16 Mar 2021 05:38:13
Has Ole really made any progress in terms of improving players? Fred and Shaw are the only ones that have improved and the others have either regressed or haven't improved at all. Are we just going to sign more players to improve the squad rather than improving the players and making the squad better?

I do worry for our young talented academy players making their way into the first team with our current coaching setup and Ole as manager. It is really essential for these young ones to get the right coaching to fully fulfill their potential.

We are probably risking not only the future of these young gems but also the future of our club as a whole if we are going to persist with Ole and the current coaching setup.

1.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 06:15:20
Talking ill about Ole in here is blasphemous and is punishable by Mancunian law. There are no coaches out there who can improve this crop of players or take this club forward apart from Ole and if he fails to deliver we blame the board and the owners because Ole can do no wrong. He's "THE CHOSEN ONE"! 🤭🤭.

2.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 07:36:47
Love_United, unfortunate but true. Some people have different view of things and are seeing something which others can't and it looks less likely that things are going to change anytime soon.

3.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 08:01:21
You lot are just sounding bitter .
You would think we where sat mid table.

4.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 08:07:51
rashford and martial had there most prolific seasons last season, mctominay is having his best season at united this season

greenwood last season was banging in the goals.



its clear ole is not the manager to take us further but he has done what he was brought in to do.


now the only question is can he get a trophy.

5.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 08:17:47
Has Rashfords finishing been improved?

Has Tuanzebe developed as a defender?

Has Greenwood progressed from last season?

Has AWB improved going forward, or in his positional sense?

Has Martial improved? After all he was the one heralded by Ole as Lukaku’s replacement.

Has DVB been developed?

6.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 08:21:43
It’s not true. Many on here including myself are vocal about Ole not being good enough.

It’s a legitimate concern to say our youngsters are at risk.

1. Ole plays the same team all the time and on numerous occasions has not used all his subs as he’d rather have a tired favourite on the pitch, preferred to a fresh squad player or youngster. This will come back to bite him eventually.
2. It’s well documented that youngsters have looked to leave as there’s no progression plan to the first team. There are glimpses that’s changing, but time will tell.

A handful on here will argue against the above facts through blind defence of Ole, but they never provide any valid counter argument other than a load of ifs, buts and maybes.

7.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 09:04:07
Wazza they aren't facts
1. Ole has not used his subs on numerous times .
Going on then how many times this season have we not made a sub?
How many times have we made a sub?
How does that compare to other teams? .
2. There is no progressing plan to the first team?
We finished the the real soc game with half the team ex academy players .
Greenwood, rash and mctom are mainstays of the first 11 .
Henderson is breaking into the team

We won at the weekend so I guess people can't really complain about that.
In your own words answer the question with FACTS 😉.

8.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 09:16:17
Redman
Rashford has improved as a player 100% he continues to improve and develop . He is a big player for us and at only 23 years old is one of the best about .
Tuanzabe looks decent young for a centre back is he good enough for the top level, time will tell.
Greenwood, what a talent this boy is still only 19. Lot to still learn but what a talent this boy is going to be .
Awb, I think he is improving will he ever be great attacking fb, i'm not sure . But he is a good player doing well.
Martial had his best ever season last year, poor this season.

Have we improved as a team? 3rd last season 2nd this season the table never lies .
6th under moyes
4th and 5th under lvg
6th 2nd and 10th jose .

We are sat second in the league, a lot better than a few expected and still they look for negatives .
Maybe things aren't as bad as some like to make out .

9.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 09:17:55
Red Man - Has DVB developed. lol is that a serious question?

AWB has improved going forward since he was bought.

Like Bolger said Martial had his most prolific season last year, is that not classed as improving? I don't believe Martial is the answer and i would get rid if we have somebody coming in to replace him.

Greenwood has had loads of personal issues off the pitch this year along with injuries, for god sake the lad is only 19 years old. There has been glimpses over the last few games that his confidence is returning and he's looking a bit more like himself.

