Manchester United banter 8

03 Apr 2024 07:39:10
{Ed's Note - Shappy has posted a new article entitled, Concerns about Erik ten Hag at Manchester United

03 Apr 2024 08:05:51
Your opening statement is garbage. I have a Masters in Psychology. I’ve worked in sports and business in these very topics.

For starters attitude and motivation are completely different psychological constructs. Attitudes can and do change. Some daily. Ask Tory voters from 5 and 10-years ago if you’d like an example. Ask people about their diets and eating habits. Or smoking. An attitude can change immediately based on a life experience or a single well formed argument.

Motivation: it’s the role of the manager to find out what motivates each player individually. SAF was elite level at this. So was Jose in his prime. They could make players feel like they could run through walls. And of course they change. Each of us in our work and family lives experience peaks and troughs. We are motivated by internal and external rewards (and I assume you know what they are) . Finding the right reward for the right player is key. But, and this is a big but, so is knowing when and how to punish for poor work ethic. This is where ETH is floundering and stubborn.

Anyhow Dr. Shappy. By all means have an opinion. But don’t try and sound academic about it when you clearly haven’t got a clue. It weakens your entire premise and changes people’s attitudes towards you.

Did you see what I did there?

03 Apr 2024 10:26:06
Brd.
I couldn't agree more.
I've been posting about traits I don't like to see in any manager and eth has many.
Without being on the team you can't be exact but there are certain traits that are quite obvious from the outside and you hear bits on the outside too.

03 Apr 2024 11:33:16
What more motivation would you need than the reward of winning a game of football in front of thousands of people that worship the ground you walk on? Oh yeah, not to mention the £350k a week you're getting paid to do it. £350k a week, to turn up for 90 minutes and put effort in, or at least look like you are.

This is a group of overpaid, primadonnas who have allowed countless managers be held accountable for their performances. If this was any other line of work they would have had their P45s a long time ago.

ETH, love him or hate him has no doubt divided opinion, but I'm sick of seeing the focus be on him constantly whilst the players yet again get let off. Just look at the last 15 posts here and see how many are focused on ETH.

03 Apr 2024 12:33:37
Some players simply need to go. They either don't fit the way we want to play, or they have shown they only turn it on when they need a contract. The club needs to facilitate the required outs and find some ins that can pull the team out if this mire.

Wonder how many of the squad are demotivated by seeing rashford's performances week in week out yet he still is paid the most in the squad and picked and played everytime.

How many players are frustrated by bruno playing yet another stupid pass when a simple dangerous pass was the best option.

How many are frustrated watching bruno, anthony, rashford shooting from 30 yards through traffic rather than trying to create a chance for hoylund.

Unfortunately I don't see a big clear out in the summer. So we will be the same misfit squad next year. Some manager (eth or new one) will have a lofty expectation placed on their shoulders when the squad does not match that ambition.

It is a long way back to the top.

03 Apr 2024 12:57:22
Kurtis.
Nobody I've read is giving the players a pass. I think you are so steadfast in your loathing of some players that you give the manager a pass. If you think eth is blameless for our plight I'm surprised
Everybody needs motivation. The money has little to do with it in most cases.

03 Apr 2024 13:38:37
Kurtis, you're right about the players but ETH keeps picking them.

03 Apr 2024 13:48:04
Tumble - I think those that support EtH also accept he’s not perfect or blameless but several players have now consistently under performed for different managers and the same problems are still occurring.

I think EtH was on the right lines, he wanted to sell the likes of Maguire, Mctominay, Martial, AwB etc he has also dealt with Sancho but they all still remain at the Club. It’s hard to progress and succeed when you are forced to use players that don’t fit your system or the direction you want to take.

Whilst I don’t speak for all those that went to give EtH more time, my fear is that if another manager is appointed all these players will get yet another chance.

We know Maguire can’t play a high line, we know AWB is poor in possession, we know Mctominay is also poor is possession and can’t control the midfield. A new manager is not suddenly going to change this.

The new CEO does not start until the summer and the DoF has still not been appointed. Who is going to make the decision? EtH may ultimately lose his job, I accept he’s far from perfect but I’d like the footballing structure in place first and the experts to make the decision.

I fear appointing a new manager now may cause more harm than good. There are no obvious candidates and the thought of Southgate or Potter fill me with dread.

If we accept the rebuild may take some time why not get the experts in place first and let them review the situation and make the decisions. I think most people are only saying give him another year.

I fully accept all teams suffer from injury but we have a poor, unbalanced squad and have suffered long term injuries to key players. I’m convinced that without all the injuries we’d have finished in the top 4 again.

If the EtH outers have a replacement in mind, I’m all for listening to a reasonable and articulate argument, but without the footballing structure in place I don’t trust the Club to make the right decision.

03 Apr 2024 14:22:29
Agreed DLIB, he is far from perfect, no good manager is. A very balanced post again.

We must look beyond the manager and go to the core, to the structure, the players, and the injuries to top it all off have been atrocious.

Another good manager, that will unfortunately fall on a poorly ran clubs sword. Scratch that, a terrible club.

03 Apr 2024 14:40:34
Wow angel you were pro sacking ole Pro sacking Jose Pro sacking lvg.
Who was the good manager you supported moyes?
I understand he has done pretty much as well as eth since eth came to England but is moyes the guy you think should have been given more time? Is he the good manager your refer to?
You wanted the others fired so it can only be moyes.
If you think it's an awful club why bother?
Manchester United is not an terrible club its a great club.

03 Apr 2024 14:46:12
Plenty of studies have been done on the motivation of money. It’s the most short lived motivator there is. And can be very clearly seen in sqids such as ours. Very highly paid, underperforming jokers.

03 Apr 2024 16:37:24
Tumble - I don’t want to speak for Angelred, but maybe like me and some others he has learnt over the years that maybe the manager is not the problem.

