Manchester United banter 3

14 Apr 2024 22:58:56
It's been said before but unai emery really is a fantastic coach. There's no chance we could get him but he should be on any list we have. Everywhere he goes he has success (other than an unlucky stint at Arsenal), and his teams have a clear style and substance to them. I'm sure he's having a very good ebening tonight ?.

15 Apr 2024 07:09:32
But according to many on here, only months ago we have already got a fantastic coach, yes appears now many have changed there minds! Over a year ago I named the players who were not good enough that included AWB McT McG etc etc, I was given pelters again many have changed there mind. nice you finally woken up and smelled the coffee that ETH is out of his depth.

I was also given stick for questioning ETH demeanour also ability to fall out with everyone, you all said he was a disciplinarian and doing great at it. How’s that looking now?

These players are not as bad as you all say, they are just being told to play with a terrible game plan and tactics and awful coaching. A decent manager would get a lot more from them.

Bruno and Rashford are probably our best two players but you all fallen under this spell that they are rubbish, they are not rubbish it’s what they're being ask to do, same with Casermiro, he is hardly rubbish. but of course the lambs follow.

15 Apr 2024 07:38:45
I'll take Ross county's manager at this point.

15 Apr 2024 08:45:48
Romanian what nonsense about Rashford

He ain’t rubbish he’s absolutely useless and lazy and spineless

Yes ETH isn’t blameless.

15 Apr 2024 12:43:32
Brilliant post Romanian Maverick. On behalf of all of the posters on this forum, thank you for sharing your valuable insights with us, oh wise one.

It’s good to know that none of this is the players fault. I will take back anything I’ve said about Rashford’s work ethic and Martial’s laziness. Rangnick, Ole, Jose and LVG are all to blame. Damn those managers, it’s a miracle that they’ve managed to win league titles and champions leagues before they came to United.

Also thanks for the heads up on “McG”. I haven’t heard of him before, but will surely check him out.

15 Apr 2024 13:03:46
Wazza I think we got a couple of those managers a little past their sell by date in Jose and lvg.
None of our managers let go since fergie have won anything of note since they left and been fired from their subsequent jobs too. Of course only some of them even got another job.
I think it was right they were fired.
Jose did an OK job apart from that eth had a good 1st season.
Lots of our players that were deemed useless and toxic and sold have gone on to win titles and plenty of them.
I'd say the coaches were a bigger problem than the players. Their winning pedigree since their various departures would uphold that view somewhat imo.
I'm not suggesting that all the players are right for united but neither is the manager we have imo.

15 Apr 2024 17:40:42
Its a shame that sarcasm doesn't come through in a different colour font Ken.

15 Apr 2024 17:57:18
If you seriously think that ETH is this such a strong character and full of discipline, don’t you think for one minute he would drop Rashford if he was not doing exactly as ETH is telling him to do… maybe use some more brain power on thinking why he is picked for every game, I’m told he is the best trainer at the club, so hardly lazy!

BTW I said Sancho was an awful waste of money because his attitude…got that right too, even though one big poster on here told me time and time again I did not know what I was talking about he he is great and you even backed him up…. How that turn out!

15 Apr 2024 23:26:42
Wazza, sarcasm is in black text on this site.

16 Apr 2024 18:55:56
Romanian maverick

I didn’t want Sancho and said so on here, I suggested Ousmane Dembele, to much derision.

14 Apr 2024 17:10:18
Let's go through our team, Onana, has settled after a shake start, keep. Dalot, great attitude but not good enough at RB keep for now. Maguire sell, Lindelof sell, Varane sell, Kambala one for the future keep. Martinez keep. Shaw good when fit and can ply CB too as cover, keep. Malacia, looks promising keep. AWB, great tackle but poor positioning, squad player keep for now. Casemero and Ericsen past it, sell. Bruno great worker but needs to more disciplined, keep. Mount needs some game time, keep, Mainoo so much potential, keep. Garnacho, keep, Hojlund, potential keep. Antony good worker, keep for now. Then Rashford, just don't know, maybe another manager can get him back to his best, keep for now. McTominay a squad player, keep for now. ETH not up to it, sack. Along with the players out or loan injured (Sancho, DVB, Martial) we have about 8 -10 players to get rid of, hard to do in the summer but we need to get them out before we can rebuild with young hungry players. Big summer coming, hopefully.

14 Apr 2024 18:42:43
In all my four decades of following Manchester United, I've never seen a clear-out on the scale being spoken about by the majority of fans.
It always used to be a predictable couple in, couple out, maybe 3-4 each way lol.
But I agree. Lots to move on for various reasons, some more likely than others due to contract situations and salary demands.
The squad needs to be trimmed for sure. As for signings, we need at least 4-5 players able to start and play in whatever the style is.
The trouble is it's not clear who's going to be in charge, and therefore what that style or his requirements are.

14 Apr 2024 18:49:49
With international tournament and the changes above ten hag I just don't see there being that much change to the first team. So many fringe players to deal with that I can see a lot of these players back next season.

14 Apr 2024 18:53:46
I've seen Bournemouth Brentford and Brighton go though our team recon enough is enough.

14 Apr 2024 19:56:56
We need a massive reset and if that means a season of mediocrity but the big earners and wastrels have left it is a step in the right direction

We been absolute pony for 10 years so another season of mediocrity won’t make much difference

The first name who has to go is Rashford

If we got rid of Rashford Casemiro and Varane that’s a million pounds a week saved on wages plus Martial and Eriksen that’s another 400,000 a week saved

Sick to death of these players.

