Manchester United Banter Archive June 08 2013

08 Jun 2013 23:31:48
I can understand you rating Fab, Modric, Alcantara all above Strootman but surely those 3 offer similar attributes i. e. creativity, passing, technique? For me one of those 3 would be great as an improvement on Cleverly. But surely we still need someone with defensive ability, strength and industry to balance it out? Strootman plus one of those 3 makes more sense to me, he could take Carrick's role in the long term or we could even play a 3 man midfield with both plus 1 more technical player.

I'm a fan of all of Fab, Modric, Alcantara but I don't think we need 2 of this ilk.

HoneyBadger

HB
If we bought modric or fab where would you play them pal

Jred

Jred, if we bought one of Modric or Fabregas why wouldn't we play them there their current teams play them? in the final third.

When Modric came on against in the UCL he played as one of the three behind the striker.

Fabregas plays a lot of his games in an advanced position, even as a false 9.

If we were to sign one of Modric, Fabregas or Thiago then I would play them on the right or left of Kagawa. This would help us be able to use a high pressing game by having a player who can close down and retain the ball higher up the pitch.

It would give us options of either 2 or 3 in midfield and many good possibilities.

I see Strootman as the long term Carrick replacement but also if we need a solid/hard to break down midfield in certain games they could partner one another too. They are quite similar but Strootman is more dynamic in that he brings the ball forwards at his feet at times whilst Carrick would deeper pulling the strings IMO. Against less physical/lesser opponents Carrick & Modric/Fab would be good to dominate possession. But we could also play all 3 -with Fab/Modric in front of the 2 - which could really dominate games.

These are the kind of options that I'd like to see in our midfield. Although I'd be more than happy with Strootman & Alcantara.

How would you look to accommodate 2 of those creative types along with Kagawa in our lineup?

Shaps
Modric and fab were both better players for spurs and arsenal in there natural positions, fab especially.

Hb
the same way Dortmund did, I think fab and modric can do a similar job as gundogan.
everybody would like us to sign gundogan and I think modric and fab played similar roles at arsenal and spurs.
I also think wilshere plays that role I would like to sign him.
Modric and van der vaart also did well for spurs
Jred

09 Jun 2013 09:56:04
I think your forgetting that when Fabregas used to play that role for Arsenal he was getting injuried all the time. At the start of his Arsenal career he played more advanced, in the line between Henry and the midfield, then when they lost key midfielders they dropped Cesc further back. And although he done well in that role he started picking up a lot of injuries. If you remember a lot of the Arsenal fans thought that Cesc was injury prone and thought Barca were buying a crock. But since he's been at Barca he has had next to no injuries. Maybe you can argue that in Spain the game isn't as rough. But I think its that playing deeper you get thrown into the midfield battle and you get more kicks and hard challenges. Its the same situation with Anderson, he never got injuried until we strarted playing him deeper. Although he does't help himself with his weight.

There for if we bought Cesc and played him deeper then we could see the return of the twice or three times a season injuried Fabregas.

And although Modric has stuggled to settle in Madrid his best performances have come playing as the central player in the three behind the striker. So he is more than cabable of playing such a role.

Snappy
Modric best games have been for spurs and Croatia playing in a midfield 2 or as a deep cm in a 3
Fabergas might get injured? I think you could say that about any player.
jred

Jred, we didn't get overrun last season because Carrick & Cleverley were not good enough defensively, we got overrun in midfield because we were outnumbered in midfield. Cesc offers nothing more than Cleverley defensively so a Carrick & Cesc midfield will still get overrun.

However a Carrick, Cesc & Strootman three-man midfield would not get overrun.

Sydney!

09 Jun 2013 11:28:16
Fabregas has history of getting injuried whrn playing deeper though. And I don't think Modric is on the radar.

Jred

I like the sound of a Gundogan or Modric in a 2 man midfield TBH, alongside Carrick. But I'd still argue we need someone like Stroot for more physical games. Carrick is getting on too so what harm getting his long term replacement in early to be phased in? It would also put us in a position to field a strong 3 man midfield as I've said above.

Fab on the other hand, I'm not sure he's cut out for a 2 man midfield, he seems to have developed into more of an offensive player. Might be wrong but I don't see him at OT anyway.

08 Jun 2013 21:49:03
Does anybody kno anything about this young lad we've just signed who plays right back? Can't seem to find much out about him, so if the other readers or any. Of the eds could enlighten me I'd really appreciate it. Thank

Dom

I'm sure some will claim to but I honestly have never noticed or heard of him
Jred

I don't know much for once. I'm not too good on south american based players to be honest as it's hard to get to see full games to judge these players by.

I have an Argentine friend who normally gives me tips about good young south american players. I asked him about Varela, but he said apparently he's only played once or twice for Panerol's first team. So he doesn't know that much about him either. Apparently within Panerol he was quite highly rated, but I don't think that tells us much.

All I can tell you is he is a quick attack minded right sided full back apparently in the mould of Rafael. He had a trail with us and impressed the staff to the point that we went out and signed him. Even though we have a highly rated young right back in Marnick Vermijl. So I would think they must rate him as better than Vermijl.

Either way he is a work in progress and I wouldn't expect much from him next season, maybe at most a couple of cup games.

I don't personally understand the logic behind this signing. Rafael is hardly getting on so I don't see how he'll ever get the first team game time required to develop.

