04 Dec 2020 11:36:38
It's never a good sign to have a divided fan base and following every defeat the pressure on our beleaguered manager intensifies.

Ole is continually fighting fires and he finds himself in charge of a Club on the brink of civil war.

Some will not forgive the decision to withdraw Fred and use this as an example of his sheer incompetence and neglect. A manager that can't even react to the obvious as it unfolds before his eyes.

Of course this mindset ignores the brilliance of Neymar or the wastefulness of Martial. At the highest level football is always decided by the finest of margins. The truth can often be subtle and for a 10-15 period either side of HT the chance was there to blow PSG away. Fernandes misplaced an easy pass to play in Cavani for a tap in on the stroke of HT and Martial missed two easy chances to put us in control. In the big moments, in the big games, the big players must deliver. These were not half chances but easy opportunities that you would expect most professionals to convert.

Ole confounded these mistakes by not reacting to the PSG change in shape or withdrawing Fred who was walking a disciplinary tight rope! Mistakes on the pitch and on the sidelines is never a recipe for success and PSG can think themselves lucky for some hopeless finishing and naive management.

When I analyse Utd I see a squad riddled with inconsistent players all capable of making terrible individual mistakes at any given moment led by an inexperienced manager often lacking the courage of his own convictions.

I also see a squad brimming with promise and talent. Players genuinely capable of producing moments of brilliance and playing some thrilling and exciting football.

The problem is a winning team cannot be brilliant one moment and hapless the next. A winning team cannot have a CB pairing that daren't be left exposed or incapable of defending in 1v1 situations. A winning team cannot have attacking players that blow hot and cold or a manager that still hasn't settled on a formation or style of play.

I don't think anyone could reliably predict the fortunes of Manchester United at the moment. We are a team both capable of going on a winning run or a team equally capable of enduring long periods without winning.

Has there been progression or stagnation I'm not sure but the consistent inconsistency looks set to continue and the debate rages on!


1.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 12:08:57
Win on saturday and a result on tuesday will calm everyone down.

Tuesday can't be overstated how big a game it is, going back into the europa league will rightly show the lack of progress that is being made under ole. Combine that with no clear style of play, i could see our season petering out like 15/ 16 and 18/ 19 did.

Fact is no one can argue that this squad is not good enough to make the knockout stages of the champions league and be in the top 4 of the premier league.


2.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 12:24:36
How is that a fact DSG? We absolutely should be good enough to finish 4th and play last 16/ QFs.


3.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 12:30:57
DLIB

I think this is the most divided I have ever known the fan base in over 50 years of supporting. There have always been disagreements over managers and players. I remember debating about OFarrell, being gutted about the Doc, about Sexton and even Atkinson, but this is far worse.

The issue here is emotion, the manager has stirred massive emotion in some, he is a hero. I was behind that goal in 99 and still regard him as a playing hero, however, because of that emotional tie, people are taking extreme entrenched positions. There is no logic to defending poor decisions, yet it is done.

The division will continue until Ole is either sacked or succeeds, the frustration will grow yet.


4.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 12:37:40
Its odd how reactive we all are. When the group was pulled if we looked at it we saw the top team in France and one of the top teams in Germany along with the Turkish champions.

I think most of us at that point thought it quite possible for us to finish 3rd in the group behind PSG and RB Leipzig.

Yet now if that happens it would be seen as a disaster only because with one game to go we have it in our own hands to finish top of the group.

The situation changes and so do our opinions on the situation.

Personally in this season I'd rather finish 4th than 3rd in the UCL group. A packed season of two games a week with little to no pre-season stuck playing Europa League football puts us at a huge disadvantage in the league.

For me I'd rather be in the UCL or nothing and focus on the league and domestic cups.

Ole made a mistake in not taking Fred off last night.

The ref made a bigger mistake in both not sending him off in the first half, and then sending him off in the second for a fair tackle.

While the players made several individual mistakes both in defence and in attack.

As pointed out, Telles and Maguire lost their man in the lead up to the first goal. McTominay and Maguire lost them for Marquinhos's goal. Then Maguire lost his man for the third time for the third goal. All three taps in due to poor defending.

While Bruno picked the wrong pass for what would have been a clear goal for Cavani and Martial missed two almost sitters.

While some proclaim this group of players good enough to win the league, I have serious reservations over the consistency of these players. We have some fantastic promise in some players. But they are as likely to fluff their lines as they are to blow the opposition away. As we have seen in the UCL this season, impressive wins against PSG and Leipzig, and silly errors leading to defeats to PSG and Istanbul.


5.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 12:39:26
Great post DLIB. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. My feeling is that Ole is not the man long term but he has done a really good job in remoulding the squad and at least attempting to give us some identity. We should be grateful for his commitment to this project. It's not going to happen but in an ideal world he would realise he's not quite ready to take us to the next level, step aside for someone who is and then, perhaps, come back to us in a decade or so when he's been elsewhere and earned his stripes. I'm dreaming of course, he'll continue to get out of jail when his job is threatened, cling onto his job for another six months then be sacked acrimoniously at the end of the season.