14 Apr 2024 21:11:29
Dalot - get rid. An absolute liability. Can't defend. No awareness of danger.

14 Apr 2024 21:18:54
Don't think there will be any takers Blackpool.
Perhaps Chelsea or arsenal but highly doubtful.

14 Apr 2024 22:14:34
Jodler I sometimes think the same then on other periods of form I also see some good attributes.
Tactically he is beings asked to fill in to cm when we attack so he is then not where he needs to be when play breaks down which it inevitably does due to everything being off the cuff so it leaves him badly exposed.
Garnacho took the wrap for it yesterday which may be the case in eths plan but the plan is not sustainable obviously. Its his style. It's his vision. It's the same sort of madcap defending that allowed spurs win a cl semi v his ajax team.

14 Apr 2024 22:18:52
Dalot out and anthony. and that keeper I don't care how much he improved he isn't good enough going forward. And the talk about Southgate surely Jim Bob has more sense I'd rather keep eth.

14 Apr 2024 22:37:23
Tumbleweed, Dalot does make some important positive contributions. He is a Premiership player after all so he must have some things going for him. But we have to remember that he is a right back. Full backs are required to be competent in many areas but their priority is to be able to defend. He just simply does not have a defender’s instincts.

15 Apr 2024 11:20:02
Funny how we all disagree on certain players. For now I'd keep the following. The rest can all do one as far as I'm concerned:

Onana
Bayindir
Dalot
Kambwala (send on loan)
Martinez
Mount
Mainoo
Garnacho
Hoijland.

15 Apr 2024 11:23:11
Dalot is a keep for me. He shows passion for the badge, puts effort in and is diverse enough to cover RB and LB if needed. Its unrealistic to expect an improvement in every position over the next few windows, so I would rather keep a player that wants to play and ship off the ones that don't.

In a more stable, consistent side I think he would be a lot better.

15 Apr 2024 12:01:06
I forgot to include Shaw although his injuries are becoming concerning.

15 Apr 2024 13:40:23
Jodler I agree on the instincts it's not natural for him. That's down to coaching I think.

15 Apr 2024 14:05:17
Shaws checked out again after being asked to lay off the maccy D’s.

15 Apr 2024 14:30:28
Mainoo, Garnacho and Højlund are the only one's I'd say definitely have a long term future at our club.

You then have players like Onana, Dalot, Martinez and Mount who I think probably have a long term future at the club, but due to varying issues from poor form, injury and question marks on where or how they fit in the team, means that they aren't dead certainties for me. Although all should be kept for the next couple of seasons or so.

You then have Rashford, Bruno and Shaw. Players who can be key players, but have either struggled for form or injury. These three should be kept for now, but very much next season should see them playing for their futures. Bruno turns 30 at the start of next season, so isn't a long term option. While Shaw turns 29 this summer and is likely to soon start to decline due to his game relying on his physical traits, they are also likely to decline earlier due to his injuries. So he isn't a long term option. Rashford could be here longer, but that might be because we can't find someone to take on his wages more than due to his performances and impact on the team. Although if he can get his head straight and back to his best form he can be one of the best forwards in the league.

That's 10 players who should be here next season, with 3 of them probably playing for their futures.

The rest need to be shipped out over the next couple of summers. Players like AWB, Maguire, McTominay and Antony will probably get a stay of execution as we can't shift everyone and while none of them are good enough, they can at least contribute to the side as squad options. Players like Amad and Malacia also probably stay yo see if they can get fit and prove themselves to be useful either at first choice or squad options.

That's another 6 taking it to 16 who should form part of the squad next season.

Everyone else should be moved on if a club can be found for them. Not all will, but we need to move as many of them as possible.

15 Apr 2024 16:27:57
MancMan,

Shaw has always been injury prone. Last season was his most consistent season as he managed to stay fit.

If the club got a good offer for him in the summer, I'd sell him.

15 Apr 2024 17:15:47
I’m not even convinced by Rasmus, maybe as number 2 striker but he got a hell of a lot to learn, running all over showing willing is no more than Weghorst done, he is nowhere near the required level to lead the line at a club who supposed to be top 4…. Yes he gets little service, but don’t look great at what he does do, I would like to see if he develops under a proper coach but to me he not progressed this season at all.

15 Apr 2024 21:25:02
Don't we all demand a complete clear out of players when they fail to perform, think we did this last a few years ago with Ole, and then Jose and LVG.

14 Apr 2024 16:42:09
Absolutely fantastic, the women have beaten Chelsea for the first time ever to reach the F. A. Cup final.
Terrific defensive performance in second half, Spurs in the final.
Come on you girl's!

14 Apr 2024 17:27:36
Brilliant ???.

14 Apr 2024 17:46:37
Great news. Let's hope the men can do the same next week. I'm very hopeful.
Great result for the ladies today.

14 Apr 2024 19:17:33
Great performance and revenge for last year…well done ladies! ???.

14 Apr 2024 11:48:27
We are now at the end point of the Glazer/ Woodward disastrous management regime. The season is essentially over, bar a possible cup final against a team that will be highly fancied to beat us, assuming we can get by Coventry, who will firmly believe in their chances. After last season's improvement, this has been an awful campaign dogged by injuries to key players and appalling form by the remaining senior players. The only bright spots have been the emergence of some youngsters. although we are now at the point of risking them becoming totally demoralized. and in the latter part of the season, the goalkeeper.

