15 Jul 2021 03:07:41
Some of the disrespect on here for Fred is getting ridiculous. The guy played great for us for long spells last season. He just played for Brazil in the copa america ahead of fabinho it seemed at times (not sure if fabinho had injuries? ) . But the guy is far better than the pantomime villain people on here are making him out to be.

Not trying to silence anyone, just voicing at least one small voice in support for a proper player, who works his socks off and contrary to nearly every post on here I read, can also play a bit.

1.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 06:23:35
Both fred and mctom are similar players, neither can play good long balls consistently. He's a good squad player Fred but we should be aiming higher.

2.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 07:46:49
I'll hold my hands up and say I'm critical of Fred very often. I probably also focus on mistakes he makes more often than I do with others.

He undoubtedly works incredibly hard but I'm always doubtful of a player who's best attribute is "he runs a lot". Does he do that intelligently? What else does he offer? For a side who control possession in 70% of the games the play, I just don't see the need for him as he is basically a passenger when we are in possession. His use of the ball is very limited.

It's not a surprise his best performances for United tend to come in games where we don't have a huge amount of the ball. Games against PSG, City, Chelsea etc where we simply focus on interceptions, pressing in our defensive 3rd and winning the ball back. He does that well.

No doubt he's a scapegoat but he's also not good enough to be starting anywhere near the amount of games he does.

3.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 08:56:07
He can't pass a ball, gives away possession far too often and doesn't even chip in with goals and assists. His strength is breaking up play, but that often includes breaking the flow of his own side. I watched almost every game last season, and he wasn't great once, he had a couple of performances that were better, but would be severely criticised if made by others (such as Pogba or Bruno) . I believe McTom has far more potential, has better passing, particularly in short range, and is a goal threat, a much better player. I honestly believe Darren Gibson was a better CM than Fred, least he could pass and shoot.

4.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 09:37:50
Darron Gibson was not a better CM than Fred, I think your post sums up the disrespect Dodgy was talking about in his OP though.

5.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 09:38:18
100% Fred gets undue stick, I'm probably as guilty of it as anyone. He is the kind of player every side needs in their squad, he is perfect for certain games or situations. His real limitation as with McTominay is a lack of a top class player alongside them.

Either of them could be a success at United with the right midfield partner alongside them.

6.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 10:15:41
Fred should be a squad player at best and shouldn't be in the first X1 if we aspire to compete at the top.

The number of times he concedes possession is crazy. He doesn't create chances nor does he chips in with goals.
With his poor first touch, it's also a risk playing out from the back with him.

I wouldn't sell him personally. Have him has a squad player for added depth.

7.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 10:20:47
I agree 100%. I think Fred is a very good midfielder, and very valuable in games against other big teams who we maybe don't expect to dominate possession against.

However, I understand people's frustration, as we are using Fred and McTominay against smaller sides where we should be dominating posession. Part of this is because we don't have a proper DM who can cover the defensive duties by himself and free the other CM to join the attack.

Part of it may also simply be Ole's preference. If we get a CDM like Rice or whoever and still persist with the 2 DM system, then we know it's Ole.

8.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 12:08:46
I'm with dodgy. Fred had a slow start with us but he has shown his worth. He's a player that you know will work his socks off and cover every blade of grass a d break up play. Attacking isn't his strongest ability but he's there to do.

9.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 13:10:07
Is it disrespect to think someone is not good enough and that someone else was better i'm not sure it is. I'd say that's an opinion.
Fred is not a good player imo. He has good attributes but imo they are out weighed by his lack of technical ability.
He is no better than cleverly or Gibson in many aspects of his game but is better than them in others.

Is James shown disrespect when people say he is not good enough? If you say a player is not good enough is that showing hatred? I don't believe it is but the drama queens and hyperbole lovers will twist some people words and mis represent them. But they are allowed do it to other players themselves.
I'd get rid of Fred in a heartbeat. I don't dislike him i just don't think he is good enough for Manchester United. No doubting his application
Fred was taken off in copa final at half time. The difference with our manager is he put him on with 20 mins to go in extra time in a final in order to shut up shop.
Fred suits ole but neither ole or fred suit Manchester United imo and I say that with the greatest of respect.

10.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 13:17:06
If I was given the nod to start in Utd’s midfield, you can rest assured that I’d run my socks off and try very hard. I wouldn’t expect 250k a week though, only laughter….

11.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 12:43:17
I actually decided to look into the facts to see if there is any real truth in the labels Fred gets such as giving the ball away, poor passing accuracy etc to see how much truth there is and how much of is confirmation bias.

Of the players with 10+ appearances this season Fred is 4th for average passing accuracy across the whole season with a very respectable 87.7%. if you look at the entire regardless of number of appearances he drops one place to 5th best passing accuracy in the squad.

This means that only 3 players, who play regularly, retain possession with their passing better than Fred.

So clearly the majority of the squad give the ball away with bad/ inaccurate passes more often than Fred.

This seems to be a case of confirmation bias more than him actually giving the ball away regularly. When other player do it, it's less obvious but because you expect Fred to give the ball away you recognise every time he does.

