Manchester United discussion 2

10 Apr 2024 12:16:25
So ETH was called out about his midfield approach whilst at Ajax. Ruud Gullit -

“The annoying part about Ajax”, the legendary midfielder began to explain.

“Especially in transition, I’ve seen it against Bayern Munich, I’ve already seen it many times before, at the moment they’re taking a lot of risks.

“Especially in midfield and all of a sudden you get ridiculous counters. If it gets intercepted, they can just run all the way through.

11 Apr 2024 22:08:59
Ruud Gullit. Tactical genius.

09 Apr 2024 21:14:19
Imagine the difference a player like Musiala would make in place of Bruno.
SJR has made it known he wants to develop youth and find the next Mbappe but players like Musiala and Florian Wirtz should be what we're targeting under the new management.

11 Apr 2024 14:52:39
We could target them but we wouldn't get them.

09 Apr 2024 14:10:53
Murtough stepping down. that's another one gone!

09 Apr 2024 15:56:30
I'm not sure Murtough did a bad job. Obviously there are better qualified people, but he started several good things at the club during his time. There was talk of him maybe staying in some capacity, but that almost certainly meant a demotion.

I wish him well with the rest of his career and hope the new people can take us back to where we want to be.

09 Apr 2024 20:50:16
Just think he was out of his depth in that role shappy. I’m sure he did some great things at the club but I think he fell short as DOF. Wish him the best for the future but glad to see we are making the changes required!

10 Apr 2024 12:30:56
This is the guy who presided over some of the worse transfers in football history, handed out some of the most ridiculous contracts imaginable and left a mish mash of a squad not fit for purpose.

Surely we have to say he was a complete disaster.

Or am I missing something?

10 Apr 2024 17:28:53
Don't get me wrong I don't think Murtough is the right man and I agree he's been over promoted.

However, he has also had to work within a structure that doesn't support people to do their job to the best of their ability.

He was one of the people instrumental in starting the revamp of the academy, for which we are reaping the rewards. Although I appreciate that wasn't just him and Nick Cox has done a phenomenal job.

He also helped bring about the long overdue women's team.

He was also key looking to bring in a data analytics department to drag the club forward.

For someone who was over promoted and restricted in what they could do, along with given no real support I don't think he's done an awful job.

He isn't one of the best in the industry in that role and as such we need to look to hire the leading people if we want to be leaders. For that reason alone Murtough had to be replaced. But that doesn't mean he did an awful job.

10 Apr 2024 19:01:34
OK shappy, he completely failed at the core responsibilities of his job but he did a few pretty things around the edges so we'll give him a pass?

Don't be daft!

11 Apr 2024 15:42:45
No where have I said to give him a pass. In fact I've said he's been rightfully replaced as he has been over promoted into a position he doesn't have the ability to do to the level we need.

What I'm saying is given that he doesn't have the required experience or expertise, as well as he was working within a structure that didn't support him and in fact most likely hindered him, that given that context I don't think he completely messed it up, and in fact still managed to do some good things.

Imagine you asked an 8 year old to cook a three course meal, then turned the gas off so the stove wouldn't work, and gave them odd ingredients to use. They will not be able to cook a great meal, but if they made something edible you'd have to say that they did a decent job in the circumstances and base don their lack of expertise.

That's where Murtough fits in my opinion. In a role he should never have been in, with zero support, under difficult circumstances he was always set up to fail. I just think he treaded water and managed to do a few good things. Which given the context means he didn't completely fail.

11 Apr 2024 18:54:56
Shappy, whether he should or shouldn't have been there is irrelevant. He was and he did an awful job which is why Utds squad is a complete mess.

Lots of people do a great job in difficult circumstances. He didn't.

09 Apr 2024 12:21:41
Hi Ed002, quick question if you don't mind, and i understand if you don't want to answer, have INEOS decided what to do with ETH? because if they are going to wait till the summer it looks like a bit of a gamble in regards to getting the new/ right coach in place quickly?

Many thanks.

{Ed002's Note - It is not an Ineos decision - but I expect him to leave in the summer.}

09 Apr 2024 12:35:25
Ed002

Are Nagelsman and Motta realistic options or am I reading more gumpf?