The manager has been unable to change the dynamic. He's stuck with tactics that have seen us conceding an unconscionable number of shots. Of course, had he decided to play more cautiously, packing the midfield, and committing fewer players to attack, then the complainers would no doubt be accusing him of being a reincarnation of LVG. Perhaps he's simply too one dimensional and unadaptive in his thinking, or perhaps he just doesn't have the quality of players needed, so it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The close season will be interesting. We are not going to be an attractive destination for any top players. The transfer season will be affected by the Euros too. There's so much change required in every aspect of the club perhaps a year out of Europe will be a good thing. The new team, with or without ETH, will be slightly less pressured by an intense schedule to try and acquire a squad capable of successfully negotiating 60+ games in a season.

14 Apr 2024 15:26:03
Manchester united will always be a top attractive destination. End of story.
We need to go after the people we actually need, and who actually want to play for Manchester United. Those are the 2 criteria for all transfers.

14 Apr 2024 15:59:14
jimbobred

I think if you think that's the end of the story you need a dose of reality. Were not a attractive club to come to unless its with wages on offer. Weve been poor for a decade and most players that have joined have found there career and reputation decline with us.

14 Apr 2024 20:33:47
Agreed W16 we are attractive for a financial point of view, and that is the main reason so many big names have joined us over the past decade.

14 Apr 2024 22:56:43
True in a lot of cases wazza. The glazers gave the keys of the sage to the wrong men.

14 Apr 2024 23:15:28
Again, there is a process in place, the big earners will be on borrowed time, and the fundamentals of being Manchester United will shine through.
Manchester United is still a top attraction, for players and supporters the world over. End of story.
If you think otherwise, go and support Villa once they secure top 4.
Plastics.

14 Apr 2024 11:37:11
While we all hope that this summer will be a big one in terms of rebuilding the squad, we have to be realistic! How many of our players are we going to be able to sell especially for the fee and wages asked?! Let's face it they aren't exactly painting a positive image, the performances and effort of most have been way below standard so why would anyone else want them? Temper your expectations for most likely a large number of them will still be here come August.

14 Apr 2024 17:00:26
Well Martial will be off so that's a great start, Casemiro and Varane need to go but unless Saudi clubs come in then wages are going to be a problem, I think AWB needs to go he is a great tackler but that's about it.

Then there is the if you get the right offer for them let them go, that would be Maguire, Rashford, McTom, Pellestri and Anthony.

14 Apr 2024 11:33:39
6 points from the last 21.
On the brink of 8th place if West Ham win today.
Question - would be genuinely be better to remove the manager now and put an interim in charge for the remainder of the season? If have no idea who it would be, but could the tactics or desire be any worse than they are right now?
You often see a bounce when such appointments are made. Maybe enough to at least keep in the fight for sixth.
Genuine question.

14 Apr 2024 12:00:12
I see your reasoning, but for financial reasons it won’t happen! If it were me I would let him go now rather than let this fester for another 2 months.

14 Apr 2024 12:07:51
Would you rather spend £15m today on Dan Ashworth or removing ten Hag?

14 Apr 2024 12:35:55
I'd absolutely pay the £15m for Ashworth now.

14 Apr 2024 14:51:34
Sack him now and if it’s to be Potter he can get started now.

14 Apr 2024 15:12:13
Id do both…?.

14 Apr 2024 16:19:10
An interim new manager bounce isn’t guaranteed. Need only look at what happened to Chelsea after Potter was sacked. They got even worse under Lampard.

14 Apr 2024 16:39:04
We need to adhere to the rules.

14 Apr 2024 17:04:19
I would say if we lose our next game to Coventry and go out of the Cup then he must go then but the fact that our new CEO, DOF and technical director are not at the club yet will probably mean he is here till the summer.

14 Apr 2024 19:19:22
What rules are those Ken?

14 Apr 2024 20:45:21
I'm not an expert Tim.
But you are only allowed to lose a certain amount of money over a 3 year period concurrent (I think)
We have been sailing very close to a points deduction or at best falling foul of those rules.
An exit spend of eth's and staff payout will run to millions. Ideally on next years book. Next funancial year starts July 1st.

15 Apr 2024 09:48:27
It really is a bizarre system. Wish I could count on a £15m payout if I was crap at my job and facing the sack, I might try a little harder to fall out with people.

14 Apr 2024 11:11:16
Moving away from what is happening on the pitch I want to ask the question would our squad be better now if we hadn't kept players who weren't good enough for so long.

Moved them on and keep the squad size down and enable us to give some of the academy players more game time for them to develop.

This season we can look around the EPL and see several of our former academy players thriving and playing well for other clubs. All of them playing consistently at a better level than many of the players we have been playing each week.

James Garner has become a regular at Everton and is developing nicely. I wonder whether he'd be even better now than he is if he had more game time over the past couple of years.

Looking at how Casemiro has declined this year and the fact we have no one bar Mainoo who can play as a deeper midfielder, would Garner not have been a better option than Casemiro this season? He's certainly playing better than the Brazilian.

You then have Teden Mengi looking very good in a battling Luton side. He's arguably been one of their best players alongside the likes of Doughty and Barkley this season. Still only 21 and certainly his qualities would have seen our defence be able to play a higher line and maybe concede fewer shots. Did we keep the likes of Jones, Bailly and Lindelof around for too long blocking his pathway?

Finally there is Anthony Elanga, 5 goals and 8 assists for a struggling Forest side. Only Bruno Fernandes (14) in our squad, has more goals and assists than Elanga's 13 in the EPL this season.

