Manchester United banter 10

 

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30 Sep 2018 21:17:32
One for the Ed's, do you think Jose will see the season out?

{Ed025's Note - myself no welsh..

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30 Sep 2018 21:44:09
Nor me Ed, who would you think would come in to replace?

{Ed025's Note - thats a tough one welsh...if it were me i would break the bank for pochettino myself, plays good football and knows the league but it wont be easy to get him mate..

30 Sep 2018 22:01:10
I like Poch, I think he’s the right fit, if Jose leaves in the season then it’ll be hard to get a permanent manager in, who’d be in temp control?

01 Oct 2018 09:06:10
If Jose doesn't see out the season which is looking increasingly likely then the club need to be sensible. I would have McKenna and Carrick manage the club until the end of the season while the club looks properly with due diligence for our next manager. We can't afford to just keep lerching from one inappropriate candidate to another.

The worst move we could make would be to sack Jose and hire Zidane.

If it was me the three names near the top of my list would be Pochettino, Howe and Jardim. Younger managers with a more progressive style football. Manager unafraid to play youth players and give them a chance. In short managers who's philosophy is more in line with what our club should be about.

01 Oct 2018 09:48:35
Pochettino has never won anything as a manager, Howe doing a decent job at a much smaller club, Jardim will be getting the bullet shortly at Monaco with the way they’re playing but yeah Zidane would be a terrible choice.

30 Sep 2018 20:54:44
Maybe Rui Faria leaving was a bigger deal than we thought?

Agree6 Disagree3

30 Sep 2018 21:07:28
Had no bearing, Jose falls out with people simple as that.

30 Sep 2018 22:16:45
So you’re saying his assistant had no influence whatsoever? Why are they there then? Since Faria left our Defence has deteriorated and our football is even worse. Must be a coincidence.

01 Oct 2018 09:08:44
Not sure I said that or do you struggle with reading?

01 Oct 2018 09:11:42
Jose has a habit of eventually self destructing, especially in his third season at a club.

However, the loss of his assistant, a man who has been with him practically his entire career will obviously have been a blow to him. Faria was Jose's closest confident. His sounding board. The man to bridge the gap between the manager and the players. With him gone and replaced by Carrick, a man who for obvious reasons will be far closer attached to the players than the manager, that will obviously loosen Jose's grip on the dressing room.

Which in my opinion has probably hastened the creation of the rift between the manager and a section of the players.

30 Sep 2018 19:58:14
For everyone demanding shiny new players or talking about how our players aren’t good enough, take a look at the Ryder Cup. On paper the Americans were miles ahead. More majors, better world rankings by a mile, more wins this season, but they got battered. Team spirit, inspirational leadership, people playing to their potential, all ingredients that helped Europe win. There was probably complacency on the part of the USA but my key points are relevant. Time and again, a weaker team on paper rouses itself and slays the mightier beast. It’s about the team, the culture, application, desire, motivation. Many of those things are currently lacking in our team. Many will disagree with me, but we have better players than we are currently witnessing.

{Ed025's Note - your right AJH...thomas bjorn for manager anyone?..

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30 Sep 2018 20:13:03
We should grow out the Old Trafford flanks to thick rough because that's where teams are out playing us at home. A lake somewhere might help out too.

{Ed025's Note - love it nat..

30 Sep 2018 20:40:43
Would do better if Jose didn’t insist that we play from the bunker all the time.

30 Sep 2018 21:56:09
You lot shouldn't ashamed of yourself making any comparisons to Golf.
Our club is in turmoil, we are currently way below par, and just got beat by the irons. Quite frankly, it's a balls up. And I am tee'd off with it.

{Ed025's Note - love it betty, but there is a fair-way to go this season yet and he might give some fringe players a go even though some of them are a bit green, i know its a radical approach but i dont think it will handicap the team and you will just have to putt up with it mate..well thats my spin on it..

30 Sep 2018 22:27:40
I could chip in with a few more Ed, but I think we should probably call it a day now before it drives everyone else round the twist.

{Ed025's Note - great stuff betty..

30 Sep 2018 23:52:34
Take a bow ed025 that was brilliant.

{Ed025's Note - cheers JS..

