Manchester United Banter Archive October 07 2012

 

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07 Oct 2012 23:45:38
G.A.G.U.S wellbeck Ashley young Rooney & van nistleroy I'm sure other divers are at other clubs as well eh?

Believable0 Unbelievable6

07 Oct 2012 22:59:06
Does anyone think that SAF is changing the system to suit he new manager and ease the transition? He always plays with wingers - even at Aberdeen!
The new system is more solid and more like Real Madrid & Barcelona.....
Also Rooney in midfield could dominate games - in a different way to Keano - but dominate the game - he is much better on the ball than waiting for it to be delivered where he gets frustrated- only one ame and time will tell.....
Pedroknight

Believable4 Unbelievable4

07 Oct 2012 22:52:11
OMG just watching MOTD and just seen Monkey boy make the biggest dive ever!!

Sorry about this not be anything to do with United

James

Believable6 Unbelievable1

Wait till you see Suarez's.

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07 Oct 2012 22:30:45
I think Wellbeck should not be starting in our team atm. I would prefer to see kagawa up front and see valancia on the right wing.

James

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Your not understanding what the diamond is for then are you... Welbeck was in the team to stretch the defence, with Welbecks pace upfront it made it difficult for the Newcastle defence to push further forward and tighten the space in the midfield battle. Also the actual diamond was narrow, Kagawa and Cleverley were either side but they tooked into make it a narrow midfield, Valencia would never do this. If anything this season with this formation and shape Valencia would end up playing right back

RedKnight

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07 Oct 2012 22:01:29
I am so angry at Tony Pullis and those nasty boys from Stoke. They have obviously not been reading these pages. Do they not know they were playing liverpool today the best team in the world. Did they not know that liverpool beat Norwich last week and that means you are brilliant. If I was Blaire or LFC i would write a strongly worded letter of complaint to Stoke FC. They obviously don't know as much about football as you 2. I bet they are the kind of horrible boys who think that Suarez is a diving injury feigning cheat. I can't understand it, it's as if everyone is just treating Blaire as a know nothing Bull sh*tter. I AM KLOOT

Believable20 Unbelievable1

Well said kloot, but you forgot about your newcastle game, now all is well again, you are going to win the league, and of course the cl.
love man u, love the glazers even more!

B O H

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My thoughts exactly mate, but couldn't articulate it as well as you just did :)

StevieK

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Im a liverpool fan and hate to see diving. yes it was a dive by suarez today but for a utd fan to comment like that is just comical. you could very nearly make a a whole team of utd players who dived a number of times just from the last few years. wasnt it a dive that won you the points at anfield only a couple of weeks ago. thers also nani evra rooney ronaldo the list goes on. by far the worst diver i have seen in the pl has to go to ashley young. even fergie came out and said he has to stop doing it every game. face it the games full of cheats but only certain players get picked out. like theres no mention from you that today we might as well have played a rugby team suarez got studded in the chest and the 2 clear penalties we have been denied in the last 2 weeks. but by far the worst about your comment is you got a good result today and played your best football for a long time and all you can talk about is liverpools suarez

gaz

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There is a difference between going down easily and diving..
I think only Ashley Young dived for those matches last season. But Sir Alex came out and said that he should not be doing it.
But in Suarez case, I don't think liverpool manager has the courage to admit it

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It's difficult for BR to criticise Liverpool's only decent player. Begging Suarez to stay and then criticising him three months later for diving would not go down well. They are lucky to have him in the first place as he should be playing for a big club.

Sydney!

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Fergie wouldnt go on about a player who dives sometimes hes had so many over the years. he made the comment about young cos at 1 point he was doing it twice a game every game and he knew the refs would stop giving his pens and free kicks even if it was clear cut. he didnt want that to happen in a big game. sydney i didnt have you down as clueless as the rest of them on here but your post proves me wrong. a few bad seasons doesnt mean were no longer a big club. we all know we have been poor over the last 3 years but were still 1 of the biggest clubs in the world.

gaz

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In what way are Liverpool still a big club in your opinion? History? Fanbase? What else makes Liverpool a big club? Sure Liverpool are still a big club so to speak, but there are many that are bigger and many on par with Liverpool that have more pulling power. Most Liverpool fans realise that Suarez is a level above Liverpool's level. Every summer is going to be a worry for the fans that he could be sold. Luckily for you he wasn't a certain club's first choice this summer and clubs like RM and Barcelona are not interested in him, but the better he plays for you the more chance PSG or someone will want him in the future.

Sydney!

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The main pulling power now is sadly money so if it was that and current form does that make city bigger than utd. not a chance. liverpool are the most succesful english team in europe the second in league titles. we have 1 of the biggest fan bases in the world. utd v liverpool is the most watched pl game in the world cos its the 2 biggest pl teams. theres always a chance top players will always leave. its the same with how you lost ronaldo and pogba. if rooney got offered 50k a week more how do you know he wouldnt go

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But can't you see you've been trading on the past glories sthick for years? And you're leaving out the one thing that makes a club a big club, on-field success. In the last two decades Liverpool have been on a downward spiral in terms actual results. And this is in-spite of massive investment in your team, so don't go talking about poor old liverpool, Arsenal have done far better on far less during the same period.

At best Liverpool have been a good cup team, and the champions league win is the high point of this. But year after year Liverpool have failed to do the business week-in, week-out in the league. The last few seasons have seen Liverpool become a mid-table team. That's the truth. That's why your biggest victory last season was United not winning the league, and that's why your fans constantly clog up the United page. You have become cheerleaders for the big clubs, because you are simply no longer a big club in your own right. Maybe you can haul yourselves back to the big time, but that's a long way off. For the time being the only thing big about LFC is the chip on its shoulder.

Danny Pughnited

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So like I said, history and your fanbase is all you have.

Sydney!

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Danny you need to actually read what your postin thats a stupid post. current on field success shows who has the better team at the moment not who is the bigger club. from what you say city and chelsea are the biggest clubs in england followed by liverpool who won somethin last year or are you gonna change it now to whos won the most over last 20 years when most utd fans think football started.

gaz

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That's the problem with your club gaz, big clubs know that you're only as big as your last season because big clubs are the clubs who aren't happy unless they're winning. Small clubs are comfortable with defeat. It's not the last twenty years that counts, the only thing that matters is where you finish at the end of the year and how you're going to improve on that in a year's time. The big clubs are the ones who are battling it out for the title every year, not the ones who are happy with a mid-table finish, and a decent cup run.

This is why liverpool are no longer a big club, because they think that past glories will always be enough. Big clubs live in the present because that's the only way you'll ever challenge for the top prizes.

Danny Pughnited

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Gaz, it's not just since 1992 that we have been superior, from 1892-1970's we were more decorated than you too. It's only the 70's and 80's that you were superior. Lets not pretend otherwise.

Sydney!

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Danny you really have no idea. city are a better team now than utd but as a club they are nowhere near as big. it takes more than the form of last couple of seasons. utd dont currently hold any titles but i wouldnt say your a small club. yes city chelsea have much better teams but it wil take a long time to be a bigger club

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I take it this is gaz again, or some other scouse cretin who's too embarrassed to leave a name. Read what I have said, a big club is a club that can compete, year after year, for the top prizes. Same way that big player is a player that can compete at the top level every week.

There are too many so-called big clubs who think that their dusty trophy cabinets and big support bases guarantee their status forever. Big clubs are the clubs who can stay at the top of their game year after year. Chelsea are a big club, City are on their way to becoming a big club, Arsenal are just about hanging on to big club status, and United have been the biggest club in England for the last twenty years.

