24 Feb 2021 15:45:41
Lot of rumours about Jules Kounde but is he really a good fit for us?

He looks more of an adventurous defender who could drift out of position every now and then and his headed clearances look weak. Plus he isn't too tall and could struggle against teams in the PL which are physical and good in the air. His tackling reminds me about AWB and seems to have good recovery pace but not sure about his all round game.

We probably are better off looking for someone who is tall, good with his positioning, composed, good in the air and who is physically imposing and Nikola Milenković looks like what we need.

What do you think?

{Ed077's Note - Maguire is tall but a poor defender overall. I have been impressed whenever I've seen Kounde play, which admittedly isn't a huge number of times, LPU but Milenkovic isn't a bad shout either if the club has some reservations about Kounde. Whether Kounde is a good fit for us or not is for the scouts go decide.}

1.) 24 Feb 2021
24 Feb 2021 16:07:00
Pau Torres looks like the second coming of Rio on you tube 🤔.

{Ed077's Note - YouTube can go either way. But there seems to be a lot admirers of Pau Torres.}

2.) 24 Feb 2021
24 Feb 2021 17:21:09
Ed077 I agree with you. And I know youtube is not the best way to judge a player but probably you get a glimpse of what the player can offer.

Out of the three Pau Torres is probably the more composed defemder. Milenkovic is more like Vidic I feel and has that no nonsense approach and gets stuck into his opponents and I feel we need someone like that currently at the back who imposes himself and keeps the attackers under check.

And Ed what do you think of David Carmo as an option?

{Ed077's Note - never seen him play to say speak about Carmo. Isn't he at Sporting Braga? If we are going down the very young route than my first choice is going to be Badiashile at Monaco.}

3.) 24 Feb 2021
24 Feb 2021 17:41:06
Ed077 yes Badiashile looks another good option. There seems to be a lot of options at the moment and it's upto us to get it right in the summer.

Hope we don't mess around.

{Ed077's Note - and we so desperately need to get it right if we are to kick on and build upon this season.}

4.) 24 Feb 2021
24 Feb 2021 18:43:01
Ed077 I feel we need two CB's ideally. Everyone knows the weakness of Lindelof and Maguire, we're even seeing oppositions exploiting them.

Pau Torres possesses good height and composure.
Kounde seems to be a beast. Although not that tall, he has a good leap and pace.
It's all about getting the right combination.

{Ed077's Note - ideally two CBS might be needed but the club might not want to block the path for Mengi just yet and other young lads in the academy. Also Maguire cost 80m and will be hard to move him on. So kind of stuck with Harry as well.}

5.) 24 Feb 2021
24 Feb 2021 19:30:33
Dias was the one they should have went for, very good defender. Mad we went for Maguire instead of someone like him, someone who can actually defend.

{Ed077's Note - Mourinho wanted him but the board didn't push hard to bring Dias to the club. Who knows if that move would have worked out for Dias as well as his move to man city has?}

6.) 24 Feb 2021
24 Feb 2021 22:35:29
Harry may have cost 80m but he has been poor I would go for both kounde and Torres.

7.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 01:27:16
Has mcguire ever played right side?

Pau is left footed and a rare thing as a very high quality left footed CB.

I only remember seeing McGuire play left now I think of it.

{Ed077's Note - yes he has. It's only at United that he has been played exclusively as a LCB. For Hull and Leicester he played RCB on many occasions.}

8.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 10:11:12
Maguire always plays on the left of a two for us, with Lindelof always the right of the two. But then when we play 3 at the back, Maguire is central and Lindelof plays on the left, with Bailly on the right. I don't get how Lindelof can play left in a 3 but not in a 2. I'm not at all impressed with either of our first choice CBs, but Maguire is a little held back having to play on the left.

Speaking of which, I couldn't help notice against Newcastle how very one-footed our entire team is. Possible exception of Greenwood. What ever happened to working on your weaker foot? :)

9.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 11:07:27
Maguire has more often than not played as the LCB despite being right footed. I don't think its as big a deal as most people make out. Most LCB's are right footed, and having a left footer there only really offers you a marginal gain when playing out from the back or when being pressed as you will have more of the pitch to easily pass into off your stronger foot. So being left footed is only really beneficial in certain circumstances.

Vidic was one of the best CB's in the EPl while playing LCB and being right footed, Ricardo Carvalho was another as is VvD currently.

Maguire's issues aren't based on him playing left or right CB, its that he ball watches and gets dragged out of position regardless of which side of the pairing he is supposed to be playing on.

He is unaware of where the opposition are and he is unaware of where his teammates are, hence on several occasions he has tackled, blocked and even hauled down teammates when trying to win the ball. He doesn't know who's where or which team they play for, he just blindly bumbles toward the ball in an attempt to stick his sizable frame in between the ball and the goal.

