Manchester United banter 5

 

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08 Dec 2018 09:00:37
I would agree there appears to be a split now in our squad, some players are working some are just lazy. Jose keeps giving out, if Pogba was not a 89million purchase he would be b benched every week, Jose needs to do that and show the whole squad he's in charge and if your not going to work hard whatever the system your out, other players might just change their attitude. Still think there a power struggle between Jose and Pogba and until this is sorted we are screwed.

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08 Dec 2018 13:54:03
pogba $89m lol i still don't understand how or why we paid so much money for him, i would have not paid $10m for him, this guy is just media hype, social media hype. Kante on the other hand. i just can't imagine how much Scholes would be worth in today's market. CRAZY.

08 Dec 2018 18:30:15
When he plays well it get over hyped by us fans which is not too often.

08 Dec 2018 08:23:59
It’s all about opinions but let’s try and talk facts.

Paul Pogba is a World Cup winner and had a really good World Cup

Lukaku has a proven track record of goalscoring, both in the Premier League and internationally.

We had the second best defensive record in the EPL last year, the ‘best team ever’ City conceded 1 less goal.

Jose spent the Summer slagging off the CBs and telling the World they are not good enough.

The stats say our team runs less than pretty much every other one in the EPL.

We signed. £50M midfielder in the Summer who can’t get a game.

Alexis Sanchez has been utter pants since we bought him (yes that one is my opinion but I also think it’s a fact) .

Putting facts aside, it seems there is something rotten in the club right now and it’s hard to fathom where the issue lies. Jose appears very frustrated with the players, despite the statement yesterday it seems there is a difference of opinion between him and EW on purchases, and PP is a distraction.

I would sell PP at the first opportunity and I would tell Lukaku that his contribution isn’t good enough; he needs to pick it up or he’s out too. I’d use the cash for a midfield ‘leader’ and a top class striker and I would tell the team to play on the front foot, you score 3, we’ll score 4. I’d stop slagging off the players publicly, I’d lighten up and stop scowling and whinging, I’d realise how lucky I am to be managing one of the biggest clubs in the world and I’d stop, banging on about my past success. Unlikely isn’t it.

{Ed001's Note - what do you mean by Pogba 'had a really good World Cup'? Surely that is opinion too, because whenever I saw France play Kante was carrying Pogba and doing all the work for him and Pogba offered very little. Pogba has to be the most overrated player in the game right now. He gets carried by every team he is in and still people rave about him because he happens to be part of good teams.}

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08 Dec 2018 09:21:49
Tris, I'm not a Pogba fan and I agree he is masssiveky overrated, i'd sell him tomorrow. Ok it's not a fact, but it was generally accepted he had a good World Cup, both on and off the pitch.

{Ed001's Note - did you think he had a good World Cup? Only I just don't see what he did. I saw Kante having to do his job with Pogba strapped to his back each game, but failed to see what was so good about Pogba.

But I am not sure if I am missing something, as so many times Ed004 has said on our editor's widget that Pogba has had a good game today, just as I am thinking how poor he has been. Maybe it is just me, maybe I just expect too much from him and judge him on what he could do, rather than what he actually does do?}

08 Dec 2018 09:26:47
Agreed with most of what you said AJH and definitely with 001. Pogba is the biggest problem at our club right now, not the manager. He can’t even trap a ball under his foot. He’s not fit for the job. Any other profession and he’d be managed out of the company, which is perhaps what Mourinho is doing, or needs to do. I struggle to see why any club would want him on current form.

AJH - let’s not forget that Olivier Giroud is also a World Cup winner, and that too is a fact.

{Ed001's Note - but Olivier Giroud's link up play contributed to the win. He was not there as a goalscorer (luckily or they would have been in trouble!), he was there to hold the ball up and bring others into play. He does do that well, he also makes decent runs which create space for others. All things Pogba doesn't do. How many times has he made a forward run unselfishly to create space for a team mate?}

08 Dec 2018 09:44:47
Aside from opinion on whether Pogba had a good World Cup, there is, for me, also the bigger issue of comparing international football with the Premier League. It's like comparing apples and pears. Lots of very average EPL players look good at international level.