Tuanzebe has never had the chance to develop because he's been constantly injured over the last 2-3 seasons.

I can't even believe your asking if Rashford has improved, his all round game has gone to another level. Both Rashford and Bruno are the two best players at United now and we rely massively on both of them for goals and assists.

10.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 09:33:09
Sim I woukd add shaw to rash and bruno.

11.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 09:50:18
jred, I think our fans are worried where Ole is taking us to.
Nobody can deny that Ole has steadied the ship, and did a cultural reboot.
Our work rate has improved considerably when compared to Jose/ LVG era.

However, Ole can answer it by winning a cup or two by end of this season.
The main thing that irks me is the boring football week in week out. Even after almost 2 and a half years in charge, the coaches have not instilled a philosophy or distinct play style. We play like 11 strangers on the pitch even with quality players.

12.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 10:05:39
Jred but they are facts.

How many times have most people commented on here about:
Late substitutions
Not using all 3 substitutions despite campaigning for 5 substitutes
Making 0 (ZERO) substitutes against West Ham
Always leaving Bruno and Rashford on the pitch when games are won
Playing his favourites constantly

Then on to the youth, there's been several young players wanting to leave the club because they don't have a road map.
Our own Ed002 has commented on this a few times.

I might sound like Rafa but there is no arguing with the above. These are things that ACTUALLY happened. You're blind to them and will have nothing said against Ole. On that basis you're just as bad as those at the opposite end of the extreme who refuse to see any good in Ole.

13.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 10:34:16
TrueRedDevil, The problem is though that some people have already made up their minds and there is literally nothing Ole could do at this stage for them to change their minds. They have drawn a line in the sand and shouted too loudly to ever stand their and say they were wrong now.

We saw this last season, people said a top four finish was the minimum and most thought it wasn't possible, Ole finished 3rd and still got slated for it.

This year we might finish second and even if we win a cup, Ole would still be slated by those who have made their mind up.

They'll point to style of play, or lack of player development, or something Ole said in a press conference, or something someone said about Ole 10 years ago in the press.

If Ole wins the treble with us next season playing great football (not that I think he will) then they will still find something to moan about. They'll say he was lucky, other teams played poorly against us, maybe that he's peaked and that we'll need to replace him.

I want to see us win as much as possible, but I don't kid myself thinking it'll change anyone's mind, they are too entrenched in their position to back out now.

14.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 10:40:39
I think that there is a lot in the discussion which is true. It is hard for Ole to integrate the new young players into the team. He has to have a ba backbone that he can rely on until the end of the season.
My main criticism if any is the cast offs are still fringe players because until their contracts come to an end he can't get rd of them. e. g. Mata, Lingard, Jones, Dalot etc. Something wrong with the contracts maybe not necessarily the coaching.

15.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 10:51:11
Wazza
No there not facts
Because people comment on them? Are you joking.

We had the youngest squad in the epl last season, fielded the youngest 11 in the epl last year .

Playing his favourites constantly? You mean playing his best players .

16.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 10:52:36
Shappy very true.

17.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 11:33:17
Ole can show improvement by winning one of the cups on offer. We know Jred and Shappy are what is known on social media as Olesexuals, if we are allowed to say that. Therefore no objectivity is allowed, no discussion, only positive thoughts about Ole.

However, on this discussion, if you just take Rashford, his finishing nor heading has improved, has his left loot improved?

Ole was a striker, but are we seeing a step change in Rashfords technique which you would or should expect being coached by a former striker, now coach being paid millions?

This is not a criticism of Rashford at all, has talent, gives his all and I don’t believe I have ever criticised him. But in line with the OP, it’s open for discussion.

18.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 11:34:13
So are we to believe that Ole hasn't improved any of the players, yet has the team performing better in the league (more points, more goals scored, higher position etc) .

So if the players aren't any better than it must be that his tactics are getting more out of the players. Aha, Ole's a tactical genius.

The reality is we are performing better, either that is because of the managers tactics or because the players themselves have improved.

This is the problem when you decide on a position and refuse to see things from a balanced point of view, you end up arguing black is white.

