Manchester United Banter Archive December 09 2014

09 Dec 2014 17:55:41
I thought I'd give it a day to see if it looked any better after some reflections. Sadly not. Rooney misses 1 game wi injury and suddenly looks very rusty again. Other than his free kick he was awful all night. Rojo also looked like a accident waiting to happen every time he got the ball, and Fellaini reminded us why he got so much stick last year. As others have said, why do we keep passing backwards? There were times when we were in the final third and suddenly we had passed it back to DDG. It was also interesting that, for a variety of reasons, the starting 11 didn't feature any of this year's signings. Hopefully, Herera will cement a place, Shaw will stop picking up knocks, Di Maria will slot back in, andFalcao will finally get fit.

But hey, we won and are 3rd with a host of players to come back.

Final point, Michael Carrick is massively underrated. He never moans, plays pretty much every game (when fit) and keeps things moving. I think he and Hererra could work very well together.

AJH

Rojo started as one signed this year

09 Dec 2014 18:50:47
Got to agree on Carrick - he has never been fashionable and yet again a section of our fans have talked about selling him or that he is too slow etc. He is a very composed holding midfielder, the best we have at the club and one of the best in the Epl.

I'm always taken aback by our own fans who underrate him so badly.

Far be it from me to defend Rooney, but he was obviously asked to play despite being fully fit. That's a big difference from being rusty, but van Gaal clearly thought that it would be better to play his captain with an injury than to throw a young lad like Wilson in for a big away game. Rooney did play poorly, he played like someone carrying an injury, but he was far from the worst player last night.

Admittedly i'm being rather picky here but Rojo started, he signed this year.

Oops, my mistake re Rojo.

10 Dec 2014 00:46:12
Would absolutely love it if we played this midfield and attack at the weekend:
Herrera-Carrick-Di Maria
Rooney
Van Persie-Falcao

The best way we can hide our rusty defense is to go all at teams when at home. Falcao has to get games soon, it's hard to quantify just how good he was pre his Monaco injury

I saw a replay of the game finally and missed the game live. Very happy with the 3 points but i think LVG completely got the selection wrong evident by him making a 39th minute substitution. It is easy to blame the players but he set out the team.

I am still not clear what is the style he is looking for as he leaves guys like Herrera on the bench, who imo is a must starter. I agree on everything said on carrick and have been a big fan of his always and mentioned a couple of months ago him coming back was going to make a big difference.

I do hope we stick it to Liverpool this weekend. They are in trouble and have made a complete mess and rodgers will not last the season.

10 Dec 2014 12:03:53
4-4-2 Diamond was working well and players were comfortable too, don't know what was the need to change the tactics.

10 Dec 2014 12:19:27
MU,

We are playing with wingers as full backs, that is the need to change the tactics. Last season we would not have done that and we wouldn't be where we are now. LVG does know what he is doing tactically.

Agree that he got his tactics wrong, but Chelsea without Terry/Cahill/and the rest of their defense, City without Kompany/Mangala/Zaballeta/ and the rest of their defence will have trouble no matter what.
I think LVG is trying to play this system as both our full backs are injured. So he's trying to play three CB's and two wing backs, all be it, it isn't working.
What other team have had all these injuries at the back at the same time?

We played 3 at the back pre season and the start of the season when we had full backs available .
We played 3 at the back against arsenal when shaw was available .
Then played 4 at the back against stoke and hull with no full backs available.

I don't think its down to full backs i think lvg is looking at a more defensive line up for some games
Valencia and young have also played as fullbacks several times this season so i don't think there is an issue playing them there

10 Dec 2014 14:37:16
Nomid,

You say it isn't working, and I appreciate that the performances aren't how we would prefer, but from a results perspective it is working, we have won 5 in a row. Some of the players are struggling and that is mainly because them players aren't really that good, but we have injuries and LVG is doing the best he can to get us the results.

