Manchester United Banter Archive May 07 2013

07 May 2013 23:43:50
Am watching rerun of utd v juve second leg og semi final champions league. Our team then would murder our present one. Juve had davids and zidane in yet our midfield was stronger with keano scholes and becks abky assisted by butt. We need at least two top midfielders now plus a left back the class of dennis irwin

07 May 2013 23:32:55
Just my thoughts on this SAF retirement story.

When he goes he will announce it when we have either finished the season or have nothing left to play for i. e. now. I think he would like to do it before our last home game so that he can say a proper goodbye to the fans which will this season coincide with the trophy celebration which would be perfect for him. After the Real game he was absolutely distraught, maybe he knew it was his last chance and it had been taken from him in such cruel circumstances.

Mourinho had been hugely linked with Chelsea and SAF added to these rumours. Last week it was reported that Ronaldo was unhappy with Mourinho, could it be that all 3 are distancing themselves from something that has been agreed in private without anyone but the hierarchy knowing?

Maybe, maybe not, we shall see.

Brendan81

I had the same thought this morning - that giving an annoucement now he can can a farewell in the last home game of the season - I always feared the day fergie would finally retire, is it today?

Mourinho has all be signed a deal with chelsea - the team that loves him - it would be a laugh if he in fact signed for us lol

07 May 2013 23:28:46
If Moyes is the next manager then we need to boycott because that would be a huge disaster. {Ed002's Note - Perhaps some sort of fire at the ground to get your point across? A "Moyes Out" campaign on Facebook? Idiot.}

Moyes would be the wrong choice. He's done nothing with Everton in recent years. Taking a 8-9 place team up to 7th place isn't really impressive, and his complete lack of experience against top european clubs makes he hope he's not the choice. Not sure what a boycott would do once he's announced, other than turn us into Chelsea/Liverpool who are constantly in a fight between the club and the fans. Moyes is the absolute wrong choice, but if he's hired, complain and then move on. Boycotting won't help the club.

What would you suggest ed? we just sit there like good little children and accept the rubbish that we could be given?

I know you're a Chelsea fan so managerial changes doesn't bother you because you're used to it but when you have to replace the best manager then you have to replace him with the best possible and Moyes isn't even in the top 10.

I know it's all rumours at the minute and probably won't come to nothing but I would be very worried if it did happen. {Ed002's Note - If you want to boycott the club you may as well go and find another club to support. You are obviously not that keen on Manchester United.}

07 May 2013 23:13:49
Fergie has always said he will be in the job until his health does not allow him to be so anymore. With the impending Hip Operation, maybe this is a health scenario which would alter his ability to be manager of the club. Managing a club on a daily basis is sure to require a large amount of manoeuvrability, something of which a Hip operation would most likely affect.


Hope not, but with all the rumours doing the rounds it just makes you think.

If that's the case we need to build him a professor x type hover chair.

rddu

07 May 2013 22:57:16
Just on the moyes rumour this is what fergy said in January about who may succeed him

"It's very difficult as names have been bandied about and football is precarious, You could be talking about one of the potentially exciting young managers - is he going to be here in two years?

"I think top managers will always be in demand - Guardiola, Mourinho, David Moyes, there are a lot of successful managers out there and I don't know what their plans are"

Guardiola fair enough mourhino yer ok successful moyes, really, does this say something about fergys mind set
Jred

Ill be seriously pissed off if it's Moyes

07 May 2013 23:17:16
Moyes would be an aweful choice atm. Personally I think he should go abroad and manage maybe in Germany for a couple of years.

Probably reading to much in to it but strange to mention moyes in the same breath as mourhino and guardiola
Jred

07 May 2013 22:48:26
Uncertainty surrounding Fergie's future. Maybe Moyes being considered for manager, not assistant as posted yesterday

noname

07 May 2013 22:38:40
independant reporting saf to announce retirement by the end of the week. tomorrows paper.

jack

07 May 2013 22:09:01
Hi Ed. I know you're going to get an inundation of these now but stories breaking that SAF may leave after this season. Can you shed any light on this?