Several players have consistently demonstrated poor or inconsistent form, a poor attitude and a lack of hunger, motivation and/ or desire. This despite the appointment of several different managers. There is nothing wrong with getting to the point when debating if sacking yet another manager whilst retaining many of the same underperforming players is the solution.

Fan opinion is often vilified, but like many others I have watched and absorbed every Utd game for the past 40 years. I watch any football that’s on the Tv. I read articles, forums, books, listen to podcasts. Whilst I don’t claim to be any kind of expert, I think many fan opinion and knowledge of the Club is often far more valid that some journalists or pundits that don’t watch Utd on a regular basis.

Reports suggest Utd now intend to keep a lot of players EtH was willing to let go last summer with the futures of Maguire, Mctominay, AWB, amongst others still undecided. The same reports also suggest that the Club have no intention of selling the likes of Bruno or even Rashford. There is talk of a new contract for Mctominay.

We’ve seen years of Rashford struggling against a low block, we’ve discussed at length his inconsistent form and seemingly poor attitude or body language. We’ve all seen Bruno continually surrender possession. We all know Maguire lacks pace and has mobility issues. Mctominay is not a dominant, ball playing midfielder. I could go on and on. A lot of these players are only suited to one brand of football. Sit deep and counter attack.

My question to Ineos or any Utd fan that’s wants to see the back of EtH, if all the same players are retained, EtH is sacked, how can we expect to progress and evolve the style of football no matter who the manager?

I think we now have enough evidence to suggest this is not a coaching issue and a lot of these players are simply not good enough or have the correct mentality for the Club to challenge for the top honours.

03 Apr 2024 16:49:06
Squids? Eric itz bad enough having players with 2 bad feet ??.

03 Apr 2024 17:57:05
Dlib who says all the players are being retained?
Where have you seen that? I'm confused as to why you think that's the plan?

03 Apr 2024 18:02:46
Dlib it very much is a coaching issue.
I'm not sure what evidence you have that says there is no coaching issue.
After 4 years of eth coaching Anthony is doing what exactly?
Now we have rashford and garnacho doing e a try what Anthony does.
What is Bruno's role?
Why is our midfield so open? Why do we concede so many shots?
Why do we score so few goals?
If that's nothing to do with coaching I'm not sure that you know what a coaches responsibilities are.

03 Apr 2024 18:41:29
Evidence Tumble, evidence. Whenever a new manager is appointed all the underperforming players have been given another chance, plus reports in the media suggesting players will be retained. Ok, if you don’t want head the lessons of the past let’s just see what happens if EtH is sacked, we’ll soon have the answer if that happens.

I don’t think you understand what coaching is? If managers could magically make players better then Pep or Klopp could win the premier league with a bunch of amateurs. They couldn’t even win the league with this bunch of Utd players.

Managers can have a massive impact on teams, I’m not diminishing their importance, they implement tactics, organise the team, provide inspiration and motivation but they don’t magically transfer average players into superstars.

Generally teams consistently improve by recruiting better players.

EtH hasn’t been able to consistently pick his best side. His most important players have been missing for most of the season. Look what happened to Liverpool when they had an injury crisis last year. If it was all down to coaching what happened to them?

My point remains several of these players have underperformed for different managers, we’ve had long term injuries to important first team players, a lot of the players are simply not good enough and that’s been proven over a number of years. Let’s move on now!

03 Apr 2024 22:52:04
Shappy. I want to pick up on something from your toilet paper gossip column worthy literature.
You wrote the following.

Some players are driven to success because they are chasing glory and sporting immortality. They want their names to be remembered. Other see it as a way out of poverty and their only chance to build a better life. You need the former to be successful, the latter will lose determination once they get their big contract, for them football is a job, and like the vast majority of people they will do just enough and no more.

Tell that to players such as Sadio Mane.

Sure there are a few out there who fall into this category, but 'the vast majority's is a bit wide of the mark.

04 Apr 2024 12:50:42
Jimbo, so are you suggesting that Saido Mane was only in it for the money and not for the glory?

Sure he used football as a way out of poverty, but his choices during his career suggest there was something other than pure money in his thinking.

He had other more lucrative offers when he chose to join Liverpool, but he wanted to go to a team he believed could win titles.

When he left Liverpool he had the option to go to Saudi and earn a ridiculous amount of money, but chose to join Bayern Munich instead for less money. Probably because he felt he had more time in his career and he wanted to stay at the top and try and win major titles.

To me that suggests that he has a drive to succeed and be the best he can be, to make a name for himself and play for glory.

Sure it's a bit more nuanced than the slightly more reductive glory/ money split I've suggested. But broadly speaking most players will fit predominantly into one of the two categories. They either became footballers for the glory, for their names to be held in the same company as the greatest players, to win titles and become immortal for the fans they represent. Or they want the footballers lifestyle, they want the money and the fame, maybe they want to get their family out of poverty, maybe they just want the big house, flash cars and young women.

I don't judge them, it's their life and what is important to them is their business. Just obviously as a Manchester United supporter I'd prefer the majority of the players in our squad are from the former category rather than the later.

04 Apr 2024 13:34:55
No need to be rude Jimbo.

04 Apr 2024 13:41:34
DLIB, I don't anyone expects ETH to turn average players into superstars but like you say we should at least to expect to see some evidence of tactics, organisation and motivation, plus maybe some improvement of some players.

As it is we see none of these things. The team is a disorganised mess with no obvious way of playing. Certain players are totally unmotivated and only a couple of players show any sign of improvement.

On top of all that ETH continually picks players who are obvious liabilities.

I'm not expecting mircles but I see zero signs of anything you would expect from a half decent coach.

04 Apr 2024 13:52:00
Dilb that's exactly what good managers do. Turn players into great posters.

04 Apr 2024 19:34:43
No shappy, you've stated one or the other. I'm saying Mane falls into both categories.
I used to think your ridiculously long posts were worthy of my time, however they are now becoming more nonsensical as the days run on.