Locky,

What if rafael gets injured? Last season we had at least 2 players for every position so in theory you could make two teams, but if rafa didn't play the right back would be a player moved from another position. It makes perfect sense why we would sign a full back.

GDS,

Surely Chris Smalling is capable of playing at right back, so is Phil Jones, and as a last resort Valencia has been known to play there. I feel we already have adequate cover in that position IMO.

Locky,

Answered your own question there and agreed with my point whilst disagreeing with it. Phil jones and chris smalling are not right full backs and we are weaker when they play there. Maybe moyes wants them to concentrate on their 1st choice position in order to improve there rather than moving around.

GDS, to be fair United were interested in Varela pre-Moyes. So SAF also wanted a back-up for Rafael. I would say SAF's & Moyes' two brains is better than one (Locky).

Sydney!

GDS,

Is versatility not important these days? I don't feel we are that much weaker when Jones plays there, if anything it makes us stronger defensively as he is a better defender than Rafael. If you look at other players in similar situations, such as Ivanovic, Sergio Ramos, they are equally adept playing right back as they are centre half, sometimes its good to have defenders that aren't rigid in the sense they can only play one position, plus they won't be spending a whole season there so the odd game won't be too bad for them.

Smalling and Jones are not RBs, they are CBs something which shows when they play there and Valencia is a RM. We currently have only 1 RB in our squad so it makes sense to bring in someone who will act as natural cover.
DHK

Smalling, Valencia & Jones are not RB's. Isn't it time we played players in their actual positions? I haven't seen anything of him, but the club have signed him to back-up Rafael and they have deemed him good enough. We will get a chance to watch him in a tournament in a couple of week's time.

Sydney!

Agree with GDS.

The problem with Jones/Smalling at full back is this position as evolved into a more offensive position in the modern game. Our RB needs to be able to run tirelessly up and down the pitch, overlapping the winger and providing a good final ball when required. Jones/Smalling can do the defensive bits but aren't natural at crossing and overlapping like Rafael is. Hopefully the new boy will be, with time, meaning that if Raf is injured we're not just doing a 'patch up job' by putting a CB there. At such a small outlay this seems like a sensible risk to me.

The problem I see it, and as honeybadger brings up, is the influence in the final third from a RB.
Smalling is brilliant defensively, will run all day and does offer an outlet to the midfield, but he can't cross, can't shoot and his passing has seemed to stagnate over the last 12 months.
A similar thing can be said of Jones. defensively he is solid, but up the other end he may beat a player now and again but he can't cross for s**t.
On the flip side we have ToniV who is the opposite of these 2. offensively he offers a lot more but defensively he can be useless with his positional play.

Varela although not a household name is a RB. I don't know much about him but you would imagine he, like Rafael when he joined, has a decent combination of both the offensive and defensive needs that should be found in a RB.

It is a similar situation as to the Buttner deal last summer. Evra was playing toomany games and being fatigued because of it and making mistakes regularly. We went out signed cover and surprise Evra has his best season in about 3 years.

Paso

08 Jun 2013 20:34:39
hi guys/ed's, long time since I posted but have been reading what u guys are talking about, I just want to know if fabio leaves do u think rafael will be happy its his bestfriend, I think if that happens then we will not see a happy rafael on the pitch (im not sure if the spelling wast rigth, is it pitch or picth) btw I will pray that four sir moyes, I hope he takes the treble since he has never won anything so I have a feeling that he will. a lot of manager's does win when they take over a top team ggmu, united 4 life:)zee

I don't think it would effect him too much. He has just had his best season in a United shirt after stepping out from his brothers shadow while his brother has been away from the club on loan to QPR. So I think he can handle being away from his brother.

Shappy

Rafael has always been the more favoured twin in the first team set up so I wouldn't say he's stepped out of Fabios shadow

Thanks guys, and it's good to bee back have been a little down shappy because of the pills the doc give's me. zee:)

09 Jun 2013 10:51:50
Sorry to hear that zee, hope your feeling better soon.

And locky, Rafael has always been considered the less talented of the two. The difference is when they joined Neville was in his mid thirties and Evra was in his mid twenties. So there was much more oppertunities for Rafael than Fabio. Also Fabio couldn't shake off the injuries. You also need to understand twin psychology. With twins there is always a dominant one and a submissive one. A leader and a follower. The leader makes all the decisions about what the two of then will do. Until the follower moves away from his twin he will always be in the shadow of him. Fabio is the leader of the two, but since Fabio was away on loan Rafael has been able to grow into his own man without being lead by his brother. And that has allowed him to mature and has ment he has been able to make the right back spot his own.

08 Jun 2013 19:36:46
Haven't posted for a while, but hardly a day passby without visiting this site.
Was curious to gather your views regarding Cristiano's refusal to extend deal few weeks back (as reported in most sites) and now asking for ridiculous amount- £34M per year which will make him the highest ever paid football (again as reported).
Does this mean he wants out of Real, so decides to ask for this ridiculous fee which will make even Real hard to meet his demand?
Or we all know how ambitious Cristiano can be- the best footballer and who knows even the highest paid footballer. So he is playing advantage of how Real need to keep him and reportedly interests from top teams, that Real offer him a package which meet his dream.

I personally feel he WANTS to be in a team where he is wanted and feels at home (though farfetched for United). But if he NEEDS to stay at Real he wants to make it WORTH.