So which is it?

Is Ole's tactics getting more out of the players, or has Ole improved the players?

19.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 11:43:39
Reman
You don't have any discussion. Your sole focus is ole.
Rashford is 23 and is a fantastic player. And your trying to use him as an example of how ole is a poor coach 🤦‍♂️.
Do you even realise what goes into and how many individuals are actually responsible for coaching a player at the top level .

But again rash is a fantastic player, doing very well, still only 23 and 1 of our best players .
I would say he is developing very well.
and your trying to use him as a negative example. The positives in his development and his ability far outway the negative.

20.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 11:47:09
jred, facts don't need comments to justify them. It's all in the open for everyone to see.

Talking about the youngest squad and all, how many players did Ole introduce into the first team from the academy who are playing regularly? Remember Williams? Tuanzebe doesn't get enough game time even though his fitness has improved and after his showing against PSG Ole should really be blind to not give him more opportunities.

Ole's favourites doesn't necessarily imply best ones - think Maguire/ Lindelof/ Fred/ Martial. Giving opportunities to players who are either out of form or are prone to mistakes constantly is a sign of weakness and favoritism.

21.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 11:59:59
Let's play
"jred, facts don't need comments to justify them. It's all in the open for everyone to see. "

That's your opinion not a fact .
For an example it's your opinion that maguire isn't our best cb .

22.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 12:16:46
Loving team development. Enjoy watching utd again after many years of rubbish. Going in the right direction and not too far away from challenging.

How many players have Chelsea bought for the 10 / wide forward position? But Mount is their best player fantastic for them every week. Mctom, Rash and Greenwood are fantastic for us.

Maybe youth will be the path to the rise to the top again. We have many good young players coming through, and have been investing there for a while.

Enjoy the rollercoaster, consistency is the final stage of success.

{Ed077's Note - sarcasm?}

23.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 12:19:34
shappy, "we are performing better" - in what context? In fact we only perform when a few of our key players do well in the game especially Bruno. And believe this, without Bruno Ole wouldn't have survived this long.

The only Ole tactic I know is counter attack and we have got found out when teams just sit back and let us have the ball. If there is any other tactic that Ole has used then please enlighten me.

Team goals, points and position in the table cannot be a indicator or a measure of individual player's improvement. The player's performances on the pitch is the only thing that will show improvements if any. And except for Shaw/ Fred I don't see much improvement from others at all.

24.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 12:34:55
Jred, you said Jose had us in 10th place when he was sacked. That is a lie. He had us 6th place after 17 games. Funnily enough Ole managed to build on that position and also finish 6th. Amazing manager.

25.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 12:43:58
Olesexual redman? Forget Mc/ Fred more like Mc/ Freud!

26.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 12:48:08
Mumbles it's not a lie it was a mistake .
The fact the only thing you picked up on in the above was jise says a lot.
Bit of a childish post imo . but each to their own.

27.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 12:49:13
jred, you can just put down facts as just other's opinions and brush them away but the truth is out there if you are willing to see.

And with Ole,

Everything good is a fact
Everything bad is a opinion or just a myth

I get it.

28.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 13:02:04
Let's play
"You can just put down facts as just other's opinions and brush them away but the truth is out there if you are willing to see"

Again your getting facts and opinion mixed up .
You don't think maguire is our best cb and tuanzabe is . That's not a fact its your opinion.

29.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 13:09:58
Mumbles I stand corrected this is for you pal👍
Rashford has improved as a player 100% he continues to improve and develop . He is a big player for us and at only 23 years old is one of the best about .
Tuanzabe looks decent young for a centre back is he good enough for the top level, time will tell.
Greenwood, what a talent this boy is still only 19. Lot to still learn but what a talent this boy is going to be .
Awb, I think he is improving will he ever be great attacking fb, i'm not sure . But he is a good player doing well.
Martial had his best ever season last year, poor this season.

Have we improved as a team? 3rd last season 2nd this season the table never lies .
6th under moyes
4th and 5th under lvg
6th 2nd and 6th jose .

