Manchester United Banter Archive March 08 2014

08 Mar 2014 23:41:13
West Brom may be struggling but what I liked the most today was the body language of all the United players (except for RVP). The team looked much more confident than in recent months.

RVP will be very difficult to replace, but I have to admit he looked like he didn't want to be there.

4th still looks a bit out of reach unless Arsenal cave in, but I think most of us will be happy enough if the team builds on today's performance and get the right players in the next window.

Rvp difficult to replace? U guys are just so good in making some1 god.
Wake up. He is here since 1.5 seasons but united were winning even without him. But he was not winning without united.

He clearly is showing arrogant attitude problem against Moyes.
I m not a Moyes supporter but even fergie wouldn't allow player power whoever he is.

So chill. Rvp is a little mean of united success. Not some1 without whom united would struggle for long.

08 Mar 2014 20:02:06
Looking at what style Moyes is trying to play (4-2-3-1) l think we are only going after maybe three players in the summer. A left back, centre half and mid fielder, with youth being promoted too as squad players. This will reduce wages and age profile and lose the deadwood.

Left Back Luke Shaw Centre Half Ezequiel Garay Centre Mid Toni Kroos

My word Centre half, very poignant was discussing with my dad and granddad (both brain dead but I love them) about 4231. Forgive me if I get this wrong Left half, Centre half, Right half, Inside left, inside right. I for one have no idea what they are talking about. They are ripping me for my lack knowledge, I'm looking for a home for them both.

I hope we go and get 4 or 5, LB, CD, CM*2 and AM/F. I have been saying for a while we have been moving to a 4231 and it seems to suit us. I suppose we will see when we are unable to play any of Janu, Rooney and Mata if we stick to it.

Grund that is harping back to when teams played 2-3-5
2 defenders
3 midfielder left half centre half and right half
5 forwards 2 wingers 2x inside forwards and centre forward

Even if rvp goes in the summer moyes will bring in a striker to replace him, a flexible 442 is the best we can hope for so 2 wide players to replace young and valencia who with a bit of luck will be on there way to another destiantion are a must in my opinion, modern 4231 formations just aren't going to happen under moyes so just forget about it!

Valencia in fairness could stay but Young and Nani will leave I hope

Paddy I think if moyes is moving to 4-2-3-1 then Valencia could be moved on. I don't believe he fits in with the above as he likes to hug the touchline. Not that I am saying he should be sold just that he doesn't fit and could be deemed surplus.

08 Mar 2014 18:49:41
Excellent win and something to build on. Nice to see kagawa coming on instead of the usual young.
I e been saying for a long time that we need to ditch the 442 and play more centrally and with more in midfield. We have a lot of attacking talent.
We could do a lot better and we'll see where we are when we've played Liverpool, olympiacos and city.

Kagawa is mostly non or under used in both fergie and moues era. I would agree to some extent that he is getting bullied and loosing the ball far to often in final third but still he provides that extra option for passing with his brilliant off the ball movement. which nobody provides. People see that he lost the ball creating something but they don't see that if kagawa is not there no other player is getting into those danger positions. So no question of loosing the ball. So what do people prefer? Never a deadly ball or some deadly ball resulting in sub lime goal?
Moyes really need to think in a broad way before Deciding to letting him go.

He must be played in a no 10 position behind Rooney. RVP showing attitude which will result in seeing him leave. But like this we are still batter attacking.

08 Mar 2014 16:59:39
Good win today. Its a bottom of the table side so I won't read too much into it. 3 wins in the next 3 games would completely change everything though. If only Moyes would have had this core 11 fit for the whole season we would have been in a much better position.

Like Sydney! I too noticed the slight tactical move for Fellaini to always drop off when Smalling had the ball to ease the pressure on him. Fellaini is starting to find his feet. Carrick was excellent. The second half was encouraging.

Someone suggested that the captaincy should have been taken off Vidic as soon as Moyes knew he was leaving and not doing so is a sign of "weakness". He must have known by about December end.

At that time, who should he have given it to? Evra, Giggs or Rio who themselves are leaving in the summer? Rooney, whose contract situation was very much unresolved then? RVP, who is at the club just for a year and a half? Nobody else other than these really strike me as a leader of the pack going forward and there exactly is the problem with this squad. It would have made no sense and there were much more important issues than captaincy. The way Moyes has handled it, to me shows that he is thinking long term rather than taking decisions for the short term.