Cheers,
Rudderpost {Ed002's Note - Nope.}

Everybody expects fergy to go next year or the year after but after what happened last time I think he will try to surprise everyone which is why I have always thought he will leave this year
Jred

When he goes he will just go so it could be anytime. Mourinho/Ronaldo anyone? Probably not but we'll see.

Brendan81

07 May 2013 21:22:16
Tottenham won't let Bale to go this summer. They want to reject any bids, just like Chelsea mega bids for modric, in last years. But maybe next year thay agree a deal with a spanish clup, not a PL club.

07 May 2013 20:33:01
i know bookies odds are usually a pretty good indicator as to what is going on in the game but I am not so sure in this case, yes Moyes is a very good manager, and one of the few (experienced) managers who would be willing to act as a no. 2 till SAF retires.

but for me, I think it will be Klopp, afterall SAF was achieving things in scotland when Big Ron became manager, and he (SAF) wasn't even considered. it was SAF's ventures into europe and his youth policy that got him the united job, and I think the same could be said for Klopp with Dortmund.
sadly the same cannot really be said for Moyes, however, I think he would make a great no. 2 and may come even if to attract a bigger job if Klopp were still to come when SAF retires (lets face it Klopp may not want to leave that team just yet)

Dags

You say that Klopp may not want to leave that team just yet, however Gotze has just been sold, Lewandowski will almost certainly go this summer and several other players such as Reus and Gundogen may become unsettled. Klopp has taken them to the peak this seasn of the Champions League final, his stock has never been higher. I could argue that to show he has SAFs qualities he would need to stay and build another side like this seasons however it may well be time for him to move before he has to rebuild.

I have noted that SAF has not been as lively on the bench this season especially since the Madrid game and when we were playing so poorly against Chelsea he wasn't out there cajoling.

I have always been a Mourinho advocate but Klopp has made a compelling case not just for his style in football but the way he handles himself and particularly his work bringing youth football forward. I read a very interesting article a few weeks ago on one of his youth coaches, a British guy who had been there for years and how they structured things. Our youth is a vital part of the United story and Klopp may bring something new to it.

Finally the next manager needs to have the confidence of the supporters or will face an immediate uphill task before we can move forward, Moyes or Blanc have no chance in my opinion of doing that but Mourinho or Klopp, both who could move this summer, would likely have the confidence of the support.

I wouldn't rule anything out at this point

Red Man

Fergie is getting a hip replacement some time over the summer so that's probably why he hasn't been as lively on the side line lately.

Since when have bookies odds been a good indicator. On 4 occasions in the last two years we have been 1/7 to sign Wesley sneijder, and I don't see him playing in our midfield. How many extra people do you think have backed David moyes just because the bookies told them to by dropping the odds?

Bookies know what they are doing, they do not have any inside knowledge. {Ed002's Note - What are the odds on Wesley Sneijder s player-manager?}

07 May 2013 17:55:02
To all the utd fans saying moyes hasn't won enough trophies to become utds manager how many had saf won before he joined? Never forget your roots

07 May 2013 18:05:02
er fergie had won plenty with aberdeen breaking the celtic/ rangers monopoly in scotland and winning the cup winners cup beating a certain real madrid. Bit better than moyes. Try reading a book.

A damn sight more than Moyes!

That is a joke yeh? Spl titles, Euro cups, Scottish cup etc!
Do ure research b4 posting drivel

He had won 11 trophies before he joined Manchester United where David Moyes has one one?

Do you research before posting!

Walrus!

REALLY. do you not know what he did with St Mirren & then Aberdeen?

*Won one, sorry my bad!