{Ed001's Note - good point.}

08 Dec 2018 10:01:23
I do come up with one occasionally Ed :)
Unless you ask my missus who I am sure would disagree!

{Ed001's Note - oh no, she says she often tells you what to say.}

08 Dec 2018 10:08:46
"Facts aside" is that code for ignore positives.

08 Dec 2018 10:32:02
It's funny because when Jose wins it's down to him and when he loses the players aren't good enough.

I have no idea why the team aren't performing. I think we all agree that this team probably lacks the quality and consistency to win the league but they're certainly good enough to be in the mix for top 4 with the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea.

Our running stats are embarrassing and this is the principal reason why we aren't winning football matches. With the quality in our squad if we at least match the effort of the opposition we'd be much higher up the table. This comes from the manager and if the players aren't prepared to work hard then they shouldn't play. His "mad dog" comments were ill conceived and misleading. He prefers us to drop deep and he picks players without the necessary mobility to play on the front foot. This was yet another attempt to shift the blame to his players when his tactical approach and team selection is the real problem.

I maintain that Mourinho has the players in his squad to play a high intensity, pressing game but he chooses not to. He prefers to play Matic, Fellaini, Lukaku and continues to indulge Pogba despite them being at war.

He needs to select the players that will run, press and work hard and if they perhaps lack the quality, maturity or experience of the others then so be it because what we're seeing week in week out simply isn't good enough.

My team today would be Dea Gea, Dalot, Bailly, Rojo, Shaw, Herrera, Fred, Lingard, Martial, Chong and Rashford.

I'd tell them to run, press, chase, contest every ball. Never let them off the hook, Never let them make an easy pass, run all over them, let them feel the pressure, this is Old Trafford for F. sake.

At the moment they remind me of England pre Southgate. Too scared to take chances, stuck in the past playing slow, predictable, safe, percentage football. Does anyone really believe that if Allardyce was still in change then the likes of Rooney and Cahill wouldn't be in the team. Well that's where we are with Jose. He's placing his trust in the likes of Smalling, Matic, Fellaini, Lukaku, Pogba. when in reality these players are the problem. We need someone to breath new life into our team, bring fresh ideas, be braver, bolder, play faster and harder because percentage football will no longer suffice.

08 Dec 2018 10:32:11
FZZ, walk me through the positives.

08 Dec 2018 10:47:52
Chong won't play as he played last night.

08 Dec 2018 10:57:06
I know it's only hypothetical I'm
just playing fantasy football pal indulge me please 😂.

08 Dec 2018 10:59:41
FWIW - I think Pogba was nothing special in the World Cup, media over-hyped everything he did as usual - if France had lost the final nobody would be talking about Pogba having a great world cup. Most of this 'leader' lark comes from some speech he gave to the players so it portrayed him as a leader - the fact we all know about this speech tells me all I need to know about the purpose of it!

I often meet people that are incompetent in their work, they often tend to try and steer the dialogue when it starts getting dicey for them with distraction or by talking the loudest. It's the same as a player making a mistake and then lambasting his colleagues for not being in position or then flying into a stupid tackle to get the crowd back onside.

I'm bothered about what Pogba does on the pitch and that is turn up 1/ 5 games, even when he turns up it is typically in moments and selfish. Playing raking 60 yard balls to the wide forward who then has to beat 3 men because we have dropped so deep and he admires his pass. Or his favourite - doing a pointless trick in midfield which actually slows down the attack because he should have released the ball earlier and now the attackers are all picked up by their markers. Watch how many times he needless gives the ball away each game, bad enough for an attacker but for a CM with stuck in the mud Matic next to him, jeez!

Pogba suits a continental game and is the cherry on top if a team needs that luxury and can carry the liability. He needs more carrying than anybody in our team and most of them can't carry their own weight at the minute!