We are sat second in the league, a lot better than a few expected and still they look for negatives .
Maybe things aren't as bad as some like to make out .

{Ed077's Note - and now this is a bit childish as well jred. :)}

30.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 13:16:45
spot on sim.

regardless of ole and his manager skill set, more players have improved that haven't that is a fact.

31.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 13:37:31
Ed77 yer it is a bit .
But also I will hold my hands up when I'm wrong.

32.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 13:51:38
Jred it seems you are the one getting mixed up here.

The minute a player is substituted is recorded and it's there for all to see as a fact.

It isn't just my opinion that zero substitutes were made against West Ham nor is it only my opinion that Ole mostly makes substitutions very late in the game. It is a fact. It's in blank and white. Take a look for yourself.

The very 'fact' that you are arguing against this makes any kind of discussion with you impossible.

You would argue the sky is yellow if Ole said so too.

33.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 14:20:13
Wazza
You said it was a fact

1.ole plays the same team all the time and on numerous occasions has not used all his subs as he’d rather have a tired favourite on the pitch, preferred to a fresh squad player or youngster. This will come back to bite him eventually.
2. It’s well documented that youngsters have looked to leave as there’s no progression plan to the first team. There are glimpses that’s changing, but time will tell.

1. Really same team all the time? No changes
Do other teams play there strongest teams and best players more often than not?
He doesn't use subs? Really that's a fact. of course he uses subs
This will come back to bite him? Really that's a fact?

It's well documented that there is no progressing plan? Really I've only read that on here .
Looking at the amount of young players in our team, academe players in the team etc etc,
It's a fact that there is no progressing plan for young players at man united?

Do all other managers use all there subs every game?
Do most managers play their best players?
Is it a fact that ole would rather have a tired player than a youngster? Its not maybe a tired bruno is better than a academe player etc etc .

We needed 3 points against West ham, we got them what's your issue?

34.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 14:52:10
jred, no issues at all.

Let's overplay Bruno/ Rashford not a real issue when Carrick/ Ole are on the bench. Carrick/ Ole can be player cum coach/ manager.

35.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 15:02:51
Let's play
Your best players play most games.

At what point are we overplaying bruno?

36.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 15:02:51
Let's play
Your best players play most games.

At what point are we overplaying bruno?

37.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 15:22:58
Jred we aren't talking about other managers, we are talking about Ole.

No subs made against West Ham (fact)
When he does make subs they are often late into the game (fact)
He overplays Bruno and Rashford (opinion, yet a widely shared one)

Get down off your high horse would you.

38.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 15:42:02
Wazza
He does make subs .

Against West ham we are a goal up, West ham have made more attacking changes they are having a go .
3 points takes us back into 2nd and opens up a gap on chelsea etc.
We don't have a strong bench but our back 4 are playing well .
Which one of them should he of subbed and why?
In cm Fred and mctom are doing well would you of subbed them? Who for and why .
West ham are now leaving gaps its a good situation for rash James and greenwood . Plus James and rash in particular can be trusted to see the game out defensively . Which woukd you of subbed and why .

We won and got the points, why was it a mistake not to make a sub?

39.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 15:46:38
Wazza as for high horse pal you said in your first post which started this convo

"A handful on here will argue against the above facts through blind defence of Ole, but they never provide any valid counter argument other than a load of ifs, buts and maybes"

Thst rubbish imo
Facts?
Blind defence?
No valid counter arguments?
Have a word, your opinion is exactly that. Your opinion.
Let's leave it at that tho, no need for things to start to get personal 🤝.

40.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 17:07:55
Jred, which of the back 4 would I have subbed? None. Defenders are rarely subbed.
Out of Fred and McTominay, probably none but maybe Fred for Matic as the latter has a calmer presence which would've helped in the last 15.
Forwards, definitely Rashford. He looks knackered, dead on his feet and is in desperate need of a rest. Everyone can see that, it seems, apart from you.

