Manchester United Banter Archive September 08 2014

 

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08 Sep 2014 21:37:34
In reply to the who would you sell debate. In my opinion Rooney in a heart beat, there is a misconception he is a prolific striker. Go and check out his career stats year on year without penalties, you will see he is not a prolific striker. Considering the amount of chances we created over the period he is actually very wasteful. He has had two stand out seasons and that's it. He has poor tactical discipline, both England and united change their systems to fit him in which is insane. He is a player who lives on his reputation and marketability which we created for him.

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I'm not his biggest fan but I think that's very harsh indeed, he has immense talent, he will probably be top goalscorer for both club and country and that's not down to us or England, we haven't created an image for him he's worked very hard to get to where he is today, he's adapted to many roles and been rubbishd about the place for both us and England to accommodate other players or lack of players, put him up top and he will score. He's a very good finisher from anywhere within 25 yards and for a short player he's very good in the air. Cut him some slack.

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I'm still not a 100% made up mind on Rooney? I used to hear players ex players n managers saying he was world class and never really see it but when I watch him now I see his 1st touch isn't great but his movement n passing is good? Take tonight's game he'll get slated but anything good that happened he was involved in and him and shaqiri were the best players on the pitch without Rooney showing it as much as shaqiri? Now he's got di maria n falcao to play alongside we will see if his pleas for world class signings help him show his class and think it will? He's not one of my utd greats but for a young kid watching football there's not many better for his work rate and attitude? He's England n utds striker do he'll always get stick n criticised but sometimes I think a little unfairly? My two peneth worth!

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08 Sep 2014 23:59:16
United99,

If he gets any criticism for tonight it will be unfair, he was one of the best players on the pitch, always involved and looked top class. Best game he's played so far this season.

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Hes just been made club captain. he isn't going anywhere. and he certainly isn't going to be dropped for Falcao/RVP/Mata.

they will have to fit in around him that i'm sure of

like it or not, you don't make a player captain if you don't think he's capable of playing every game

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09 Sep 2014 09:25:05
feel sorry for rooney tbh. when england or utd play bad its rooney's fault, when they play well its well so he should! he may not be as prolific as some of the strikers, but take last night, he always gets involved with the build up play and he gets a fair share of assists. I just think if his name was roonetello or roonaldiniho the press and everyone else would be up his a***. this country does love to build somebody up then smash them back down after all.

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09 Sep 2014 11:09:09
Mate, I think the press have over-hyped him precisely because he's English, and not a foreigner.

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I personally fail to see how he has been over-hyped? Considering the press, United fans, ABUs and anyone in sight has had a go at him ALWAYS. This is now becoming an oxymoron, we say he is overhyped and stick our boot in simultaenously. Well United fans and all that. Go on Wazza break their hearts and be our top scorer ;-).

Deeps.

P.S - Stevie, not directed at you my friend

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09 Sep 2014 15:52:29
And Deeps, mate, my point wasn't directed at him specifically - he's just another in a long line of young English lads, that the English press have built up to be the next big thing. It's Sterling's go at the minute.

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Stevie
if he gets the goal record for united and england will he not of been the next big thing.
in the early days he was hyped up and I can understand why, he was the best young player about and looked like he could go on to be a great.
while he progressed in to a top top player he has been overshadowed by messi and ronaldo and probably never quite reached the heights he would of liked.
That said when he hangs up is boots and people look at what he has won and achieved I think people will accept he has been a great player.
well except beast

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09 Sep 2014 19:21:05
Jred, I'm not a big fan of comparing goalscorers or other positions from different eras. Two totally different games. Also, internationally, there are many more games now, and England haven't been over-blessed with good strikers in his era. James Milner won his 50th cap on Monday. James feckin Milner! 50 caps!

Notwithstanding that, it would still be a great achievement for him to attain those records.

When he burst onto the scene, I genuinely thought the boy would go right to the very top, possibly the best of his generation. But for some reason, or reasons, he got left behind by Ronny and Messi.

In fact, I think there's a whole raft of players that have passed him now, never mind Ronny and Messi, including the likes of Bale, Di Maria and Robben, players who I genuinely love watching, and consider real game-changers.

This isn't to rubbish his achievements, which are many. But I really don't think he's helped himself over the years, which, as Deeps says, is manna from heaven for the British press.

I may not like some of the things he's done over the years, but as long as he brings something positive to the team, just like any player, then I'll get right behind him. I think his actions though, have alienated some fans, including myself, to the point where I'd always consider him a top player in his prime, but without having any of the affection for him, that I hold for other Utd greats.

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Stevie
You thought he would go to the very top, so did I, so did the press .
for what ever reason he never quite made it so i'm not sure he was over hyped because he did look a special talent, he just never reached the level many thought he would .
I think he has had to live up to that expectation and that's one of the reasons he gets a hard time of some, they always expect him to be better.
i thought he was our best player last year but was still well below what you would expect from him.
so imo he was our best player but had a poor season, if welbeck had the same season performance wise I would of thought he had had a good year
i fully agree he has let himself down at times and can see why some don't like him .

