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31 Aug 2015 17:22:58
Question for the Eds, if I may.

It appears that quite a few of the players we've bought were on Moyes' shopping list for United (Shaw, Herrera and now, it appears, Martial). Obviously, managers aren't going to throw away good work done before their arrival, but is this a sign that United are moving away from the manager choosing which players get bought? Or is it fairly typical? Is it likely all managers (and their scouting networks) have the same players on their list?

Thanks.

DarkLard08

{Ed004's Note - Isn't there report saying LvG has been monitoring Martial for the past year}


1.) 31 Aug 2015 17:45:53
Hi Ed004

Hadn't seen that. I guess there's a short short list of players to look at in reality.

Big money, but if we're in a world where De Bruyne costs £55m, well.


 

 

27 Aug 2013 09:31:36
I don't know why people are worrying about Rooney shooting when he could have passed to RVP. If he has a shooting opportunity he should take it. That's what strikers are there for.

Rooney's performance overall was good but it wasn't world class as some are suggesting. His work rate was terrific, and his long passing was really good. His first touch let him down a bit at times (which might be rustiness with his lack of games but was a problem all of last season too) and his short passing remains a little suspect at times - he has some great ideas but doesn't appear to be able to execute them (again, this could be lack of match sharpness but was a problem last season). The area where he appears to have improved over last year is that he looked like he stuck to the plan this time. It was probably an 8/10 performance overall which, given his lack of pre-season football, is very promising. However, I'd add 2 provisos. As mentioned, some of the problems with his game over the last 12-18 months were still apparent last night. And it's just 1 game he had to motivate himself for. If he does want to leave, he might not be able to find that level of effort every game.

Overall, really cagey game, but probably made that by City getting beat by Cardiff. If City had won, there would have been more pressure on both sides to get 3 points. I'm happy with it, given how we normally struggle with them at OT. Wasn't too impressed with Mourinho - the Schurrle decision clearly wasn't working early on but he stuck with it for a long time, which isn't like him, and the Mikel substitution near the end actually drew us onto them and nearly tipped the balance back to us. I thought Jones and Valencia both struggled, and that Cleverley played really well, as did Rio and Vidic.

DarkLard08

1.) I don't think Rooney looked fully match sharp but with some top attacking players on show hazard Oscar rvp etc and in a tight cagey game he looked the best attacking player
Jred


2.) Yeah, I'd agree with that. A lot of that was down to his workrate rather than any specific acts of brilliance. I thought de Bruyne and Welbeck did well too.

I don't want to speak too soon - but Hazard doesn't look like the player he claims to be, does he?


 

 

08 Aug 2013 23:23:40
Like others, I'm getting bored of the negativity on here now. Not the KLOOT designed-to-get-a-response style negativity. The oh-my-God-it's-the-end-of-the-world negativity. It just shows how spoilt many United fans are. I can remember United as a 2nd Division team, and as a team fighting to avoid relegation from the top flight and being saved by Robson. It'd be nice to see just a little more perspective being applied to some of the melodrama once in a while.

Even if we get to September 2nd and haven't signed anyone of note, there's still always the possibility that the gaps it creates in the first team squad will give someone like Januzaj or Powell a chance to sign.

So, by all means, express concern, say you're worried, but don't make it sound like it's the worst thing that's ever happened in your life, even if it is. (And, if it is, I'd suggest you get out a bit more).

DarkLard08

1.) Blooming well said Dark lard
Antman


2.) Darklard08

I was supporting for a few years pre relegation but am concerned at the situation at present and will be until the club addresses the first team inadequacies this window.

I recall that one of our managers around 1970, post Sir Matt, wanted to sign a major player but the club rejected his request and we headed in the wrong direction. Not suggesting that would happen but if we drop then 3rd or 4th can become 5th. Think it won't happen? Look at Liverpool 1990 and even more recently, they or their fans couldn't see it either.
We know what we need, the glazers need to give Woodward the money. let's see what Sept 2nd brings.


 

 

07 Aug 2013 19:27:45
Deeps

Sorry it's took me a while to answer.

First, personally, I don't think individual stats are everything when it comes to a team game and we shouldn't judge a player's worth to a team solely on them (even goalscorers). RVN is the classic example of this - fabulous player. Best pure striker I've seen. 95 goals in 150 games for us. And yet we had our leanest spell in the last 20 years while he led the line for us.

In terms of Rooney, I'm not jumping on the bandwagon and saying he's awful, and I'm not saying he wouldn't be a loss if he wasn't replaced.

