Manchester United banter 8

 

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23 Feb 2024 14:28:33
Is it something related to the training regime, never seen this levels of injuries before.

23 Feb 2024 14:52:41
Recon

we have one striker bud who is busting his guts every game and quite a physical league. it happens when you have a squad that is not deep and can't rest players.

23 Feb 2024 15:23:20
No? Have you seen the other teams in the league, everyone is suffering, Liverpool have a cup final with pretty much a full team missing. Number of games catches up to everyone.

23 Feb 2024 14:23:55
Hojlund injured for 2-3 weeks due to intensive training.

You've got to wonder whether intensive training is the right thing to be doing at this stage of the season.

23 Feb 2024 15:23:42
How do you know it’s due to intensive training?

23 Feb 2024 16:03:52
Ten hag said it.

23 Feb 2024 16:05:25
Eth said so.

23 Feb 2024 18:15:58
No problem with that. Pretty much 1 game per week for the rest of the season. A good time to improve the overall fitness of the squad for the long term. Injuries and niggles will happen while bodies adjust, it’s normal.

23 Feb 2024 19:43:57
He must be gutted. Just getting into a dream run as a striker.
It's not ideal but it gives someone else an opportunity to step up.
I'm not sure eth helps himself with some of his explanations.

24 Feb 2024 00:17:07
I can see the lad putting 100% into everything he does regardless of the training regime. He will train as he plays and that's not the coaches fault and a positive reflection on him. These things happen unfortunately.

24 Feb 2024 14:27:48
Eth said its a physical league and with training injuries happen. it happens guys. why is everyone looking to blame something. its part of football. some players are more durable some not, its their genetics dna whatever you want to call it.

Look at reece james, when healthy top top right back imo but can't seem to stay injury free. looks fit and strong but unfortunately always gets injured.

Liverpool v Luton Town - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

23 Feb 2024 07:39:08
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool v Luton Town - A Quick Liverpool Perspective

23 Feb 2024 06:39:41
I think we will need to buy a left back come summer. Malacia is not of the quality for a starter and given how long he has been out and the lack of a clear explanation from the club who knows what you will get if he comes back. Shaw given his age can't be counted on going into the next season given his hamstring issues.

23 Feb 2024 07:13:04
Tyrick Mitchell from Palace or Rico Henry from Brentford.

23 Feb 2024 07:32:16
Estupian from Brighton is also really good.

23 Feb 2024 08:29:57
Why do you feel your are entitled to a clear explanation to an individuals medical details?
Malacia is a very good back up.

23 Feb 2024 09:12:02
Malacia started his careers off really well. The World Cup came along and he got injured and reportedly played through injuries last season.

There looks to be a good player there, but he needs to work hard.

Ultimately remaining fit so far is his biggest obstacle.

23 Feb 2024 09:34:24
Didn't ETH address it before the Luton game anyway? Said he's had set backs but they've turned a corner and hopeful to be back on the pitch soon.

23 Feb 2024 11:09:10
Tumble

Why not and even an acl tear in june most are back on grass training by now. Clubs release statements generally on long term injuries, with malacia its an ongoing mystery. We are about to go into march that's 9 months now.

23 Feb 2024 11:57:00
None of our business that's why.

23 Feb 2024 13:05:50
Ken, entitlement.

As Ports states above, an update has been given, and the feeling was that Malacia is a couple of weeks away.

23 Feb 2024 13:27:37
Ahmad as someone who has been plagued with knee injuries and surgeries through the years from rugby. Not every return is textbook. 9 months for an ACL is considered common, but I’ve seen people back after 6 months and others take 18.

23 Feb 2024 15:01:35
Wazza

That was a couple of months ago and I watched the presser so was mount supposedly and pictures of both training separately. Both nowhere to be seen.

23 Feb 2024 16:23:02
Didn’t we play Luton 5 days ago?

22 Feb 2024
New image uploaded to the
Manchester United Player Sightings page entitled, One for ken

Click picture for larger image

22 Feb 2024 07:33:26
Been thinking about this new Luke Shaw injury and obviously now we won't see him until next season. Tyrel Malacia's case has been very strange to be honest, not much information anywhere about what is going on with him. Harry Amass is still a kid, probably a year or two away from the first team.

Lindelof is horrible at left back and Amrabat really struggled playing that position.

But there is one player in the squad that we always slate for being useless offensively but very diligent in defence. This player is also known for having a useless right foot and a wand of a left foot. If he really wants to get back in the team, Antony had better start training for that left back as it is the only position that is up for grabs at the moment.

22 Feb 2024 08:12:35
Unruly,

I said to my mates yesterday I’d be tempted to try Antony there, he has the qualities of a decent left back and I don’t think he will make it here as a winger.

22 Feb 2024 08:22:53
Ron Weasly’s wand!

22 Feb 2024 09:07:58
Not for me gds2. I don't think that's an ootion he will be exploring.
Can't see him tucking in and defending the back post too well.
He tracks back well as a rw but imo has shown not 1 quality that would make him a decent lb.

22 Feb 2024 10:33:31
Ken, for all his shortcomings, effort is not something he can ever be accused of lacking. The best fullbacks the world over are of similar build to Antony so I don't think physicality is an issue. Perhaps maybe the ability to be in the right places defensively may be a problem.

22 Feb 2024 10:38:13
No show boating or trick stuff when you play that position. not sure he has the mentality for it but maybe worth a try. Keep it solid and simple.

22 Feb 2024 11:10:08
Ken,

I am struggling to see another player in the squad with the qualities to play left back either though, that's the problem, Antony is crap but if he could adapt his game he could potentially be a left back, he's certainly not a right winger at the top level. I agree though, I don't think it will be something we try, but Lindelof surely isn't the answer.

22 Feb 2024 11:32:42
Agree lindelof is not the answer. I can see amrabat filling in (not the ideal answer either) or dalot.
Gds Anthony is tiny never seen him head a ball ever, so I don't think he has the attributes if you can name 3 or 4 full backs as small as him in the epl I'd be surprised.
Dalot is an option I suppose but that opens the right side I'm not sure how far away awb is.
It's a conundrum but Anthony would be in the last 3 or 4 players I'd be suggesting from the whole squad to play there. But let's see if the experts think differently.
Malacia will be fit available. I'd be happy with him in there.

22 Feb 2024 13:23:53
It was Dalot earlier in the season and still seems the best option beyond Shaw to me, even over Malacia. But this was before AWB got injured. Think Lindelof does less damage there!

22 Feb 2024 14:21:15
Until either awb or malacia are back we face having to play someone out of position.
Amrabat or lindelof would be the obvious options.
As per above we may see something mad with someone else but eth did not strike me as someone to take such a big risk.

22 Feb 2024 14:56:33
Its not going to help this season but Leif Davis at Ipswich is having a storming season. He's got 12 assists already this season also got 14 last season.

