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21 Oct 2017 17:52:04
Oh dear, well that was disappointing.

That is exactly the type of game I expected City to slip up in and not us.

Difficult cold, rainy, blustery conditions in front of a partisan crowd and a hardworking, fiercely competitive and organised unit. I expected Stones or Otamendi to make the kind of mistakes Lindelof made with Sterling giving the ball away in midfield then loads of possession trying to play intricate little passes through the centre of a congested pitch!

I thought we had the power and pace to cope with those types of conditions and teams but we looked vulnerable and lightweight without Pogba, Fellaini and Bailly especially when Jones went off!

We had no cutting edge going forward! Oh well, brought back down to earth with a crashing thud. Our next few games (Spurs, Chelsea) will probably define our season such is the form of City at the moment (Title challenge or top 4)!

Danny Lancs

 

 

15 Oct 2017 10:05:40
Morning guys,

I've read all the posts and it got me thinking about what football or sport for that matter is all about?

Some have complained that they weren't entertained yesterday, but is competitive sport really about entertainment?

Is it Jose job to entertain the fans or win football matches?

I think it's Jose job to win football matches. If he doesn't he'll lose his job. I've seen Arsenal labelled the great entertainers, bigged up by the media lovies but they haven't won the league in over 10 years. They time and time again believe all their own hype and some how try to take some satisfaction from the fact they that play attractive football. Like that in some way compensates for their inability to win the big trophies. In reality they lack what is takes to win. The mental toughness, fortitude, desire, sacrifice, organisation, leadership the ugly side of the game that nobody wants to talk about. They jacked up at Anfield, went gung ho, committed men forward with no regard for their defensive duties and rightly got spanked 4-0. Is that what we all want to see? Could we take solace in the fact that at least we had a go, committed men forward and tried to score! I don't think so!

As in life the key to everything is balance. We've played some fantastic attacking football this session and I've really enjoyed watching us. The game yesterday needs to be taken in isolation. It didn't represent our usual style of play this season. We had some key injuries to contend with as well. Jose is a master of the bespoke one off performance. When he plays our perceived title rivals he will have a plan and adopt our style and formation accordingly in order to give us the best chance of winning that game. It might not always be pretty but it might just win us the title!

I love Jose I think he's the best manager in the world and most importantly he's a winner. He knows style and finesse count for nothing if you don't win football matches and I admire that.

Competitive sport is about winning nothing else matters. If you can't win it doesn't make one bit of difference if you've entertained the crowd or not. If you can win whilst playing with flair and creativity well that's how legends are made!

Danny Lancs

1.) 15 Oct 2017 11:02:06
Didnt really mind the setup yesterday, the back 6 picked itself because of injuries and I don't see the point of playing the way liverpool want us to play, i. e. open and expansive, we are not a charity. Some of the stuff coming out about jose killing football is so over the top.

That being said our play on the counter attack was abysmal yesterday, herrera, micky and martial couldn't string two passes together and the only time they did we created lukakus chance.

Mkhitaryan especially can get a bit frustrating as he just let's games drift and flatters to deceive on occasions.


2.) 15 Oct 2017 11:52:22
I agree DSG the tactics were pragmatic but why play into Liverpools hands and play the game they want. Some of the players have to take responsibility and admit that they just weren't good enough in possession yesterday!

A well earned point and if we can continue to win the games we should and carrying on scoring goals that will be quickly forgotten. We might not be the great entertainers just yet but you've got to admire the organisation and mental toughness he's instilled back into the squad. Well over 20 games unbeaten last season and I don't think we've lost at home since City beat us last year. Jose is building the foundations of a title winning team the next piece of the jigsaw is to instill a bit of flair and creativity into our game especially in the big games. We're heading in the right direction in my opinion roll on the next game.


3.) 15 Oct 2017 11:55:31
It's about winning to the players and manager - it's about entertainment to the fans. If it's just about winning for everyone then why isn't other boring sports like chess popular? It's because football is meant to be entertaining, the reason so much money is in the game and people like Jose benefit from that is because of the supposed entertainment factor. Utd built up so much love around the world because of the way we played, it's being dismantled by people like Moyes, LVG and Jose.

Jose continues to bite the hand that feeds him imo. He has benefited all his career from anti-football, people don't tune in for the rubbish he serves up, but he has benefited greatly from it. If every manager took the Jose approach to football then Chess would probably become more popular! We have played like that all season, it's just we were up against a decent team yesterday, it will be the same against any top 6 team. BORING, cagey anti-football. You only have so much rope and ours is fast diminishing.


