1.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 11:15:00
Interesting read Ed, who in your opinion is 'worse' for their teams, Ole or Arteta?

{Ed001's Note - Arteta. By a significant margin.}

2.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 11:56:19
So although we could have better, we are not too bad. It is said; 'The man without shoes cried till he met a man with no feet'

{Ed001's Note - very true that is.}

3.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 12:31:32
Is Ole a great manager? probably not. But only the wilfully ignorant choose not to accept that he has done some things right.

such as improve the atmosphere and create a "United" dressing room. Or that he has created a much stronger squad. Or his handling of Greenwood when he had a few off field issues. Or even the best back to back league finishes of any manager post Sir Alex.

Obviously this has to be weighted against a lack of winning a trophy. While the style of play, although better than under any of the previous three managers, lacks consistency. We can be great for 20 minutes some times half an hour, but we don't dominate games for the whole 90 minutes even against sides we probably should.

Arteta on the other hand seems to be unable to get anything right, causing issues in the dressing room where there weren't any before, signing player that imbalance the squad, while playing poor football for the most part. On top of poor results and finishes.

I think whoever takes over Arsenal next will benefit from simply not being Arteta and get Arsenal performing better. Whoever takes over after Ole will benefit from the squad and conditions that Ole has created/ built.

4.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 13:50:17
Supposedly the weekend just gone was Arteta’s ‘best ever’ in management. I’d be significantly worried to hear that if I were a gunner.

5.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 13:33:00
Spot on with this one Ed. As a first 11 Arsenal are a very good team and should finish 5th or 6th. But injuries and managerial incompetence has really held them back.

Reg. Ole, Ed makes a good point about the 3 key attributes for a manager - tactics, coaching and man management. Ole is bang average at the first two but has done a very good job with the man management, which is probably what we needed at the time. He probably knows his shortcomings and hence is looking to get in special-ists such as Eric Ramsay - who seems to have had a very good impact from early indications.

If Ole had someone like Muelensteen or Michale Beale then it could be a very good coaching setup.

{Ed001's Note - I couldn't argue with anything you have said there at all.}

6.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 14:12:22
It's very easy to improve the mood in the dressing room if your standards are low. Nobody held accountable, dismal displays defended, no pressure put on them at all. Who wouldn't want to be paid a fortune, play for Man Utd and have no expectations.

Jose falls out with players because he has a standard. He'll come after you expecting a reaction. There's a debate in how effective this is in the modern game but Simone and Conte both have this style and they have delivered big trophies.

The best demand the best.

7.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 15:32:09
Mumbles, I think you can get success with that style of management, as you point out both Conte and Simeone have managed it.

However, I wonder about the longevity of that style at a top club with players with big ego's.

As we have seen with Jose and Conte to an extent they don't seem to be able to hang around long at top clubs with their style of management.

Simeone bucks the trend somewhat, yet I think that is because he is managing a side that isn't expected to realistically challenge for the title every year. While Atletico have a few players with big ego's but not many. Not like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Juventus, Chelsea etc.

Atletico tend to have 1 or 2 big name "star" players with the ego to match. The rest tend to be good hard working professionals.

The other issue with that style of management is it lends itself better to defensive pragmatic styles of play.

You can't encourage players to be expressive, and take risks if you're going to drag them over hot coals every time they give the ball away or make mistakes.

I don't think that style of play is particularly beneficial when trying to develop young players who tend to need more support and encouragement rather than being blasted publicly for making a mistake while they effectively learn on the job.

So while it can be effective it's not great if you want expansive attacking football, longevity or if you want to give youth a chance and develop young players.

8.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 17:13:19
How good was Jose with Luke Shaw? Case closed.

9.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 19:23:26
Dodgy, I'm pretty sure Jose wasn't the only manager to criticise Shaw, even at international level questions were asked of him.

10.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 19:55:08
He still struggles defensively as well.

11.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 20:20:29
Alternatively you could try and name a player who played their best football under Jose, which players really benefitted from his coaching/ management style?

12.) 13 Sep 2021
13 Sep 2021 20:47:38
I would say Bailey, Lindelof, De Gea and Lingard from the players still here were all better under Jose. Matic was better but that's age.

Man for Man the squad he had is nowhere near the quality of this one but he still managed to win trophies and finish in the league with more points.

His style may have upset a few players but he managed to bring home trophies.

13.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 04:38:44
Give it a rest mumbles, Jose was poison.

14.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 08:08:42
Get with the programme RedWhiskey. Jose good, Ole bad.

15.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 09:41:57
Mumbles, that's a pretty pathetic list if we are honest. Matic like you said has just aged so is hard to judge. Bailly played better under Jose by default as he simply hasn't been fit for more than 3 games in a row under Ole to judge how his form is. Lindelof I think was pretty consistent across both managers, we just have better options now.

De Gea I'd agree with, but would say his decline started under Jose, he just continued to slide under Ole. Although this season he has started to pick up his form.

Lingard had that golden spell under Jose, he then went off the boil before Jose left and was in terrible form under Ole until his loan spell last season.

16.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 11:14:37
Then Shappy please explain how a manager with a poor squad who couldn't improve players won trophies and finished a campaign with more points than Ole did?

Jose did some good things, a lot of bad things. This is in regards to a management style and Ole being praised for improving th dressing room. As I said, it's easy to improve morale when you praise the team after being beaten in semi-finals, losing a final and throwing in the towel in the league with 15 games left.

Klopp, Simeone, Pep, Conte, Jose, Tuchel don't accept mediocrity nor reward it.

So far being mates with the players has brought us zero trophies.

17.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 12:27:03
Ajh, surely we can say Jose is a better manager right? I wouldn't have thought that controversial.

Mumbles makes valid points.

