15 May 2021 19:49:26
As fans we tend to make our mind up fairly quickly on players, it can then take years if ever for fans to change their opinion.

Carrick is an obvious example, a player who probably wasn't appreciated by most United fans until he had already been at the club for 5-6 years. Criminally underrated by many.

There is an accepted belief that AWB is "useless' going forward and only good in 1v1 situations. I myself have felt the same. As such we tend to notice every time he chooses not to cross, or when he turns back in field and plays a pass off to one of McFred.

While on the other flank we have Shaw, a player who many consider to be a genuine contender for player of the season. For the most part defensively solid (occasionally gets caught sleeping at the far post) . Great going forward, especially on the overlap. It's easy to see why, especially when you see that his key passes per game are only bettered in our squad by Bruno.

So with the perceived understanding of each player then it might be a shock to most fans (it was to me) that AWB has as many goals/ assists this season as Shaw.

Shaw has scored 1, and assisted 5 for us this season.

AWB has scored 2 and assisted 4.

Meaning both our fullbacks are directly responsible for 6 goals a piece so far this season.

Now obviously there is a lot more nuance involved than just the pure numbers. I mean Shaw is playing 2.3 key passes per game to AWB's 0.9. so clearly Shaw is attempting more offensive play. But with similar numbers is it quantity over quality?

I just find it interesting that we consider Shaw a contender for player of the year based on his offensive contribution as a defender to our side this season. Yet AWB has contributed just as much without mention.

This is the great thing about opinions we can change them, as long as we don't get fooled into seeing what we expect to see and see things in a balanced way. When new information is presented to us, or we see a situation develop and change then it's only natural that our opinions on it change as well.

1.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 19:59:33
I agree Shappy. I said it before that although i am glad with Shaws improvement (fair play to him) I don't see something special in him just yet. On the other hand i can see that Bissakas decision making have massively improved. Most of times he knows when to make a run behind or pur a cross in or wait until he plays the ball in the right timing like in Masons goal against Villa. If he continue to improve he will be a top right back in the next years. Although its big if.

2.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 20:09:51
Opinions generally change with a players form. There will be the odd player that people take adislike to even when they are playing well.
But all those stats only tell part of the story. Shaw has played with more intent and has better support on the left.
Awb turns back and sideways a lot more because he often has a lot less support.
Awb could have better numbers so he is not doing as well as he could be. He takes less risks than shaw in the final 3rd.
Where is your stat for how many times awb could have done something positive but didn't? That's what a lot of people see.
Who loses possession more often in the final 3rd?
Awb is a lot more capable in the final 3rd than his numbers suggest but he is playing more safety 1st football and hadn't the dame potions and support on the right that shaw does on the left. We are lobsided and predictable.

3.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 20:22:21
AWB has clearly improved going forward but I think part of the problem is simply an aesthetic one. He doesn't really look comfortable on the ball when dribbling and his passing technique looks awkward. This leads people to think he's poor when in fact he's not too bad.

Reminds me a bit of how people used to think of Mahmadou Sakho. Including me for a while as well. Then you actually look at it and there are players who are far less effective on the ball despite looking far more comfortable and who give the ball away for fun or make mistakes galore which I don't believe AWB does.

4.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 20:29:14
The problem with wan. He just hasn't got a decent cross on him. He runs forward and 9 times out of 10 he stops passes it. Or losses it.
The other night against Liverpool. Their rb trent he has a great cross on him.

5.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 20:37:03
Do we have any stats on how often AWB and Shaw receive the ball in the last third of the opposition half and then pass it inside or back? Then how many crosses have Shaw and AWB have put in? Then compare the number of crosses to say Alexander Arnold. Then how many times have Shaw and AWB have actually got past the fullback?

6.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 20:57:54
I remember when I I used to like my full back being able to defend. I forgot we signed him to improve our attacking play. I guess it’s a big ask for him to replicate G. Nev’s goals and assist output.

7.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 20:58:29
My eyes tell me Shaw has been excellent, AWB not so much.