Would he have not been a better option to Antony or Rashford at times this season?

We have seemingly allowed him to leave, while we have hoarded the likes of Sancho, Antony, Pellistri and Amad over him. Possibly because we spent big fees on those players. Yet he has easily outshone all of them with regular game time this season, mostly playing on the right hand side as well.

Now I'm not saying any of these three players are or will ultimately be good enough for where we want to be. Just that with game time they are showing themselves to be better than many of the players we currently have in the side.

Seeing them flourish with regular games at rival EPL clubs just goes to further highlight the flaws in having a bloated squad and the lack of foresight in keeping players on the books for financial reasons over footballing ones.

Would our squad be perfect with Garner, Mengi and Elanga in it over the likes of Casemiro, Lindelof and Sancho? No it wouldn't, but it would be better than what it is now.

We have 36 players on the books in the first team squad, that needs to be trimmed down to below 25 this summer so that the next batch of talented academy players don't see their development stagnate, forcing them to leave to reach their potential like Garner, Mengi and Elanga have had to.

14 Apr 2024 11:55:41
Kambwala, Shappy, Kambwala.

14 Apr 2024 12:52:16
Ork, I agree he needs game time. The question is where that will be most beneficial for him.

Players like Garner and Mengi stagnated because we kept them for a season and they hardly got a kick.

Both players needed to go out on loan as we had too bloated a squad to be able to give them the number of minutes they need.

I'm all for keeping Kambwala here next season as long as it's either as a first choice or at most a 3rd choice option at CB.

That means he has to play at least 1000-1400 minutes of football next season. If he doesn't play that many at a bare minimum then we will be restricting his ability to develop and reach his potential.

I want him to be a success, to do that he needs to play.

If we keep him in the squad as 4th/ 5th choice and he only plays 300 minutes of football then we will be ruining his chances of maximising his potential.

He's at a key age, physically he looks ready to play men's football. He clearly has the talent and skills to be successful at the highest level. Now he needs to play to show he has the mentality to cope with the demands and have the opportunity to make the mistakes he needs to make to learn how to play his position to an elite level.

Without that game time the mistakes he made yesterday will stay in his game and he won't be able to iron them out.

Keeping him and playing him regularly next season means accepting he will make mistakes. Mistakes that will cost us points and ultimately might be the difference between finishing in a UCL or a Europa league place next season.

That's all part of the parcel of developing young players. They cost you points at times during a season, or they make the mistake that gets you knocked out of a cup. Hopefully they learn from it and become better players because of it.

Garnacho for example has just as much potential this season as he had last season. Yet it's the consistency of minutes that have seen him rapidly develop from a impact sub last season to a player who can consistently perform across the whole 90 minutes this season. Although I also feel a change in position from left to right has forced him to play with his head up more, adding greater variety to his game. He certainly has a better impact on the team when he plays on the right compared to the left.

If we want to see Kambwala have a similar development trajectory to Garnacho and Mainoo then he needs to play a similar number of minutes. It's that simple.

A pathway into the first team isn't always about just throwing out those players who aren't good enough and chucking a youngster into the squad in their place.

It's about carefully planning the best route for a player to develop to the point where they can regularly play in the first 11 to the standard required.

For Kambwala that might mean a loan next season to a carefully selected club where he'll play most weeks and ideally in a similar style to what our first team will play. Helping him develop the skills and understanding needed to play the way the first team will need him to play. While he's on loan that probably means keeping one or even both of Lindelof and Maguire to be that 4th/ 5th choice option next season.

They can be the ones to play 300-500 minutes for United across the season, while Kambwala plays 2000-2500 minutes elsewhere. Giving him the game time he needs to develop and be ready to hopefully come back to the club and be the replacement for Lindelof/ Maguire for the 2025/ 26 season and push to be the first sub/ rotation option at CB or even push to be first choice.

I think the game yesterday highlighted that he needs more game time a development to be ready to play regularly for the first team to the level and consistency required.

If he's going to struggle and make simple mistakes against a midfield table side like Bournemouth, then he will likely cost us too many goals to be a regular starter next season.

We need to be realistic about how and when he will be ready for us, we then need to plan a pathway for him that means he will get his chances when he's ready to be step up and be a regular starter.

He also has it a little against him compared to the likes of Garnacho and Mainoo in that they can make mistakes without it likely leading to us conceding a goal. Kambwala doesn't have that luxury, which is why I think he needs a loan next season. Let him play somewhere where he can make these mistakes and learn from them, so that when he comes back those are mostly ironed out of his game and he's ready to compete for a regular first team spot.

There are few fans on here who are a bigger supporter of youth at our club than me. Ideally my dream would be to have the capability to field a first 11 of academy players, all of which are good enough to be first choice in a title winning team.

However, I appreciate that for them to succeed that they all need a personalised pathway to progress into the first team. That there needs to be a balance between creating space for the youth to get chances, but also have a squad capable of challenging on all fronts so that when the youth players get a chance, they have quality players around them to learn from and to support and carry them at times through a game so they can develop.

It's a balancing act underpinned by a desire to develop young players along with an understanding of how to give them the space and opportunities to grow.

14 Apr 2024 22:08:19
For reference and simplicity ?

500 mins = 5-6 games
1000 mins = 11 games
2500 mins = 28 games.

15 Apr 2024 11:21:50
James Garner do me a favour Shappy.

14 Apr 2024 09:31:30
One win in seven EPL games, sixth position, 10 points off Spurs and now West Ham are closing in, Chelsea too. Our worst finish was under Moyes, seventh.