Are Villa still a big club? No because they have done f**k all for the last decade and a half. Just because Liverpool won a lot in the 70s and 80s doesn't entitle them to big club status. Just because they can still draw a crowd or sell tickets in the US in the pre-season doesn't entitle them. Aside from history and support Liverpool have no claim to big club status. If Liverpool can get back to really competing with the best, then they claim to be a big club, but until then they are nothing but a big time pretender.

Danny Pughnited

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Ok you keep telling yourself that. everyone elses definition of a big club is the most sucessfull teams with big hourners list big fan bases. if you utd fans want your own definition so you can telll yourselfs were not a big club anymore then ok. im sure you will change it next year cos you won nothing last year and from what ive seen of you so far i really cant see you challenging this year so from what you say you will no longer be a big club. for me your getting mixed up between top teams and big club. every liverpool fan knows were not a top team right now.
its funny how you go on about dusty empty trophy cabinets. you do know ours is never empty with a european cup and were also leage cup holders where as yours is as you say dusty and empty

gaz

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Gaz, you still are not grasping it are you? You don't have to win a trophy every season to remain a big club, you have to be challenging. We made the UCL, we were challenging for the EPL. Liverpool are not challenging for the EPL or the UCL. You cannot hide behind your trophies and fanbase forever. As for winning the League Cup, well done for beating Cardiff City on penalties. THE BIG CLUBS played their youth players in that competition. It's no coincidence Birmingham City won it the year before and got relegated. It's no coincidence Championship clubs regularly make the semis. Well done for winning the League Cup and finishing joint 9th.

Sydney!

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07 Oct 2012 21:54:07
And what is this obsession with changing from 442. Can any one of you tell me that on Saturday when we went back to 442 for the second half against Spurs that it wasn't the most exciting 45 minutes we have seen in ages and which one of you can honestly say that they didn't think we were going to do it. We don't have the technical player to play narrow through the middle we need width and to feed our strikers. I AM KLOOT


Ha like I said...not a CLUE :)

Devil Dust.

Believable11 Unbelievable4

07 Oct 2012 21:52:43
Rooney at his best or van Persie at his best? who would u pick?(I know they are slightly different), who contributes more and is therefore more valuable to the teams performance?

for me we could did without rvp but losing Rooney would be a disaster, opinions welcome
roonbest

Believable11 Unbelievable1

When Rooney is at his best I don't think there is a player in the world who can contribute to a game as he does.
I know he is not a messi or Ronald's when it comes to running at players and individual skill but he attacks, he creates, he scores, he defends, he passes short, long, etc etc.
For me, at his best I would not change him for anyone.

Karllap

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Rooney. Hands down. Has anyone noticed how brilliant his freekicks are? Almost every single one is on target and require a good save or a post/crossbar to keep it out.

Percy

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I know Percy.

Makes you wonder why the fu*k Nani has been taking them for so long doesn't it?

Jono

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When Rodney's at his best there isn't a player in the game that can't contribute to a game as he does, funniest thing I have ever heard, thanks I needed on Monday morning, brilliant

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07 Oct 2012 21:33:32
Well done to the lads today. It was great to see united play with passion, energy, belief, zipping the ball around. Plenty of positives from a better team selection by SAF and even Evra trying again.

Fergie must of been inspired by Dortmund in the week or he must of read our comments on here lol.

De Gea flapped at a couple of crosses, Valencia won't take a player on at the moment, but that aside the whole team raised themselves to a higher level. After the internationals we should have more defenders back and hope none of our lads get injured. Then we can kick on and chase Chelsea ! Much better united, glad the real united is still alive and kicking. It was only one match but an encouraging performance!

Bryn Mez

Believable5 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 21:26:53
I notice that Welbeck receives more than his share of criticism on this site, with people saying that his finishing (understandably) could use work. So what is everyone's opinions on Welbeck? Will he make it at United? Should he be sold? I for one think his energy and link up play is very good. Not to mention he's still very young, and will continue to mature into his body. I've always thought he has a very bright future, but I guess time will tell. Thoughts?

Ruudinthemood {Ed004's Note - I think he will get better but ATM I do not think he should be first choice}

Believable4 Unbelievable0

I love his work in and around the box, he will be amazing, lets not forget that drogba didnt become that good until he was about 24/25. I think his first touch, strength and technique is very good pace is ok finishing is below par but i believe that will improve

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My opinion is that he should thank his lucky stars he's a local kid. Without that he would never in a million years play for a top 6 club, let alone the biggest club in the world.

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07 Oct 2012 21:25:57
Played great for the first 20 minutes, then went into our shells. Unfortunately every team knows De Gea's vulnerabilities and so they're gonna throw the ball into the box a la Newcastle today, I'd actually prefer if he just stayed on his line and just saved the shots, which is his BIG strength. We played some great 1 touch football too, even Evra was somewhere near his best. A bit annoyed tho that SAF decided to bring on Giggs again at the end, surely we should be looking to blood some of the younger players. Also Welbeck needs to improve his bloody shooting!!

An Dun Red Devil

Believable7 Unbelievable1

07 Oct 2012 20:53:29
Maybe, just maybe, Fergie has seen the light.

G.A.G.U.S

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Worrying though that we saw the light a year before fergie. I think he had seen the light but was too stubborn to change. Same reason as he does not play young players anymore.
NoMidfield

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07 Oct 2012 20:52:27
Really pleasing performance today, more than any individual it was a significant improvement in the team's energy and desire to win the ball back.

Every player who started played well, although Welbeck and DDG still need to do some extra work after training. (Please just stick with DDG for a few games SAF)

Anyone confused by my frustration at Valencia-there was a classic moment today. He had the ball wide right with 10 metres in front to one marker (left back). He turned inside and played it simple inside.

We worked the ball across their box right to left, Rooney switched play quickly back out to Valencia now with even more space to build up a head of steam, a box full of people to cross to and one on one.

But he just stood there and waited for two opponents to come out to him and then played a simple pass back to Rafael.

It's like he's terrified of losing possession?! If he's going to stand wide and leave the pitch open through the middle, when we get the ball to him in space he has to give us some end product in terms of threatening play. Either a Beckham style touch and whipped cross or take the full back on and try to make something happen.

I have never advocated playing without wingers, but with Nani/Valencia's form I would stick with how we played today. Kags looked good first half, he found space out wide.

Rant over :)
Well done boys :)

DodgyBanter

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Im not sure that's down to Valencia's form. If he charged straight ahead and lost and was dispossed numerously by the left back you would beleive he is out of form, but he simply is not trying to beat a man, just keep possession. i think it's more down to tactics.

Mick

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I guess what I'm saying is - I like my wingers to take more risks to try and make something happen. Other wise we might as well stick to a narrow formation like we started today.

I do wonder if mufc are coaching him to not risk losing the ball, if so we are making him fair less effective in my eyes.i find it equally as frustrating as Nani.

DodgyBanter

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I know what you're saying Mick, but I don't expect my winger to beat the full backs every time. All it takes is for a winger to beat his opposite number once out of ten attempts, to cause damage. Even Ronny can't do it every time!

Keep doing what you always did best Toni, and keep trying to beat your man in attacking positions.

StevieK

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One in ten? That's what nani does and everybody hates him. I would rather we kept possession!

GDS

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GDS - Nani isn't criticised for trying to beat his opposite full-back. Most people appreciate that wingers can't get past every time. But like I said, they should keep trying because it only takes them to get past once.

Nani is criticised, quite rightly, for poor decision-making, poor set-pieces and lack of intelligence in his play, not for trying, successfully or not, to beat full-backs.