Walrus

He broke Celtic rangers monopoly starting from nothing. So please check before posting inaccurate info.
Moyes is a super manager and has done a great job at Everton. But we are not Everton, we need someone with European experience to fill saf boots. Moyes will be totally out of his depth at united.
As I've said before pep or klopp would be perfect, now that pep has decided to join Bayern, then the only natural successor will be klopp. He plays the game the united way, he likes playing youngsters in the team, and he has a fantastic relationship with the players and the fans. Does that remind you of anyone?
Nomidfield

Funny how everyone seems to be negative about Moyes, yet apparently, and I stress apparently, he's Fergies choice to succeed, but then again, what does he know about football compared to you lot? WSAG

Appointing Moyes should send a frightening shudder through every United fan. It basically indicates a lack of ambition because it would be someone who doesn't know how to win the cups and championships that SAF has succeeded so many times at, including many before he arrived here. The message appointing Moyes sends out is that mediocrity and challenging for 3rd will be the aim, because after all that's all we could expect of a manager with his CV. The other worry would be that this is because he can operate on the tightest budget and won't ask or expect for too much money out of the pot.

Moyes would be a game changer for me, the point which indicates a change towards the ordinary. I endured the Frank OFarrell and later the Dave Sexton years (RIP) and we must not be given another ordinary but good football man.

Supporters of our main challengers are all saying our fall will come when SAF retires, well neither Moyes nor Blanc give me any confidence whatsoever that they will not be right.

Red Man

Oh yeah, and when sir Matt retired, we chose wild McGuiness and look what happened then. saf might have a say but hopefully there will be other people involved in the final decision.
Saf is an excellent judge of course, but he is far from being perfect and I think it takes more than one person to decide who will be manager.
Saf is very loyal to his friends and one of them is Moyes, but hopefully he will not let that cloud his judgment. As Moyes is not the manager for united.
Nomidfield

07 May 2013 22:06:33
Red Man agreed it would show a lack of ambition. I'd be uneasy. Especially on the budget point at a time when the debt is reducing.

Red man, totally agree. Whenever any of the jealous friends telling me that united will be finished when saf retires, I always tell them that saf will ensure that his successor will be carefully chosen to ensure continuity.
However, if we choose Moyes that that will scare the hell out of me and will prove all these people right.
I hope the rumors are wrong and that klopp will be allowed to take over, and hopefully saf will be thinking along the same lines.
Nomidfield

Nomidfield

Have a read of an article in the mail on 31 March about a Dortmund youth coach Gary Gordon and it is interesting in his comments about Klopp.

'Klopp is a modern coach, a housewife’s favourite, smart, ” says Gordon. “He has a young team, good people behind him and has his own dynamic. The team is hungry, very hungry. He’s got that fire, that flame, that’s what you see on the sidelines. He’s very popular. He’s got something. '

Note the words hungry and fire

Red Man

IF fergy is leaving this year and we go for moyes and not mourhino I will be gutted
Jred

07 May 2013 17:15:51
With possibly 3 CMs departing this summer, (Ando, Scholes, Fletch) I think that Fergie may resort to having to play Jones there next season along with Cleverley and Carrick. However 3 isn't enough and I have a hunch that rather than shelling out millions he may just go for Lampard as the 4th.

Rooney will drop back to midfield (unfortunately) so with jones, carrick and clev you will have 4 and back up coming from the youth, also anderson may not get sold (either for this reason or simply lack of buyers) so 1 midfielder coming in, most likely being strootman, would be more than sufficient

07 May 2013 14:14:09
I think we all want Ronaldo back but I think it would make more sence to see Gareth Bale join the reds, he's younger and would likely be half the price? If spurs miss out on the top 4 then Fergie will surley be straight in there?

I have to agree.
I love Ronaldo but by the start of next season he will be nearly 29 years old. It's crazy to pay 60-80 million for somebody of that age no matter who they are.
Bale would be perfect for us playing on the left drifting in. He's only 23 years old and I think at United could really improve him and he will become one of the best players in the world
I would love to see Bale and a central midfielder which i'm hoping will be Strootman.

Simmo

Half the price?! He will probably be more expensive if Levy has anything to do with it, especially to us. He would probably accept £50 million from Madrid, but would add another £20 million on top of that for us. Look at the Berbatov & Modric farces of the past.