02 Apr 2024 20:52:48
Rumours that Martinez has picked up a calf strain in training and out for a few weeks. If true, it's April, the season nearing the end, surely training should not be so intense. Questions must be asked how we are getting so many injuries in training.

02 Apr 2024 22:21:17
What are you taking about Redman? He's been out for months, he needs to be trading to get back up to speed. And when someone has had a long layoff like that, very common to get small strains as the body is readjusting.

Sick of reading about the training being too hard. Can only imagine it comes from players who don't want to do the work. City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Aston villa, Newcastle and many others in the league look a lot fitter than we are. We just played Brentford and got out run, out worked all over the pitch. Hard work is expected. That said, for all we know Martinez could have strained a calf doing the most innocuous jog, it happens to players recovering match fitness.

02 Apr 2024 22:21:28
When you have been out as long as he has, it's very easy to pick up another injury as some parts over compensate for other parts, maybe not being as healthy and fully recovered. Nothing to do with training and happens to plenty of players. He looks a lot heavier and bulkier than when he is fit.

02 Apr 2024 22:21:40
Being reported on Sky Sports.

02 Apr 2024 23:10:17
Listen to any top player under Fergie and they all say the training was intense. Train like you play, is a phase I’ve often heard a lot them use.

Martinez is unfortunately a crock. The bloke is never fit. If this was Varane everyone would be up in arms. He’s virtually missed the entire season now and the last 3 months of the previous one as well. Simply not good enough. A fit Martinez is a real asset, I love his aggression and ability on the ball but it’s no good if he’s never fit. Another problem to add to the long list.

03 Apr 2024 00:30:10
A little harsh to say he’s a crock, he broke his foot, that’s not exactly anything he can do much about, coming back from that he has hurt his knee in a challenge, it can happen, it’s not like he’s constantly out with a hamstring injury etc. Before he broke his foot he had missed around 10-15 games injured in his whole career, so he’s been unfortunate, not a crock.

03 Apr 2024 03:57:30
There is also something about our medical department rushing him back and he wasn't right and had a relapse. Our medical department has been terrible and hopefully ineos will put that right.

03 Apr 2024 04:56:33
Training not being intense enough is the reason why there are so many muscular injuries happening. Personally, I think that your players came into the season a bit undercooked and that you messed up the pre-season by going on tour too early. We made the same mistake last year and loads of our players were injured as well. The medical department definitely plays a part in rushing back players too quickly but for injury prevention, the fitness department needs a look as well.

03 Apr 2024 05:30:28
This latest setback is precisely why we need 2 CBs as priority signings - a younger rotational/ backup option for the left and a starter on the right.

The next best current option for us on the left side is Shaw who has also had his season curtailed by injury. Then what, Evans or Maguire.

We don't need to spaff £70+m on Branthwaite, we need to start boxing clever. Another interesting name is Calafiori of Bologna.

The options we'll inevitably look at for the right side are obvious - established and expensive.

Personally, I'd go for a LB over a RB this summer, the latter can be addressed next season.

03 Apr 2024 06:56:33
55 injuries Redman, I'd be more inclined to ask wtf is going on with the medical department.

Training being too intense, give us a break ?.

03 Apr 2024 09:39:37
Right training is all ok then, nothing to see . Players getting regular injuries in training at the end of a hard season all normal.

03 Apr 2024 10:10:41
Nothing to do with the medical dept I've heard it all now.
Score a few own goals with those deflections angel?.

03 Apr 2024 10:44:27
Redman in some parts of Ireland where angel is from if you get sick it's the doctors fault and if you need to go to the hospital it's the hospitals fault.
First thing they say when the walk into the doc is "look at what you've done to me" unbelievable Geoff ??.

03 Apr 2024 10:49:21
I read yesterday that Newcastle while looking to do a whole review at the end of season due to the about of injuries they have sustained this year.
There will be a reasons and changes to be made in prep work I'd guess.

03 Apr 2024 11:12:14
The Prem is the toughest league in the world, and it's getting tougher. There are more games than ever, and they'd like more.
Although Utd have had a crap hand this season all clubs have injuries, including the top ones. Clearly City and Liverpool at least have strong enough squads to cope and bring in quality when it happens to them, we don't have anything inspiring in reserve at all when I look at the bench.

03 Apr 2024 11:27:53
Red Man I think there are a few reasons why the players are getting injured. The whole league got record injuries this season, not just United, its through the whole league I have never seen Injuries this bad for almost all the 20 clubs in the league. The only difference I can see that changed in recent times is the world cup being played mid season, having a shorter recovery period in the summer and this is the result. You can blame ETH for a lot of things if that's how you are but I don't think this is one of them.

03 Apr 2024 13:05:53
Dio I would suggest that has had a huge impact.
As you say it's not just united. A lot of clubs have had a lot of injuries last 18 months.
Players are overplayed that's the problem.
You get dopes saying they should be able to play every day on 300k a week blah blah blah.
Athletic stars perform at most every couple of weeks.
Rugby stars never more than one a week
Race horses once a week.
Swimmers a major gala once a month
The list goes on.
The intensity at which the game is played means there are more injuries and that's compounded by their workload.
These guys are being flogged to death physically and their bodies can't cope.
I'll tell you for sure our medical team are not to blame for the injuries only a complete idiot would think that.

03 Apr 2024 13:14:23
Ten Hag blamed United's persistent injuries on an 'overload' of games and pointed out that other Premier League teams have suffered as well.

'You can't prevent it, it's not only us who've had this, ' he added. 'The standards of the Premier League from an intensity perspective are so high, the overload of the schedule, international football is so huge, and we have internationals in our squad. “

Intense training at the end of a long hard season is perfectly fine of course.