8.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 21:08:02
Ports

It looks to me like we bought AWB to defend, then wanted him to attack, however, when he gets the ball we expect him to pass it back or inside. There seems little or no intention to manipulate the opposition full back to get behind them. I would love to read the spec requirements when they were looking for a RB and then the rationale that AWB fitted it. Good defender for me but why buy a defensive FB to then play two holding MF players and expect the defensive RB to suddenly attack.

9.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 21:36:32
AWB doesn't pass the eye test that much I'm sure of.

He's not awful but far from elite level.

Really hope Kieran Tripper comes in to push him on to a higher level.

10.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 21:39:27
Stats can be twisting always.
Shaw stretches the game offensively much frequently and efficiently than AWB.
His darting runs leads to chance creating situations for our attacking players.

Defensively AWB is our best fullback, don't think anyone can gue with that.

11.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 21:57:11
AWB did set up Greenwood recently, when he turned inside and scored near post. And last week he made a good underlapping run and then found Bruno against Liverpool. He does seems to start and stop an awful lot, but there have been a few positive signs.

12.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 22:46:49
Lillian Thurman scored 10 career goals. Are we judging full backs on that now? We bought Wan-Bissaka to solve our RB position. He has done that defensively whilst improving his attacking ability. I don’t believe we signed him to improve our attacking prowess. I think we play 2 defensive midfielders because centrally we are suspect. Get a decent defensive minded CM in and that solves the issue of playing 2 which the allows Pogba to go centrally with Fernandes and a front three.

{Ed014's Note - FB’s in general are now judged against TAA and Robertson just as they were previously judged against Neville and Cole.

It’s that simple.

13.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 23:12:12
Well let’s look at some stats between TAA and Wan-Bissaka.

This is all premier league stats this season. Goals, 2 each. Assists, TAA 6, WB 4.
Blocks, TAA 2, WB 16. Interceptions, TAA 44, WB 62. Tackles, TAA 51, WB 88. Errors leading to goals, TAA 1, WB 0.

So attacking TAA is 2 assists better. Defensively WB is significantly stronger and direct goals if you include errors then TAA is positively 1 better than WB but but comments on here you’d think TAA is a prime Cafu and WB is Rigobert Song.

{Ed014's Note - how about you compare stats, if that’s your thing, with AWB of this season with TAA of last so you get a better idea of what’s really expected of a modern day full back/wingback.

If AWB compares favourably then you’ll know he’s on the right track or just an ok modern day full back/wingback.

14.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 23:32:54
Ok, defensively WB is still better in tackles, blocks and interceptions. As he was the season before. So this season he has improved his attacking game. Can the same be said about TAA and his defensive game? Considering they are both defenders.

{Ed014's Note - Ports, you want to believe that AWB is getting better and I think he is too, loved him at Palace when defending was the order of the day.

You have a great young defender in him but I’m sure we’d both take TAA if the choice was there.

AWB just needs to keep working at his game and see where he gets.

15.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 23:42:16
Ed014 what's your opinion on Bissaka? I think he is improving, and i see room for further improvement. I think he was superb at low block with big six, especially at 0-0 bit average in most games although in the last 4-5 games he has more confidence and his desicion making has improved. Do you think he can become a top-modern full back?

{Ed014's Note - I really like him mate, he like I just said, looked so impressive at Palace.

He seemed to stall somewhat initially at United, even go backwards, but he’s picked up again.

He’s only 23 so has time to become top drawer but needs some top coaching and to further develop his attacking play which is slowly starting to happen.

TAA has set a high bar on which FB’s are now measured but I don’t see how he can’t get there if he keeps working hard mate.

He’s definitely one to keep in your squad going forward.

