an extra 10-15% out of any player over almost any manager (except Mourinho) because of his stature in the game and hence why we have managed to maintain success with a declining team. We once had a midfield of Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and Keane! In todays game if those players were in their prime that would be the envy of the footballing world. Today we only have a shadow of that in our team.
I understand your concern about how much money DM will be allowed to spend but the truth of the matter is that this summer is going to bring the Glazers real committment to the club into question. If they do not back the manager and go on a big spending spree then they run the risk of having a period of no success and possible non qualification for the CL. Something that will effect the club turnover, profit and value. The Glazers are serious money men and so they will realise that this can't be allowed and that we will need to spend big in order to protect our sponsors etc.
I don't want Manchester United to yoyo in andn out managers as per many of our rivals. There are questions over Moyes's tactics/formations etc, but he is a man that listens, takes advice but then makes his own decisions. He has the best advisor in SAF and so we have to give him a chance to realise what needs to be done. He turned Everton around from 17th in his first season to 4th the following season.
We need to have patience in order to do things correctly. That is the Manchester United way!

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Just saw snippets of DM's pre-match press interview. He looks weary and haggard, with an air of complete defeatism. No sign of his usual smirk or snigger. Only seemed interested in trying to answer critics with excuses about the departures of Vidic and Muelensteen. Didn't look up for the challenge of Sunday's game, let alone the next 5 years. I almost felt sorry for what appears to be a broken man.

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Hoggy, please believe me that the last thing I want is for us to embark on a managerial merry-go-round. I simply question whether we have made the right choice as I cannot find a single positive in what he has done to date.

Your analogy with Fergie is an interesting one. Yes, he did not achieve instant success but he did make immediate changes. He got rid of the 'drinking' culture, instilled a greater work ethic, revamped the training and medical facilities and enhanced the youth system. He also gained immediate respect from the players - something I fear Moyes has lost completely and will find it difficult to regain.

All I'm saying is that if we have made an error, then let's rectify it as soon as possible.

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What a daft post nomidfield. RVP is left footed so surely he should play left back and Rooney at centre half ;)

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Nomidfield, sarcasm is such an unattractive quality. Truly the lowest form of wit. BELIEVE! :)

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Hoggy

Re your comment about yoyo managers

The aim and the glory is all about winning and playing good football not about having stability of one manager. Chelsea have done very well regularly changing their manager. Stability for stability sake is not good, if it's a top manager and it is earned then fine

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07 Feb 2014 14:07:29
I have no issues with Vidic deciding to leave, he's been great.

What I do have an issue with is the captaincy, currently the only player who I would give it too would be Jones.

I will be utterly disgusted if, as I believe Rooney is made captain.

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Has Rooney let us down this year? Did he not score 16 goals and loads of assists last year?did he not nearly win us the league the year before that, only for our midfield and defence to collapse and let city win it?

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There was a discussion about this last year sometime, Moon, and nothing has happened in the meantime to change my view.

While I've accepted Rooney is an important part of the team just now, after making an effort with his fitness and attitude, I just don't think he should be captain of our club. It's purely a personal view, but I just don't like some of his actions, and I do feel, for reasons Mick outlined below, that giving him this honour would cause more trouble than it's worth.

I'm going to hide from Deeps now.

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Thats presuming rooney will still be here to make captain :) stevie k been away and forgot to answer your question 50-50 mate I could definately get rid of the missus before my season ticket some times :)

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I thought you were still thinking about it :)

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07 Feb 2014 12:46:25
Juventus are very interested in Fernando
Hopefully that will release Vidal and/or
Pogba for us in the summer. nice

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Bfro one hopes so but I think I heard Fernando wants the move to city.

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As I said all along, I will love him at united, he's a free agent at the end of season, so why aren't we making a move?

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07 Feb 2014 12:10:26
This may be an obvious question, but without hope, how many bodies do you think we will actually get in in the summer? We are definitely letting go off Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra. Giggs I think will retire finally, Lindegaard will leave as he is too good to not play, Kagawa and Hernandez aren't happy and will probably go. Nani should of gone at any point in the last 3 years. Not sure if Moyes has any faith in Cleverly so he could be for the chop. Young and Valencia will stay I think as squad players. We could even see Buttner leave which would mean we would have no left backs in the squad at all. that's 8 or 9 players that could leave (discounting Macheda, Amos etc who will never make it). I think we need 4-5 quality additions and then maybe a couple of young potential stars that can be moulded.

