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06 Oct 2018 09:45:42

I have just watched Gary Neville's interview on Sky from last night and he is spot on. There is a bigger problem in the club than the manager and another sacking followed by an appointment of another manager solves little. It looks on the outside like the Glazers are supporting their man Woodward after all he has done for them financially but there is no such support for the manager. It looks from a fan perspective the club strategy is financial. Therefore, today, I hope there is defiance at Woodward and the Glazers,



I think Jose looks tired, I think he has suffered since his No2 left, the no2 is often the link to the players and gives balance and I think that may have hurt him. For me our manager has been undermined by above and that can be debilitating so I agree with Neville on that as well.



Neville is totally correct about the tail wagging the dog, the dressing room controlling the club and asking where is the leadership. It is exactly what, sadly very few of us, can see and have said on here. Those shiny media players who get plenty of clicks on social media in the Far East ensuring a new sponsor will come along and plonk some cash in the kitty, can't disturb that can we? When SAF stepped down the only leader in the club stepped down.



One point in last nights comments interested me was Neville saying there was an eve of the season briefing about there being no need for a centre half and who made that decision. I mentioned this as a rumour a few weeks ago from Red Issue and Ed002 I believe, said Woodward would lose his job if true, yet he hasn't. Neville saying it last night is interesting and if Woodward stays, decides Mourinho's fate, then it shows the importance of finance at the club above that of the football. This club will not be a world leader whilst the Glazers own it or Woodward runs it. Time for big changes at the very top.

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06 Oct 2018 10:04:01

Gr8888 post Redman.

06 Oct 2018 11:51:47

Red Man, I will happily admit that I have criticised people for 'I told you so posts' - so I have no complaints when I get the same back. But I have been saying this for ages - since Moyes was sacked in fact - but I am absolutely positive that there are far bigger issues at United than just the manager (s) .



I don't necessarily agree that funds haven't been made available because they have, certainly in recent years. But there is also a strong arguement that had those funds been made available sooner then we wouldn't have fallen so far behind in the first place.



We seem to have changed tact recently in that we won't spend on older players which I assume is due to sell on value etc. I actually agree with this policy - but it has come far too late. Look at the millions and millions wasted on Schweinsteiger and Zlatan, for example.



But the above issues seem minor compared to the 'bigger picture'. The whole club needs a big shake up, from top to bottom. There is no clear strategy (other than maximising income), no clear direction and most glaringly no leadership. It seems as though everyone is pulling in different directions, all with different agendas and all with different goals. In fact, the only common goal is self interest.



Obviously this is only my opinion, and to be honest I have no other grounds to make them other than my own percerption but on the face of it the whole lot looks like a complete shambles.



Worst of all, nobody at the club even seems that bothered about it. They don't seem at all bothered that the image of the club is quickly being eroded away, as long as the commercial money keeps rolling in.



There is a theory that there is no such thing as bad publicity - and it looks to me like Manchester United - or the owner - buy into that theory.

06 Oct 2018 13:01:28

Great posts redman and betty .

Everybody knows its not pretty at the moment nor has it been for some time. There are many reasons we can see and many more that we as supporters don't see.

Im looking forward to the match today and i hope that we get the 3 points.

06 Oct 2018 17:27:09
What I found very interesting from the G Neville interview was that he supported Jose and did not think he should be sacked.

It has been said many times that Jose has spent a lot of money, but I would love to know whether the players that have been bought are his first choice, second choice or fourth. The fact of the matter is he wanted Peresic to balance the squad last season and did not get him, he identified players he wanted this season and did not get them.

I have to be balanced and say woody made the right choice in not selling Martial in my opinion. I would loan him out if I had to, but not sell him. I could see it being KDB part two.

From everything I have seen I suspect that woody is the problem, but I would not get rid of him. In terms of financial revenue he is brilliant for the club. I would just have him nowhere near footballing decisions, he can set the budget for transfers and wages, he can issue a player profile if he needs to, but there is where it should end. If they want input on players, ask sir Alex, ask sir bobby, not a bean counter.