I know it's crazy to spend that money on a 29 year old but he shows no sign of decline. If and when Bale loses his speed he has nothing whereas with Ronaldo he will still be a world beater into his early 30's

This bale rumour has got to stop! Levy will not sell to us, unless he has a buy out clause in his contract if spurs dnt make CL football he won't join. Eds can any of u confirm if such a clause exists in bales contract {Ed002's Note - It won't exist.}

Fresh I agree with your formation. We will have to switch to a more fluid 4-3-3 but I am confident we won't be signing Ronaldo. Its not sir Alex policy to get back a top player he has sold. He moves on. The team moves on. He is building a team to outlast him and Ronaldo won't really outlast Ferguson. As I have said, my money is on Bale like Simmo, specially if they don't qualify (look at how relaxed we played against Arsenal and Chelsea). Everything else I think you have gotten right.

Thanks ed I thought so too

He has said many times that the only player he would resign is Ronaldo. Its on the cards.

07 May 2013 13:26:39
i play football with a lad that claims to be good friends with wes brown (seen pics of them together on a nyt out so maybe he is) anyway, he says that for the last couple of months kagawa has been used as a central midfielder in training almost daily. added to this most afternoons kagawa has had a regime in the gym. he believes that before buying a creative midfielder kagawa may be given chance pre season to become that playmaker we crave. I come on the site almost daily so thought i'd pass on what iv heard
thanks
paul {Ed004's Note - Hopefully not I'm sure I'm not the only one who worries when Kagawa picks the ball out deep sometimes he has given it away too easily a few times this season when dropping deep. It's almost as if he is too forward thinking for the role. Also doesn't offer a physical presence IMO}}

Wes brown still hanging around his old club that's a strange one. Why even if your pal is pals wit wes brown would he know wats going on at the club it makes no sense.

CAIN

Your pal is having u on mate

Cain

how is a manchester lad hanging around manchester strange? wes was with the club most of his pro career, obviously he would still have friends within the club.

Really hope not as if its true then once again we buy a player with the potential to be world class in his preferred position and then try to change them into something else we did this with Anderson and look how that's worked out why can't we just buy the right player for the position we want instead of trying to change someone to fit
onecut

Cain u div think about wot uv just said. so because wes brown has left united he no longer speaks to his mates he trained with everyday. maybe that's how he knows

I think because scholes is so good at it people have become too focused on this deep lying play maker role, kagawa could still be a play maker for us whilst playing further forward, esp if has the likes of carrick, rooney, jones or maybe strootman behind him. then his physicality is not as important but means he's in the right area to provide that killer pass to release the striker or set up a cross for a winger

07 May 2013 11:07:24
Vidic has come and said we should be looking to Bayern and Dortmund as the future in how we play. He made a special mention to the way they close the opponents high up the field.
We have been saying this for a year now, so do we think saf will change the style of play? Or do we think he will continue the two wingers tactic which leaves us wide open to counterattacks?
Of course, if we go the Bayern/Dortmund route, we better start buying some high energy/creative midfielders to doing the job.
Interesting to hear everyone's views as up till now, no united player has spoken publically about our tactics,
Nomidfield {Ed004's Note - Personally I agree with Vidic though if we want to play further up the pitch I think we need atleast one fast centre back to cover for Vidic's lack of pace. I reckon Smalling is quick enough to cover for Vidic and Rafael doesn't lack pace but it may leave Evra exposed and I can't see it suiting Baines as he isn't the quickest either. Up top I reckon RVP is a better striker than Lewandowski atm and Kagawa is brilliant playing in a high tempo game but we need two better wingers and a more combatative midfielder beside Carrick. So I reckon we could easily implement the system if we signed a left back, Strootman, Rodriguez/Lamela and Gotze(No Chance)/Sanchez/Reus and then played Kagawa centrally. You still have Valencia, Zaha and Welbeck as wingers who offer width and I'd sell Nani and Young}

Vidic is bang on but the problem is that he is part of the reason we defend so deep. Him and Rio lack the pace they once had and none of our midfield are good enough defensively to compensate (I'm not counting Jones as a midfielder). Once we strengthen the midfield and are able to keep possession more effectively in the final 2 thirds, we will be less susceptible to counter attacks and, as Ed004 says a pacey CB would do us the world of good.