22 Feb 2024 15:06:57
Ken,

Rico Henry, Tariq Lamptey, Aaron Cresswell, Sergio Gomez off the top of my head.

Without checking I would also assume he is taller than Malacia who would be our only actual left back if he gets fit and who you are saying should play there. Hopefully AWB is fit soon and he can play there, keep Dalot where he is, he is playing well and getting a good partnership with Garnacho.

22 Feb 2024 15:28:49
But they can all jump and head a ball, Antony ever done either? and to be honest can you even see him being prepared to be a full back, I can’t see it actually, he thinks he is the next best thing and probably below him to be a full back.
Surely the younger teams full backs must be better option than Antony. If we are so poor in that department we have to resort to Antony there those youngsters might as well give up now and join Tesco’s.

22 Feb 2024 15:20:37
That's the biggest issue with moving dalot gds2 I agree he has been doing well with garnacho on the right.
I'll leave it to the people who know a lot better than you or I do decide if Antony is worth a try there. I suspect I'll be aligned with the folk that know best on this one but I'll give him full support if the football people think it's the right move. I'd be very surprised but it would not be the 1st time I was wrong.

22 Feb 2024 19:22:08
Fernandez needs recalling from Benfica. Unless there's something in place that stops us from doing that.

22 Feb 2024 20:04:10
We can't recall Fernandez. On the plus side Harry Amass has been training with the first team.

22 Feb 2024 20:44:29
That's a shame. Does anyone keep an eye of the Portuguese league? How has he been getting on?

22 Feb 2024 20:57:05
I’d be extremely surprised as well Ken I just struggle to see too many better options without playing a 16 year old. I think he may go with Lindelof or Amrabat until Malacia is fit.

22 Feb 2024 21:25:51
Since when is Fernández in Portugal?

22 Feb 2024 21:55:52
Ken, he was recalled from his loan at Granada in January and joined Benfica on loan. Reportedly their is a buy option in the deal, which if true would suggest the club don't feel he has a future with us, at least not in the near future as there are also rumours of a buy-back or sell-on clause.

22 Feb 2024 22:26:09
I can't work out if this started as a joke and has just grown legs! For all the logic there is a difference to defending the attacking midfield part of the pitch against the defensive midfield part. I would happily be proved wrong if they did it but just don't see it.

We should be looking at promoting from the youth team. give them a chance. I look at what the scousers are doing bringing through young players with the injuries they have as well and think we should be brave enough to try this.

A lot could be determined by whether EtH feels like his future is on the line over the last part of the year so play cautious with Lindelof/ Amrabat or if he wants to show faith in youth and have that as the reason the hierachy want to keep him.

23 Feb 2024 04:30:41
If you are going to play a LB like Antony who can’t head the ball and is not the best with physicality, much rather play the academy kid.
Because he too won’t be developed.

23 Feb 2024 07:14:56
Brad, my original post was actually tongue in cheek which I guess had the desired effect. But there is plenty of precedent of wingers switching to full back with reasonable success.

23 Feb 2024 09:41:27
You'd be better sticking McTominay in at LB then Antony IMO. big, strong, quick. Ambrabat though would be obvious and most sensible choice I think having done the job already.

20 Feb 2024 21:07:10
A little off topic but something I've been wondering about for a few months. Then I read where the FA wants to keep Southgate through the next World Cup.

What are people's thoughts on his running the national side. Personally I don't like him. His selections are strange and his tactics are pedestrian.

I would rather England go in a different direction.

20 Feb 2024 21:46:10
He has done better than any other person that has ever had the job except for 2 people. Alf Ramsey and the Russian linesman.
English managers are rubbish. Never one English manager has ever won the epl. Not sure the English understand football very well at all really.

20 Feb 2024 21:48:18
Honestly couldn’t care less about England

A yes man who should of won something with that squad.

20 Feb 2024 22:02:53
For me the thing that sums Southgate up to a tee was a few weeks back, when Newcastle played Luton and something like 13 English players started the game. Southgate was in Holland watching Jordan Henderson. Why?

I’m not in the least bit surprised about it and it sums him up.

Tactically he’s way too defensive for my liking, the English Ole. It’s a crying shame given the players he has available.

With Germany, Spain and Italy currently going through something of a dip in terms of their usual quality, now may be the biggest opportunity for some time. But I fear the chance is being wasted by the out of touch FA, and the yes man they love to employ.

20 Feb 2024 22:28:47
The last English manager to win a league title, Howard Wilkinson with Leeds in 1992.

Who is the best current English manager, O'Neil, Howe, Wilder, Dyche, Rosenior, Robins. Not a lot to pick from.

21 Feb 2024 03:50:12
Gary O'Neil is probably the best from that bunch Grim, he is doing a great job with Wolves. Honestly though I think Carrick might make a good England manager, but I don't think he's ready for it yet.

21 Feb 2024 07:56:06
To be brutally honest, international football has become so boring I rarely bother to watch it now. The halftime adverts often excite me more than the footy.

21 Feb 2024 09:00:28
England after France have to be fav to win the euros with Portugal as with an outside chance. This is the best group England have had in a while but not as good as the English media make them out to be. TBH I only tune in to watch the knock out stages as the group games are boring.

On a different note, I am Hoping they leave Mainoo alone and he gets the rest he needs at his age this summer. Plenty of time for him to play international football later.

21 Feb 2024 09:15:09
Imagine what Pep could do with this England squad then compare that to what Southgate is doing.

Given the players he has available to them, whoever is England manager should be winning the next Euros and the next world cup. Narrow defeats to France in the final maybe excusable given the quality of their squad.

I fear Southgate will win nothing and waste this generation of brilliant players by picking players such as Henderson and Phillips.

Just for interest, who would be in your England team? I'd go for:

Pickford
Walker
Stones
Dunk
Shaw
Rice
Foden
Bellingham
Saka
Kane
Palmer.

21 Feb 2024 09:24:02
Definitely was a safe pair of hands when he took the job over.
Average manager with a very good team. He has achieved more than previous managers with how far we have got in tournaments but it could be argued that this was inspite of him rather than because of him.
Not sure who would step up once he leaves, would not be surprised if the U21 manager took over as I think he is well respected by the England hierachy and again would be a known comodity. Outside the norm, could Mourinho feel like it is time to take over a national team!

21 Feb 2024 10:29:57
Never really been sure about Southgate.
He has got an amazing team to select from and should definitely be winning the EUROS this year. I have a sneaky feeling he may well do it as well.

21 Feb 2024 11:21:04
The friendlies are diabolical so I've stopped watching those. Far too many mediocre players getting testing out when I rather he'd stick to the same selection and let them gel. But I've enjoyed watching Southgate's England in recent tournaments and we really should have won something.

21 Feb 2024 12:52:43
He's done better than most. He gets that it's about the team and not just crowbarring in the big name talents.