Pleases please please bring in a DOF ASAP. Put in place a strategy, and even if it takes 2-3 years to bear fruit get on with it, as long as we see tangible progression and improvement the fans of this club will support the club. But if the current dross continues, the same infighting and lack of direction and fans may start to lose interest. 5years and still going backwards, not ideal.

05 Oct 2018 13:52:52
Long time reader, first time poster. As of late there really are only 3 conversations going on, Are the players good enough? Is the manager good enough? Is the club management good enough?
You could form a reasoned argument for each, but in the end it’s probably a little of each. The problems all really started when the owners stupidly (IMHO) let David Gill go at the same time as Sir Alex. It was then compounded by a lot of experienced backroom staff being swapped out for Moyes choices, so effectively from day one post Fergie you had a manager with no experience at the Utd level, combined with backroom staff who had the same problem and a club management team who knew very little about football. The perfect recipe for disaster. Sadly for Van Gaal, he never stood a chance as two of the three problems remained after Moyes departure. It was always going to be an uphill struggle for him.
The owners of the club appointed Woodward who doesn’t really know much about football, but unfortunately it’s a big part of his job. It shouldn’t matter if Utd have to pay extra when they come knocking, all the top clubs do, we’re no different. If he sees there is no value in the market, so what, if your car breaks down because it needs a new part, you have to buy that part, no matter what the price. Whether he backs a manager in the market is a different thing. What he might say publicly is probably very different to what goes on behind the scenes. Would you give £200 million to a manager to spend who’s signings to date have been average at best when he only has a year or so left on his contract. Probably not! Despite all this he has to realise that in the long term, the equation has to be, success on the pitch = success off the pitch. Simple as that.
The manager ultimately has been historically very successful (and loud) but like everything in life, there is no guarantee that it will continue forever. Just like every musician, actor, director etc. At some point they put out a rubbish film, album. In football, particularly, what happened yesterday is irrelevant as the whole cycle starts again after each match, so judging someone by his historical achievements when his present form is foolish. What is obvious is that currently, he has lost some of the dressing room, which means he might as well have lost all of it if the players are divided.
I’ve not mentioned the players, because to be honest, the players come and go, yes they have too much power these days, but it’s the same at every club and it has been for a long time. It’s more about how the players are handled these days to get the best out of them. A huge chunk of our squad were on international duty at the world cup, which to my mind means if they are one of the best 30 or so players of their nationalities, they’re good enough to play for Utd. Not only that, it should mean that we should be able to comfortably beat lower level teams.
The answer would appear to be one that will take years to turn round, hence the need for a Director of Football. It would also be a project that Mourinho would not see through. The way I see it is that IF a DOF is being appointed and IF Mourinho only has 1 season at most left on his contract and IF Woodward (who will still hold the purse strings after the DOF is appointed) doesn’t trust Mourinho’s choices for the club (as a business and a team) and IF the dressing room is indeed, divided, then surely, the sooner a manager can be put in place to kick start (and possibly see through) the changes required, the better. This is regardless of player coming and goings which have always happened and will always happen.

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05 Oct 2018 14:39:44
Welcome, Best. Good post, mate. Have to disagree on LVG, tho. There was only one thing responsible for him failing - mind-numbingly, sterile football from the dark ages.

05 Oct 2018 18:42:42
Thanks Noucamp99. I think I was probably just trying to be kind to an old man, but yep, you're right. His football was dire.

06 Oct 2018 14:36:55
Welcome BB. Good post.
Im not sure what will happen but one thing for sure is that there are several players here not good enough to play for us some of them have not got the right ability and some have not got the right character imo.

04 Oct 2018 16:41:19

Just to get away from the daily grind of posts something a bit different. If you could sell any 3 players and bring any 3 in who would you pick?



I'd sell Fellaini, Pogba and Sanchez and buy Toby, Neves and Pulisic.

{Ed004's Note - De Ligt, Frenkie De Jong, Ousmane Dembele with Jones, Darmian and Fellaini out. There are definitely a few players who should go before Pogba}

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04 Oct 2018 18:53:42

Toby in, Jones out

Zaha in, Mata out

Casemiro in, Fellaini out.

04 Oct 2018 19:30:50

Smalling Sanchez Jones out

Maguire Kante Koulibally in.