TK-Red {Ed004's Note - Could that be why Ferguson has been looking at Garay and Ogbonna I know the latter is quick not sure about Garay.}

I think strootman lacks pace which is why I'm not so sure about a strootman Carrick partnership
Jred {Ed004's Note - I was thinking that as well Jred but look at Schweinsteiger and Martinez both are very slow players but currently they are the best midfield partnership in the world imo. I reckon Strootman and Carrick wouldn't be as good as them but they would be better than the other midfields in Europe bar possibly Dortmunds and City's depending on if they sign someone to partner Yaya. Also Barcelona's as well}

Neither Subotic or Hummels are fast, not too sure about Garay, don't think he is from what I've seen, could be wrong. {Ed004's Note - However, both are quicker than Vidic and Rio, also both full backs are very quick and Santana is very quick.}

I never thought as Schmelzer as fast, just a good defender. Smalling, Jones and Evans are all more than fast enough to play that system with Vidic though, we just need a pacey full back who can defend and attack, there isn't too many out there, suggestions? {Ed004's Note - Is Baines quick enough? I know Schmelzer isn't the quickest but Hummels is quicker than Vidic and Vidic plays Left centre back usually. Unless you swap him and play him right centre back with Smalling playing on the left but that could get confusing}

I wouldn't say Baines is any slower than Evra difference is Baines actually defends, but I see what you're getting at with Vidic playing left he would need more cover. I honestly can't think of anyone who we could sign for left back, the only players I can think of aren't obtainable like Lahm. Do you know the availability of Coentrao? {Ed004's Note - I don't unfortunately. Alex Sandro from Porto not seen much of him, seems very good going forward but just like Evra defensively though he is younger and quicker}

I think sergio Ramos is good option he faster than what we have {Ed004's Note - Wouldn't want him here. The man is a liability and would cost a fortune. Not sure he would suit the physicality of the premiership as I could see him losing the head a lot easier over here}

I've heard good things about Alex Sandro, with him being young we can make him a better defender and he will pick it up naturally anyway if he is a gifted player, ah well only time will tell. And to the guy who just posted about Sergio Ramos, hell no, he is quite possibly one of the most overrated centre backs of the decade, at right back he got away with it as he was dealing with less ariel threats and less challenges, put him in the middle and all his weaknesses get exposed. Just imagine him playing against clubs in the premier league like Stoke who will get under his skin and force him into getting sent off, he allows himself to get played far too easy and gets drawn into all the drama far too easy. Had more red cards than any other Madrid player ever and he's only 26 isn't he?

Garay is not the quickest but his positioning is great. He is a bit like a younger, less good Rio Ferdinand. He lacks Rio's sheer pace and strength, but he is great on the ball. Personally I wouldn't want him here.

I also think Vidic is not the most suited to play high up the pitch. Not just because his lack of pace but also because he is not the best on the ball. But he is still our best defender, possibly one of the best in the world when fit. Unfortunatly, I don't see the combination of Rio and Vidic as one that would work, especially with Evra. We'd have 3 slow defenders and we would have to maintain a deep defense line.

But Evans, Smalling and Jones are more than capable of partnering, or even replacing Vidic and Ferdinand in the next year or so. The only problem is Evra, as he has evolved from the best fullback in the world to a defensive liability. Buttner looks like a great crosser and dribbler, he also has bags of pace. Defensivly he is not the most confortable but that can improve with time and experience. That is the reason he has not played much this season imo. Whenever he played he was good and could have played more, but I suspect he has been doing a lot of work with the coaches behind the scenes to improve his defensive abilities. Fergy might really be seeing him as a succesor to Evra.
If thinhs don't work out for Buttner there's always Alex Sandro we can go for, and Fabio could be used in a player+ cash exchange.

Mick {Ed004's Note - I'd like to see Buttner play the rest of the league games this year and it is a shame that it was Rafael sent off and not Evra tbh haha. However, I'm not sure Buttner would be ready for next season and I agree with you about Garay but I disagreed to an extent about Vidic. I agree he is no Hummels, Pique etc who can run and pass the ball out our of defence but he isn't the worst on the ball he is calm and composed and I rarely see him lose possession. I think Vidic has to start as his leadership and aerial dominance is badly missed when he doesn't}

ED004, I'm guessing Buttner has been signed primarily as cover and unless something happens he won't be a 1st team player?