10 Dec 2014 16:47:23
AJH,

I've always thought of you to be quite down to earth and level headed but the fact you're saying Rooney looks rusty again after having one bad game while not being fully fit compared to how good he's been for the duration of this season and Fellaini reminding us why he got so much stick last season after one bad game, even though he's been the main reason we won at least 2 of our last 5, just seems a bit fickle.

09 Dec 2014 14:53:02
Whats with the Mata hate on this page??whenever he plays provided he has good players who can retain the ball as well as pass it and move into spaces for those little one two's he has been great.that is why he flourishes when he has Di Maria and Herrera but as always when we have a bad game he has to be the sacrificial lamb of the scapegoat contingent. Fellaini has a bad game in two months and we are back to let's sell him chants.

On the lighter note i am actually fascinated by the hustle we are showing to grind out results.last night was a painful game to watch but yet we won!!!slowly but showly we getting there.

yours truely Slyfox all the way from Botswana

09 Dec 2014 16:57:18
Hi sly,

There is no 'hate' for Mata certainly not from me, he comes across as an absolute gem of a man and clearly enjoys playing football for our great club. He has been ok for us but I would not say he has ever had a 'great' game, I can't remember him winning man of the match in 12 months (maybe once or twice but nothing stand out), something a player signed for 40+ million should be doing regularly.

I hate the whole 'lets sell so and so' after they have a bad game, especially players who are putting our red shirt on with pride each week and giving 100%. Every player will have a bad game now and again, but it seems like if we have a poor game somebody is on here saying 'right we should sell X, Y and Z and replace with A, B and C and youth players. It is all a little rash and unneeded at times.

I am fascinated by the way we are grinding out results also, I have read people saying they have not enjoyed the games this season, but I am on the edge of my seat each match. We aren't the finished article and the injuries have killed the momentum, but to grind out results like we are doing is somewhat remarkable.

I think we are getting there, but like jred says further down the page, I would like to see more improvement in performance as well as grinding out results, as at some point the luck and the ability to snatch these results will run out and we will need to be playing much better football.

Beast would have had a field day on here after last night, and not sure many could have disagreed with him, other than the result not much to take from the game.

09 Dec 2014 18:55:56
I like Mata and think he has quality. I think he struggles badly without mobility around him though, so without Herrera and ADM in there he looks a little static and tends not to influence the games much.

2 options for me, either play him with mobile players around him or move him on and reinvest in what we do need. I do like him though and would be a little sad to see him leave.

I like Mata but there are too many games which seem to pass him by. A player of his ability should be leaving his mark on every game.

Mata needs to receive the ball facing goal, when he is given it with back to goal the opposition know he is not strong and they can take the ball off him and break. We have seen it a few times this season and the fact is Mata has no pace so is most effective in and around the box, facing goal, yet that is Rooney territory. We may get away with it at home where he can play a more advanced role because we are usually on the front foot but away it is a dangerous game if he gets caught on the ball with our players beyond him.

Some players shine regardless of position, some take the game by the scruff of the neck and change it and some need a system that suits them. Mata is in the latter, play that way and he will be brilliant but as with Fellaini don't ask him to do or be what he is not. Whether we can afford that sort of player is the argument.

09 Dec 2014 13:53:04
Has anyboy heard fom big Al lately or Simon PW, I visit the lpool page regularly as it is very active and the havesome good posters there as does the Arsenal page.
The Lpool page is a bit like it was on hee last season with a lot calling for BR to be fired. It does my heart good to read them crying about how bad he is, but i'm pretty ure that even the great barca or RM would struggle if you take ronaldo and Benzema out f RM and Messi and Neymar from Barca

08 Dec 2014 16:14:48
Big game tonight fellas, a win and we look like we are on our way to somewhere near back.

Also very interesting to see Ed002 mention LVG may not be here come the start of next season, do u mind if I ask is this to do with another manager becoming potentially available and United board seeing it as maybe a opportunity missed if they don't act or is it far more complicated than that?

