22 Sep 2020 10:53:44
Red Man,

There was a line in a reply you posted yesterday that I thought was interesting.

"real change will only happen when there is a change of ownership, a change of focus and aim. "

How do you see that happening? The club is currently valued between £3.6-3.8Bn. Who has 4bn to spend to buy our club, and what would they get for that investment.

Well in the past 10 years the club has spent just shy of 1bn on transfer fees, this doesn't even take into consideration the agents fees which could easily run into hundreds of millions as we paid Mino Riola 28m to sign Pogba alone. While Sancho's agent apparently wants 50m.
The club has also spent 1Bn on debt repayment, while wages are in excess of 120m a year meaning over 1Bn again has been spent on wages.

So new owners could be expected to pay 4 billion to buy the club then a further 3 billion in debt repayment, wages and transfer fees over the next 10 years.

While during that time the money the Glazers have taken out of the club in wages and dividends is around 150m over 10 years, or around 15m a year.

Who on earth do you see spending 4 billion on an asset that costs between 350-500m a year in running cost, to pay out a measly 15m a year. It would take them a life time to see any return on their investment unless they could find a buyer, which looking at the numbers involved seems unlikely.

The truth is that there are very very few people who could buy our club. People like Jeff Bezos who probably has no interest. Or maybe a bid from someone like the Saudi's who are really only interested in using the club to improve their public image. But as we have seen with the recent Newcastle bid that wouldn't be as straight forward.

Like it or not we are likely stuck with the Glazers for at least the foreseeable future and likely a long way beyond that.

So any change will have to happen with them at the helm and not by just hoping they sell up.

For that to happen the focus of our anger and discontent needs to be focused at those higher up and not just the fall guy (manager) .

1.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 11:11:31
Shappy your figures are wrong and show a complete lack of understanding on business and on takeover structure. / valuations / ongoing business overheads etc.

2.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 11:21:03
Ken does his best Ed002 impression 😁.

3.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 11:41:08
Better to clarify in case anybody reads that nonsense and believes it.
Those numbers are so inaccurate and so far from reality its worth pointing out.

4.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 11:54:26
That post made the owners look good somehow.

5.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 11:55:56
Not sure you understand what your liabilities are once you buy an asset and what the sellers liabilities are before selling an asset. My opinion is if the club were to go on the market tomorrow at 3billion -4 billion -there would be a line-maybe not a long one of people willing to buy it, the sort of people who aren't looking for a profit each year and would earmark a good few quid each year for players -call it a vanity project or a rich mans plaything but such people exist.

6.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 12:08:22
If someone bought the club i'm sure they would have enough money to pay the debt off or would the previous owners still be liable so the offer would include the money to clear the debt.

7.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 12:43:54
Mukesh Ambani, indian billionaire.
Networth-80 bn
Owner of Mumbai Indians franchise in IPL and many other sports teams.
Will run the club superbly.

8.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 12:52:20
The gospel according to shappy. He always implies his opinion is fact when even his facts are not facts most of the time 😂.

9.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 13:01:13
It would depend on the structure of the deal Bolger mate, but the total valuation would likely be inclusive of liabilities which will be included in the total purchase price, these debts could be restructured cleared or indeed increased by any potential buyer.

10.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 13:02:42
Shappy

Yet another post supporting the idea the owners are not that bad.

There are risks changing owners, another leveraged buyout, asset strippers but there are opportunities. Not every owners takes dividends, do City or Liverpool’s owners take dividends? Some look at a bigger picture.

Some of your pie in the sky numbers seem made up to show those who are less able with numbers, that the best option is to stay as we are with the present owners and the manager.

If you want to talk numbers remember I can read a Balance sheet so know when you talk nonsense and the above effort was feeble.

11.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 13:14:21
You pay off your mortgage before you move into another house. It's not rocket science unless we were to be adminitration.

12.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 13:44:19
Mukesh Ambani (Reliance in general) would corrupt the club worse than the Glazers.

13.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 13:51:41
Shappy surely its worth replying to and maybe apologising to the '4' extremly gullible people that agreed with you but never bothered to post, for hopelessly misleading them with your claptrap😂😂.

14.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 14:13:54
Red Man, I'm not defending the owners at all. Just pointing out that we are likely stuck with them for the long haul. They were supposedly going to sell the club in 2017, yet here we are 3 years later and they are still here.

The reality is that they most likely aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

As for the figures, you yourself was on here last week saying that in the last 10 year 1 billion had been spent on debt repayment. So you are either saying that figure you said was bull or it must be one of the other figures. You have an issue with. Well the 1 billion in transfer fees is well acknowledged, it was at 940m or there or there abouts since 2013 before we signed Bruno and DvdB. I said over the past 10 years would include the last three years of Sir Alex's time. So it's safe to say we have spent over 1 billion on fees.
I appreciate the agents fees are pure speculation, the money Mino received for the Pogba transfer was in the press (speculation all the same, but probably not a million miles away) .
Which just leaves the wages. 200k per week would equate to 10m per year. Players like Mata, Sanchez, Pogba, Di Maria, Falcao and DDG have all been on deals of at least 200k per week, in some cases much more. While players like Smalling, Jones, Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Matic and Fred are all on deals of 100k per week or more. The player wage bill alone is comfortably over 100m a season, which would equate to more than 1 billion over 10 years. That doesn't include coaching staff (Jose was on a 12m a year deal) plus the other staff at the club. So again 1 billion over 10 years is a conservative estimate.