4.) 15 Oct 2017 12:24:13
It's about who we are and what we stand for. Winning is not everything, if we grind out result after result boring the plants off us all then I am not interested and would be howling for change. If you are happy with that then I don't understand how y u support United, we are better than that. We know Jose is pragmatic and knows how to park a bus but after our rip roaring start I think we expected more then the tripe served up in the second half yesterday. If Jose was concerned about midfield why didn't he switch to 3 to match up?

We thought he had changed but yesterday was embarrassing, not the result but the way we played. I sincerely hope if was a hangover from the international break and we see the horses run fee once again.


5.) 15 Oct 2017 12:56:22
I don't have a problem to be honest. We secured a point, a better result for us than them. The only thing that let us down was the performance of the front 5/ 6 who were al or. We gave the ball away time and time again, and our crossing and set piece delivery was shambolic. Can't blame Jose for that. Decent point away at anfield and a very good start to the season as a whole.


6.) 15 Oct 2017 13:15:23
Come on Beast you don't truly mean that.

You want to have your cake and eat it!

If Utd had turned in some of the defensive displays we've seen from the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or even City you'd be going mad! You want attacking attractive football but only if that brings winning football. I don't believe for one minute you'd be happy with us playing 'attractive' football (whatever that means) if we didn't also win games. Like I said it's all about balance.

City are playing some fantastic stuff at the moment but so have we this year. They always start well but let's just see how the season pans out. If they continue playing the way they are and keep winning games then they'll have the best of both worlds and have won the league in style which must be the ultimate goal of any team.

There is more than one way to play football and I don't fall into the trap of thinking one style is superior to another. I'll leave that for the football purists to debate. The best way to play football is to win, winning brings in the fans and the money, winning is recorded in the history books and if you can do it with style and flair well that's the ultimate goal.

I can't speak for others but I go to watch Utd to win. That's what makes me happy. If we'd have gone out and played great attacking football but lost 4-3 I'd wouldn't take much comfort in that. Big games are hard, often become wars of attrition and victory is sweet no matter how it comes. Big games often disappoint you simply can't play free flowing attacking football every game there is more to football and sometimes you just have to admire a well drilled, disciplined, defensive performance as much as a free flowing attacking one.

If you want entertainment go to a concert, a festival or the cinema cause winning is enough to keep me entertained and enthralled any day of the week.

Sorry AJH that's arrogant, romantic bulls**** and you know it! You've got to take that game in isolation. We've played some great stuff this year. Don't kid yourself I've seen Fergi sides play some pragmatic stuff and stink the place out and whilst I'm not old enough to have seen the Busby Babes I'm sure they were pragmatic at times as well.

We'll have to agree to disagree but I simply can't accept that we as a Club are bigger or better than winning ugly or being defensive, give me substance over style anyway if it means us winning trophies.


7.) 16 Oct 2017 05:18:12
Danny. I agree with most of what you said except mourinho being the best mansger. I think Pep is by far the best manager. His record and style of play are both better than Mourinho. Their head to head in Spain also has Pep well ahead.
Problem with our team and tactics against the big teams, is that we are not allowed to counter quickly and we don't have the midfield to do so. Our normal midfield contains Pogba matic and Fellaini, are any of these going to help you counter attack with pace? I love to watch teams counter attack but we simply don't have the personnel or the tactical permission to do it.


8.) 16 Oct 2017 07:51:09
Danny you best be careful mate, what you saying is making a lot of sense and pretty much the whole post was quiet reasonable and logical, so please address that yeah, coz ain't nobody got time for sensibilities. :)

If i watched a game and lost, I'd want us to win the next one. if we won the next and didn't play really well, i'd still be happy but would want us to play better. Now where the "out with Jose" and "we are dying" stuff comes into the equation, i have no clue.

But yeah we didn't play well on saturday, Liverpool played well, we got a point away from home. its fine, onwards and upwards.


9.) 16 Oct 2017 13:49:18
Schmid - I can't argue that Jose is a better manger than Pep, both are at the top of their game. Maybe it comes down to personal preference. I admire Jose as I believe he is more adaptable and he is prepared to use different styles, tactics etc in order to win games. Pep steadfastly believes in his style/ philosophy and refuses to change even if this isn't working or having an impact on the game. I admire his faith and there is no doubt he's a fantastic manger but I think he needs the best players to make his system work. I think Jose could manage any team and turn them into winners I'm not sure the same could be said for Pep. Maybe I'm wrong about Pep, I love them both I just think Jose is a bit more adaptable and is prepared to sacrifice style for substance on occasions which I admire. He doesn't fall into the trap of believing there is only one way to play football and points aren't dished out for style, possession or pass completion percentages!