What about Fabio? How is he progressing at QPR? I had always heard that when we signed the twins, Fabio was the better and only injury held him back. Any chance of him coming back?

RedDub {Ed004's Note - I reckon Fabio will come back but I don't think we should or anyone should expect him to come back and solve our defensive problems on the left hand side as if he isn't starting frequently for QPR then I don't think he will start on a regular basis here. You are correct in that Fabio was always the higher rated of the two brothers however, he has been hit with a lot more injuries and while Rafael was trying to break through he was up against a declining Neville, Fabio was up against one of the best full backs in the game at the time. Now personally, I'd take Fabio back and use him as cover for Rafael at right back. A bit of brotherly competition and a few years back Fabio played right back vs Barcelona in the champions league and if my memory serves me right he played very well there that day. Now I would sell Evra this summer and sign an experienced left back in Baines and then he will help with the development of not just Buttner but Blacketts and hopefully the twins as well}

My views is that we must try to see what Bayern and Dortmund are doing and try to copy and improve on them.
For that we need at least two young, athletic, fast midfielders who can pass and break up play when not in possession. If you watch the German teams and barca, they don't go in for big tackles, they just crowd the man in possession. But you have to be fit and young to do that (is not Anderson)!
Re the defensive areas, I think the biggest problem will be evra, as he is always caught out of position and generally does not tend to track back quickly enough. So two midfielders, a left back, and a winger will be great.
Fergie, over to you!
Nomidfield

I'd like to see a back 4 of Rafael, Evans, Vidic, Baines next season, with Evra being sold.

I think that would be a solid back 4 but with enough pace to play higher up the pitch. I'd have Jones as cover for Vidic and Smalling/Rio as cover for Evans - Jones will get a few games in midfield too. Fabio to cover Rafael and Buttner to cover Baines.

Unfortunately I doubt we will sign Baines which makes my plan a bit pointless, lol, but that's what I'd like to see and it wouldn't cost much (sell Evra, buy Baines).

Hopefully so Ed004, as I feel we need to start playing much further up the pitch. Strootman's lack of pace isn't as much of an issue as he can dominate the midfield physically. A lack of pace at the back only bites us on the arse when we continue to be bullied out of possession, something that Strootman would go someway to solving. I'm not entirely sure about the Strootman/Carrick combination either Jred. Perhaps the presence of Strootman will allow Cleverley to get forward and play his natural game? Or perhaps Strootman and Carrick will provide a platform for Kagawa to perform?

TK-Red

07 May 2013 08:50:12
Morning all, hope all enjoyed the bank holiday WE.
Eds I know talking about the money side of things isn't really your favourite discussion point, but with Lewandowski entering the last year of his contract but taking into account his form this season, is it realistic to thick that a bid of around the £24 million mark is what will be required or is this figure to high/low.
Thanks as always,
Paul {Ed002's Note - It is an arbitary figure.}

Ed002 .............. {Ed002's Note - You foul little cocs*cker. The reason not explaining if because dumbf*cks like you aren't bright enough to understand.}

Ed002- why you ..... {Ed002's Note - Because you are an ignorant trolling piece of rubbish and an embarrassment to the club and supporters.}

07 May 2013 10:01:33
Does anyone know when the transfer season actually opens?

I think you can do transfers on June 1st but it's not till 1st July is when the players move clubs.
(is that right?)

07 May 2013 07:21:20
If we are to get two midfielders and Strootman is a cert (I said if) I would love to see one from:

Fabergas
Cabaye
Modric

They would be ideal to link up play with Ronaldo RVP and Bale - ha!

Dream the impossible dream.

Pedro

Could be Marchisio from Juventas.

07 May 2013 03:51:57
To anyone out there What are the chances of buying Elliot Kebbie this summer? I've herd mixed reports