Get rid of him along with our toxic manager, they are both as bad as each other - no respect for the club, fans or their colleagues.

08 Dec 2018 11:09:08
Beast great post my thoughts to T.

08 Dec 2018 11:29:32
Agree everything abt yr post but not the Mourinho but.

Good post that DLIB.

08 Dec 2018 11:48:20
I recall many saying kleberson had a great world cup .
Big deal.
Comparing intl football to epl is ridiculous its like 2 different sports.

08 Dec 2018 12:07:38
I remember in 1934 a young German player had a great tournament, and he turned out to be Hitler. Can’t judge players on how they do in the WC because they could end up committing mass genocide.

08 Dec 2018 12:08:00
Pogba was surrounded by top quality players with France, I’ve said all along he had maybe a decent half in the World Cup, can’t wait to see the back of him. I said at the time I didn’t want him and he’s done zilch to change my mind. Harsh words but unfortunately it’s time to cut our losses.

08 Dec 2018 12:39:35
The amount of good games PP has had can be counted on captain hooks non sword arm. He needs selling but were reluctant because we can't get the asking price. We need to bite the bullet and consider a part-ex.

The midfield is woefully unbalanced. We all moan about matic but who else do we have for that role.

Review Of The Day 8th December 2018

08 Dec 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 8th December 2018

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07 Dec 2018 18:32:04
Hi all,
Thanks to the Eds as always.

I thought José proved a point against Arsenal and is now realising what his better options are moving forwards. A front 3 of Rashford, Martial and Lingard was way better than anything else I've seen from us this season. Jose then played Lukaku and Pogba late on who should have been fresh but were completely static. It was also brilliant to see Bailey back and in a back 3 he looks even better.

Hopefully this now kick starts a decent run for us with some more fluid, active performances.

Agree4 Disagree4

07 Dec 2018 19:52:32
I agree, but bringing on Fellaini to play right wing was 5X more disruptive to our attacking play than Pogba.

07 Dec 2018 23:14:05
I’m not on the Fellaini criticism bus, Nathaniel. At least he does what you’d expect and he has had an impact for us over the past two years. Lukaku and Pogba need to stay out of the first 11 for me and perhaps even the squad. Front 3 for the next few games needs to be the 3 I’ve mentioned.

08 Dec 2018 06:05:09
KingGiggsy I don't think we are going to see the 3 in front you want for much long as our great leader thinks unlike sterling lingard and rashford can't improve on their finishing as they are not good enough. Then people wonder why players don't perform well under him, some really motivating lines there, nothing gets the best out of your player as publicily calling him not good enough even after a good performance.

08 Dec 2018 11:50:24
He has played rashford more than any other player forward over last 18 months csm.

08 Dec 2018 12:04:31
Where did I say he isn't playing rash enough ken, what i posted are his own statements made pre fulham game where he was asked after he talked about lack of goals from utd whether sterling is a good example of improvement that can be made in one's finishing for rashford and lingard and his response was its not about the hard work but about having the natural quality, if that isn't manager calling his 2 players who are working hard for him not good enough then i don't know what is.

08 Dec 2018 14:01:11
Do you think longard and rashford have the same natural ability as sterling?
I don't think they do. I would even say the 2 players in question think they do.
Their records suggest they don't.
They are different sort of players rash is inconsistent but that's natural for a young player. Sterling was more inconsistent too when at the same age.
Jessie has not got 50% of sterlings natural god given ability but has other very good attributes.
I don't see what your point is. Not everybody is a snowflake.
Sterling was heavily criticised by pep in the early days and was for sale as per 002 but showed good character kept quiet and improved.
He now delivers weekly. Rash will do the same if he works hard and listens to his coaches.