30 Sep 2018 17:53:59
I’ll put my head above the pulpit. Now is absolutely not the time to sack Jose. Now is the time for United hierarchy to go full out support of him. To sack him caves in to player power, and I can’t see one single player who I’d keep ahead of Jose. The guy is a serial winner and deserves the chance to win this battle. I’m not even considering the alternatives as sacking Jose immediately puts every replacement at a severe disadvantage - if Pogba doesn’t like them it begins again. Slowly at first.

Yes Jose an egomaniac ( you have to be to manage United), yes his style is at odds with our values. Nevertheless can you imagine the faces and the egos of certain members of the squad if it happens. Sir Matt would be turning in his grave and Sir Alex will be furious.

Pogba must be sent packing first in January. He is the toxic one. Remember. He is an employee, nothing more. He certainly isn’t a world class footballer. The atmosphere will change immediately and the correct notion of the manager demanding respect and pivotal status is preserved. It sends a message to the squad for Jose and the next manager.

Next we need January investment under the longer term vision of an appropriate DOF. Then, and only then, can any thought of Jose leaving be given countenance.

This is more than just next season at stakes. It’s far more. Prestige. History. Values. United. Jose for what it’s worth has my full support.

{Ed033's Note - Maybe you need Trump to make Manchester United great again :)

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30 Sep 2018 19:03:06
Prestige, history, values. And you want to keep Jose, do you not see the irony?

30 Sep 2018 19:15:13
What decent team in world football has won anything with 3 slow cumbersome donkeys in midfield.

30 Sep 2018 19:44:44
Dynasties are built and then fall, only to be built again.

I see no problem, with languishing on the periphery in order to rebuild.

I think as fans of our great club, we have become entitled, as a Liverpool fan posted earlier, we are now Liverpool fans, living in the past and complaining we aren't achieving the same high levels.

Yes I want my club to win everything every season, but I also see the need for evolution and as a club we have to adapt to the new environment.

We just haven't.

And we get frustrated that we aren't winning everything, or indeed, winning full stop.

I don't think Jose is the right man for the job, I never truly believed he would stay for more than 3 years anyway.

We need to be patient, invest in youth, get a DoF like other clubs have done, you can see how City have evolved and adapted, as Liverpool are also now doing.

We seem to want the shiniest brightest new megastar and then we want 5 more, regardless if they can play well together, PSG are a good example of this.

Teams should be built, not bought.

{Ed025's Note - great ethos jonny but in these days of the microwave supporters instant success is paramount, slowly slowly does not catch you a monkey any more mate and rome had to be built in under a day, and unfortunately patience is not a virtue any more.. :)

30 Sep 2018 19:48:06
I am with Timbobon this. While I’m not the biggest Jose cheerleader in the world, you cannot allow player power cancer to set foot within the club. Personally I don’t believe Jose is even in the majority of the fault with these performances of late as he isn’t kicking a ball on the pitch.

1. The midfield is too slow in transition, Matic should be dropped and go with Fred and Andreas.

2. The board failed Jose in the summer, I’m not against him proving a point.

3. I’m sorry, but Pogba is over-hyped. Did he have a good WC? Yes, but that team around him allowed him to focus on one thing and that’s it. The world beaters should be able to have a rounded out game about them, especially those in the midfield.

4. We cannot let the inmates run the asylum, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that if we sack Jose, it will all happen again in a couple of years.

{Ed025's Note - maybe you and tim could start a fan club USS, your members could all meet in a phone box.. :)

30 Sep 2018 19:48:57
Timbo, I’ve been fully behind Jose for a lot of the points you express even tho we are the complete opposite of how I want my club to be in terms of the words Tony lays out above and I’ve been behind jose because I hate the sacking culture BUT it’s got to a point now that I do not see where we are going, I don’t see us challenging and in actual fact we seem to be regressing. I don’t know the ins and outs of what’s going on in the hierarchy as I’m sure there’s more to it and some part of me feels a bit sorry for him but I think I’ve seen enough to know it’s not working with Jose Unfortunately.