He's ignored talented players like Sancho and Greenwood due to concerns over their attitude and how that would effect the camp. Probably rightly so.

He's resisted the urge to pick TAA despite him being technically one of the most gifted players. Probably due to the weaknesses in his game that force you to set up around him which is not a good way to play.

If there is a criticism of him it is that he can be slow to react in game and he maybe could have shown a little more courage/ attacking intent in key moments which have cost England at major tournaments.

I wonder if having a more offensive minded assistant on the bench next to him could be useful. Someone to give him a nudge and make suggestions. Although it'd have to be someone he trusts and will listen to otherwise they would just be a distraction.

21 Feb 2024 13:44:34
I find him a fortunate manager, he's got a talented squad, he gets kind draws in competitions and there's not as many powerhouse international teams as there has been in other eras .
Hes efficient at winning games he really should be winning but becomes too cautious against teams who offer a threat back .
The two defensive midfielders he uses is probably because of England's only obvious weakness which I think is centre defense but I think lots of fans would long for him to get more aggressive in big games and be willing to go toe to toe with more fancied teams as there's the talent available to do that .

21 Feb 2024 15:56:14
Always thought of him as a typical 'clipboard manager'. Nice guy, done OK, but a company man.

21 Feb 2024 16:30:17
I think he is very safe and probably can be regarded as a defence 1st coach.
He has done better than any other England manager for 60 years.
The only people who ever expect England to win are the English. I don't think any other country has any fear of England and unless they are playing Russia or North Korea the rest of the world (in the main) wants them to lose so it's not an easy job.

21 Feb 2024 17:32:49
I believe England are in group c in the euros . The relevance of that is the winners of group c can not play any other group winners until atleast the semi final .
There is no guarantee england will win that group and they could still catch a good team even if they did, if a fancied side finished in an unexpected position in their group .
There does appear to be an achievable pathway to do well though.

21 Feb 2024 22:21:00
Southgate can stay at England as long as he doesn’t come to United at any time. Ole Gunnar Southgate has a flaw that is his attitude being don’t lose first. Fortune favours the brave and to win big tournaments you have to score goals and win games, tip margins in your favour, not try not to lose them. Southgate is the try not to lose first.

22 Feb 2024 20:47:33
Yes I could not think of anything worse, then Southgate coming to United….

23 Feb 2024 05:22:28
He’s done a fantastic job for England. Suited well to international football. I think we do need an upgrade now, and I’d put in Eddie Howe once the Geordies get restless.

23 Feb 2024 12:20:27
I can think of 1 man worse.

20 Feb 2024 16:01:09
Maybe the question we should ask ourselves about whether ETH is the man for the job, is whether, given a structure that attracts and delivers the quality of players that Liverpool and City seem to keep getting, would we be competitive with them?

Of course, we simply do not know the answer. but given the depth of the structural deficits at the club: overpriced legacy players with poor skills and attitudes, a moribund scouting and recruitment department, FFP issues, and the serious possibility of no Champions League football next season, it seems likely that whoever is the manager, will not be on an equal quality footing come next August.

I, for one, think that ETH should be given another season, or at least get to start next season. Quite frankly, given the problems in the squad this year between injuries, low quality, and spoiled brattish player behavior, he's done about as well as we might have expected. and there are signs of improvement. With all the other changes afoot, changing the manager should be on the back burner.

20 Feb 2024 18:15:58
I agree shaw
I look at our squad compared to other so called big clubs and ours by far is a complete mish mash of quality and style! The best example is he’s only been allowed to sign 1/ 2 defenders who suit his style, Martinez and malacia, to build up play from the back which is what he wants he’s relying on Evans ( loan ) Maguire ( ole ) varane ( ole ) lindelof (Jose ) and none of the above fit his style whatsoever! It’s just one example of what he’s up against and years of mismanagement above!

Last year I saw promise but this year he’s back to relying on previous regimes poor players as I’d have been injured and we’ve stuttered!

I’m not an ETH must stay at all costs fan, but I’m sensible enough to think back to last year, to understand issues he’s had this year and to understand the problems he’s had, and this is without taking into account the fact for the first 18 months he’s been working in a circus if you listen to ineos findings!

20 Feb 2024 18:52:37
Oh yeah because he really shown to be competent in transfer market, Malacia is not even good enough anyway, Onana is a joke, even his kicking is suspect. Antony total waste of space (and he knew him years) Mount we have no idea why he wanted him, Amrabat another waste of space (OK Loan but ETH still picked him to loan) along with the others, Probably the best out of loans was Sabitzer and he sent him packing when available for 15mil, then there’s the Turkish keeper he wanted, the one they call invincible

Why give him another year what’s the point, lots of the problems are of his own making anyway that’s before we even get in to how poor his man management is his stubbornness his falling out with all and sundry then let’s say about his demeanour… oh yeah he finished 3rd ole finished 2nd Jose finished 2nd, ETH spent 400 million finished 3rd well done let’s give him 2 years more.

20 Feb 2024 20:08:35
Maze,

Do you like the manager? I’m unsure. Give me a list of 10 things you don’t like about him please.

21 Feb 2024 17:25:54
When we play with Shaw, Martinez, Varane, Dalot and Cassemiro in midfield we look a much better team. We have played most of the season without any of those players.

Playing amrabat at left back, Lindelof at rightback and McGuire and Evan's in the middle is not going to work. Style of play comes with playing your best players together to develop understanding and cohesiveness.

We are in a process of open heart surgery. It takes time to rip everything up and start again. We will get there, but we won't if we have no patience to stay the course.

21 Feb 2024 20:53:09
Ornstein says his sources at united Brailsford and Ineos like eth and want they have seen and plan to get behind him and support him come this summer and potentially also extend his contract. Will disappoint some here but personally glad to hear.

22 Feb 2024 10:06:53
I don't think anybody apart from the strangeways is calling for eth to be fired.
I don't think he will align with the Co owners.
It will be a very interesting few years ahead.

22 Feb 2024 10:51:49
Time will tell and interesting 3 months ahead of us. More pressing issues is winning matches to worry about. Unfortunately we have lost our entire left side defensively again.

Read a few weeks ago that Brandon Williams has been injured and recouping at united, I wonder if he would be a sensible option if he is close to being ready.

Anyone know if there was a option to buy with Ipswich and if we can recall him.

22 Feb 2024 16:16:20
No we can't play Williams this season he is not registered as a united player and can't be until his deal with Ipswich expires.

20 Feb 2024 10:17:27
So here's a question for everyone, we've see the list of 16 players that will depart in the summer ;) people are saying that we need to sell Rashford and Fernandes. Onana is not good enough in goal. What exactly are people expecting ETH to achieve with this lot?

So would you sack ETH but keep this same squad OR keep ETH and back him with players he wants? We can be critical of the manager around certain things and we can be critical of the players around certain things but you cannot demand something from the manager and in the same breath criticise the players for not being good enough and wanting to sell over half the squad.