04 Oct 2018 20:05:54

matic > Kante

Lukaku > Kane

smalling > Ramos.

04 Oct 2018 20:27:16

Good choices Ed4. I just think pogba's too much trouble an wants to go anyway. If we could part ex for dembele would be good.

04 Oct 2018 21:10:29

Jones, Fellaini and Valencia out (can I add Smalling, Darmian, Young and Mata too) .



De Ligt/ Varane, Mbappe, Meunièr.

04 Oct 2018 21:11:19

I’d add Asensio for Pogba as well.

04 Oct 2018 21:28:44

Matic, Valencia and Jones.



Valencia because he's been absolutely woeful all season. He's out of position more often than not, and has forgot how to cross.



Matic, because for the last 7-8 months his level of performances have dropped considerably, he's turning 30 and I would personally like more of a Scholes/ Jorginho type of player than Matic in midfield.



Time to cut our losses with Jones, we have carried inconsistent players like him for far too much.

04 Oct 2018 21:37:15

Pogba, Martial and Sanchez out. Due to either attitude, not living up to hype or both.



Mbappe, Hazard and Varane in.



DeGea

Dalot, Varane, Bailly, Shaw

Matic, Pereira, Fred

Hazard, Mbappe, Rashford



Might not be perfect, but I'd like to watch that team.

04 Oct 2018 23:55:58

Id say Pogba, Darmian, Jones out and ins will depend on the manager.



If it is attacking manager like Klopp or Sarri then players like Asensio, Pulisic and Bailly will be good for us.



Its a tough question really as we all know players such as Smalling, Jones, Darmian, Valencia aren't good enough for a top team.



There is also question marks hanging over players like Pogba, Sanchez and Martial. I don't think theese guys are bad players but these players either need to improve their attitude and performances or leave the club.



These players above are meant to win us games and it isn't happening at the moment apart from Pogba producing once in a blue moon magic.



We are in a right mess and needs to be fixed soon.

05 Oct 2018 06:10:56

Any 3? Then here goes

Sell Mata, Fellaini and Martial

Buy Janet, Hazard and Mbappe.

05 Oct 2018 07:49:43

Too many in squad that were never good enough in the first place, have declined in ability, unreliable starters or attitude stinks:



Never good enough: Lindelof, Fellaini, Darmian



Declining: Matic, Valencia, Young, Mata



Unreliable: Jones, Bailly, Rojo



Attitude: Pogba, Martial, Sanchez



Unfortunately, we’ve accumulated a hitch-potch of abilities in last few years and it needs a very brave manager to come in, dismantle it and build again.



So build on:



De Gea



Dalot

Smalling (! )

Tuanzebe

Shaw



Fred

Herrera

Perreira

Lingard



Rashford

Lukaku



And start to blood youngsters:



Henderson

Gomes

Chong

Hamilton

Willock.

05 Oct 2018 08:26:27

I’m starting to dislike Matic with a passion, turns like a cruseliner and holds onto the ball far too long.

05 Oct 2018 08:46:50

Matic - Verratti

Pogba - Kante

Rashford - Hazard



I could do another 6, but a few bonus which are more realistic:



Valencia - Sidibe

Mata - Pullisic

Lukaku - Brick Wall (be a better finisher and link better)

05 Oct 2018 09:06:23

Jones because he can't stay fit. Pogba and Sanchez, there are many players with less talent than Pogba and Sanchez. However, I just feel they are what is wrong with our club atm.



Then I'd bring in Jose Giminez, Frenkie De Jong and Kylian Mbappe.



Three young talented and hungry players.

05 Oct 2018 10:48:47

I’d go with skriniar and gimenez as centre half’s. You can get rid of all of ours

Veratti and Saul in midfield

Mbappe up top

We can but dream



In all honesty I’d only keep De gea Dalot and Shaw the rest can be shipped out they ain’t good enough.

05 Oct 2018 12:38:06

Smalling, darmian and Valencia



Varane, Kimmich, Messi (If he’s not allowed then Kante)

05 Oct 2018 12:48:38

Some good responses there guys on both ins and outs. Its shocking how many of the current squad aren't considered good enough.