30 Sep 2018 19:55:38
Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, it's the players that have the power, now. That's not changing any time soon, so we need a manager who's able to work with that new reality.

30 Sep 2018 19:56:37
Timbo I'm sorry but I disagree completely with what you're saying. So pogba is the biggest problem? Is he the reason that not one player played well Saturday then? You are just looking for a scapegoat by there. If it was a couple of players underperforming then fair enough but the players are playing like they've never met before. I wouldn't be happy playing in that team with that style of play and that's probably why we had a poor summer in terms of transfers. It's Mourinho's job to get the players motivated and playing for each other but he just isn't doing it. I fully expect Valencia to beat us on Tuesday! We as fans are more surprised when we win now as when we lose its no big shock! In Mourinho's interview after the game he seemed like a man who had no clue what to do next.

30 Sep 2018 20:09:09
ED025

I know. and it's such a shame.


I suppose that means I am showing my age. I am now, officially, a grumpy old man.

But City did take a while to get where they are today, it wasn't instant success, and Liverpool have taken a generation too.

The Klopp project has taken a few years, but they turned it around as did City.

Feeling nostalgic and remembering the good old days, when everything wasn't just about money. and football was fun.

{Ed025's Note - i remember those days as well jonny, sadly mate this is the world of today and its certainly not for the better..

30 Sep 2018 20:53:23
I have not previously called for Jose to be sacked, however I feel the only way forward is for him to leave.

It looks like he has lost the dressing room, partially if not totally.

There is usually no way back once that happens but maybe I am wrong.

The Jose and Pogba soap opera is embarrassing and making the club a laughing stock. Not quite at the level of his fallout at Chelsea but heading in that direction.

We don’t have a team as strong as City or Liverpool but with the players we have we should be competing against everyone else and capable of beating most.

We are massively underperforming with what players we have. I an 100% convinced that another coach could improve our results and style of play with the players that we currently have.

For those reasons Jose must now go and I have no issue if Pogba leaves aswell.

30 Sep 2018 20:21:22
Yes AJH. I can. But to my credit I also see the second big picture. Sack Jose to appease Pogba and the next manager should be called, "Pogba Assistant".

30 Sep 2018 21:10:21
Timbo,

Get rid of both.

Seems a good compromise, no?

30 Sep 2018 15:10:26
Ok

1. Mourinho picked McTominay in a back 3 benching Bailly for a mistake made over a month ago. Just to take a piss at the club for not buying him a shiny new Aldeweireld


2. Picking a team without balance and transition from defense to attack and people are surprised.


3. Still employing zonal positioning both offensively and defensively. Constraining players support and making the whole team disjointed. At a point Pogba was surrounded by 3 West Ham players with no teammate in support. He luckily got a foul and was livid screaming at his teammates for not supporting for a pass yet he's the bad one.


4. Obviously, most of of the players aren't playing for the coach any longer.


5. Losing the game 2-0, what does Mourinho do? He takes off Pogba and Martial leaving McTominay, Young, Fellaini and Matic still on the pitch. Were we trying to defend the scoreline or equalize?


6. We practically played with 7 at the back yet were trailing 2-0 down at HT.


7. I'm not going to talk about lack of chemistry, telepathy or choreographed movements as that's a unicorn level wish.


8. Just like Bailly, he benched Alexis just to say “told you so” and justify playing Alexis week-in-week-out.


9. And for those of you slating Pogba for speaking out about playing defensively, what did Mourinho do after the game? Publicly slated Martial. Don't forget that Lukaku, Matic and Young were the worst players on the pitch but he says nothing because they're his loyal boys.



10. Yet if Martial says anything about need to attack, you guys will be the first to chide him forgetting that's what you all want and that's what is screamed down from Stretford End.


Many of the fans think they love the club more than the players. Well that's true but not for all players. Some of these players came through the system and live and breathe the club though may end up leaving but it doesn't make them less of fans.


Even as footballers, they want to succeed, to win to write history so they have more at stake and want to win it more than us.


In that vein, why wouldn't they want to go to a place they believe they can win, where they can play beautifully and be a success? Do you think Van Persie would have come to United if we were playing the way we are now with such a poisonous manager?


