Manchester United Banter

17 Apr 2024 19:20:16
Looking forward to the weekend.
Our whole season rests on this game on Sunday. Winning keeps our season alive until the final day. Its motivating for the squad they know they will all be fighting for a starting spot in the final. Martinez or Shaw could be back by then.
Can any of us say we are more than 80% confident.

17 Apr 2024 19:59:51
Nobody can Ken. Cov are decent passing side and on the day who knows. We’re pretty awful this season’.

17 Apr 2024 22:02:57
80% Ken that’s optimistic…I’m at around 60% 😂😂.

18 Apr 2024 00:06:43
I'm confident. I think our players will rise to the occasion. That is also why I want half of them gone. They need to play in all games, not just when they choose.

Cant believe I am reading that sancho might consider coming back. What a piece of work. I don't want that stain anywhere near our club. I seriously hope the fanbase it not about to blame everything that is wrong on EtH and give everyone else a pass. We need to clean house and then move forward as one club under a new structure. No thanks to any players our on loan coming back.

18 Apr 2024 00:30:06
Obviously not talking about developmental loans. But the older players sent away on loan should not come back IMO.

18 Apr 2024 09:13:39
You can never be 100% but I'm 99% on this we'll be in the final, then humiliated in the final.

17 Apr 2024 10:50:50
Can I ask who are the toxic players throwing eth under the bus? Who has downed tools and creating dangerous cliques in the dressing room?
I see this spoken about regularly but I'm not sure who this bunch of players are.
I see a team made up primarily of only eth and ole players.
Outside of rash mctom and Shaw nobody else relevant goes back past ole.
So who is throwing eth under the bus this season particularly recently?

17 Apr 2024 11:45:35
I must admit unlike under Ole and Jose I don't see a group of players who are not trying or trying to get the manager sacked.

Two main points why we are not succeeding this season:

1.) We have been decimated with injuries in concentrated areas of the pitch (centre back and left back) .

2.) The manager has been too stubborn with his tactics, I appreciate the plan was to push on from a successful first season and become a more attacking, dominant team with this effective 4-1-5 system but it hasn't worked and that was obvious in September. We are too open and concede so many chances it has become farcical to watch of late.

We are still persisting with this in April, should have gone back to a more defensive set up and seen the season out and make top 4.

17 Apr 2024 11:52:16
I guess it's just a figure of speech that people have jumped on in recent times rather than meaning any specific names. Although two of those names you mention have frequently been seen walking around the pitch in recent times in periods of play that have led to goals, if that (lack of effort) is what can count as throwing the gaffa under the bus.

17 Apr 2024 14:46:51
I don't think anyone is throwing him under anything. His tactics mean we can be dangerous with the ball and without it we have massive holes through the middle and at full back due to the full back attempting to assist midfield. That and players just not up to the job.

17 Apr 2024 14:54:51
I agree spenno it's a figure if speech that gets thrown around with little or no substance.
We have chosen managers badly.
Moyes won nothing of note since and had a couple more sackings.
Lvg has hardly had a job since.
Jose fired a couple of times since and won nothing of note.
Ole not had a job since.
Blind herrera Di Maria sanchez mata darmian lukaku mhyikatarian all have won titles since they were deemed useless players.
We have had bad managers maybe a couple we got post their sell by date.
But they have not got much from any of their new clubs either before being fired again but here some are still blaming the players.
It's not all down to the players.
Alonso took a team in Germany from bottom to top in 2 years spending a fraction and in the main with the group he inherited.
Good coaches get players playing above their ability collectively as a team no matter what the circumstance.
I agree we have had our share of iffy players but all the managers have failed since the same can't be said of all the players.
It's the managers job to get the best out of his squad.

17 Apr 2024 21:19:04
Any manager worth his salt can get a tune out of any players, especially professionals playing in the EPL.

I get we have injuries but the players remaining are, on paper, better than most of the teams in the league and should therefore be perfectly able to understand reasonable instruction.

The fact we have been shown how to play by far worst teams from a player ability perspective speaks volumes.