I actually think Jose would make a fantastic England manager. The problem with our National Team at the moment is we've lost our identity (if we ever had one) . We always enviously look at other countries and try to copy them whichever is flavour of the day. When the Italians are successful we envy their defensive, tactical approach, when is was the Spanish we craved tiki taka possession based football, we crave the Germans organisation and efficiency, the Brazilians flair and creativity the list is endless. When I think of what a good England team should represent I think of a well organised, powerful, hard working, fast, direct (this doesn't mean long ball) team playing at a high intensity. I think these are the attributes Jose wants in his team and we shouldn't apologise or be afraid of what we are and what we enjoy. This type of football has what's made the Premier League so successful.
Anyway I apologise for digressing!

Thanks Raconteur just saying it as I see it not everybody will agree but that's why I love this site so I can read other people's views and perspectives.


10.) 16 Oct 2017 16:38:32
He seems to talk a lot of sense this Danny from Lancs.


 

 

14 Oct 2017 14:22:33
Did we really expect anything different?

Take the point and move on!

Danny Lancs

{Ed025's Note - that will bring the fans back danny...not..


1.) 14 Oct 2017 14:28:42
Bring the fans back? Did they go somewhere?!


2.) 14 Oct 2017 14:30:36
i ll take it. good point. our attack was woeful. not being able to string four passes together. no quaity on the ball. no runners from midfield. we were setup to block liverpool as our players cannot be trusted to take the game to liverpool and pin them in their third. so we had to setup this way or risk attacking them and conceding a few. I think the maanger got it right, we just did nt have the few moments we needed in the attacking third.


3.) 14 Oct 2017 14:54:07
Hey Ryans left foot! Liverpool fan in peace! Don't you think after spending 300 million in 2 windows Mourinho should have had a team which he can trust to attack a liverpool team which is vulnerable in defence. So i don't just buy your point that he had to set up that way. Especially when we lost one of our best players in Mane. Would love an honest opinion of others too!


4.) 14 Oct 2017 15:20:42
At last. Some sense being spoken. We're not as great as we think we are. And today we were missing most of our midfield. And some thought we should just go out there and blast Liverpool off the pitch.
It is exactly how I thought the match will go and the draw mourinho wanted.
We've not played any of the top teams until today. And yet some posters had us scoring 3 or 4 against Liverpool at Anfield with half our midfield missing.
I said it before and I'll say it again, we simply do not have anyone with world class quality at keeping the ball, passing the ball or opening defences. We lack width and these deficiencies will come to haunt us. Dare I say, Sanchez will make a great difference to our side but he looks City bound.


5.) 14 Oct 2017 15:30:12
You are right mate. We got Mkhitaryan and lukaku over the last two years. We should be playing better - no question, the injuries don’t help either. And I am sure if we had seen some good attacking play in the first half mou would have setup better in the second. But given how we played I side with the manager in making sure we don’t lose and then going for the win. We simply could not hold on to the ball which was terribly disappointing .


 

 

18 Sep 2017 10:01:12
Good morning everybody,

Whilst I agree our performance wasn't vintage yesterday, we were still solid and ran out easy winners in the end. Over the past few seasons that game would definitely have ended a draw.

Everton are no mugs, they got a good draw at City and whilst they haven't been playing well recently they came to OT more determined to work hard, be disciplined and give us a difficult afternoon.

I thought we were superb for the first 20-30 minutes, Valencia scored a wonder goal and had Lukaku taken a relatively easy chance not long after the result would never have been in doubt!

Whilst Everton improved and we gave away a few chances (cue Dave the Save) I always thought that the more possession they had and the more men they committed forward the more dangerous we looked on the counter attack.

We are now a massive threat on the break which is the main difference between this season and last. We are a team that can absorb pressure and break quickly. Lukaku has not only been brilliant in terms of goals but has improved the whole team. He allows more space for the likes of Rashford, Martial, Miki etc he occupies defenders with his strength, he can run the channels and is a threat in behind, his finishing is reliable, he's dangerous from set pieces and he's hit the ground running. What a signing!

Can we win the title, I'm not sure and I'm certainly not getting carried away but we've got our best chance since Fergi retired.

All in all a 4-0 win from a difficult fixture is a fantastic result.

Danny Lancs

 

 

20 Aug 2017 08:25:05
How good it feels to wake up on a Sunday morning after another enthralling 4-0 win!

Full English, brew, watch MOTD on catch up again, Spurs v Chelsea to look forward to this afternoon. If Carlsberg did weekends or maybe I'm just showing my age!