It was put to ETH after yesterday that below seventh would be the worst EPL finish, and did he think we would finish above that. ETH stormed out.

Time is up.

14 Apr 2024 10:41:06
7th place, potentially 8th by this afternoon.

14 Apr 2024 10:48:55
I think the writing is on the wall unfortunately. This is starting to have the same feelings as it did in the final weeks of Moyes, LvG, Jose and Ole.

I think EtH knows he will not be manager next season, I think the players know he won't be manager here next season, and I think the press know he won't be manager next season, meaning we have this awkward dead man walking situation.

It won't get better this season, and nothing will happen any time soon. We just have to ride it out for the next month or two until the situation is sorted.

14 Apr 2024 10:55:21
Shappy, every one of those names had different characteristics. The common theme is the players remain whilst the boss gets sacked. Funny old rinse and repeat procedure.

14 Apr 2024 11:28:27
Feasibly, if we play as poorly as we did yesterday, even Bournemouth themselves could catch up with us.


On paper, our next two PL games are winnable, but even Sheffield United and Burnley will fancy something from OT.
Then what?
Away at Palace and Brighton, home to Arsenal and Newcastle - with our current form, I'd be surprised if we got a solitary point from the final 4 games.

14 Apr 2024 12:07:38
Fizz, I think EtH is potentially the best manager we have had post SAF. Or at least the best potential fit for our club.

Yet the way the club has been run top to bottom has made managing our club an impossible task.

Competing at the highest level is hard enough when you have a well run club, it's simply not possible with a badly run club. Certainly not in the competitive environment that is the EPL. Too much money and too many other clubs ready to pounce if you drop your level even by a few percent.

The players are a problem, but I don't entirely blame them. I'm sure they aren't playing badly or lacking motivation because they want the club or the manager at least to fail. They are professional sportsmen, they are super competitive by nature. It's not possible to become a professional footballer without that competitive desire.

I do however believe it's not impossible to lose that drive in the wrong environment. To become too comfortable, unchallenged, and devoid of that fire in your belly.

Do we give the players too much, too soon? Yeah, almost certainly. Big contracts handed out like candy in the playground.

While the clubs decision to hoard players, to not let those who aren't good enough leave (or push them out), means the managers have had to deal with having too many players and not enough time to focus on developing them or a team identity.

Anyone whose tried teaching will tell you, explaining an idea or theory to 10 people and getting them to have a clear understanding of it is far easier than trying to do so with 30 people.

The bloated squad will therefore make it harder for the manager to get his ideas across clearly, and limit his time with each player individually to help them gain a greater understanding of their role within the team. What they need to improve on and how they can do it.

It is also much harder to create a strong team mentality in a bloated squad. Too many players who are on the periphery of the team, knowing they will get limited chances and become demotivated. That sees a drop in the level they train at, which means the first team players are not being pushed as much in training. Which limits their ability to be pushed into peak form.

You then have your little cliques forming, maybe by nationality or common spoken language or culture, or maybe their role in the squad, or due to personality and shared interests. It's impossible to create a strong team dynamic when there are groups within your group. It brings into question where your loyalties lie. Who do you back when you have to choose between the good of the team and one of your mates from your clique?

Has Rashford for example been adversely impacted by the Sancho debacle? Who does he support in that situation? The manager and the team, or his friend?

All the best (certainly the most successful managers) tend to want to work with a smaller group. Jose said he wanted 20 outfield players and 3 goalkeepers. Pep and Klopp have strong squads, but not massive ones. Arteta reduced the size of the Arsenal squad during his time at the club, making it smaller but with higher quality.

You then also have the issue that we have a disjointed squad. I refer to it as the Frankenstein squad, made up of different parts from different managers. There is no clear coherent theme or style of player, making is particularly difficult to choose a style of play that will get the best out of the players we have.

There is no manager in existence who could make this group of players successful under the circumstances that they would find at our club.

There are too many problems, no support from above, and no plan or vision to work towards.

In my opinion EtH has done the best job of keeping the plates spinning under the circumstances he has faced. Is he a perfect manager? Absolutely not, he has his flaws just like any manager.

SAF was probably our best ever manager, yet he still had flaws. He was tactically limited, and would rely heavily on his revolting door of assistant managers to bring in new ideas and help evolve the team to suit the changing game. He could be too outspoken at times, and picked fights he shouldn't have. Such as the one that opened the door to the Glazers buying the club. He also made mistakes by allowing personal opinions to dictate decisions too much. Like giving chances to academy players who signed up to his son's agency, or falling out with certain agents, meaning we couldn't get deals done for their clients, or throwing out members of the media from press conferences leading to an increase in negative media stories around the club.

No one is perfect, even the best. It's about finding the right fit and having the foresight and drive to put into place plans to mitigate those weaknesses or potential flaws.

Like hiring tactically intelligent coaches to support a manager who isn't as tactically knowledgeable.

Or having a clear hiring structure that doesn't give the manager too much power.

Or having someone acting as the bridge between the academy and the first team, someone who can help the club create pathways for the young players to get into the first team.

All of these things are what the new owners are trying to put into place at the club. Highlighting how lacking the club has been in being able to support a manager and create an environment where they can succeed.

EtH has been given too much sway in our signings, possibly because he was aware of the club's poor recruitment and he didn't want to be saddled with players who he didn't want. He isn't an expert in terms of recruitment, it's not a strength of his, yet it's something he has had to do because the structure at the club doesn't support the manager with a good and consistent recruitment plan.