{Ed002's Note - Julian Nagelsmann (C) Contracted until the Euros are finished in the summer - talented. May have been a shrewd choice for Liverpool and will have the support of Klopp but has expressed concern that the transfer approach at Liverpool may not suit him - so they can be discounted. A return to Bayern Munich seems impossible. Barcelona and Manchester United have both considered him an option and discounted him - but could return if preferred options are not available. Wildcard would be Chelsea. Wants to coach in England. Newcastle perhaps another wildcard but they have a preferred option. Another option will be another year with Germany - and then Klopp takes over. Perhaps two years and a World Cup chance would suit JN - but probably not Klopp. No interest in the Borussia Dortmund job.

Thiago Motta (C) MIlan and Juventus are showing some interest in taking Motta in the summer as his coaching career has been picking up and he is well thought of. Will perhaps be considered by former club Barcelona, but they certainly have preferred choices but could look to integrate him in to the larger coaching set up they are planning. I expect Juventus to win out. }

09 Apr 2024 13:02:35
Cheers Ed002

So it's possibly a straight choice between Potter and De Zerbi.

I'm not buying into the idea that SJR considers Southgate to be a legit option. I know the mooted preference is to bring in a British manager/ coach, but I don't see that factor being such a paramount decider over ability and CV.

{Ed002's Note - They would be the preferred options at this time - and he was impressed by Potter previously and Southgate has been of past interest to the club. Nagelsmann could be another option.}

09 Apr 2024 13:52:56
Thanks for the reply Ed.

08 Apr 2024 22:58:47
Just a quick one eds, do ye think potter or de zerbi could work at united? Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Maybe.}

09 Apr 2024 10:00:01
We will have to wait and see what they decide to do with EtH and then the structure they want to put in place. If it is the old school manager (which I don't think is the direction) then it will be a certain type who both of these do not fit. If we are looking towards the continental head coach style then it will take away a lot of the peripheral responsibilites and I think that you can take a risk on these type of coaches.
We are a few years away from competing for the league so we need to look at the route that Arsenal made with Alonso and maybe take a punt.

09 Apr 2024 11:46:03
Brad, if they are going down a head coach route then I don't think hiring someone like Potter or De Zerbi is as big a risk as hiring a manager who expects and is used to having more control and greater responsibility.

Hiring someone who expects to have a bigger role then they will get is the biggest risk as it will only lead to conflict.

If the next manager is going to be more of a head coach and have less responsibilities beyond the training ground then it makes much more sense to hire someone who is happy in that sort of role, and who has excelled in it previously.

08 Apr 2024 18:00:35
Wonder if Rashford is playing himself out of the England squad for the euros?

08 Apr 2024 18:14:00
The pelters I got a few months ago for suggesting mainoo would be in and rashford out was great craic.
I don't think he should be selected and as I thought a few months ago I don't think he will be but its a close call and he might rely on someone being injured.
Bellingham and foden play in the same position got their clubs.
I think foden will be moved wide for England it's not alien to him.
Cf kane Watkins toney maybe only 2.
Rw. Saka palmer
Lw grealish foden
He may opt to take just 2 strikers and a 3rd lw. I would bring Gordon but suspect he might squeeze rashford in .
It depends on if he walks around the England camp with a face like a smacked arse like he does at united if he does then there is no point having him.

08 Apr 2024 19:11:19
He’s been in every squad he’s been fit for for a very long time, I’m pretty sure he will go to the euros, doubt he will start though.

08 Apr 2024 20:43:51
Maybe him and mount not going would be a good thing for next season. can't see the club selling rash.

08 Apr 2024 21:41:36
Mount not even in the picture that's a given.
He has been gds in every intl squad he does offer something different for a tournament.
I think foden will start on the left
Grealish should go as no 2 but rash can cover all 3 positions he might find himself going as 3rd choice lw 3rd choice rw and 3rd choice striker. Can give good impact from the bench and a threat in behind in the last 20 mins.

08 Apr 2024 22:00:41
Rashford at the Euros? Is that a joke?

What would be the point? He's bloody useless and there are plenty of other options.

09 Apr 2024 11:57:32
I think Saka, and Foden are nailed on. While it would be madness not to take Palmer given his form this season.