StevieK

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Nani is criticised for a) when he beats his man he either shoots and it goes horribly wide or over or b) puts a ball though that noone is chasing and it makes him look bad.

If you step back and realise that Bani actually has the courage to do this them he wouldnt get slated week-in week-out. Valencia's only attribute is he crosses it in and around the penalty area 8-9/10 times giving the runners and forwards seething to attack and the defenders something to worry about.

What I'm saying is simply Nani would rather try and weave his way through than just cross it into the danger zone. Ask yourselves, when was the last time you saw Valencia take on two, maybe three defensive minded players? I know Nani doesn't often but Valencia isn't known for this attribute. They are two completely different players

ALDUtd

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07 Oct 2012 20:31:34
Come january window i dont mind if we let Anderson go and then bring in Strootman,let Hernandez go and bring in Lewandowski and also let Nani go and bring in Tom ince cheaper and add steel at the back inform of Hummels

Believable3 Unbelievable6

January window or FIFA? You are getting confused!

GDS

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07 Oct 2012 20:27:31
Really chuffed for Evra today.

I know he's nowhere near the Evra of old, and he shouldn't maybe be getting as many games any more, but some of the abuse against him on this site has been way over the top, for a player who's served us so well over the years.

Hopefully there's still life in the old dog yet, and he can see out possibly his last season with a bit of dignity and the gratitude of us all.

StevieK

Believable11 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 21:11:50
StevieK

Great post mate. He certainly had one of his better performances in a while. And if this is his last season with us, surely a little bit of gratitude for what he has done for the club wont be too much to ask for.

But then again, am sure there are more than a few pairs of deaf ears that this would go to. You can just hope!

And by the way, forgive me but, just can't help talking about Wayne whenever i see a post of yours. Haha ... I think he has kind off heard you and is trying to redeem himself :) .

Deeps...

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Deeps mate, if that's the case, I wish Nani and Wellbeck could hear me too :)

Another good game from young Wayne today - midfield might be the best use of his talents after all.

StevieK

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07 Oct 2012 20:14:55
A few things stood out for me today.

1. The players looked hungrier that they have so far this season.
2. The 1st 20 minutes is the best I have seen us play for a long time.
3. The formation was mainly good, the lack of width could be solved if the full backs a given few rein to get forward as often as possible (might need to use Buttner for this role though).
4. Cleverley looked very good, let's hope he gets a run.
5. Scholes and Giggs 20 minute cameos are fine - experience is good to close a game out, let's hope they stop getting so many full games.

The only 2 downsides for me were:

1. Welbeck has not developed to the level we hoped he would, I'm not sure he will reach the right level for us.
2. Kagawa is clearly very talented, he just doesn't seem to see enough of the ball - I guess SAF is still finding out how to gel the players.

Best not to mention DDG....

AJH

Believable5 Unbelievable1

07 Oct 2012 20:10:15
So come on then... I'm not seeing any of the usual nonsense about DDG. Improving his aerial ability every match is he? Will be the best in the world any day now will he?
This is a Manchester United's number 1 keeper, and he STILL cannot deal with a cross, catch a ball, or handle any pressure put on him whatsoever. That is NOT good enough and you cannot afford to have your goalkeeper still learning his trade while attemptimg to reclaim the premier league. Even his save off the line was a result of him flapping around earlier.

If he's going to be one of the best in the world one day that's cool. Right now, with the way he continues to struggle, he is average. Anyone who says different has got their united specs on. Great shot stopping doesn't compensate for bad defense. VERY bad defense. {Ed004's Note - I bet you were the type or fan screaming for Ronaldo to be sold when he just arrived if you were supporting the club at that stage}

Believable3 Unbelievable11

Go support someone else then if you wont get behind the players.

Caolán.

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We got a clean sheet didn't we?

Percy

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Absolute pathetic post,the 1st season the great dane was with us he made a lot of mistakes,were you calling forhim to be replaced at the time?if you had watched him in his previous 2 games he had improved his aerial ability a lot,i havnt seen anyone say hes mastered it,he needs to improve a lot. realistically,who would you have brought in to replace van der sar?neuer didnt want to come,so who else good enough was there available?ddg was my 1st choice anyway and we wont regret it,goalkeepers are never a finished article,everykeeper will always make mistakes until the end of their careers so how about laying off him and supporting the young lad,hes only 21,goalkeepers dont hit their peak until 30,i think under the circumstances he done pretty well so far.

phil

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Hate myself for this, but I do agree in small part with the original poster.

When we were looking for a replacement for VDS, I had a personal shortlist of three, and De Gea wasn't in it. I watched a lot of him in Spain, and while undoubtedly a great shot-stopper - he always looked suspect with high balls, and Spanish football didn't exactly pepper keepers with this kind of tactic. I worried for him in English football. I'm old-fashioned and always preferred Northern European keepers - big, strong, solid, brave and no-frills

I though him too slight, and once he was bought I hoped he'd seriously bulk up. That doesn't seem to have happened. Whether we like it or not, physicality is a large part of English football, and if a keeper is deemed suspect under aerial bombardment, you can bet that other teams will always seek to target this weakness. Mistakes also spread confusion and distrust amongst the whole back line.

He seems to be lacking a bit of bravery too, which is essential for a goalkeeper. Classic example of this today when he punched a waist high ball away, rather than catching it, for fear of taking a clattering from the onrushing opposition player.

I hope he does succeed, because he's a Utd player and I hope they're all given a chance to succeed. Intensive training and a bit of bulking up, can also be achieved, so he has a good chance still of making it.

However, you can't teach bravery, - that split second decision to go in for a 50-50 with a Grant Holt, or Ricky Lambert, and worry about getting hurt. That split second indecision costs goals. I worry that this might stop him from being a truly world-class keeper.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do - some of his shot-stopping is inspired, and he's still a young lad. But I have a horrible feeling that one of his 'flaps' might prove costly at the end of the season.

Tough decision - Lindegaard is more solid and dependable, but De Gea stops shots that Lindegaard wouldn't get near. If SAF identified him as our no.1 when he bought him, then I think he should keep playing him. He seems the type of lad, who's confidence might not recover from being dropped on a frequent basis.

StevieK {Ed004's Note - who was your short list}

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DDG is young & constantly improving - people should lay off him.

Not many keepers are world beaters at such a young age, so many years to improve. I'll be the first to say he has weak points but don't most young players?

More gym work & command of his box & he's world number 1. His English will only improve from a communicative perspective, but he has the basis of a top notch number 1.

Give the lad a break!

Moog

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Ed004 - Neuer (ready-made), Rene Adler (ready-made) and Der Stegen (if we were going for youth).

Think Northern Europeans grasp of English tends to be much better than those around the Med, which in turn obviously helps communication along the back line.

StevieK {Ed004's Note - I didn't think ter stegen had much hype 2 years ago?}

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And I can't believe Fergie didn't phone me to ask for my opinion!

StevieK

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Ed004 - He didn't, but I watch a lot of European football, have friends in Germany who raved about him, and I used to be a keeper myself, so I take a particular interest in the position - or I could just play a lot of Football Manager :)

StevieK {Ed004's Note - I thought he only came onto the scene when he started playing in April the year we signed De Gea that means he was only on the scene for 2-3 months}

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Not that much of an anorak, that I've just noticed I spelt his name wrong in my previous post :)

StevieK

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08 Oct 2012 10:03:10
He can't handle any pressure put on him you say? Just ask Petric:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91uYKQ6wtQ8

Viva la Kagawa

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Ed004 - he played a lot in the reserves before that, but was widely regarded amongst most Germans, and 'Gladbach fans in particular, as being 'the next big thing'.