And don't give me the argument of effort, it's BS football is not a power sport. A player doesn't need to rub at 100mph. That's why Spanish teams trounces us every time. Liverpool and City have shown that and Sarri will establish it soon enough.


When the system is flexible and accommodates the strengths and weaknesses of its individual components, it consolidates everything and becomes strong. But when a system is rigid and expects all the components to work against their strengths while ignoring their weaknesses then its doomed to fail.

Go figure.

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30 Sep 2018 16:16:10
I agree with every point Yaz. Especially about players speaking out against Mourinho. Anyone who thinks that a player is in the wrong saying Manchester United need to play on the front foot is insane. The first person to publically disrespect the club was Jose after all following the sevilla defeat. Fans and players should have turned on him then. If Woodward had any balls he would have sacked the prick that night.

30 Sep 2018 16:31:53
Who's fault is it players can't make a 5 yard pass?

Jose needs to go but most of this squad needs to follow him. Personally i'd play the u21s from now till the new year.

30 Sep 2018 17:44:24
Yaz, best post I've read in years. Absolutely nailed it. I feel worried at the three people who have disagreed with you. Because, by disagreeing, they're basically saying that Mourinho is in the right. And he most definitely is not.
I don't like Pogba's love of social media, but i will have him in our team any day.
Mort, the reason players can't pass the ball 5 yards is because the system is wrong, and the training and mentality of our manager is wrong. He's the one who shpuld be setting them out to find space for our players to pass to, however, he chooses to play a defensive formation where the players are static and hence the man in possession doesn't have options. This is not rocket science, Barcelona have been doing it for 15years. Fergie's teams did it for 20 years. City, liverpool, spurs are doing it now. It needs training, fitness, hard work, and tactics. Non of these are evident in pur manager's thinking and our team.

30 Sep 2018 19:03:49
It’s both, but we have seen how Chelsea, and even Arsenal respond to new Managers. It doesn’t have to be either or, it can be both.

30 Sep 2018 11:34:24
My love affair with our club started in August 1968 and reflecting on the 50 years that have passed, three things stand out. First we have never truly nailed down a footballing philosophy identity like Barcelona have. Football played by Matt Busby and encouraging our youth is the nearest we have come to it. Second we have never seemed to have a strategy or plan. Lastly, the ownership of the club has never been firmly settled and have always seemed to lack the ambition to be the worlds top club.

We have benefitted from having two of the greatest ever managers but beyond that the club has got itself in a mess so many times.

I have written this a few times on here down the years but there needs to be a defined strategy, a plan, an identity, a philosophy and whilst the full details don't need to be shared there should be communication to the fans about it. However, the communication from our present owners and Woodward is shameful in its absence.

The club are in this mess because they seem to have no strategy, no plan, no philosophy, it looks like for 50 years they have wallowed around and relied on a genius for 26 years. Like having a genius in the team carries the team higher, a genius in the managers chair had the same effect. Many champion David Gill yet where was the strategy, the plan to deal with SAFs retirement?

Now, in Woodward we have a frontman for owners who do not appear to be ambitious for football success but target the brand value. It cascades down, Woodward doesn't appear to be football savvy but a good money generator and that likely matches whatever strategy the owners do have.

Gary Neville has alluded to the issues but points at the start being the sacking of Moyes, however, this mess is dating back long before that, it is a lack of identity and planning going back through my 50 years. The lack of stable ownership, from the Edwards family who tried selling the club to Knighton, the Plc who were caught between success and making profit to the latest mob who have added debt to the club.

Now we are in a corner, sacking the present manager means the players causing issues think they have won. They will play for a new manager but only until he does something they don't like and we change the manager again, that's what they get at Chelsea. If the club appoint Zidane it is yet another confirmation of a lack of strategy and planning, what on Earth is the direction of the club then? Another manager appointed with fingers crossed it will work whilst ignoring the players causing these issues and we can't sack them, until at least January.