Do people have a different vision of where the squad will be trimmed etc in summer?

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The squad will be trimmed I think. We have far too many players which we never use.

I agree we need 5 in the summer.

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10 out and 5 in wouldn't be too far from the truth I don't think, if we can manage to get rid of the likes of Anderson, Nani etc.

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Not sure if all those players that you listed will go but a good number of them will.
I agree with your comment totally that most of those that you listed are just not good enough.
If 8/9 players left/retired and we brought in 4/5 plus elevated Powell, Lingard, M Keane and possibly Zaha to the first team squad then we would be in a better place.
Whoever took over from SAF was going to have to put their own stamp on this team and start a re-build.

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Well I'm always 100% accurate or close to how many players we will sign. I predicted 3 last summer and the same in January :). We need 4 minimum and I mean 4 worldies, a huge ask.

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We need four defenders alone. None of which need to be worldies so to speak, but if Shaw is still a target and achievable, then he will cost a fair bit.

We need one central midfielder for now and a right/left winger. That's six players. IMO the winger and midfielder need to be top notch.

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Fresh, my worry in all that, is that you said young and Valencia will stay. I think young should be second after nani to be given the chop.

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I would be very surprised if we coughed up around 150 mill for 5 quality players, I personally don't see us getting some of the so called nailed on signings other big spending clubs will also be after some of them and to top it off the world cup will make things more difficult.2-3 at the most and 3-4 youngsters promoted.

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John, it's no secret that this summer there will be a significant amount of dough spent and there are a lot of senior players leaving. With Evra, Vidic, Giggs, Ferdinand, Kagawa, Hernandez, Nani & Anderson all highly likely to leave, I see at least five being purchased. But only 2-3 of them being what people will call "stellar" signings. I definitely see £150m+ being spent over the next three windows. With the outgoings there will be a lot of cash saved in wages, and a lot of cash coming into the club in the form of player sales. I think the players could raise in the region of £45m-£50m alone. We will see I guess, but there does look like there's a big overhaul planned even at youth level. The editor has said there will be an 18 month rebuild, many journalists associated with MU say it will be a summer to remember. I just hope we can get the players we want.

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I can definitely see a left back and centre mid coming in, but in all honesty I don't think Moyes will bring in many players. I really think 5 or 6 is what we need but can't see Moyes bringing in more than 3. I reckon a world class centre mid, a consistent left back and it wouldn't surprise me to see Moyes move for Seamus Coleman (dunno why but just have a feeling he will!)

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Syd only when its spent will I ever believe the theiving yanks have plundered there piggy banks

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It won't be their money mate.

But to be fair we have spent half of £150m since September 1st. Just five months. £37m & £27m plus agent fees, signing on fees etc etc. It's probably not far of £70m. If we can spend £70m in two windows (1 summer and 1 winter), I can see £150m spent in three windows (2 summers and 1 winter), especially with the amount of outgoings and given the amount we should recoup in sales. I think it will be a minimum of £150m personally. But it will not be their money. Certainly not.

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27mill of that spend wasted

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John, that £27m could have signed Barkley at the time, now his price has probably risen due to his performances this season.

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07 Feb 2014 11:35:38
Shahram,

Thought I would address the post to you because one of your favourite players has called it a day at United. Vidic is a cracking player for me, absolute legend and I will miss his steely gaze and mountain like presence. He has been an excellent servant for us, if not for the injuries, he would still be the best CB in the world for me. But I must say, I am extremely disappointed at the timing of this. If he had to move on, he could have quietly gone about it in the summer. But with the sticky times that we find ourselves in, he could have timed his announcement better.

But then, my best wishes for the man. We will the miss bad a$$ serb! Just as an afterthought, imagine the amount of vitriol here, if the same announcement was made by "someone else" in the team. I am sure you are getting the drift.

Deeps.

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It could also mean that other clubs now know how desperate we'll be for a CB and add £10m on top of what would already be a substantial fee for a world-class defender.

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Deeps,

I think most people think it probably should be the end of Vidic's time at the club and he has given everything he can. We have looked a better team this season when he has not played and the defence have played a much higher line. This could not have been said in previous years.

Rooney on the other hand has a lot more to give the club and if he left would probably go to a rival club making them stronger. I think that is where the difference is.

He has also made the announcement as he said to stop people going on about his future. There will be no rumours about him now and he can get on with the rest of the season.