17 Apr 2024 22:19:48
Tumble what are you smoking?

- Moyes was poor at Sociedad and Sunderland but has done a very good job at West Ham. Probably their most successful manager in 30 years.
- LvG left in his 60s and had a great stint with the Netherlands before retiring due for health.
- Jose didn’t do anything at Spurs and won a minor European cup with Roma, ironically the same cup as Moyes.
- Ole has said he’s not interested in a new role and received multiple offers.

Anyone would fail under the management structure above, the same people who hired EtH and this rogues gallery incidentally.

Losing the dressing room is a euphemism for not being liked and not being able to get the best out of the players.

Hopefully the new team can find the correct coach to lead us to better things.

17 Apr 2024 07:39:06
{Ed's Note - Tumbleweed! has posted a new article entitled, Player Assessment At Manchester United

16 Apr 2024 19:26:15
There are hundreds of talented possible transfer targets. I wish for three things 1) a tactically astute manager who instills discipline into the squad and 2) who buys younger players who he can mould into a long term successful team and 3) gets rid of egotistical under performing current players.

16 Apr 2024 22:26:10
So say all of us Salford.

17 Apr 2024 01:08:49
The potential issue with no2 is that 90% of the players many want to leave are the most experienced of the Utd squad. Could potentially end up the same as Chelsea where there’s no leadership/ experience.

17 Apr 2024 06:15:33
Fuser

I don’t see any leadership now, on the pitch or in the dugout.

17 Apr 2024 11:32:56
ETH got rid of Ronaldo and Sancho so a tick in the box for point 3. Has brought through Garnacho, Mainoo, Big Willy, given Omari a chance and promotes youngsters from U18's to train with the first team including Shea Lacey and others which is a big tick for point 2. Disciplined Rashford, Ronaldo, Sancho, Garnacho incidents which is a tick for part of point 1 yet fans will moan at the handling of these players.

Now the fall down is he tactically astute? Last season beat Liverpool, beat Man City, beat Arsenal, beat Tottenham, beat Chelsea, beat Barcelona, won a trophy, got top 4, is on the verge of back to back FA Cup finals, not lost to Liverpool in 3 games this season. So has shown he is or can be, but there's a lack of consistency unfortunately. But then there has been a lack of consistency in player availability this season so potentially unfair to judge ETH on this. Last season United used 26 players in total throughout the premier league season, Manchester City used the least with 24 players, they won the league.

This season United have used 30 players, 4th highest in the league and guess which team have used the lowest? Manchester City with 25. Arsenal have also used 25. So there is an argument that consistency is an issue but how can you develop consistency when you have had to have 26 different back four combinations in one season?

Fans can absolutely have an opinion on the Managers position, I am still in favour of ETH above other options as are a number of others on here. There are a number who want ETH gone which is absolutely their right to feel this. However, I feel the judgement against ETH has to be done fairly with all situations and scenarios during his tenure taken into consideration. It seems to me that Ten Hag is having to satisfy contradicting expectations from fans. Fan's want in place a style and structure, build for the long term but at the same time, expected to deliver short term results to keep his job but carry out a rebuild whilst doing it. Ten Hag is absolutely open to criticism this season, not least about why United are so easy to play through, but what the past 10 years should have told us is that any manager at United pre SJR, has been set up to fail, SJR has identified and stated this himself.

So to Salford's 3 point wish list, when you look at the points, ETH is meeting most of them and shown the other area can be achieved to. But if it is to be a new manager, then fans need to be prepared for a further inconsistent short term future mixed with, hopefully some trophy success but also some terrible and questionable performances and disappointing seasons.

17 Apr 2024 13:11:21
Ports

he has introduced youngsters out of necessity not choice. Which youngsters did he actually buy? Yes he got rid of Ronaldo and Sancho but have we played better without them? Would Hoijlund not benefitted from learning off Ronaldo? Discipline takes many forms. Sancho is playing well again at Dortmund. maybe a better coach than ETH could have seen him playing well for us. He let Sabitzer go and brought in Amrabat. I bet Amrabat looks a decent player again when he is released and plays for his new team.