This is a first class mess and the owners plus Woodward are the cause and unless there is a change of ownership and CEO this mess is likely to happen every couple of years,

Agree12 Disagree1

30 Sep 2018 12:17:04
RedMan, as you know, i too have been supporting for all that period. Even the side that got relegated played with more endeavour and spirit than this lot of mercenaries.
I hate the philosophy that Mourinho has brought, defend deep, don't lose, don't attack, don't risk. But i also hate the way the players have dpwned tools and given 20% effort. Lack of skill is acceptable, lack of effort and spirit is totally unacceptable.
So if Mourinho is sacked, then the next manager will have to come in and control those irresponsible, horrible bunch of players that we've got. Apart from a few of them, the rest are only here for the money. Patrice Evra understood the United way, but non of the current overpaid, useless persons who wear our shirt are fit enough to lace his boots.
Brings me back to a manager's job, i watch klopp, Pep and Simione in action, and the players seem to have respect for them, these managers have a real connection with the players. Mourinho's man management has been utterly pathetic.
We have reached the point of no return with him. This season is a write off, i can't see us finishing in top 6. So get rid, let Carrick and McKenna take over and the owners have to appoint a dof and manager with the right philosophy to run our club. We need to get rid of a lot of the overpaid persons we have, darmuan, jones, lindlehof, rojo, young and promote/ buy a decent defence. Until we have a solid base, we cannot compete.
Out of the managers out there, i think Pochittino, Zidane and Simione can be considered. They all have their good and bad points. But i do like the way Simione teams run through brick walls for the cause. I also like Pochittino's team tactics. I think it's a choice between these two.

30 Sep 2018 12:17:39
Wonderful post Red Man.

Whilst I can see your point regarding the players and the manager I'm not sure I entirely agree.

Maybe we have to become a Club like Chelsea in order to succeed.

Managers rarely last longer than a few years anymore. Even the successful ones seek new challenges or suffer from burnout such is the pressure to deliver instant and continued success.

Maybe our thinking about giving managers time and craving stability is flawed? I honestly don't know, it's certainly something worth considering.

Otherwise I agree with your brilliantly written post mate. Throughout our history have we ever really committed to being the very best?

We all know what Real, Barcelona and Bayern stand for I'm not sure the same can be said for Utd!

Even City are developing a footballing philosophy, Club identity and commitment to excellence. I have no doubt that their owners are more committed to seeing success on the field rather than increasing their revenue opportunities off it.

Like your little history lesson has taught us, once SAF retired was this really going to end up going any other way?

30 Sep 2018 12:54:34
This Jose / Pogba mess does remind me of a spat between Remi Moses and Jesper Olsen when it is alleged they came to blows in training. Ron Atkinson was asked about it and he denied anything had happened. Pictures were shown in the tabloids and Ron was then labelled a liar and didn't last much longer. Jose is saying everything's ok between Player and Manager but we all know that's not true and so do the press. I still think Jose is the one to get us out of this mess . We have to be UNITED through this 😆😆.

30 Sep 2018 13:27:36
Fantastic posts red man and AAA. Can’t argue with any of that.

30 Sep 2018 14:37:27
I agree Park.

Sadly I can't argue with anything AAA has written. It's hard for me to say that because I honestly believed Mourinho was the man. I think other factors have played there part but I can't argue that his time at Utd is not coming to an end.

As his career has progressed he has become increasingly egotistical and narcissistic. There was a time when he'd do anything to deflect the attention away from his players. He would blame himself, the officials, the pitch, the weather anything to alleviate and divert the pressure away from his players. This invoked fierce loyalty and respect. His players would literally run through brick walls, they loved him. Sadly this is a notion he seems to have forgotten. Now he blames the CEO, his players, the fans, the club doctor everybody and anybody but himself. He now defends himself and reels of his list of previous achievements like a roll call. He hasn't learned from his mistakes at Madrid or Chelsea, he hasn't learnt that conflict and division don't inspire success, he has forgotten the fundamental principles that brought him success.

As Albert Einstein once remarked the definition of insanity is making the same mistakes over and over whilst expecting different results. Maybe somebody should politely remind Mourinho of this fact and give him his P45 at the same time!

30 Sep 2018 14:51:34
Ps - I regret posting the last comment about his P45. It was harsh and I wouldn't wish the sack on anybody. Anyone who I've said more than enough I hope you all enjoy the rest of your weekend!