10.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 12:35:45
Shappy your assessment of Maguire does raise the question on how Ole still chooses him as the captain and how come the coaching staff have not been able to make him more aware in games. Is it more fun and games in training rather than intense defensive drills to get it right?

11.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 12:54:14
LPU, do you have a dog? I do and ideally I'd love it if he went to the loo in the toilet then I wouldn't have to take him out when it's raining.

Unfortunately that training is beyond him, he's a smart dog but not smart enough to use a toilet.

Harry Maguire is 27 years old, he has had 10 years training in a professional academy, he has had a further 7 years being coached at professional football clubs, at Sheffield United, Hull, Leicester and United, while he has also been coached by the England coaching staff both as youth and professional level.

In total 17 years of professional coaching from many different coaches, at what point do you just accept he's not bright enough to grasp the concepts the coaches are trying to teach him?

Because like you say it's clear and obvious to us what the issues are, the coaches would have definitely had seen it, and at least a few would have tried to correct it. Yet he still does it.

As for taking the captaincy away from him, he should have done so in the summer after all the stuff in Greece. That was a mistake. But at the same time taking it away would have undermined his confidence. While some might argue the role of captain in modern football is close to a ceremonial role. Maguire has said himself that Matic deals with the discipline, while clearly Bruno is the on pitch leader.

As for why Ole picks him, I'd probably pick Maguire if I was in Ole's position. Not because I rate Maguire but because there just really isn't many other options. Jones? Or maybe we get the gaffer tape out and hope it can hold Bailly together long enough to complete 5 games in a row. Or do we go with Tuanzebe, a player who has also suffered injuries. Scraping the barrel we could give the young and talented Mengi a run. But that would take big balls to drop an 80m signing for an 18 year old academy graduate with no experience at this level.

12.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 13:19:07
Shappy so how much do you rate our coaching staff? Do you think they are excellent?

No matter how much professional training a player gets it's still a re-learning process when you move clubs and you play to different tactics, system and team mates. Factor in the different approach to training by the coaches it's not the same. What you do in training should reflect on the pitch most of the times if properly coached which doesn't seem to be the case.

By your assessment Maguire should be doing really great in training every time that he is undroppable except that his training doesn't translate onto the pitch.

13.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 15:11:11
LPU, I haven't been coached by our current coaching staff so I have no idea how good they are or what they are doing in training. Which unless someone on here is a player at the club then we are all in the same boat as that one.

I never really rated Mike Phelan as a coach, when he was Sir Alex's assistant we played some very boring cautious football. Yet Sir Alex rates him highly, so who's opinion of the guy should carry more weight?

McKenna was very highly rated young coach when we poached him from Spurs, he did well with the youth set up and has been promoted to help bridge the gap between the youth set up and the first team. Judging by the number of academy graduates who have been given a debut (14 so far) under Ole then it seems to be going well.

Carrick was praised by both LvG and Jose as a future top coach for the way he understands the game.

So these guys have had some pretty big recommendations, and by people who have seen them work close up.

Are they any good at their job? I dunno.

As for Maguire's terrible ball watching and more reading of the game, this is stuff I coached ten year olds to not do. Some pick it up fairly quickly, some take a little while to get it, and some just don't have the capacity to learn it. They play without thought and just do, play on instinct. Some do okay with that, others are just headless chickens.

If at the age of 27 having had 17 years of professional coaching from people far better and more qualified than me coaching him and he still doesn't get it, I doubt he ever will.

My assessment doesn't suggest Maguire is doing great in training, just that of our 5 first team CB's he is one of only 2 who you can rely on to be fit most weeks.

If you have 5 fat unhealthy men and you make them race the one who finishes first isn't necessarily a great sprinter, he's just the best of a bad bunch. Put him up against the best at the Olympics and he'll embarrass himself.

Training no matter who does it has its limitations, its not possible to coach a bad player into a world class player. If it was then we wouldn't bother having transfers, you'd just pick 11 average guys off the street and make them world class players with great coaches.

The reason most of us aren't getting 200k a week playing for United isn't because we didn't have world class coaches as kids, but because the ceiling of our ability wasn't high enough.

Maguire has probably has 50-60 professional coaches at least work with him since the age of 7 or 8 in the Sheffield United youth team right the way through his career to now. At what point do we say stop saying it the coaches fault that Maguire is a poor player and just accept that he isn't that good.

14.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 16:06:28
Shappy you still need to train properly to keep your instincts sharp no matter how long you have been training and you need the proper coaches to do that. Do you see any sort of defensive organization at the back? I don't and that itself suggests our defensive coaching is not that great.

Maguire may not be a top player but a proper coach would be able to get the best out of him. What I am saying is Maguire/ Lindelof are just part of the problem that also includes our coaching. You just cannot absolve the responsibility of Ole and the coaching staff and just blame the players for consistent mistakes at the back.

