Manchester United Banter Archive February 09 2015

 

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09 Feb 2015 21:56:45
Bloody hell, the sites got interesting since lunch time lol. Although I agree with some of the comments regarding the standard and style of play there's just no way I could stop watching the boys even if I wanted to. I'd rather watch with disgust then not at all

Believable6 Unbelievable0

09 Feb 2015 23:12:59
That's because we're football fans, mate. We're all masochists :)

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09 Feb 2015 21:28:48
Reading some of these posts & it seems some people are not happy with LVG. For what its worth here is my view on his short time here. First off he had a very short time to work with the squad before the season as Holland reached the world cup semis, think he got just under 3 weeks. Secondly he inherited a team short on confididence & missing 3 of the previous seasons back 4. Thirdly he inherited a squad with far to many past it or just not up to it players. He replaced Evra with Shaw who hopefully we will get 10 plus years out of. He has managed to get rid of Cleverley, Anderson & even though he tried, Fletcher. To replace these he has brought in Herrera & Blind who everyone must agree are better. Giggs was a legend who had to be replaced & few could argue that Di Marias early season form was brilliant, but has dropped off drasticly since his injury. Rojo is playing well at CH but alongside Smalling, Evans & Jones he is trying to cover up for their shortcomings. Even LVG knows this which is why he is trying young kids like Blackett & McNair. I honestly believe that this summer a qualiy CH, CM & maybe RB will be signed. Add this to a full pre season & watch us go next year.

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I agree but LvG is making a massive mistake every single game by playing rooney in midfield he is awful there either play him up front or don't play him

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Middleton Red valid points for sure but let's be fair Giggs knew how dire the 3 stooges are in defence, so they should have got 2 CBs.

Did LvG buy Shaw and Herrera I personally think he was told they are in, hence never playing Herrera, and giving Shaw a hard time over fitness, double training sessions decimated our squad with injuries.

Now there are signs he is slowly changing a lot of the things that are wrong, 3-5-2 may be gone for good although likely to be back for Burnley due to Shaws ban. Falcao is likely finished now and doubt he'll start against Burnley also someone he didn't want yet will continue to play RVP who has been poor

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09 Feb 2015 23:15:31
Middleton, you say he had to get rid of 3 of our 4 defenders, and also say he had to clear out players who were past it.

A lot of people on here thought they were the same thing last season.

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Pardoe

Interesting you said Giggs knew how poor the three stooges, as you described them, were. Giggs went from playing alongside them as a team mate to being assistant manager, wrongly in my opinion so I would question his objectivity. It is very difficult to go from team member to being in management of the same team. I surmised earlier in the season that given the short time due to his world cup exploits that LvG would have asked Giggs opinion on the defenders and if he said they were poor LvG had to go into the market quickly. LvG didn't buy that top CB so I would surmise the opposite to you in that Giggs told him they had potential. Watching the games does LvG ever speak to Giggs? Whenever the camera is on the bench he speaks to the guy on the other side but I can't remember seeing him speak to Giggs. You could surmise that LvG is not impressed with Giggs or maybe Giggs with him but I wouldn't surmise that LvG ignored Giggs saying they were poor.

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10 Feb 2015 10:23:02
Red Man,

I was wondering if anybody else had noticed that or if it was just me, I cannot remember ever seeing Giggs talk on the bench, when the camera goes on to them Giggs is sat chewing gum and not saying a word and LVG is talking to the guy on his left.

It makes me think either Giggs has nothing to say, or he knows LVG won't listen anyway. A good assistant manager needs to not be afraid to question the manager and fire ideas off him, that was the problem with Mike Phelan towards the end of Fergie's reign, he was just a yes man, I would hate to think Giggs is the same, I never thought he would be.

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11 Feb 2015 15:38:44
Red Man, I've mentioned it before - I wouldn't be surprised if Giggs has been directed by LVG not to go to the touchline. The guy's ego wouldn't allow someone else to be seen in the limelight - if he doesn't move, no-one moves.

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09 Feb 2015 18:59:01
Don't post on here very often but I've been thinking about this for quite a while and wanted to know what other peoples opinions are on what I think. Firstly I think that our defence isn't the major cause of our fluctuating form. That would be the fact that we have 3 of the best strikers in football. 1 is being played in midfield. One has just had a long term injury and one seems all out of sorts. I personally think if Rooney was played up top he would score more, falcao will come good, Wilson will be a great talent and I'm hoping van Persie is just going through a rough patch. I also think with us playing Rooney in midfield we are sacrificing a place which could be taken by mata or Herrera who could provide creativity. We need to be playing players in their correct positions more and playing the right players. Now onto the summer. We will need to spend big again to secure top targets but hopefully not too much. I think we should definitely take advantage of the Alves situation and sign him on a free because he's still a great player and would provide experience to the back 4. Would also give McNair a chance to develop without too much future competition. I personally think we should get rid of Evans and either smalling or jones. To be replaced by a ball playing cb like hummels who could be gotten at a lower price if Dortmund fail to stay up. And a good young centre back such as varane or marquinhos so we have good options for years to come. We HAVE TO go all out for Pogba in the summer and put the past behind us or we will have double the regret. Whether it's 80 million or 100 million we need to go for him, if we don't manage to sign him however we should go for either Vidal or nainggolan obviously at a much lower price. The last first team signing for me should be depay. We need a fast right winger. Obviously we have januzaj and ADM but in my opinion we need real pace down the right hand side to provide the chances for players like falcao, who I hope we sign permanently. I think without including Pogba because it will make the price sound so much higher we will only need to spend around 25/30m on hummels, same on varane and about 15m on depay so a maximum of 85m on 4 players including the free Alves. Which I personally don't think is bad. Other than the first team transfers I think we should be going for the real 'world class' youngsters like Madrid have odegaard and Barcelona have hallilovic. Hachim mastour from Milan looks a really good young talent. He would be a great addition to the ranks.