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08 Sep 2014 18:04:46
Hi Guys

I was talking to a mate over the weekend and I was saying that when I was a kid (35-40 years ago) an England game was a big event and I couldn't wait to watch them.I have to say that things have changed drastically.Don't get me wrong I am very patriotic and I am proud to be an Englishmen but I have to say I had very little interest in the game against Norway.I am struggling to get excited about tonight's game.People on tv are saying we will do well to get a draw, Hello this is Switzerland not Germany.
In contrast I can't wait until Sunday to see United.I hate it when there is an International break as we don't have a game for 2 weeks.Even though we are not doing so well at the moment its United that gets my football juices going certainly not England.
That said I will still cheer if England score tonight and hopefully win.

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I am very much of the opinion that most weeks should have two domestic games (other than CL teams) and that the season should finish a few weeks earlier. Then have an international season for say 4 or 5 weeks. That way the players would gel more for their countries making the standard of football better and it also wouldn't disrupt the important football.

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I have very little interest in England and it was lessened when Beckham, Scholes, Butt and the Neville's were regularly booed by the England fans. The game against QPR can't come quick enough.

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"This is Switzerland not Germany" the same Swiss team that had a better world cup than England and the same Swiss team that is ranked 11 places above England!

England are a shocking team and how you have any expectations for them to do well is beyond me!

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As a side note, we could all do Roy's job and get paid as much as he is.

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08 Sep 2014 19:46:17
Fresh, I have always thought that, although my idea was to have 2 dedicated international periods of say 3 weeks. Same principal though.

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I just don't think that ANYONE wants to see the domestic season distupted. There is nothing worse than thinking there are games only to realize England are playing.

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Every World Cup, we go into it with great expectations and come out with the realization that the English team isn't very good.

Interestingly enough, according to Soccernomics the team has been remarkably consistent for decades, winning the exact same % of games. The book also claims that one of the issues with English soccer is that recruitment is almost exclusively from -and please don't give me a hard time over this - the working class. Traditionally middle class payers were viewed with suspicion if not derision. The writers based this proposition on a study of the occupations of the parents of recent England internationals. The conclusion is that a large part of the population is not being tapped. They also maintain there's positive correlation between high athletic and academic achievement. Make of that what you will.

They also had a lot to say about the inferiority of English coaches/managers and the reasons. (For me Hodgson was the main culprit for us coming home early this summer. How can you play Italy and give Pirlo the freedom of the park. Did we not learn anything from the last time we played Italy in a big tournament?)

As far as England is concerned, we perform consistently and in accordance with our population adjusted for economic wealth. And unfortunately we tend to do so with a dreary lack of passion imitated by United last season.

Give me the premier league any day - come what may.

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To be honest its mainly the press that make out we are capable of winning it. without sounding negative it was obvious we were never going to get far in Brazil. England are miles behind many a team in world football.

as peashooter put above I agree with re the premier league, I no longer get bothered by international football.

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England could go win the euros Rooney get player of the tournament and hit the winner in the final he'd still get booed at every stadium.

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09 Sep 2014 19:26:15
As a Celt, I really struggle to understand this apathy and ambivalence towards your national team.

I'm afraid it only serves to reinforce the lazy stereotype, that the English just aren't as passionate and patriotic when it comes to supporting their teams.

For most Scots and Northern Irish (I don't know any Welsh people, personally), football and rugby teams are an extension of our nationhood. We can't imagine a situation where we have to be told to sing our national anthem.

But then, maybe you lot are just a lot more grown-up :)

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08 Sep 2014 17:56:10
Hi Guys

Eds or anyone else could you tell me if Falcao has been issued a work permit yet.If not is he likely to get one in time for Sunday.Surely he should get one quite easily.

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08 Sep 2014 10:40:58
Riiiigggghhhtttt.

In that number 10 role, either rooney or Mata has to be sacrificed, OR, RvP suffers for Rooney to have a place up front.

I think we all agree on this, because Falcao would be a definate starter, question is, who would you rather get rid of?

RVP
Rooney
Mata

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As much as I believe Rooney has peaked a season or two ago I would sell Mata. The next 3 months will be important to Mata, RVP and Rooney.

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Rooney for me, rvp and falcao are both miles better strikers, mata is a better number 10 IMO so it's another brainer

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Rooney
Mata
RVP

In that order. Rooney would struggle to play for Newcastle if you consider his form during 2014. Most players that have been living off their reputation are found out far quicker, the problem we had was just as the penny dropped with SAF, Moyes was his replacement. Rooney lifted his performances for a couple of months to give us supporters hope that a corner had been turned, but alas it was not the case and really it was a new deal that motivated him by the looks of it.

Tonight & QPR games are crucial for Rooney. I hope he finds a performance, but that hope I have every week is turning more and more into a sad realisation - he was a man before his time. End of last season, the world cup, this season, I really can't remember one half decent performance from him.

I sense an LVG press conference soon: "Wayne and I have talked and we have decided that the captaincy has come at the wrong time for him and he needs to focus on his own game rather than trying to do too much for others", Hodgson will take longer to U-turn because he is far too soft.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but I think the writing is on the wall for Wayne.