I 100% believe that every rumour etc has been nothing more than a game to get a new massive contract.
Which is a bad thing to do to the club he has supported since a boy and was so desperate to join
Jred

Jred, I don't think Madrid have treated him all that well though in all fairness and I reckon he want to be at a club whee he is loved by the club, fans and players.

08 Jun 2013 22:35:43
ROONEY IS GOING NOWHERE!

IHaveNoName!

S**t has he put on so much weight that he now can't fit through the door frame out of his house?

Could we take the window out and crane lift him out?

09 Jun 2013 00:53:43
Not even on holiday? A bit harsh. MrE

08 Jun 2013 21:02:33
guys/eds, do u think if we get strottman (spelling) garay and rooney back in form and if kawaga play's like, like he did with dortmund and if we get another top player (mf) do u think we will be set to rock in the champions league it will be like signing 5 top players. zee:)

I think it could mean we're back in business yeah.

Providing Strootman hits the ground running.

although I think we might need another winger, whether Welbeck is the answer to that problem I don't know.

Zee,

welcome back, love you

Zee! My man, welcome back. Is it really you? How is everything with you?

The set-up you suggest (with one more attacking player able to play centrally and out on the right) would make us a significantly stronger side than we were this year. I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'set to rock' - but we'd certainly be in the top 4 club teams in the world (Along with Bayern, Real and Barca). That said, City, Chelski, Juve and Dortmund will not be too far behind.

Winning the Champions League is as much about tactical nous as it is squad strength though; and my gut is telling me that we won't be winning it next year unless Bale or Ronaldo are signed (both of which seem very unlikely at the moment).

redseven

08 Jun 2013 20:48:31
Reece Brown, John Cofie, Michele Fornasier, Luke Giverin, Luke Hendrie, Luke McCullough, Paul Scholes, Gyliano Van Velzen, Freddie Veseli.
All to be released, quite surprised at John Cofie, Van Velzen and Veseli bei g released thought they had potential especially Cofie and Van Velzen

I have to say I am surprised at Van Velzen, at one point I thought him and Blackett were likely to break through soon.

08 Jun 2013 20:06:33
Are there any updates on Thiago or Strootman? From what the Eds were saying it seems that fee's might have been negotiated (or in the case of thiago his release clause), but it was then a question of personal terms being met. With no news in the last week or so, does it seem like talks have broken down? It could also be things have slowed down if other clubs have started to make enquires too.

Best case senario we've got agreements in place, but are keeping things under wraps till moyes comes in next month. The signings would then officially be "his signings, " and be attributed to the start of his new era. Which would make sense in fairness.

Perhaps the signing of valera was a smokescreen so that we could book in some medicals and not alert the media to what might have been happening at the bridgewater complex.

I believe medicals will happen at the new medical centre at Carrington.

Thiago and Strootman are both away at the euro's so can only speak with agents.

I think any signings will happen once Moyes takes over.

Thiago and Strootman are both in Israel in the middle of the u21s so they would not be able to negotiate.
DHK

08 Jun 2013 18:24:59
England U21s 1-3 down and bring on Smeegle wtf at least Pearce should get the sack after this debacle

08 Jun 2013 20:18:07
Useless manager, he must have some good dirt on the FA to have kept his job this long. We have some good young players, who with the right management should at least be reaching semi finals. The future english players need better management for them to be able to become ready for the transisition from under 21 level to full international.

Germany have taken the under 21's seriously and as such have used it successfully to hone the skills of players such as Ozil, Khedira, Muller, Kroos ect.

We need to start taking this level serious.

08 Jun 2013 19:53:08
Roy Hodgson and Stuart Pearce, is it any wonder that no one gives a flying one about England. Utter pants.

Who's smeegle?

Andrew b

08 Jun 2013 17:45:59
Am I the only one who thinks that a Euro u21 championship is more important than two friendlies! Disgusting that half the team is missing due to two pathetic friendlies.

08 Jun 2013 16:47:30
Fellani or strootman? Thiago or fabregas? {Ed004's Note - Strootman and fabregas but would be very happy with Alcantara}

Strootman & Cesc for me. But would be very happy with Thiago.

Sydney!

Fabregas and Alcantara it's a no brainier
It's like asking Messi or Ronaldo?Ribery or Downing?
Downing being the Strootman in the pack
Dylan

Strootman and Thiago for me. Fabregas although a great player isn't as good as Thiago could be.

Yep, what Ed004 said.

I genuinely think Dylan is just a wind-up merchant. No one is this ignorant.

Sydney!

Lmaof

Dylan he is better than downing mate.

Shahram

Thiago and cesc
Nomidfield

08 Jun 2013 13:25:06
I don't get people on this site, most want Rooney out cause he's a tad overweight and had a poor season playing in positions he doesn't like but they're wanting to give Anderson another chance further up field cause he's been played out if his favoured position. What has he done compared to Rooney to merit this! I feel that if we were to make a major signing then we would see the old Rooney back, especially if ronaldo signed, he asked for the club to do major business the 1st time he wanted to leave and they never bar rvp so no wonder he questioned their intentions again. Tbh if your boss was making you do crap jobs like fergie done with Rooney you'd look for new work with a different company, I know I would. Rooney to stay an parter ronaldo, kagawa with rvp up top but all interchanging

To be honest. Rooney has handed in two transfer request which shows that he's not commited to us. Anderson has had he's chance and needs to go

Here here, totally agree with you, leave the lad alone, all the anti rooney supporters should just keep quiet grow up and get behind rooney and all the squad or simply go support and winge about another player at another team, cum on the lads number 21 cuming to a screen near you soon.
BIGAL REDFOREVER

Sure when he questioned uniteds intentions they went on to win the league and reach the champs lge final nothing wrong with uniteds ambition rooney just wanted 2 get more money and to say he wants to leave for a second time is a slap in the face

I think most peoples issue with Rooney is a personal one. He is in a position we as fans would kill for, yet he has totally disrespected the club and all at the club and by extension us the fans.