03 Apr 2024 17:02:47
I’m bemused by people complaining about intense training.

It is obvious in every game that the squad are incapable of playing high tempo/ high intensity football for more than twenty minutes a game. The ground covered per game by our squad is consistently one of the lowest in the league. Everything is pointing to the players being not in good enough physical condition to compete at the top level of the EPL.

Why are the team doing high intensity training toward the end of the season? Because they’re not in good enough shape to compete. People want the manager to push the players, but he can’t push them if they are unable to get to the required level of physical condition in strength and stamina to actually compete.

03 Apr 2024 17:07:26
RedMan - You’ve always struck me as a very considered and knowledgeable poster. I always enjoy reading your posts but for once I think I must respectfully disagree.

I don’t think we have any reliable evidence of the training sessions being too intense. I have read a few reports which seem to originate from sources allegedly close to some players.

I watched them against Brentford, witnessed their lack of application, motivation, energy, hunger, intensity or desire. This was not the first time we’ve seen this. I find it hard to believe that they are busting a gut in training and getting injured when they can’t even be bothered to work hard with the prerequisite effort and intensity in Premier League games. Of course this is just my opinion.

03 Apr 2024 17:39:25
Redman would blame eth for the standard of the bathrooms at OT if he could. The page is split between those who are looking to throw sh. t at him for every set back, results, injuries, players forms, selection etc etc and those who don't see it that way. Just look at how many players are injured with serious stuff across the league.
Some of ours were injury prone even before eth arrived so nothing new move on.


Its a pointless debate as neither side will change their view. Massive game tonight and a win will go a long way and we stay in it with a fighting chance.

03 Apr 2024 17:55:04
DLIB

Thank you, happy to discuss as always, differing opinions are what the site is about.

The evidence is the injuries in training, muscle injuries as well, then they look too tired to press or maintain intensity on match day. There have been consistent rumours the players are unhappy with the intensity of the training. Team players moan and often it is just they don’t like something but the evidence of a lack of intensity in games has to come from somewhere. At their age I could run quite a bit, they do not seem to, why? After Brentford last season ETH ran them the 13 Km they didn’t run in the game, they did better, next games but is he still trying to do that?

I recall previous discussions on training, including during SAF tenure, intense pre season and through the season but as the season goes on and certainly near the end when playing back to back matches the training was not as intense, to allow body recovery. Hell Giggs was on Yoga. (Not the local floosy) Are we doing lung busting running?

My original post was that it needs investigating, I didn’t directly blame ETH, but there have to be questions on why these training injuries are occurring. Who organises the training and flogs the players?
Something isn’t right when we are getting injuries at this level in training.

03 Apr 2024 18:04:22
Tonight?

03 Apr 2024 18:15:01
Danny I hear you and all very valid.
We are miles off the other teams in the speed of our play the speed we move the ball and get around the pitch.
That will not be fixed in April that needs doing pre season. We were not fit enough from day 1 this season it stands out like a sore thumb.
Who is to blame for that? Can't be eth he just needs more time to implement his process
Might be easier with 2 game a week next season??.

03 Apr 2024 19:01:40
Redman - I fully agree it needs investigating, I’m just not convinced the intensity of the training is the problem, of course I could be wrong.

Other managers have complained regarding a lack of fitness. Rangnick complained the players weren’t fit enough. His gengenpressing pressing lasted 45 minutes against Crystal Palace in his first game. It was probably the best football we saw all that season.

Ole also bemoaned a lack of fitness and work rate.

A lot of our players have consistently picked up injuries prior to EtH.

Martial, Varane, Shaw were always susceptible to injury, Maguire started to pick up the odd injury even under Ole, Mount was injured at Chelsea in his final season. Hoijlund arrived with a back injury.

It’s been a terrible season.

03 Apr 2024 20:23:33
muppetiers has a podcast today and interesting stuff about united injuries. don't agree with everything he says or don't know if its true but food for thought.

One interesting thing he mentioned is klop had 40 injuries by January in his first year at liverpool changing their style of play and getting them to be much more physical and a pressing style. Did not know that. He als0 mentioned klop got rid of a lot of players who could not physically do what he wanted. Interesting stuff on city and arsenal too.

03 Apr 2024 20:58:39
Ahmad - I think Klopp instilled a philosophy that Liverpool had to be fitter, faster and quicker than their opponents. He placed great value in the running power of his players theorising only then would their extra skill and ability make the difference.

One of the metrics used to recruit players was RSA or repeated sprint ability, the ability to perform continuous high intensity sprints. I think this was a metric players like Mane, Firminho and Salah excelled amongst others.

Every aspect of performance is measured and analysed at most top Clubs and also used in recruitment. It wouldn’t surprise me if Utd have been behind the curve again.

03 Apr 2024 22:26:44
DlIB

He basically says something along those lines and also says that's how eth wants to play. He says he benched those ideas in the first year as he realized the players we had can't do it and the pl is very tough league.

He also says this year they have tried to push ahead and get us to be more physically prepared but also mentions many in this squad can't cope playing that way and why he plays certain players every game when fit as they are the few that can do what he wants.

Finally said something along the lines that united have had this issue for years and previous managers have also faced this and our recruitment has not been like the likes of city have changed their recruitment over the years to cope same as arsenal, liverpool where they emphasize a certain type of physical output a player must have as requirement before buying them.

03 Apr 2024 22:51:49
Ahmad - All very interesting pal, cheers.

03 Apr 2024 22:53:25
Hold the press! Some of the posters forgot to wipe their bottoms this morning!

Blame Eth.

04 Apr 2024 11:36:13
So his signings of ericksen casimero Anthony amrabat mount and malacia do not fall into that profile of player. Laughable.

02 Apr 2024 20:38:15
I assume that ETH does not tell his players to go out and play with no passion and desire. I am sure that LVG and Jose also did not. All three managers did manage teams they built and who played good football and won trophies. Ultimately it's the players on the pitch who score or concede goals.