Meantime ETH has disciplined and kept Rashford but we have seen no improvement in Rashfords effort or form. Yes injuries of course disrupt a team but when we are conceding so many stupid goals and so many shots per game it is blindingly obvious that the team is either not listening to the managers instructions or his instructions are rubbish.

Either way the result is the same and something has to change or results will not get better. Liverpool have had a lot of injuries this season but are still playing decent football and challenging for the league.

Again as many have pointed out winning a few matches against so called bigger teams shows there is potential to be better but no structure implemented consistently. let's be honest several of our better performances we could and should have lost.

I want ETH to succeed but really am doubtful that he will. It infuriates me when he comes out after mtches when we have got a lucky draw or lost and says that we played well and that there is an improvement. The league table does not lie. We are an upper mid table team at best. The fans are not idiots. We know rubbish when we see it. We know a lack of effort when we see it. Its his very well paid job to fix things not moan about injuries or try to kid us. Look at how Villa, Spurs, Brighton, Brentford, Newcastle play. All with a definite way or ways to play. I defy anyone to say from week to week which way we will play or how well with any real conviction.

17 Apr 2024 14:09:19
Playing well? He scored 0 goals yesterday, 0 assists, lost possession 18 times, won 3/ 10 duels and made 1 defensive tackle last night. Here's the issue, Dortmund have got into the Semi final which equals Sancho is proving ETH wrong is some fans eyes because they just want a stick to beat ETH with. He's got 2 goals and 2 assists for them so far in 14 games. No one supported Sancho more than ETH, people forget the 3 months off he gave him and sent him abroad to help him, yet still not enough. He disciplined Garnacho in pre season and got a response from him, he's disciplined Rashford twice now and got a quick response but not maintained. This IMO speaks more about Rashford than ETH but players appear to be avoidant of criticism and personal responsibility. Why didn't he sell Rashford? Who knows, why haven't we sold Martial? Well reports were Joel Glazer loves him so maybe the decision not sell Rashford is not ETH's choice.

You'd rather he brought youngsters but personaly, if we have the potential why not promote from within? The outcome remains the same and you actually probably get more buy in from a kid who's come from the academy. He didn't need to bring in Mainoo, McTominay has been sitting there all along, he could have stuck with Rashford and Antony on the wings but he's stuck with Garnacho. He's played the most minutes for teenagers this season bar Forest I believe. He could have eaisily played Amrabat instead of Kambawala who has played CB before. He brought in a youngster in Hojlund and was hammered for it.

Of course he's made mistakes, I liked Sabitzer and wish he stayed but for whatever reason he didn't. Perhaps, ETH was promised they'd get someone else in but failed to? But if people are to criticise ETH, tell the whole story and if that's your feelings then so be it but don't cherry pick events.

17 Apr 2024 14:44:28
Ports I respect that's your perspective.
I don't agree obviously.
There is every possibility that eth will be in charge next season as you say let's see what sjr and the team decide and identify as the best option eth or A. N other.
None of us know the real dynamics I'm happy to admit that.
Nine of us know what it's like to work with him or for him.
My perception is that I would not like to work for or with him and I wouldn't like him working for me based on what I see and hear but that could be wrong as I'm not in possession of all the facts or details.
I see a team that is awful to watch and while we did beat those teams you mention last season we were also on the end of a few hideous defeats by them also.
We score less than most teams in the league now over 2 seasons not just this season.
Eth has lost about 1/ 3 of all his league matches over 2 seasons
Our worst ever cl campaign.
Our players are slower and less dynamic than any team I care to mention.
So for every ying there is a yang on the stats.
Rashford had his best season ever last season and his worst this season.
His signings loans or permanent
Amrabat requllion ericksen weggy malacia casimero Anthony have not worked out at all.
Mount and martinez can't stay available for selection
Onana and rasmus there are big question marks over according to ed002 particularly onana.
Bruno has gone backwards like rashford and casimero
Dalot has been put forward as a big success under eth. Really has he?
He has done well with the youth players he has introduced for sure but will he turn garnacho into ronaldo or Anthony (who has had his coaching for 4 years and eth deems him unplayable at times)
So our perceptions of the job he is doing are old apart.
We can agree that he has been unlucky with injuries but fergie and raniere won the league with worse players.
We are not a team and we are getting worse under eth that's my perception.
He has brought in lots of players.
The players don't respond to him.
Remember they are not the same players that didn't respond to Jose or lvg so it's not like they are guilty of throwing several managers under the bus which is what I often hear.
I don't think injuries are enough to excuse our totally inept performances. They don't explain the speed of our play and our tactics.
We did beat Liverpool this season once and drew twice but I'd argue we should have been beaten in at least 2 of the games and we won like the hopeful boxer with a couple of good punches.
I'll be shocked if he is not replaced in the summer in fact I think they're is a very good chance he will leave on amicable terms.
If he stays then I'm happy to acknowledge my opinion and perception is not what the experts are seeing behind the scenes.