He has twice asked to leave and has shown up to pre season over a stone and and a half overweight. He plays slack lazy passes that concede possession and doesn't bother tracking back anymore. And when dropped for his lack of effort and form he sulks and hands in a transfer request.

He is the highest paid player in the clubs history, and he repays that with the shambles he showed last season. Yes he is still a very good player, and yes he can still win games for us, but his attitude is self destructive and will become destructive to the team in the near future. This is not a problem Moyes needs to be dealing with while he is settling in.

We've heard comments from De Gea, Van Persie, Evra and Carrick about how the players need to help and be supportive of the new manager, and what have we heard from Rooney? whining that he wants to play as the main striker next season. Nothing about the team or helping the new manager, just what Wayne wants. This shows his selfish nature, and his line of thinking. And it shows why imo he needs to move on.

Oh please. Its not all about money. All these guys have more money than most people. Rooney and all the top players want to win prizes. Its their ego. Nothing wrong with that.
He wants to stay in my opinion, but he also wants the club to buy the best so they can achieve success. What's wrong with that?
Would it better, if he said, I don't care what the club does, and just carried on taking his wages?
He knows he's at the best club around and wants us all to buy and be the best in the world, surely, that's what we all want?
Nomidfield

Shappy, you say Wayne is lazy and unfit, but despite his shape, Rooney was very fit, and he tracks back as much as any other player, though his form was poor. Yes he asked to leave once, because he wanted a better contract, but he was playing very well and he deserved a new contract, since he was playing on par with any player in the league, but not being paid similar wages to some of them. He had every right to want a better contract. Also he has not asked to leave again, he has asked whether he is wanted at the club. I do agree he needs to improve his fitness and he needs to improve his form to the level of our number 19 season.

NoMidfield we bought one of the best strikers in the world, he took Wayne's place.

We bought one of the best up and coming playmakers in the world and by the end of the season he'd taken Wayne's place. Would have done so earlier but for injury.

Wayne wasn't talking about buying quality when he was on about going to City he was on about money. He only came up with ambition and quality once United gave in and he realised he'd upset the fans.

Buying quality however has backfired for him and its pushed him towards the door.

08 Jun 2013 20:41:57
Gilly, Rooney was clearly not working as hard last season. And I lost count of the number of times I saw him give the ball away with a slack pass and then didn't attempt to chase it down and win it back. Two years ago Rooney would have chased that ball back until he won it back. Last season he played like he can't be bothered anymore. If he can't be bothered to put the effort in then kick his ass outta the door.

Shappy, yes Wayne did not track back as much this last season, but I think that is mainly due the fact he wanted to play as a striker, but had to play as a centre mid and he was obviously annoyed with Fergie and therefore did not have his usual desire. Also this probably lowered his confidence along with his comparatively poor form.

I think we will see a fitter and and better Wayne Rooney next season, especially if plays as a striker. I just think he needs to enjoy his football again, after all that is what Rooney is all about, enjoying his football, working hard, leading the team, and never giving up.

08 Jun 2013 11:44:49
Cabaye will have talks with Newcastle about his future when he arrives back from international duty.

Newcastle midfielder Yohan Cabaye has revealed that he would be interested in moving to Manchester United reports a web site.

The Frenchman will review his position at Newcastle during the summer break and may decide to move away from Tyneside.

If a transfer was possible, Cabaye has said that he would like the idea of playing for Manchester United.

Yes, of course [a move to United would be of interest], " Cabaye told Canal+. "I have liked this club for a long time, I like what they do".

Cabaye has spend two years at Newcastle and has become one of the clubs most important players following a string of impressive performances.

Newcastle are unlikely to want to let one of their best players go and Cabaye's comments are likely to worry Newcastle manager Alan Pardew.

Manchester United are known to be in the market for a central midfielder this summer and Cabaye could fit the bill.

New Manchester United manager David Moyes is said to be interested in midfielder's Luka Modric, Cesc Fabregas and Maurone Fellaini and the Scot may add Cabaye to that list as well, especially if he fails in his attempts to sign the other midfielders he is interested in.

Lots of players want to play for United. Why wouldn't they. Just because they say they want to play for us doesn't mean that we have an interest. And I doubt just because he's said he wants to play for us we'll suddenly have an interest. Sounds to me like something his agent has told him to say to test the waters.

Cabaye would be near the bottom of my list. As I see it, we need two central players but from two separate lists. A passing list and more of a box2box list:

Passers: 1) Cesc, 2) Modric, 3) Gundogan, 4) Thiago, 5) Cabaye.

Box2box: 1) Strootman, 2) Fellaini

Agree with Fresh on the list.

if cabaye come to united its not the end of the world. He is very good player, commited and will give us the chance to play in some game Powell-Cleverley-Januzag (i know. they don't play the same position, but carrick and cie can play other position to accomodate their integration in the team)

If you sign Modric or Cesc its wonderfull but, #23 #25 #44 won't get to many game IMO

JLBER84

Thiago in the passers, Modric should be top, hasn't Cesc already said he ain't coming to ot?