Hope that helps you see what was available and how it could've helped us.

Beyond that you may have taken off James and sat Williams further back or maybe given one of the younger lads a rest.

But the fact remains Ole made no subs and when he does make subs they are often very late.

41.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 17:46:55
Wazza the fact is ole made no subs and we won .

I would of kept rash on defensively he won't let you down and more importantly he didn't and we won .

You would of changed James for williams? He pace was killing them and stopping them from pushing on .
Can you imagine if ole had taken an attacker of for a defender .

Can you remember the stick we got on here when ole brought tuenz on and he give a free kick away against Everton.

Or the stick he got when he made 3 subs against Milan and they scored late on .

How would your subs of altered the result?

42.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 18:05:14
Jred, finally you accept it. Ole made no subs.

Nobody, not me, nor anyone else, is arguing that we won or lost.

Ole makes late subs. You can accept that, right? Some players need a rest, you can accept that too, right?

I wouldn't usually get all Shappy on someone but I went to the lengths to put this together for you. I hope you like it.

Opponent (since turn of the year), 1st substitution time:
West Ham, N/ A
City, '73
Palace, '74
Chelsea, '79
Newcastle, '70
West Brom, '66
West Ham, '73
Everton, '93
Southampton, '45 (we were 4-0 at half time)
Arsenal, '80
Sheff Utd, '66
Liverpool, '66
Fulham, '85
Liverpool, '61
Burnley, '80
Watford, '69
City, '75
Villa, '65

Average time for 1st sub by Ole is 71 minutes.
Average time for 1st sub in the Premier League is 59 minutes.

43.) 16 Mar 2021
16 Mar 2021 18:23:20
Wazza I think we should of left it as I said before but your determined to carry on .

What you said was

1.ole plays the same team all the time and on numerous occasions has not used all his subs as he’d rather have a tired favourite on the pitch, preferred to a fresh squad player or youngster.
Simple question .1. Your saying its a fact ole plays the Same team all the time?
2. And that's because he would rather have a tired player on the pitch?
No other reason 😂😂

This will come back to bite him eventually.
It's a fact it will come back to bite him?

As you have pointed out ole makes subs. What's your point are you trying to say we woukd have more points if he made subs earlier.
Is that a fact?
Or just or opinion , what ifs and maybes as you put it.

We won against West ham would we of definitely won if we had made a sub?
Are you saying it was the wrong thing to do? Even tho we won
For example we made 3 subs against Milan and everyone complained . same against Everton.

44.) 17 Mar 2021
17 Mar 2021 01:37:45
jred, you are the one mixing up facts and opinions now.

I would love you to come up with a break down of this season game by game - would be a interesting read for sure.

45.) 17 Mar 2021
17 Mar 2021 01:45:49
Shappy, everyone I suppose have acknowledged the good things that Ole has done but it is pretty evident he is limited and the job is beyond him.

It's not just a matter of now and where we are in the table or how players performed last season, you have to look at the bigger picture and question:

1. Do we really look convincing with our style of play to hurt the opposition?
2. How many games have we really dominated and taken the game to the opposition?
3. We are very one dimensional and there doesn't seem to be any tactics to break down opposition when they just sit back.
4. Are we playing as a unit as it seems we are reliant on individual performances all the time. There doesn't seem to be any sort of organization across the pitch.
5. Players doing well last season why are they so poor now? Is Ole and his staff incapable of inspiring players to do their best?
6. Even if we are going to add more quality to the squad you still need a plan to bring them altogether and play as a unit. Has Ole shown anything to suggest he would be capable of doing that?
7. Our academy seems to be flourishing with some young talented skillful players with a few who could soon be knocking the doors to the first team. Do people have any confidence in Ole and his coaching staff to help these young ones improve and stake a claim in the first team or will it all be down to individual brilliance of the player involved.

There are a lot of things wrong with Ole at the helm and one thing he has constantly reminded everyone is that he is not brave enough to take on teams even when they are struggling and yet he approaches the game so cautiously. It is a sign of a weak manager.