As for being dispossessed or having a bad first touch which results in a loss of possession.

He's dispossessed once on average per game, meaning Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Bruno have the ball taken from them more regularly than Fred. As well as Diallo (although he has a small sample size which might not be fair to count him yet) .

While 13 players have a bad control which leads to a loss of possession more often than Fred on average this season.

So again it is shown that there are many other players in our team who are more likely to turn over possession either though being tackled or by having a poor first touch or control of the ball than Fred.

There are two possible reasons for why people "see" Fred either being tackled, losing the ball, or passing it to an opponent more often than other players.

Firstly, it's confirmation bias, they are expecting to see it so are looking for it. Ask yourself honestly how many times you see the ball passed to Fred and in your head you go "oh no, not Fred he's going to give it away". If you ever have that thought by or similar go through your head then you will be open to confirmation bias.

The second which is much harder to quantify is where and in what situations on the pitch Fred gives the ball away. If he does it just outside our own penalty area and the opposition have a shot or score a goal from than. Well then that's much more obvious to observers than if Rashford loses the ball out wide deep in the opposition half.

If Fred loses the ball in more dangerous areas then it is much more obvious and visible to casual viewers.

In reality it is probably a bit of both, but the truth is somewhere in the middle. Fred actually has a very respectable passing accuracy, while he doesn't give the ball away that often. Around twice every 90 minutes on average though being tackled or having a poor touch this season in fact.

I would suggest the real problem is actually how slowly he and McTominay move the ball on. While Fred might not lose the ball that often from a bad first touch, the extra second or so it takes him to get the ball under control is time lost in which he could be playing a pass in behind the opposition before they are back in their defensive shape.

12.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 13:51:24
Shappy like all stats they are useless without context.
You rightly say other lose possession but its where and when. He might play a pass that goes to a united player. Is that pass a good pass? The correct pass? Is it around the knees or chest? Is it behind the player but he gets to it?
Fred is destructive and combatative but his passing is not creative and usually safe and easy so the stats are not comparable to a winger or forward that are playing higher risk passes or maneuvers .
Fred is not a good passer of the ball my lad could complete 87% of the passes he attempts. But could not play 5% of the ones pogba or Bruno attempt.
He is a work horse with very limited ability offensively he can't be trusted on the ball in key areas.
Sideways and backwards passes of 10 yards in his position are plentiful which will distort the numbers.
He constantly plays poor passes putting his team mates under pressure. The pass may hit the target but there is nothing the receiver can do with some of them.

13.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 13:53:13
Obviously pogba, martial, rashford and Bruno are going to be dispossessed more than Fred.

They actually take risks with the ball and try and take people on, where as Fred just sits there passing sideways and backwards.

Same goes for passing accuracy percentages, they can easily be padded by a high volume of sideways and backwards passing.

If you are going to use stats at least try and contextualize them.

14.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 13:54:15
Might not lose the ball that often from a first touch?

In the words of Roy Keane ‘You’re Joking’.

15.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 14:32:36
I didn't say he was a good passer of the ball, just a generally successful one.

I also said he doesn't lose the ball half as often as everyone believes. Which is backed up by the stats.

I actually go on to say that the problem with him is that while he doesn't give the ball away often when passing it, the passes he plays are too slow and not dangerous/ penetrative enough.

I agree he needs to be upgraded if we are to be successful, all I'm saying is that he isn't the absolute liability that many make him out to be.

16.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 14:33:25
It doesn't take stats to realise how much he misplaces his passes, you just need to watch a game. Fred causes chaos, which does mean he breaks down the play and prevents the opposition from creating momentum, but as I said previously, that also means our plays suffer too. It means we have to go down the flanks where our players are not great crossers. The difference was visible in the amount of chances created in the middle, for Cavani and Martial, before Pogba returned to the side and played on the left. No one mentions how bad Fred is defensively too, he is often caught out of position, making the CBs vulnerable, and often neglates to cover the full backs when they drift inwards to fill the space left by an out of position Lindelof or Maguire. So many goals come from Fred losing the ball or an opposition player finding plenty of room where he should be covering.

17.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 14:34:20
I didn't say he was a good passer of the ball, just a generally successful one.

I also said he doesn't lose the ball half as often as everyone believes. Which is backed up by the stats.

I actually go on to say that the problem with him is that while he doesn't give the ball away often when passing it, the passes he plays are too slow and not dangerous/ penetrative enough.

I agree he needs to be upgraded if we are to be successful, all I'm saying is that he isn't the absolute liability that many make him out to be.

18.) 15 Jul 2021
15 Jul 2021 14:34:29
I didn't say he was a good passer of the ball, just a generally successful one.

I also said he doesn't lose the ball half as often as everyone believes. Which is backed up by the stats.

I actually go on to say that the problem with him is that while he doesn't give the ball away often when passing it, the passes he plays are too slow and not dangerous/ penetrative enough.

I agree he needs to be upgraded if we are to be successful, all I'm saying is that he isn't the absolute liability that many make him out to be.