Cban

If we sign cabaye, it will be very disappointing. He had one good season at Newcastle, since then, he's done nothing.
Can we honestly say that he will be first team midfield for city, Chelsea, Bayern, real, barca?
If the answer is yes, then that's fine, but if the answer is no (and that is what I believe) then why should we have him in our midfield. I would rather give the youngsters a chance than buy cabaye.
Nomidfield

I agree we need two centre mids, we need an all round centre mid and a creative centre mid. For the creative centre mid, I would love to sign Fabregas or Gundogan, but I would be happy with Thiago or Modric, but not Cabaye. For the all round centre mid, I would love Vidal, who I think is probably the best in that position but I would be very happy with one of Strootman, Lars Bender, or Sven Bender but not Fellaini.

Jono.

08 Jun 2013 11:10:37
i don't understand the debate about strootman, if we were to buy him and no other midfielder I could understand, but if its him and say alcantara I would be ecstactic, I think he could do a similar job as martinez at bayern, then with alcantara shinji we are on our way, maybe give ando a go further upfield, with the youngsterz coming thru behind them like januZaj, it would be a big step in the right direction for me, fingers crossed we get at least these two players.
mick the red fireman.

Exactly, we are probably losing two midfielders this summer. Scholes & Anderson. I think Jones has replaced Fletch. Anderson has been pretty much forced to play a way that doesn't suit him. Strootman/Bender would be an excellent replacement for him. Any of Cesc/Thiago/Modric would be great to replace Scholes.

If Strootman and Thiago, then that would give us Kagawa/Thiago/Cleverley and Strootman/Carrick/Jones. I would be happy with that. Also plenty of option for a three-man midfield.

Sydney!

Agreed Strootman on his own would not be enough. Strootman + 1 would be depending on the 1. I'd prefer Fabregas over Thiago but that's my choice, however I can see that Thiago would be more likely (and cheaper) and is a more than good enough alternative to Cesc.

I fancy that we could go for a 4-3-3. To me the options are 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. So having more midfielders would be a blessing.

Are we selling Anderson?he only needs a proper pre season and run of games to get going again, we know the risk that involves but if it meant buying Fabregas and Thiago in place of my Dutch mate then I'd be very happy.
Don't worry about Strotman we've missed out on far better in the past but not done us any harm.
Robben
Essien
Mikel
Hazard
Ozil
Nasri
We sold Ronaldo and he'd probably be a Bal an dor winner now if he'd stayed
Remember quality not quantity
Dylan

Dylan

Why both Fabregas AND Thiago, I don't get it?

Surely we need to mix it up more with someone who is better physically and defensively?

08 Jun 2013 14:17:47
Dylan strootman is a quality player, you don't captain one of the better European national teams if your average. You seriously want to give Anderson yet another chance despite six years of consistent failure? I agree he's been played out of position and wasted as a central midfielder and would be better on the left of a three. But given his weight, stamina and injury issues over the last few years its a waste of a squad place in hoping that he comes good just because the new manager is a fitness fanatic. We'd be better off cutting our losses and replacing him. Mort

Honey badger sorry where on different wavelengths fabregas and Thiagos form of defence is something called possession they can close down when City out played us at home it wasn't down to physicall ball winners it was controlled pace possession and working harder off the ball than we did.
They both play at Barca who are masters and in busquet have a Carrick type to sit if needed.
Bayern are the exception but with pace and penetration in midfield they can be challenged
Dylan

Mort I'd agree wholeheartedly if the replacement was of the highest quality but the player you desire is on the same level as Darren Gibson (full international)champs league experience and that's fact so unless you want us to do what L, pool did when they lost Alonso and Mascharano and shop on EBay and end up looking to return dodgy stock once they've tried it on!
Then keep banging the drum
Dylan

Mort confused with your post I've not mentioned Anderson playing out of position just on his day he can look class but he needs to mature sooner rather than later or he will be replaced, an unfit lacking in confidence footballer won't fetch £100 so what use is that to Manchester United we need him firing doing something which as let him down and score 10 goals this season and we'd reap the rewards
Dylan

Thats a nice idea Dylan but do we want to copy Barca or do we want to develop our own way of playing. If we copy someone else then we will more than likely end up being a poorer imitation of them. Bayern played their own style and destroyed Barca. You need to play to your strengths not just copy what's working for others.

Also Barca don't play in the EPL which does need someone who can physically stand up to some of the opposition.

And Carrick is 31/32 next season. Long term he needs a replacement. Strootman is a great choice as his longer term replacement. But would also be a good option to play along side him in the short term.

We need a strong box to box type player who is just as happy diving into challenges as he is passing and running with the ball. We need a technically good physical presence in the mould of Yaya Toure as well as a great ball playing midfielder.

So say we sign Thiago as the ball playing midfielder. Who would you sign as the physically challenging presence? Who do you think is available and is better than Strootman?

Ha! Same level as Darron Gibson. I've heard it all now.

TK-Red

Dylan

I think we're closer to Bayern than Barca TBH and would be more successful trying to go down their route, particularly in the Prem. Not many teams have won major trophies playing tha Barca way, apart from Barca. They are masters at this and have a full squad of quality tika-taka-ers (or whatever lol) who make it work seemlessly. IMO the Bayern model is easier to adopt especially considering our current squad members.