What I am saying is that I don't think he's integral to the success of the team anymore and, therefore, we can't justify keeping him as our highest paid player. If he and RVP were fit and we were only going to play one striker, most of us would go for RVP. To expect Rooney to stay and play second fiddle to RVP is unrealistic. I personally don't think Rooney has worked hard enough to find a role alongside RVP (ultimately that's what did for RVN - he couldn't find a way to work with the newer players like Rooney and Ronaldo and disrupted the dressing room while that was going on). So, on that basis alone, we should let him go. I don't believe in forcing players who want to leave to stay - no matter how good they are. I think Rooney's been looking to move on, or at least not had his heart wholly at United, for a long time now. Prior to the RVP pursuit beginning last summer, there were some initial rumblings from his camp about new deal, ambition, etc. which were quickly quelled when the RVP news broke. He also did himself a lot of damage returning to pre-season in 2012 unfit and overweight - particularly when his place was being challenged for the first time.

He isn't the player he was in 2009/10, just after Ronaldo left, when he looked like he might get close to Ronaldo and Messi in quality. His touch is worse. His distribution is worse. His decision making is significantly worse. His attitude is also worse. My personal opinion that only the last one can be completely fixed. He hasn't fulfilled his potential, which is what his huge paydeal was based on, and he won't do now. None of which is to say he's not a very good player - he's just not world class. Over the last 18 months, his performances for United have been erratic - he's won some games, but in others he has wasted large amounts of possession - which is a real issue when you are as big a focal point in a team as he is. I suspect, if he was fully motivated, he would improve because he would become less erratic. I don't think his best performances will get better, and I don't think there will be more of them, but his poor performances will probably stop.

He's been with us 9 years now. He, for a lot of that 9 years, has been superb. But I think, for his own sake and wellbeing, he needs a change.

Last season, in terms of on-field performances, Carrick, RVP, Rafael and de Gea were all better than Rooney and more important to the team. I think there's arguments to be made for Evans and Ferdinand as well. That's my view from watching the team, not just taking in stats.

My comments were probably unjustified for the prior season, but I do think Valencia was our best player that year.

I do agree with Ed007 that there are players we could more readily afford to lose. But I'm not convinced we could find a system where Rooney would play centre forward week-in week-out while RVP is at the club and, on that basis, if we're going to play him out of position, the loss won't be as acute as people think right now.

For me, the debate over Rooney should be secondary over the need to improve our midfield. We'd be less worried about having Hernandez as our main 2nd choice striker if we had strong options in midfield.

We've lost players before and seen people get melodramatic over it, and then things have turned out OK - RVN, Keane, Stam, Beckham etc. Losing Rooney could give Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha etc. an opportunity to shine that they wouldn't have had otherwise. Or it might be a disaster. We won't know until well after it's happened. But I don't think we should keep him if he doesn't want to stay, and I don't think we should hit the panic button if he does go. We should be much more concerned if we don't strengthen the midfield, irrespective of whether Rooney stays or goes.

DarkLard08

1.) Great post and I totally agree with every word. Players move on however united will continue to win silverware.


2.) DarkLard08

Good post mate! Good to see that you could atleast reasonably justify your comment rather than making a "sheep" like rant. I understand if not agree with a lot of your points.

I just think that we are sending him to the wolves based on one admittedly poor season. A lot of people on here think how many balls he lost, poor touch etc. it is because we watch him as closely as it gets. may be if we did that for player's from other clubs, we would find similar trends. For ex- Lewandowski, you would normally find people here giving a very positive report on how he plays and the fact that he is already world class. I have watched him a fair bit, I have seen him miss as many sitters as he has scored blinders. I have seen him linking up play brilliantly, I have also seen him be selfish and lose the ball or shoot from vague angles. I have seen him conquer all with BvB, I have also seen him look like a muck with Poland.

My point here is if you start observing players closely and literally start counting lost balls or missed passes, you will find not every one is at Xavi's level. INfact take RVP, while he was brilliant, if someone watched closely, his pass completion wasnt the best around. With Rooney, the bandwagon haters tend to dissect every missed pass.

I agree with you, we should actually be having a discussion on our midfield and not Wayne Rooney. I think SAF left behind a bomb and he could have easily avoided it.

Lastly, I will be just fine if Rooney decides to move on, but I will not be naive to say that we are ok without a replacement. He I s a bloody good player if not WORLD CLASS. I haven't heard Rooney or the club say something, so keeping my wits about me and I refuse to believe the "dressing room cancer" thing. Makes no sense to me and its all made up.

We will see what happens and I hope it happens sooner than later.

Deeps.


3.) Deeps, I'm thinking of setting up a support hotline if he goes :)


4.) Deeps

It's a really good point that we watch Rooney more closely than other players, and you're right that we do. But then, good players always get scrutinised more closely than less-good players.

I also don't believe the dressing room comments. At the peak of his Fergie bust-up, one of my friends saw him out at a restaurant with Paul Scholes, for example. He doesn't strike me as being the sort to get involved in that.