17 Apr 2024 20:58:30
Tumbleweed I agree with nearly everything you say. I would venture to suggest that nearly all Utd fans do and pundits on the tv and newspaper reporters too.

17 Apr 2024 23:43:13
pundits on tv and newspaper reporters 😂.

16 Apr 2024 11:44:39
Donny back in June, sancho back in June. Their loan clubs aren't for activating the buy option. Wanting rid of these players is easy, actually doing it is another thing entirely.

16 Apr 2024 12:08:02
Tim I think at worst dvb will agree to cancel his final year and get himself a new club. Just a feeling I have.
Sancho will at worst be loaned out imo.
I think there is an appetite to bite the bullet financially on these. Understanding the dynamics surrounding srp would be helpful to you.

16 Apr 2024 12:17:57
Martial and VdB simply have to go.
Seems a bit of the unknown around Sancho and Greenwood. Can't see either getting a great reception if they return at this point but so much is up in the air.

16 Apr 2024 12:28:13
#spr sorry predictive typo.

16 Apr 2024 13:17:48
Again psr 😊 doh!

16 Apr 2024 14:49:16
We could maybe do like Chelsea and sell some of our property portfolio to ourselves. I can see big changes to psr as the complaints about it are getting louder, though the clubs did agree on them so not sure what they’re complaining about now.

{Ed002's Note - The changes have already been agreed.}

16 Apr 2024 16:42:38
Ed002 are the main changes to the rules around moving away from total club profit to a cap on costs for the players wages, transfer fees, agent fees and other associated costs.
I've read that clubs will be restricted to 70% of total income if you are competing in Europe while sides outside of European comps can spend 85%
Points deduction will remain in place for serious breaches I understand.
It was not from a hugely reliable source that I read it.
Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - It is broadly what has been agreed. There are broader penalties available aside from points deductions.}

16 Apr 2024 17:16:03
@ tim there are a few good articles to read up on if you fancy.
I just put 'psr rule changes in epl' and it came up with a few good articles. 👍.

16 Apr 2024 17:10:06
Thanks ed002.
Looks a positive change from uniteds perspective.
Appreciate the confirmation.

17 Apr 2024 01:18:09
Don’t think much changes from a Utd perspective currently. Utd have the 2nd highest turnover but also the 2nd highest wage bill. Unlike city and others, Utd also have very high interest repayments based on the buyout and transfer funding from previous years. If Utd were debt free, the rule changes would be ideal but realistically even if Utd sold the 15 players most mentioned and saved 50% of their wage bill, it would only allow an extra 75m in transfers. Reducing as players and wage bill increases.

Definitely better for Utd et al long term though.

17 Apr 2024 08:57:10
Thanks Ken. I listen a lot to Simon Jordan and steffen borson (ffp expert) on talksport. They are very good at dumbing down the complexities of psr for dummies like me.

17 Apr 2024 10:00:52
Tim I would day you are no dummy.

16 Apr 2024 21:53:11
Thanks ed as always!

16 Apr 2024 22:52:30
Ken, I listen a lot to Steffen borson who is on talksport. He’s an ffp expert and he’s great at explaining things for simple folk like me. I’m not a huge Simon Jordan fan but when those 2 discuss this topic it’s engrossing and very informative!