I do understand that crunching tackles aren't the norm any more but having a player in the heart of midfield who can dominate other's physically and put in the occasional strong block/challenge is needed to balance out the creativity IMO - he does need to be somewhat of an all rounder though, the Makalele role is now obsolete.

I do agree that we are lacking in creativity too though so I would hope we sign 1 of Fab/Alcantara/Modric etc. to help with that just don't see the need for 2 considering we have Kagawa (and possibly Rooney) who can do this in the CAM position and Cleverly is also a backup for the CM position.

If we can get stroitman and one of, this go, modric or cesc, then surely that will be a good window. Especially, if we can add CR7 to that.
Nomidfield

Shappy your twisting my point I'm not suggesting we copy anybody's style I'm more than happy with ours but if we are fortunate enough to be in a position to buy 1. fabregas
2. alcantara
3. strootman
And can only have 2 then it would be in the above order and ALL top managers in Europe if in charge of the current Utd squad would agree

Dylan

TK-Red
Gibson whilst at Everton like P. Neville playing regularly is a good Premier league player most If not all agree with that.
But where not looking for a good midfielder where in the market for a Great
Dylan

Shappy apologise I didn't read all your post are you suggesting we copy man city's style?
We have in Jones who will be a future star at c/half who is a better option than Strootman Fletcher may just return and Carrick can play for another 3/4years at this rate so Strootman would be 30 by then
Hargreaves if only he'd stayed fit a true master
Pogba if only he'd seen sense twice the player
I could go on
If Strootman ends up in the EPL it will be with mid table side personally I think he will end up in Italy
Dylan

Strootman could become great though, Gibson never even looked like he could. Its a totally invalid comparison.

Dylan was on my phone so didn't want to double post so banged everything in 1.

Someone like Thiago would more than replace Anderson. You talk how signing Strootman would block the youth, but that's exactly what Anderson is doing.

You really can't compare Strootman to Gibson. Holland are in the top tier of European nations and Ireland are somewhere in the 3rd tier.

He's captained Holland, that surely shows something.

And Strootman wouldn't be replacing Anderson he's be replacing Fletcher in the short term and Carrick in the long term.

08 Jun 2013 20:36:53
I'm not saying copy City, I was just using Yaya you're as an example as he is probably the best player of that type and he happens to play in the Premier league and is one of the best players in the league which shows that this kind of midfielder is valued highly in this league.

Shappy

I would buy a Capoue with Thiago or Modric personally. Capoue would be better if we were to only buy one midfielder.

Shahram

08 Jun 2013 09:44:37
Eds, do you know who's alcantara's favourite choice of clubs if he moves this summer? Thanks {Ed002's Note - No idea.}

He will decide his future after the U21 european championships.
RED DEVILS

Lets hope De Gea has a little word with him :)

I think that's a possibility, however there are other Barca players there as well also having a chat.

DmR, I would rather Van Persie and De Gea have a word with Fabregas. I think there is a small chance of United signing him.

Gilly. I don't think Fab would leave Barca, I would love either one of them to be honest :)

08 Jun 2013 04:08:10
"REDFAITH

I will watch Strootman again as I don't like to assess on one 45 minute performance. I did see a couple of good defensive covering tackles and a good support of the attack but you have to consider that he isn't going to gain pace. So many have written on here they want us to change to play the faster pressing game like Dortmund yet want us to sign what I saw last night as more of a stroller

I am not saying he isn't a good player but there is a lot riding on the clubs decision on this and I am a little surprised that some suggest we have to buy two midfield players to make it work. There is also the focus and pressure on him once he becomes a United player.

If we are heralding him as THE player we need to be sure he has all the attributes needed

Red Man"

I don't think any one player bought can fix our midfield problems.

I definitely think we need two players in midfield to be bought to make it work regardless who we buy. Even if we buy Fabregas imo we need a Strootman type player. Fletcher, Anderson, Scholes will not be here next season and i'm definitely not comfortable with just having Carrick, Cleverley as the only two midfielders in the team and feel we need 4 proper CMs at least to challenge on all fronts. Carrick isn't getting any younger too. I'm sure you understand in midfield its more of a collective effort than just one man carrying the team. I also feel we need to switch to a modern midfield three (which could mean letting go of Rooney).

Strootman and a creativer midfielder like Thiago or Fabregas would do nicely but would be disappointed if JUST Strootman is bought.

REDFAITH

REDFAITH, exactly. Strootman would be part of the answer. Strootman alone is not the answer to our midfield. it's not that hard, but there are people that cannot grasp it is a squad game nowadays. We are short on midfielders and we need more than just Strootman.

Sydney!

Agree with Redfaith completely, Strootman plus a more creative midfielder like Alcantara would be excellent signings, exactly what we need. Strootman alone would be a bit of a worry but he does have a lot of the attributes many of us have wanted in CM for ages.

On Red Man's point on Stroot's lack of pace - I think the high pressing game is more about the front 4 having pace and closing down defenders/midfielders. Carrick/Stroot would be sat deeper IMO controlling the possession from the heart of the field. Much like Bayern play with high tempo up top but Martinez slot's in well behind them regardless of him not being quick. Schweinsteiger is an excellent player but not that quick either and it works well for them (I'm not saying Stroot is as good as either player just comparing their pace in the system they play).

Would love to see United sign Strootman, Alcantara and the best/fastest/skillfullest winger we can get our hands on. That would really take us a step forward IMO.