08 Dec 2018 14:29:10
Hands up how many of us laughed when City bought Sterling.

08 Dec 2018 17:14:14
Ken you are seriously saying that sterling was somehow a genius finisher that poor rashford and lingard can't ever hope to emulate. Sterling wasn't anywhere near as good a finisher and the question wasn't on ability it was a straight forward question whether rashford and lingard can learn from sterling that with hardwork you can improve your finishing, sterling was rubbishty finisher if you and nowhere near as good as he is today, but sadly mou worshippers can't see anything beyond all hail the God Emperor and anything contrary to that is a strict no.

Also please show me where Guardiola had as many digs at sterling or any city player for that matter as Mourinho has had at ours.

07 Dec 2018 14:29:50
There are many things I have found depressing about watching United in the past couple of seasons, but the worst (and this may sound simplistic) is simply the increasing tendency of players to pass the ball to a teammate who is not moving. This no doubt reflects the explicit desire of the manager to retain possession above any other objective.

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07 Dec 2018 18:49:49
Mine is when we have a throw in 10 yards from their goal line and the ball ends up back with our keeper. Happens a lot.

Burnley v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective

07 Dec 2018 09:14:30
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Burnley v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective

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07 Dec 2018 09:00:53
Can anyone exlain to me how Robbie Savage has managed to blag his own TV and radio show? Am I missing something? Seriously, does anyone enjoy his output and manage to continually cringe?

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07 Dec 2018 09:46:32
He invokes a reaction, if you have an opinion on him, good or bad then broadcasters will jump on that to extract more viewers/ listeners. Everyone thinks Adrian Durham is a numpty, yet his talksport show has the second highest ratings behind Alan Brazil. So clearly being a bit of a divvy works in the media.

07 Dec 2018 10:56:45
Don't mind savage, used to like fletch and sav before the footy on a saturday on bt before sky took the 12.45 back.
Sometimes watch the sav show at half 11ish saturdays tune in tomrrow.

07 Dec 2018 13:37:00
I would rather listen to Robbie Savage than Chris Sutton right enough.

07 Dec 2018 14:26:54
Bring back Saint and Greavsie!

07 Dec 2018 19:48:22
@Shappy Durham and Brazil get the most listeners because they broadcast at peak times. Nothing to do with their expertise.

07 Dec 2018 23:52:40
His podcast with Flintoff is decent but that's mainly due to anecdotes rather than punditry. His analysis of the game is exactly why he never made it as a top player, predictable and simple.

08 Dec 2018 03:05:52
Timbo, and why do you think they have been given the peak times? Because they had proven to bring in a higher number of listeners.

08 Dec 2018 10:38:17
@Shappy, tell me one other broadcaster who has been given a consistent chance in either of their places? Do viewing figures suddenly slump when they go on holiday? Or do they merely get sports fans, and football fans in particular, because there is no alternative at that time? They have literally cornered the market. You could put The Beast in there and figures would stay the same!

07 Dec 2018 08:30:13
"There are things that I cannot get from them, and I cannot say much more than this"- Jose Mourinho, Dec 2018.

This is a direct quote from our manager talking about our current results.

Is he admitting that he cannot motivate the players to give their all?

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07 Dec 2018 08:44:14
Or that their ability is at their limit.

07 Dec 2018 08:54:09
That's one interpretation. Most definitely yours.

Could also mean he believes that they haven't got the quality to give more.

Either way, many of the players in the squad have been an embarrassment with their performances.

07 Dec 2018 09:50:50
It can be interpreted in a couple of different ways. Either he can't get the players to give their all, or that he doesn't think the players are good enough. Either way I think it's an interesting thing to say publicly. How would you react if that was said about you? I'm not sure what he thinks he is going to get from saying comments like these.

Personally I think its him insinuating that the players lack heart, fight and desire or at least maybe he can't get that from them. Which is in line with his previous comments.

07 Dec 2018 09:52:35
So, Jose is either saying he can’t get the best from the squad, or throwing his players under the bus again by saying they’re not good enough, again.

Yawn, it’s tiresome seeing the manager focusing on protecting his reputation, rather than trying to learn from his own mistakes and turn things around.