We really need to stop nitpicking about Moyes. A rebuild over the next 2 or 3 windows and he will be just fine.

A more mobile player around Fellaini would benefit him and the whole team more. We also lack speed from the left and IMO we need an entire new left side. Griezmann and Shaw would be great.

{Ed004's Note - Benetia, Shaw, Gundogan and Griezman. A whole new left side as smalling and fellaini play on the right}

I am of the opinion that Rooney and Welbeck are much more in synch with each other, compared to Rooney and Van Persie. Our general attacking play is also - IMO - much more fluid and incisive.

RVP is undoubtedly a top player; but until we address the issue with the left side, and get a genuine top quality left-sided player with pace, I don't think RVP and Rooney can work. For me, Rooney, Mata and Kagawa, playing a fluid attacking trio behind the pace and power of Welbeck, represent our most effective attacking line up.

I thought we played some of our best football of the season in the second half. It was a genuine pleasure to watch. I just hope we stick with with that system for the rest of the season.

Very encouraging.

Performance today shows we need a left back one midfielder and centre back

08 Mar 2014 16:54:35
Very encouraging signs today. Disappointed with Januzaj's lack of involvement in the play, but it's pretty much straight forward that with Mata, Rooney and Robin Van Persie attacking through the middle, that's where most of our attacks will come from.

A young defense allowed us to maintain a reasonably higher line. Smalling was solid in defense, as he always is. Jones struggled a lot, and it's to be expected. It has been month since he played, yet alone start at the back. Another factor in his poor defensive showing is that he came up against a significantly stronger player. It's not everyday that a young kid with the strength and size of Jones will come up against a much larger, stronger individual. He needs more experience is such circumstances ( let's not forget the most talented young defender in the world did a pretty good job against Messi, and yet struggled against an individual bigger than himself in Drogba ). Evra was unconvincing, and rafael was brilliant at both ends. I think that Evans in for Smalling would allow us to play with a higher line, since he has much better ability on the ball than both Jones and Smalling ( who can be shocking at times with his lack of ball skills ) and we have our best defensive line.

In midfield, Carrick was decent, but even his distribution has gone backwards. His passing range seems non existent, and it's quite disappointing. Fellaini was very, very solid. he tackled, produced a game high number of interceptions, carried the ball forward, won headers, and proved that despite his size, he does have some skills on the ball ( his pass to Mata on the wing ). His passing was crisp and steady, and he created 2 goals.

Van Persie and Rooney tried to look for each other more than usual, but there interplay was practically non existent. They are too similar, and with the added freedom that Rooney is enjoying under Moyes, him and Van Persie are practically playing in the same position. I'm still of the opinion that Van Persie should be dropped because we need balance in the team more than anything.

Januzaj was playing too wide, and should mostly be played on the right imo. He is great on the ball, and creative. He has plenty of good attributes, but run and cross is not one of them. he should be covering for Mata on the right, and replacing him when/ if Mata moves infield.

The Kagawa substitution is what pleased me the joint most. With Young not going on international duty, he would have seemed like the more logical sub especially because it seemed like a very physical game, and Kagawa might not play to his best in such circumstances. But he came on, looked fitter and sharper than in the last couple of weeks, and a central attacking line of Rooney, Mata and Kagawa might be very narrow, but there are plenty of goals, vision and creativity in it. Maybe his performance against Olympiakos, and for japan has started to persuade Moyes that he can make the most out of kagawa like he is doing with Mata. Welbeck looked good when he came on, with his constant movement, pace and running behind the defense or down the channels creates space for Rooney, Mata and kagawa.