20 Feb 2024 11:01:30
Ports.
I don't criticise the manager for not competing with these players.
Nobody could imo.
I don't expect results much better than they have produced over the past 2 years. I really don't.
But a very different question is based on what we've seen from eth do we think he is capable of working under new management and a structure he is less comfortable with and building a squad to win the big titles?
As I posted last week I'm conflicted and torn. I'm not sure. So if the new management are not sure either I think they'll get rid and put someone who are that more sure of in charge.
I think eth has done what he can with this bunch of players to a large degree but I'm not convinced yet that he would do any better with different players.
Not fully convinced or convinced enough that I'd back him with another 200m. I see traits in his style that I don't like and others I do.
It's up to sjr and team if they decide he is the man then ill back him as I'm not the one who needs convincing it's them that need that.

20 Feb 2024 11:21:56
Ken, you say a structure he is less comfortable with but would you not suggest the structure that is hopefully being introduced is one that he is comfortable with as it would be closer to the Ajax model that he worked under and was successful as opposed to our current structure, or lack of!

My gut feeling is that SJR and ETH had positive discussions and SJR will want to go forward with ETH next season but under their guidance and support. Next season will be the make or break I think for ETH.

20 Feb 2024 11:43:56
I think ETH’s instinctive strategy to attack for 90 mins rather than control the game will count against him.

Too chaotic.

20 Feb 2024 11:51:18
As we are seeing change at the top there are a number of factors that could impact on whether EtH will remain.
1. Performance for this year, especially this second half with players returning from injuries.
2. Do the new senior structure just want a clean slate regardless of how well EtH does.
3. Once the Senior team set how they want the club to play (we have discussed before about having a style of play that remains consistent and is set by DofF/ Sporting director with managers picked that fit this) . Does EtH fit this style? If it is the Ajax way, will he happily adapt back to this even though he has made comments that this can't work (possibly with the players he currently has) .

I had thought that there would be a clean out of players and manager to reset with the ownerships own man and I still think this is likely. However, there are things suggesting that he has fitted well with new ownership, progression made and the youngsters that he has brought in. So would not be surprised if they give him another year with the stability that he will get.

20 Feb 2024 12:31:17
EtH doesn't deserve to be sacked. He's done about as well as anyone could given the issues and the squad he has had to work with.

Personally I'd like to see him given a chance. Yet the reality is that this squad needs totally rebuilding. We are talking about a minimum of 3 seasons before we have even a outside chance of fighting for the title. I've just posted a reply on the discussion page listing 24 players we could sell/ let go this summer.

Leaving us with 10 players who in my opinion should stay and have the potential to have a medium to long term future at the club (3-5 years) .

Those 10 are: Onana, Bayindir, Dalot, Martinez, Shaw, Malacia, Mainoo, Mount, Garnacho and Højlund.

If those 10 there are still question marks next to Onana and Mount. Malacia and Bayindir are likely only ever going to be squad players. Dalot I'm on the fence about. He could still develop into a solid first team player, or he could end up a good squad player. While Shaw I think is a player who will be key for the next couple of seasons, but I think due to his injuries and his reliance on his physical qualities that once he hits 30 he'll probably have a sharp decline.

The only other players who have an outside chance of being here in 3 years time is Kambwala if he signs a new deal and develops into the player his potential suggests. And Rashford if he can sort his attitude out and find his best form.

This squad needs totally rebuilding, we need at least 5-6 first 11 players to come in and smash it, along with 8-12 squad players who suit the playing style and can at a bare minimum allow the team to play the same way when a first team player is out, but ideally be good enough or potentially good enough to seriously challenge for a starting spot.

That's going to take 3 summers at least to sign/ promote and develop those players.

I think we will finish 4th or 5th place this season.

Yet I expect a massive clear out this summer, and most of the signings to be younger and less experienced.

As a result with a smaller, less experienced squad I would expect us to take a backwards step in terms of where we finish next season. Likely somewhere between 8th and 6th depending on the strength of our competitors.

Then see another 8-10 players leave that summer (2025). With another 5-6 players signing for the club.

With us pushing for a top 4 finish in the 2025/ 26 season.

Probably a few more departures and 3-4 signings in the summer of 2026.

The 2026/ 27 season would be the earliest I'd expect to see us challenge for the title. How close we get will depend on how much our team has developed as well as where our opposition are at the time. Will Pep still be manager at City, who will be managing Liverpool, will Arteta and Arsenal have reached their potential. Or maybe City have punched Arteta from Arsenal and Arsenal fall off. So many variables that we just simply cannot predict that far into the future.

However, based on our own squad turn over, the seeming focus on younger players who need time to develop and grow, and the time required for a new team to come together and understand eachothers game then it'll take a bare minimum of two seasons before our team are even going to built and developed enough to to have a chance of challenging in their third season.

For all of this squad rebuilding to take place effectively and on that time line then the club needs all of the right people in place before the start of next season. The right CEO, the right DoF, the right head of recruitment, the correct analysts and the right manager. All need to be in place and pulling in the same direction towards the same goal by the start of next season. If not then we run the risk of making changes that ultimately won't fit the clubs vision long term and will need replacing before the club can get to where we need to be.

Getting these people in place mean the right players leave at the right time. It means we sign the right players to fit the vision. Players with the right skill sets and profile to be part of our next title winning team.

Sign the wrong players, then that puts us back. Without the right people in place every signing this summer would be a gamble as to whether they are the right sort of player.

The same is true for the manager. Is EtH the right man to be at the helm for the next 5 years or more, 2-3 years rebuilding the squad and developing young players to reach their potential and to play the right style of football, then to be the man to take that team he has developed and built to the next level and actually win the biggest honours with them for the following 2-4 years.

EtH need to know what the job is and be willing to be the man to see that job through. If he wants to challenge for a win major honours over the next couple of seasons then Manchester United probably isn't the right club for him. Does he have the drive to stay here and see that project through, to not jump ship to manage Bayern Munich or PSG if the offer comes up in a couple of years time halfway through the rebuild.

First and foremost he needs to be willing and actually want to take on that job. Work under that new structure. Be fully committed. If he isn't then it's best to part ways this summer.

Secondly if he is willing to take that role, do the new people at the club feel he fits the new vision? Do they feel he has the skills, drive and personality to carry the club forward and fulfil their vision?

Again if not then he isn't the right man for the club and it's best he moves on this summer.

Personally I think he has the right credentials to do the job, and I feel he's shown he has the mentality to lead this club. He's shown strong leadership off the pitch and he's done a good job giving youth a s chance and helping those players develop. Garnacho threatened to go down the wrong path at the start of last season, under EtH's guidance he has grown from a good impact sub to a player capable of being a threat for the whole 90 minutes, he's improved his attitude, embraced a new role and has developed his game, especially his defensive work rate. He still has a long way to go, but he's definitely on the right track under the current manager.