Believable2 Unbelievable4

09 Feb 2015 18:27:51
I really can't believe some of what I have just read! Ppl claiming they are going to stop watching thus supporting because we are not blowing teams away?

I don't like to get into the whole support a different club stuff but Scot and gcu I am suprised and disappointed, I wonder how long it will be till u realize your heart has always loved a certain west London club?

most will never stop going or supporting just because we have had a difficult 18 months.

SHOCKED!
Guess we do have some glory hunters here amongst us.

Anger at style, signings, tactics, position etc I can understand but to announce u are going to stop watching and supporting is poor form. Don't worry lads stick around and when we are playing well I'll let u know and u can watch and support the lads again.

Believable11 Unbelievable4

Chris, you really do the average fan no favors - you're either really thick or have poor comprehension skills, or most likely it's both.

I'll say it again, but slower this time.

"I actually turned it off and missed both goals.I've never ever stopped watching before."

That speaks to frustration, not being a glory hunter - can you read, can you decipher the difference??

Where in my post to GDS (and not to you d-head) did I say I was going to stop watching (future tense)??

Get an education. it will take you far.

Scotbos (USA)

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This site is full of glory supporters mate who are only interested in which big signing is coming in next, the majority don't go to games and if we ended up a midtable side for the foreseeable future they would all have man city tops on, i'm embarrased by a large majority of our fans.

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09 Feb 2015 19:25:39
haha I love the fine use of the English language here.

If u want to get petty your initial post was not directed at gds, your reply to his comment was, but the "I turned off and didn't see either goal" comment was not.

2nd turning off a game before a goal is even scored let alone the equalizer is poor support regardless how u want to dress it up. Would u leave the stadium at half time at 0-0?

the club needs its it's fans support through tough times (I would remind u we are still in the CL places ahead if arsenal and spurs and Liverpool) not fans doing what u are and turning there back on the team because u ain't happy, if that truth upsets u then good! Do 1!
The more fans that are willing to go through the good and bad times the better, that is support, I guess this is the modern day fan for u.
there have been many posters on this page some everyone has got on with and some people ain't, that's cool it's a banter site built for opinions, but never in the 10 or so years have I seen a post as cringy as yours and gcu made me feel.

Call me a dhead or whatever it does not effect me I have I'm sure offended many people in the past here, none intentionally none the less I stand by what I say.

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I agree stretfordender, we love the fantasy football played out in the summer transfer windows. but some seem to think that's football now.

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Chris,

Let me make one thing clear.

Your opinion means nothing to me. Likewise my being a fan has nothing to do with you.

I'm interested in the team, its history, its future, and most important of all it's style of play. win, lose or draw.

It might surprise you, but I really don't give a cinema seat what you think. .you're just some puffed up, self proclaimed fan, the type that sees themselves as a superior fan, the better than you fan, I always support the lads fan. .but I'm guessing that smugness, is all you've got.

Get out and get a friggin' life.

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{Ed002's Note - Try not to be a whining little bitch.}

09 Feb 2015 19:49:33
Scot, maybe it is you who needs a refresher course? Chirs said people and did not mention you personally.

People + more than one person.

I think an apology is in order personally.

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{Ed002's Note - It is like the signing of Marco Reus, don't hold your breath.}

09 Feb 2015 19:55:50
Im. Going Wednesday and hope for a big display after Sunday and I'll never stop watching or supporting mu . That's just sad and Chris his right plastic fans and arm chair supporters

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Scotbos

Putting aside the merits of your argument, I'm not clear why you have to be so offensive. You may not care what Chris (or GDS) think but they are long time well respected posters: we may not always agree with them but they are usually considered in their arguments. Your response was puerile and insulting, and completely unnecessary.

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I live in ireland and go to old Trafford 3 times a year, to be fair it's harder for fans to go who don't live in Manchester, there's all types of fans out there, they support the club buying jerseys, paying for the united channel, there are lots of fans who know nothing about football or ever kicked a ball in their life, you don't have to have a season ticket to be a fanatic, but whatever everyone should support the club win lose or draw, but it's painfull to watch a manager playing players out of position and not installing confidence in his players, respect to all fans and everyone on here, they wouldn't be on here unless they cared, ps put Rooney up top against burnley

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I 100% agree Leahy, I'm not proclaiming to be some super fan or whatever scotbos is saying.
Like u I don't live on the doorstep of old Trafford, it costs me a bomb the few times a year I go now, I'm lucky i have a decent job that allows me a bit of extra cash here and there a few times a year to pay the crazy costs to go and other expenses (Porsche's really do eat fuel and the Marriott ain't cheap either lol).

Us United fans get called a lot by other fans glory hunters, moaners, arrogant etc and this page seems to dispel that notion by and large and when someone makes a claims that they turned off watching us after 45 mins and then someone claims they are not watching us anymore because we are struggling(whatever u believe the reasons to be) it shines a crappy light on us all regardless if your feelings are totally different, it gives other another stick to throw at us.
Wether your under 30 and have only known the really good times or over 50 and have been through the darkest times we should all be in any situation together supporting the club and players.

Sure people whinge, that's expected when there not happy, look at beast he comes on says the same things over and over but that's only because he cares and wants change.

GDS can go a bit over board in his positivity and seems to comment on every post and gets stick off a load but it's cause he cares.

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Agree with you Chris, maybe we are all born winners and hate losing, I even hate losing games to my kids out in the back garden, lol

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09 Feb 2015 23:02:55
Wiganred,

I think you will see a good performance from the lads. I should imagine being labelled long ball merchants by the king of English PL long ball football might person a few egos.

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09 Feb 2015 23:17:11
There's disagreeing, and there's just being downright rude.

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10 Feb 2015 00:08:46
My favourite post of the day:

'Let me get one thing clear, your opinion means nothing to me'.