But Jose wasn't the right fit for the club.

18.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 13:12:41
I hate this whole ole accepts mediocrity angle. No manager wants to see they’re team do terrible or play badly.

Jose got good results for a short while and he himself cocked it up with his man management and multiple tantrums in the public. The academy went to pot and don’t forget the embarrassment of the pre season tour were he slagged the youngsters. I will admit he wasn’t backed in the way he either was promised or expected but he didn’t cover himself in any glory. If we had the Jose that came to England initially I bet it would have been different. Look how it ended at Spurs.

Regardless of how ole finishes, may that be with titles etc or not he will leave behind a football club in a much better place than he found it. I don’t know if he is the man to bring trophies and the success we all crave, but I much prefer the group of players he has built and the atmosphere around the club is very positive, regardless of what’s posted on here.

For me ole must challenge this season, and go close as an absolute minimum. This whole he accepts mediocrity is a nonsense as I would say he wants to win as much as we do.

19.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 13:40:37
I was being mischievous Angel, I am far from being an Ole fanboy but there are a handful of posters posters can't help themselves, every opportunity to dig him out.

Jose was a great Manager but he seems to have developed personality shortcomings that mean everything becomes very confrontational, he was def not right for us.

Ole is very inexperienced and has surrounded himself with very inexperienced coaches. Seems silly to me.

20.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 14:59:49
Mumbles, as for points they are relative to the other teams in the league. League position is the key thing and not the number of points.

As for the Trophies won, in the league cup we beat Northampton Town, Man City, West ham, Hull and Southampton in the final. Other than a lucky 1-0 win over a City team that played us off the park every other team we played we should have been beating comfortably.

Jose's Europa league win came after beating Zorya Luthansk, Feyenoord, Fenebachce, St Etienne, FC Rostov, Anderlecht, Celta Vigo and Ajax. That is a very easy run to the final with one maybe two ties that could be called "tricky" but games we should be winning.

In the season Jose won two cups with us he also finished 6th in the league with 69 points. He clearly focused more heavily on cups than in the league.

Jose also lost a FA cup final with us to Chelsea.

If you look at the teams Ole has lost to in cup ties to knock us out:

In his half season in 17/ 18 he lost to Sevilla in the UCL, Chelsea in the FA cup and Bristol City in the EFL cup. He shouldn't have lost to Bristol City, but both Sevilla and Chelsea are very good teams with a winning pedigree.

In the 18/ 19 season he lost to Wolves in the FA cup, Barcelona in the UCL and City in the EFL cup. Again he lost to two excellent sides and probably shouldn't have lost to Wolves.

In the 19/ 20 season he lost to City in the EFL cup, Chelsea in the FA cup and Sevilla in the Europa League. Three good teams with a winning pedigree. No team has won the Europa league/ UEFA cup more times than Sevilla's 6 title wins.

Last season (20/ 21) he lost to City in the EFL cup (bit of a pattern emerging), Leicester city in the FA cup (they went on to win it), and Villareal in the Europa league final. City are a better side, Leicester on their day can beat anyone, while we bossed the Europa league final and was unlucky to lose on penalties having had 60% possession, more shots and were the better side (although neither team played well) .

On the whole under Ole we have tended to be knocked out of cups by better sides.

For the two cups Jose won he had to beat just one side that was either on par or better than us against City. A game where they had the majority of possession, had the most shots on and off target, and they pummelled us for 90 minutes and we got a lucky goal.

Fair play to Jose he won them, and you can only beat the teams put in front of you. But in context he was very lucky to not have to face any side that was a serious threat to us bar City.

Ole's cup runs have often come up against teams like Chelsea (x2), City (x3), Barcelona, or Sevilla (x2), Leicester City. Yes we should have beaten Wolves and Bristol City, while we were unlucky against Villareal.

Where you finish in the league is a mark of how well you are doing, winning cups tend to require a certain amount of fortune if not luck. A bad draw or injuries/ suspensions to key players and you could be out.

Jose finished 6th, 2nd, and 6th in the season where he and Ole both managed around half the games each.

Ole has finished 6th (in that half season), 3rd and 2nd.

Ignoring the half season, Jose finished 6th and 2nd, Ole 3rd and 2nd.

21.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 15:54:15
Possibly the worst drivel iv ever read mate.

{Ed001's Note - awww Mumbles, I didn't think it was that bad, I am sure I have written worse....}

22.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 16:52:55
Come on Mumbles put your dummy back in. We know you like Jose, and no one is denying Jose has been a great manager. He was just a terrible choice for us. Just wrong on every level and the way things worked out proved it.

He won two cups, and for that I am thankful, but to win them he had to beat Southampton and Ajax in the finals, the toughest team he played in either cup run was City, of which we lucked a win. The City line up for that game was: Cabellero, Maffeo, Kompany, Otamendi, Clichy, Fernandinho, Garcia, Navas, Sane, Nolito, Iheanacho. A much rested side which for most of the game outplayed us and lost to a lucky Mata goal. Hardly City at their full strength.

Like I said you can only beat the team in front of you. But the fact we finished the season in 6th just highlights that we weren't a great side that season, we just had a bit of luck in the cups.

23.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 16:59:35
We're all guilty of it from time to time ed. But I think that post was so bad it should be stricken from Shappys word count.

{Ed001's Note - you mean Shappy is getting extra from my articles? Well that's just downright cheating!}

24.) 14 Sep 2021
14 Sep 2021 17:37:26
Jose and the Club both let each other down. He needed to go.

This again is about the plethora of excuses you've given to Ole on why he can't get over the line yet hammer Jose for winning "lucky" cups.

I know you're a young fella but moving those goalposts all the time will ruin your back.

Anyways, enjoy the game!