05 Oct 2018 13:03:21

As an opposing fan I tried to think of getting rid of 3 players that would make you weaker and I couldn’t get beyond De Gea.

05 Oct 2018 13:41:39
De Gea, Shaw and Rashford out. Karius, Cahill and Benteke in. At least then we could moan about the lack of quality players and us underperforming.

04 Oct 2018 21:41:42
Jose is in a tough spot. Everybody knows that.

But the optimist in me awaits the lineups before each game, hoping he'd have gone for attacking flair faster players than his trusted crop of the slow game down selection of players.

Andreas Pereira, had a really good preseason, started brightly vs leicester, lacking defensively, but has a tendency to move the ball very quickly and directly in midfield, did show a lot of hunger, but hasn't had a proper chance after the brighton loss. Too unfair?

Fred, started slowly, scored a goal vs wolves and almost scored another in the game, hasn't had a decent look since.

Bailly, suspect defensively sometimes, but has a urgency to his play trying to win the ball higher up the pitch, benched.

Herrera, hot and cold for a while but has a passion for the game and plays CB? What? Why? Doesn't get a regular look in.

Smalling, gets so much slack, but far more reliable and more fit than Jones and Rojo, deserves to stay ahead of those 2. Lesser of the evils.

Matic, Fellaini keep getting games when they aren't even playing that well.

Would you rather have Martial starting over Sanchez? I can vouch that martial would have scored twice the number of goals than sanchez has. The amount of chances sanchez has got is unreal. Jose should show a little confidence in martial and play him for 3-4 games continuously and see if that helps martial boost his confidence.

I would really like us to play a midfield of Fred, Pogba and Fellaini vs Wolves.

And the front 3 I would play Rashford, Martial and Pereira.
Lukaku deserves to be benched.

I thought jose was a ballsy manager, but he has no balls. He's too afraid and too safe.
I expected him and us to be tactically so much better than our previous manager reigns. We haven't.
Instead we are outclassed tactically in midfield, and let noble dictate the game? Put a few tackles on him, and press him, he is not world class.

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05 Oct 2018 13:20:30
Mourinho is a percentage manager, always has been and always will be .
When he won the league last time with Chelsea they actually played some decent stuff up to Christmas, then got beaten 5 - 3 by Spurs and he went totally negative for the rest of the season .
Ballsy managers are the ones who stick to their way of playing home and away no matter the opposition and go out to win every time .

05 Oct 2018 14:42:44
Feel sorry for Pereira. He's an attacking player, expected to know how to play defensive midfield, after one pre-season.

04 Oct 2018 14:34:13

City and Liverpool have inferior records to us in the CL currently. Off the pitch they both have owners with a clear sporting vision and plan. How does sacking Jose address these factors for United?



Whilst parts of our fan base drool for the blood of Jose, maybe they should consider Jose is fighting an internal battle on two fronts. An inept boardroom and a self-indulgent playing staff. A staff who Roy Keane states quite rightly should fight for the shirt when they step on the pitch irrespective of what’s going on off it.



But hey, we’re the ultimate in toxic fan bases so let’s now put a manager who has won the champions league with three different clubs in office. Oh, hang on a minute. There isn’t one, so let’s go to ZZ, Giggs or Poch because they’re the answer. The latter have won nothing and ZZ could have won what he did spending all his time on the golf course.



Jose is the first manager we’ve had, including Sir Alex, who in his own demonstrative way is standing up to our blood-sucking board who have created this player-power driven scenario through its love of commercial success at the expense of footballing success. Using this new measure of success Lingard, Pogba et al. actually believe they are world class. It’s a joke. Likes not points are the order of the day.



We have to support Jose. Get him sacked and the Glazers are given another three years of transition within which we can get endorsements for the nappies and wet wipes that most of these jokes wearing the shirt warrant.

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04 Oct 2018 14:41:01
There are reports Mourinho might only have one game to save his job.

Now I don't necessarily believe these reports, however if they are true then I find that a strange way to run a club. Deciding the managers position on an almost game by game basis.

Also if true I would imagine it will fire up a certain Mr Benitez who is managing our next opponents (Newcastle) . After all of the bickering between the two I'm sure Rafa would love to be the man to deliver a telling blow costing Mourinho his job.