The truth is that the club have since 2010 spent at least 1 billion in transfer fees, at least 1 billion in dept repayment (your figures), at least 1 billion in wages, plus whatever they have spent on travel arrangements, agents fees, legal fees, taxes, dividends, etc.

In theory the club makes the money to cover all of these bills (although we are delaying on debt repayment to find transfers this summer) . However, if the finances in football were to drop, say because fans can't go to matches, or a drop in the value of TV deals then either the owners would have to pick up the tab (100% not happening with our current owners) or the club would need to cut costs, with that being in transfer fees and wages the most likely to be cut first.

I'm not happy with the Glazers, but I live in the real world where I know wearing a green and gold scarf won't scare them in to selling the club, also I appreciate that we would need a buyer with deep pockets. And there are very few billionaires who are billionaires because they spend huge sums of money on assets that won't give them a sizable profit.

If there was scope for commercial expansion with the club, potential new areas of growth then maybe someone might be tempted. But we've pretty much maxed out our earning capacity, we've had more partners than Georgie Best. Every item that you could slap a Manchester United badge on has been done. Until a European super League comes along with a greater earnings potential than the EPL then we are at capacity.

Rule number one of investment, you don't buy high. Meaning we are looking for an owner who is prepared to invest 4 billon of their own money in something that won't pay off in financial terms. You are looking for a needle in a haystack.

15.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 14:18:46
thanks Ken.

Evra's video where he said the glazer loves the club, yet is allowing ex bankers to run footballing matters.

im still shocked that a dof from another club had to contact an ex player to get him to tell judge to answer his phone.

ridiculous.

16.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 14:33:39
700m debt?

17.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 15:10:25
Any valuation at the moment must be affected by the uncertaintu caused by the C.V. virus. While the seats are not filled and the merchandise is not selling - the revenue generated by the club is very small whilst the outgoings are large, Not many investors will be tempted to buy a club as big as United in this situation.

18.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 17:50:22
Im not defending him at all but maybe judge didn't want to talk to that person. If someone keeps ringing me and I've no interest in talking to them ill ignore the calls. We don't context of that particular case. But we do know they are not doing a good job on recruitment for sure.

19.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 18:03:27
Shappy, you really do talk out of your chutney.
You write these very, very long posts. Well written and we'll structured TBF. But complete fiction.
I know you are a full time student - I'll take a stab that you are studying journalism?

20.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 18:23:03
Shappy

In simple terms someone is unlikely to buy the club for the dividends are they? They are more likely to buy as a symbol, or as an asset in the hope of appreciation in value. The Glazers want asset value increase but seem to want the dividends as well. Do you think the Saudis for example, would be scrambling round for a few million in dividends? You won’t answer about City or Liverpool owners who don’t take dividends. Why not?

Someone might buy the club with a view to asset value increase in future. You said you don’t buy high, how do you know this is high? You don’t.

21.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 18:52:55
Surely if you buy a club of the size of United, you look at all figures. The Glazers are responsible for any debts, therefore it comes off any valuation? United as they stand would be good value for £3 Billion with no debt, £2 Billion with debt. Not many clubs that expensive.

22.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 19:44:17
Surely the glazers have to settle their debts if they sell us? I'd love for a takeover, but cannot see it happening anytime soon. They would be better off investing some cash, getting us challenging or winning trophies and cashing out.
We as fans are in a lose lose situation at the minute, if we stop buying kits and merchandise it makes the club suffer not the owners, maybe we have to our green nd gold out.

23.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 19:59:17
It’s the clubs debts, not the Glazers.

I doubt very much the Glazers have any cash to invest, they haven’t put a penny in so far.

24.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 21:07:48
I think there's a whack of people on here who don't read all or any of the post, but hit like because they see the poster's name, and assume they'll agree with whatever they've said. Not just this site. Social media in general. People have short attention spans these days, and Shap's posts test their endurance 😁.

25.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 21:14:51
There is more than one type of potential buyer -someone with a fortune of 10 billion buying the club for 3-4 billion will have a completely different expectation than someone like an Arab or an Asian industrialist with a fortune of 80 billion who couldn't care less if the club he bought for 4 billion is worth 3.8 or 4.2b 18 months later .

26.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 21:17:59
Redman but they brought us on loan essentially as have saddled us with this debt, its their debt. Surely they have some responsibility or a fans group could take it over on a mortgage essentially, just like the glazers have bit without the massive payouts.

27.) 22 Sep 2020
22 Sep 2020 22:24:05
Danny

No, a leveraged buyout put the debts on the clubs name, the Glazers own the club but have no personal responsibility for the debt at all. It is the clubs debt. A fans group cannot just take over a mortgage, the Glazers own the club, therefore the asset.