20 May 2021 10:31:50
We are nearly at the end of the season now and people are starting to reflect on how we have performed. Ultimately, I think this is fairly pointless until after the EL final as personally I think winning or losing that puts a very different perspective on the season.

I think there is a lot of posturing with people trying to justify their position by moving the goal posts.

Before the season started pretty much everyone agreed a successful season would be gaining more points than last year (some people put a figure on how many others didn't), finishing higher in the league and winning a cup.

Now we have achieved two of those three already, but like many I think the cup is the most important of the three.

Yet now suddenly the cup we could win isn't the right one. We didn't improve by enough points (although we are likely to have improved by exactly the same number of points as City, without adding any new key first teamers like City have with Dias) . While suddenly this extra criteria of "style of play" seems to be the biggest issue.

Obviously, things aren't rosy, no United fan can be truly happy unless we are challenging for and winning the biggest competitions. Yet if we win the EL we will have achieved every target set before the season started.

I feel that is why we are seeing the posturing and shifting of the goal posts, to justify an opinion that the manager should be sacked despite him potentially achieving all the pre-season expectations, possibly exceeding if we are honest.

I fully agree that the style of play isn't where I'd like it to be. That said, I would also say that on the whole the football has been better and more entertaining than under any of Moyes, LvG or Jose.

We have scored more goals this season than under any manager since Sir Alex.

Since Sir Alex has retired United have scored 5 goals or more on 6 occasions, all 6 of them have come under Ole Gunnar Solskjear.

That doesn't mean it can't be better and that we shouldn't want better, but to place into context where the team is compared to where we have been over the past 8 years.

Like I said whether this season can be seen as a success, or a failure will probably hinge on the EL result. Whether it should or shouldn't is a fair debate, but for the majority of fans finishing the season with a trophy will alter how they feel about the season as a whole.

1.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 11:28:13
shappy do you think people are posturing and moving the goal posts to suit their argument?

Your goal posts are on wheels mate you move them and shift position that often. 🤣🤣.

{Ed014's Note - attached to a 650bhp V8

2.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 11:25:41
Shappy, only you could say it's a pointless debate to have before the EL final is over, then write an essay on the very same debate 😂😂 only winding you up mate.

My opinion hasn't really changed on the success of the season. I said at the start of the season, I'd like to see a 10-15 point increase, a CL quarter final and an improved level of performance in general. In my opinion we've achieved none of that.

Not saying things haven't improved and not saying this side aren't (at times) more enjoyable to watch than LVG or Jose teams but we're arguably further away from City than we were last year despite our small improvements.

The good performances are rarely anywhere close to 90 minutes. When we do play well it's for 20 or 30 minutes here and there, which is largely how it was in the 2nd half of last season. There's only so many times we can turn it on and off, there's only so many times we can lose a daft goal and go behind but come back and win. There's only so many times I can see poor play without thinking is this just bad players or is there a coaching issue too? How often is AWB caught under the ball? How often does Rashford run down a blind alley? How often is the play extremely slow? These are players I like, but they are making the same mistakes they did 18 months ago and fans are still complaining about these same issues.

I'd say it's fairly easy to judge this season regardless of the EL final result and that is we have made some progress but not a huge amount and we are still a fair way away from challenging for the big prizes. Winning the EL doesn't change that, it only shows we have a side capable of winning a consolation cup.

3.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 12:13:47
Shappy, trying to ride on the coattails of city saying "We've improved by the same amount of points as City have".

The history books will show them as Champions and show us as runners up. It's that simple. Some fans are very happy with that, some aren't.

I post two posts yesterday and the site goes into meltdown. Compared to flat earthers and "I think people are struggling because of the C.V." changing the narrative that there's automatically something wrong if you're not drinking the Ole KoolAid. Basically told to not post my opinion anymore because it's "boring" but then it's fine for posts like this. Nonsense.

I'll enjoy a few drinks on Wendesday watching the match. Iv said it plenty of times before, all I want to see us doing is lifting trophies. It will be a nice end to the season.

But Shappy, you went on the record to say you didn't give two craps the last time we won the Europa. It didn't mean anything to you.

Was that because it was Jose, or because of the opposition or because it's a second tier European competition?

Are you looking forward to winning it this time around?

4.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 12:17:08
Shapps, on top of my head, I remember Moyes's United spank Bayer Leverkusen 5-0 in CL.

And regarding no first teamers added? Really?
Cavani has been a revelation. Donny was chased by the likes of Real. Unfortunately, Ole doesn't know to utilize him.

5.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 12:56:50
The Europa league, if won, would be paraded not just around the stadium but on here as well, not least by Shappy. I will say what I said on the EL a long time ago, I didn’t get excited when watching us beat Ajax, 4 years ago, pleased yes, cheered yes but it is not a patch on the CL.

In a way there is a comparison to 99. If City win the CL, to make it a treble, not the treble but a bloody good treble, how feeble will we be shouting about the also ran cup, the knocked out of the one that matters early compensation cup? It will be like City winning the 2nd division playoff in 99 compared to our treble, City’s treble v EL.
Yes I want to win it, but let’s have realism on what it means. Seville won it how many times, did that make them prominent in European terms?

Where we are does not hinge on the EL, it does not mean success next season in trophies that matter. However, the open top poster parade will start, probably with Shappy.

6.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 13:15:04
Shappy didn't want to win it he had no interest in it and wanted us to play kids and reserves.