Why the hell are you here then? People will have opinions it's what this site is about, you have made an absolute fool of yourself today looking at the posts, how embarrassing. Maybe LA Galaxy are for you mate?

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09 Feb 2015 16:55:37
Alright Folks.

don't post to often but have to vent my frustration somewhere!!

my main annoyance is lvg post match comments after the last few games coming out with stuff like "playing the opposition way" "not playing on the ground". why then would you sit for 45mins watching it and letting it happen?. the squad has 5 days training no distractions and straight away in a game the football is muck. what the hell are these guys doing on the training field?

then he makes statements like "he's fit but not match fit". if he doesn't give players a chance on the field how can they get match fit?

just say for instance lvg was sacked in the morning and ancellotti or any of the top managers took over. i'd have no doubt that the same players that look awful at the moment would straight away perform. think that says it all

sorry rant over.

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Agree a 100%.

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It says nothing at all.

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09 Feb 2015 19:48:37
Until that new manager played a few players out of position or didn't play the "United Way".

Football is the most fickle of sports.

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09 Feb 2015 14:37:14
Not been on much of late, but just a quick post.

If, we are to really complete a rebuild in the coming summer, no matter who the manager is, I believe we need to get rid of Rafael, Smalling and Evans and replace with one world class CB and Clyne at RB, while allowing Blackett and McNair to develop further. We need a truly top class CM player who can run our midfield, captain the side and lead by true example. We need to let Young, RVP, Hernandez and Nani go and get in a world class right winger, and depending on how Falcao does the rest of the season, we will need at least one top class striker.

For me, if Rooney is to have a future it has to be as a striker, if he isn't up to it we will need another quality striker to fight it out with Wilson and RVP's replacement. The time for sentiment and making excuses for under-performing is over, we are struggling due to the old round hole, square peg problem, which started under SAF a few years ago, as well as playing players due to their history. Past performances and reputation need to be put to one side, if we are to really come out the other side with a team/squad who are really capable of competing with the Bayerns and Madrids of this world.

Still tough times and huge work to do, I just hope we, as a club, have the balls to make the decisions that are needed.

Believable13 Unbelievable4

09 Feb 2015 15:12:42
Why get rid of Rafael? We would just be back to a situation again where we have just 1 natural RB. Clyne with Rafael as back up would be my option, we now also have McNair who looks comfortable there.

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You answered your own question fresh, plus Valencia can be 3rd choice RB. Rafael is too injury prone and is a waste of a wage with McNair and Valencia there for cover.

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I'd rather see the useless Valencia leave than Rafael. Rafael when fit is one of the League's best RB's. Valencia is neither a good RB, Fullback or Winger. All he does is run and blasts the ball across the box at such a speed that Usain Bolt wouldn't get on the end of it. He is a hopeless footballer. Rafael at least can play football, swing in a nice ball and is defensively better.

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Fresh, how much has Rafael been paid per minute played when fit this season? its not a question of ability, it is a question of who will be fit to be back up if and when the first choice RB gets injured, would you put your trust in Rafael for that? I certainly wouldn't so no point in him being here on the wage bill.

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Agree 100% top post.

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Rafael and fit should not be said in the same statement. He's never fit.

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09 Feb 2015 14:08:10
Right I will say this first, I am NOT in the sack LvG camp, and I don't agree with ever sacking a manager during the season. I didn't agree with it with Moyes even though we all knew he wasn't good enough.

But here's my analysis of the issues we are having with our performances atm.

First off I'll start with Falcao. Now we all wanted him to be in the team. When he did get a few minutes in a game he would have great movement, his runs were great and a joy to watch. But LvG said he needed to work more for the team and learn his way of playing. Now as a first team player he isn't making those runs, he's playing deep and generally not doing the things we wanted him to do and the reasons we wanted him in the team.

Di Maria when he first came to us was full of running and taking risks with his passing and his shoot on sight mentality. And in those first few games he looked amazing and easily a 60m player. Now however he isn't making the same runs, he isn't taking those shots from distance and his passing has become safer and less risky.

Rooney has been played in midfield but he looks nothing like a good midfielder let alone a world class one. Yet Ander Herrera can't get a game, but when he does come on he makes those risky passes, he drives forward and creates chances and we look much more fluid in attack. That's why we want him in the team.

But I would say that he won't get into the team until he curbs his attacking mentality and becomes a safer passer of the ball.

LvG wants balance and control, his teams gain this through possession. If you have the ball then there is no danger to defend, if you have the ball then you can attack your opponents and control the tempo of the game. There is nothing wrong with possession football, in fact if we were smarter with possession and held it better under Sir Alex then we would have achieved more in Europe during his time. It was when we played 433 with Quieroz as number two and had better possession of the ball that we had our best time in Europe under Sir Alex.

But Possession without running and tempo changes with probing and stretching of the opposition is just possession for the sake of defence. People are surprised by our defensive record considering the general poor quality of our defence, well we have defended much better since the first couple of months because of this possession style that LvG has implemented, but that has come at a cost of our attacking intent.

My hope is that once LvG has better defenders and has that stability at the back that he will allow the forward thinking players to return to a more attack leaned mentality. Unfortunately we won't see that until the start of next season. Don't expect a swashbuckling style to return this season. We have poor defenders and LvG is being pragmatic in his approach and has set his team up to cover for their deficiences. And until they have been addressed he won't change.

If Herrera want's to play football this season he better learn to pass sideways and backwards.

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09 Feb 2015 14:31:21
My thoughts exactly.

The manager will get us back into the CL at all costs. It is as simple as that really IMO.