Either way this highlights the issue we have with Mourinho as our manager, the fact that these kind of reports are coming out on a daily basis is creating unrest amongst the fans, unrest amongst the staff and unrest amongst the player at the club. It is creating a very toxic environment which is damaging to the club.

There could be long term ramifications for our club, in terms of player power, in terms of managers wanting or not wanting to come to a club that might start to get a reputation as being unmanageable with fans turning on the manager quickly if things don't go to plan.

This toxicity is far more damaging than many of us probably realise. How many of us NOW would have had another season of LvG if it meant we had Allegri afterward?

How did that effect the long term position of the club? Can we even truly tell at the moment or it is something we will only see in a few years?

I am no fan of Jose Mourinho at Manchester United. He is a great manager but one not suited to managing our club. That was my view before we hired Jose and it is my view now.

However, we might be at a "sliding doors" moment, where the decisions we make and the club makes in the coming weeks could drastically effect where our club is in 3 to 4 years time.

Now some of you won't believe that or won't want to believe that. Many of you might well be the same people who said "Jose will change for United, its his dream job" or similar.

However, I look down the road to Liverpool, 28 years since they last won the league, after almost two decades of dominance. Sound familiar?

Never believe we are too big to fail, yes we have a huge fan base around the world, Liverpool probably have the second or third largest fan base around the world and yet that still hasn't won them the league.

Arrogance is what has got us into this situation, the arrogance of the owners, the arrogance of the board, the arrogance of the players and the arrogance of the fans.

We need to be humble and appreciate we have no divine right to win anything, our finances are more likely to kick up a Glazer trust fund than help dig us out of our current situation. Money doesn't buy you effort, money doesn't buy you desire, and money doesn't always buy you talent.

You might want to consider that before Sir Alex retired Liverpool had spent more than us (Gross) in EPL history.

We need to get behind the club, and stop throwing our toys out the pram like the spoilt brats we are acting like.

Yes, Mourinho in my opinion, and in many others now, isn't the right man to take us forward.

But we truly do need to consider whether the best way to wash sand out of our eyes is with alcohol. We may well be doing more damage than we realise.

Agree10 Disagree3

04 Oct 2018 15:07:45
Shappy, haven't you realised yet. This site is all about judging on a game by game basis. Whether it be the manager, a particular player, the state of our club, or the merits of our rivals should they have a bad result. Get with the programme, mate.

04 Oct 2018 15:27:24
True Stevie, I just hoped the people actually running things wouldn't have the same approach. The fact is most fans don't know what we want. We think we do, but when we get it, we suddenly realise it's something else we want.

How many fans on this site moaned throughout the 00's that our club didn't sign the biggest star names from around the world. moaned that we only signed players from within the EPL or gambled on cheaper buys from abroad.

Yet now if given the choice would you rather have:

Keane, Cantona, Yorke, Ferdinand, Solskjear, Schmeichel and Ronaldo.

OR

Veron, Di Maria, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, Ibrahimovic, Pogba and Sanchez.

It's an easy choice I know, yet when we had the players from the first list many fans wanted the type of players from the second list.

Fans are like kids in a sweet shop, we want it all and no matter what we choose we will feel something else was better.

The owners will always get pelters until they sell up. Then we will likely bemoan the new owners and consider the previous owners better. The Glazers have their faults, and I don't trust them. Yet there are many worse owners out there and we could easily end up with one of them.

The owners, the staff and the players are all transient, the fans are the ones who live breath and die for the club. Maybe we need to set the standard.

04 Oct 2018 11:30:53

Bit of a long shot this one, but should we try for Klopp, Liverpool are 3 games without a win, Surely the board will move him on if this rot continues.

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04 Oct 2018 12:37:52
😂 more chance of getting benitez.

03 Oct 2018 13:48:32

The situation is pretty dire and the only way Jose could possibly turn it around is with some drastic action. At this stage he has nothing to lose.



My suggestion is remove all the underperforming players in the first team squad. I wouldn't even have them playing with and influencing the reserves. Just tell them to stay away from the stadium and the training ground. In their place he should promote the best of the reserve players.



