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Liverpool vs Manchester City: Review

12 Mar 2024 07:39:06
{Ed's Note - Seano_ has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool vs Manchester City: Review

12 Mar 2024 11:18:10
As a United fan I do get a good laugh when poor decisions go against Liverpool, but to be honest I'm utterly shocked that Doku didn't get sent off for his chest high, studs up challenge.

It is a high foot, and it was dangerous. Absolutely no excuse for Michael Oliver not to make that call and even worse that VAR stood by and did nothing.

That one decision could effect where the league title ends up this season. The whole point of VAR was to remove clear and obvious errors.

I don't necessarily want VAR removed from the game, I think it could be used very effectively, if used in the right way for football.

The problem seems to be that it's run exclusively by referees who don't want to publicly state a colleague has made a mistake by over ruling an on pitch decision.

Even when they do question the decision they get the ob pitch referee to review it on a pitch side monitor and decide whether to change their decision. Which seems like massive overkill given it's a qualified referee working the VAR, someone who knows the rules of the game and takes charge of matches themselves.

They know if the decision was wrong or not, why waste time showing the on pitch Ref where he went wrong. Change the decision and keep the game going.

As a added bonus it'd make games harder to fix as you'd have two officials (when an error has occurred) making decisions rather than one.

12 Mar 2024 12:20:34
Shappy

Agreed, I thought it was a stonewall penalty for Liverpool. Don’t understand how it was dismissed and quickly.

12 Mar 2024 12:53:54
Agreed Shappy, on both points.

12 Mar 2024 13:32:39
The ref on the pitch must make the final decision.
If you take the authority away from the man in the middle then there is no point in having them, the more they are undermined the less respect they will get imo.

12 Mar 2024 14:20:52
VAR has become a joke, it was a clear and obvious error but referees are loathe to highlight their colleagues' errors.

12 Mar 2024 14:28:12
My bugbear is players still surrounding the ref after literally every big decision. It's literally the only sport where every decision is questioned. Thought they were doing something about it.

12 Mar 2024 14:35:32
It's like they are afraid to admit they are unsure. With the sites of the game now it's very reasonable for refs to be unsure and take advice from var.
Again the laws are subjective in too many cases so that will lead to inconsistent judgements.
Should be like rugby where the ref reviews with the var official and we should be able to hear their rationale.

12 Mar 2024 14:56:13
I was sat with my Liverpool supporting brother in law during the game. He had a meltdown after that decision, I wasn't so bothered. Hoping for Arsenal to win it this year.

12 Mar 2024 15:00:22
It perfectly sums how farcical VAR actually is. It is being implemented by clowns.

12 Mar 2024 15:50:17
The scousers weren’t too bothered when they never returned the ball to Forest last week and scored.

12 Mar 2024 16:35:03
Ken, I don't think it does take away from the on pitch Ref's authority. It's already a team of officials running a game, the Ref, the linesmen, the , and since the introduction of VAR they are a part of the decision making team.

The whole point of VAR is to correct mistakes made by Ref's through the use of video replay and multiply camera angles. Being able to see the things that the Ref cannot see.

I see no reason why a fully qualified referee who has the advantage of seeing the incident from multiple angles, several times and potentially slowed down cannot make the call.

Slowing down the game more than it needs to just takes away from the spectacle of the game and makes matches less enjoyable.

The game has got too big for clear an obvious errors to be allowed to persist. Wrong decisions effect both ends of the table and can potentially cost teams hundreds of millions as well as potential glory.

We can't allow a situation where billions of people around the world know there has been a potentially result altering mistake made but the guy in the middle making the decisions is completely oblivious. That's madness.

However, football is a very different sport to Rugby, Cricket or Tennis where this technology has been used successfully before. Those are slower paced, more stop start games. They also have much clearer rules less open to interpretation.

As such the use of VAR in football needs to be used differently.

Where possible any and all ambiguity should be removed from the rules. That's just good for the sport in general. You can't have similar incidents being adjudicated differently on the same weekend. Imagine if on the final day of the season the title as well as who gets relegated are still undecided. Then two similar incidents happen at opposite ends of the table, on decision is given and the other isn't. Both handing the title to one team while condemning another to relegation.

The rules need to be clear and not open for interpretation.

I think VAR decisions should be being reviewed live while the game continues where possible. If the VAR official believes the wrong decision has been made they overrule it and play is brought back.

They should be restricted to 30 seconds, if it takes longer then it is neither a clear or obvious error.

There is automated offside technology, this should be used instead of VAR as video analysis of offsides takes too long with VAR (unless it's clear and obvious) .

The officials microphone conversations should be live broadcast, as well as what the VAR official is reviewing both to a TV audience and in the stadium.

There is the suggestions that some officials are not making decision through fear of getting it wrong and absolving their responsibility to VAR. This actually wouldn't be a problem if VAR had the ability to overrule on pitch decisions and a proclivity to actually call out a colleagues mistake.

As for a referees authority, I think this is another completely separate issue which needs stronger leadership within the FA to resolve.

Waving imaginary cards was and to my knowledge is still a bookable offence. But would the FA back Ref's if they did book every player who does it. Likewise surrounding and harassing the Ref, but again there doesn't seem to be the stomach from the FA to back a hard crackdown on it.

Bring in similar rules to Rugby in regard to how players are allowed to speak to or not speak to a Ref and crackdown hard on the rules. If it means a few games being abandoned one weekend due to too many players being sent off then so be it. I'd bet you any amount of money the behaviour would be drastically different the following weekend.

12 Mar 2024 17:27:13
You do know they are not rules but laws of the game.
Rugby supporters and tennis supporters are respectful both during and after a game towards the officials Football fans are not.
You only have to read on here every week or look on sky. More time spent talking about officials and decisions than there is talking about the game itself.
People need to accept decisions and stop moaning every 5 mins. It's never been perfect the laws are open to interpretation therefore there is too few hard and fast decisions that are not up for debate.
Imo if the ref makes a call and is impotence it should not be debated afterwards.
Coaches are worse than the players a lot of the time. Pathetic when the game is over its over don't hide behind a refs decision and deflect.

12 Mar 2024 19:04:17
I think you can argue it’s a penalty as his foot is high but it’s never a red card in a million years, it’s a high foot with zero malice involved, I’ve certainly seen them given but I can see why the video ref didn’t overturn it at such a pivotal point in a huge game. Refs are human and it would take a hell of a decision to give that last minute penalty.

12 Mar 2024 19:09:35
The article says Ederson was lucky not to get a red card, when was that? I assume it wasn’t from Nunez diving over his legs after kicking the ball out of play? Can’t remember another incident.

11 Mar 2024 12:27:20
Shots conceded in the last 10 games:

Arsenal : 79
Man City : 82
Liverpool : 106
Man United : 200

I know Martinez and Shaw are out but come on this is ridiculous lol.

11 Mar 2024 13:30:25
Don't compare us to them it's not right to look at the clubs that are doing well and draw any conclusion apparently.

11 Mar 2024 13:45:42
ETH needs to figure out how to properly set up a defence.

11 Mar 2024 14:31:22
EtH needs a fully fit defence to do that. Our best defense is Martinez. It's not coincidence that whisky's he's been out, Utd have been well off the pace.

11 Mar 2024 17:02:50
We are playing a deep defense because they can't play a high line.

But we are also pressing high to try to be proactive.

Imagine we parked the bus at home against Everton. What would people say then?

We need to keep possession better, but our players have been making individual errors. Cassemiro lost the ball alot. Lindelof is filling in at leftback, but is not accomplished there.

In those 2 games we conceded 2 against fulham and 3 against city. The only poor defensive result was the 2 against fulham. City was a decent effort with. Daft goal at the end when we were pushing to get back in it. The others were clean sheets, so can't be that bad.

11 Mar 2024 17:03:06
Jesus that is such a silly stat. We haven't had our first pick back 4 all season.

11 Mar 2024 17:39:16
Teams play through as they press when losing position and the defence is too deep as they have no legs.

We need to play to the style the players are capable of.

Personally I’d go 532 or 442 for the rest of the season. Defence and midfield aren’t right.

11 Mar 2024 18:58:23
It's not just the defence though, we have very little to no cover in midfield ahead of that defence.

For me the most important transfers we need this summer is TWO CB's and TWO midfielders. After that then look at a back up to Højlund and then possibly a RW. But we can't even consider trying to fix/ improve the attack until we have a solid base/ heart of the team.

11 Mar 2024 20:31:34
Shappy

So why when we needed midfield did ETH focus on Mount and Amrabat?

A CF is vital, our goals scored is a serious problem.

11 Mar 2024 20:35:02
Shappy I agree. Our midfield is nowhere near good enough. Teams play and get straight through to our defence so it's no surprise.

11 Mar 2024 21:07:35
Redman,

Amrabat was a loan with fee. Who else would we get for 10m?

Mount has been injured all season, so wasnis your point? We have no idea what he would have done with a fit squad, because we haven't had it.

12 Mar 2024 05:47:53
Dodgy

A few days ago Shappy posted about how we had no midfield players and that Amarabat and Mount were not what we needed. I asked him why then did ETH push to get Mount and Amarabat, last summer, why was the position that Shappy highlighted, not seen by the Manager? He didn’t reply, hence why I asked him again.

On ETH, I think we should have seen far more cohesion as a team than we have, players, even the ones stepping in, knowing what they are doing, playing in a pattern. We haven’t and for me need to see something quickly.

12 Mar 2024 11:38:09
Red Man, we needed a RB and a CB and a ST and a winger last summer as well.

We can't sign endless players for all of our weaknesses in one window.

I'd imagine a combination of factors played into the decisions to sign the players we did last summer.

Maybe the CDM player we wanted wasn't available, or maybe we could have only signed our 4th or 5th choice option for that position and felt it made more sense to sign our first choice option for another position rather than an option way down the list for another position.

We signed Amrabat on loan as we were strapped for cash, he can and has played as a deeper midfielder. Unfortunately he does not seem to be at the level required to play that role in the EPL.

Could we have signed a better player on loan or permanently for a similar or lower fee? I doubt it.

Maybe the decision was made that Casemiro was still going to be able to be a key contributor and they thought Mainoo was ready to step up.

If Casemiro was playing at the same level as last season and Mainoo had been available for the first half of the season then things would look very different.

Unfortunately Casemiro has struggled with injury and form this season, he's clearly declining and not able to keep up with the pace of the EPL. While Mainoo missed a big chunk of the season out injured.

Maybe exposing a weakness in the squad that didn't look as big a weakness last June.

I disagree that we didn't need Mount. I think he'll prove to be a very good signing for us. Unfortunately he has also been struck down by the injury curse that has plagued us this season.

If you look at his competition in the squad we have an aging Eriksen who is also declining and struggling to stay fit. Along with Bruno who turns 30 in September and there is a question as to whether he is the right kind of player for an EtH system. He probably doesn't have a long term future, and I wonder if that would have been clearer this season had Mount stayed fit all season.

As mentioned we needed a new CB, but when Maguire refused to leave we couldn't raise funds and replace him so we couldn't sign a player more suited to play the way the manager wants. Similar thing with McTominay in midfield, we couldn't arrange a sale which would have potentially brought in 30m or so. If we add that to the money spent on Amrabat's loan then maybe we could have had 40m or so to buy the CDM needed last summer.

The signings and rebuild of this squad have been and will continue to be severely impacted by our ability to move players on. Both to create space for new signings and to create the financial freedom to do so.