Personally I'd like to see EtH be given a chance with a well set up club. A club that supports him and gives him the chance to succeed.

However, that can only happen if both the manager and the club are willing to work together with a new structure in place.

While there is also a tipping point, a moment where too much water has passed under the bridge and the club and the manager will need a clean break.

A point where too much has happened and it is no longer recoverable for a manager. Maybe too many bridges have been burned, or he is perceived as being undermined and not in control by the players. At that point it becomes too big a task, probably an impossible task to get things turned around and going in the right direction.

Maybe that point has been reached with EtH, if it hasn't yet it feels like it is coming soon.

While I don't want him to fail, and I am certainly not enthusiastic about the potential replacements mooted, if he has or does reach that point then it is best we part ways sooner rather than later.

I think with the right set up and support around him EtH will be a very successful manager. That maybe here, but is looking more likely that it will have to be somewhere else. His style of play and his personality to me suggests that Germany and the Bundesliga might be the best fit for him. Somewhere where a high pressing, transitional game is commonly used and understood by the players. While players due to the culture tend to need less mollycoddling.

I'm still supporting the manager and not calling for his head. But I'm starting to see signs that this might well be the end of the road.

14 Apr 2024 13:11:10
On what metrics do you compare to come to a conclusion that ETH is the best manager we have had since Sir Alex?

It's surely not on how the teams play, the results, the team cohesiveness, the recruitment or even the past record before joining Man Utd. Really curious.

14 Apr 2024 15:19:10
Fizz what players are you talking about.
Only Shaw and rashford stretch back to all managers?
Who are theses players.
Mike, sanzhez darmian Di Maria blind lukaku all won titles since they left.
Moyes no title
Lvg no job
Jose no title no job
Ole no title no job
Ralph no title gone to intl
Who are the players your talking about throwing several managers under the bus
Casimero only played under eth
Anthony only played under eth
Rasmus only player under eth
Mount only players under eth
Malacia only under eth
Onana only under eth
Amrabat regullion like wise.
Garnach mainoo only under eth
Maguire varane awb only under eth and ole
Dalot and lindelof mctom only back to jose is it these 3 your refer to?
Bad managers won nothing of note since they left but you still blame the players and not them
Now we have new players and they are at fault not the manager.
You have taken a stance to blame players for throwing several managers under the bus but it's simply not the case.

14 Apr 2024 16:42:45
Jog on fella. Weed you know what I meant but you just have to be obtuse, don't you? You appear to enjoy stalking people. Must be time to try the "Because he will be eating out of a lunchbox on his own. " gag again. Been a few hours now. It might get funny eventually. Jog on fella.

14 Apr 2024 17:50:33
But which players are you referring to? They are not the same players.
I honestly don't think the players are throwing eth under any bus.

14 Apr 2024 18:38:20
Weed I’m becoming past caring what you think. I’m done playing chess with a pigeon.

14 Apr 2024 21:07:36
Another top top post. Great craic. ?.

14 Apr 2024 22:04:15
Tumbleweed, a group of players can have new members come into their clique, as others leave for instance.
It only needs to be 'the cool group's or whatever to lure in another unsuspecting culprit.
I have zero idea who it might be. It could start with a group of underachievers from the England setup, with a sprinkling of others brought in and out as they are bought/ sold. The mission remains the same. stay on inflated wages for as long as possible, whatever the outcome of the club/ manager.

Don't try to pinpoint posters, it does nothing for you or the forum.

14 Apr 2024 23:04:15
Jimbo I didn't pinpoint anybody. if you happen to disagree with the same person repeatedly it's OK to do so. I've no issue when fizz pokes his type of humour.
I don't think the players have downed tools for eth I think they may be confused and disillusioned and unhappy in their game.

15 Apr 2024 16:03:20
Copy that Tumbleweed, that last statement was more some general advice to all posters ??.

14 Apr 2024 07:02:04
“It's been one of our concerns, maybe [we need to] try to be more compact as a team - don't try to make the gap between defenders and midfield too big. Sometimes it is, and they counter on the counter-attack. It's something we have to improve because it's been nowhere near good enough for the level of this club. ”
- Dalot

Is the penny finally dropping? One of our best players this season finally calling out the managers tactics. Maybe it’s not over for Eric yet, but I think the supporters are on the pitch. I seriously hope so as that was yet another 90-mins of rudderless suicidal football that - yet again, we somehow scraped a draw from.

One more game to pass 600 shots against for the season. Second worst average shots against in the entire league before start of game. Marginally (0.2) better than Sheffield United! Worse than Burnley. God help us.

Wake up INEOS.

14 Apr 2024 08:17:49
Eth has to be sacked.
Getting worse day by day.

14 Apr 2024 09:44:12
What's the point as sacking him now? Who finishes the season? There's still an FA cup semi to play there should be a final there's no chance it's done before that is decided, lose to Coventry and we may get a decision but I imagine it'll be ten hag for the rest of this season either way.

14 Apr 2024 10:17:41
Get rid now. Let the tea lady plan the tactics against Coventry. Must be an improvement!

14 Apr 2024 10:43:37
It’s not as if we’re conceding amazing goals, they’re all of our own doing and a lack of basic fundamentals like running and even reasonable effort.

14 Apr 2024 10:50:37
The reason there is such a big gap in front of the defence is they are slow and reluctant to move up field when we attack/ have possession.

That's not down to the manager, that's down to the players not having the ability or being unprepared to follow the tactics due to the fear of their own limitations.