I get the feeling you doubt me, but I'm just quite a sad anorak.

StevieK

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07 Oct 2012 20:04:08
We finally brought our football into the 21st century. We haven't had two central midfielders who can control a game as SAF has wanted since Keane was in his pomp. Finally last weeks game may have opened the managers eyes to the need to change, three years after he knew what the problem was against Barcelona. The change also brought us some vitality in the middle and the first 15 minutes were the best we have played for a while. Rooney looks to have found a position where he can use his skills almost a Platini or Zidane like position and Cleverleys energy made a difference to the dull performance last week. We should not get over confident as two goals were headers from corners and Welbeck should not be be first choice when he cannot finish and whilst he has energy he gives it away too easily.

It doesn't mean we cannot use width in our play but playing two wide is a risk as many of us have said. It would be interesting to know how the decision to change was reached. It wasn't perfect so we shouldn't be overconfident however we were much more compact and it is a tough place to go. DDG needs to relax a bit , all the swapping that SAF is doing makes him too anxious to show he can do the things he has been criticised for, he is trying too hard to dominate and Neville was right on the money with him leaving it to his defenders. Thank goodness Nani was nowhere near the game. Credit to Evra he improved notably today.

There is still a need to invest but to play that style we need more versatile players rather than a defensive tackling midfielder.

Lastly we are 3 nil up why are we going backwards bringing Scholes and Giggs on? Why have we not got a Petrucci or Powell option? 5 minutes for Giggs what is the point? Lastly take a good look at that cameo from Giggs, it was a player who can no longer do it.

Great result but is it the first day of a new style or a make do to protect a shaky back four?

Red Man

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Agree 100% great post.

APC

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07 Oct 2012 19:58:59
where is mike the moston red today you and all the dollyheads that agreed with your post yesterday should hang your heads in shame . as long as weve got fergie as our boss i will always BELIEVE

Believable6 Unbelievable7

07 Oct 2012 19:41:41
Today will be the best you'll see Ferdinand play all season, he dealt with everything that was thrown at him, He deserves all of the praise he's getting.

Hoppy

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07 Oct 2012 19:35:31
I'm of the opinion that Cleverley meant it. He eyed up the top corner, apparently he also said he meant it. The difference he makes to our midfield is incredible. I was disappointed not to see Anderson and Nani as I think with the addition of those 2 and Smalling, we'd have our strongest line up. Overall an impressive performance. Hopefully now we can have a few more like that and keep improving as well!

Percy

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I agree Percy mate, think the way he whips his foot round it to suggests he's tried to fox Harper with his eyes!

Really impressed with the kid today, whether he did or not mean it though, another goal to him to give him a little confidence to try his luck more often.

Ports

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Agree with everything bar Nani.

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Percy, he eyed RVP, not the top corner! The boy's good, but he's not that good :)

StevieK

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07 Oct 2012 19:35:18
Just read that Neymar has said that he would consider an offer from Chelsea as they are one of the 'big 5' clubs that anyone would have to consider. I wonder if we are one of those as this could imply that we did actually offer up some cash for Neymar? Just wondering peoples thoughts on this, of course it is all speculation.

Fresh!

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No doubt we are mate but the problem is we are a very far behind 5th IMO. The other 4 will blow is out the water with money in fees and wages.

Jono

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07 Oct 2012 19:28:33
Much improved display today. Better balance between attack and defence. I've been critical of Cleverley before but he was excellent today. To be fair the whole team were impressive with one exception. Say what you like about Hernandez but at least he can finish. Welbeck is at best an average player and nowhere near good enough for United. Being a local lad doesn't make him a better player. Some mid table club would probably pay decent money for him so sell him and get a real striker in.

Believable4 Unbelievable4

07 Oct 2012 19:22:11
As you can c, Rooney is starting to gradually get deeper and deeper. Next season, he will take Scholses role and we will buy Lewandowski

Believable1 Unbelievable3

07 Oct 2012 19:09:51
Rooney for me was the MOTM. He was everywhere. Brilliant attacking play and some crucial clearences. I can remember him tracking back numerous times to check Ben Arfa's run, who looked like their only player who could create a bit of magic.

I don't see any mention of Carrick though. His performance was only inferior to Rooneys today. The amount of interceptions and mopping up he did was pretty good. But i guess he would always be underrated.

Deeps...

Believable11 Unbelievable1

07 Oct 2012 18:49:50
This isn't news but there is going to be a #IAMUNITED fanbase event to vs. Stoke City in NY and will start worldwide. I'm from NY and this means so much to me since I don't have money to Old Trafford to watch a game. Bryan Robson will be there and that's a huge honor as fan of the club.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 18:27:18
Lots of postivies:

Formation- Sir Alex seemed to get his tactics right today, and certainly much closer to how most of us would like to see the team line up.

Started strongly.

Defensively a lot sounded than previous games.

Rafeal- Seems to get better and better. Has matured a lot. One of our most consistent performers this season.

Ferdinand- Good response to last week and answered a few critics with that performance.

Evra- Has had a lot of justified criticism, but was like the Evra of old today, deserves praise for once.

Cleverley- Whether he meant it or not, great shift put in today, loads of energy and seemed more positive with passing and runs than usual.

Rooney- Outstanding.

APC

Believable8 Unbelievable1

07 Oct 2012 18:19:38
i have to say great result good tactics and good formation. also good games from evans cleverly kagawa carrick rio and great perfomances from rooney, rafael and evra!!

Coombesy

Believable4 Unbelievable2

07 Oct 2012 18:18:28
Fantastic result. Clean sheet and we scored from two corners. We've been asking saf to play this formation for a year. All of a sudden he plays it and he is a tactical genius.
Anyway better late than never. Come on u Reds.
NoMidfield

Believable4 Unbelievable3

07 Oct 2012 18:16:29
That was a gd performance today happy overall still slight concerns but more like it every1 goes on about how badly we have started but think of it from this point of view when was the last time we had a stable back 4 that played together week in week out? All the blame goes on the midfield but maybe they are looking shaky because they are concerned on supporting the back line not to worry anyway players are coming back from injury which is always gd more depth more competition for positions and we always grow as a team come Xmas time I here it year in year out united don't have a strong team but we always find a way I believe that will be the case this season again

Believable0 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 18:14:37
Another step in the right direction today. A better performance and a good result away to Newcastle. Was glad for Cleverly who I thought played well. Rooney was looking good too. Hopefully the performances can keep improving over the next few weeks but all in all a much needed win given the results yesterday

Gav

Believable1 Unbelievable1

I think the manager was very happy with the diamond formation today going by his reaction afterwards, this is the formation we should have played against Spurs. We always have Young and Valencia if we want to add more width.

Sydney!

Agree2 Disagree1

I thought Valencia added a different dimension when he came on tbh and for me he is far better then Wellbeck at present. I would play Kagawa coming in off the left and Valencia on the right, I would leave the rest as it was today. I think that would be a good mix of intricate footballers (Kagawa, Rooney) and outballs (RVP, Valencia)

Gav

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07 Oct 2012 17:50:53
Don't get me wrong but don't be surprise if you see other young kids from our Youth leaving by the end of the year! SAF like old players. No doubt

Good win by the way and I hope it can build our overall performance to good ones.

Nick86

Believable2 Unbelievable1

Old? Who? Rafael 22, Cleverley 23, Evans 24, DDG 21, Rooney 26, Welbeck 21, Kagawa 23 are hardly old.

Strange post.