If the club was in the hands of INEOS last summer I'd have expected a very different outcome.

However, we had a bloated squad lacking quality and suitability to play progressive front foot style of football to the required level. An inability to trim that squad, in part due to the wages we pay making finding buyers difficult, but also due to the amateurish way the club was being run. Which was probably exasperated by the fact the club was up for sale and there was massive uncertainty over all decisions.

That led to us being unable to move on enough players to free up funds and space to make the required signings. As well as impeding our ability to sign the players we did have funds for.

That left us with unbalanced squad, making us particularly vulnerable to injuries to key players. Which unfortunately is exactly what happened.

The fact that EtH has had to rely on making more loan signings in 18, months than SAF made in 27 years tells you everything you need to know about the difficulties the manager has faced trying to reshape this squad into a coherent team capable of playing a good style of play consistently.

12 Mar 2024 15:30:41
Redman

Fernandes and rashford can't.

Lindelof at leftback cant.

McGuire can't.

Mctominay cant.

If you play out from the back with a couple of weak links, the pressing team simply targets those players.

Successful football with these players is parking the bus and counter attacking. But when he does that, you come on here and slate him for being a small time manager and not utd standard.

You are literally expecting the impossible. He prioritised winning last year and he was slated for style of play.

He actually does play with a style of play now, but with the major concession of the defenders sitting too deep due to lack of pace. We often get the ball to our attackers in promising positions, but they have been awful, both individually and as a group, so we have not scored anything like the goals we should have.

We either accept that we need a full reset of this failed team, or we prolong the agony.

12 Mar 2024 15:35:51
Stop talking sense and reason shappy incase it catches on ….

12 Mar 2024 16:04:30
Dodgy - what style of play?
The football that we played last season was better than this season.

12 Mar 2024 17:14:23
Wonder why that could be Simmo?

What possible reason could there be for a drop off in ball playing. Higher line back four?

Maybe playing Lindelof Evan's and McGuire more than we have played Shaw, Martinez and varanne?

12 Mar 2024 17:42:25
We lost 11 league games so far.
How many did Shaw play in of those 11?
How many did martinez play in?
How many did varane play in?

12 Mar 2024 17:43:47
Let's see what sense is talked by the experts running the football side of the business in the summer.

12 Mar 2024 19:33:14
How many did they play together Ken, presumably you’ll know?

12 Mar 2024 19:45:24
Shappy

You are missing my point. You said that Mount and Amarabat were not what we needed last summer, so why did ETH push for them?

You said “Maybe the CDM player we wanted wasn't available” and we signed our first choice option for another position rather than an option way down the list for another position. ”

What position was Mount first choice and bought for? If ETH bought Mount rather than the position you identified as critical that was surely an error?

13 Mar 2024 09:37:03
Ken., those 11 games, Varane played in 5, Shaw 4 and 2 of them at CB, Martinez 3. The only time all 3 played together was against Tottenham 1st game of the season and since then there has never been a premier league game this season when at least 2 of them played in the same game.

11 Mar 2024 11:18:57
We keep hearing these players three Jose under bus and lvg and ole.
Looking at snr players I think only rashford and Shaw and martial remain from lvg.
Only dalot rash Shaw martial lindelof mctom were here with Jose.
Those 5 plus sancho awb maguire and varane from ole.
So is it just rash Shaw and martial that keep throwing managers under the bus?
Onana malacia martinez ericksen cassimero Antony garnacho mainoo rasmus mount are eth signings or youth.
There are 3 others ole signed in amad pellistri and vdb that are simply not good enough to break into the team.
So if its the players that keep getting the managers fired then eth has 10 new ones and the ones that have done best of that 10 were in our academy the others have still a lot to do to convince most of us. Maybe they will become the new toxic players. Despite their winning pedigree elsewhere.

11 Mar 2024 12:18:58
So by your post you clearly see what a mish mash of a squad we have yes? Completely unbalanced. On top of that ridiculous injury list yet you still feel the need to criticise the manager at every move he makes . I’d say your post is great example that a bit of understanding is needed within the fan base that this job is not easy, with ineos I hope whoever is in charge finds it a bit easier! ETH or the next guy!

11 Mar 2024 12:35:49
I think it's less about players intentionally downing tools and more about a collective poor mentality.

They seem to lack fight, they have a tendency to sulk when things get tough. They retreat into themselves and shirk responsibility for their own performances.

It seems to be a recurring thing no matter who we get rid of and bring in.

Weak mentality and bad attitudes can seep into others far easier than strong mentality and great attitude does.

11 Mar 2024 13:17:39
It’s a rinse and repeat cycle since Moyes was sacked. We hire a manager. They try to implant their own style of play. They bring in some players to help them implement it. There seems to be improvement. The squad hits a tough patch. The players shrink into themselves and seem lacking in fight and effort. The manager’s job is at risk. They start setting the team up in a safety first counterattack style. The fans pile on the manager for the team having no identity. The manager gets sacked.

The truth is that the squad has no leaders. It has no players that are unable to step up during difficult spells and drive the rest of the squad on. The squad has no character. It has young players, players afraid of responsibility and players enjoying a big payday at the end of their career. The closest we have to a leader is Martinez who has been injured for most of his time at the club.

11 Mar 2024 13:34:49
I agree shappy it's about mentality. Varane ericksen cssimero onana martinez all serial winners malacia rashford with England mctom with Scotland Shaw with England all these guys looked OK before they came and look good elsewhere. So why do bad at united.?

11 Mar 2024 14:19:28
The culture is set higher up.

The stadium, the training facilities, all sub-par. These young players, like our fans, like shiny new things. Look at the clubs that are doing well, all with new or refurbished state-of-the art facilities.

Imagine walking out at Spurs stadium, or the Emirates, or training at City's facilities.

And then look at ours. Maybe this is a good place to start when wondering why for the past 10 years, we sign players who quickly regress. This is nothing new, and nothing to do with ETH.

11 Mar 2024 14:25:05
I don't actually believe in this group there are as many downing tools, I just don't think enough of them are good enough to play how ETH wants to. You could see Saturday from the start that they were trying to play out from the back and through the press but just weren't capable of it.

11 Mar 2024 15:25:47
He has 10 new players.

11 Mar 2024 15:28:13
Thats mad ken, all those players still there and we expect ETH to do any better with that mix mash, bunch of players that have consistently been inconsistent.

Square peg in round holes. Bring ETH, who is a clone pep and expect him to do better with those individuals you name, jesus christ ?.

11 Mar 2024 15:48:52
In my humble view apart from one bad egg (Sancho) the players aren't intentionally going out to 'down tools' or get anyone sacked. They're generally a collection of good players, one or two excellent ones most teams would take and a handful of average ones. Controversial I guess.
We've had a handful of excellent managers, most of whom had won things at other clubs.
Sir Jim had it right in his interview - can't remember the exact phrase, but he remarked that if the same issues kept arising, the problems were obviously above the managers and players.
He's on the case already.

11 Mar 2024 15:54:27
It’s also important to remember that not every transfer is the manager’s choice. I always remember when Jose said he was offered Fred or no new midfielder. Casemiro sounds like an example of that for me. Clearly not ETH’s preferred choice, but we needed a holding mid, so it was him or nothing. Likewise, I don’t know whose idea it was to sign Mount.

Antony is a massive failure on ETH’s part. Huge money for a very limited player. Hojland looks a very good prospect. Onana is starting to look good and has improved throughout the season. Martinez is an excellent player, but unlucky with injuries. Malacia, again, a good back up left back but injury. I think there’s probably questions to be asked of the medical and conditioning staff given the amount of injuries. Hard training doesn’t do that, it’s poor conditioning. Eriksen, good option on a free, but looking like his legs have gone.

A mixed bunch of signings, but given recruitment has been a massive problem at the club for years, I’m not sure how much can be laid at the manager’s feet.

11 Mar 2024 17:08:59
Since ferfie left these useless played have been in 6 or 7 finals in 10 years.
2 last year
In last 9 years Liverpool have won 1 more trophy.
We have no challenged in the league in all those years.
In last 6 seasons we have contested 6 finals.
Useless players don't do that.

11 Mar 2024 17:38:05
Ken it was only last week you were saying our trophies would be swapped with Liverpool’s in an instant. Now you’re comparing the two to suit your narrative. Give up ?.

11 Mar 2024 22:07:59
Ken. Is Maguire/ Evans as good on the ball and at receiving the ball as Martinez in tight situations and dealing with the press? No. Is Martinez essential in the way ETH wants to play? Yes. This is where these players aren’t good enough. They are not useless but they’re not good enough in this system. Defensively if we try press from the front our midfield squeeze and so should the defence but they lack pace so stay deeper so therefore huge gaps are between defence and midfield. ETH didn’t think Maguire was good enough to play how he wants but a sale didn’t happen, he didn’t identify Evans as a signing he wanted to play his system, he signed as cover on a free because we needed bodies. Do you honestly believe Maguire and Evans would play 20+ games in a fully fit City or Liverpool team?

11 Mar 2024 23:52:40
Of course I don't ports maguire or Evans would not get into most teams.

12 Mar 2024 01:43:46
I think fans are just si know seeing the same old BS from the players. Leaks to press. Powerful agents. Poor effort and quality on the pitch. Not liking playing certain positions. I just think a few of the linger serving players have used up all their chances with the fans. New players and a fresh start will bring a fresh new hope. Old players remind us all of failures past.

12 Mar 2024 11:08:53
Come on Tumble. Pretty sure Maguire would get into at least 2/ 3 sides in the Prem? Evans half, purely based on age. I get that Maguire isn't a liked player and no Franz Beckenbauer but putting that aside he's an England starter which again many will say doesn't mean a great deal but they're probably favourites for the Euros.

12 Mar 2024 15:40:14
These ten players he got just for perspective in the last 2-3 weeks when he’s been getting pelters for style or performance or results he’s mainly had 3 signings playing, Keeper whose been good, cas whose been poor who I also don’t believe was an ETH signing and evans who quite clearly was never meant to be here! So perspective is needed and sensible heads are needed! It’s not rocket science imo! Just because idiots on sky and talksport fail to acknowledge the issues he’s having and go for the jugular when you delve into facts it’s little wonder we look disjointed and lack consistency!

12 Mar 2024 16:12:46
The sun was shining out of Casemiro's backside until this week, did I miss a memo? :D.

11 Mar 2024 11:11:36
Any update on the injuries front? Hope we'll have AWB, Maguire and Licha back soon. And Mount so that Bruno can get some rest.

11 Mar 2024 15:16:53
AWB, Maguire and Hojlund - Confirmed to be back in training, should be fit for the Liverpool game.

Licha - Not likely back until April / May

Mount - Confirmed as after the international break.

11 Mar 2024 16:54:18
Postecoglou has a squad made up from signings made by Pochetino, Nuno, Mourinho and Conte. He’s got them playing some lovely stuff.
He might not have had the injuries we’ve had but we can’t keep blaming injury for piss poor performances. The 11 players on the pitch are not performing. They look like strangers the majority of matches. Ultimately, the manager will have to pay the price if performances don’t improve.

11 Mar 2024 17:21:10
This is a reply to the thread above.

11 Mar 2024 23:53:38
Eth is inflexible.

12 Mar 2024 19:37:37
Tom he got a gk left back centre back two midfielders a winger and probably a few more . Played good stuff when all available. Remind me what happened when they lost left back to suspension, midfielder and centre back to injury for a sustained period? That’s right they couldn’t buy a win! Interesting….