14 Apr 2024 11:09:14
And who’s fault is that?

14 Apr 2024 13:05:10
Seen an article last week about Gullit pulling his tactics to bits when he was Ajax manager, saying its ok when things are going well but as soon as you lose the ball the other team can just run straight through you, Gullit goes on to say about just having a defensive midfielder sit in there would stop that.

Now look at what's happening in our games we attack, our defensive midfielder is one of the highest up the pitch and then we lose possession and teams are running right through against two defenders because everyone else has just pushed up field.

Ten hag goes on to defend his tactics like he is now and Gullit says to him you're giving the opponents so many opportunities. It takes just one extra player [defensive midfielder] to secure the midfield.

So if he was playing this way at Ajax and getting criticised for it why was it not a red flag.

14 Apr 2024 13:12:57
It is absolutely down to the manager to choose the tactics to have the best outcome from the team and options they have.

14 Apr 2024 15:21:02
Shappy it is of course down to the manager.

13 Apr 2024 20:55:48
Thats where we are at. Like a mistake bore game where U get mistakes from players and coaches and end up with a point,
Eth lucky I'd say that penalty wasn't given or he would be on his way Monday morning. With no help on the pitch from a bunch of average players, same thing as the last few managers we had.
All and all a disgrace to football and the badge.

13 Apr 2024 21:57:58
As with all recent games, it was poor, but even within a dreadful team performance Casemiro stood out for one of the worst, lowest effort, lackadaisical, inept performances by a supposedly top class player that I've ever seen. Shameful. He's either injured, in which case he shouldn't be selected, or he's not trying. We would be better playing anyone other than him. What must Eriksen and Mount be thinking sat on the bench? Why not give Dan Gore a go? I don't know what's gone on with Casemiro this year, but he's a disgrace to the club and the shirt at the moment.

13 Apr 2024 21:58:34
No leahy are you blind?
Don't panic it's all part of the process.
Eth performing Jeff mind tricks telling us what we are seeing is bit really happening.
Throwing one of our better young kids under the bus today in his post match interview after 6 months of watching rashford not defend at all.
There arevtraits in him that are simply bot likeable . I would never trust him as a player. He is only around the corner from his next row with a player.
He is gone he knows he's gone and the players know he is gone.
I can not think of one compelling reason to keep him after the financial year ends on June 30th.

13 Apr 2024 22:00:30
I’ve nearly given up caring! I’m just so numb to this group of players. Other than the odd one or two they aren’t a very likeable bunch and as for eth…I think it’s best we move on.

13 Apr 2024 22:06:19
One statistic about United giving 3X the number of minutes to teenagers compared to the rest of the top 6 combined tells its own story. We simply do not have enough mature quality players available to us. Since ETH must be as aware as anyone of our midfield porosity one can conclude one of two things: either, he does not know how to fix it, or, its not fixable with the current squad available to him. I'm leaning towards the latter. Can anyone see Pep or Klopp getting consistently good results with this team, which has 3 of the back 4 starters out, a slow and rapidly declining midfielder in Casemiro accompanied, by an 18 y. o in midfield, 2 young forwards + 1 sulky senior player, and a captain who as talented as he might be, tends to give the ball away too easily and quickly (despite playing well today)?

That said, today was dire, although there was some improvement in the 2nd half. The only bright spots were Onana and Bruno. Onana is no doubt benefitting from the extra practice he gets every game behind a midfield and a defense that seems to think giving the opponents shooting practice is what the game is all about.

13 Apr 2024 23:18:42
I’ve never hated a united team before

But these players are a joke

The worst bunch of professionals

Yet again throwing another manager under the bus

Sure ten hag has made some mistakes but you know what when you put that shirt on you fight for your life

I just hope ineos have the bottle to throw these players under the bus like they have to so many managers.

13 Apr 2024 23:20:20
What are the players and management doing week in week out in training? We are so easy to play against its mental. Robertson had a field day on the left wing last weekend and again today down our right side. I was all for sticking with Ten Hag but I think the writing is on the wall now but its like deja vu with this squad and what they done to previous managers. I would literally keep 3 or 4 of this current squad.

13 Apr 2024 23:34:14
Sick of watching the same old tripe now, how he can say it is obvious the way we play well I think its about time he let the players in on it because not one of them has a clue.

ETH every week trying to tell us we played well and was unlucky, i think he is watching his coaches play FM24 because he can't be watching the same match as all of us.

Again Rashford not arsed, gets the ball and gives it away, Casemiro supposed to be the holding midfielder and is the highest up the pitch every time we lose possession, he is past it and needs to be let go.

One thing I keep thinking about is are the managers hands tied with who he has to play because any other manager would not be playing Rashford and Casemiro on there performances of late, is he being told the big earners have to play, nothing would surprise me at our club.

14 Apr 2024 02:18:02
Agree with that tumble. Disgusting what he did to Garnacho today. He did play poorly first half, and they did cause problems down that side. I do agree with teaching garnacho accountability.

But how can he treat Garnacho like that when rashford and cassemiro are stinking up the pitch as they have all season. Rashford and cassemiro off at half time and I'm pretty sure we win that game.

Then after the game he calls out Garnacho in his interview. Well done eric, mainoo, dallot and garnacho are our players of the season this year. Maybe sub off the older players and see what these guys can do. They might just suprise you.

After the finish at the Liverpool game I thought he might try to get Garnacho and Amad on the pitch at the same time. All we want is a glimmer of a silver lining around this big black cloud. Thoroughly depressing.