30 Sep 2018 15:52:59
You echo my thoughts exactly DLIB. I thought this would work out but it is clear it is a marriage of convenience. Unfortunately, I cannot see our dithering and incompetent board being ruthless enough to axing Jose in the immediate future. As usual we will be ill prepared and wait too long before the damage is even more severe and the season is totally lost. Already our season is hanging by a thread and we are scrambling for top 4, it’s only September. For once can we act quickly and efficiently when it comes to a footballing decision.

30 Sep 2018 16:48:01
Well DLIB, Einstein didn’t actually say that. It comes from a book by Rita Mae Brown.

So I guess this means everything you said is discredited. Give Jose a new contract now, and tell him that he’s doing great.

30 Sep 2018 17:30:48
Amazing post Redman.

30 Sep 2018 17:50:35
Well Danny please forgive my ignorance and consider myself reprimanded. No need to discredit me pal I've never professed to posting anything remotely credible anyway 😂.

30 Sep 2018 17:30:48
Amazing post Redman.

30 Sep 2018 23:37:30
Excellent post Redman. Totally agree. We are back to wallowing with Woodward in charge. Things have just been heading ever downhill since he took over, but he's the Glazers' man since he organised their takeover of the club.

30 Sep 2018 09:26:06
The Manchester United and Jose marriage of convenience has never felt comfortable and there has always been a feeling of when, not if, it would all go horribly wrong.

Members of the club and many fans have from day one had doubts about Jose’s suitability. It was hoped over time he’d get the United way, change his character, play the football craved by the fans. Maybe Jose will feel he has never been given 100% support in terms of players signed and money spent.

Certainly the club needs to change and modernise. The board need to invest in a stronger management structure which includes a director of football and then they need to give the new dof everything they need to be successful.

The board also need to invest in facilities for the players, the decor of the club and the area in and around Old Trafford.

Agree0 Disagree2

30 Sep 2018 09:53:30
Apologies I pressed send too soon.

As I was saying the board need to invest in the facilities and area in and around Old Trafford. Ed02 has told us for a long time that the club is drab and uninspiring with a feel of a 1980’s motorway hotel about it. That added to Jose’s negative demeanour must make playing for the club almost impossible. Yes the players should be doing more, and I’m not defending them, but there’s so much wrong before we even get to the playing staff.

Our recent transfer policy has been laughable at best, with an emphasis on martekability and media appeal instead of buying players that make a team. We have an individual in charge of a team of individuals with no apparent unity or cohesion and it shows in our displays.

Jose must go. He looks completely devoid of ideas and fight and has lost the dressing room. Some players need to go. They don’t have the fight and desire to drag the club forward. But there’s so many things wrong and no quick fixes available.

I’d love the board to make a statement, sack Jose, get rid of all the players that don’t take pride in the shirt but more importantly hold their hands up and say they’ve got too much wrong. Until that’s all done, whoever is the manger and whichever players we buy it won’t make any difference.

30 Sep 2018 12:55:24
Send for Big Sam.

30 Sep 2018 12:57:36
Big Sam has a degree in Town planning and an honours in Interior design 😆😆.

30 Sep 2018 21:02:03
Buy a few plants and scatter cushions - you’ll soon see results improving.

30 Sep 2018 08:25:55
Is Mourinho getting sacked or will it take more defeats?

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30 Sep 2018 08:47:18
Speak to the Welsh FA, see if we can borrow Giggs for the interim and see how things go?

30 Sep 2018 09:50:38
They’ll let him leave as soon as we start fighting to stay in the league rather than Championship!

For now just enjoy the amount of defeats will get till then!

Chelsea vs Liverpool  29 September 2018 - How I saw it

30 Sep 2018 08:18:51
{Ed's Note - Seano_ has posted a new article entitled, Chelsea vs Liverpool 29 September 2018 - How I saw it

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Cardiff City vs Burnley - 30 September 2018

30 Sep 2018 08:09:06
{Ed's Note - Reid the Red has posted a new article entitled, Cardiff City vs Burnley - 30 September 2018

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