That leaves Rashford, Sterling, Grealish, Gordon and Bowen fighting it out for the fourth wide position.

On current form it should be Gordon with Bowen running him close.

Sterling I think is almost certainly out of the running. Grealish might get in if Southgate decides he needs more experience as Palmer and Gordon lack experience and while Saka and Foden have played a lot of football, neither are experienced older heads.

Rashford in my opinion only gets selected if there is an issue with the striker options and Southgate wants to take someone who can also cover centrally.

If Kane is injured or carry a knock for example. Or if Watkins or Toney aren't available.

Rashford could also maybe sneak in as that 3rd choice striker if Southgate wants to take one. Although personally I'd expect him to take 6 forwards, and a couple of attacking midfielders who can also play wide.

Kane, Saka, Foden, Palmer, Gordon and Watkins most likely. Along with Maddison and Bellingham as attacking midfielders both of which can play wide right or left.

Forward players are more reliant on confidence so you want to be able to give minutes to all of them during the tournament in case you need them. You don't want to have to be starting someone like Rashford in a Semi-final without him kicking a ball all tournament. So it makes more sense to not take an extra forward, but to take an extra midfielder or defender. I'd take an extra defender, especially with Shaw injured currently and touch and go as to whether he'd be fit, and Chilwells injuries and iffy form this season, we could probably do with taking Colwill who can cover LB if needed, maybe Trippier sneaks in for one last squad due to him being able to cover LB.

08 Apr 2024 10:08:31
Well, what to make of yesterday, another game another 20+ shots against, whether it's Liverpool or Brentford shots rain down on us at will. Does Eth coach this, he surely sees it on the touch line and it continues. Do the players just do what they think and ignore eth? I've no idea what we are supposed to be doing, we go from clueless no idea how to break a team down or can't create to coming alive and creating a tonne and back again, such a weird team. We've lost 7 points in the last 3 games from winning positions, there appears to be no in game management, if ten hag isn't saying it why aren't experienced players or Casemiro or captain Bruno saying lads let's just sit in now keep it compact and see the game out? Why are the kids in our team consistently the best players with seemingly more drive and will and maturity? I don't see any plan or style or process whatever eth was talking about and regardless of winning an fa cup or finishing in CL spots, that lack of identity is a massive worry to me and to make matters worse I don't really see anyone out there to replace ten hag effectively. Hopefully Kambwala can save us a transfer in the summer and the likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Scotty, Rashford, Antony can fetch us a few quid and add a few more that are actually good enough for this club. I think a big investigation needs to happen into our medical/ physio departments, why are players relentlessly injured or recurring injuries, are they that fragile. Anyway at least never a dull moment with us on pitch atm and hopefully that 2 points costs them the title but again another big summer ahead.

08 Apr 2024 10:15:16
I hope and pray eth will be gone in the summer. Our worst epl season ever following our worst cl campaign ever.
He was proud of our performance yesterday. He should have been ashamed.

08 Apr 2024 10:56:17
On the commentary G Neville talked about why Utd are vulnerable to so many shots. If I understood correctly its because the players are instructed to man mark rather than mark the space.

The midfielders follow their men and are then dragged out of position ahead of the ball leaving space in front of the defence.

The issue is then compounded by Bruno running upthe pitch in a pointless one man press.

So, it seems to me that the problem is entirely of ten haags making with the instructions he is giving.

Anyone with more football knowledge than me able to confirm or correct this?

08 Apr 2024 11:17:18
Tumble

We have finished 6th a few times and even 7th in the pl. not sure where you are getting that from. i think we have finished 6th 3 times last 6/ 7 years. We finished 7th after winning the league previous year with moyes. i remember that.

08 Apr 2024 11:31:06
We have never won less games and lost more
Ahmad back to teasing your friends because we drew a game.

08 Apr 2024 11:45:32
If liverpool lose the league by a point or 2, its a great result and delighted. Many had had us getting murdered so most can't moan about a draw.

Can't have it both ways.