Red_Sky

I know we don't often agree and I am sure there will be a little increase in price if we really need a defender, but I think we will not be paying 10 million more, that isn't really how it works.

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RS, tv suggested that Zenit have a €10m offer on the table for Garay. Surely if he is available for just £8m we would have signed him last month? Personally I thought it was double that amount, but I will be pretty p!ssed if it was just £8m and Moyes passed up on the idea.

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GDS

Yeah £10million may be a stretch. But remember when Liverpool were desperate for a CF and had no choice but to sign one, and ended up paying £35million for Andy Carroll?

I'd hope Moyes has enough options on his list to prevent that from happening though.


Syd.

Mentioned this about Garay in my post further down the page. Moyes baffles me.

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Deeps

I will not argue with the fact that the timing of the announcement is not great.

I would have personally liked him to keep it till the ed of the season. The other player you are talking about deeps has had a whole summer an dal most a whole season to dispel the rumors and make his intentions clear and has some history :)

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07 Feb 2014 11:25:30
With Vidic leaving, Rio and Evra likely to go in the summer wouldn't now be the time to play Jones and Evans/Smalling as CB pairing and at times blood Keane to gain some valuable first team experience. However saying that does Moyes rate Keane highly enough and does he seem him having a future at OT.

Certainly this summer will definately be our most intriguing summer in terms of transfers in/out. A lot of experience will be lost.

Finally Fulham this weekend is a big game. Hopefully a confidence winning 4-0/5-0 victory happens. A big win will really boost the morale.

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We have Arsenal the week after that so we could use some confidence going into that game.

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07 Feb 2014 10:17:15
Cheers, Vida, best centre-back we've had in years and a real leader.Best of luck to Nemanja in the future.

Right, so this summer we're losing Vidic, Rio and Evra. I think we may have dropped a gonad here, as it seems we're going to lose Ezequiel Garay to Zenit. I don't know much about Garay, apart from some say he is top-drawer, as good as Mangala.

He's 27 so we would get 4-5yrs of him, for what, £15mill? that's value. But with Zenit seeming to be in there, we NEED to spend big money - Rio, for me, doesn't need replacing. We should draft Michael Keane in to make up the numbers and spend major money on replacing the Vidic and Evra of 3years ago.

Who would you say we should, and more importantly, could, get?

It's going to take about £40million or more to replace them.

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Agree fully on Michael Keane, looks like a great players every time I see him play now, rarely makes mistakes, is strong in the tackle and can play the ball out.

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GDS

I suggested we should give Keane his debut on Sunday and it wasn't met with much enthusiasm. We need to find out if he has it

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07 Feb 2014 10:01:44
I question the timing of vidic's announcement. Could it have waited until the end of the season? Is it another headache for Moyes at the wrong time?

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07 Feb 2014 09:46:02
So Vidic is set to leave alongwith Rio and Evra. This marks an end of an era at Old Trafford. All world class defenders in their prime. Especially Vidic who for me is the second best I have since Maldini. His strength in the air is unmatched. I remember a game against spurs at WHL, as always our midfield was poor, Evra was taken to the cleaners by Lennon. It was Spurs vs Vidic. Every ball coming in the box was cleared, headed out or the players tackled with precision. It was an unreal display. We drew that game. Every game he has played worthy of being United captain.

We are going to lose experience now, no doubt about it. But I think it will be like peeling off a plaster. Short term pain for long term gain. One of Evans or Jones and a new defender is how we should line up next season. Or perhaps Moyes will be even more brave and bring in two?

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I think if Moyes doesn't play Jones at CB, then Jones will end up leaving and I wouldn't blame him to be honest. Jones IMO is the closest thing we have to Vidic. Evans is a decent defender, but Jones who is five years his junior will be one of the best and is already better than Evans. If the club do ever pay what it will take to buy Garay, then I think it has to be Jones and Garay. Jones replacing Vidic and Garay replacing Ferdinand. Evans and Smalling as back-up. It will always be a contest between the four CB's and injuries will mean they will all play regularly anyway, but we need to find another Vidic/Ferdinand pairing and Jones is the closest thing we have to a Vidic.

Out of interest RF, who would you sign at CB this summer?

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@Sydney!

If I were to sign just one then it will have to be Garay. He is experienced and good on the ball. If two, then Mangala as well but he is overpriced.