Sydney!

Agree3 Disagree8

Syd I think he meant about Giggs + Scholes getting some time today, IMO someone like Hernandez or Anderson should of at least got 5 minutes, But I guess it was used for possession reasons.

-JakeW

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Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Rio and Evra.

Percy

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Read the post Mr. Sidney! Will make tou feel good.

Just read it!

Nick86

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Rio played only because he's the most experienced fit defender we have and both Rafa and Jono need his exp. Evra played well he played. Carrick again is our most experienced in that position. Schooes came on to keep the ball. Giggs i don't think should even be on the bench.

Agree0 Disagree0

Exactly, you can see why the manager played all of those players except Giggs. Evra would play whilst Buttner is still bedding in, Carrick suits the diamond more than anyone else we have other than Fletcher who still isn't 100%. Ferdinand was always going to play and rightly so. Scholes came on to keep possession. So to me only Giggs was a wasted substitute. The others were always going to play today.

Sydney!

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07 Oct 2012 17:50:21
Rafael has been consistently one of our top players! Ben Arfa (whom I rate highly) could generate nothing against him...not to mention the fact that Rafael has been creating a few chances going forward every game as well!

Pistol

Believable5 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 17:32:13
as a great commentator once said "take a bow son".
great goal tom, whether you meant it or not lol.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

Forget the goal, the performance was very good. Closing down, intercepting passes, didn't stop running. Rooney and Cleverley play well together in the midfield area. Glad to hear the manager say he will tinker with this diamond some more. Swap Welbeck with Lewandowski and Carrick with Wanymana and we will have a very good midfield and attack.

Sydney!

Agree4 Disagree6

Sydney!,

To be fair, considering the way he's played this season, swapping Welbeck with literally any half-decent striker would be a massive improvement in attack.

Agree4 Disagree4

07 Oct 2012 17:27:30
How the hell does Welbeck stay on the pitch most of the time ? He is so awful with the ball... Kagawa should of stayed on and Welbeck off.

Believable7 Unbelievable2

I think Welbeck stayed because he helped out better defensively, Kagawa went off because he was getting a hard time on the ball.

-JakeW

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07 Oct 2012 17:04:41
I'm beginning to think that RVP is the slowest striker wev'e ever had , much slower than Berbatov.
We need to replace him at half time with Valencia and put Kagawa just behind Wellbeck.
Raffa

Believable2 Unbelievable16

Ha brilliant post.

GDS

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Whats your problem with rvp? You wanted him dropped for cluj game you must know nothing about football today he was fantastic his hold up play and linking play was brilliant and his deliverly for the goal was great.

Caolán.

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I actually cannot believe my eyes!

TK-Red

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Nothing whatsoever.
Raffa

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Raffa, you keep calling for the BEST striker in the premier leauge to be dropped, please give me a valid reason

Agree0 Disagree0

Its because he's a bitter scouser thats all.

Agree1 Disagree0

07 Oct 2012 16:53:57
Good start to the first half, and good defending when Newcastle stepped into gear, we need 1 more goal in the next half to put the game to bed.

I feel sorry for Welbeck, he is unlucky to not score, hopefully next half we will.

Kagawa is doing great on the wing and overall everyone is doing good.

Evra's turning point? lol.

-JakeW

Believable3 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 16:53:24
sell nani and hernandez and buy hummels, vidal and lewandowski..

Believable5 Unbelievable3

Easy like that, then sell Rooney and RVP and buy Messi and Benzema? This isn't Fifa Career mode mate.

-JakeW

Agree7 Disagree2

07 Oct 2012 16:52:55
I think fergie should listen to what gary is saying about De Gea. For the time being De Gea should leave the crosses to the defenders.

Overall pretty pleased with the 1st half performance

James

Believable2 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 16:51:55
Best 20 minutes of the season with 2 unlikely scorers from 2 corners. Newcastle look frustrated, I hope none or our lads get hurt. I would bring in Anderson for kagawa.

Believable0 Unbelievable3

07 Oct 2012 16:47:01
Tiote has looked like a little spoiled boy. Should be on a red as well.

Kuala

Believable2 Unbelievable1

07 Oct 2012 16:44:57
Surprise, surprise...we play without wingers for the first time since I can remember and have our best midfield performance since the days of Keano. So I fully expect to have SAF go back to playing wingers next weekend when Giggs and Nani return to the squad...

Believable4 Unbelievable2

07 Oct 2012 16:19:26
Absolutley loving this team ! And 2-0 in the space of 15 mins ! Absolute class so impressed for the first time this season been genuinely excited and impressed with this united team. I always thought when we clicked we would be devastating ! Let's hopefully not lose concentration and earn a big win ! Impressive so far nonetheless. Rooneys the key. And bloody happy to see De Gea in goal !

Park 3 lung

Believable2 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 16:17:43
WOW... we never score from corners lol... now we have 2..

Believable4 Unbelievable0

Nani corner taking?? Haha

Its amazing what can happen when the balls past the first man isn't it?

Jono

Agree4 Disagree0

It's also amazing how much better we are playing a diamond formation. What would be good is having someone like Baines taking the corners so RvP and Rooney can get in the box too. Can you imagine the options we would have for freekicks?

Sydney!

Agree3 Disagree0

Sydney,

Your obsession with Baines is on par with Percy and Nani :)

Get over it, we now have two goal scoring LB's haha

Ports

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Ports, an Evra goal doesn't make up for the past three seasons of poor defending. He will still need replacing in the summer and who better than Leighton Baines? Baines has really stepped it up a gear this season. I would use Fabio as a makeweight in the deal.

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree7

Obviously sarcasm is lost on you Syd mate! But what I will say is, Baines is 27 and only stepping up now, we've signed Buttner (23) we have Blackett coming through and Fabio still has time on his side so can't see the point of signing Baines now personally.

Ports

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07 Oct 2012 16:17:17
This is a simply fantastic performance so far. This is the way that we need to go. Its telling that Nani isn't in the squad, I don't think he'll see much action now. Young can fit into this system well, and Valencia gives us something different. They are all that we need. Delighted with the 4-3-3.

Fresh!

Believable4 Unbelievable1

Young does not fit anywhere into this system. Valencia bringing something different means returning to the same old one-dimensional 442 where we get destroyed in midfield. Nice try though!

Agree1 Disagree1

07 Oct 2012 16:16:35
Don't want to come across as overly critical of Welbeck but even Nani would have scored one of those two chances! Never seen us score so many from corners, apart from v Bayern Munich! Ianskip

Believable5 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 16:10:24
YES! great corner and brilliant header evans!

the tempo and movement at the moment is great, lets keep this up.

JK92

Believable6 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 16:09:50
What a header Johnny!

Caolán.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 16:08:21
Very positive start after 7 minutes... Believe!

DodgyBanter

Believable3 Unbelievable1

Ha!
We scored 10 seconds after I posted this!! I know Newcastle came back into it, but the passion, resilience energy is a breath of fresh air... Who said Fergy is finished?!

I expect. Red card in second half. And at least one goal for Newcastle. Just hope we can hold out and maybe hit one or two more on the break. Ando on at some point please, if nothing else just to kick Tiote! ;)

DodgyBanter

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07 Oct 2012 16:06:23
Wellbeck needs to learn not to waste chances

James

Believable4 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 16:00:59
Disappointed we are starting with Welbeck ahead of Anderson.......also hope Evra has a decent game for his own sake!