07 Dec 2018 10:22:55
Shappy did he not say just before that he couldn't fault the spirit etc, I don't have the quote. I think he was talking about the quality of some players. I think players like rojo and darmian, who were probably told they could leave in the summer deserve a lot of credit for how the performed on Wednesday. Particularly Darmian who comes across as a top pro.

07 Dec 2018 10:45:02
Caolan your wasting your time mate. Just shappy pushing his agenda again and again and again.
He feels very passionately that jose is useless and feels the need to tell everybody that every day in a different way.
The posts are better than counting sheep if you can't get asleep and more repetitive than uk gold and less accurate than lukaku on a good day😂.

07 Dec 2018 11:19:55
Its a combination. Some have the attitude but not enough talent whereas those with the talent don't have enough attitude.

07 Dec 2018 12:11:00
So players like pogba martial etc haven't got the ability to be higher than 8th .

People thought Jose was a born winner etc etc . Unfourtantlty that's clearly not the case, time to move on.

07 Dec 2018 13:34:54
Jred there is no doubting that we are underperforming. Martial has been excellent recently and has improved his work rate massively. This to me shows that he has got the right attitude (something I often criticised him for) for example when he came off against arsenal he was fighting for the ball, not something anyone would associate with his game. Now imagine Pogba and Lukaku, put in half the work of players like rashford, lingard and Herrera? No doubting their ability, tremendous talents, both Pogba and Lukaku should be the spine of this team for years to come.

For me if pogba had the urgency and determination that herrera has, then he would be unplayble nearlt every week. Imagine if Lukaku worked as hard off the ball as lingard and rashford with his movement, he would and should be scoring loads. I think the pair of them can be so important for us, and could fire us up the table, but they're both capable of so much more, and I think a bit more fight, especially when in poor form would make a massive difference.

Its impacted martial's performances for the better. Maybe our other talented stars need to do the same. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Jose, players included, I don't think there has been enough fight, passion and determination from certain players. Maybe the motivation of playing for United isn't enough for some, I don't know.

I do think that you are right Jred that it may be time for Jose to move on, but I think we are finding out a lot about certain indiviudals in the squad and whether or not they have the character to play at the biggest club in the world.

07 Dec 2018 13:49:05
Caolan
A bit like hazard and co before Jose got sacked at Chelsea.
Jose comments about Fred about sum up were we are .
We can't play Fred because we need to be solid at the back yet every top team defends from the front defends by controlling possession in the middle .
Jose couldn't or wouldn't play a Cm with the 2 silvas in it like pep, wouldn't give his strikers the licence to play like klipperty, he would need an SAS squad playing defence to be that brave .
Martial is a good example everyone wanted rid told me time and again he should get shot . Turns out he is a decent player same people have just moved on to the next target .

Imagine if we had a manager who could get the best out of the players he had . People overcomplicant things make excuses but the truth is, good managers doing a good job get the best out of there players the best out of there squad . When they do they get the plaudits when they don't they get the sack .

07 Dec 2018 14:46:06
100% get your point Jred. However, my post is more a gripe with certain players. In fact something which irks me in modern football if I am honest. Players who decide not to give everything etc. When at the end of the day there is no substitute for working hard.
In our scenario I think we have a split dressing room, some behind the manager, others not. I can't imagine SAF got on with all his players over the years, but they still gave absolutely everything for the club. Surely playing at OT should not require any greater motivation.

Whilst I agree on the style of play, let's look at the players Klopp and pep have brought in. Klopp needed a top centre half and it was made sure he got one, he got his man in keita and the keeper he wanted in Alisson. By no means am I saying Jose hasn't been backed as he has spent a lot and I feel he WAS backed, but Pep got to correct his poor signings. If jose is still here in January we will get a good indicator of whether or not he may be here next season.

I guess what I am saying here is, there are a few issues at this club, not all down to just Jose. I think that is a fair statement.