So it seems to me that there is a collective failure primarily of the players. The question is how to sort this out. I wonder if a sports psychologist is employed by Utd and if not why not.

02 Apr 2024 20:44:11
Good post Salford.

02 Apr 2024 21:19:11
Lindelof and Martinez out for a month. Starting to think maybe just let martinez sit out the rest of the season and get a healthy martinez back for the us tour and next year.

Martinez done his calf and I think one month is optimistic. they are very nasty and takes time.

02 Apr 2024 21:33:30
I’ve worked at a number of companies where I was part of a team brought in to turn a company around. Culture and attitude are everything, people with poor character can be dragged along by a very good culture. However, if you have a toxic culture with leaders that have poor attitudes you’ve got to clear the decks. You can see a mile off there are players in that squad who have poor attitudes by their body language. There are players still at the club the manager tried to move on. There are players at the club other managers tried to move on. There is a singular consistent, the dressing room removes the manager. We need to break the cycle and clear a lot of senior players out.

02 Apr 2024 21:42:23
Ralf Rangnick brought one in, I'm not sure if he's still here. But he was the first one the club have ever hired.

Which just shows how far the club is behind the curve.

02 Apr 2024 22:22:17
Nail on head Rewz.

02 Apr 2024 22:36:43
Martinez, if one of the only likeable players we have but he is far turning into Phil Jones. Little lad throws himself in at the deep end all the time and his body is suffering.

Rushed back again. Just poor. Not for the 1st time.
Eth has been critical of the medical team already this season. But they can't be blamed on this one it's an unrelated injury. Didn't happen in Argentina training maybe he should have stayed there a bit longer.

02 Apr 2024 15:46:44


Shappy has posted a new article entitled, Concerns about EtH at Man Utd

03 Apr 2024 01:37:26
I asked a psychologist and they said you were talking nonsense. Stopped reading after that.

03 Apr 2024 10:53:46
They'd have been right reseven absolute hogwash.
I've employed enough of them corporately and visited enough of them personally to know that there is hardly an element of truth in that article and it was written by somebody that doesn't understand the basic principles of psychology.

02 Apr 2024 07:39:07
{Ed's Note - DLIB has posted a new article entitled, Sacking Erik ten Hag from Manchester United is not the answer

02 Apr 2024 09:35:38
How many times has he said in his interviews after a loss that 'the other team wanted it more'? If that's the case on so many occasions then he is not doing his job! Either he instills that eagerness in them or plays those who want it that much.

02 Apr 2024 14:49:18
Onana intl player
Lindelof intl captain
Maguire intl player
Varane retired won the lot
Dalot intl player
Cas intl captain
Mainoo intl player
Mctom intl player
Rash intl player
Bruno intl captain
Garnacho intl player
Rasmus intl player
Let me stress none of these are any good and it's nothing to do with their club manager that they are playing awful for their club.
Nothing to do with his set up or tactics. He motivates the players brilliantly it's not his fault we have list 33% of our league games
It's not his fault that we have a negative league goal difference since he came to the club (perhaps +3 over nearly 2 seasons) .
Nothing g to do with him that we finished bottom of our cl group for the 1st time ever.
Not his fault we won't make top 5 for cl next season
Not his fault for anything negative.
Eth needs more time to get us into the bottom half of the league. He needs more time to turn garnacho into Anthony. He needs more time to sign more duds.
He just needs time.

02 Apr 2024 15:36:06
Lolll Kennn you seriously don't like ETH and we get that and I was like that with ole but this guy ETH needs timee with quality players he didn't get his first choice players so he is struggling right now and the injuries hasn't helped either.

02 Apr 2024 15:36:56
Anyways being a internwtional player means nothing lolll. Even Kalvin Phillips plays for England sometimes and that says it all.

02 Apr 2024 16:30:00
I actually don't dislike him. Nor do I think he has failed in a lot respects. I just don't think he has shown any more than Ron Atkinson dave sexton ole or even Jose.
Do I think under eth we will continue to win the odd cup and have some good moments every season yes I do think that's exactly what we would see.
I don't see any hope of us getting much closer to the dominant teams consistently under him, no matter what the curmudgeon above him or playerwise that's the reason I want to change now.
I see traits in him that I don't like or identify with I don't see them aligning with the club and too many players, current or new.
If there were more green shoots I would be delighted but I don't see any reason at all to give him more time I honestly can't think of 1 redeeming feature of this team 2 years into his leadership.
In my opinion he lacks charisma and does little to endear himself to anybody externally and according to apparently is a difficult man to get along with and work with.
I agree Singh being an intl player doesn't guarantee that you are great but more often than not it means you are not useless.
Philips showed enough for city to buy him. A few on here would have wanted him. Its not easy to adapt to peps game I'm sure, but he will do better next season wherever he goes, decent player in the right set up.

02 Apr 2024 16:47:06
Ken Klopps gone and guardiola won't be here long. I am sure Eth cn deal with arteta and Totts manager as they r the next best and I think Eth cn beat those two teams.

02 Apr 2024 17:30:08
Its the measure now, being an international player. That's it, rest your case Ken ?

What was it Keane said to Jamie Redknapp about getting an international cap.

"Playing for your country doesn’t make you a good player. If you can trap a ball you can play for your country these days. It doesn’t make you a top player. " ? ? ?.

02 Apr 2024 17:32:44
Singh - what a ridiculios thing to say!
We are currrently clinging on to 6th position with a zero goal difference.
We are nowhere near City, Liverpool and Arsenal and you can add Villa to that at the moment.
Barry Fry could manage those 4 teams and still finish miles ahead of United.
It's a shambles, we are a laughing stocck, the butt of everyones jokes.
It's embarrassing toi watch now.