I haven't seen enough of Strootman to be able to assess whether he is good enough. In terms of his pace you don't have to be quick to play in central midfield but my first impression was that he looked more sluggish than most in that position. I recall similar discussions on Charlie Adam and his pace and I am not directly comparing the two. If we buy Strootman together with a Fabregas for example that is a less risky strategy on that I agree

People seem to be defending him before we have signed him yet I am just being objective on what I saw for 45 minutes

Our need is for top quality but I haven't seen enough to know if he is that level

Red Man

Red Man, agreed, but surely you trust the MU and the Holland set-up that they believe he is at that level?

I certainly wouldn't complain if we signed Strootman & Cesc to add to Carrick & Cleverley. With Jones for the tight games.

Sydney!

Sydney

United have made mistakes in the transfer market before haven't they?

You don't mention Powell I note, do you not feel he will make it?

Red Man {Ed004's Note - Yes but he has had a bad year due to injuries}

Ed

Agree Powell has had a disappointing season with injuries but he looks a talent and may be interesting if he can get a run or perhaps a loan

Red Man

I think he may get a loan Red Man after settling into the club this season.

MU have made mistakes of course, but Moyes & SAF have been scouting him.

He has captained the Holland side and I am sure RvP has given SAF his opinions of him.

Sydney!

I am not sure MU have made too many costly mistakes. Veron was top notch and it was a surprise that he never fitted in better. I thought Berbatov would have been a great signing, but he slowed down our attacks. Nani & Anderson were very highly rated when we signed them and they signed on very low salaries. MU have bought the little cheapies like Obertan, Diouf, Tosic etc and made the money back. I think as a whole we have done well with our buys. Perhaps unlucky at times. Hargreaves was just plain unlucky. I think Strootman would be a good fit and give Carrick the break he needs at times and when playing together he would rotate with Carrick going forward and staying back to cover.

Sydney!

07 Jun 2013 23:50:09
Laughable and embarrasing!
Messi. continues to break. records and improve. Is 25 and is already considered the greatest EVER player BY THE GAMES GREATS. Yet Disney

Messi is 25 and has won the last 4
Ballon d'OR, I think that tells a story

He's the best player I've ever watched live. Ronaldo and Zidane are/were incredibly special but I'd put Messi just above, taking into account his achievements and the level of quality he displays on a consistent basis. The fact he's only 25 is crazy. I saw someone further down said they could see him starting to fade now, I found that funny.

Look, putting aside who is the better player, I have to say that IMO winning the Ballon D'Or isn't what it used to be. Some awards these days can be a bit of a farce. You only have to look at the most recent FIFA Team Of The Year. I wouldn't judge the best player int he Premier League on how many Player of the Year awards he won so I cannot fairly do the same with the Ballon D'Or/FIFA World Player of the Year.

TK-Red

If Messi starts to get regular muscle injuries he could fade, especially as his acceleration past defenders is one of his key attributes. Also I would say Ronaldo is the better player because he is the more complete player, but Messi is more of a team player who has a better team around him.

07 Jun 2013 23:22:49
I think the strootman debate which seems to of been going on all day by the looks of things is similar to the cleverly debate which went on all summer and then all season.
Everyone has there own opinion but nobody will be proved right or wrong today the best to do is wait till the end of next season to judge.
Jred

I think we had best wait and see if we actually signing him, upto now its just rumours from person in the know blaggers on personter, I really hope we sign him would be great for us but I will start to judge when I see him in a red top.
mick the red fireman.

The Strootman debate is the same is the Cleverley debate from last season and the same applies. Strootman would solve 'part' of the midfield issues, not all, just like Cleverley will solve part of the midfield issues, not all. It is a squad game nowadays and we need two Cleverley type players and two Carrick type players. Strootman and Thiago/Cesc/Modric would be great.

Sydney!

Syd as I posted yesterday I would rather someone of the quality of fab modric hamsik.
I don't think strootman is the answer I don't think he will improve us that much or close the gap between us and the v best in Europe I also gave my reasons why
But that's just my opinion
I read down the page last night and that's all any body was really saying, I didn't see one post saying we shouldn't buy this lad.
For me the debate was how good he actually was.
Every time we are linked to a player he gets bigged up on this site you might think he's on the verge of being something special as you put it, I don't think he will reach them heights.
I guess we will find out next year if we sign him
Jred

Jred, Cesc does not play in the same position as Strootman.

Are you seriously suggesting just Cesc is enough?

Cesc, Cleverley & Carrick? We need more than that.

Sydney!

Personally I would want a Carrick type player (Strootman/Bender) and a Cleverley type player (Cesc/Thiago/Modric). Just Cesc will not be enough.

Jred, I guess your opinion isn't that different to mine. I would be disappointed if just Strootman was signed. We need two types of midfielder this summer.

Sydney!

Syd
footballers can play in more than 1 position.
cesc for me could play in a 4-2-3-1 along side Carrick and burst forward in much the same way gundogan does for Dortmund.
I'm not sure which position you think strootman plays as I've seen him play deep and much further up the pitch.
Do I think just fab is enough no I've never said said that but I would take fab over strootman or someone of the quality of him maybe modric.
For example I would take fabregas and thiago over strootman and thiago.
Like cleverly I don't rate strootman as highly as you do, I don't think he is on the verge of being something special.