All in all, I think we have just found our best lineup. Evans, Smalling and Jones should be the starting defenders, Rafael a must when he is fit. Evra unmovable for a lack of better alternatives.
Carrick, Fellaini in midfield is the best partnership, but Cleverley can come in for Carrick when needed ( hopefully against smaller teams ) and in Fellaini he would have a mobile, robust midfield partner that he might be able to connect with.
The attack should consist of 5 players, 4 of them starting every game. Rooney, Van Persie, kagawa, Mata and Januzaj. It will most likely be Kagawa and Januzaj fighting it out for one spot, but I would love it if we used the following games to experiment a wee bit ( not enough to upset the balance, like late in the game ) and try Rooney as a striker, with Kagawa, mata and Januzaj ( left-middle-right ) in a narrow formation, with Fellaini and Carrick providing a solid base for the full backs to attack and give width.

P.S : the sight of Moyes urging Evra and Rafael to get forward might be the best thing I've seen this season.
And how about that third goal though.

{Ed004's Note - I agreed with everything you said except dropping RVP he is our best player and the team should be built around him I'd drop Rooney before RVP as we have Mata and Kagawa to play in Rooney's position both arguably better. And lastly Smalling alongside Evans. I don't see how you can justify dropping Smalling instead of Jones. When playing at CB Smalling has been much more dominant in the air, more of a leader and far better positionally. His technical ability and composure will improve with game time}

Smalling and Jones deserve a run of games. When Jones gets 2-3 more games behind him he will be better and Smalling would only improve, especially with an out ball (Fellaini). I don't think Smalling and Jones would do any worse than any of the other CB's we have. The only way you know if they are good enough is to play them. I was also impressed with Smalling being so vocal today. It was weird watching him order the defence around. He did it well though.

{Ed004's Note - I am all for giving them time until the end of the season and then make a judgement call. Just think ATM Smalling edges it for me}

Ed004, Smalling is a more solid option than Jones. He's not as talented or as good on the ball as Jones, but he has a calmer head, and more experience. Jones edges it for me simply because he has a lot more potential. wouldn't mind seeing any two of the young trio though ( Smalling, Evans and Jones ).

As for the Rooney Van Persie debate. I think we should have got rid of Rooney at the end of the season, but since Moyes seems to believe Rooney can fart rainbows, that's not going to happen. I think with our attacking midfield options, we should be playing with one striker and an interchanging front 3 behind him. Now for a starting striker it has to be one of Rooney and Van Persie. Moyes rates Rooney very highly and there is no chance of him leaving, so it has to be Van Persie left out.

Don't get me wrong, I believe Van Persie is the better striker, but Rooney is undroppable and there is no evidence that they can play together.

{Ed004's Note - I agree with the Rooney assessment not so sure about Smalling and Jones though}

Ed004, so you believe Smalling is more promising/talented than Jones?

Fair enough if you do, we would disagree on it though. I think Jones in the long term can be viewed in the Terry/ Vidic category, while Smalling can be a very good center back, hust not that class. He lacks football education due to him not being trained in a top class academy, and his shortcomings on the ball are not easy to get over. Jones' touch is hit and miss, yet he possesses a much much better overall technique.

I think Jones will be a class above Smalling and Evans, which is why he should be used the most often in defense, and let him improve. Smalling is more solid/ stronger than Evans, who is more intelligent, experienced and better on the ball. Depending on the opponent, I'd let one of them partner Jones.

{Ed004's Note - it's a hard one to call. Do you let them both become regulars and over time become a potentially world class partnership or do you sign a more experienced and accomplished centre back this summer? I think Moyes won't risk it and will go with the latter}

Ed004, the season is long and hard, and every player will get plenty of opportunities.

I think that we might need to sign a reliable defender, simply because our current bunch get injured too often. I think they have the ability to be top class center backs, but their fitness is questionable.

Therefore, until the end of the season, I would have made no decision. A lot would rest on young Michael Keane's shoulders. If he has yet another good loan spell, and proves he's good enough for a 15-20 games a season squad player, I would sign no one. If it's too early for him, than we would have to sign someone. Smalling is rarely injured, but that cannot be said about Jones and Evans.

Id buy a reliable player, experienced, just neither young enough to need time to learn, nor expensive enough to be a must in the side. Garay would be great, and if, with time, Smalling and Jones prove to be better defenders than he is, than he can just be put on the bench.

And since he would not be really expensive, it gives us more funds towards buying a left back ( none would cost less than 25 mils imo ), and a great central midfielder ( liked the look of the Witsel/ Fellaini partnership ). Vidal, Pogba, Veratti and co would start with 40 mils, while Witsel would probably necessitate that much. Gundogan and Kroos would not be really expensive.