10 Mar 2024 17:42:24
Klopp. A brave and energetic manager with a positive relationship with his squad. Hasn’t been afraid to rely on youth when injuries dictated.

ETH. Cowardly energy sapping manager that constantly frowns. Seems hard to bond with. Would prefer to play a wholly inadequate Lindelof at left back rather than Dalot (and play Ogunneye at right back).

I don’t buy this “the players are to blame”. It’s entirely possible that many of these players are to blame and that ETH is an equally inadequate manager.

10 Mar 2024 18:05:52
Klopp, an established manager at a well run club, who has the full backing of the club hierarchy, has fully shaped the squad, ensured that system of football played at youth level is cohesive with first team, and has announced he is leaving the club.

ETH, a manager in his second season at a disaster of a club, already suspects that the club will be getting rid of him in the summer, inherited a squad put together by multiple managers with very different styles of play, has had limited time to ensure cohesion between youth sides and first team, and is fighting to save his job.

ETH has made mistakes, big ones. He’s difficult to get on with, that’s obvious. He’ll most likely be gone in the summer. But comparing his situation to Klopp’s displays a staggering lack of understanding of modern coaching. Last three managers have raised questions about players’ attitudes. We see it every week. Players pick and choose when they’ll put in effort.

In today’s game every City and Liverpool player was committed to pressing the opposition when not in possession. If United players are refusing to put in the hard yards because the manager is grumpy, that then that tells us everything we need to know about this squad.

10 Mar 2024 18:48:33
Silly comment. Ole had no issues getting on with players and wasn't great. For that matter SAF was hardly big pals with his players. Different coaches have different approaches. Our issue is that outside of a handful of players that have been injured most of the year, our squad is full of players that probably wouldn't get into any other squad in the top half.
I, for one, would like ETH to get another season where he actually has a proper structure around him.

10 Mar 2024 18:49:10
How many more seasons until we learn that half the team that failed with Ole might not be good enough to play title challenging football? If we agree the players might not be good enough, why not try that first?

I suspect that ineos do not want, or are not able to sell off the players from this team that are holding us back. So we will not be much better next season either. It is a long road back, and linger jf we fail to realise where we are.

10 Mar 2024 18:51:45
@danny when did I compare situations? I compared the person. Your post shows a staggering lack of ability to read.

10 Mar 2024 19:33:25
When Klopp took over Liverpool our manager was LvG, he was ripping apart the remains on SAF's team.

Since then, we have hired and fired Mourinho, Ole, and Rangnick.

As well as hiring EtH.

This squad has had players bought for LvG, Jose, Ole and EtH in the same time period that Liverpool having been buying players for Klopp. Building a side to suit Klopp, developing an academy to prepare players to play for Klopp.

Selling players who don't suit Klopp, signing players who do. Years and years of coaching to fine tune the style of play and make it second nature to the players.

The two situations are not remotely similar unless you are comparing Klopp's second season at Liverpool to United's season this year.

10 Mar 2024 19:36:25
What about the squad Klopp took over Danny mate? Because it seems like only our managers have excuses .
He took Liverpool in worst situation than we are and in two weeks they played at Spurs . They were the only team that outrun Tottenham that year . From the first year the patterns an style was there . Pep took a team who was fifth in possession the previous year and made them first . Every top manager has a clear style that is clear for us to see from the start, and that has nothing to do with players.

10 Mar 2024 19:44:38
Very good post BRD.
Liverpool played with a reserve keeper. A right footed cb at left back.
2 academy graduates.
Top scorer not fit to start
6 of starting 11 not with klopp more than 18 months
1 of preferred back 5 available.
Brave looking to win.
Watching that game and the spurs game just shows how badly we are prepared and coached.

10 Mar 2024 20:40:08
Forget talent, forget ability, the commitment, energy, intensity, hunger and desire on display this afternoon at Anfield is something we’ve not seen at Old Trafford for over a decade.

Our players are overpaid, egotistical, blame shifters that refuse to take responsibility or accept any accountability.

At the first sign of trouble the excuses are leaked to the press as the blame shifters hide behind what ever excuse they can muster.

Normally it’s the manager!

These players must be rooted out and sold, if they won’t follow instructions or tactics it’s time they were called out.

Every manager has attempted to appease them, it works for a while but never lasts. These players will get anyone the sack.

Is a new manager really going to improve the likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Rashford, Mctominay, Sancho, Martial et al no chance!

10 Mar 2024 20:42:40
Plus the 3 guys in midfield 2 are there 9 months 1 there 3 months. Look like they've played together for years. Klopp getting the best out of them.
The speed and fitness of the players is light years ahead of our players.

10 Mar 2024 20:43:25
You're right there mainoo. Always excuses for this club. Managers have come in to other clubs and made some progress. Near 2 seasons under ETH and I don't see where he is going and I don't buy the injury excuse as a fully fit squad is still rubbish. Two games today and both were more entertaining than anything I have seen under eth since he got the job. It may not be all his fault but he's scared to fail and in turn the players play like they too are scared.

10 Mar 2024 20:59:02
Manioo, the big difference is club structure.

At Liverpool and City they had professional structures in place with people who know what they are doing. They identified the manager they believed could take the club forward in the direction they had decided. These managers had the full backing of the club, and the players were left in no doubt that they could either get on board or they’d be out the door. Pep and Klopp are top class coaches. But their success is underpinned by well run clubs pulling in the same direction.

The contrast at United is that it is a poorly run club with inexperienced people in charge. The players have seen that if they don’t perform, the manager goes and they stay. Happened with Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole and now with ETH. Up until the League Cup win, ETH seemed to be making progress with the team. He took a hard line and the players that didn’t get on board were left behind. For me this highlights that he had the club’s backing and players felt like they had to perform.

Since then the uncertainty surrounding the potential sale weakened ETH’s position and player performances have gradually gotten worse. There’s a visible lack of effort from some players and a lack of confidence all over. The players realise that ETH’s position is under threat and see another opportunity to throw another manager under the bus.

Personally, I think that the new owners want a fresh start and have their own ideas about the type of person they want as a head coach. ETH is a deadman walking. He has made big mistakes in the transfer market and, like every manager when they fear the sack, he’s becoming more and more risk averse. But I don’t think anyone who has been watching United for the last decade can honestly think that this squad is not a bigger problem than the manager.

10 Mar 2024 21:08:10
It's all ANOTHER managers fault ?.

10 Mar 2024 21:17:35
Klopp has a clear pattern, way of playing, coaches the team to that, the Liverpool fans knew what he would do. Also you can see the bond he has with all his players.

It isn’t about getting on with players, but it is about getting them to play for you. ETH is reported as tough to get on with, but it depends what that means. His utterings about Antony being unplayable, continuing to play Rashford regardless, allowing Bruno to behave the way he does, to give the ball away, yet be first choice no matter what, will not be lost on the other players.

It’s not just Klopp though is it, Pep implemented a style they knew was coming, Postecoglu at Spurs.

We sit here saying give them 5 years, every one of them yet none of us know if that will be successful, we just think because SAF was, it will work for ETH.

I think ETH needs to show some coaching skills, coordinated team play, stop talking nonsense about Antony, wake up about Bruno and Rashford, play some decent football, sell his plan to those in charge fast because, that yesterday was very poor, he looks on borrowed time.

10 Mar 2024 21:19:51
Comparing Liverpool and klopp to us and ETH is laughable!

10 Mar 2024 21:22:23
Tumble, liverpool brought in 3 or 4 top players to rebuild the 3 midfield positions. They moved on the older and less skilled players to build a team fit to challenge for the title. A year ago they moved on the aging players that had been good, but would not take them forward any further.

Mane, bobby, hendo and co all left and new fresh players were brought in for the managers style.

We still have Martial, steeling 250k a week. Mctominay and McGuire were identified as players to move on so that EtH could build such a squad. But we failed to move them on.

We have also made rashford a brand, we have sancho and Greenwood who for different reasons are playable and can't be sold.

When barrada and dir football are in place I suspect that we will slowly see these mistakes dealt with. But no doubt it has been a big mess caused by the club and not EtH. Yes, eth want anthony and he has not yet been able to make the step up, but plenty of managers including Pep, klopp and arteta have made expensive mistakes signing players.

We are a patched up patchwork midtable team and 6th is about right for where we sit. If we had a full strength team all year I suspect we would be 4th. Still amazes me how little media attention is paid to Chelsea and Newcastle, almost like the media has an agenda against utd ?.

10 Mar 2024 21:36:45
Very few weeks we are not fielding 8, 9 or 10 internationals.
In todays game given 6 months with either coach
Switch elliot for garnacho
Rashford for Alves
Casimero for endo or
Mainoo for endo
Varane for x (sorry I forget young Liverpool cb name)
Dalot for (Bradley who was great) .
Rasmus for nunez
Shaw for aki.
Given 6 months with either pep or klopp those players would fit in and in most cases not improve but would fit in seamlessly into those teams imo.
Before anyone gets excited I'm not saying we have better players but that any of those players switched they would look much better under those coaches.
We see it at international level on occasions.
It's not all eth's fault but we have good players he is not improving and not getting the best out of.
No matter who is injured or fit its pretty dull and miles off the energy levels and pace of play that entertains.
We do not look remotely like a team that has any sort of identity, and if there is one I certainly don't recognise or identify with it.

10 Mar 2024 22:20:02
Not a good post at all Ken, BRD ?‍♂️

Repetitive, uneducated, ironic nonsense is what I would call it.

Klopp is a great manager at a huge club who have (for the most part) largely backed him.

We’ve been here before, several times in the past 10 years. Our fans come across as incredibly spoilt with a sense of entitlement. The most moronic of the bunch seem to think that our manager should be some sort of miracle worker who can get a 36 year old Johnny Evans, along with a squad of players who the same people slate every single day, challenging for the title. The same people (alt accounts n’all) are unable to see their own irony, going on and on and on about it every single day.

ETH did unbelievably well in his first season. Taking us from 6th, to a league cup win, an FA cup final, a European semi final, and champions league football. Not one person on here predicted that would happen after ETH took over from Rangnick.

And now, yet another manager is struggling in his 2nd season, one that has been riddled with off field controversy and long-term injuries to key players, and once again we have the same people going on (and on and on and on) about it.

11 Mar 2024 00:08:00
Totally agree Wazza, It does seem that that there are those who only seem to have a sense of purpose from endlessly repeating the same old thing regardless of it's truth or otherwise.

ETH may well have a direct way of dealing with the players (fully deserved for most of them) but let's not forget when he was hired he was told restoring discipline and standards was a priority.

He also asked the question, what happens when a bad spell of form follows improvement, is that going to result in the sack? He seemingly was assured of support. Let's not forget the major issues he has had to deal with since arrival have been inherited from previous regimes.

The injury factors are also very relevant as in particular we have suffered more in defence than anywhere else. Yesterday was the sixth time Varane and Evans started together and that is the highest number of starts for any partnership this season. Add to that the issue with full backs, how many time has Shaw played? and this tells a major story as to to why inconsistency has been such an issue.

11 Mar 2024 00:49:03
The guy in CM for Liverpool was recommended to us 2 years ago by Rangnick, as per Ed002. Szob looks a player but we decided Ralf had no idea what he was doing and ignored him.