14 Apr 2024 02:20:05
Jim Reaper

If he is scared to bring them off, is he the right guy? I agree it is baffling. I really want to change the players, but ten hag is losing the fans now by not at least subbing players off for this nonsense.

2 subs today I think? Has he given up?

14 Apr 2024 07:25:47
I don't see how he can publicly blame Garnacho when he had Dalot trying to help midfield and leaving massive holes at the back.

14 Apr 2024 07:39:32
"It was too easy on the right side. There was a big gap. It was clear and obvious.
"We had to repair the right side. We didn’t play well. We had to bring a sub there.
"Garnacho was ill in the week and wasn’t training. We thought to bring some energy and quality, and the sense of cooperation on the right side. "

The last sentence is the key. Where in that is ETH "Throwing one of our better young kids under the bus"? Or where is what he said. "Disgusting what he did to Garnacho today. "?

I think a bit of a reality check might be in order.

14 Apr 2024 07:54:00
I see Garnacho liked a tweet from Goldbridge criticising TenHag for throwing him under the bus. There are rumours he dropped Antony altogether for arguing with him about not playing in front of Rashford. Throwing a 19 year old under the bus, who has given everything in what is Ten Hags tactical dogs dinner, is frankly disgusting. No wonder the players are not playing for him.

ETH, has to go, now, tomorrow, we cannot let this man destroy more players just because it will cost us money now and not on 1st July.

His decisions on Rashford, throwing one of the only bright lights under the bus is now too much. He is damaging the team, the club with this nonsense now. Trying to justify his tactical rubbish with what amounts to an emperor's new clothes argument is insulting. Whilst many of the players don’t seem to be playing for him or believing what he is telling them, players like Garnacho have run their socks off, watching Rashford sloth around. Mount sat on the bench and must be wondering what’s going on.

It now looks like the manager has alienated another player. There is a saying, if you meet an arsehole you have met an arsehole, if everybody you meet is an arsehole then maybe you are the arsehole. Ten Hag is there now and I am more than done with him.

14 Apr 2024 08:38:16
Fizz you are the one that needs areality check.

14 Apr 2024 08:52:40
Fizz

So why did Garnacho like a tweet criticising Ten Hag for throwing him under the bus?

Then look at the words “ We thought to bring some energy and quality, and the sense of cooperation” .

Some quality, what does that say about Garnacho? Cooperation, that is a clear criticism of Garnacho.

It’s broken, the trust between players and manager is broken, add to what Dalot said and it’s clear the players are not playing for him. Garnacho has run his socks off yet the idiot leaves Rashford on to mope around.

It’s a mess, get ETH out today, tomorrow, don’t wait.

14 Apr 2024 09:44:49
Red Man.
Then look at the words “ We thought to bring some energy and quality, and the sense of cooperation” .

Some quality, what does that say about Garnacho? Cooperation, that is a clear criticism of Garnacho.

There is a language issue there in terms of how he might put his point across and I doubt he meant to 'criticise. I think he was simply saying it as he saw it and used the word quality in the wrong context. It was clear to all that there was a problem and Garnacho was not on his game.

Weed I don't like what I see any more than other supporters do but a hysterical witch hunt is not the way forward in my view. I do not believe this is the right time to sack a manager given all the upheaval the club is currently undergoing. Nobody better is available so all that would achieve is utter mayhem.
I get you don't like ETH.

14 Apr 2024 09:45:55
Red Man, why did Garnacho reconsider and unlike said tweet?

14 Apr 2024 10:20:09
Fizz

Likely Garnacho didn’t want to be drummed out of the club by a vengeful spiteful manager, because like I said, it’s happening again. However by liking it in the first place he showed what he was thinking.

The problem was ETH and tactics, why was Cas further forward and not covering, why was Dalot not able to deal with anything, why did no one tell Kambwala to step across to help his fullback, why did ETH not swap full backs, why did he leave the utterly useless Rashford on the pitch, where was Antony.

Garnacho having to run back was because the managers tactics empty central midfield, there is no cover coming across and behind. Garnacho and Rashford are expected to run forward then hurtle back, Garnacho tries, Rashford doesn’t, but who gets taken off? Why is Mount sat on the bench? I watched Mainoo and Cas challenge one player together in their half, next thing the ball is with their player running at our defence with no central midfield.

It is a disorganised mess from the manager. It looks to me like he makes scapegoats to excuse his own mistakes. Garnacho the latest, however, he does not do it to the sacred cow Rashford. He does not do it to Bruno when he runs aimlessly out of position or structure.

Yes, there is a problem with the manager. The spotlight is on him, he isn’t used to it, the job is too big and he is like a rabbit in the headlights, says what he thinks even if it belittles players in public. Just the wrong players, he never does it to Rashford does he, nor Bruno.

He stormed out when asked a question he didn’t like, that’s pathetic, like the rabbit the headlight is too bright.

It’s at a point where the players will probably turn up for the cup because they want to win it, but won’t the rest of the time. It’s toxic, get ETH out today or tomorrow.

Nobody better? Get an interim to end of season, hell Jose or Conte, they would give us a chance of winning the cup. Then reevaluate.

14 Apr 2024 10:23:08
Because he will be eating out of a lunchbox on his own.

14 Apr 2024 10:29:36
Casemiro and Rashford should never play again after yesterday. They genuinely do not care.

The team for the rest of the season should be something like:

Onana
Dalot
Kambwala
Maguire (Evans if fit)
Amass
Mainoo
Mount
Fernandes
Amad
Garnacho
Hojlund.