EtH is an intelligent man and tactically astute. He has tried every which way to get the most out of this squad, while still trying to stick with his philosophy as much as possible.

I get that he can be a little aloof and lacks a little warmth. Yet ultimately that is why you have a coaching team. Sometimes you don't want the manager to be the good cop. In fact often it's best if the players have borderline fear of the manager, at the very least a deep respect and a tendency not to challenge his authority. It's the assistant coach or other coaches that should really play the good cop, the go between for the players and the manager. The managers eyes and ears in the training sessions. The guys who go and put an arm around a players shoulder after they've been chewed out for making a mistake or told to up their game.

So I don't see it as that big of a issue with EtH. It could also just be a cultural barrier, the way people from different cultures see things and interpret them differently.

Yet it's not about what I think, or any of you think. It'll come down to the new guys at the club and EtH himself. Between they will decide if he is the right man to take on this new challenge. If he is then I'd expect he'll get a new contract this summer (he will only have a year on his current deal, while there are supposedly clauses in that deal the new management aren't happy with. So a new deal gets to clear those up) . If he isn't the right man then he'll leave this summer, the club will wish him well and I'd expect him to be successful at his next club. He is a very good manager, and if sacked this summer won't be deserving of it.

Yet it's one of those situations where it's not about whether he deserves to be sacked or not. But about whether he suits the new plans of the new co-owners of the club.

This isn't about whether he's good enough, but about the fact that the role/ job/ project has changed and his suitability for this new role/ job/ project.

20 Feb 2024 12:37:00
Ports

I don’t expect us to win the league with the players we have, however languishing in 9th at times and struggling for top four, surrendering in the Champions League to everyone isn’t good enough. Yes injuries have had an effect but I haven’t see ETH make good enough use of the team. We have played little if any good football nor has it been cohesive, there is no pattern coming out after 18 months. His in game management has been mixed and fixation with Antony destabilising. He seems to have pushed for players he is comfortable with and not actually realised the standard of the league is higher than they are.
He is a disciplinarian and I like that, we have needed it, yet does seem to treat Rash different to others.

I am not calling for his sacking but have said he needs to improve. The bigger question is what the minority shareholders think, they are looking to get the best available in position but do they think ETH is that? I am not certain they will and that will be the key.

20 Feb 2024 12:54:32
Ports

The plan is to sack the manager, release all of the current playing squad on free transfers, bring in 16 new players, and win the league.

Its really not that complicated to follow ?.

20 Feb 2024 13:10:31
Ports

Way too much common sense for this site.

I doubt eth would not want a very athletic midfielder next to Mainoo and maybe a number 10 in the like of odegard, who maybe is not as flashy as Bruno but also not wasteful with the ball but you work with what you have.

Someone said he wants to attack for 90 minutes which is to his detriment. This team is not good at sitting deep and defending and eventually someone make a mistake or something and opposition scores. Sometimes the best from of defense is to attack.

Other complaints about Antony is just boring now, every manager gets a player wrong, on that basis Mourinho has to be the worst ever as he had debruine at Chelsea and let him go and not sure who let salah go from chelsea. Klop bought Keita for 54 mill in 2018 and he hardly played. guardiola spend 40 mill on phillips who hardly played and 100 mill on grilish, who now hardly plays. Its just bs stuff our fans moan about. Fergie bought his fair share of very disappointing players but like Guardiola had a super squad and could get away with it.

Not using tools at his disposal makes me laugh. Its unfortunate for us and no one can criticize any longer is the fact that the guys we let go or are on loan are generally a bust and they end up being back and proves most just not good enough. We can't get rid of players so not sure what magic tools he has that he is not using.

Critiquing him for how he treats rashford is ridiculous. The guy screwed up owned it and it was dealt with. sorry to disappoint people who don't like rash. We are a better team with him in the line up than otherwise.

20 Feb 2024 13:20:57
No I don't ports. I think they will give him less input into transfers and that he will walk or mutually part ways. That's my gut instinct into what will happen.
Will a really strong finish to this season alter that? I don't know.
That's what my opinion is.
I don't our new structure will be like the Ajax one at all. Why do you think it would be?

20 Feb 2024 13:38:28
Ahmad let's see what common sense the experts come up with.
No point have a discussion about what might happen with a bunch of people people that have not got a clue and expecting some sort of common solution.
I'm happy to sit back and wait.
My guess is there will be a mutual parting of the ways because eth will not want to make the compromises and changes he needs to make.

20 Feb 2024 13:43:26
Ahmad

Better team with Rash in it? Which year is this? Rash has disrespected the shirt, doesn’t put effort in. If PSG want to give us plenty of money I would take it. He shows the right attitude or shouldn’t play. I like home grown players so his attitude really disappoints me.

Antony, yes managers get players wrong but don’t usually keep playing them no matter how they play (Rashford as well)

You said, no doubt ETH would want a very athletic midfielder next to Mainoo and maybe a number 10 in the like of odegard. So why spend all our money on Mount and a Keeper and why £85m on Antony, why not prioritise these key players you identified?

20 Feb 2024 13:51:33
Ken, I don't necessarily think it will be like Ajax, more to the point that we will have football people above ETH who he can work with, Ashworth, Wilcox for example. Ajax he had Van Der Sar and Overmars. Currently it would appear he has no one of any credential.

20 Feb 2024 14:16:29
Eth is not know for his ability to compromise.
He is known for wanting substantial control in areas where I don't think he will be given substantial control.
So it's a case of if they back him up back him but if they don't ill back the new man as long as its not ole ?.

20 Feb 2024 14:19:10
Ken, I don't think where or how we finish the season really plays too much into it. Or at least it shouldn't.

Obviously a strong finish is better and creates a better atmosphere and more confidence heading into next season.

Yet the only really important thing is whether EtH is the right man for the project. Does he feel he is and does he want to take up that challenge, and does the new management structure think he is the right man and wants him to continue.

I don't think the new people at the club will base how the team plays for the next few months as any sort of major indicator as to the managers ability or suitability for the new project.

They will already know and it just depends on the views of the other new people who will join. I expect Berrada has been asked for his opinions, while I expect Dan Ashworth will also be key to making that decision, although I expect his opinions haven't yet been considered as he isn't in the role. If the club also hire a new head of recruitment then I expect their opinions will be considered but with less importance I'd imagine. More so about whether the managers views on what sort of players are needed match theirs and the clubs ideas.

The rumours are that EtH has some stimulations in his contract with regard his involvement in transfers. As to what that is who knows. It could be that he has final say on who goes and who signs, or that he can simply veto transfers he doesn't want.

Supposedly this is something that the new co-owners aren't particularly fond of and would want to see altered going forward.

Whether that is something EtH will be happy with who knows. But if he is to stay it will be under the new structure and he will have to be the one to adapt to it rather than it be adapted to suit him.