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Falcao was one of the best strikers i have ever seen playing as a lone striker on the defenders shoulder in and around the box.
Lvg wants him to play deeper and its just not his game .
Di maria was excellent last year playing in a midfield 3 he looked good at the start of the season playing deeper .
For some reason lvg now wants him to play the 10 role.
Its the opposite with rooney, before xmas he played the 10 role, was our top scorer and probably best outfield player. So of course he got moved to cm, i'm not sure he has scored since . The amount of chances we create with rooney playing so deep has also dropped .

I still haven't seen any improvement under lvg from the start of the season .
There are major issue with lvgs tactics that have been covered before, now that other teams are playing well it seems even the most pro lvg supporters are starting to see it

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This maybe a correct analysis but the key to possession is in the midfield and playing Rooney, a forward, at the hub, causes the concept to fail ab initio. He himself doesn't have the short passing skills or movement to control the play or bring his teammates into it. Thus he's being wasted. Di Maria has one foot, and not the greatest control, so, again as a possession midfielder he just doesn't cut the mustard. As good a team as Real were last season, they were not cut from the same mold as Barcelona - much more cut and thrust like the United of old - the United we all seem to want to see again.

You can't mollycoddle the defence for ever. At some point in time it would be greta to see what would happen if we actually play to the qualities of our players, rather than the philosophy. The match against Burnley would be a good opportunity to have a go.

In the end though if this style (or lack of it) gets us back into the top 4 - and I have my doubts it will - will we mark this down to acceptable pragmatism?

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The thing is that he isn't even playing possession football anymore. When it was 5 at the back you could see that it was about sustaining possession and protecting the defence. Yesterday the only midfield player capable of holding onto possession was Blind. The idea that Herrera isn't being played because he won't curb his attacking drive or play safer in possession falls flat when Januzaj instead. We could barely hold onto to the ball for more than a few passes yesterday, and West Ham were passing us off the park. As far as I can see there is no coherent philosophy, just a man making mistake after mistake with team selection and set up.

The fact of the matter is that we are playing too many players out of position, and asking other players to curb what they do well so that they fit some confused image of where van Gaal sees the team going. The defence isn't the problem, the problem is that van Gaal isn't allowing his best players to play in the most effective way. No philosophy bull can hide the fact that the team have made minimal progress since the season started. Look at Spurs as a contrast: they had a few rocky months as the "philosophy" was put in place, but now their fitness and coherence is starting to pay off.

At the start of the season we had Herrera looking sharp, Rooney playing well up front, and Di Maria looking like he could set the league alight. Now our only consistent performer is the keeper, and the only player who seems to have benefited in any way from van Gaal is Ashley bloody Young.

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Oh Shappy

You should stop trying to be football manager and typical fans solution is buy some more and stop overanalysing things mate.

Sometimes the simplest things are very hard for people to see and in this case we have a guy who is just not cut out for the job and his style of football is rubbish, sorry philosophy I meant.

I say this without any reservation we played better last year with a far worse squad riddled with injuries and old age.

The good news is that he does not need any help and will hang himself given what we are witnessing.

It sounds terrible but his job might be saved by injuries to certain players so he is forced to play people in the right position. With a full squad we are playing worse than we did when we had limitations on selections.

How can any team play well when the manager changes things every week and if after 7 months he still can't figure it out he is a imo.

Do you see mourinho, ancelloti, conte, simeone changing formations and teams week in week out?

Some of the things posted here is just pure rubbish and people are in lala land.

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We can argue / debate all day - but this team under LVG is not a team that excites me as a fan in any shape or form.

I actually turned it off and missed both goals.I've never ever stopped watching before.

West Ham had Jenkinson and Tompkins in defence - 2 AWFUL players - yet we looked just as bad.

We are so boring to watch and it's game after game after game.

I don't want to see Manchester United built in LVG's image. he is not the answer.

My choice is and always will be Ancelotti.

One season removed from SAF is quickly becoming 2, and there is little evidence of improvement and the road back looks longer than ever.

Scotbos (USA)

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Scot

Well I am joining you and going to stop watching us as it only leads to frustration just complete disgust and stress. Apologies for the excessive posting on the site and needless arguments with fellow supporters. I believe we will finish 5th or 6th and that is criminal IMO.

I guess we will reload come summer and go through another summer of angst and uncertainty.

Enjoy the rest of the season and hope I am wrong.

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09 Feb 2015 17:15:02
Scot and GCU,

Real fans ladies and gents, real fans. If you don't want to watch during the tough times, we don't want you as fans during the good times. Embarrassed to read that, totally disgusted.

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I also don't like the way we are playing under LVG but to stop watching the team you supposedly support is wrong, we may not play good football for a couple more years yet, we wasn't good the last few of fergie's years.If you want good football go and support a team you think play the football the way you want it played.I am a manchester united supporter and will patiently wait till we get it right.

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GDS why don't you zip it with your 2 penny analysis. Stick to tit for tat with Beast. I've read some of the drivel you post day in and day out.

Take a good hard at what you're seeing - it's not close to good enough, and at times it is woeful.

There is no drive, no passion and zero excitement. Where is the attacking intent? the tempo? a player willing to beat his man? where is the leadership on the field? where is the leadership from the touchline?
When is the last time we played a great game?

We huff and puff and trip over our own feet week in and week out, but hey it's all good because YOU are a real fan.

You obviously ca't see the wood fro the trees If you think I'm wrong.

But just for you. come on boys!!

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GDS why don't you zip it with your 2 penny analysis. Stick to tit for tat with Beast. I've read some of the drivel you post day in and day out.

Take a good hard at what you're seeing - it's not close to good enough, and at times it is woeful.

There is no drive, no passion and zero excitement. Where is the attacking intent? the tempo? a player willing to beat his man? where is the leadership on the field? where is the leadership from the touchline?
When is the last time we played a great game?

We huff and puff and trip over our own feet week in and week out, but hey it's all good because YOU are a real fan.

You obviously ca't see the wood fro the trees If you think I'm wrong.

But just for you. come on boys!!