Anyhow, such a summer would cost anywhere between 60-80 mils, which would leave us enough funds to sign any ridiculously overpriced talent there is on the market ( Draxler is the safest bet, but Goretzka and Max Meyer from Schalke are not half bad. )

{Ed004's Note - I agree with everything you have said there mate}

Cheers Ed. Though I would like to know your opinion about Evans, Smalling and Jones.

Imo Jones is the best one ( most talented ), but the least consistent ( still young though). He is better on the ball than Smalling, and stronger than Evans. Evans and Smalling are pretty similar in terms of potential. Smalling just shades it defensively, but Evans is much better on the ball making him a superior all around player atm. Smalling is younger though and might end up being better

{Ed004's Note - I would agree with that assessment of each player}

08 Mar 2014 15:35:46
Can you put this on the Banter page ed, it's not exactly a team I put on here.

I think we should leave RVP on the bench for the Liverpool game, something is clearly bothering him and he doesn't look right.
As soon as he went off the team started playing better (maybe coincidence?) and we kept the ball well and made more chances.

id play
rooney
kagawa mata januzaj

or
welbeck
januzaj rooney mata

{Ed004's Note - Tbf the team started playing well once they gained confidence from the second goal I though RVP was good today showed a lot of team spirit running round closing boys down held ball up well etc}

It had nothing to do with Van Persie going off. Welbeck directly replaced Van Persie, everything else stayed the same.

We need to play our best players, we know what rvp is capable off he needs games to get fully match sharp.

I think that once fellaini rvp Rooney and Mata get a few more games under there belt you will see a better united team .
Never mind all this moyes has lost the dressing room rumours, once we can put 11 half decent fully fit players on the pitch you will see a better united .
Add a few more additions in the summer and we might be ready to challenge Chelsea and co

It's amazing what a little bit of confidence can do for a team. Once that second goal went in MU looked a different side from what we have been seeing this season. Hopefully this confidence will follow them into the next game. Still someway to go though, we are still lacking finesse. Hopefully we can have a good run in and like Jred said, add some players in the summer and put this season behind us.

I just think we lack pace, and Welbeck came on we moved the ball quicker and looked dangerous.

I don't think it is any secret goals change games.
We have key players getting much needed games under there belt ( rvp, fellaini, Mata and Rooney ) watch moyes become a better manager now he has some quality players ;)

"Add a few more additions in the summer and we might be ready to challenge Chelsea and co"


I agree and think 5 players (2cm, lw, wb, cb)and we will compete for all honours again. I still believe we need 2 cm to have options in terms of best combination depending on the opposition.

We will not win anything until we get a back 4 that is hard to score against. we will have our bad days offensively but what has killed us is how many goals we have gifted teams this year.

All season we have not been able to get that two goal cushion, when we got it today it was like a breath of fresh air, even for us fans. When the 2nd goal went in the whole team was lifted and it seemed like it was easy, when this season it's been anything but easy. I don't think Moyes was the best choice for the job, but he can only improve. It seemed the players had more license to roam today. The fullbacks were much higher up the pitch than usual. To be fair we have a good side on paper, I have been saying it all season that we are a much better side, just playing poorly. Hopefully this is the start of the fightback. Regroup, add some players and start again next season.

Syd
Everybody knows we are a better team than what we have shown this season, although we are no where near as good as some would make out .
I'm not sure moyes is the right man for the job and as I have said in the summer he will have to improve and develop as a manager and prove he can make the step up. This will take longer than a few month.
But some of the things posted on this site about moyes have been ridiculous IMO especially when you look at the task of following fergy and the group of players at times he has had to choose from.

I have no doubt that with a fully fit squad moyes will suddenly to some fans on this site look a better manager, in the same way he looked a poor manager with key players out .

It's the same mentality that saw people call for Rooney to be sold or rvp to be dropped at the moment .