Ianskip

Believable2 Unbelievable1

07 Oct 2012 15:33:52
a win today is so essential to our season before the national break, i think if we lose we will be to far off to challenge for the title this year unless we can manage to do well in the city chelsea games....hope the lads play well n kick uniteds arses into gear because so far its been uninspiring

COME ON YOU REDS

Believable2 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 15:42:09
Liking the team line-up, 3 strikers playing means Fergie wants goals, lots of them. Good to see Giggs off and Nani off! DE GEA IS FINALLY PLAYING!!

Believable3 Unbelievable0

-JakeW

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07 Oct 2012 15:38:03
Just like to say that I'm really exited bout today's game havin seen the line up. Glad to see welbeck startin. Think this is close to our strongest team bar Smalling and vidic as centre backs

Cummon utd

Believable2 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 15:34:06
Happy that De Gea is starting :)

James

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07 Oct 2012 15:33:31
Team looks good, filled me with more confidence than I had before

Anon

Believable1 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 15:19:38
4-3-3

___________DDG
Rafa___Ferdy___Evans___Evra
__Cleverley_Carrick_Kagawa
Welbeck__Van Persie__Rooney

or

4-2-3-1

___________DDG
Rafa___Ferdy___Evans___Evra
_____Clevers___Carrick
Welbeck___Rooney___Kagawa
_________Van Persie

Sydney!

Believable1 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 15:11:21
I'm ok with that should be newcastle by a couple
Jred

Believable2 Unbelievable1

Yeah i was pleasntly suprised. We haven't really got anyone who can battle with Tiote so why bother trying to battle with him. I hope Welbeck Rooney and Kagawa press them high up the pitch, it'll keep them hemmed in and shield our defence and should mean we can get a few goals.

If were honest Newcastle have a couple of good midfielders in Cabaye and Tiote and a couple of good strikers in Ba and Cisse and a top keeper in Krul but the rest of their team is quite average in all fairness and their defence isn't great, we should press them high up the pitch and peg back their midfield leaving their strikers isolated and cut off, then make the most of their average defence.

I just hope Sir Alex has learned something from watching the Dortmund/City game in the week.

Shappy

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07 Oct 2012 14:53:25
Ben Arfa will demolish Evra tonight.. getting ready for the Evra posts to roll in after the game.

Believable4 Unbelievable2

07 Oct 2012 14:50:10
'Newcastle always make it tough up there and they'll have 50,000 screaming Geordies behind them. But because of the international break, I don't have to think about the next match. I can play the best team I can.'

So its clear that the team out today, is the best team Ferguson thinks he has (excluding the injuries)? I highly doubt that.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

Sorry, looking at the team sheet now.. apart from Evra. It sorta is our best team right now.

Agree1 Disagree0

07 Oct 2012 14:34:41
there was a time when i always had confidence the we would or could turn over any team we came up against but now every game seems to be a finger biting affair, the way we are getting opened up through midfield and defence leaves me thinking that even a top 4 finish might be asking a to much this season.

Believable2 Unbelievable3

07 Oct 2012 14:26:29
I never said that Kagawa was as good as Iniesta, just that his close control is very similar. Which it is. Anyone who watches them can surely notice this!

Percy

Believable7 Unbelievable2

07 Oct 2012 14:10:02
Ed/syd ..what you will prefer to Be nxt Man utd man
'Hummels Or Strootman'

Reply

Yash(india)

Believable1 Unbelievable0

They are different players, for starters one is a defender while the other a mid.

Agree0 Disagree1

07 Oct 2012 15:41:50
Both would be ideal and would probably complete the squad.

Fresh!

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07 Oct 2012 13:50:31
The Hummels rumour is from caught offside. It should be given no credit whatsoever especially because earlier this summer he signed a contract until 2017. Ed?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

Caught offside generally reports bs and i agree that this is all highly unlikely. One he signed a long term contract two he would not even want to come three dortmund will not be willing to sell. Shahram

Agree1 Disagree0

07 Oct 2012 13:05:08
I see we are all discussing tactics again but the major problem we will be up against to compete and change formation is we don't have good enough CM combo's.

We can't work with a 4-2-3-1 as any combo of 2 we can match together is not strong enough either with or without the ball. It's a major weakness we have even with the 4-4-2 formation so 2 on their own with no wide men helping out will be even worse.

4-3-3 we could, and I stress could manage but those 3 middle berths should be rotated between Fletch, Clevs, Ando, Carrick, Tunners, Powell and Petrucci. If we are not buying a CMer then these guys have to be playing. They are all 18/19/20 and that is more than old enough to be playing first team football. Let's put it this way they can do no worse than Giggs, Scholes Carrick trio against younger hungrier teams. At least they would match their enthusiasm and drive.

The likelihood is that fergie thinks he has tinkered with it but in reality he has done very little and almost went 4-3-3 but it kind of made a 4-4-1-1 which is defeating the purpose of the three man CM. any combo of 2 from our personnel in any formation is simply not good enough. Our best 2 in CM would be Fletch and Clevs simply as they have the batteries to press and hassle at the loss of a great ball player. Out with them everyone has their issues whether it's mobility, ability, passing, playing under pressure or many of the above.

I am by no means saying if I had my way they would be first choice as there would be an overhaul of personnel if I got what I wanted but in the situation we are in currently then IMO that would be the best 2.

But should we be playing with 2 anyway?

IMO its a resounding NO!

We have seen so many teams play the simple tactic of dropping a striker for and extra CM v us and it has reaped rewards.

This is not a new concept. This has happened for 3 years. Games that stick out were Blackpool and west brom three years ago, Swansea, Basle, etc lst season and everyone so far this year. We have not realised in any way how to change mid game. Our players have specific roles and if plan A doesn't work we are goosed. There is no tactical shake up,mno inspired subs to change or counter the oppositions threats, we stick to the 60-70min mark before considering a swap. Or 90+ in Chicho's case the other day.

It is this tactical ineptness that is failing this squad. All we are is an overhaul in CM and a bit of luck injury wise away from being a very good team again. Our defence could use a top CB and LB but IMO the major issue has to be the middle. It's where we are losing the ball every game and if your CM don't show up or are not able to due to the tactics of the oppo then we are up against it from the start.

So what should we do?

Well I'll put my spin on it.

We should get rid of Giggs, Scholes, Ando now and in a year Carrick. Sign players in similar moulds to Vidal, Cabaye, Marchasio, M 'Vila etc. ie guys that are CMers playing in CM. none of this using ancient wingers or dropping CAMers further back or defenders forward nonsense. They are not comfortable there and it shows MASSIVELY!

If we pushed our younger guys through now we would have three top young players in Petrucci, Powell and Tunners (would have been even better with Pogba but oh well). Add to that the exp of Fletch, Carrick and Clevs plus 2 actual CM signings and that will allow a loan for the younger ones then once Carrick leaves 7 bodies for 2/3 positions.

We could all pick and choose favourites for signings (Vidal and Cabaye for me) but in reality anyone of good quality is a step up. If he is a great player then even better but those young guys barring injury should progress to at least squad players so the only option is to buy for the first team and buy ready made quality. The type of players capable of leading these youngsters and our team into the new era of a new manager!

We shouldn't be in this situation anyway and the blame for that solely lies at SAF feet!

Jono

Believable4 Unbelievable2

Unfortunately Scholes is still our best midfielder, it's not his fault we have not invested in that area in yonkers. Giggs should retire and we should sell Nani, Bebe, Machita for what we can get.

shahram

Agree0 Disagree0

Your right with alot of what you say but i think the thing that is holding us back in terms of signing a midfielder is tactics and more importantly the tactics of who will be the new manager. Sir Alex isn't blessed with great tactical knowledge and as such we don't have a real tactical plan in games. The type of midfielder we will need will depend on the tactics we want to employ, and what tactics the new manager will want to empoly. As such signing a player who'll be so key to any new tactics employed when we don't know what we need is a waste of time and money. This is one of the main reasons why i feel no midfielder has signed and why i don't feel we'll get one until a new manager in brought in.