5.) Lol Stevie

Will it be toll free? Are you like a cop shrink or something? Anyways me, NoMidfield and Simmo are going to be the first 3 callers. Expect a call from the almighty KLOOT saying, "you see I said this all along".

Deeps.


6.) DL08

You are right mate, better players will be scrutinized. let's just hope we are done with whatever happens sooner than later. I am concerned about our midfield reinforcements to be honest.

Good you made that Paul Scholes point! I could see Jones and Rafael rallying around him during the PL medal distribution ceremony. Then you have people who will use 100 "what ifs" and try to justify him being a bad apple.

Deeps.


7.) KLOOT is lined up to run the hotline covering many subjects (Rooney, American bosses, logistical locations of United 'fans' etc ;).


 

 

24 Jul 2013 09:15:03
Not directly United related, but I can't wait for Suarez to come out and say he wants a move to Arsenal after all his ludicrous comments about being targeted by the media. I don't suppose any Liverpool fans will come on here and admit we were right about him all along, but at least they'll be sick as parrots.

DarkLard08

1.) A Liverpool fan I work with reckons he will want to talk to Arsenal to try and force a bid from Real Madrid


 

 

 

DarkLard08's rumour replies

 

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20 Oct 2015 08:48:08
I like your wording there, Ed002. We always look more of a team with Herrera playing centrally, and he carries a genuine threat from midfield. You'd think LVG would accept one or two losses of possession for what he gives us, especially with the number of defensive players we deploy to clean up any mess.

DarkLard08

 

 

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20 Oct 2015 08:44:47
There have to be question marks over any manager who leaves Herrera out on a regular basis.

DarkLard08

 

 

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31 Aug 2015 21:32:04
Angelred

The closer translation is even more interesting. it's

"Tomorrow it will come true"

DarkLard08

 

 

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31 Aug 2015 18:01:39
IHF

I think de Gea would have gone new contract or not. LVG was only saying he wanted to take a look at things. I don't think it changed anything with the DDG situation.

Valdes deserved to be frozen out. ADM didn't do anything to prove himself and had an easy way out. Falcao wasn't close to being good enough. Januzaj hasn't progressed and needs regular football. Rooney isn't the player he was.

In that respect, it's hard to question LVG. However, where I would question him is the desire to bring in big names last season - this destabilised us. I'd also question his need to make all his changes at once. And some of the players he's brought in are just water carriers (Blind, Rojo. ). And has he really given the existing squad players a chance?

It's all a bit chaotic and unseemly and not at all what we've been used to.

DarkLard08

 

 

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30 Aug 2015 22:11:20
Seems more believable than the Austin rumours.

We do really need some pace up front to stretch defenders and create room for players like Mata and Herrera to operate in.

Shame Jay Rodriguez got injured - it would have been interesting to see where he would have got to.

DarkLard08

 

 

 

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05 Feb 2016 08:35:19
I don't think Blind's passing is anywhere near good enough to play that role, and his positioning is sometimes suspect. His attitude is great but he's a squad player - no more.

Carrick himself looks lost nowadays if the opposition have pace in midfield - he kind of reminds me of Scholes in his final two years. Against the right opposition, he can still run the game, but he can be a liability in other games.

For me, I still see central midfield as Herrera plus one moving forward - it's just finding the one.

DarkLard08

 

 

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31 Aug 2015 17:45:53
Hi Ed004

Hadn't seen that. I guess there's a short short list of players to look at in reality.

Big money, but if we're in a world where De Bruyne costs £55m, well.

DarkLard08

 

 

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AJH

I think you make a really good point about last season. You can count on the fingers of one hand the games where we played well for 90 minutes. More often than not, it was a 20 / 30 minute burst and strong defending that saw us through.

The biggest problem so far this season is the defence looks shot to pieces. It's easy to talk about midfield and attack - and both need improvement - but all good teams are built from a solid foundation and if the defence isn't functioning, you often see issues further up the pitch as a result.

We all knew Evra was an issue before Moyes arrived (except perhaps Fergie. ) DM's also been missing our best defender from last season most of this season in Rafael. Ferdinand played well the first 2/3 of last season but it looks like his legs have gone. And we've got the Carrick of 11/12 instead of the Carrick of 12/13. Some of those things DM has no control over, although he did have a hand in mucking up bringing in reinforcements over the summer that would have made a difference.

I hope we keep our heads over the next 4 to 6 weeks, because I'm confident we'll come through the worst of this and recover to top 4 by the end of the season, allowing time for the rebuilding the team needs to take place before next season.

DarkLard08

 

 

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Martinez is nowhere near ready for a club the size of United.

DarkLard08

 

 

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Draig

Fergie was after Baines. Both Arsenal and Chelsea have rumoured to have considered Fellaini in the last couple of years. And I suspect RVP's body language is as much about Rooney as anything else.

DarkLard08