I don't like Smalling, although he is a good defender he is terrible on the ball and gives it away or hoofs it up the pitch aimlessly far too much for my liking.

I agree about Jones, my only concern is his constant injuries.

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I hope that Michael Keane gets a first team spot next season, not as a starter but as a squad player - he could develop like Evans has. I hope that next season Jones is first choice, he has to be, its his time - if he fails then at least we can say we gave him a fantastic opportunity. He doesn't seem the failing type to me though. We always seem to suffer injuries at centre back, we need 5 at the club at any one time. With Jones, Smalling, Evans and Keane we have 4 - but we need one extra that's a starter. I would personally have Hummels, but would be very happy with Rami, Garay or Mangala. I certainly hope that we don't go for Ranocchia as he is widely regarded as an awful player in Italy.

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I think Jones would be less prone to injury when playing as a CB. He will not be as reckless as he is in midfield and wouldn't need to worry about going into as many 50/50 challenges like he does in midfield. Jones and Garay on paper would be a good pairing, Garay's finesse and composure on the ball and Jones no nonsense getting stuck in. Plus Jones isn't too shabby on the ball for a defender either. We need defender that will push up and Jones and Garay will both do that.

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I'm not a massive fan of garay, subotic or hummels for me

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I don't know Syd, I think Jones is on his way to being the new Kevin Moran. I'm amazed that nobody has stepped in to tell him that he can't just keep throwing his body into challenges. I accept that he's a young lad, but there's no point being a fearless warrior if it means you spend half the year in the treatment room.

Do you still think we have a chance at Garay? It seems that we could have signed him last month but stalled on the price. Not sure if that means the club are now looking elsewhere.

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Danny, I'm not sure, perhaps our interest has waned? But the club have been interested for a while now and he wants the MU move. I'm not that clued up on Garay, I haven't seen him much. I like the look of both Hummels and Subotic like jred said, but I think they would cost significantly more.

On Jones, I would like to think he would have a bit more composure as a CB. We will see I guess.

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07 Feb 2014 09:23:00
If David Moyes doesn't play RVP, Rooney, Mata and Janujaz on Sunday against Fulham at home there is truly no hope for the man.
Sunday is a perfect opportunity to get 4-5 goals in the bag and build some confidence for next week's big game against Arsenal.
Carrick and Fellaini in central midfield, Janujaz right, Mata Left and Rooney just behind RVP.

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Simmo, I couldn't agree more. The team really picks itself this weekend.

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Completely agree. We need to play our strongest 11.

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Due to Januzaj's superior pace and trickery, I see him lining up on the left. He is better than Mata at getting to the byline and crossing, and Mata has a better vision and is more creative with his passing, therefore playing on the right where he could cut in and create chances.

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Agree up front but I'd play Fletcher for sure before Carrick or Fellaini.

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I agree Mick. Januzaj left, Mata right makes sense. Have them constantly swapping anyway with Rooney also and keep RVP where he is best - in the box.

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Totally agree with your selection. We need a settled side so that we can start building a style of play and team ethic. The players that Moyes knows are leaving in the summer should only really be used as back-up to those which he intends/wishes to keep.
We are out of almost everything so the idea of resting players now is complete nonsense.

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So Fellaini is not available but Jones could make it. A good opportunity to try out a Jones and Evans central defense? Both good on the ball and will bring out the ball well.

Cleverley and Carrick in midfield with the mentioned front 4 and we look a very good side on the attack.

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Fellaini is injured again.

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I think Fletcher will play RF.

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REDFAITH

You would put Cleverley in the team after that performance last week.
He get's worse every game.
Simply not good enough, he's the last person we won't in the midfield.
Carrick, Fellaini or Fletcher.

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Simmo

Fletcher would be a good choice. I am not a cleverley fanboy, and haven't yet seen what he does apart from just keeping possession.

He is a squad player. We need better than Cleverley and Fletcher, and I would prefer Fellaini.

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07 Feb 2014 09:21:25
Vidic our leader and voice on the pitch going, sad really I know he's not physically what he was but il miss him a warrior. Eds maybe Anderson was right?

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Lets hope so, the players that it appears Anderson suggested all need to leave this summer anyway.

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07 Feb 2014 07:43:35
With Nemanja Vidic leaving the club in the summer, who do you think will be named captain?
I think Darren Fletcher should become the captain as he has been at the club for quite long, is an inspiring figure, has that never-say-die attitude, and it it feels like he genuinely cares for the club. The only problem with him is the amount of games he will get with our supposed targets coming in, his illness and his advancing age.