02 Apr 2024 19:56:42
Angel what's keano shouting there in your avatar?
TIME ????.

03 Apr 2024 06:54:32
Ah the arguments are getting weaker Mr. Tumble ? ?.

03 Apr 2024 10:56:06
We'll see angel we'll see.

01 Apr 2024 22:54:28
Outrageous theory: The squad and the manager aren’t good enough.

This constant debate about who to blame - the players or manager - overlooks the obvious. They both are.

There are better managerial options than ETH. Anybody that thinks he’s the third (or 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th or 7th) best manager in the world needs to give their head a wobble. Not going to list his deficiencies again, but to think he’s going to improve simply because he has a better structure above him is ludicrous.

I keep hearing about the managerial cycle (rinse repeat etc. ), but the reality is we haven’t had a truly great manager (or even an up and coming progressive manager) since SAF left. The appointments have been a strange bag of who’s available rather than who do we need. We could have stuck with any of them and we would not have won any more. The cycle is therefore a result of poor appointments. You don’t back a bad manager because of the false hope he will become good. Crazy thinking.

As a result of the poor structure and managerial cycle we have an unbalanced, overpaid dysfunctional squad constructed by owners only interested in dividend payments. Managed now by a manager that makes the same mistakes week after week.

Prior to ETH the managerial appointments where tasked with top four. This developed a squad culture that overlooked winning trophies. Left the players to focus on contracts, haircuts, cars and social media. There are players that are exceptions to this. But the on-pitch evidence suggests this to be the dominating culture.

INEOS have to bring the necessary changes. Ripping a bloated squad. Results based on the team - not individual player achievements. A coherent football strategy at all age levels. Replacing the manager with a footballing structure including a dedicated coach. Nurturing a winning and progressive mentality across the club.

Regardless of your viewpoint of ETH or the managerial cycle, the reality is the last 12-months have been nothing short of awful. A raft of unwanted records. Sometimes a person needs to be replaced in any type of business simply because the baggage they carry is too great. ETH is at that point now. INEOS need to draw a line in the sand and bring in a replacement that supports this future.

01 Apr 2024 23:23:20
Great Post BRD.
Nobody can put the blame at the door if eth alone.
In some aspects he has done a good job.
But it's a simple question of is he the best man for the next 3 / 5 years?
Based on everything I've seen it's a definite no.
Buy as we keep saying this with the best knowledge and information will decide his fate.
Sjr and team will know if he suits their ideal.

01 Apr 2024 23:44:43
Players are terrible. don't try. can't be bothered for half the games. Just shoot instead of creating for a team mate. Try Hollywood passes rather than the simple percentage play. Every. Flipping. Time. The club probably tells EtH who he has to pick (this is my guess) .

We have been ravaged by injuries like liverpool were last year. (Liverpool have a better squad to start with btw)

Club was up for sale. Sancho. Anthony. The club has run out of cash and been begging for loans.


But let's sack a manger who has had to deal with all this after being given just 18 months.


The only reason EtH should be sacked is if the new CEO and director football have had chance to assess him and decide they want a different path forward. I don't see how they have done that yet. So why not stick with him until they can make that assessment and meanwhile bring in some decent players and move some others on.

02 Apr 2024 07:56:47
Agreed DB, how can they properly assess him without being in the job.

02 Apr 2024 09:07:57
I don't know why we are looking at Ashworth for DOF. Ineos should just look on this site, they will find plenty of people qualified to judge a managers capability.

02 Apr 2024 09:22:32
He will be assessed continuously and a decision will be made.
This happens in every business in every walk of life.
Consultants will be hired if not already I assume to access all parts of the business. You need to understand how these things work.
If you think the decision rests on one head or opinion you'll be if they did he would be fine already I suspect.
The team will be furnished with all the reports when in place or possibly beforehand.
Dear oh dear there is some amount of naivety.
I can't be sure and definitely don't know the exact methods they will use for his appraisal but it will be done and I'm sure is being done in a timely fashion it's I. Quite sure ongoing.

02 Apr 2024 10:40:41
I see less improvement, tactics and style in 2 seasons under ten Hag than most of the clutch of strays we've had in the post-Fergie era. But the off-field stuff is at least getting addressed.

02 Apr 2024 13:33:22
A Celtic fan (we're honkin ATM) who enjoys the contributions made by you guys. I get the Eth debate, but if you get rid, on the assumption utd don't get 4th spot for CL, who managerially speaking is a realistic option? My gut tells me Ratcliffe knows what he's doing and as an outsider looking in, I think you should trust what he decides.

02 Apr 2024 13:58:47
Couldn't agree more CiP.

02 Apr 2024 16:21:15
BDR I agree they are both to blame. We play a big team (Liverpool) and yes we get a little rub of the green/ luck but the effort deserved the win and don't forget the 1st 35 mins we should have been out of sight.

Then we roll up at Brentford and they up their game, as they are playing a big team and yes they should have won the game hands down for the effort they applied. We did not apply ourselves, as we did against Liverpool and so paid the price of being played off the field.

All too often this season (and last) we do not turn up for the so called lesser teams.

We need maximum effort every game and that is down to the manager, to make sure the players totally understand what is required and also the players, they have to take responsibility for their own part.

01 Apr 2024 18:23:16
Ed001, how have you been buddy? I just wanted to ask you, what do you think of the prospective new set up at United of Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox? Do you see the SJR era helping to sort things out off and then ultimately on the pitch? Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - hiya mate, good thanks, I hope all is well with you too?

The new set up looks to be a huge leap forward. They are all much more professional than what was there before, so it should be a big improvement. Obviously you can never tell for sure how well people will mesh as a team until you put them together, but the individuals are much improved and at least football people.

The new regime should sort a lot of things out, though it will be how the club adapts to the new PSR that will ultimately decide things. It won't be as easy to waste money though, as budgets will be much tighter, which should help. Ashworth works better with less, imo. He is better at finding bargains than big spending, so it should give you a good chance of being more competitive at the top.}

01 Apr 2024 21:28:06
They definitely seem to be taking PSR seriously, I know they have started advertising for a senior financial controller with expertise in the new rules and regulations.