The way i see it Sir Alex seems to be recruiting defenders and attackers every window, these are player who can easily adapt to any tactics, but the key to any tactical plan is your midfield, here we have been spending no money but nurturing youth players who will be at the least squad players but the real first choice midfielders don't seem forth coming any time soon. I think the plan is for Sir Alex to step aside with a squad that has great defenders and attackers with a decent base of young midfielders thus allowing the new manager to make a couple of signings in midfield to adear him to the fans and allowing him to sign the midfielders of his choice to fit in to his tactical plan.

Shappy

Agree4 Disagree0

I see your thinking Shapps but cannot see SAF agreeing to that.

I couldnt see him saying yeah I'll do without any CM reinforcement until the next guy pitches up. I think he has been stubborn to the point he wants 1/2 a window if they din one off he wouldn't pursue any others. I think that's why we have had no CM for donkeys years.

Jono

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I agree with Jono's theory of why we haven't bought any CM'ers recently. Fingers crossed one of SAF's top targets will agree to join by the end of next summer

Gav

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07 Oct 2012 13:17:55
Score predictions lads? Going 2-0 win to us with van Persie and a Rooney penalty

Caolán.

Believable1 Unbelievable2

Thats optimistic mate haha.

I'll probably change my guess after the teams are out but just now I'll say either 1-1 or 2-2.

Hope not mind.

Jono

Agree3 Disagree1

Changed my mind as I thought the lineup posted earlier by a no name was actual.the real line up is encouraging and gives us a chance to at least draw even maybe win.

Interesting no nani or buttner on the bench

shahram

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I've seen team, I think 1-3 (Man Utd win). Got some nerves tho!!

Come on Utd!

DodgyBanter

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07 Oct 2012 12:34:37
Not like you to pick nani percy are you sure your not his love child lol
johndenton

Seen as I'm 7 years younger than him, I highly doubt it. I put him in there because of how he links up with Cleverley, Anderson and Kagawa, I also think he's our best winger.

Percy

Believable1 Unbelievable6

The only thing Nani links is the crossover between our possession and losing it! ;-)

I do however dont think he will start.

------------Linders
Rafa-----Rio--Evans---anyone covering Evra
-----Carrick-Scholes-Fletch
Rooney------RVP-------Kags

I wouldn't mind that to be honest but will we see it?

Doubtful!

Jono

Agree0 Disagree1

07 Oct 2012 12:08:10
team i like to see start today, any views Ed & peeps.

De gea
rafael---smallling (if fully fit)---evans---buttner
-fletcher-
cleverley---anderson
rooney-----------kagawa
Van persie
...subs..
lindegaard
evra
ferdinand
scholes
valencia (if fit)
wellbeck

Believable3 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 11:32:02
really hope we sign hummels, him and smalling would be brilliant together, both are quick tall and strong so we could play a higher line and not so deep in our half,
which would allow us to play at the tempo we did against spurs in the 2nd half.

i doubt we'll sign him though.

JK92

Believable10 Unbelievable0

07 Oct 2012 10:38:37
Away from today's game the club is erecting a statue of SAF. Yes, very good but there are a lot of players who deserve a statue plus I agree with Kloot on Jimmy Murphy. We should look at statues for players like Bill Foulkes, a babes Munich survivor who served the club heroically straight after the tragedy though to that night in 68 and beyond. Where is the recognition of him, do we really have to wait for him to pass away before doing something? There are many other candidates and i dont suggest numerous ones but players like Nobby, Harry Gregg, Duncan Edwards, Eric, Robson ,Keane , Neville should be recognised. For me there should be more recognition around the ground of our great history and it should serve as a reminder to every opposition fan and player of where and who they are about to play.

Red Man

Believable4 Unbelievable1

There should be a team statue of the busby babes.

i don't think keane will get a statue unfortunately.

JK92

Agree3 Disagree0

There is simply too many that deserve a statue, but SAF deserves one more than any of the above. I am all for Carrington being named after Jimmy Murphy.

Sydney!

Agree4 Disagree0

I would like to see one in a few years of Giggs, Scholes and Neville, once Giggs and Scholes have retired.

Welsh Dragon

Agree0 Disagree0

That's the problem if we built a statue for everyone who deserves one we wouldn't be able to get to the ground lol. I agree though all these people should be remembered in some public way. Maybe a mural or something? You should suggest it to the club somehow....

Gav

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07 Oct 2012 10:23:15
Today we will find out whether SAF has learned anything from the recent games and I include the Dortmund one he and the tactical maestro Phelan watched. If our midfield is Giggs, Scholes Carrick and Nani I feel we would lose probably by two goals at least.

When we look at an opposition midfield and believe it is better than ours we are likely to struggle. There was a time when we only worried about Barca and Madrid, now we look at mid table or higher teams midfields with envy. Last week Spurs had Dembele and pre game it was so obvious we would struggle. Then think about the Everton and Liverpool games and probably looking ahead our poor midfield leaves us open to the likes of West Brom and Stoke causing us major problems.

Today Newcastle who thrashed us there last season have a better central midfield pair than us and I openly question our manager at how this has been allowed to happen, however it has. To combat Cabaye and Tiote we will need energy in the middle, Carrick and Scholes won't do that. We have a striking combination to fear but a midfield that struggles to deliver. We cannot afford to play the profligate Nani if we are to retain possession, we are going to need to win the midfield to pass the ball so we need to change personnel and tactics from the Spurs game. When I watched Dortmund in the week the pace, energy and verve of younger players stood out and SAF was there so has he learned? When the team is announced we will know if we have a chance but what is most concerning is that this is how we think about SAF now. He has had some real selection shockers in the past but generally he got it right. Now we fear his latest team selection and tactics because it seems he isn't seeing things that most football watchers can see. Our tactics during the Phelan years have until Cluj remained firmly fixed , so today the team sheet will make interesting reading beyond normal. I hear you say we are only 6 games in, however our midfield is such a mess that there is a major question mark over whether we can recover, plus lose today and it would be 3 losses in 7 games before we even play City, Chelsea or Arsenal. It makes today's team sheet the most important one for some time.

Red Man

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Ive said over the last week redman that the next 4-5 weeks will determine our season with the games we have.i will still be going to every home game and a few aways but i honestly think that we will be well off the pace at the top of the epl by christmas i hope im wrong but nothing in our performances even when we have won has convinced me that we will get much out of the bigger teams.
johndenton

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I think the manager needs to play with a 3-man midfield using players that play at a high tempo. Many will disagree, but I would suggest Fletcher, Anderson and Cleverley with Rooney, RvP & Kagawa ahead of them. Rooney and Kagawa will inevitably drop back into midfield increasing the numbers to deal with Cabaye, Tiote & Ben Arfa. I would play this team:

__________Lindegaard
Rafael___Ferdy___Evans___Buttner
___Clevers__Fletcher__Anders
_______Rooney__Kagawa
__________Van Persie

However I would expect to see:

________Lindegaard
Rafa___Ferdy___Evans___Evra
______Carrick__Scholes
L.Nani_____Rooney_____Giggs
_________V.Persie

Sydney!