16.) 15 May 2021
15 May 2021 23:51:54
Ed, I can appreciate Trent is fantastic (annoyingly) but I feel the criticism of WB on here is unfair and to be honest, they are two very different players. If 4-4-2 was still a go to formation, then if I were Southgate I’d be going WB at RB and TAA ahead of him for the euros I rate TAA that highly. But obviously that’s not a formation that would be considered nowadays. The thing is, most modern day fans, young fans and this is not meant to be disrespectful to them, but they’d never appreciate a Denis Irwin, who in my opinion is one of the best, if not the best full backs the premier league (and before then) has ever seen. He just just not as exciting I guess as TAA. Of all our positions LB and RB is not our issue and I’m genuinely confident we can win things with Shaw and WB. But we need strengthening at CB and CM.

{Ed014's Note - I didn’t read the previous posts, my bad, and didn’t realise he was getting slated, that’s mad.

I’d agree that’s two positions where those two can improve and will be genuine first 11 players for the foreseeable.

Elsewhere, like you say, is far more important to upgrade.

17.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 08:23:28
For me wan bissaka us getting better going forward, excellent defensively still aswell. Luke Shaw has done well going forward but remains quite a liability positional at the back. It appears full backs are getting judged then on what they do as an attacker, for me, being a good defender and the ability to attack well is what I like so for me I prefer wan bissaka, a lot to improve still going forward but again he is improving all the time. Not having a proper RW ahead of him or the same player consistently probably hasn't helped either.

18.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 00:17:25
Thanks Ed014. I have the same opinion. I remember 001 saying that Bissaka is new in this position so he has room for improvement. He is improving but i think he could do a lot better but he must be trained property.
That said i think Trent is out of comparison, offensively he is like De Bruyne so i don't think is fair to compare them.

{Ed014's Note - it was a comparison as such H, it was more the thought that TAA of last season is pretty much where we’d all like our respective RB’s to be.

I’d say AWB has the attributes to get there, application and coaching the key.

19.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 07:13:49
You can't just compare two players from different teams, since they have different conditions, different managers, teammates, style of play.

Its expected to see improvement for AWB this season, last season was getting to know the club and blend in.

Ed, you said that you would always pick TAA over AWB, but who is to say that he would have same influence here, as he has in Liverpool?
Perhaps our defence would concede 10 more goals, since there would be no cover for poor Lindelof?

{Ed014's Note - Trololo this isn’t a bash AWB post from my point of view we’re just discussing the two players.

I’m simply saying TAA of last season is the bench mark, I see no reason why AWB couldn’t play to that level, if he gets there, in your side.

If it wasn’t the kind of style FB’s your side were looking to develop, why is Shaw offensively looking good do a similar thing to TAA and Robbo at LB 🤷‍♂️

20.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 11:29:46
I do see some posters here (not this thread) who bash him.

I was discussing, I was just saying it is hard to just compare players head to head like that.

Why is Shaw worse deffensivly? How long did he need to make an impact? Who is he playing with on left side? Wasnt right side more problematic throughout the season? As soon as Greenwood started playing regulary and got in form, AWB got better in offense as well. And in the end, it appears they Shaw and AWB have similar stats goal/ assist wise.

I see AWB better than Shaw and only see him getting even better.

21.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 11:37:22
I'm not so sure about TAA either. He lacks defensively the same way AWB lacks offensively.

TAA imo could be a fantastic RCM.

One other thing TAA benefits from is having VvD next to him, that covers his defensive weakness and allows him to do what he does best. AWB doesn't have an outstanding RW that would provide him a similar balance.

22.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 12:00:06
I have to share a few others' opinion that although Shaw/ AWB's stats may be identical on paper, I have to judge with my eyes and I see the intent and desire in Shaw that Wan-Bissaka lacks in any form. I wonder if we include how many attempts and driving runs both have made how similar the stats will be then. But if we're going just by the numbers, I guess they contribute equally.

23.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 15:14:50
Exactly spenno.

24.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 18:21:15
Or we can see the opposite. That Bissaka has the same numper of goals/ asists with less forward runs and less attempts. So someone can say imagine if tries harder in the final third.

25.) 16 May 2021
16 May 2021 18:30:47
That's my point herrera his success rate is of a higher%.

26.) 17 May 2021
17 May 2021 11:53:31
What is a little frustrating is AWB started out as a winger in youth team apparently.