08 Apr 2024 11:51:46
Sad days when we consider a draw at home to Liverpool as a good result.

08 Apr 2024 12:01:36
Ken

Games won statement not true whatsoever and 7 to go and will turn out to be totally false. We finished 3rd in 2019 winning 18 games, we have won 15 so far this year. Our issue is not games won but lack of draws this year or dropping points from winning positions late in games.

We had 58 points 2 years ago. if we lose one more game that statement is correct but lost 12 under olie and ragnick.

If you going to talk stats, eth winningest coach after guardiola in all competitions last 2 years. Guardiola 75 wins, Eth 62 klop 57 and we have had a mare this season. saw that stat this morning.

I know you want eth gone but don't make up stuff. everyone is welcome to go look it up.

08 Apr 2024 12:35:35
Ahmad have we ever lost more than 12 games?
So we have never lost more than this season. Fact. Not made up just a fact.
We have never won less than 18 so we are behind that so never won less than this year so far.
Luton have more goals than us. Never before has a team in the relegation zone scored less than us with 7 games to go.

08 Apr 2024 13:12:07
#more than us.

08 Apr 2024 13:39:03
Im Just reading that again Ahmad
You say
' the issue is not lack of wins but lack of draws'
Interesting thought that.
We are winning enough but not drawing enough 🤣🤣🤣🤣 yes that's one right out of ole's or eth's mental book of excuses.

08 Apr 2024 14:26:20
Ken

We only won 16 league games two years ago. you making up your own stats as you go or what.

We have seven games left and 15 wins. We have achieved 20 league wins 4 times since Fergie retired. Eth being one of them last year with 23 wins.

If he wins 5 of the next seven first manager since Fergie to have back to back 20 wins. Not liking the guy and spoofing are different things.

08 Apr 2024 15:24:01
Another one of your posts sponsored by the word 'if' ahmad.
We have never lost more than 12 and we have lost 12 I would wager heavily that we will lose another game this season but it will be our joint worst season for losses regardless.
I thought 18 was our lowest amount of wins if its 16 I stand corrected and we are still short of that 16 this season.
No spoofing .
You are right we are getting worse and continuing to dis-improve.
Still we are in with a shout of that 6th spot let's hope we don't let it slip.
For every positive stat you give about something there is an equally damning one (without an if) .
You can do it with most things in life.
We will finish this season probably 18 points worse off year on year.
Passed out by teams like villa and spurs and Liverpool.
We won't be in cl next season which has consequences after our worst ever cl campaign this season.
A cup win would be a nice way to finish off a rotten season.

08 Apr 2024 08:01:06
I know it has been a disappointing season so far but many positive things to look forward to. Mainoo and garnacho who are now first 11 and the kid kambala was immense yesterday and a lot of noise that crop of young guys from the academy who might be first teamers in the future.

On paper an easier run of games until the arsenal fixture and 7 games to go, a winning streak leading into the arsenal fixture might make that game a massive fixture for both sides and hopefully an cup final which i fancy us who ever the opposition if we have shaw and martinez back.

Villa and spurs and going to find wins difficult imo given their run of fixtures and will drop many points but we need wins and a bunch of them.

08 Apr 2024 08:50:57
Those kids certainly put Rashfords (lack of) effort into perspective.

08 Apr 2024 10:06:17
Ahmad we have a chance of European football in the europa league.
If we can fight off west ham and Newcastle for that 6th spot.
Our worst ever epl performance.

08 Apr 2024 10:10:14
Bournemouth away is a fixture we will struggle especially given the fact they totally outplayed us at OT earlier in the season.

08 Apr 2024 11:18:16
Ken

We have finished 7th in the epl before.

08 Apr 2024 11:55:57
Hopefully Rashford is fit for the FA Cup final. Our best player by far guided by a master tactician.

08 Apr 2024 12:38:47
Keefy let's get to the cup final 1st.
Coventry should be a cakewalk but we have seen cup shocks many a time.
I think we will have too much for them and our players have a lot more experience so I'd be 95% positive but if any team can clinch a defeat when victory looks likely we are probably that team.

08 Apr 2024 22:09:58
Yeah. I was on the if’s train then. And of course I was joking!

07 Apr 2024 18:56:18
Based on what we just saw, does Amrabat go or stay?

07 Apr 2024 19:55:44
Sure he was never here.

07 Apr 2024 20:59:52
Go and not just based on one match.

07 Apr 2024 19:19:22
Go, he isn't good enough and he isn't worth the money spending on to bring in a at best squad player.