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I agree entirely Redman. SAF has lost the plot and Phelan has never had one!
Watching Dortmund in midweek, made me feel happy at the football played, but also depressed me beyond belief as to how far we have slipped in the past three years.
Our tactics are shocking, team selections that have more to do with loyalty than form or skill.
I saw this in the 70's when the great late Sir Matt Busby retired and the same mistakes are being made now.
Still, saf remains upbeat and is telling us that we have a great team. Wake up call required saf!
We have not got a great team, we have got a good attacking team with no midfield or defense or tactics.
NoMidfield

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Why we fans and sharam constantly question ferguson tactics is unbelieveable.you think you know best just because you sit and watch united play on tv makes you think you know more than a man whom has made us fans to love united.I guess many of you fans out there never followed united as true supporters until fergie started winning trophies for us and you come on here and question the manager's tactics.what a shame you fans are.the team is currently not playing in the level we know united are.but cmon we signed persie and kagawa,we are six or there about in the league with a game in hand in which if we win we go second in the league.we have six points already in champions league.we have prgressed through in league cup.we still have about 32 games left to play in d league.we are going in the right direction as the team will only get better as games goes by and we will start seeing the true flowing united way.we have had bad injuries in defence which has affected us badly but will come good.I watched fergie press conference,he was asked why our defence concede too many goals and we allow team score us first before responding and he replied that he his working on that.and for me no coach is better at bouncing back than fergie because the man has passion and enthiumsism for the game.so am surprise why some fans can wake up,come here and ask for the manager to be sacked.its unbelieveable.

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To above no name.

What are you on about?

We as fans pay our money to watch Manchester united. We want the team to win, we want success we want top players whether purchased or brought through and we would all want to watch great football.

The problem lies in the fact our play has been workmanlike at best for 2-3 years, the signings although better but not in the right positions this year again!, the tactics we are using are the exact same as when we played 12 years ago difference is we don't have Keane and Scholes in their prime in there anymore and as a result we are getting over run by any team that adopts certain tactics against us. That is any team!

So if you are happy to just tow the line and see nothing but what the league table and CL group shows after a few games then fine. I will guarantee you won't be celebrating much come may time.

Oh and if fergie has made you love Utd so much I take it your not a 'true' fan that supported the team pre fergie either?

Jono

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No name

I supported united for nearly twenty years before SAF came along and given I pay my money to sit at OT i think it gives me as much right as anyone to express an opinion. I remember the end of our last great manager and he was beyond question , which meant we waltzed into decline by letting players age and decline. He retired leaving the old greats without young upcoming stars, then the owners wouldn't spend what was needed on the level of player needed. Do you recognise anything? In my opinion we are heading in the same direction but with SAF too close to see the problems with a lack of a proper No2 to question him. He is showing the same traits as Clough and is similarly very stubborn.

Indeed we bought RVP and Kagawa but not the central midfield or Nani replacement we surely needed to do plus knew Rio was struggling, with Vidic still recovering from a major injury and both well over 30 yet did nothing. We haven't even mentioned Evra. Our young players get very little chance and the two best ones have left

The performances last season were poor although we often scraped results but this season we are struggling to scrape results again , culminating with a dreadful team selected against Spurs in which we got what we deserved, we won that type of game last season and that is the difference. Our players in a few positions would not get into a mid table opposition team let alone City or Chelsea.

However you would tell us not show any dissent just to pay up and shut up, don't question what is in front of us. History is taught in schools for a reason because we learn from what has happened to avoid it in future. We need to remember our history when Sir Matt retired, what happened with Clough plus note what happened to Liverpool in 1990 when they thought the good times would never end.

Today is a watershed for me because if it is Scholes and Carrick in the middle and we then lose I will be distinctly unhappy with our manager

Red Man

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No name I just paid 720 pounds and bought my two boys pretty much everything from the merchandising store. I have supported the club for the last 38 years and guess what loved them back when we were average. Ferguson has also had immense money at his disposal for years and has outspent most of our rivals till recently and was fortunate with the arrival of that special group of youth players, which he did not have anything to do with. We have been s..t so far this year and whether people like to hear it or not it is true. That does not make me a lesser fan than you. Next time leave a name.
Shahram

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I pay about £2500 a season to watch utd including travel and drinks and was there 15 years before fergie turned up and i will still be there when hes gone.i dont care if we dont win trophys every year i just want to watch decent football,not a lot to ask for.
johndenton

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07 Oct 2012 10:05:57
Our wing backs need to know how to stay in their own half and stop attacking as much. That's down to our centre backs to tell them.

We have enough players up top to hurt any team in the world. Whenever the wing backs get forward it leaves Ferdinand open to attack and he can't cover 2 positions at once. Same with the other cb whoever that may be on the day.

Tactical change of not bombing the wing backs forward and here's a thing.. GETTING THEM TO DEFEND! Will make a huge difference in our habit of conceding easy goals!

Defenders are meant to defend first. Do your own job and let the attackers attack!

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Or maybe we should just use them as they are intended and get our tactic's right. With wing backs you need a DM to act as cover, where were going wrong is we want to have two strikers two wingers and get our wing backs forward as well then we wonder why our midfield and defence are so expoesed and teams just waltz though the centre.

We need to dump the wingers and get our width from our wing backs, we need to have a DM in place to cover them. and we need more bodies in the middle who can keep the ball and pass intelligently. Then we'd be much more solid defensively, and be just as potent in the attacking third.

Shappy

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Unfortunately they've no choice if we play without wingers - we need the width from somewhere.

StevieK

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I agree shappy (original poster here). Big turnaround needed! I'm liking the rumours of Hummels coming in and Wanyama is looking great in the Celtic game (sllysports4).

Chances of getting him?

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Hummels i'd say next to no chance, Madrid and Barca are keeping tabs on him as are Bayern and Milan. We just can't compete with these clubs. These clubs have just as much chance of winning titles as we do if not more, they are nicer cities(especially if your foreign) to live in and they can pay them the same kind of wage as we can. We've never really been able to compete with these clubs on a consisitant basis.

As for Wanyama, he looks a decent prospect but has a long way to go yet, he isn't ready for the pressure of carrying Man Utd. He needs anothe couple of years esle where imo.

Shappy

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07 Oct 2012 09:48:09
So saf has said that he will continue to rotate goalkeepers as the policy has "worked". How has he come to this conclusion when our defence has been leaking goals at an alarming rate. Also he has asked for a show of defiance, play Rio, Scholes Giggs and carrick again and we will be torn apart just like spurs did.
NoMidfield

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07 Oct 2012 09:35:38
Just a topic for debate. In the past I've always compared our players to other premiership teams. Of the present team, who will u keep if you compare to city or Chelsea ? I will keep Raphael, rvp, Valencia and wazza. The rest I'll swap! Just a thought on strength/weakness of our side.
NoMidfield

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07 Oct 2012 04:58:39
please someone tell me why we are persisting with evra at lb when he has been at fault for 80% of our conceded goals this season seems to think his job is left wing and no defending required these days bit like ince back in the day

juspij

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07 Oct 2012 03:44:39
It's the same old story really. These greedy American persons are continuing to halt our clubs progress. """
dear mr no name
ngiak reads the new buzz words in 'no one is bigger than the club'
many players etc are mentioned
how about a very outdated manager
who sticks to a tactically naive coach
totally mismanaging a very good squad
and persisting with woeful and extremely inadequate favorite players
a famous Chinese proverb once said
"out with the old and in with the new"
if the rubbish is not swept out, the cream cannot float to the top
and that includes EX legends...
gan

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Stunning range of mixed metaphors there Ng. Giggs needs to retire. Rio and Scholes in the summer. Other than that, your proverbs don't make a lot f sense

Kuala

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