All this newly found professionalism seems a million miles away from the slap dash of recent times, but as Ed001 rightly say's they all have to gel. I am however optimistic they will.

02 Apr 2024 09:43:07
What could’ve been with competent, results driven owners….

01 Apr 2024 19:17:32
It seems Jason Wilcox has resigned his position with Southampton in an effort to push through his move to us.
Seemingly there was a compensation clause of 12 months salary in his contract, which we allegedly have offered to Southampton, which they have declined as they want more.
No doubt they will put him on gardening leave, looking on the bright side with all the prospective employees we will have on gardening leave if the football fails we could turn Old Trafford into quite an appealing tourist attraction.

01 Apr 2024 18:44:18
Kieran McKenna. Worth keeping tabs on for the future? Doing a decent job atm and no stranger to United. Discuss.

01 Apr 2024 19:54:49
It's not that long ago he was part of our 1st team management and he got a fair amount of dog's abuse on here for being supposedly useless! How times change.

01 Apr 2024 20:07:21
We had him, Ole, Phelan and Carrick together and they couldn’t get a tune out of this squad.

01 Apr 2024 20:35:44
He always struck me as pretty uninspiring at Utd. On matchday he just seemed to do a lot of staring without suggesting much and on the training ground we can assume it was pretty poor, given that the Ole reign is often cited as one where players pretty much did what they wanted.
Credit where it’s due though, as the main man at a club in that division he’s doing very well. He should stay right there!

01 Apr 2024 20:58:06
He’s working with a group of players who pay attention to him, follow his tactics and eagerly work to his system…we get none of that from our lot! So.

01 Apr 2024 23:27:49
He is doing a fantastic job there.
Always seemed like the 4th wheel of or tri-cycle when he was here bhind ole phelan and Carrick.
Delighted for him and I hope he secured back to back promotion.
I've always had a soft spot for Ipswich since the days of mariner, Mills, gates and muhren.
If he continues doing well he will attract a bigger job no doubt.

01 Apr 2024 13:54:18


DLIB has written an article entitled, Sacking EtH From Utd Is Not The Answer

01 Apr 2024 14:46:24
Agree DLIB. There is a consistent theme here, notwithstanding injuries, in terms of the playing staff and their commitment to the cause. Rashford isn't showing a dip in form in my view, last season was an exception for him. I don't believe him to be the world class player some seem to including himself. He has become a passenger and a liability the team cannot afford. Strolling around the pitch, failing to challenge anything approaching a 50/ 50 nor any aerial challenge just isn't on. He constantly exposes his LB by failing to offer any defence. Bruno has become a petulant embarrassment always looking for the worldy pass and giving up possession and then not defending. He is giving away silly free kicks in dangerous areas far too often. I will have to stop ranting but it's difficult to stomach some of the appalling performances we endure over and over again.
Like you, I think sacking ETH now will simply be a rinse and repeat exercise.
I shall now sit back with a tub of popcorn and watch the fight.

01 Apr 2024 15:05:48
ETH has had a hard time with injuries, recruitment and operating in Glazer Woodward leadership.

I like him but I’m far from convinced.

Game management has been a recurring issues.
Performances against smaller clubs has been consistently poor.

People management has been horrific ETH has devalued players with his management.

Injuries seem more than coincidental and indicate there’s an issue with training.

Recruitment hasn’t been perfect but Amrabat, Antony, Malacia, Weghorst and Martinez are all seem to be his players and one has been a success.

I’m like Zidane, De Zerbi, Amorin but don’t think they would do any better than ETH but have an intuitive belief that someone like Postecoglu or McKenna would be a better fit.

01 Apr 2024 15:09:05
Very good article DLIB, totally agree. I think we know what the follow up will be, from who and what will be said.
All opinions are valid, but I see absolutely no value in removing ETH to bring in another episode of exactly the same thing.

01 Apr 2024 15:11:16
Dlib I completely agree will the last few lines.
Let the ineos team get their appointments in place and let them decide what's best going forward. You are right they are appointing experts to make these decisions. We have to trust their judgement. We all wanted a new footballing structure. Now we have one incoming. They are the best people to decide
A great statement you made, and the last few lines are really well written imo, I don't agree on any of the eth stuff as you know but great that you are calling for support for the new appointees incoming.

01 Apr 2024 15:41:34
Fizz - Nobody has been more critical of Rashford than me and whilst I don’t think he’s anywhere near World Class he did score 30 goals in all competitions last season. If you look around Europe’s top leagues there isn’t that many players capable of scoring 30 plus goals. Haaland, Kane, Mbappe, Salah, Lewanddoski, Martinez, Oshimen immediately spring to mind but beyond the obvious, not many players are capable of hitting those numbers and if you take into consideration Rashford predominantly plays on the wing that number is whittled down even further.

Im not defending Rashford, but I can kind of understand why EtH has persisted with him because he’s more than capable and I’m assuming EtH has been waiting for him to burst into form. Let’s not forget Sancho has been expelled, Antony has been just as bad and Ahmed injured for most of the season. EtH’s options have been limited. The loss of Shaw hasn’t helped either and the new, more aggressive style doesn’t suit him.

I think if EtH had put another body in midfield, sat a touch deeper, employed more of a mid block and allowed Rashford to operate higher, in the left side half spaces we’d have seen a much better Rashford.

In my opinion this team just cannot accommodate Rashford’s poor pressing, Bruno’s seemingly free role and lack of positional discipline and Mctominay in this more advanced midfield role making continual runs ahead of the ball into the box.

Unfortunately we just don’t have the balance in the squad. I’m surprised EtH hasn’t used Amrabat more in midfield instead of Mctominay and deployed Mainoo more as a No8 in the absence of Casemiro. He’s much better on the ball and more positionally disciplined than Mctominay. Ill accept he hasn’t been great however a lot of his games have been at LB, he’s also been injured, although I think we’ve seen glimpses of what he can do with decent games against Chelsea and Liverpool this season.