11 Mar 2024 01:13:01
Expect it all to be fixed within 18 mi this, it really is incredible. This is a total rebuild. Any steps we take to try and patch up a leaky ship will only delay how long until we are successful. Liverpool only got back after truely realizing that they needed to fully commit to rebuild. Last piece was coutinho. He was a good player, but not what klopp needed.

We have 2 major problems.

The defenders can't play high line and squeeze up the pitch. This is creating huge gaps.

Bruno and rashford can't play a possession based attack. They are better suited to a deep lying teM that play in the break. the ga. e of bottom half clubs.

Until we fix this we will not play a style of play that can compete, unless we park the bud and hit on the break. And ole got slaughtered for doing that.

We are what we are. Tine to turn the page.

11 Mar 2024 05:07:17
This thread just takes the cake and shows a lack of understanding to the amount of work that Liverpool (and Klopp) put in to make the team into what it is today. It was not an overnight process and required support and vision from the people above. We have revamped Anfield, built a new state of the art training facility where the youth team and the first team trains at, and have supported the manager through whatever process he saw fit. Everyone involved was working towards a common goal and had a shared vision.

The people at your club feels like they are either protecting or furthering their own interest rather than that of the club. It just feels like multiple people pulling in different directions instead of everyone working towards a common vision of where the club should be at. It boggles my mind that Martial, a player bought by LVG, is still somehow at the club despite all managers after deeming him surplus to requirements. Last summer, we saw the same thing happening to Maguire and Mctominay as well. Players that the manager wants rid of but is unable. Compare this to Klopp who had the support of the entire club to tear the whole team apart and rebuild it as he saw fit.

I'm not saying that EtH is a good manager nor that he should stay. But the culture around your club now is toxic to say the least and if that is not changed, no manager that comes in would be able to succeed.

11 Mar 2024 07:37:55
I have no intention of becoming involved in a conversation with people who cannot see that this group of players, in the main, are a bunch of overpaid whining kids who are to blame for the sacking of several managers. Add that to the incompetent hierarchy and where to direct blame becomes obvious.

11 Mar 2024 08:33:35
Agree with many of the comments above that basically provides a true picture of the status of the team and structure over the past decade at MU.
Unfortunately one major issue that has limited squad revamp after so many changes in managers and coaching staff is salaries compared to other teams.
MU even have to subsidize salaries if the player goes out on loan!
Unlike Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool it’s much more difficult to move failed players on because of the stupid high salaries and long contracts MU have handed out to players.
How many of us would move to another company for half the salary if you have a long term contract especially if you are at the end of your career?
Obviously this problem has been caused by the structure behind the manager and some poor selection of players transferred in.
Let’s have patience and hope the new structure over the next few seasons will sort this issue even if means buying some contracts to clear the decks.

11 Mar 2024 08:53:27
The only comparison we can use between ourselves and Liverpool/ the top 3 teams is as a barometer for how far we need to go to compete consistently.
The problem we have is top to bottom with everyone being part of the problem, the question will be how many will be allowed to be part of the solution.
Owners - Awful leadership for the entire time. Hopefully we are seeing a change in this whether the Glazers remain or not. This will take time.
Manager - attempting to set a culture and clearing out problem players. Unfortunately seems to be hard to get on with and has not evolved the play as we had expected.
Players - injuries all over the place, players brought in from multiple managers and playing styles, attitude problems virtually across the board. Some signs of promise but needs a massive overhaul and will take time.
Fans - We are not innocent in all of this. We can be impatient, as has been said on here many times we can be toxic. However, what a fan group if we can see progression and a real pathway.
Lets hope we are on the path to enjoyable football, a playing identity and ultimately success.

08 Mar 2024 14:08:31
Hojlund named Premier League Player of the Month for February.
Bit of a surprise but a welcome one, and a great turnaround to probably be at a stage where we're weaker without him considering only a few months ago he had a pretty terrible strike rate for our main striker.
Onwards and upwards!

08 Mar 2024 14:56:21
Delighted for him. Seems like a level headed lad eager to do well.

08 Mar 2024 15:35:56
Remember when Ten Hag was manager of the month.

08 Mar 2024 16:21:48
He done very well after a terrible start, hopefully he kicks on more, I’m not sure we should go into next season with him as our main number 9 though, I think he still got a lot to learn and would like to see him learn from a more experienced number and share the load, hopefully it’s not a sign though at his age missed first month or so with back injury, now missing again, does anyone know what injury is this time?

08 Mar 2024 16:47:35
It would be fantastic to have an excellent back-up in every position like City, but specifically up front as a few have suggested we need someone who can replace Hojlund when required without being a big name. Avoiding the big guns like Osimhen/ Toney as they'll expect to be the main guy. More of an experienced player without busting the bank although there's a strong shout that they should go for a similar younger player like Sesko / Brobbey.

08 Mar 2024 17:17:43
I'm not sure his play was terrible to be fair to him. He was not missing loads of chances.
I can imagine how frustrating it was for him to see Antony rashford and garnacho cutting inside and shooting as often as they do.
Moving garnacho to the right helped them both no end imo.
He has great attributes imo and will be a top striker I think.
We need another starting no9 to rotate/ share the load. Very few cf start more than 35 games a season so lots of games and starts for both in a 60 game season.
He displays a real hunger and wants to score goals and puts himself in positions to maximise that.
Imo him and mainoo are the brightest things in our season closely followed by garnacho and the 3 of them are on a very steep learning curve.
All 3 are still very young and inexperienced and have a great chance to have great careers.
To a large degree the 3 of them have been our best players this season as far as I'm concerned.
Dalot has been more up than down also but the rest have been 5 out of 10 over the course of the season at best.
It's been a tough season on the injury front but we do field at least 9 or 10 current full internationals nearly every week or the retired int varane.

08 Mar 2024 17:20:44
I think it needs to be other way round, Rasmus not be the main man at this moment in time, he got lot of learning to do, he not ready by a long shot to be main main…. See some said he will be a legend, hold the horses someone even compared him to Van Nistleroy, in reality he is a youngster with great potential and to realise that potential he needs good coaching and someone to learn from, his runs are not the best, his hold up play not the best and his finishing not the best, his strength not the best, plus we know he had back problems when we bought him and now another injury which is a worry.

08 Mar 2024 17:34:54
No he was not missing loads of chances because not many chances were being presented/ made for him, must be a nightmare being our number 9 in this team but in the same vein he was not actually making great timed runs either, yes he is very willing and hopefully becomes very able, but atm he is not of the quality to be our leading number 9 there is a lot still to work on, I agree Mainoo and him been our only shining light, Garnacho in patches but I have reservations with him, I think in his own head he is much better than in reality, that’s a concern, but I fear for all 3 of them unless we get some proper coaching done, because it just seems to be down to natural ability at the moment does not appear too much great coaching going on, that’s as much to blame on all the coaches as well as ETH, which is why I would like the lot gone, McLaren seems to not moved with the times was a good coach 20 years ago.

08 Mar 2024 18:07:04
He was making excellent runs. He was often in the best place. But our over elaborate team choose option 3 or 4 rather than option 1. I don't blame them, rashford and Martial have been avoiding making strikers runs for 6 years. Why would anyone expect a striker to be were they should be?! ?.

09 Mar 2024 08:28:18
Strangebloke that was me you're referring to. But I was not and he was not compared to RVN at all. Yet again you choose a snippet from a post and use it to suit your agenda. I posted a quote from Paul Scholes who said he 'sees a little bit of RVN in the lad. ' Quite different really!

09 Mar 2024 15:06:58
The kid has been excellent since he came on against arsenal .
We have had a right touch getting him.

09 Mar 2024 21:21:11
Probably not used to a striker making runs after having Martial for years.

10 Mar 2024 15:55:57
Promising player, has a great potential. I’d like to see him have some real competition though. Someone like Toney, Osmihen or Sesko.

Is see a potential Centre Forward in Garnacho and love to see him get some minutes in that role. A bit like Rooney.

10 Mar 2024 16:53:10
Terrible start? Absolute troll you are, I don’t think he’s actually had 1 terrible game never mind a terrible start. Is proving to be a good signing, hopefully will be a great one.

10 Mar 2024 19:11:44
Tbf it was a poor start in terms of goals in the epl but I was looking beyond that at that time.
I think we need to strikers that can start. Competition is vital.
Obviously the thought was rasmus martial and radhford as 3rd option given the financial restrictions it looked OK however martial should never have been considered a viable option imo. But I'm sure finances dictated that nobody else could come in unless martial left.
Who replaces martial is really important imo. I don't see us going for a really big name but someone who can compliment rasmus and compete with him.

06 Mar 2024 13:55:51
In his last game against Watford, he says:
“The team talk at half time was about whoever wants to play can play, and get your hand up if you don’t want to play. ”
The players subbed off were Rashford and McTominay.
They’re still here today. The players who came on - Martial and Van de Beek.
Pogba was the only player to visit Ole after he got sacked.
Interesting.

06 Mar 2024 15:51:05
Carrick dropped Rashford for the next game too.

06 Mar 2024 16:57:28
He’s a waster
Get rid asap
I’m 99% certain though the mug will still be here next season and we’ll still be on about the same issues with him
He makes my blood boil.

06 Mar 2024 17:02:54
I've just heard ole say in an interview
Bringing ronaldo back didn't work out for me, it didn't work out for ronaldo and it didn't work out for the club, but I'm still convinced it was the right decision to bring him back.
Dear oh dear oh dear. Make of that what you will.

06 Mar 2024 17:10:40
I’m not sure if I’m reading the OP correctly.

Two players put their hand up to indicate they do not want to play?

06 Mar 2024 17:24:12
He used to ask the players who wanted to play every week and if more than 11 said yes he used to hold a raffle ??
Ole and his shadow = Dumb and dumber.

06 Mar 2024 17:26:57
It is an interview with G Nev, was it on overlap? Probably best to watch, listen wazza and make your own interpretation - better than getting the filtered version.

06 Mar 2024 18:40:29
I listened earlier, Ole came across extremely well, no surprise you picked up a negative about him Ken. Listening properly it’s clear he meant that the other option of him going to City meant we had to get him at the time. It’s really worth a listen Wazza, his relationship with Neville and Keane makes it really clear why none of them even really called him out when we were struggling, Keane even went to stay with him in Norway after he got sacked.

Very interesting that Ole pushed for us to sign Haaland for £20m and the club said they hadn’t done enough scouting of him.

If you really try Ken you might even find something good out of it.

06 Mar 2024 19:29:37
He was always a popular player gds2. That was a proper team. They all still respect each other as team mates.
The club screwed up all over the place. But ole ruined what we had (which wasn't great) and ruined a lot more to boot imo as you know.
Listening to him not once did he take any accountability or responsibility for the way things turned out. Its no wonder anybody that played for him turned out like a limp lettuce. He is pathetic. Always the victim, it was the clubs fault for this the players fault for that. What about you ole? The leader?
So gds2 I'll admit my bias as I've always done with him.
I see traits in him as a manager that I just don't like.
Stand up and take responsibility for your actions.