I hope we buy thiago and a cm I would like the cm to be someone better than strootman. But that's just my opinion

I don't think strootman is that much better than cleverly and I think we need to buy a lot better quality than that to compete with Munich etc
jred

Syd
Again as I said yesterday I would prefer a busy player around Carrick a better version of cleverly, that type.
If you watch the Holland game I would take a player in the mould of holtby over a player in the mould of strootman
Which again as I said yesterday is one of the reasons I'm not convinced a strootman Carrick partnership would work
Jred

Sydney, I would agree with that, we need two centre mids. I would like one of: Strootman/ Lars Bender/ Sven Bender/ Khedira/ Vidal and I would hope for one of Modric/ Fabregas/ Thiago, though I would like to United go after Gundogan and Marchisio. I really think the club need to spend big, they need to sign the best players possible in centre mid. Hoping for Vidal and Fabregas/Gundogan, expecting Strootman and Thiago.

Agree with Syd here we need both types of player. Strootman to supplement Carrick's role and a better version of Cleverly e. g. Alcantara/Modric/Fab. If we JUST signed Fabregas what happens if Carrick get's injured?

Hopefully we sort out the midfield this summer, finally.

Jred

I can understand you rating Fab, Modric, Alcantara all above Strootman but surely those 3 offer similar attributes i. e. creativity, passing, technique? For me one of those 3 would be great as an improvement on Cleverly. But surely we still need someone with defensive ability, strength and industry to balance it out? Strootman plus one of those 3 makes more sense to me, he could take Carrick's role in the long term or we could even play a 3 man midfield with both plus 1 more technical player.

I'm a fan of all of Fab, Modric, Alcantara but I don't think we need 2 of this ilk.

We shouldn't even be tslking about Fabregas OVER Strootman as they are different players. The fact is we NEED a player in the style of Strootman whereas we could live without a Fabregas even though he would undoubtedly improve our side. Just like most others I would be delighted with a Strootman/Thiago improvement in midfield. Signing just one of them wouldn't be enough, sign both and we're laughing.

TK-Red

Jred, Strootman is a different type of midfielder than Cesc/Modric/Thiago. Strootman covers a lot of ground and puts in some good tackles. It isn't a case of Thiago or Strootman, they are different types of player. It's not a case of Cesc & Thiago over Strootman & Thiago. It would be Strootman OR Cesc/Thiago. It's irrelevant what positions they can play in, it's what jobs they can do and Cesc & Thiago cannot fulfill the jobs of Strootman. Strootman is a midfield enforcer, Thiago & Cesc are creative midfielders. We do not need two creative midfielders, we need an enforcer and a creative midfielder.

Sydney!

HB, exactly.

Sydney!

08 Jun 2013 13:08:54
Badger hits the nail on the head. What happens if we lose Carrick. We'd have been sunk this season. Strootman would bridge that problem. Also we'd have better options in the squad and more tactical flexibility than current. Who else is out there, that is AVAILABLE? Mort

Yep TK, Syd that's how I see it.

Exactly, City will play Yaya, Fernandinho & possibly Garcia against us. It would be nice to be able to match them with strength in midfield.

Sydney!

Strootman Thiago Carrick would bring a perfect balance to the midfield.

Strootman: Can tackle, Can pass, Can get up and down the pitch, Good influence.

Thiago: Great passer, Great touch, Good shot

We all know what Carrick can do

07 Jun 2013 22:47:37
Im seeing a situation were anderson, evra, nani and macheda leaving then strootman, fellaini, baines, garay, vermalen and gaitan coming in

Anderson £12m
Nani £11m
Evra £10m
Macheda £5
TOTAL SALE : £37m

Strootman £17, 7m
Fellaini £22m
Baines £15M
Vermalen £5m
Garay £17m
Gaitan £18m
TOTAL £84, 7m


TOTAL EXPENDITURE ON TRANSFERS = 84, 7-37
=£47, 7

08 Jun 2013 09:53:19
The only ones from that list will come in are Strootman and Baines
The rest aren't good enough for us

2 centre backs signed for what reason exactly? And who do you think will pay 5 million for macheda?

£10M for Evra? Not a chance. But I think Nani will go for more

I would be delighted if we got £20m back for Nani & Evra. We would save around £7m a season in salaries.

Sydney!

Why would we sign Vermaelen? Where would he play?

Ha, getting Vermaelen for 5 million and selling Macheda for the same price lol

07 Jun 2013 22:17:51
Very happy Friday evening all,
Finally we have made our first transfer of the season. Varela, I did not know him until today, but had checked around many youtube and looks he's a top top talent. Very focused, good support on the wing, quick, ok delivery, playing safe and solid football.
Next year, I hope he will cap a few PL games with cup games and be ready for 14/15 season. As much as I am excited about next season, I can't wait to see us building another superb 4 back line. Also, Januzaj is only 18 and won the reserve player of the year and he'd make his debut next season no doubt about that and in 2 years, I bet he'd make a hell of impact to the team. Zaha, next season will simply be a fantastic year for him, but then I think 14/15 will be his season to really blast his full potential.

Having said that, we know we need another winger and MF. I do think Strootman will do perfectly well and just need a couple more MFs coming in. Last year, although we bought RVP and Kagawa, especially RVP helped us regain our title, we know that we wanted a few more players last season: Wingers and MF. I think it will happen this summer and we will build strong foundation for the next 5 years of MU success under Moyes.

GO UTD!
JS

JS

Lol, google any player on YouTube and they will look good. No idea if he is quality or not but YouTube isn't the greatest reference point. Try it, google Garth Barry and ai'll bet you'll find impressive videos.