07 Dec 2018 15:11:40
Caolan
Salah has developed in to one of the best players in the world.
Van dyke in to one of the best defenders in Europe.
Mane, frimino and salah were probably the best front line in Europe.
Sterling is one of the best players in the epl got dogs abuse, stones part of the best defence in Europe got dogs abuse delph looks a good player .
2 managers doing a good job and getting plaudits. Rightly so

There are issues at every club but a major one at United is the manager .

At the moment he is doing a poor job especially compared to pep klopp sarri poch emery . In fact even Howe Silva and a couple of others .

07 Dec 2018 15:33:46
Lollllll.

07 Dec 2018 15:50:45
He's right though shappy. Those players are not doing their utmost for the club and he's right to call them out on it.

Jred, they are more than capable ability wise to be doing better than 8th, but it seems as though they lack certain internal qualities to do that.

Regardless of who the manager is, maximum effort is the minimum a person over 100k+ should be expected to give. For the club and for the fans.

07 Dec 2018 15:58:24
Jred

Van Djik was already one of the best centre halves just needed a bigger platform. Salah was always a highly regarded player, especially from his days at Basle. Klopp has improved liverpool, no doubt about it. But players have not developed under him. Players have not developed under Pep.

Jose is not doing a brilliant job, I am not disputing that. But a bigger issue in my opinion, is players being paid an obsence amount, not giving a damn about the fans and not applying themselves. Yes Jose is not doing great but you can't say these players are giving everything to help improve. Because if pogba, sanchez and lukaku had half the work rate of herrera lingard and rashford we would be just fine.


Sir Alex used to say you could win a game if no more than 3 players were having an off day. Unfortunatley for us we have some overpaid pre madonna's who through the arms in the air when they lose the ball rather than work back for their team.


Players are as much to blame as the manager in a lot of instances. But it's always easier to blame one person rather than a large group. Manchester United is not a quick fix and everything won't be solved by just getting rid of another manger. Players need to go, and the manager does too. But let's not kid ourselves and say the players haven't been rubbish.

07 Dec 2018 16:18:01
But players have not developed under him. Players have not developed under Pep caolan
I couldn't disagree more and you will find most football fans outside this page will feel the same .

Salah was highly regarded at Basel? Come on pal was bailly not highly regarded pogba Sanchez.

It is a managers job to get the best out of his players at the moment he is getting the best out of very few of them .
Unlike a lot of other managers .

Pep and klipperty are doing a great job Jose isn't.
By the way a lot of players are underperforming in an underpinning team .

What did you think of Jose 3rd year at Chelsea? Sometimes it stops working and it's time to move on .

You say players need to go, would you of said that about martial a few month ago .
If you could get a manager that could get the best out of
Pogba martial Sanchez lukaku Fred matic ddg Shaw lindelof bailly to name but a few . Do you think we could play attractive football and be higher than 8th.

07 Dec 2018 19:15:16
Jred you’re taking my posts as if I’m saying Mourinho isn’t the problem here. If you looks back you’ll see me agree that we need a change. But you can’t say the players don’t deserve some criticism, because that would just be ridiculous.

Review Of The Day 7th December 2018

07 Dec 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 7th December 2018

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07 Dec 2018 08:05:41
My wife is from Reading and I’ve been to a few games, both at Elm Park and the Madejski. I was at Wembley for the play off when they got walloped by Swansea. Clement is clearly not up to being the main man, I just hope they can get back to the Steve Coppell days.

07 Dec 2018 00:32:57
An article in one of our daily papers questions why there is a lack of fan fury regarding our current malaise.

I felt like directing them to Jaime on the Live Chat 😁.

Agree5 Disagree0

07 Dec 2018 08:45:10
One word; APATHY.

07 Dec 2018 10:01:30
In fairness, I say Jamie would probably throw the cup at your head if you didn’t make the tea exactly how he likes it.

07 Dec 2018 12:11:26
99
😂😂😂.

 


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