06 Mar 2024 20:41:41
The flip side is that Ole mentioned the players knew and had the feeling it would be his last game because of how the match had gone. Some players crying, some angry etc but for him to mention that he asked the question and that was who he subbed is worth noting. Those two remain and some applaud their efforts, goals etc. We need to move on from these kind of players if we want to close the gap. From an FFP perspective selling Raahford and McTominay would be brilliant but I feel they will stick around. Our squad is full of players who have downed tools under previous managers and got them sacked. I do feel a bit sorry for the manager as he’s not had a chance to work under a proper structure and still did very well last year. Injuries have hurt us badly this season but we don’t have the replacements to play the football he wants. I would be all for giving him a chance under the new ownership. He’s had the squad a while and knows who we need to get rid of and who to keep. He’s not afraid to drop players and discipline them. Reports of players moaning about days off and being working extra hard in training. It’s exactly what they need to be doing though. We can’t close the gap without the basics of hard work and effort. It’s the bare minimum and the players aren’t giving that.

06 Mar 2024 20:55:16
Amz. But seriously don’t the standard of the players he bought or loaned have you worried a little, if he thinks they are good enough which he must do, he wanted them and he thinks we are on the way up and closing in on the top teams, it concerns me what he thinks the level required is, that’s a huge concern
Out of all he bought in, what’s of required standard, Martinez and Rasmus maybe but long way to go for him, the rest have not been very good at all and even if some were not injured which fill you with excitement that could get us challenging again… we now been surpassed by Villa and Spurs and you can’t say there teams filled with anything special, yes we had injuries but so is everyone else, it’s part and parcel of the game, even last year with no injuries football was poor and could not score… I just don’t see anything from him that warrants another game let alone year, but it’s clear he gone at end of season, I would not care or doubt the players would if it’s tomorrow.

06 Mar 2024 21:48:00
I agree that all the signings haven’t worked out but we’re not in a position like city or Liverpool who have long term managers in place with a settled squad. They can add 1 or 2 major signings a year and integrate them successfully. We have to take the risk and are in a position where we always need to buy not just first team players but also squad players. We don’t end up selling who we need to and it’s rinse and repeat. The chances of every signing being successful are slim. Combine that with the amounts being spent and wages being handed out, the environment these new signings come into, the chances increase of signings being a failure. With a proper structure and “football” people in place, would the manager have had as much say? Would the chances of our signings being successful increase?

06 Mar 2024 21:48:11
You see traits in him you don't like Tumble, you annihilate everything about him and have done from way back. Starting to get the same vibe with your view of Eth. No problem, it's just a bit unnecessary to keep labouring the point. I always liked Ole and I don't see how anyone could hate him as much as you do.

06 Mar 2024 23:55:49
I am seeing him in a different light in the interview.
The job is impossible imo.
Moyes, Lvg, Mourinho, Ole and Eth have failed, I'd say they are from different backgrounds and successes and nobody has gotten our team to perform well over 2 successive years.
The rebuild should be now and it should mean within 2-3 years maybe 4-5 of these players should be around.
I don't see us winning anything soon, and the club should be open to ripping things apart even if it means you keep Evans another year or play academy lads than you should need to.
10 senior players departures should be the minimum and nobody should be safe. Replace them 5 players and see how we perform, add 1-2 more in winter market.
And stop focusing on europa league for . That competition just ruins the squad with injuries and we tend to perform woefully then.

07 Mar 2024 05:12:36
That would work in fantasy world but in the real world of business and money and football, you can’t just ignore European football for 2-3 years and get rid of 10 players by just chucking them out the door. Yes we need to rebuild and the last 2 years been wasted because the rebuilding blocks not up to the required standard, but you still have to entertain and win at the time of rebuilding.

07 Mar 2024 09:06:20
All comes back to the culture and personalities in the dressing room.

The club, under Ole, had some of the games best young coaches in there such as McKenna and Carrick, yet still couldn’t get a tune out of them ultimately.

Wrong players, poor recruitment consistently, and no strategy or structure.

Personally, l liked Ole in charge as at least he resonated with most fans, and I think he did a good job overall. His away record was phenomenal, and his record against top 6 sides also hugely impressive. He lost his focus and influence sadly towards the end, and once that happens there’s no way back.

As for ETH, I think he’s a good coach. I really see little point burning through more managers, ceding to player power again and again, giving the same players new opportunities to start afresh yet again.

With the proper recruitment and infrastructure support, I think he can be a success. He just needs to concentrate on the coaching side of things, as his Ajax team played some of the most exciting football I’d seen in years when he was there, and his first season a was extremely promising.

07 Mar 2024 10:12:04
And some players didn't want to be captain for certain games. What a bunch of overpaid spoilt brats we have. 90,% of the players we have need to be shown the door. i'd rather watch next season with reserve players who actually want to play for Manchester United.
These players are making it hard to watch united games.
Rashford should be first out the door.

07 Mar 2024 10:40:13
What Leahy said, word for word ???.

07 Mar 2024 10:52:33
He played ok last season with Luke Shaw behind him. Playing ON THE LEFT!

07 Mar 2024 11:53:22
I agree Patrick. But that's the problem with him. Huge inconsistencies. If conditions are not the exact way he wants them, ie Shaw behind him, playing where and how suits him etc them he appears to down tools become disinterested and sticks 2 fingers up to everybody.
Sometimes you just need to dig in and do what your asked for the team to the best of your ability even when it doesn't suit you.
I think and always have done that he has great ability ( many will bebate that) but he didn't apply himself as he should all the time.
He has huge affection for the club but only on his terms by the look of it. That's not the way it should be Imo.
There appears to be a big rift between him and eth but we can't be 100% sure of that. I tend to agree that rashford will be at united next season.

07 Mar 2024 13:18:02
You'll be happy with that though Ken as that could well mean ETH is out!

07 Mar 2024 15:07:49
The Ole interview was interesting. It highlighted several issues in my opinion 1) A lack of structure on the footballing side meaning decisions were/ are not made efficiently. 2) Leadership (board level) more interested in commercial output than the actual product (the football played on the pitch) . 3) The squad lacks character and resilience.

The more info that comes out about how the club has been run post Fergie/ Gill the worse it gets.

Hopefully INEOS are in the process of sorting points 1 and 2, until these are sorted out any manager is on a hiding to nothing. Point 3 the squad lacking character appears to be being sorted by ETH, he's been very strict with player like Ronaldo, Sancho and even Rashford to an extent.

I really think we need to stick with ETH and get the bad players out. For me Bruno and Rashford need moving on ASAP. Bruno is a busy fool in transition and Rashford looks like he does not want to be here. Casemiro, Maguire, Varane, Erikson, Antony, Sancho and Wan Bissaka all need to be moved on and replaced.

A clear-out of big names really puts a shot across the bow and shows players they aren't bigger than the club. It also allows the manager to build a much better culture within the dressing room.

07 Mar 2024 16:11:11
I'd be happier if both went to be honest ports but I don't see that happening.
It might but no point worrying about things we can't control or have no entitlement to control.
They could both stay, they might be best buddies next year, who knows.

07 Mar 2024 17:28:00
Rashford turns up when he can be ar*sed. His attitute is disgusting!
I can't bear to watch a match when he plays now. Everything about him infuriates me.
He would be the first out of the door closely followed that clown Sancho, unfortunately i think that they will be both at United next season because it will be ETH that goes before them.
We can look forward to another season watching that pair of idiots strolling around taking the p*ss.

07 Mar 2024 18:54:24
He always been inconsistent but something seriously wrong this season…. I don’t doubt his love for United but I did notice not a word in his little rant about ETH, that maybe the clue, but for himself he needs a new start elsewhere, somewhere he can enjoy his football he certainly not doing that at United.

07 Mar 2024 20:18:00
Rewz, they’re not the names who need to be shown the door. Maybe sancho and Antony. It’s the players like Rashford, Shaw, McTominay and the likes who’ve clearly downed tools under multiple managers. I can’t imagine for a minute Varane and Casemiro would leak to the press and refuse to play.
Quality wise, Maguire and Wan Bissaka won’t cut it but they aren’t the first ones needing the boot.

07 Mar 2024 21:08:49
Tumbleweed, you are clearly a very bitter man. I pity anyone who can spit such hatred about a former manager and club great. Very personal with your insults towards the man.

07 Mar 2024 21:30:02
Shaw when fit has made a massive positive difference to the team. Mctominay is a decent squad player who always tries hard.

07 Mar 2024 22:21:59
I am very bitter about him classimero.

08 Mar 2024 14:46:31
Well tumble I pity ya mate, he tried and it didn't work. Got one over pep and city a few times, got us to a 2nd place finish too. It's funny cos the same people who bash ole also sit there and say the players are throwing managers under the bus. And they certainly did with Ole. Nice guy, club great and certainly came across well in the neville podcast. Just wasn't up to it, but holding hatred is childish in my opinion.

08 Mar 2024 23:46:29
I don't hate him out anyone.
I hate the job he did here.

04 Mar 2024
New image uploaded to the
Manchester United Player Sightings page entitled, Maybe a tiny little tactical/coaching issue?

Click picture for larger image

04 Mar 2024 21:10:42
That’s embarassing.

05 Mar 2024 08:31:52
Not exactly a surprise with the lack of control we have in games and needs to be majorly addressed next year. It is embarassing.
To add some balance however we have conceded the 6th least number of goals so whilst we are conceing a lot of shots those shots are not being converted.
Is Onana having a better season than his errors suggest? Are the last line of defence actually doing better at making the shots not clinical ones, are the shooters actually making poor shots!
All of the above maybe.

05 Mar 2024 11:35:36
Hardly surprising, our defence have been injured for the majority of the season.

How many games have we conceded 16+ shots when we have had a back four of Dalot, Varane, Martinez and Shaw?

This is exasperated by issues in midfield with Casemiro being injured and seeing a drop off in form when he does play. We have no other natural defensively minded midfielders to come in and replace him.
McTominay doesn't have the reading of the game to play as a CDM.
Eriksen has spent most of his career as an offensive midfielder, he's also been injured for periods this season.
Donny just hasn't been good enough, isn't a defensive midfielder and has also been injured.
Mount isn't a CDM and has been injured.
Bruno isn't a CDM, and doesn't have the discipline to play that role.
Hannibal likewise as Bruno, not a CDM and lacks discipline.
Amrabat has not stepped up and proven himself in the EPL. To be fair he's been injured and hasn't been able to get a run of games, yet when he has played he looks well off the pace for the EPL.

That leaves Mainoo who's been our best and most consistent midfielder. He has also been injured for the majority of the season and has only been able to play for the last two months. He's an 18 year old kid with limited senior experience. There is some debate about what his best role in midfield is, is he a No.6 holding player, is he a No.8 box to box player, he can even play as a No.10. personally I think he's probably best suited to being the box to box No.8 at this stage in his career, then I could see him dropping into being a holding No.6 later in his career.

The fact remains the only midfielder we have had who can play as a shielding player for our defence who has been in any sort of form this season is an 18 year old kid with less than 20 games under his belt who has also been injured for the majority of the season.

Meaning we have a defence that is a shambles due to injuries and a lack of consistency. A defence in need of more protection than it would normally expect. Yet due to a lack of options and quality in midfield they have had less protection than they would normally receive.

Is it any wonder that in those circumstances we have been conceding more shots than we would normally expect.

Arsenal have the best defence in the league, they have also had the most consistent team selection in defence, along with one of if not the best defensive midfielders in Declan Rice operating in front of them giving them loads of protection.

If White, Saliba, Gabriel and Zinchenko missed as many games as Dalot, Varane, Martinez and Shaw this season do you think they would still have the best defence in the league?

While if on top of that they had both Rice and Partey out injured for pretty much the entire season as well, would that not massively effect their performances?