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Rooney ;)

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07 Feb 2014 07:38:52
So vidic is leaving then!

Top defender but probably is coming to the end if his better days!

Great servant and I will truly miss him!

I hope that we can turn things around, I do feel as we can get better.

Im struggling to see what moyes is bringing to the team at the minute there not his players and I feel we lack energy all over the pitch!
Everton were such an energetic team under moyes, I know we shouldn't really compare but I really do feel his system that he is trying to implement into Manchester United you need an energetic team to be successful with it .

If we lose against Fulham we will know we are in a real mess.

Enjoy guys

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07 Feb 2014 06:46:59
Just read that vidic is leaving the season. Saddened to say the least but with the changes at the club fairly inevitable. Truly world class defender who lit up the premier league with his fearless tackles and leadership. When anyone names our best ever players, 'charlton, best, cantona, Ronaldo' etc are mentioned but I truly believe vidic is way up there with the best. I hope he makes the most of the rest of his career.

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07 Feb 2014 04:28:07
With vidic leaving in the summer, if rooney doesn't sign a contract and also departs, who do you see being our new captain? Ideally it would be somebody who plays in most of the games but I'm struggling to think of who would get it

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07 Feb 2014 01:08:26
JRed I too had just finished watching Rush, quality film. Long day today.

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07 Feb 2014 00:45:45
Wow, even though it's been heavily speculated about it's still somewhat of a shock to see Vidic verbally confirm he'll be leaving in the summer. Absolutely immense defender for us over the years, and I personally would have liked him to stay another season at least even though his best years may be behind him. Any thoughts on possible centre backs arriving in the summer?

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07 Feb 2014 00:11:24
So Vidic is off. Good luck Nemanja an absolute legend at Old Trafford is leaving. My favourite two centre backs of the last 25 years - Vidic and Bruce. Yours?

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Yeah, would agree with that.

Though I always liked Pallister as well, if only because he always looked absolutely buggered after 10 minutes - I can relate to that.

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Still my favorite player in the current team. Just a warrior and gets on with it and no fussing about.I would hope we can renew him for another year and IMO a long way from being finished and still a top CB.

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Just read he has confirmed it. Sad and a great servant for the club. Assuming he is moving to Italy, it will suit him very well and he will still be great for that league.

We might be underestimating the extent of change because for me he was still good enough for another season.

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Sad to see him leave but I think stam and rio have been our best centre backs under fergie

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Japp Stam for me, makes Vidic look girly in comparison

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Rio and Stam

I felt 12 months ago that Vidic had lost pace after his knee issues, however by our managers quotes he wanted to keep him.''He’s not old. He is a really top centre-half. He’s the best I have ever worked with, that’s for sure.'
We are losing experience of Vidic and Rio together and that is not well planned. If Moyes wanted to keep him why is he leaving? We may have to wait for summer to find out but a new centre half is now a must.

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Big Jaap Stam. No question.

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Can I pick 3 please?
Vidic a legend and a warrior
Stam who just scared the sh*ep out of forwards before they'd even stepped onto the pitch
Bruce whose two injury time goals against Wednesday made everything else that followed possible

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I wouldn't be surprised to see us sign an experienced CB like Garay and a young CB with potential. I also see us promoting Keane after he has had a year at a Premier League club.

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@Red Man

I agree we will miss the experience, but this needed to be done sooner rather than later.

I think you agree that our problems stem from the slow defense sitting too deep inviting pressure.

I think Garay could provide a calm experienced head in there if bought.

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And no one has mentioned rio who for a couple of years was thee best cb in the world IMO.
Stam and rio in the middle for me with pallister, Bruce, vidic and Ronnie Johnson also deserves a mention. Best man marker we had.

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Red Man, what CB would you sign? I haven't seen much of Garay, but the club seem very interested in him, although he seems more of a Ferdinand CB to me from the little amount I have seen of him. I think we have Jones as Vidic's replacement, but I think we will need a young up and coming CB to rival Michael Keane.

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Sydney

Difficult as I haven't seen the ones people are raving at. Who would I like well I liked what I saw of Pique when he was with us but he will likely be unobtainable

I wonder if Varane could be prised away?
Big decision because we are losing a lot of experience across the back. Jones needs to be given a chance but who plays with him?

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