Danny Lancs

 

 

 

Danny Lancs's rumour replies

 

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04 Aug 2017 09:52:39
Shappy I tend to agree with most of what you say especially regarding the injuries and his game being based around pace but surely a fit and in form Bale would transform us into major contenders for both domestic and European honours. I agree given the figures involved it would be a financial gamble for the Club but players of Bale's calibre don't come on the market that often and if we seriously want to get back competing at an elite level then it's a gamble worth taking in my opinion.

Danny Lancs

 

 

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15 Jun 2017 18:19:09
I agree GDS it's all speculation anyway.

The problem we're facing is the player is under contract, from what I've read Madrid would like to keep him and he has no real desire to leave other than to play more regularly which can't be guaranteed at any top Club he joins anyway!

Madrid can name their price, try and get the best deal for their Club and negotiate from a position of strength.

If we don't want to pay the money we go elsewhere but your probably talking even more money for the likes of Lukaku or Belotti and are either of them much better anyway?

If we don't go for any of the above who are the alternatives?

Do we go with just Rashford and Martial?

For what it's worth I don't think we'll pay anywhere near £80m and the deal will get done around £60-65m.

We set the bar high when we shelled out over £60m for the relatively unknown Martial, we can't blame Madrid for trying to get the best deal for their player.

Danny Lancs

 

 

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13 Jun 2017 23:32:48
I think Martinez would be a great signing Wallace.

Danny Lancs

 

 

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13 Jun 2017 16:22:41
For what's it worth I'd like to see us sign a ball playing midfielder or deep lying play maker. Somebody who can dictate the play, get on the ball and play incisive forward passes from deep positions into midfield and the front men. An intelligent player to sit in front of the back four, always be available for the ball, link the play, keep possession but is able to play forward incisive balls rather than playing sideways all the time, be the quarterback of our team so to speak. I think that's the type of midfielder we should be targeting. We've already got a combative ball winning midfielder in Herrera. He needs to be released forward to press and win the ball higher up the pitch and we need somebody that can feed Pogba the ball further forward where he can be more creative. Just my opinion and the way I see things and I'm not sure Matic fits the bill?

Danny Lancs

 

 

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02 May 2017 11:35:37
Good post Leahy, I suppose that puts things into perspective and I totally agree with Eric that we need a lot more from our attacking players.

Whilst our finishing has been poor I'm not sure that tells the full story!

From memory despite our struggles in front of goal we've managed to get in front against Swansea, Bournemouth, Stoke and Arsenal at OT and we've surrendered leads against Everton away, Anderlect (twice) and Rostov in the Europa.

This suggests to me that even through the stats suggests that our defence is relatively solid we also have a vulnerability at the back that needs attention.

Titles are built on clean sheets and a good Utd team should not be surrendering leads to Swansea, Bournemouth and Stoke especially at OT. If we hang on and win two of those games we'd be 4 points better off and in pole position for top 4. We've conceded last minute goals to Arsenal and Everton, if we hang on to win one of those games that's another 2 points. Title winning teams should be scoring last minute winners not conceding them and holding onto leads especially at home.

It's been an incredibly frustrating season and with better finishing and defending a so far underwhelming season could have been very different.

The unbeaten run is positive and demonstrates a degree of mental toughness and resilience. Moving forward we need to take care of the little details which make the big difference. Concentration at the back and clinical ruthlessness up front. Unfortunately it's these details that cost the money. On one hand we've very close on the other we're a million miles away, I suppose it just depends on what side of the fence you sit.

Danny Lancs

 

 

 

Danny Lancs's banter replies

 

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21 Oct 2017 19:18:17
Schmid - I think it's hard to judge that game as two atrocious individual mistakes cost us and I think Lindelof was dreadful for the Mata mistake as well!

Up until Jones went off we we're well in control of that game. We can't expect champagne football in such wet and blustery conditions. Granted we hadn't created much but it was only a matter of time and they just couldn't get enough possession of the ball to be any threat! The Jones injury cost us the game today in my opinion.

It remains to be seen if Lindelof will be a good signing but at the moment he's a liability and has made goal conceding mistakes in nearly every appearance for us including pre season, to say it's been a chastising start to his Utd career is an understatement! I'm not writing him off but he needs to improve quickly especially if he has to start against Spurs next week! I'd even consider playing Tuanzebe such is his form and confidence at the moment!

What I will say is that we're suffering from the same kind of inconsistency in the three positions behind Lukaku as we did last year. Miki has gone missing, Mata has been ineffective for most of the season in my opinion and Martial has showed today as he did last week against Liverpool that he's just not prepared to put in the hard yards required. His attitude in both games has been poor to say the least. At least Rashford has contributed more and his work rate, attitude and application can never be questioned.