People have been quick to write off Onana, but look at what sort of protection his goal has had this season? The number of shots he has faced, and the fact that he actually ranks in the top three keepers in the league for save percentage, clean sheets, and has the best post shot xG rate in the league.

If Raya and Onana swapped places this season United would have conceded more goals and Arsenal less based on the performances of the goalkeepers this season.

No manager could have come up with a way to have improved this. If we played with a deeper defensive line, looked towards a low block and invited that pressure onto us then we would have been asking a weakened defence with no defensive midfielders to deal with more pressure and that would almost certainly have lead to more goals conceded.

We've tried to play a higher line, defend from the front and press high. Limit the pressure on our weakened defence by keeping the ball away from them. The problem is that our forwards line are inconsistent in their ability and motivation to press, making the high press inconsistent and ineffective. They also lack the technical skills to hold onto the ball once they get it. Meaning that even when we successfully press high and win the ball we lose it quickly to a miss control, a poor decision, a bad pass or an off target shot.

This squad while dealing with these injuries are forced to play the game like a basketball match. End to end with no control. This has meant that when our players do well scoring or defending we tend to win games, but if they aren't in form or the other team are better at defending them we lose.

I've said many times to those who feel we play the wrong tactics to come up with an effective alternative yet still no one has been able to think of a solution to get this group of players playing an effective brand of football.

This is the same manager who with his players fit massively improved us last season, won a cup and comfortably got top four.

The only difference this season is that he hasn't been able to play his team at any point this season. Always having to make changes due to injuries, massively affecting the teams ability to play an effective style of play to any level of consistency.

When a first choice player is unavailable and the back up player cannot play the same style or to the same level then you will see a drop off in the teams ability to function. When that happens to 4, 5 or 6 of your players then you have no hope of being able to play effectively.

Take 3 or 4 cogs out of your watch and replace them with differently sized cogs made of different materials and see if you can tell the time accurately.

Teams that can manage injuries and not see a big drop off in performance and results have players who can play the same way as the players they are replacing, even if at a lower level. Teams that win major honours have back up players who can play the same way and to or almost to the same level.

We don't have that, and we won't for 2-3 years. So to expect to see a consistent style of play with little drop off in performance when players are missing is just unrealistic.

The only real question here is why are so many people surprised to see a side without a defence and with no midfield to shield it's patched up defence concede a lot of shots.

Is that surprising? Is it shocking?

05 Mar 2024 13:52:09
Liverpool have played 60% of their games without their 1st choice lb and are playing a cb at lb.
Taa been out for 27% of their games replaced by a kid with less games than mainoo.
Allison been out for 27% of their games
Salah for 28%, jota the same.
Did you not post the other day how all clubs have had injuries this season. But that was for an argument to cover eth for our injuries.
I'm not shocked we are not winning the league. I'm shocked we are 11 points of 4th place and losing ground still.
Eth is a goner and that's good news.
Excuses don't cut it. He talks like ole completely delusional.
It was eth that chose mount over a cdm.
It was eth that chose Antony and still picks him.
No more time for excuses. Lack of goals over 2 years lack of attacking football. No improvement in any of our players.
Garnacho is getting worse and might end up like Antony has after 4 years of eth non coaching.
Rashford making same mistakes with final ball.
Shappy for every positive stat you can give for eth I'll give an equally compelling negative one.
You were like this with ole.
The club has more ambition than anything eth will deliver.
Yes he seems like a good guy and had done some bits well. But not nearly enough.
Everybody has injuries our have been worse than others but that does not excuse the way we play.
Nobody wants to follow the leader.

05 Mar 2024 14:32:22
What are you talking about tumble? Garnacho has been excellent this year. Are you criticizing a kid for have a couple of of games against Fulham and city? He has won his place as a first team regular and doing very well. Eth doing a great job of developing him, after also sorting his attitude last summer.

Mainoo has emerged as a fantastic talent, a player who ten hag was looking to bring into the first team this season- but injury meant that he was not available in the first half of the season.

The club has been totally mismanaged. What other club jn tge top 8 is struggling to afford a loan deal for a back up striker? Or sending a loanee leftback away to save pennies in loan fee and wages. We are broke. That is not eth's fault, that is mismanagement above him. I don't care if EtH sanctioned 150m for anthony, you cannot blame the financial situation on him.

People don't like excuses, but injuries are real. And they are a key reason why we have been poor this year. Until we rip out the remaining huts of this squad and properly rebuild, we will not be successful. Regardless of manager, we have to accept where we are and act accordingly. My worry is that the players who should go will see out another manager. We are already hearing that the likes of rash, bruno, maguire, lindelof, mctominay will not be going. Instead we will sell varane, cassemiro and the players out of our squad. So expect more if the same next season. But probably leaking more goals!

05 Mar 2024 14:51:18
Ken the other day you said you didn’t dislike ETH now that’s changed ?.

05 Mar 2024 15:12:12
I like Garnacho but I don't think he would be starting every game for most other teams in the top half of the league. I don't think ETH expected to be starting him so much either. But we have no one else to take the pressure off.

05 Mar 2024 15:30:22
Really db excellent?
2 assists all season.
Final ball after final ball going nowhere.
His shortish work is good no doubting his effort but he has not been making goals.
I don't think he has improved 1 iota this season.
Won his place in the team?? you keep trekking me at have no players fit so had he won it or is he in because we have no option.
Great prospect but imo will stagnate without better coaching.

05 Mar 2024 15:33:14
Again db who has blamed the financial situation on eth?
Who is blaming him for that.

05 Mar 2024 15:35:54
I don't dislike him but I don't want him to be manager any longer than the end of the season.
I don't think he is doing g a good job and don't think he will ever do much better than he did last season regardless of who is above him or playing for him.

05 Mar 2024 15:40:02
I also like Garnacho but I don’t think he is anywhere near as good as he thinks he is in his own head, which is bit of a concern, but I still think he better on the right than the left but got lots of learning to do, hopefully he gets a proper coaching team to bring him to frutition.

I always have concerns when you see so many photos and outside life from the football pitch of youngsters modelling etc, I know it’s 2024 but maybe concentrate first on your game, Garnacho guilty of it, Mount all the time and he not even playing, took the number 7 shirt for same reason, Onana even guilty of it, actually win something first or get your game in order first then do the rest… appears to be other way round nowadays.

05 Mar 2024 15:30:22
Really db excellent?
2 assists all season.
Final ball after final ball going nowhere.
His shortish work is good no doubting his effort but he has not been making goals.
I don't think he has improved 1 iota this season.
Won his place in the team?? you keep trekking me at have no players fit so had he won it or is he in because we have no option.
Great prospect but imo will stagnate without better coaching.

05 Mar 2024 16:35:34
Always maintain the most worrying game of the season was the first Monday Night Football when we played wolves and conceded 25+ shots on goal.

We had our full team out and ETH went with his first choice midfield of Casemiro, Bruno and Mount and Wolves walked right through us.

Throughout all the injuries which have been a lot granted we have always looked too easy to play against.

Shappys lengthy points don't hold much water imo.

05 Mar 2024 16:51:30
DSG for every ying there is a yang.

05 Mar 2024 18:40:01
Maybe someone needs to write 5,000 words to Peter schemieichel because he is confused too, like some of us are! maybe he needs to be put right in line, how dare he criticise! Cheek of it….

05 Mar 2024 19:14:02
Shappy

You said “We have no other natural defensively minded midfielders to come in and replace him. (Cas) ” McT, Eriksen, Donny, Mount, Bruno, Hannibal and Amrabat, all not CDM or well off the pace.

So last summer tell us how ETH saw what was needed, assessed our priorities at CDM? His answer, Buy Mount, get Amrabat on loan. What do you think of that decision making?

How are we left with no left back at all in March? Why is there no real update on Malacia? Why did we not look for another loan or why not give the youth left back a chance? Better than zero left backs.

For all the essay, it looks to me like ETH didn’t understand what he had, what he needed or the standard of English football. Plus struggles to coach a strategy that makes a team cohesive as a unit. How many times do you start with make it difficult to beat and start from there? 15 losses, that’s embarrassing.

ETH also keeps trying to big up Antony, that looks like desperation, the desperation of a manager who knows he has made a right mess, spent the money poorly in directions that were wrong.

If ETH had set a structure, youth players could drop in, like at Liverpool, knowing what was needed, it’s a befuddled mess now and that is poor leadership and coaching. Care to defend that?

05 Mar 2024 19:28:57
Shappy made every excuse under the sun for ole too.
Told me over lunch it was all Jose's fault that the players were great.
The penny will drop eventually. It usually does.
Anybody that knows anything about leadership can see that eth is leading but nobody wants to follow him.

05 Mar 2024 19:43:24
For me, if you thought last season was good or not, ETH dropped a right Bo***** in the way he handled DeGea situation, if you wanted him or not after 10 years it was clear he would have close friends in the changing room, it was not the way to treat someone, then he moved on to Ronaldo, again if you like him or not or think he should come back or not, you don’t send Ronaldo or Messi on the pitch with a minute to go, that’s disrespectful the way he handled the Sancho situation was schoolboy…again he will have friends in that dressing room, the McGuire and McT situation trying to push them out the door then have to rely on them, it’s really just all round poor management at that level, he seems to stumble from one catastrophe to another, I just think the job was/ is too big for him and his never seems to learn either, he can’t be stupid, so it must be just the stubbornness, but I doubt there is one player in that dressing room who would shed a tear when he is gone certainly not one would run through any walls for him.

05 Mar 2024 20:09:28
Almost 100% convinced that tumbleweed and Strangeways are the same person after this.

05 Mar 2024 20:25:29
There is far more to leadership than kicking everyone up the backside. You have to make people believe in the direction you re going in, implement changes, even simple ones, that make a positive difference early but can be seen to make a positive long term one, communicate well so everyone buys the direction. You do that it gives you the chance to make tough decisions. I don’t see that looking in from the outside with ETH.

05 Mar 2024 21:02:58
Player power. Players don't want to follow. He is making them run too hard in training - yet we get out run in every game we lose.

We have the wrong players. Our players suit a bottom half team that want to sit back, absorb pressure and play on the counter.

Now if you want to change that, it might take more than 5 mins. Especially when some of the problems are bigger than the club. Some players cannot be dropped. Some players won't leave, even when we strip the captaincy and say they need to go.

Arteta was allowed to finish 8th twice and sell all the so called arsenal stars. Their wage bill probably came down. Did it benefit them? Are they a better team? Are they following his leadership?

The club are in a huge mess and the players have learned that they don't have to follow what the managers says. They use their agents, the media and friends who have national reach as pundits to get their way. We will not get better until we realise our leg is gangrenous and we cut off our rotting leg. Window dressing the same old same old will not get us back. That is the painful lesson we need to learn.

05 Mar 2024 21:08:20
You don’t half talk a load of guff Strangeways. He didn’t want McTominay or Maguire, that’s football. You’d probably flog Fernandes on day 1 if you went in with no thought for him. The club refused any offers so he was stuck with them. They’re both back in the squad and don’t cause problems. De Gea wasn’t in his plans but the club offered him a contract extension. They then removed the offer because it was probably clear he was not in ETH’s plans. You reckon we should have just let him have the contract though? Who is he playing for now anyway? He gave Sancho 3 months off to get his head sorted and eased him back into the team. How about a little respect from Sancho? Ronaldo needed to move on to move the team forward. He refused to come on v Tottenham, he did a childish tv interview with Morgan. You need a player like that in your squad.