Who knows, maybe EtH was aware of previous issues with managers being pushed players they didn't want or weren't happy with. Or players given new deals against the managers wishes, and his insistence on having clauses in his contract to give him more control was a bid to stop the errors of the past resurfacing.

He worked with a more restrictive structure at Ajax and was happy to do so. Maybe he had more trust in VdS and Overmars than he has/ had in the management structure at United. Maybe he'll be happy to remove those clauses under the new structure, maybe he won't.

Who knows. Either way if he remains in charge next season it's because everyone thinks he's the best person for the job. If they replace him this summer it's because they feel the new guy they hired is better suited for the role. Either way and despite our personal opinions as fans our role is to support the club, the manager and the team next season. While we have exciting times ahead there will be ups and downs and the club needs supporters not fanboys who bitch and snipe at every decision, waiting and hoping for it to go wrong so they can say "I told you so" because being right to random strangers online is more important to them then the club being successful.

20 Feb 2024 15:35:41
Shappy

Always support the club, thick and thin, that is a given for all of us. I once spent an afternoon drinking with Wilf McGuiness, lovely man and that was his take as well, good and bad, thick and thin support the team and the club.

I suspect the transfer control will be a key area for ETH. If I was the new minority shareholder I would want to get the best structure in, best available people and ensure a very structured approach in which the manager is but one opinion and not the driver. For too long we have had a scattergun approach, then new manager turns up and start again. It has driven arguments about sticking with someone regardless of success. When SaF retired I felt we should be moving to a coach, coaching players in the same way Barcelona have it. The all powerful manager was great if you got SAF but then the other ones created chaos. Not just since SAF but think Sexton and Co. So it’s right we set up better control over transfers. It also means that EtH feelings don’t matter, the club decides and if ETH wants to be our coach he has an opinion but gets what he is given.
Ratcliffe has been given the power to deal with these situations so I don’t expect the majority owners to interfere, but a decision and clarity is important. We will be there to support the club and the team whatever that is. The manager is a transitory employee who we should not be bounced into automatically supporting, they have to earn our trust and no one is above criticism.

20 Feb 2024 15:55:03
I am not yet convinced ETH is tactically astute. Time will tell over the next few moths with a more settled squad.

20 Feb 2024 16:03:51
It’s ok saying it’s anoth 3 years project, but ETH had 2 years already and there are not many signs that things are any better and 400 million later too

We are two years in been awful purchases and loans many of whom were ETH personal recommendations, there still is no resemblance of a style, even though had injuries there should be a style emerged, the football we play is dire, boring and slow.

Lots of the problems have been of his own making, people keep mentioning Ajax they would not even get top 6 in epl… even when ETH was there

Is what we seen over past 2 years so far the standard we are looking for?

I know it’s well documented I don’t like him, but I fail to see what people see exactly, he is no bundle of joy, he not great with in game management he appears to be very stubborn and have a great knack of upsetting people, it’s not only him TBF the coaches are not great either!

I see if we’re starting again from scratch which looks likely, get rid of him and the coaches whilst we are at it, get someone in the new management team want and let’s start.

Because the rehearsal of which ETH had 2 years at is not looking that great

Don’t start saying 3rd last year, Ole got 2nd Jose got 2nd the football was no worse or better but arguably they achieved that with poorer squads.

I see nothing that warrants giving him more time.

20 Feb 2024 17:58:11
Strangeways, everything before INEOS and the club starting to be run properly doesn't really count in my eyes.

I know others will feel differently, but for me you can't judge how good a chef is when he's only been given gone off and mouldy food to cook with, a kitchen missing half the utensils and an oven that only works half the time and can't keep a consistent temperature.

For me it's a clean slate regardless of who is manager as we are only now starting to put in a structure that will allow success.

I disagree with using where you finish in the league from season to season as some sort of barometer for progress or success. It's deeply flawed, over simplistic and inaccurate.

For a start you aren't measuring the clubs progress against a consistent yard stick. The quality of the league and the other teams in the league vary massively from year to year.

For example the year Leicester won the title was probably one of the poorest quality leagues in many years. The fact that none of the more established teams could keep pace with Leicester who while having a good first 11, didn't have a great squad. Danny Drinkwater was a key player for them for Christ's sake.

They had 81 points, the same points we had when we finished 2nd under Jose (19 points off of winners City) .

The level of quality of the league varies massively across seasons.

To look at the relative strength of the league add the points totals of the top five teams together and the points totals of the bottom 5 teams. Then subtract the total of the bottom 5 teams from the top 5 teams. The bigger the number the greater the disparity across the league that season and the weaker the league was overall. A smaller the number would suggest less disparity across the league and a stronger league overall.

That would give you a more accurate estimate for the overall quality of the league. As the lower the difference means the league is more competitive, teams will drop more points against perceived lower quality opposition. While using the top five and the bottom five you are using half the league and covering for when you have one team just being massively superior or one team being absolutely awful.

I've said I expect we'll finish 4th or 5th this season. But with a massive clear out, a smaller and less experienced squad I'd expect us to finish lower next season all things being equal. However, if some of the teams in and around us have a drop in quality then we might well finish 4th or 5th again. But that would be more a mark of the drop off in quality of the league than it would be a mark of progress made by ourselves. As we will almost certainly be more inconsistent and drop more points due to having a smaller and less experienced squad who are just starting to learn to play together possibly in a new way with a new coaching set up.

Fans need to be prepared for that.

20 Feb 2024 18:27:29
Red man you’re here again having a pop at the manager!

I’m not rashford biggest fan at all but I totally agree with Ahmad and ETH, with our current options our best 11 and most dangerous 11 includes rashford!
To say otherwise is strange unless you are going to tell me you know a player within the squad who should start?

20 Feb 2024 19:01:18
But the thing is just look at how many players that ETH actually bought in buys or loans and exactly how many are good enough, that says it all, you can’t keep blaming the squad when virtually he bought in half of that squad, so if we are not saying because he finished 3rd is a reason to keep him what is the reason to keep him?
Poor eye for a player
No tactical awareness
Loath to change
Stubborn
Poor man manager
Poor in game management
Ability to upset everyone
Don’t seem to learn
No fixed style
Many the problems are self inflicted
Don’t even come across as likeable

So tell me what’s the positives with him that he deserves more time, I am curious.

20 Feb 2024 19:36:58
Tumble

I posted a while ago it might be a mutual divorce if the changes don't fit with what eth wants as he is not the type to just be given players and will want a big say. I am not in the camp that he is bad manager and suspect if he goes he will end up in a big club.

Even the players who have left never say a bad thing about him so all this stuff about his man management skills is just bs imo. He actually goes out of his way not to throw players under the bus which frustrates some of our fans.

Redman

When you have 33 year old keeper who is error prone on 375k you make a decision not to give him a new contract and to buy a younger keeper at 100k (fergie went through keepers like a cleanex box for a while until we got van der sar) .