15.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 17:00:00
LPU, I suppose it all comes down to what you see. I have worked at youth level coaching, and I specialised in defensive set up.

I don't see a great deal wrong with how we set up, bar the fact that our players make too many individual errors.

Our full backs tuck in to make a narrow back four, with only one full back pushing forward at a time and the other staying back. This could be considered defensive or cautious, yet with two CB's who aren't the quickest having once full back alongside them makes sense. Often the full back who pushes further forward is Shaw, but his starting position just like AWB's on the other side is more on the inside channel rather than the outside channel. Its a narrower position, the full back will then look to play a one two with the winger and move from inside to outside taking the wide position looking for the return ball. Doing so forces the opposition full back to go with the runner which can open up space for the winger/ wide player. If they leave the runner then a quick pass and we are in behind.

Our midfield is interesting, neither Fred or McTominay are natural holding players, yet both start deep and sit covering the centre of defence. Often a one two will be played with Maguire to allow him to break the press as he steps forward. The issue with playing two more natural box to box/ shuttler players in a double pivot is that often they forget to pick up the midfield runner. We often concede goals to opposition midfielders making late unmarked runs into the box. That is down to not having a natural CDM. This happens much less when Matic plays, but he doesn't have the legs to play every game.

Our defensive shape tends to be deep and narrow, mostly due to a lack of pace and mobility in our back line. If we played higher then a simple over the top ball could undo us fairly easily.

We don't actually concede many goals from open play and when we do it tends to be either from an individual error or from our midfield not tracking runners.

Where we struggle is at set pieces, now there is two reasons for this. Firstly, we have no one taking charge of the situation. DDG isn't very vocal, nor is he comfortable coming out to collect high balls hit in the danger alley around the 6 yard box. So with DDG not coming out, or communicating there is a lack of command of the box. The next issue is that Maguire is very poor in these situations, too often he watches the ball and even gets dragged towards it. He isn't aware of who is where and charges around like a bull in a china shop. The way he headed the ball back into the danger area then chased after it and hauled Luke Shaw to the ground as he was about to clear it allowing Spurs to score might have been the most calamitous piece of defending I have ever seen at a professional level. The sad thing is that it is not an isolated incident.

Some people want to blame the zonal marking, but in truth zonal marking is the better of the two. And in our case it would make little to no difference. The problem we have with zonal marking is that Harry gets drawn out of his zone because he is watching the ball. Leaving a huge space un marked, play the ball in there and someone can shoot unopposed.

However, if you decided to man mark then Harry will still get drawn to the ball and leave his player unmarked and the same situation occurs. While man marking systems work both ways. If you are man marking the opposition then they by design are marking you. Meaning if you win the ball then your player is marked as is all their passing options. Meaning your best bet is to just boot it out, which nearly always means you lose possession and the opposition can launch another attack. Zonal marking means that once you win the ball you are more likely to a an unmarked player to pass to and maybe launch a counter attack yourself.

So we have a clear shape, and tactical plan. While for the most part it works and we limit the opposition to limited chances from open play, while we are also the top scorers.

We concede goals from two main avenues, midfield runners not being tracked, and from individual mistakes of which Harry Maguire is the biggest culprit.

16.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 18:33:25
Shappy so when individual errors happen consistently who takes the responsibility? What do you think the coaching staff are seeing and doing in training? Are they not aware of a player's abilities, weakness and how they perform in training and just let them get away in training?

If the coaching staff can't improve the players but are intent on playing them for whatever reason then the team needs to be coached to at least be more organized and play as a unit. I am really not seeing that especially defensively.

{Ed014's Note - well done you for reading those replies!

17.) 25 Feb 2021
25 Feb 2021 18:54:14
LPU, who takes responsibility for individual errors? I'd imagine the individual.

I don't for one second think that our coaches are seeing these errors and thinking "sod it, we'll leave that as it is".

However, it's not easy to improve players who make fundamental mistakes over and over again. They just don't learn.

I mean you could just play 10 men behind the ball to cover for those errors, but I suspect if they did that you'd complain about that.

18.) 26 Feb 2021
26 Feb 2021 05:03:33
Ed014 thanks but you probably need to appreciate Shappy's persistence to keep going with his replies.

Shappy individual errors on a regular basis isn't just down to the individual alone. There is no chance that the coaches don't see whether a player is prone to mistakes or not during training unless they are not good enough to notice that.

It's even more criminal if you know the player is not upto par and you still keep playing him even though both Bailly/ Tuanzebe are available on the bench and you play him because of his price tag or for whatever reason it maybe. And he's the captain as well when Bruno has been the best player on the pitch and leads by example.

The manager and coaching staff need to take responsibility for our defensive showing which has been shambolic at times.