Bottom line is this, if Ten Hag was at Ajax now, you’d be crying out for him to come in and work under SJR and Ineos’s structure. SJR is looking to recruit 4 positions on the football side? That’s 4 important positions that have not been there since ETH came in or any of the other managers. Might be best you and others stop comparing ETH’s 18 months to Klopps 9 years or Guardiola’s unprecedented backing from the his club.

05 Mar 2024 21:50:17
Ports

Would we be screaming out for ETH if he was at Ajax?

Perhaps that is the issue, City got Pep, Liverpool Klopp, would the manager of a club like Ajax, really be at that level? Given the list of managers that Ed kindly posted recently, do you really believe ETH would be on that list?

05 Mar 2024 21:24:36
Wazza once again your 100% conviction is wrong.

05 Mar 2024 22:10:57
Red Man. As fans I can’t see why we wouldn’t? We were 18 months ago (cue everyone claiming they didn’t want ETH then) from that list the likely candidates from my interpretation would be Potter, De Zerbi and the Lisbon boy. Why wouldn’t the Ajax manager be of their calibre?

05 Mar 2024 22:35:30
Ports

I am not sure we were all convinced at the time that he was the very top level, that doesn’t mean many didn’t want him.

Said before, we need to get away from the all powerful manager who must be given 5 years.

05 Mar 2024 23:23:00
EtH is the manager and the books stops with him.

Plenty of teams have injuries but good managers adapt and motivate.

EtH has done neither since the League Cup win.

06 Mar 2024 04:16:38
I never wanted him from day 1 I never ever see what credentials he had, winning in the Dutch league with Ajax is nothing special, they tanked a good lead in the champs league under ETH, all this rubbish he leads with iron fist may work at Ajax with kids was never ever going to work in epl at club size of United, Carlo, Pep, Klopp, don’t take crap but they don’t earn that respect by putting people on the naughty step like our school teacher does!
Yes ok he never wanted DeGea no problem but do it the right way.
ETH lacks man management skills required at the top level, he will never ever be considered for any top level club, would he be at Barca, Real, city, Liverpool, Bayern…not a chance.

06 Mar 2024 07:11:04
*Almost 100% Ken. There has to be some sort of relation, maybe a love child of yourself and Danny Murphy? ?.

06 Mar 2024 07:32:00
Bayern wanted him, Barcelona wanted him to replace Koeman but yeah ok ? unbelievable United are even considering Ashworth and co when a Strangeways is out there.

06 Mar 2024 10:07:18
Really ports. When did eth turn down the bayern and Barcelona jobs.
There is no public record of them ever offering him a job as 1st team coach.
I don't think that's true at all.

06 Mar 2024 10:41:01
Great banter wazza. That one made me laugh.

06 Mar 2024 10:45:49
Ken, I've seen houses that I like in the past and wanted them, never put in an offer in for 1 reason or another, doesn't mean I didn't want them. As we like to jump on any little thing though, let's say he was on their list of coaches. Bayern had him, apparently as fall back if their approach for Naglesmann didn't work, and Laporta, apparently identified him to replace Koeman. But then again this is all media hear say so you can choose to or not to believe that. However, most of people's criticisms of ETH are from what they read in the media. Sancho, Maguire, McTominay, Ronaldo, De Gea, no one really knows the discussions etc that took place regarding any of them but when you have an agenda you can't see the woods for the trees.

People can absolutely criticise team selections, game management decisions, signings but let's not use internal situations that we aren't privy of to criticise and also choose to ignore the incompetency of the club hierarchy as a stick to beat the manager.

06 Mar 2024 11:10:45
I get a bit of a sinking feeling Tuchel might be a serious contender. Available at the end of the season at a time when Utd are trying to save big money (as opposed to a £10m+ for some of the names being mentioned) and fair play vastly experienced. Just not overly keen on the character and a fair few players at recent clubs haven't taken to him. I know there's a suggestion that that's tough, and players have to get do as the manager asks, but look at the dividends of having that great relationship that Klopp and Pep have with their squads.

06 Mar 2024 13:41:17
The only major criticism I have is that he is not improving our players imo and the football offered up is poor.
You can't believe most of what's written in the media so I go on what I see and what conclusions I come to after seeing and listening to him.
If bayern wanted him he would have taken the job i'm sure. If Barcelona wanted him he would also have taken that job I'm sure. But they didn't want him or the would have offered him a job but they never.
If you wanted a house but never made an offer you didn't want it badly enough.
I'm sure he will pick up a job really easily and I hope he does well.
Just like when most players leave I hope they do well in their next job.
The United job is difficult playing for or managing. There is no shame in not being a huge success it's not for everybody.

06 Mar 2024 14:13:13
Have we had injuries this year? Only I’m not quite sure.

06 Mar 2024 14:57:57
So Ken. 3 players you think he should have improved and why? Bearing in mind you’ve been very vocal about these players having been coached poorly for 2 years and being on a holiday camp under Solskjaer.

06 Mar 2024 16:00:39
Ports I think he should have improved all the players. That's his job as coach.
I think he should have improved us all individually and as a team. That's what the best coaches do.
I only see significant disimprovement both individually and as a team.
We have not attacked effectively for his whole time here. Very few goals scored and very little exciting football and players at most other clubs look happier than our players in their job.

06 Mar 2024 16:27:57
I'm still utterly mystified by the dummies on here who can't quite seem to fathom the clear an obvious link between having all you best defensive players out of the team for 90% of the season and a down turn in the quality of defending during that time.

I mean really? Really?

I suppose they are the reason they put the "may contain nuts" warning on a packet of nuts??‍♂️?‍♂️.

06 Mar 2024 17:16:21
Your childish snipes at EtH just highlight the kind of person you are. It's one thing to think a manager isn't good enough, or not the right man for the job. Yet you feel the need to make it personal and take swipes at his personality despite not knowing the man, the situation he is in or anything other than the outside perspective

I wonder who posted that a few hours before calling others dummies.
Must have been a dummy.
???.

06 Mar 2024 17:18:25
Shappy I’m with you.

I discuss things on here, sometimes wondering if one or two posters lack just a little intelligence to understand we’ve fielded 21 different back 4 combinations so far, have more injuries than any other top 6 club, and substantial off the field issues.

But people still expect us to be challenging and think the manager should be doing more ?.

{Ed025's Note - i think Liverpool may have had more injuries Wassa..

06 Mar 2024 17:38:52
Ed025
Good to see you back. Hope all is well.
No Liverpool have had no injuries its a media conspiracy theory.
?.

{Ed025's Note - yeah im good thanks Tumbleweed, they have got some decent kids there mate to cover injuries, but as we all know...you win nothing with kids.. :)

06 Mar 2024 18:31:12
Think this is the issue Ken, you continue to compare 9 years of Klopp with 18 months of ETH. It’s unrealistic and unfair to judge ETH with this group of players because they are simply not good enough to play his system. Dann’s is 18, he would have started the process of playing Klopps way at 9 years old which is why he can come in and not look out of place. Liverpool have scouted academy players who can come in and play his system. You want ETH to have a system of play and then expect Maguire to play like Martinez. He’s simply not good enough and it’s clear when United try to play out that back when Martinez is out it looks uncomfortable. The majority of this team are conditioned to play counter attacking football not possession based but that’s not his system. So should he abandon his system to suit the players or stick to his system and sell the players who aren’t good enough and get players in who are?! Like the other top managers who you hold in higher regard. Shouldn’t have Guardiola made Phillips, Palmer, Porro, Zinchenko, Jesus better?

We got Pellistri and Diallo in because they were talented but was there a thought process behind how they played?

Managers are dealing with Millionaire’s now, Mourinho said it himself, they are a different beast to 10/ 15 years ago and when they get challenged they sulk, they know they can outlast the manager and that’s what happens. Until that cycle changes, things will continue. Best thing SJR could do is back the manager and set the standard for the players, get on board or get out. If it happens to 1 manager you can question them but 3,4, 5 managers?!

06 Mar 2024 18:38:21
Wazza

I thought with the money spent we should see a challenge but didn’t think we would be challenging and said that from before the start of the season, I didn’t think we bought well and there were large gaps. I had us finishing in fifth this season.

Are our high priced defenders, even second choice ones not able to coordinate or be coached to coordinate with midfielders and defend as a unit? Can none of them be coached to play as a team, to follow instructions? Coaches are supposed to be able to coach players into units, get them playing as a team. ETH has not done that, we haven’t played as a unit, no great football, not one game. However, ETH thought we played well against City.

I am just not seeing it. Whilst I don’t call for the sack, he has to prove very quickly he knows what he is doing, show signs of a coordinated team playing football.

Alonso joined BL in October 22, were they second from bottom? ETH joined us in April 22. How long do you need to implement a style, a pattern? ,

06 Mar 2024 19:06:41
No other clubs had any injuries, no other club gets constantly picked on by the media, no other club had all the problems to deal with like ETH got/ had/ coming…. maybe just maybe the other clubs deal with all those things much much better, but it’s ok let’s follow the conspiracy theories we are so hard done by.

So we agree last year we did not have all those injuries, so why was the football still dire, why could we not score many goals, in fact one of the lowest and in fact if you took the one person you all abuse now out, where would we have finished. But guess your come up with more excuses for that too…

Oh sorry forgot we got such a stronger squad than last season too, the mind boggles, but let’s get personal in the replies even though we are not allowed to get personal with ETH now by all accounts…it’s laughable.

06 Mar 2024 19:44:22
Ports I completely disagree.
And I never mentioned klopp or eth comparison.
They have had loads of injuries and done great.
We have had more injuries and done badly.
I've not compared anything just 2 statements of fact.
It's not about comparisons.
I'm sure the multi billionaires SJR will appreciate the 'best thing he could do' tip from you. But I really do admire your effort at making dann a 9 year klopp veteran. Brilliant??
What sort of player do you think Anthony is after 4 year under eth? Because eth thinks he is unplayable at his best.
Eth has said on numerous occasions the difference between us and then is not that great.
These are ole like statements. He is finished here ports I see no way back for him.
I could well be wrong all we can do is wait and see.

06 Mar 2024 22:21:51
So liverpools academy is running to a different tune to what the first team do then Ken? Fair enough, I always assumed first priority of an academy was to get players prepared for the first team, clearly you have a greater insight.

You literally refer to Liverpool in your first response on this thread is comparing our situations ?.

06 Mar 2024 22:48:20
Ed025 it was a stat shown online on Monday. It showed Liverpool with less but in 2nd place. It was Sky or BBC, but they often get things wrong.

{Ed025's Note - stats dont always reflect the truth Wazza and may include fringe players mate, i think if its about players who effect the first team then Liverpool shade it i suspect..

07 Mar 2024 12:41:20
Ports I have a little insight. I've been to 4 epl academies.
I can assure you that they do not prepare or look at tactics for 1st team below age of 16ish I'd guess.
The under 9 10 11 etc they don't even play 11 a side football don't play like the 1st team or prepare tactically like the 1st team.
Our u18s don't really set up like our 1st team at all either.
The closest I've seen kids being educated to a defined football principle / rigid philosophy is ajax and even there they play with 8, 9's 10 11 and 12s all on one team or training together with the older lads restricted to 2 touches and no tackling etc. If was brilliant to watch. Lots of kids think they are great until they are exposed to kids that really are great. The talent you see at those ages is unreal yet so few of them ever play professionally or at highest level. Leaves you scratching your head all the time and wondering why. Asking yourself how did they not make it.