I think EtH has got the structure of the team wrong this season and he just hasn’t been able to cope with injuries to key players but I don’t think that means he should be sacked. I think he should be afforded a bit more time to put things right.

IWOTB - Cheers pal

Tumble - As you know I wanted a full sale but now Ineos are in charge I will support what they are trying to do. No point in banging that drum anymore.

My concern is that the new CEO doesn’t arrive until the summer and the DoF is not yet in place.

My preference would be to get these people in place first, give them
time to assess the Club and then make a decision about the manager.

Like I said I’m pretty sure that if Martinez, Varane, Shaw and Casemiro had been able to play the majority of games together along with Mainoo, Rashford, Bruno and Hoijljnd we’d have made top 4 comfortably. Of course we should be able to cope better with injuries but long term injuries to key players will adversely affect most Clubs. Even City have struggled when they lose Rodri for a few games.

01 Apr 2024 15:52:55
Martinez, Shaw, Varane and Casemiro are never all going to stay fit.

01 Apr 2024 16:05:20
very good article Dlib. agree with everything you said.

01 Apr 2024 16:26:11
Great article DLIB

Yes Ken, 100 percent, trust the people when they ARE in place. but they aren't yet and won't be for months. Meaning they won't be able to properly assess ETH.

So, in agreement, get the football structure in place, and let them judge ETH fairly.

01 Apr 2024 16:35:22
Porsche - I accept that mate and it’s a big problem, but to replace them with players of an equal standard will be expensive. I’d personally keep them all and be looking to offload the likes of Maguire, Lindelof and Mctominay before Casemiro and Varane. Could we not offer Varane a one year extension on the same terms? He’s only 30 and if he’s stays fit and plays well, offer the same next year as well. I’m sure under SAF older players were on rolling one year contracts. We could look to sign a younger CB, possibly Tobido and integrate him into the team . I still think a Varane/ Martinez CB pairing is one of the best in the league.

Ed001 can probably put me straight, but when Liverpool were at their best Allison, VVD, Robertson, Trent, Fabinho, Salah, Mane and Firminho all seemed to be fit and play the majority of the games. I think it’s far to say they lacked a bit of squad depth, which is to be expected when you don’t have the finances on offer at City, but they struggled on occasions when they suffered long term injuries to key players.

Its been a bad season ravaged by long term injuries to some of our key players, I’d say give him another season, let Ineos put the structure in place and let the experts make the decision once they’ve had time to assess the situation. Anyway I’ve said enough, enjoy the rest of the bank holiday guys!

01 Apr 2024 17:08:05
Whilst I am reticent about sacking or replacing ten hag there are 2 things I look at.

1 ed002 has said a conversation needs to happen will ten hag even want to work in the new set up, undoubtedly it looks like the managers role will be scaled back to focus on coaching with less say over transfers, would ten hag be happy working under whatever set up this is?

2. Let's say you keep ten hag you make all the changes new dog new technical directors all the new back room staff, you make your desired player changes along with ten hag in the summer. These transfers should be heard towards a longer term view which is good. You start the season and there's no improvement 3 months in were still having games like Fulham and Brentford and it looks like another difficult season your then forced to make a change and although decisions have been made with longer term ideas it's a wasted 5 months (including preseason) .

Yes the same could happen with a new manager but a new manager having a difficult first few months is easier to explain and doesn't lead to a reset of coaching staff and having to find a new manager at a much more difficult time.

For me I make the change based on both of these I think even if ten hag did agree to the new set up he wouldn't necessarily be happy with it, and having a new manager gives that set up a little more time to get adjusted and have their own man.

There also seems to be a number of players who aren't exactly happy with ten hag and while I expect the majority of these to leave, ten hag seems to have issues with favouritism and conflict resolution.

01 Apr 2024 18:01:45
Ken

I think where you think some EtH inners differ is exactly where we actually agree.

I want the new competent manager structure to make the decisions, why else bother bringing them in? I just don't trust that the management structure is in place yet, so I question who is making the decisions. The new CEO is not in place yet I believe, but will be shortly. Ashworth is obviously not yet part if the decision.

I don't want EtH hounded out by the press. I would rather the management team was in place and then they start to make some of these big decisions. After the year of injuries I am happy to give more time and feel far more frustration towards the players than EtH. But EtH has also made some questionable decisions, like playing rashford and bruno almost every minute of every game.

Good article DLIB.

01 Apr 2024 21:40:29
I have said for some time ETH needed to show he has what it takes. It’s an audition for Ratcliffe and ETH is failing it. If he has a great plan, wants to stay and Ratcliffe buys it, then he will be here next season but that plan is not in front of us. However, the Brentford game was an utter shambles in terms of teamwork and organisation, ETH should have to explain that to his bosses. If after nearly two years, a managers team in any type of business fails and continues to fail that badly it would put anyones position in jeopardy.

After the Liverpool game we should have been on a high, come out organised, ready tactically, yet it was a shambles. We were not prepared and that is the managers job, had nearly two years to set a team up and we were not prepared, there can be no excuses for that utter shambles.
That finally made me feel a change was needed. I suspect ETH will not fancy being a coach rather than the manager, he took the role on that basis and may resign let alone get sacked. It is clear change in role parameters is coming. We cannot lurch from one design to another with some shouting give x more time, because none of us know whether giving him more time will work, we are all guessing, just basing those calls on SAF, whilst ignoring Sexton and Atkinson examples.

The question is where we are going, where is ETH showing the supporters and bosses what a great future we have with him showing what he is doing is going to give us all what we want? We just see performances like Brentford and similar without any semblance of design, plan or structure so we are bound to crack.

I can take losing, but Brentford showed a lack of planning, tactical set up and poor selection, that’s down to the manager.