Watching Chelsea, it would seem that if you have a settled defence you are halfway there. They haven't looked like scoring and they don't in many games, but they tend to concede very few and they see out wins. The football is dull, but they are getting results. I think this is what Moyes wants. He doesn't want to look flash, he wants to see out 1.0 wins and for me that isn't the way we are. To implement this style you need to be a bigger character. There is none bigger than Jose I guess, but I think Moyes is finding it hard to implement his style of play and some players are dead against the idea of it. I didn't want him to be manager, but he is now and he will be given time. I hope he proves us all wrong.

Chelsea are third highest scores in the epl.

It will take time for moyes to make united his team after fergy was at the club for so long .
I'm sure he understands what is expected at the club and understand that more than seeing out 1:0 wins is required .
The team needs rebuilt and moyes needs to put his stamp on it, all of this will take time.
I'm sure moyes understand that what worked at Everton will not work at united.
Like I have said I think some of the things posted about moyes is ridiculous when you take everything in to account .

Yeah, I'm not saying Jose only wants to win 1.0, just that he is more than happy to grind out 1.0 wins, unlike City for example who go for the jugular and try to beat teams 5.0. Moyes will have to adapt for sure and I hope he does realise MU are not Everton. No one wants to see us grinding out 1.0 wins at home to Fulham. To be honest the players that he is interested in are top players which is encouraging. At least if Moyes didn't work out, the next manager would have top players at his disposal.

08 Mar 2014 15:14:23
Wayne Rooney has become the 1st player in Premier League history to record double figures for both goals & assists in 5 different seasons.

08 Mar 2014 14:40:20
Thought we looked like a complete team for one of the first times this season! I did feel that rvp looked a bit lost however, doesn't seem like his heart is in it anymore! Sad to see after the passion he showed for us last season!
All in all a really good game though :) good to keep another clean sheet away from home.

08 Mar 2014 14:37:42
CTR

This is for your young Red Evil! Quick recovery man!

08 Mar 2014 14:32:05
Fellaini's done well today, starting to look more the part and should get even better with a run of games .

08 Mar 2014 14:13:28
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but when Smalling gets the ball, Fellaini drops deep to receive the pass from him. This is clearly due to Smalling's passing troubles and to be fair it has worked very well thus far.

08 Mar 2014 12:59:03
Delighted with the line up today. Finally get to see the team many of us have wanted for a long time (apart from pre Mata of course). Best available team in my opinion. let's hope we do play 4231 and go all out for a win.
Hope the performance today finally shows what we can really do. Time for the REAL Manchester United to stand up and show what they can do.

It will be a good win if we can hold on, WBA at home are a good side, just as Chelsea, Liverpool, Everton & Arsenal. They caused City a lot of issues too.

08 Mar 2014 11:06:47
Hey guys .

I am so glsd to hear about ctrs lil one, its so magical when you hear about things like that . I hope your mrs is fine. it mustve been tough for the mother . stay strong and believe in god.

singh

08 Mar 2014 09:36:35
Hi Guys

I have just caught up on the posts and I am so pleased to read that CTR's little man is progressing.I totally agree with Chris that at times like this all football fans become 1 and that's exactly how it should be.
All the best to you and your family Chris.

Hey Chris

I've been offline for a couple of days so only just seen your update on the progress of your littleun and it brought joy to my heart and tears to my eyes. Great news - best wishes going forward to your and your wife and of course the 'little Red Devil'

08 Mar 2014 06:50:49
Lots of debate yesterday about Arsenal's fall. I started the season thinking City were favourite but right now my money is on Cheslea, if they get a result this weekend. That would put them 9 points clear and they would only have 9 games left. City have the games in hand but have to squeeze them in and Jose knows what he is doing. On paper, City are the better team and squad but Jose has done this year what we did last year! found a way to get results. His options up front are not great - imagine if he signs a stellar CF this summer. I'm predicting the top 4 as Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal. I think Lverpool will get enough points from their big games whereas Arsenal won't.

City will have three games in hand and if they win them all, they will be top. Chelsea will remain in the UCL and City will not so there will be just as much congestion for each side. City play Villa and Sunderland at the Etihad. I'd expect them to win them, not sure what the other postponed fixture is? Can anyone help?

07 Mar 2014 23:58:40
ctr glad to hear about your son I have two daughters both born premature one is 18 and the other is 22 take plenty of pictures and dvds because they grow so quickly and I am reminded all the time that I sound like my dad good luck