07 Apr 2024 19:19:22
Go, he isn't good enough and he isn't worth the money spending on to bring in a at best squad player.

07 Apr 2024 13:57:19
I really wanted ETH to be successful, he is well respected by Pep, did well at Ajax, it felt like a new beginning. Last year was encouraging, albeit we folded badly several times. But a cup, a final, and Champions League qualification was a decent return for season 1.

However, instead of building on that, we made many mis steps, driven primarily by the incompetence of the people running the club.

1. Onano took a long time to settle and I still think we concede goals that DDG would have saved. It was time for a new keeper but Onana was a poor signing.

2. We needed a proven goalscorer to lead the line, but signed a raw kid. I like Hojlund, he may become a great player but he wasn't what we needed. Good signing, wrong timing.

3. We signed Mount, and nobody seems to know why. Yes he has been injured but it seemed a very strange signing at the time.

That's £179M right there. Would Spurs have sold Kane to us for £120M?

It's plain ridiculous that we held on to players we don't want or need, and didn't sign what we did need.

Back to ETH. A lot of issues are not his fault, but I don't see a plan, a style, or players improving. He talks about a process, I have no idea what that is.

There are chinks of light, Mainoo Garnacho, Hojlund, Dalot, but beyond that? Cas looks done, Martinez is permanently injured, our Captain contributes little nowadays, Antony ranks right up there with the biggest robbery in history, ans Rashfords attitude is appalling.

I never wanted Conte but that sort of character is what is needed right now, take no prisoners, have the right attitude or get out. I fear ETH us now out of his depth and doesn't know what to do next.

07 Apr 2024 14:34:29
Jesus, Rashford starts today.

07 Apr 2024 14:52:08
Agree with most of that AJH.
There are reasons we can't just dump players and pay them off. The effect that has on the books would have taken us into trouble with the profitability rules.
Rest is bang on imo.

07 Apr 2024 19:03:19
We had that character in Mourinho AJH, and it ended badly. Conte would be a disaster.

Now under the new football regime, perhaps things would be different, but not for me.

07 Apr 2024 19:57:09
Must be watching a different onana AJH, been superb over the last few months. Are we forgetting the countless mistakes De Gea was making toward the end of his career.

Mount hasn't even started to get going yet. He's a good player that adds to the squad. Give him a bit of time.

Not for us to know ETHs process.

07 Apr 2024 20:53:17
Correct angel but I also think he is keeping it a secret from the players.

08 Apr 2024 09:56:24
I watched us act like a mid table team playing away at Anfield yesterday, that was our mentality and Keane rightly called ETH out on it. Liverpool had a plan, a pattern you could see, front to back whilst we floundered. ETH was positive afterwards, yet he made strange decisions, yet again, what planet was he on to put Rashford in? He took off Garnacho and when Bruno missed a tackle the ended up with the penalty. Garnacho and Antony were our out balls yet he cancelled one and put Bruno on the left wing.
ETH is suddenly talking everything up, knows he is in trouble, yet we had a small club mentality yesterday, seemingly happy just to disturb their title challenge. Not good enough for me. Yes enjoyed not losing to a big team but that what it has come to under ETH. AJH I think ETH is a bit lost not understanding where he is.

08 Apr 2024 11:03:38
He's a dead man walking. He knows he is out if a job come the summer.
Despite him being ex bayern he was not under consideration for them.
Ajax have been offering their job astound and he is not high up on their list for a return and never under consideration for Barcelona.
No top club will want him.
I hope he picks up a good job. I'd like to see him get another chance at a smaller club to see if he can learn from his poor spell at united.
I'll wish him well when he leaves in the summer.

08 Apr 2024 11:24:52
Ken

Said it on the live chat. he is nowhere near dead man walking and I know what ed002 has said. Its not even in those realms and hate to bust your bubble.

It comes from very high up the chain of people at the club and contrary to you lot having a melt down after every bad result, that's not what the focus is atm it depends on a few things post season end and discussions with eth first and foremost and if he is going to be stubborn about it or give some way.