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09 Feb 2015 18:17:44
I will support the lads through thick and thin!
shocked to say the least by a few! Really am, glory hunters come to mind! Embarrassing is another.

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Shappy - We looked inept going forward right from the start of the season. Even pre-season we created next to nothing every game, aside from the first one (where we were apparently jet lagged and won 7-1 - he even moans about that).

Maybe LVG needs to take a brief sabbatical and let the boys play naturally. I think there has to be a balance between players being told 100% what to do and letting their natural talent flourish - otherwise why pay £150m on superstars, when you can just buy intelligent jobsworths that will do as he says! You pay the extra £20m for the talent, the stuff you can't teach - he is stifling that.

We play like Stoke under Pulis - great for Stoke, shocking for Utd.

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09 Feb 2015 19:02:12
I won't stop watching the games for anything, but the norwegian nationalteam plays more exciting football atm, and that says it all. don't think we are worst off than last season, but its not far from it.

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09 Feb 2015 19:47:52
I must admit Dan, I find it hard to find valid reasons for Rooney being played in midfield and Herrera's continued absence. Putting Rooney back up top, Herrera back in CM and Di Maria back on the left would IMO transform the team. Just those few changes would make a massive difference.

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09 Feb 2015 19:48:17
GCU,

Where are we in the league mate?

How many games have we lost this season?

How many big teams have we lost too this season by more than 1 goal?

We all have an opinion. You have yours and I have mine.

At the start of the season we all wanted to be back in the top four. We are currently in the top 4 and just 5 points shy of the team that won the league last season. The team that the former usless manager told everyone we need to aspire too.

I am sorry, but some of the comments are becoming stupid. Yes, we are not great to watch but we are getting the job done. Yes, some of the managers team selections and formations are confusing; but there must be reasons for them.

At the end of the day, we are in much better shape now as opposed to this time last season when we were beaing beaten every other game more or less which led to 12 defeats; 7 of them at home. As for our performance last seaosn compared to this we must have watched different games or I somehow ended up in parallel earth and watched the parallel United, because I witnessed some really bad peformances that I don't think will ever be trumped.

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09 Feb 2015 19:48:57
GDS2,

If we were sitting in 7th place 10 points off of a top four position, I could understand some of the rubbish that has been airred on this forum. That said I still spent my money on going to watch the team I love. Even after witnessing embarrassment after embarrassment I kept on going.

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GDS2

Your opinion and perception of a real fan means absolute nothing to me. Go play in your sandbox:)

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09 Feb 2015 14:07:44
I generally think we will just fall over the line this season and get CL football and have a go at winning the FA cup. I think the manager knows this too which would explain why we are seeing different types of set ups and formations. It all boils down to one thing: The manager doesn't have faith in the current set of players to deliver his style of football and get us in the CL this season.

It is foolish in the extreme to say the manager and his staff do not know what they are doing. They see the players everyday. They know the problems as well.

It seems to me that the decision to play with a defensive mentality was took after we lost to leicester. Before that, we were playing a very attacking system. But that defeat must have been a rude awakening for the manager. For he was probably told that his minimum requirment this season was to get the team back into the CL. Thus, the manager has made us hard to beat; and probably thought that with the strikers and attacking quality we have, we could still score goals. Now, IMO, that has definitely transpired to a degree: We are harder to beat and have won a lot of games down to individual qualities.

I understand that people are not happy with some of the performances ( I say some because not all are as bad as some make out. There has actually been some very good performances over the last few months) but I think that some should just take a step back and try to understand that the manager is probably under huge pressure to get the team back in the CL. Thus the manager, knowing that he doesn't have the team he wants to properly implement his style of play, has opted to look at every game on an individual basis and sacrificed his own beleifs in order to get the team back in the CL.

That is just my thoughts. I don't by all the stuff about him making big calls based on his ego.

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11 Feb 2015 13:51:05
we need to play a winning game first. we all know some of our squads are not up to standard and some are low with confidence and seem confused. Winning will boost their confidence and is crucial for our back 4 and strikers. Then we can focus on playing beautiful football. Some players like De ghea does his job and at the end of the day, all other players to mature and do their jobs. forget the performance for now. they will follow. We've got some quality players. we just need to juggle around a little more.

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09 Feb 2015 14:01:59
I appreciate it takes all kinds of tactics to maybe get a goal or get a point or three points but I can't believe our best option is to put a big yard dog on up front. Facts.RVP should not be starting any game, lazy, miserable, sulking. Rooney should replace him bcos he will never make a CM and that leaves a space for Herrera to prove what he can do. The only positive is Rojo is turning out to be a beast but needs quality at the side of him to help with set pieces.

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09 Feb 2015 14:21:22
Totally agree about RVP. I think he will probably leave at the end of the season.

Herrera needs to play. That is the biggest gripe I have with the manager atm.
There must be an underlying reason for his continued absence from the first team.

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09 Feb 2015 13:20:48
This isn't a sack the manager post but I am concerned.

Di Maria looks a shadow of the player we saw last season. Falcao and van persie look nothing like they were 24 months ago and one needs dropping and bothe moving on come summer.

Rooney with all the will in the world is not and never will be a midfielder. He needs to be up front with pace on the flanks and vision behind him.

Last year we were all moaning about how bad our left hand side was and we went out and spent 150 million making signings to fix it and now this season our right hand side has gone down the pan.

As I said this isn't a sack the manager, particularly as there's no replacement. But come end of may, if top four and the fa cup has not been achieved it needs looking at. If there's a definite plan it needs work on.

It comes to something when even Mike Bassett sorry Big Sam its a long pass call me Allerdici is making cracks.

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09 Feb 2015 14:08:01
Di Maria struggled in his first season at Madrid.

RVP needs to be sold IMO.

It is still too early to say about Falcao. His general game play improves week by week but he isn't putting chances away like we know he can. He missed a sitter yesterday.