7.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 13:32:21
Good post Red Man. To add to this the Real team that won 3 Champions League title in a row didn't do very well at their league and the rumours back then was that Zidane was unhappy about the gap at La Liga. He knew the measure is the League.
I will be happy to won all cups available but the big measure and the real mirror is Premier League. For me winning or not EL will not change my opinion on coach. I will not judge him on a game and he will not be the best if we win it and useless if not. He is here 2.5 years and we had a lot of time to judge him.

8.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 13:33:29
As much as I agree with reman in terms of not getting too excited about winning the Europa Cup, I think it's essential that we do win it as it will give the manager and players a taste of winning trophies and hopefully breed that winning mentality. We lose and we get none of that and we're back to square one of having a manager in charge who has never won a top trophy which obviously will bring huge pressure next season, so for me, even though its not a big trophy, it's an essential one.

{Ed014's Note - it certainly helped you with that winning mentality after Maureen won it for you 🤷‍♂️

9.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 13:55:07
Its pretty clear that the europa league isn't the right cup to win by the fact we weren't in the competition to start with.

Obviously once we dropped into the comp, you want to win it and it would be a good end to the season.

But if anyone suggested at the start of the season that our european campaign would end in the europa league, everyone would have considered that a failure.

10.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 14:41:19
Goodness sake. You want to win any competition you are in regardless. If we win next week it will be very quiet on here, anyone happy will be ridiculed and if we lose the site will be super busy with the same dross written about the same topics.

The reason when we won the europa league in 2017 there was a good bit of cheering was because mourinho gave up on the league and all our eggs went into the one basket.

This time round, yes we were in the CL and cocked it up, but a trophy is a trophy. We have clearly targeted winning it given the team selections, and managed to negotiate the thursday-sunday turnaround quite well I think. Will I cheer if we win? Yes. Will I be delighted? Yes, because I think it would be great to see players like Greenwood, Bruno, AWB and Maguire getting their first trophy with us.

Will it catapult us to the title and the champions league? No. The only way we will get there is by good recruitment, simple. Every manager since Fergie has never been delivered their key targets. From Moyes to Ole, everyone of them has not got their number one targets, or even a player to fill that role. So whilst this site bitches and moans at each other about OGS, the real issues have been off the pitch and us spending lots of money, but it not being spent well. Until that improves, it will be false dawn after false dawn.

11.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 16:34:29
Every poster that says we get none of our first targets, suddenly disappears from conversation and don't want to dabate . Why? Because its excuse.
I will start from GK. Was De Gea our first target? None could disagree he was.
Was Shaw our first target? Clearly he was. A dream sighning for most fans back then.
Was Bissaka first target? Clearly he was, we chased him for months, he was the up and coming right back, young and home grown. A dream sighning for most people.
Was Maguire first target? A dream sighning for a lot of fans. Clearly a well liked player inside our team. From Mourinho to scouts and then to Ole, all liked him all wanted him and the club paid a ridiculous amount for money to make this transfer happen.
What about Lindelof? The timing of transfer show that it wasn't a desperate late deal. Our team wanted him, targeted him and brought him early on.
What about Matic? A player Zose know hom well and drive our team to pay 50 millions for a slow player without resale value.
Was Pogba first target? Mourinho badly wanted him the previous year at Chelsea and he chased him. Then Zose came to us and finally after chasing the player all summer he finally took his man as the club again delivered and payed a world record fee plus a significant amount of money at his agent.
Was Bruno first target? Well maybe Longstaff was the first target of the coach but we couldn't get him. As such we buyed Fernandez and he is a clearly better player than the first target similar to Brandt-Salah. Or maybe Bruno he was the first target who knows.
Then upfront we took some expensive big names like Di Maria Lukaku and Miki and I believe they were first or second choices. None worked and we have our own boys in Rashford Greenwood and we try to take players in like Sancho.
The problem at our club is not that they don't take the first targets. The problem is that these targets aren't really top player. The problem is that we insist so much on them that we don't even try for others. And so the problem is that we finally buy these players.

12.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 17:11:14
Wind must be blowing goodo today, shappys opinion has changed again 😂.

13.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 17:36:40
Herrera you just need to read what Van gaal said and mourinho about players mate. In particular the list Van Gaal gave recently.

14.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 17:40:49
Comical stuff angel🤣.

15.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 17:55:49
I do love how people keep saying I change my opinion (which isn't a problem or bad thing btw) but they can never give an example 🤣.

16.) 20 May 2021
20 May 2021 20:29:17
Caolan I don't care about what a coach says to defend himself or make excuses. I gave you a list which I think none can argue that they were first choice targets at the time. And guess what, that's over half our starting eleven.
I agree that Van Haal didn't get some of his targets but i simply believe that means nothing. Some were difficult targets like Neymar or Hummels, some we couldn't simply because the club disided that they will sack him so step away of his targets (ed002 said that we spoke with Saul but stepped back at the time) . Also don't forget that from his list we would buy Mane but he was sucked before summer of 16.
We must stop making excuses because know what? Every manager can come and give a list of Empampe Haaland Van Dyke and Salah and says we didn't delivered. You make it easy for them.

17.) 21 May 2021
21 May 2021 09:19:12
No Herrera, it’s not making it easy for them. The simple fact of the matter is that Van Gaal knows how to win, Jose knows how to win. Why weren’t they successful? Have a look upstairs and you will see this is business with a football club. We’ve tried the proven winners and went nowhere. So if I’m in business and I have 3 or 4 different managers who don’t deliver, but all have the same complaint as the previous, then I would have to start looking at the structures above them.