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08 Sep 2014 12:52:25
I'm going to come in on the other side of the coin and say that I believe that RvP may be the player who makes way on a regular basis, that isn't to say I believe he will leave.

I think his injuries will hold him back a lot and he will rotate with Falcao in the team. I don't believe him and Falcao would make a very good strike partnership together.

Plus anyway I think this is really going to create some competition for places in key positions which can make us a very formidable opponent.

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08 Sep 2014 13:01:30
Rooney hands down. Van persie should be alright for another two years as Wilson gains experience and if falcao is a success and signs permanent we only need another rotation option.

Hopefully Mata does succeed but we have di Maria and januzaj who can play in the hole.

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08 Sep 2014 13:01:56
databass has hit the nail on the head with his final paragraph. It is a squad game, the squad needs to be brilliant to win a league title or at least challenge, and our squad is getting there, we have probably the best strike options in the world.

It is tough for LVG but what a selection headache to have. A few weeks ago nobody would have considered dropping RVP as he is one of our best players, now he has competition and will need to perform every week in order to keep his place.

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I wish people will get off the back of Rooney and let's see what he does, he might even surprise you. Beast, you mentioned his form in 2014, but for most of last season, he was our best outfield player.
The season before he scored over 20 goals and made a load of assists. And yet people are writing him off as if he is 40 years old.
Stop believing what you read in the media etc, they are all anti United and have been hounding him since he spoke out about the England fans for booing the team.
He is a United player, so let's give him the benefit. For what it's worth, I think Mata and RVP are the ones in danger.

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08 Sep 2014 13:24:56
We basically have 5 players fighting for 3 spots. RVP, Rooney, Falcao, Mata, Januzai. I don't think that's too extreme and they will all get plenty of minutes even without European and League Cup football.

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08 Sep 2014 13:26:53
I would sell RVP, his attitude last season was disgusting just because he didn't like the manager and at 31 he would be playing less and less.

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It will be interesting to see how rvp and falcao work.
Both are 9s both have a similar game and play the same areas.
I wonder how rvp feels about being overlooked as captain and then we buy a new star player that plays his position

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08 Sep 2014 14:40:34
So let's give him the benefit , eh No Midfield? Does that thinking apply to all Utd players?

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08 Sep 2014 16:22:06
Looking at our forward players as a whole, we have Di Maria who is quality enough in the left CM position, left wing or number 10. We have Januzaj who can play left or right wing or could be a great number 10 in time. We have Mata who is a quality out and out quality number 10. I'm going to totally ignore Young and Valencia for obvious reasons. Then up top we have RVP and Falcao who are out and out goal scorers. Then we have Rooney who, in my mind, is no number 10, unless Mata, Di Maria and even Januzaj are injured. He is no wide player or CM player either, he is a striker, but one who is not of the same quality as RVP and Falcao in that role. We also have Wilson who has all the ability and attributes to be a truly top class striker if he carries on developing as he has been.

Therefore of all the players, in my mind, Rooney is the odd one out, when you look at the quality each player has in their best positions, IF we were to get rid of one. I don't see LVG selling him though, unless his form doesn't pick up for the rest of the season, as he has been shocking so far, like quite a few.

Also, did I read right? Nomidfield asking people to give someone the benefit of the doubt and get off their back? You can't say that for one player/manager and not another fella, or it starts stinking of double standards. Doesn't matter who or what the situation.

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Brendan he is also our captain while RvP, Falcao, Januzaj and Di Maria are not


He's the odd one out there too ;)

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No-Midfield - It's nothing to do with what I read, it just so happens I have been saying this for a long time now and the mass media are finally jumping on my pre-existing band wagon.

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08 Sep 2014 17:15:44
Mumbai, he got lucky with the captaincy in my eyes. Wasn't a great deal of choice. RVP too injury prone, Carrick got injured just before it was announced which made it difficult for him, Jones too young, Fletcher won't play enough, De Gea too young, Evans not good enough. Also, LVG said he wanted a British captain so that narrowed it even more. Doesn't make it easy for LVG if Rooney's form doesn't pick up and he ends up benched a lot. I just don't see him fitting the 'Philosophy'. Time will tell I guess.

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Mata imo should be a definite keeper, such a professional to the game, honest player and has helped translate orders from lvg to players such as di mara, so beside the fact he is an immense football talent, he is an absolute perfect representation of what a utd player should be

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Of course stevek. Aren't you the one always telling us to get behind the team? So get behind the team, all the team.

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08 Sep 2014 22:03:54
Mate, I'm not the walking inconsistency on this site. I'll not take any lectures from you on supporting the team, after some of your posts over the last few seasons. Fellaini? Hope we lose to Liverpool? Remember some of those?

I don't care who the manager is, or who the players are. I'll not turn on them before half-time in a match.

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09 Sep 2014 09:55:19
Anyone replying to this post thinking that any of these players should be sold must be under the impression that we will not have any injuries or squad rotation this season and will only use 11 players. Unbelievable

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