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09 Feb 2015 11:41:49
Javi Martinez, Arturo Vidal and Kevin Strootman -- these 3 players at some point in the past were the most wanted players on this site. Majority of the posters on here would have taken these players when they were linked with us in the past.

But just a weird co-incidence that since being linked with us all three of them have had an extremely bad injury record.

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I heard that when we are seriously interested in a player we send them a new training regime for them to use with their current club so as to help them fit in easier when they move to us. Unfortunately its the same one we put Hargreaves, Anderson, and co on when with us.

So maybe that explains it. lol

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09 Feb 2015 10:56:11
I think the hardest thing to stomach for me is that we don't seem to be any better now than we were in August. We haven't made any progression in style of play. We aren't an attacking team at all. We just don't seem to have any kind of identity.

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We may not be keen on the eye but we have improved from last year, we are a much harder team to beat and we fight to the end of games

and if our strikers actually took their chances no one would be slating the team.

we miss countless chances every game yet when we draw or lose its a big deal.

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Exactly what I'm thinking! We do not look like a team! Just individual stars who are not gelling together. The first couple of months isn't so bad but there are no signs of improving, you can only blame the management for that.

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SPB - last year we didn't fight to the end of games for goals because typically we were the ones hanging on to wins (and failing) - remember Moyes was criticised for trying to hold out and not score more. This year we are definitely worse to watch and definitely have even less identity than last season. We are now the ones attempting to salvage a point instead of holding on to wins, (especially against half decent teams) - its a trick of the mind that you think we are better this year.

LVG thanking his players yesterday for that! Moyes would have been destroyed.

I don't even think we do a great job of ruffling the winning team either with our late "surges", its not exactly a siege like we experience the other way around. Again that may be a trick of the mind because of who we support.

We have gone from supporting a Man Utd team in decline last season, to supporting a Stoke City equivalent, grind down the opposition and hope we nick a goal!

Give me back Man Utd any day, we have reached the end of the 4 year slide now, time to get back on the ladder, but we need a new manager to do that.

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We haven't come from behind to win this season - great Spirit!

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You know what beast, i always thought you had a bit of a vendetta with LVG, but your posts are starting to make a lot of sense to me

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I honestly don't know how anyone can take anything positive from the way were playing it is shocking Di Maria doesn't look worth 60 million lira, falcao looks like Andy Carroll understudy and Rooney God I don't know where to start I don't see any improvement whatsoever and I am seriously starting to doubt top 4.

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Beast. Rvp and falcao missed chances yesterday that they'll normally score blind folded. If rooney is moved up top, it will make our team more potent, it will also allow hererra to play. Two simple changes that could improve us endlessly.

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09 Feb 2015 13:30:43
Here we go with last season. Last season we were rubbish. We regularly got spanked by big margins. This season, we have one of the best defences in the league and have only conceded more than 2 goals on three occasions this season.

That says to me that the manager decided to make sorting that problem out a priority, which he has with flying colours.
We are not finishing the chances we should be with the players we have.

That is not the managers fault. I mean, the miss by Falcao was shocking. RVP should have bagged at least two as well.
The manager needs to drop on off them for the next few games and put Rooney back up top.

Some people will never be happy with LVG in charge. It won't matter what he does.

We should have one yesterdays game with the chances created. I mean, that's not forget we were playing a good side who has an excellent home record this season. Yet people still want to find fault and everything the team are trying to do.

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09 Feb 2015 14:08:22
That should read: more than one goal on three occasions:

Swansea 2.1

WBA 2.2

leicester 5.3

Compare that to last season where we got a few beatings.

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I don't think we're worse to watch, it's not as frustrating. But the point is still there that I feel like we've taken a step backwards since September, we were playing fast paced attacking football with the diamond and I believe this is because we were playing players in their positions, not chopping and changing to accommodate stupid positions, e.g. Rooney in midfield. The defence is looking a lot stronger and I believe this is why LVG has dropped rooney back as we don't need as much cover, but it's not the right decision; rooney is a striker, end of.
Herrera is the key for me, we always look far better when he's playing, and this was ever present in August/September

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Theres only 1 reason we have only conceded like we have and that's david de ghea not the defence

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09 Feb 2015 19:49:16
Not really John. In some games granted, but the majority of games we have played recently for example, the opposition have had little in the way of clear cut chances.

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Plenty of games he's been man of the match even yesterday we could of been 3-4 down at half time.our defence has been woeful most games.

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09 Feb 2015 08:55:36
Ignoring what has gone before, the next three fixtures are massive. we are playing the likes of Burnley Swansea and Sunderland (Home for two of those) whilst the other teams around us are generally playing each other.

These 3 games are a massive chance to cement ourselves in that top 4 before we have to play any of these teams.

We must win all of the next 3/4 games.

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I agree completely Nozz. These three games could be crucial come the end of the season. Let's play aggressively with fluidity. Let's play as if we are Manchester United!

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09 Feb 2015 09:51:50
Yes, we have a difficult March end/April start and we need to create some cushion going into those fixtures.

Needless to say we will have to beat Arsenal and Spurs when they come to Old Trafford.

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Swansea away will be a difficult game, I would be pleased with a draw from that, considering our away form.

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09 Feb 2015 13:47:27
We will win the next three games IMO.

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09 Feb 2015 05:56:14
Sam Allardyce claiming all we did was playong balls pretty much sums up our wayward performances this season. How times have changed.

I am so bored watching us at the moment.

YAWN.

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Thought this post was from a Liverpool supporter at first glance due to the YNWA anagram

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09 Feb 2015 09:08:26
Was Big Sam's comment not just tongue in cheek because of the stick his teams have taken for playing long balls throughout his career?

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Could be GDS but he has got a point. If we cement top 4 I'll take these performances on the chin for this season but I cannot continue to watch this dribble for the whole tenure of LVGs contract.