Onana is not a disaster as people make him out to be but every mistake of his is magnified because of who he plays for. He does make me nervous but not to the point of he must go and need to see more and not one to quickly judge. He has been solid recently and only in his first year. let's wait and see.

When we spend what we spent in the last week of the window on Cas and Antony the next season you buy for other more pressing areas and he does not negotiate fees or salaries for players.

Mount has been injured all year its not the managers fault and personally believe he will turn out to be one heck of a player for us and will make sure to remind you on this. None of us have any idea what he wanted to do if he had cas, mainoo, mount available at the start of the season and have never seen them all available. I say wait and see before you throw stones at glass houses.

We are absolutely a better team with rash in the lineup.

I have followed this page for a long time and you just can't let anything go and see all the wrongs. Your issue is you can never get past a mistake and always hold it against a player or the manager.

You were on and on about "the rat" for months had convinced yourself its the end of us, I guess SJR is not as bad a you made him out to be and maybe has the best interest of the club at heart. My view is wait and see on most things.

20 Feb 2024 19:45:30
Chris

I am, as a fan, saying ETH needs to improve. You would be naive to think the new minority shareholder is happy with where we are and I strongly suspect he is looking for improvement, ETH will now know what is expected. That isn’t a pop, it’s laying out what improvements need to happen. Anyone who has had that objective setting meeting with a manager who reports to you will understand.
In terms of Rashford, we are carrying him, his reputation is getting him selected. A focussed Rash is in our first 11 at the moment but he isn’t focussed. We are hoping he does what he did in the past. He has to improve or should be dropped and sold if it doesn’t change. Consistency is talked about, how consistent has he been? We are 10.5 at the moment not 11, Those who do have the right attitude should get a chance unless Rash gets his head right immediately. Otherwise totally the wrong message to the squad.

20 Feb 2024 20:18:14
Ahmad

Ratcliffe option left us with the Glazers and the debt still in place, hence rightly referring to him as the rat for doing that. I had no doubt he would have a positive impact but as I have said a number of times we need the leeches out altogether and Ratcliffe has enabled them to stay, so that is bad.

20 Feb 2024 21:06:29
The fact that without knowing the man or having a clue about their plans and vision for the club you take the liberty to name call him speaks volumes and just a lack of respect or any objectivity.

20 Feb 2024 21:24:27
Shappy

Good point.

Chris

The reality is this team needs rash and Bruno on the pitch and in good form. we will not get top 4 without them two. We are doing well but much tougher games coming and need both in our starting 11.

Personally i think bruno has been poor by bruno standards for about 12 months now has far too many average games especially against the better sides. Not sure why that is as its not for the lack of effort.

20 Feb 2024 22:03:48
Ahmad

Objectivity

Do we still have the Glazers as owners? Does the debt remain outstanding? Did the Glazers pick up £1.25Bn from Ratcliffe? With £1.25bn in their bank, does that make it easier or harder for the Glazers to sit back for a while and not have to sell?

20 Feb 2024 22:11:43
Red Man you need to better understand how acquisitions work. The glazers will not be here forever. The day will come. What is happening now is sensible, regardless of how inpatient you might be.

20 Feb 2024 23:37:06
At the moment it's a clear choice of rashford or Anthony.
1. Garnacho would be moved to left if Anthony plays. Where he is far less effective.
2. Anthony is less effective than Rashford.
In an ideal world for me in the summer both rashford and Anthony would be sold.
I have been a huge supporter of rashford for years. I think he would excel if he moved abroad. The only thing I care about is if he excels at united and he had not done that for a long time. He looks disinterested and unhappy and has done fit a long time. He has behaved poorly in more than 1 occasion very publicly. You can see none of the aforementioned traits and you stand alone on that.
But I think both will be here next season.

21 Feb 2024 09:34:37
Tumble

People can question rash's attitude happiness etc etc. he got us top 4 last year period and carried the team imo. He has has a poor season to date by his standards and everyone's expectations. I have no insight to what is going on and if there are personal issues. All I know is that there is no one better in the squad someone can convince me off to justify rash not being in the starting 11.

All will be forgiven if he bangs 10 goals from here in big games which he seems to ahve a knack for over the years against the likes of city, liverpool, arsenal and I suspect we may get that. let's wait and see

I do agree if he moves he will light it up and agree club will never sell him.

Question? if arsenal or city come in with a massive bid, which is what it will take would you sell to a major competitor?

21 Feb 2024 09:59:52
Good post wazza and ahmad.
1 set of standards for redman one for everybody else. Online bullying he calls it himself. I'd suggest you and your like are the rats.
Redman sjr is a major shareholder.
Just to highlight your ignorance can you list all the shareholders and their shareholding individually of the a and b shares.

21 Feb 2024 10:37:10
Yes ahmad. My hope is that if he doesn't move abroad that Chelsea sign him.
I never care what a player can do for another team I only care about what he does for our team.
He did not secure us top 4 last year. No player does that ahmad it's a team game.
Even the fact you say that lads me to believe you never played the game and don't understand it.
Nobody that truly understands football would ever believe that imo.

21 Feb 2024 10:38:46
Ahmad I've never said the club would never sell him. I think they would sell him in a heartbeat now if a silly offer came in. But on his contract he has to be the one to force the move. I really hope he does.

21 Feb 2024 11:25:57
I think Rashy is having a woeful season (by his standards) . But comes on the back of a stellar one. So there is a player there, his problem is a mental one not ability. I wonder if a change might do him some good. This season his effort seems to have tailed off and his decision-making is poor. Both our wide players seem to hurtle towards the goal and try to get a shot in rather than make the most of the chance by putting it in the box. Garnacho has been a little better in recent games.

21 Feb 2024 14:08:10
Ken/ Tumbleweed

Back to stalking me again. Guess the insults are a compliment because you can’t shut me up with them and you must becoming more frustrated because you can’t control someone for once. Surprised they don’t let you just open up your Ken account again rather than hide behind the fake Tumble account, after all it is just more of the same.

On Shareholding, ignorance is an interesting word, just it’s isn’t my ignorance. Given my working history mostly in senior financial management roles and my deep understanding of this area that I use daily, I would be happy to give you some lessons.

21 Feb 2024 15:15:53
Please list me the United shareholders with the individual shareholdings.
I'm sure you will find it easy to get online.
This will make it clear for everybody and stop you peddling your false narratives about Sir Jim's shareholding.

21 Feb 2024 21:45:56
Ken

I am not playing your game and not spending one minute reviewing or posting the corporate share structure at United.
There have been no false narratives about Ratcliffe from me. He is not a majority share holder, may individually have more than an individual Glazer but the glazer family retain majority control. He has less than 30%.


You defend the Glazers far too strongly.