I think Jose was desperate to get that extra attacking player in the summer and I think we're just starting to see why.

Anyway in difficult conditions the remit should have been remain solid and organised, match their effort and work rate, make no mistakes and we'll eventually win this game though our superior quality; enter Lindelof and the rest is history! Harsh but true!

Danny Lancs

 

 

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16 Oct 2017 15:57:59
Good point Jred,

Jesus is probably the best of the lot but I don't think there's much between Rashford, Martial, Sane and Sterling.

I think Sane would be great for us whilst I obviously haven't seen as much of him as the Utd lads he seems to be more of a natural wide player than Rashford or Martial. He's left footed so maybe he could play on the right wing instead of Mata to add some pace and penetration to our team?

I think Martial would be fantastic in the City side given Pep's inclination for attacking football. He'd play higher up the pitch and be given more licence in that left channel to run at players and create things. The same could be said for Rashford.

Danny Lancs

 

 

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16 Oct 2017 13:49:18
Schmid - I can't argue that Jose is a better manger than Pep, both are at the top of their game. Maybe it comes down to personal preference. I admire Jose as I believe he is more adaptable and he is prepared to use different styles, tactics etc in order to win games. Pep steadfastly believes in his style/ philosophy and refuses to change even if this isn't working or having an impact on the game. I admire his faith and there is no doubt he's a fantastic manger but I think he needs the best players to make his system work. I think Jose could manage any team and turn them into winners I'm not sure the same could be said for Pep. Maybe I'm wrong about Pep, I love them both I just think Jose is a bit more adaptable and is prepared to sacrifice style for substance on occasions which I admire. He doesn't fall into the trap of believing there is only one way to play football and points aren't dished out for style, possession or pass completion percentages!

I actually think Jose would make a fantastic England manager. The problem with our National Team at the moment is we've lost our identity (if we ever had one) . We always enviously look at other countries and try to copy them whichever is flavour of the day. When the Italians are successful we envy their defensive, tactical approach, when is was the Spanish we craved tiki taka possession based football, we crave the Germans organisation and efficiency, the Brazilians flair and creativity the list is endless. When I think of what a good England team should represent I think of a well organised, powerful, hard working, fast, direct (this doesn't mean long ball) team playing at a high intensity. I think these are the attributes Jose wants in his team and we shouldn't apologise or be afraid of what we are and what we enjoy. This type of football has what's made the Premier League so successful.
Anyway I apologise for digressing!

Thanks Raconteur just saying it as I see it not everybody will agree but that's why I love this site so I can read other people's views and perspectives.

Danny Lancs

 

 

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16 Oct 2017 13:09:31
Great post Shappy you always find a way to bring some perspective to the debate.

Danny Lancs

 

 

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15 Oct 2017 13:15:23
Come on Beast you don't truly mean that.

You want to have your cake and eat it!

If Utd had turned in some of the defensive displays we've seen from the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or even City you'd be going mad! You want attacking attractive football but only if that brings winning football. I don't believe for one minute you'd be happy with us playing 'attractive' football (whatever that means) if we didn't also win games. Like I said it's all about balance.

City are playing some fantastic stuff at the moment but so have we this year. They always start well but let's just see how the season pans out. If they continue playing the way they are and keep winning games then they'll have the best of both worlds and have won the league in style which must be the ultimate goal of any team.

There is more than one way to play football and I don't fall into the trap of thinking one style is superior to another. I'll leave that for the football purists to debate. The best way to play football is to win, winning brings in the fans and the money, winning is recorded in the history books and if you can do it with style and flair well that's the ultimate goal.

I can't speak for others but I go to watch Utd to win. That's what makes me happy. If we'd have gone out and played great attacking football but lost 4-3 I'd wouldn't take much comfort in that. Big games are hard, often become wars of attrition and victory is sweet no matter how it comes. Big games often disappoint you simply can't play free flowing attacking football every game there is more to football and sometimes you just have to admire a well drilled, disciplined, defensive performance as much as a free flowing attacking one.

If you want entertainment go to a concert, a festival or the cinema cause winning is enough to keep me entertained and enthralled any day of the week.

Sorry AJH that's arrogant, romantic bulls**** and you know it! You've got to take that game in isolation. We've played some great stuff this year. Don't kid yourself I've seen Fergi sides play some pragmatic stuff and stink the place out and whilst I'm not old enough to have seen the Busby Babes I'm sure they were pragmatic at times as well.

We'll have to agree to disagree but I simply can't accept that we as a Club are bigger or better than winning ugly or being defensive, give me substance over style anyway if it means us winning trophies.

Danny Lancs