Comparing our first half against Leicester with what I seen yesterday is tough to swallow.

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It had the benefit of being both GDS2. It was a have that Hypocrite!

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09 Feb 2015 10:29:27
Juan,

It is mate, some of the football we are seeing is truly shocking, on paper a 1-1 draw if you didn't watch the game isn't a bad result, but watching the game we were dreadful, how players with such ability can look so bad is beyond me, and they must take some flack not just the manager, most of us would have been happy with the team selection yesterday (as Ed004 said). Ok, there are a few changes that could be made with positions but these are top class players who have played well in these positions before, they should not look so pathetic playing them now.

I am 100% not against putting Fellaini on when things go wrong and hitting the ball forward, people have short memories and forget Gary Pallister playing up front at the end of some games to scrape points under Fergie, and nobody complained then, the issue is that we seem to be seeing it far too often as the original plan is failing.

West Ham's defence were falling apart yesterday so pace and quick passing could have broken them down, Wilson and Herrera needed to come on but instead they never even warmed up.

I will not turn against the manager at this point, especially after a fighting 1-1 and 1 defeat in 17 as I think that puts some perspective on it, but there needs to be major improvements all round as at the moment it is not good enough and we can all see that.

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Did we fight that hard to get back in the game, I don't think we did? If we hadn't got lucky with their defender knocking it down, would people still be praising our fighting spirit, I doubt it very much. Too many people make their assessments based on the end result and not the performance.

I would agree with you GDS2 that the players are not doing what they should be, however for the sheer number of top class players we have continuously under performing it has to be a problem with the system/tactics, that is the managers responsibility.

We have to blame the manager, just like we blamed the manager last season (where we had less players performing this badly - and they were not as good/expensive beforehand).

It simple isn't good enough. LVG is struggling to get us CL football, we should be comfortable now considering the advantages we had.

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09 Feb 2015 11:09:50
The only thing more boring than the first 50 minutes yesterday is "Beasts" constant moaning, really is tedious now.

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09 Feb 2015 11:28:43
Hear Hear Tot66

Beast,

'Too many people make their assessment based on the end result and not the performance'.

I am guessing in 99 you were kicking off that we didn't beat Munich playing a great style of play and that 2 goals in injury time is the wrong way to be winning Champions League titles, we should have outplayed them?

Of course people base a fightback on the result of the fightback, what else can they base it on? We are aiming to score and we scored, so we were successful, if we didn't score then obviously people wouldn't be saying we fought back, because we wouldn't have. There are many things to complain about yesterday, the fact we fought back for a point isn't in question.

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If LvG doesn't feel Rooney is better than Falcao, Van Persie, Wilson or even Fellaini upfront, then that's fair enough and totally his decision, but Rooney is certainly not better than either ADM or Herrera in midfield so he shouldn't be playing there either. It seems he is being forced to fit Rooney in and he is going along with it. Round holes, square pegs and all that. Obviously Rooney was going to move to midfield eventually and MU have been trying to do that for a while now, SAF did it, Moyes did it and now LvG, but Rooney is not a midfielder, certainly not a top notch midfielder for a top club. Now if Rooney isn't seen as good enough to play as a striker and isn't good enough in midfield, then why is he here? Personally I'd play Rooney as the number ten with Falcao and RvP/Wilson ahead of him. Herrera and ADM in midfield, Blind/Carrick CDM.

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I have hardly moaned on here recently, I have certainly laid off a lot - many others are doing the moaning for me. What is there to be positive about?

One off games GDS2, a cup final is different to 75% of games in a season. We play this way almost every week, nothing changes. Anything can happen in a cup match, but I fail to see the point in having a manager if they don't manage problems, LVG just brings more of them to the table.

Did you enjoy that yesterday Tot66, how about Stoke, Villa, Cambridge, Yeovil, QPR, Southampton, etc, etc, etc?

I am going to petition the Oxford English Dictionary to have the definition of Boring to simply read "LVG's Man Utd"!

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09 Feb 2015 13:28:50
Bang on Syd. When someone's on 250k a week and club captain he has to play. But he's not as midfielder and never will be one. If he's not viewed as the best striker, whether you agree or disagree, then what's the point.

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09 Feb 2015 13:47:48
Good management if you ask me. I mean, he changed it and it worked. Isn't that what top managers do?

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09 Feb 2015 13:48:10
GDS,

It isn't good enough; but I can't help but think that with a few adjustments to the current team set up, the problems will be redressed. Also, some of the players are just not performing. Yes, they are out of position, but Di Maria, Rooney Falcao and RVP are not playing any where near the levels they are capable of. That is a problem that needs sorting. Maybe dropping them for a few games might just kick start one or teo of them into action?

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I agree with Syd's post except for the bit about using Rooney as a number 10. Rooney IS a striker, he IS NOT a number 10, a winger, a CM player. Making him captain made dropping him difficult, especially when it is not going great for the rest of the team aswell. Rooney, along with many, has been shocking for most of the season so far.

Personally, I'd drop RVP and Falcao and go with Rooney up top with Wilson, and Mata behind. If after a number of games Rooney is still not playing as he should, I'd give Falcao another go in his place. LVG needs to show the balls people think he has and drop the likes of ADM, RVP and Rooney, and let Herrera etc take their place. If they aren't showing the quality they have then someone else can have a go for me.

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09 Feb 2015 05:22:10
I would be very interested in playing Valencia as part of a diamond, I remember he has played one game there and was brilliant that game. He is very physical and can run with the ball at pace and is good defensively and I feel could be the solution to our problems.
I would certainly love to have a diamond of Blind, Valencia, Di maria and Herrera.

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08 Feb 2015 19:53:03
I am going to go against the trend and say something positive: Jones and Rojo are going to be an excellent defensive partnership.

Apart from the problems West Ham caused us from set pieces, I thought the defense handled West Ham's attacking in open play very well.