20 Feb 2024
New image uploaded to the
Manchester United Player Sightings page entitled, Just saying...

Click picture for larger image

20 Feb 2024 08:55:59
LOL I almost uploaded this last week. Too funny.

20 Feb 2024 13:25:11
If Gerrard was the player he thought he was then he'd easily have been the greatest player to have ever played the game.

He had all the skills required to a be a top player, strong, fairly quick, technically very good, good reading of the game, good in the air, with a wicked shot on him. His ability to slot into most positions on the pitch definitely didn't help him, especially at a club that at the time had a squad with real gaps and weaknesses in it, meaning he was often shifted to cover for injuries or inferior players.

He never really was able to tie down one position as his own, to develop in a specific role and truly make that role his own.

He played CDM, CM, CAM, CB, RB, RW and LW.

His real weakness though as a player was his ego, his need to always be the one to win it on his own. He thought he was Roy of the Rovers. As such he didn't get the best out of his teammates and that was what held his sides back.

I wonder how much Southgate saw the issue with Gerrard and Lampard for England and how that has factored into his decision to hardly use TAA despite him being technically one of the best English players. The problem with TAA is similar to the issue with Gerrard. A gifted player but one that seems to not quite have found a natural home/ role on the pitch.

TAA has clear deficiencies at RB, but hasn't developed the skills required to play in midfield. He maybe isn't quite suited to being a RW. He's a gifted player but always seems like a square peg in a round hole.

Unlike Southgate's predecessors though he seems to recognise that and instead of trying to crowbar the most gifted players into a team he picks the players best suited to play as a team.

Maybe England would have been more successful if they didn't try and force Gerrard into the team. Or Gerrard might have been more successful if he settled in one role and mastered that. He had all the skills to be one of the best midfielders in the world. But when talking about specific roles you'd want in your midfield you will always be able to name better/ more suited players. The best deeplying playmaker, the best CDM, the best CAM, the best box to box midfielders. Does Gerrard really stand out as any of those despite being able to play each role well.

Personally I think he should have either been a CAM like when he played off of Torres. Leaning into his tendency to try and be the match winner. Or alternatively I think he could have been a phenomenal RB if he developed his game in that position. He was strong and a good tackler, read the game well defensively, strong in the air, had great running power and a great delivery from wide. Also playing him deeper and in defence might have nullified his tendency to try and be the match winner, instead allowing him to focus on his own game and what was best for the team. If he's been allowed to develop there and played that position consistently for the first few years of his career then I think he'd be considered the best RB of his generation, possibly ever.

Yet he was that player who was sort of great at everything but never mastered a particular position/ role which ultimately I think stopped him from becoming the best player in a particular position.

20 Feb 2024 14:11:41
Disagree with this one Shappy. I think England tried to force Lampard into the team and the expense of Scholes. We went to Germany and beat them 5-1 in their own back yard with a midfield pairing of Scholes and Gerrard. The year before we didn't even qualify from the group at Euro 2000 and Gerrard was never in the starting 11. You'll argue Lampards goals from Midfield but he only scored 3 goals at a major tournament for England, not a great return for a goal scoring midfielder. I begrudgingly think Gerrard was a fantastic player.

20 Feb 2024 14:14:51
Gerrard was awesome, one of the best if his generation. Scholes summed it up, he carried Liverpool on his shoulders and single handedly won matches. The problem for England was he and Lampard were basically playing the same role.

My picture was posted in jest, even Scholes himself talks about what a great player Gerrard was.

20 Feb 2024 14:39:31
Gerrard was a top player so was Scholes imo as was lampard.

20 Feb 2024 15:50:33
I think it was the limitations of the managers who couldn't work out how to get the three of them into the same team with a system that got the best out of them.

20 Feb 2024 16:44:18
There's no reason why a midfield three of lampard, gerrard and Scholes couldn't have worked with a decent coach.

Also, the season under Benitez where they almost won the league- didn't Gerrard play a lot at RW and was exceptional?

20 Feb 2024 16:51:39
Three into two is not ever, ever, going to happen.
A good manager would have realised that and made an appropriate decision early on, it may well of resulted in success.
No doubt the criticism they would of received from an essentially hostile press, when it comes to England, would of made such a decision counter productive on a personal level.
Then again I'm Welsh so what the hell!

20 Feb 2024 18:19:27
For those people who think that there was a way to make Gerrard, Lampard and Schole work as a midfield three, do you also think you could have made Kaka, Zidane and Modric work as a midfield three?

Because I'd argue that Kaka and Lampard are both players who are remembered for their ability to ghost into the box and score.

Zidane and Gerrard were both physically strong players who could win games on their own, but both probably were better being creative than defensive.

Modric and Scholes are diminutive technically superb players players who would occasionally put in a poorly timed tackle or score a screamer, but mostly just moved the ball around and found pockets of space.

So in theory if Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes could work as an effective midfield three then so should Zidane, Kaka and Modric.

The reality is that they couldn't work together as they lacked key components needed to balance a midfield.

A serious lack of defensive nous and work rate to start with. No one with real bite or aggression (controlled aggression) .

While with Gerrard and Lampard (less so with Scholes) there was too much ego and need to be number one. They couldn't work effectively together because both wanted to take the glory and play to their strengths and weren't willing to make sacrifices to their game for the benefit of the team.

Personally I think England have consistently made awful selections born out of outdated ignorance and plain stupidity.

Terry shouldn't have been a regular, he was a decent player carried by better players around him. He was a slightly better Harry Maguire. Slow, often out of place and regularly making last ditch tackles because he was in the wrong position. But he was a big name and captain for a league challenging side.

Carrick was woefully under used as was Scholes. Neither had the big personalities that England seemed to favour over talent and tactical intelligence. Despite both being central to the success of the most successful English team at the time.

The mistake with England was that it was always looked at as being a "Galactico" style team. Picked like picking the team of the season or an FPL team. Who scores the most goals and whose the highest rated. Pick them out and stick them in the blender together and you'll have a great team.

Yet team building isn't about picking the biggest name or supposed best player in each position. It's about create a unit of players who can work well together to get the most out of eachothers skills. Sometimes that means leaving a big name player out all together rather than trying to crowbar them in at the expense of the team just to have a glitzier team sheet.

20 Feb 2024 19:20:14
Who was a better CB to play instead of Terry than at the time in question?

I would pick Terry in any ENgland team of that generation, same as would Pick Butcher of his generation, there are some players that have to be included.

Like the dropping Gazza idea, how can you go to a tournament without your generational talent!

But leaders like Terry, you don’t not take to battles with you, unless you have better and who was better?

20 Feb 2024 20:38:09
Shappy, I'm lost with that sorry. Why are they similar?

20 Feb 2024 22:13:12
Sepp, hats off to you if you read all of that.

21 Feb 2024 01:15:01
Shappy.
Have you just really said that
Zidane kaka and modric is similar to Gerrard lampard Scholes?
Get off the bus will ya ???.

 


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