30 Oct 2016 17:29:54
Yesterday was just one of those days, any other day we could of and probably would have scored 3 or more goals and stuffed them. We had more shots on goal than than any other team in any game EPL since opta started recording that data.

So drawing a line under that game let's look at the bigger picture. We are now 10 games into the season and we now have a better picture of how this season will likely pan out.

Before the season kicked off there was a massive build up that this was to be Pep vs Mourinho, Purist vs Pragmatist, City vs United. In reality we aren't ready to compete with City and as it looks like a few others are ahead of us too.

The reality is that we have been in transition for over three years and due to the constant chopping and changing we will continue to be transitioning for a while longer yet. There are only 7 players in our squad who were part of Sir Alex's last title winning team (De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Carrick, Young and Rooney) . Of which only De Gea can claim to have a long term future at the club, and let's not forget if the fax machine hadn't broken down then he wouldn't be at our club anymore.

We then had Moyes bringing in Fellaini and Mata, he brought his ideas and his style. He wasn't able to step up and crumbled under the pressure, the players turned against him and his fate was sealed. The issue was he wasn't a big enough character, for the first time in our history the players felt they had more power than the manager. A dangerous precedent was set.

LvG followed with the hope his character and ego along with his ability to manage big players and a winning CV. There were shoots of progress, but unfortunately his methods and his abrasive and unyielding nature created as many problems as his strong leadership solved. We also saw a massive turn over in playing staff, any kind of cohesion, style or team spirit was lost. The team looked like a group of individuals because they were. LvG's robotic system of constant recycling of the ball covered over a lot of the cracks caused by the total ripping up of the team. Eventually it became so clear that LvG wasn't going to be a success that the axe had to fall.

Now we have Mourinho, proven EPL manager, strong character and a winning CV. There are a few question marks mostly his playing style not being within keeping of the club and whether his meltdown last season was a one off or the beginning of the end of his career in that top bracket of managers.

But the issues he has to deal with include a fracture squad that have limited understanding of each other, no cohesive style and a total loss of confidence. There are obvious personel problems as well, our defence is shocking, with arguably only Bailly and Shaw long term options in defence. Then there is the Rooney conundrum, as a player he still has a part to play, the question how big of a role he should have. He is obviously in decline and it makes no sense building the team around him, but will he accept a lesser role? can he adapt to a new role in a new style?

So with all these issues a title challenge was never likely to happen, this will take at least a season to work though these issues and start being able to compete with the top teams, a top four place really is what the target should be. Any sort of title challenge would be a bonus. We have real competition in the likes of City, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea who will all be challenging for either the top four or the title. And we can't dismiss a surprise team like Everton maybe having a real push after all Leicester are the defending champions.

That is the reality, what the team really needs now is our support not our criticisms. We are far from the finished article, so let's stop judging our performances as if we are.


1.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 17:52:43
it was always going yo be a tight league this year .
i still fully expect us to be there or there about .
i don't agree with this transition stuff, teams buy players get new managers all the time, that's football.


2.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 18:22:15
Pretty much word for word agree shappy, keep th faith it'll happen for us.


3.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 19:50:16
No team is the finished article, everyone is always looking to improve where they can. What makes us immune and so special not to be critiqued, especially considering the HUGE advantages we have over other teams due to our previous commercial and football successes?

We should be judging based on our squad strength, manager experience, infrastructure and prestige - all of those indicate we should be doing much better already.


4.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 20:24:38
Beast

What do you want to do if your standards are not met?

We should also judge on the position we are in due to recent history. The decline under SAF through lack of investment and then appointing who we did. We should consider and be judged on the starting point as well and for Jose that was not good at all.


5.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 20:37:20
I agree partly about the transition and the title is going to be too much for us this season. that's understandable in the main part.

But there is absolutely no reason for a club with our resources to not finish in the top 4 come the end of the season and get champions league football back.


6.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 20:43:20
It's a hard watch at times but conte will have Chelsea there or there about season with a team that struggled last season . That's a manager who has never managed in the epl and has them playing a different style and formation .
If pep an other manager who has never managed in the epl doesn't keep city top he will be labelled a failure.

Southampton lose there best players and managers year after year but continue at the same level.

Over the last 3 year no club in the world has spent as much as United, we have top players we have a top manager, we should be looking to win the league .
The rest is just excuses.


7.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 20:44:25
Red Man - Complain, bring it to peoples attention. Otherwise we get what we have now, accepting of average. Weak arguments, desperation and a rapidly declining prestige. Too many of our fans rely on hope, it's why LVG got far longer than he should have.

Ultimately we all know that things have been very bad since SAF left and things were going downhill during his last few seasons. BUT we have had massive capabilities/ opportunities to rectify the trajectory, we have failed every time. That needs to be called out, if not we get what we are getting.

0-0 against Burnley, arguably our best league performance of the season. It's pretty horrific that we aren't going mental, but the bar is so low now, even people like me are grateful to be able to watch a game with some chances in it for once!