It's radical and there is no way it would happen but you have to cut away the traumatised part of something if the whole is to stand any chance of surviving.



Incidently, I'm not saying that Mourinho is in the right and the underperforming players are in the wrong but he clearly needs to start again with a fresh group of people to stand any chance of getting something going.

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03 Oct 2018 19:52:57
I posted something very similar on banter page manc man.

04 Oct 2018 21:50:13
Exactly my view, if players are not performing they deserve to be benched/ left out. I am tired of seeing Antonio Valencia play RB and provide absolutely nothing all game.

03 Oct 2018 10:37:17
If there is one symbol that optimises the brand of football we have become accustomed since SAF's unexpected retirement threw the Club into turmoil it must be that of the unwieldy Marouane Fellaini.

Brilliant when deployed as a shield in front of a weak and fragile defence to foil the battering rams of Chris Wood and Troy Deeney yet anonymous and cumbersome against the more diminutive and quicker players of West Ham and Valencia (yes I have just said that)!

I lauded Fellaini after the wins against Burnley and Watford yet watched aghast as he was out passed, out manoeuvred and out ran by West Ham and Valencia. I mused could he play a role against the better teams and we now have our answer. I can only imagine he stayed on the field to add some extra inches in both boxes when defending and attacking set pieces and corners and this fact alone tells us everything we need to know about our current plight. Too feeble at the back and toothless going forward that we're now reliant on such basic and archaic tactics that our intrepid owners should re brand us Wimbledon FC and move us to Milton Keynes. This type of football deserves to be played out in front of 2,000 people that often turned out to watch their team of giants and monsters not the sacred and hollowed turf at The Theatre of Dreams. I have nothing against Fellaini. By all accounts he's a consummate professional and he can be an effective weapon when used correctly but without wanting to appear snobbish surely we need better if we are serious about wanting to challenge for the top trophies.

We now play cowardly, percentage football devoid of imagination and flair. When things are tough it's been too easy just to throw Fellaini into the team as the answer to our problems in both boxes. When we need stiffening up at the back up play Fellaini, when we need a goal hoof it up to Fellaini, he's become the solution and the problem and until this changes I fear there will be no light at the end of the tunnel.

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03 Oct 2018 11:02:57
Fellaini was great in the team when he was not next to Matic in a 2 man super slow midfield. It is clear both of them cannot play together, we played well and Fellaini played well without him, with both we do not have enough pace or dynamism, I am unsure how a manager cannot see this.

03 Oct 2018 11:17:23
DLIB

The strangest thing was Fellaini complete the 90 minutes with both Mata and Fred on the bench.

Our manager is clueless. He knows better than me that’s for sure but it’s crazy what’s happening!

He always try to avoid defeat and he’s satisfied with a draw.

03 Oct 2018 12:23:50
Worst than that, in the interview after the match Jose bemoaned the lack of technical quality on the pitch. With both Mata and Fred on the bench he had the ability to introduce more technical quality if he felt that was what was needed. Yet he chose to stick with Fellaini.

Mourinho = power and pace over intelligence and technical ability every single time.

03 Oct 2018 13:13:40
I agree Shappy the manager appears to be talking in riddles. You can add Pereira to that list. Derby, Wolves and Valencia have recently come to Old Trafford where they have simply out ran, out manoeuvred and out passed us. I don't think many would argue that those teams have better players so why have they out performed us on our own turf?

Maybe our biggest mistake is we haven't yet appointed a manager in our own image. If we had someone that valued attack over defence, risk over caution and technical ability over size and strength then maybe we'd all have the patience to wait for results.

For what it's worth I don't think Mourinho was a bad appointment. In some respects he has completed most of what he was brought into achieve. Two trophies in his first season including returning us to the top table of European football . Runners up in both the league and Fa cup and but for a record breaking City team a league title would ordinarily have been well without our grasp. Inevitably the infamous third season symptoms have returned and it looks increasingly likely that his reign will come to a acrimonious end. History repeating itself you might say but without a league title this time. Was this likely to have ended up any other way?

03 Oct 2018 10:17:14
Why does jose think lukaku can play like drogba?

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