07 Mar 2024 14:54:05
Ken you take every statement and interpret to what you want for your point. I am fully aware U9’s don’t play 4-3-3 thanks ? but there is a link from academy to first team that makes the transition to first team easy and when you have longevity with a first team manager who influences the academy then pushing players through is easier. Chelsea have one of the best academies around but let’s be honest it’s to support the financial side of football as they sell a lot of youngsters rather then bring through so the purpose is different.

Klopp on creating a healthy environment for youngsters to thrive in.

We were not involved in the timing, to be honest, too much because we had to use them because we don't have other players. I would like to say we waited five years and I saw them first time when they were 13 and I said, 'In February 2024, we will bring them. ' We have a very, very good and a very close relationship with the Academy for the obvious reasons, you all know that – Vitor Matos. Alex [Inglethorpe], Barry [Lewtas], Marc [Bridge-Wilkinson], we have a really close relationship, we actually work in the same building, just on different sides.

The way Liverpool wants to play is clear as well. On a specific day a few years ago, it was probably set up by me but the club needs to agree on that. I cannot stand in the Academy every day on the training pitch and say we do that in training. Everybody bought into that. It's the best news because it's not about how you play, because there might be different styles, different ways, but you have to make sure that these exceptional talents understand that a football game starts with defending. They are all talented, otherwise they would not play for Liverpool. But in the youth department, it's a little bit like that you can really be much better than the opponent – that doesn't happen that often in adult football, to be honest, and you have to be ready for that.

04 Mar 2024
New image uploaded to the
Manchester United Player Sightings page entitled, This made me laugh, although I would swap Bruno for someone who isn't a drama queen

Click picture for larger image

04 Mar 2024 20:11:14
Yeah I'm in agreement with you ajh.

04 Mar 2024 20:55:32
That doesn't look too extreme. The issue is we need another 3 or 4 good squad players. That brings it to around 8 new players needed. Every decision made over the next couple of windows is vital to get right.

04 Mar 2024 21:47:29
Bruno has to go I think. He is always available, plays through injury, works hard. But he simply doesn't look after the ball and keep possession enough. When we kept the ball we created chances in the first half against city. But he goes for the impossible pass when there is an easier progressive pass to our winger that keeps the attack going. Mctominay was turning back and passing backwards, bruno trying to thread the eye of a needle for rashford. Why not just pass to garnacho and then support the play?

Agree with the rest. But the hard nut centre back needs to be quick, be able to pass and press resistant.

05 Mar 2024 10:16:59
A few snippets I've read suggest that any exits will be age/ contract related, not ability.
Suggesting that for all the clamour for the likes of Rashford, McTominay and Fernadnes to be sold, these aren't going anywhere any time soon. More likely to be Varane, Casemiro, AWB, Martial.

05 Mar 2024 11:31:53
Bearing in mind the likely costs of releasing ten Hag (£20m), then the signing on/ release clause if necessary of a new manager, I can't see the massive clear-out everyone is expecting.

05 Mar 2024 12:11:15
I agree spenno.
I personally think casimero, Antony, sancho Greenwood varane pellistri and vdb and possibly awb will be sold.
Evans mctom and lindelof go on the maybe list.
I think rashford Bruno maguire Shaw will more than likely stay.
But who knows we might find it hard to shift some of the above and we may get offers for those that are on the gave of it more likely to stay.
I'm not fussed really. I think most managers would think they can get better out of some players and I would expect that to come to fruition.
No doubt what we have should be doing better than they are.

04 Mar 2024 14:46:37
Yesterday's tactics were pretty much spot on. We're not gong to beat City playing their game. Our only chance was to soak up pressure and then break quickly. We did that superbly for Rashford's first goal. In the first half Rashford had two more opportunities. He mis-controlled when through and then fell over in the penalty area when given a sharp chance from a fairly acute angle.

The first half was a win and it was a win with McTominay and Evans starting, with no recognized left back, an out of form Rashford, a slow Casemiro, two teenagers who are being overplayed, no recognized CF. Given the gulf in quality, and the extremely limited squad available to him, I don't think it's fair to criticize ETH at all.

Sure, be annoyed that our club has become a mid table team, but there's a whole lot of history behind the decline preceding ETH. As Ratcliffe pointed out, if a whole slew of good managers have failed to change the dynamic then maybe the reason for the decline is not the managers. Makes sense to me. Managing MUFC is a poison chalice. Do any of you recall Mourinho, LVG or Rangnick's post managerial assessments of the club itself?

I'm on the fence with ETH. He did have a very decent first season. He has been unlucky this one with not just injuries to key players and disciplinary issues, but also ownership distractions leading to an absence of corporate strategy and support both in the short and long terms. The club is in abeyance. and that's before FFP problems.

Even when SJR's managerial team is in place it will still take a couple of years at least to really see if they are up to the job of bringing United back to the top table, whoever they decide is the right manager for the club at this time. If it's not ETH, so be it. One thing to bear in mind is that City did not become what they are overnight. The end goal may have been to recreate a Barcelona type dynasty under Pep, but there were steps on the way. For a while they had to settle on just being the noisy neighbors.

04 Mar 2024 15:39:29
Good post shawthing.

04 Mar 2024 15:51:45
For the players that we had available and the current state of the club I think the game was as good as we could have hoped for result wise and that is a sad view of where we are compared to the current top 3 clubs.
We made a decent effort of the first half but never really felt like we were in with a chance of getting a result, City had lots of chances and could have had many more. I think Dalot, Onana and Evans can hold there head high.
Rashford is an enigma that I am not sure will ever recover the desire, with his statement this week I think the celebration was as much to stick it to our fans for doubting him as celebrating the goal.
I have wanted to stick by EtH but I think we need route and branch changes over the next couple of years. We are evolving the ownership and senior leadership group and the next stage of that will be the manager once the season ends. After that it will be a cull of the players. We may have an up and down period but for th long term success it is needed.

04 Mar 2024 16:26:56
Don't forget about Onana who, despite his howlers this season, has pulled off some saves so far that a certain Spaniard would be proud of.
He probably feels his defence is like Trigger's broom.

Ultimately, all-in-all, we're currently in the highest position we could really argue being worthy of.

04 Mar 2024 16:50:28
Spot on Shawthing.

I honestly don't know what these pundits expected yesterday.
you go toe to toe with City you get hammered. ETH got his tactics correct. Try and soak up the pressure and hit them on the counter attack with what we had available.
I haven't heard one pundit on TV or on Radio mention anything about our injury crises.
Never mind that we had 2 if not 3 of our first 11 defenders out injured who would of probably played yesterday in Shaw, Martinez and possibly Wan Bissaka.
We had no focal point up front to hold the ball up because our top scorer was out injured in Hoijland.
When Liverpool, Arsenal or Newcastle get 1 injury it's all over the tv and radio.
that performance was as good as i expected yesterday, we were never going to go there out pass and score them.

04 Mar 2024 17:43:57
Shawthing

Good post. A bit tribal atm and drama queens are out in full force today, so its good to read something that is balanced. We have 11 games to go plus cup ties. Personally that's what i care for the most atm. Fingers crossed reports saying Hoiland, Martinez coming back which will be a great boost.

If anyone cares to share any real news on malacia, mount, awb that would be highly appreciated.

Finally if anyone is going to the CUP tie vs Liverpool or in the Area it would be good to meet some of the keyboard warriors on the site. I have my tickets and looking forward to it.

04 Mar 2024 19:15:09
Shawthing, your post was a breath of fresh air, offering a balanced and realistic perspective on ETH's situation. I'm over the constant negative takes from certain individuals. ETH is a competent coach who's being undermined by the club's ongoing issues, a scenario too familiar for his predecessors.

Success is a must in his role, and while it might look like he's not living up to expectations following a promising first year, I believe he's exactly where he should be. Last season was a pleasant surprise for many of us, and it seems we're now seeing our true level. Like Arteta and Klopp, ETH deserves time to prove himself within a properly structured club. If, even then, improvements aren't seen, it'll be fair to discuss his departure. However, looking at the alternatives Ed mentioned, I'm not convinced many are a better fit.

Just taking a look at our bench from yesterday's game gives a clear picture of where the club stands. We're significantly behind, and it's apparent ETH is trying to achieve something substantial with limited resources. The conversation around spending £400m often misses the mark; it's not just about the amount spent but understanding the inflated football economy where even that sum doesn't stretch far enough to bring in multiple world-class players due to the high transfer fees demanded by clubs today.

04 Mar 2024 19:15:36
Good post Shawthing. The reality is that we'd struggle to beat City even with all our best players fit and available. The reality of us doing so with so many key players out was a fanciful dream at best.

It's just not a game that we should read too much into.

04 Mar 2024 19:36:32
Perhaps we should just read into the 28 loses in 100 games and forget the city one, Jose lost 29 in 144 games to put some perspective on it.

04 Mar 2024 21:02:25
we finished 6th in jose first season in a league that was easier and a better squad.

Jose win percentage is 62% eth is 61%. IMO a much tougher league at the top end evident by what we seeing atm and just a very different league. ETH will finish the season as the best united manager since fergie.

We can always get potter who has a 29% win percentage in the pl. 142 matches won 41 and lost 50.

Its a bit toxic with stupid stuff being posted over and over. going to stay away from this place for while. enjoy the rest of the season folks.

04 Mar 2024 21:55:05
Couldn’t just let this one slide could you Strangeways ?

Good post Shaw.

05 Mar 2024 05:24:19
With a better squad…LoL. What 400 mil spent and the squad is worse? Do me a favour, you forgetting Martial and Pogba were in those teams!

05 Mar 2024 09:32:16
Easier league. ???.

05 Mar 2024 11:47:53
The season Jose finished 2nd was a much easier league than this season.

Arsenal and Chelsea were at the start of rebuilding their sides.

Liverpool were in their 3rd season with Klopp and only just started to look like a side that could click and become a good side. They still conceded a lot of shots and would often run out of legs in the last 20 minutes of games, conceding a lot of late goals. This was before VvD and Alisson joined.

Behind us was Spurs, and the only side to really challenge is for a top four place. When Spurs are the 3rd best team in the league (without playing amazing or great football) then that tells you there wasn't much competition. We might have got 2nd place with 81 points, but we still finished 19 points behind City who were the only team playing consistently well that season.

Fast forward to this season and we have a genuine three way fight for the title, something that might have only happened once or twice before in history of the EPL.

Three teams playing at pretty much the same level that only City were able to achieve in 2017/ 18. That makes it a much stronger league.

Add to that Spurs and Villa as they are currently playing would have almost certainly have finished above United if they played in the 2017/ 18 season.

We also have a much stronger Newcastle side, due to their recent ownership change. Although injuries are also causing them big issues this season.

I'd say there are at least 4 maybe 5 sides playing this season that are playing better and more consistent football than the United 2017/ 18 team.

Meaning the league (especially the top of the league) is much stronger this season than it was in 2017/ 18.

05 Mar 2024 13:55:35
All the league fergie won were easy.
Easy peezy.

05 Mar 2024 15:16:38
LOL… some just come up with any old dross to try fight a losing battle, silly argument because all relative to the same time for all, whatever year/ season it was. so going by that Jose titles with Chelsea are worthless because easier then and SAF titles all worthless and everyone else in the history books…. LOL.

05 Mar 2024 16:21:10
Here they are the two class clowns like flies round the proverbial….

 


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