It's a sad state of affairs and my standards aren't being anywhere near met (which is why we are being laughed at by our rivals), are your standards being met? Before you start this isn't the early 80's anymore, we are a different animal now, although for some reason we act like we are some kind of underdog - we should be top dog! I'm frankly sick of us trying to set the bar so low, and jumping on anybody that expects a club with all our power to be doing better.

It's the same mentality that get's rid of school sports days, or gives prizes for taking part. We aren't Arsenal however much some people want to kid themselves we are.

By the way, I think our starting point was light years ahead of Watford's, who are level with us and much more entertaining to watch! But keep making excuses for the club mate if it makes you feel better, keep feeding the decline.


8.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 20:47:44
Also at the moment the top 3 are on the same points I think the league will be very close .
If your top 4 you will be in the title race imo.

Has any current manager got more experience of winning the EPL than Jose?


9.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 21:39:42
Beast

Sorry but complaining got us exactly where over the last few years? Moyes got appointed whether we liked it or not

Keep feeding the decline? I know what decline looks like having supported since 68, I warned about it on here after they appointed Moyes, If the directors of the club are not ambitious then we are doomed.

Watford? It's where you finish that counts not where after 10 days

Believe me after the early seventies my standards are very high but I know that we now have a manager who has the requisite experience and if it doesn't happen for him then we need to look at the clubs structure. A manager with his CV deserves more than 10 games before organised complaining starts.


10.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 21:52:47
Now that was a good thread to read. I find myself agreeing with Shappy, but Beast puts in a really good shout! I wish I had all the answers. It pains me to see us where we are now, but I do think we are close to clicking as a team. The signs are there, one or two more games and the lion will roar once more!

Sorry. I've been drinking again!


11.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 22:18:46
Red Man - I'm not advocating releasing the hounds/ planes on JM, nowhere near yet. It doesn't have to be extreme. I just wish we could assess a game and call it what it is, or call 10 league games what they are - not good enough despite all the excuses (BS ones and legit ones) .

I don't know where we, Watford, Arsenal etc will finish. What I do know is that 99.99999% of people would have said we would look better and be better placed at the start of the season to where we are now. No neutral or even Man Utd hater would expect us to be level with Watford by this point - hence my dissatisfaction.

Rome wasn't built in a day as the French used to say, but I was expecting better by now. Obviously there are a lot of problems, which is why I am happy to be patient, but it doesn't mean we should shut up on here or "wait and see" forever, we have to pass constant assessments, so that we have constant benchmarks. Sleeping for 3 years and waking up to find that we are in the same boat is not good enough.

Anyway, we all want the same thing. It's too easy to say "wait and see", what's the point in anything if we apply that mindset to things we are passionate about.


12.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 22:29:04
Agree with Red Man. Stop panicking. Give it time. SAF needed time. We were lucky he was'nt sacked early.
Bit more support would be good on here. The live chats would be better too if a few would stop joining in.

This is a supporters site. Whiners and moaners are not supporters in my eyes.

Close at the top means there are a lot of good teams which makes our league the best in the world so be proud of that. Win it and you know you've won something. Not like the Mickey Mouse league they have where I live.


13.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 22:50:12
Seems to boil down to a feeling of self entitlement we have after winning for so long. This is football now. All clubs will win fewer games and trophies with increased money and competition across the sport here and aboard.


14.) 30 Oct 2016
30 Oct 2016 23:12:15
It's so arrogant of people to come on here and say people aren't true fans for voicing their opinion on a Man Utd fan website. I say if you are bothering to come on here then you must be a fan, irrespective of your current feelings about how we are performing.

Who gave you the right to call yourself more of a fan because you want to be REALLY patient, where does it say being a fan means only talking when things are great and keeping quiet during bad times? There is a balance in everything. Too much patience leads to big problems, same the other way around.

Maybe those fans constantly calling for "excessive" patience, are lesser fans because they are happy to tolerate underachievement without any clue as to whether or not it will turn around - maybe you would suffer for eternity for fear of seeming disloyal, yet in a perverse way that patience is allowing the rot to continue. It's the same as those parents that see no wrong in their kids bad actions, often those kids end up spoiled and the parents end up being taken for granted as a way of thanking them! It's weak and can be very counter productive - how do you know where to improve if you are afraid to talk or think about weaknesses?

Fortunately I don't subscribe to name calling in order to try and make a point!

Man Utd should be a force to be reckoned with, we shouldn't let the club be hijacked by passivism, exactly why we have no leadership on the pitch and non of us are going crazy about a 0-0 against Burnley at home. We have been subdued, we need Jose to galvanise us, get the club moving again, change the vicious spiral we have found ourselves in. He isn't doing that so far, but he may.

In terms of the league being very competitive, did you not enjoy the title races we used to have between us and somebody else? We kept upping the anti and left the nearly men for dead, so that it was always us and some would be challenger. The reason the league is competitive now is not because the standard has risen, it's because we have weakened to their level! It's never nice to fall from grace and to do so shrugging your shoulders is a sad indictment in my eyes.