As always I understand if it somewhere you would rather not go batman :)

{Ed002's Note - No, it is nothing to do with that.}

09 Dec 2014 08:11:14
Another wakeup call yesterday, Poor performances have made quite clear that we can't rely on players that are good occasionally.
We are getting 3 points that is the most important thing, however now we need to get rid of few players to make way for some new signings.

Outs:
Jones: Plays 2 matches and is injured for next 10, can't rely on him for being our main central defender.
Rafael: Same problem as Jones, gets injured frequently.
Evans: He has been out with injury and has lost his form, looks very uncomfortable when has the ball and has no clue what to do with it.
Fellaini: Wont be surprised if he's sold or he can play a bit part role in the team.
Mata: I want him to do well, but he needs very busy players around him to do well, lacks pace upfront and gets dispossessed easily.Not the same player as he was 2 years back.
Can be used in a deal to get Strootman.
Anderson:No comments for this guy. Hopeless!
Chicarito/Nani/Powell:They will free up some wages.

Not sure about Zaha/young/valencia, can be a useful players next year (if we finish in top4, which i think we will) as we will need depth in our squad.

Ins:
Clyne: Has improved a lot in past seasons, Very good on the ball going forward and while defending.
Strootman:He can be our player that shields our back four while defending and joins the attack when needed.Better than fellaini in every aspect.
Varane:Loads of experience at a very young age and exactly what we need in defence.
Otamendi/Garay/Hummels/Subotic: Anyone of these two will be a great business and defence will be sorted.

Promote any one 2 of Rothwell/Harrop/Periera/Pearson?/Janko.

would like another winger in the side but no name is popping up in my mind now, other experts might share a few names.

09 Dec 2014 10:01:16
MU,

I do agree with some of what you are saying, but that is a little harsh on Evans, 'he has been out injured and has lost his form'. I think we need to give him more than 70 minutes to get his form back, he came into a tough game yesterday where the rest of the team weren't doing great and he struggled with the pace and closing down for 10-15 minutes, but then he settled and looked much better. He has been our best defender for the last 2 years, even when we had Vidic and Ferdinand, so to sell him because he got injured seems a bit unfair.

Fellaini has been one of our best players and got player of the month for November, he has one utterly terrible game and people are saying we should sell him, do we forget how well he has played for the last month then?

If you have Jones in there surely you have to have Smalling for the exact same reason, totally unreliable and apparently made of glass?

I agree on Mata unfortunately, he has scored a few goals for us but hasn't really had an exceptional game for us or done anything spectacular in almost a year now.

Signings seem decent but just exactly what the press said the other day when they talked about our dreaded 'war chest', Clyne is a good player but we would have to pay massively over the odds for him and I think there are other players as good as him out there.

Strootman (if fit) is the player that LVG wants to play as his pivot in the midfield, he has made that clear how important he saw him to his Dutch squad and it really would not surprise me if he was the big signing next summer. He must prove his fitness first though for me.

If we signed Varane the other defender we signed would have to be left footed if you want two centre halves, LVG has made it pretty obvious his two centre backs will be right and left footed.

It is impossible to just say 'sell so and so and promote youth to cover', many youth players struggle to make the step up to the top level, I imagine one of the 5 you mentioned will make it as a regular at United and they would need time to settle which a lot of fans these days rarely give players as we expect results straight away.

08 Dec 2014 23:29:18
Eds at the moment lots of fans are writing Falcao off and with some media saying LvG doesn't fancy him!
When he signed United said a loan, the agent says it is a permanent deal. Is feasible it is permanent and a loan for purposes of FFP .Or is a loan purely because of injuries and he would need to prove himself?
Thanks for any help

{Ed001's Note - from what I understand, he is on loan for a year with a permanent deal agreed for the end of the season. I believe it is a contract that is signed for him to join unless United pay to get out of it.}

Thanks very much Ed001 much obliged