Ironically, our attack is the problem now. That and our unbalanced midfield. Both problems can be rectified with a change in formation or selection.

Rooney needs to go back up front. I really can't see what he gives in midfield.

It wasn't great to watch today, but I think we should have won the game with the chances created. Falcao should have scored and RVP should have bagged two. In all, 18 attempts at goal and 7 on target isn't too shabby away to West Ham. The finishing today was diabolical though.

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Jones is a disaster mate and you should watch the game again. His reading of the game is so poor and he is always one step behind and rushes with wild challenges to make up for it. Watch the age again and see what he did on set plays and tell me he is a good defender:)

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On current form even Berbatov was a better striker than RVP and Falcao.
Falcao has been absolutely shocking, he loses so many balls, he looks slow and he can't even hit the target.
RVP too seems to have lost his edge.
I would love to see Rooney and Wilson both paying uptop with Herrera, Di Maria and Fellaini behind them

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Gcu completely agree i was one of Jones supporters over the years but i think due to jones being played in several positions by Fergie .

Jones doesn't know himself what's his best position and is really clumsy at times.

Oh yeah we drew so my 3.0 prediction went down the drain.

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What do you mean 'even berbatov' the guy was absolutely class, just didn't fit into fergies fast paced wing style play.

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To think Rafael Varane turned us down because we had just signed Jones. Tough to swallow indeed!

P.S Falcao will 100 per cent leave us at the end of the season.

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09 Feb 2015 10:50:56
Smalling is 10 times the defender Jones is. Not to say either is amazing but if you have to pick the best partnership from what we have it's easily Rojo and Smalling.

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Smalling for me is our best defender, he has the height, wins most headers, he almost never gets beaten man on man, he is quick, he is happy to bring the ball out of the area and move forward and when he has had a run of games without injury he is very good. The reason he doesn't get picked (when fit) is due to his poor passing. If he could get ten games without injury alongside Rojo, I think they would be our best pairing. I agree with Shahram regarding Jones, apart from being a few sandwiches short, I think he is one of the clumsiest players around. If he is positioned poorly he then fouls the player and gives away unnecessary freekicks. Jones for whatever reason hasn't kicked on. None of our CB's have to be fair. Evans is the most tragic of all, if he is here past the summer I'd be very surprised. He has always had a mistake in him, but for the past year he has had at least two mistakes per a game in him. Helen McConnell's fault of course :)

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I forgot what smalling looks like as he's injured 99% of the time! !
Jones smalling and evans are all dreadful. I'll get shot of the lot and while we're at it, rafael needs to go as well. Back line needs a complete overhaul.

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Syd

I completely agree Smalling is a much better defender and better in the air.

There is no grace and control to jones's defending and its always looks like he is getting the last inch of his physical ability just to get there.

If anyone paid attention yesterday jones get caught one step behind and in his effort to catch up knocks another one of our defenders also out of position. He reminds me of those bubble head dolls, I swear lol.

Hey every club has them you buy young potential and they don't turn out to be what you had hoped for and he is just that.

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Smalling, Jones and Evans all have to go in the summer never utd quality.

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09 Feb 2015 02:48:45
In the end we showed spirit to come back at the last minute, we must give credit to LvG and the team for that. However whilst it isn't a bad point it could be seen as a missed opportunity given other results. People seem to forget West Ham has always been a difficult hunting ground for us. Saying that sterile draws away from home will not get us in the top four. Given how long we now take to get the ball forward I had time to ponder what happens if Rooney or DiMaria don't put both hands up when taking a corner, will the first defender no longer know it's coming to him?

Levity aside Rooney isn't a midfield player, McNair deserved to play right back in front of Valencia, RVP shouldn't be playing as first choice, Shaw was unlucky and Song should have gone before him. Rojo looks a decent player but conceding is not the main issue, the main problem is that we are struggling to score and shouldn't be so poor creativity wise. I would start by saying we are unbalanced by playing RvP who is no longer good enough. Tv where I am showed a touch map for Falcao During the first half and there was not one touch in the opposition penalty area. For me the jury is still out on Falcao, when he gets the ball his touch looks good but we need to give it him in the penalty area and then see what he can do. Right now £44m seems a lot. Part of the problem seems to be obsession, not philosophy, obsession with RVP meaning Rooney plays in midfield, we don't look balanced. Bring Herrera in and let Rooney play with Falcao, play DiMaria deeper so he can run with the ball. I don't think we are as far away as people say but obsession is what I worry about, obsession with RVP and perhaps Strootman as well. I sense pressure is building, pressure to see a more joined up approach, a better balanced team. I think we can finish in the top four but LVG needs to take the parking breaks off, cut out the obsession with RVP and play a consistent team and formation.

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No world-class player we have bought has looked good in our team for a couple years now. Mata was amazing at Chelsea, comes to us and looks average. ADM comes to MU and looks average. Rooney and Van Persie have looked average. Falcao has looked promising, but at MU doesn't set the world alight. We haven't been playing good football for years now and buying top talent hasn't changed that. I cannot put my finger on it, it's very strange. Part of me wonders if we buy Hummels, Clyne and a midfielder, will we still be playing unattractive football?

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Sydney how can you say Falcao has looked promising but Mata has looked average. Mata has been twice the player in a United shirt Falcao has.

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09 Feb 2015 00:00:41
Hi ed, you said lvg could be gone in the summer. If so who realistically will come in?

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{Ed002's Note - It is too early to say.}

09 Feb 2015 02:17:13
If we make top four would off stay?

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09 Feb 2015 10:39:54
Ed002, Do you know who is under consideration?

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{Ed002's Note - I am not going to go there right now.}

I have read that Laurent Blanc has been mooted by folk inside the club Shappy.

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I have heard someone else is being looked at. Watch fergies' movements and the chance encounters over the next few months:))

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