6.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 12:39:26
DLIB,

Very good post mate and I agree with all of it, it is great to see some balance on here as I think it is needed rather than the sniping at each other.

Not sure I have seen it mentioned on here but there is a lot of confirmation bias within the fan base at the moment, people waiting for the manager to make the mistake so they can jump on to other people and say they were correct, he made a mistake with the Fred thing so he is a terrible manager etc. There is also the same thing happening the other way when we win a game, people choosing to ignore the mistakes to say 'well we are 5 points off the top with a game in hand so he must be doing ok'. Both are valid points and 2 very different sides to an argument between people who at the end of the day all want the same thing, and that is success for the club. We wouldn't be on here arguing if we didn't care that's for sure.

DSG,

I do think you underestimate how deep the 'hatred' of Ole is in some quarters if you think a couple of wins will calm people down, many have made their mind up that he is useless and that we are going backwards, if we win both games it will be because West Ham played badly and because Upamecano was missing for RB, just the way it is on here now. I put the work hatred in speech marks as I am not sure it is that, just a deep disappointment that he is our manager.


7.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 12:49:40
SO72,

That is exactly what DSG said mate.


8.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 13:52:46
GDS, no 'hated' from me. I just think Solksjaer is too inexperienced to be manager at a club the size of Man Utd, especially in the mess the club is in.

Moreover, I am fed up of defensively minded managers. It's been 8 years now and although the football under Solksjaer is better than it has been under previous managers, his instincts are too conservative.

Also the obvious lack of improvement of players both individually and as a unit, inappropriate team selection, poor tactics, and the terrible in game management tell me that he is not the man for the job.


9.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 14:37:17
Manc man hatred is a word gds uses regularly for sensational affect. He even states in his own post that's it probably not hated so inn not sure what reason he has for using the word unless its just sensationalism
I don't know if anybody hates ole at all.
He us not the sort of bloke people hate. Trying hard doing his best.
Shappy psg missed better chances than we did what would the scour have been if both teams converted all their chances. Your stance on this game is pathetic and imo costing you credibility because there is simply no objectivity in your one sided biased view. Honestly mate laughable stance on this laughable and completely deluded imo.


10.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 16:15:47
ken,

Give it a rest, I knew you would come on saying that, that's why I clarified and why i put it in inverted commas, pre-empted the bolloxology.

My point is that people have made their mind up so far one way that it will take more than a couple of decent away results to change people's minds, do you disagree old pal?


11.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 16:22:01
Its seems everyone is entitled to an opinion . Unless its the wrong one.


12.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 16:42:26
Imo he is taking crap jred. Have you an issue with that. He is entitled to his opinion i'm entitled to disagree.


13.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 17:30:43
Ken
The irony of the above, its comedy gold as always.
Reading the page today, the hypocrisy is fantastic.


14.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 17:54:35
Ken, if we win the next 2 games do you think the people who hate Ole being in charge of our club and think he is ‘ruining everything United stand for’ will back off? I don’t.


15.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 18:17:04
Hypocrisy does run rife on this site alright jred 🤣

No they won't GDS, minds have been made up in regards to Ole, I think we just want to see a competent coach in charge. Until then though, I'll just enjoy or not enjoy the rollercoaster.


16.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 18:40:42
Ole's at the wheel 😉.


17.) 04 Dec 2020
04 Dec 2020 21:40:48
Its an interesting question gds2.
I posted after we won 3 games in a row that ole has the chance to change opinion. If he wins 4 or 5 on the bounce it does by credit for a slip or defeat. Getting results just now is vital win 6 on the spin and your in the mix because even Liverpool and city are dropping unexpected points.
I posted that we played well against psg and gave credit to ole after southamton and Everton wins for making good subs and good decisions.
Imo his decisions cost us i didn't slate the players or the performance.
3 or 4 decisions i found odd and they didn't work so the fault lies with him.
Yes martial missed a couple of sitters and we hit the bar but so did they. That happens in every game. So for some of the arguments to suggest if we had taken our chances we would have won can be said for psg too. In fact they would have won by more if we both had taken all our chances.
Ive not been criticle of the team I've been criticle of what i consider to be arguments made that are more bias and blinkered than a paddy cerand match commentary.
Most of the players against psg played write well.
I don't like martial as you know but he did get into 2 great goal scoring positions from wide areas but he is just it out form in front of goal.
Shappy and i are mates if i think he is writing crap ill tell him as he does to me when he feels i do. Some of his arguments today were off the charts today imo😂 I actually thought he was on a wind up at one point.


18.) 05 Dec 2020
05 Dec 2020 01:13:10
I agree with that whole post Ken strangely enough. Genuinely nothing on disagree with.

Oh I do miss Paddy on the commentary though, just wish he reffed some of our games, we would have had 12 penalties a game.