26 Sep 2021 17:27:19
United added two serious winners to the team this summer in Ronaldo and Varane. We have skirted around the subject of what impact they have if they are not happy with what is going on, but let me lay a couple of points out.

Firstly, these players are not local pliable accepting lads, who came through reserves or stepped up to come to United. That makes a difference to how they may need to be handled. Managing and leading a team, a group, are two different skill sets, not every manager is a leader and it is why senior positions often receive specific leadership training. Managers may not be strong leaders, in which case, teams with strong members can get out of control quickly, unless there is the right dynamic and respect.

The dynamic in each team is different, managers have to be sensitive to it, especially when adding new people into it. If new people are added who are very experienced, a manager should expect to be challenged, even just on small things, they will sound out the manager, do they know their stuff? If they do, the new members fall in line, but if they don't their confidence in the manager drops, quickly, even if only a small amount, but it festers until things are not going right, then it can start to come out.

So, how will Ronaldo and Varane perceive what they are seeing, we don't know is the truthful answer, yet if they are not impressed, having worked with far more experienced managers, it is a matter of time before they become frustrated, unless Ole can really demonstrate managerial skills and he has not done so far.

Was the, shall we call it, lethargy some saw yesterday, that people described on here from being at the game, the first sign of concern at the direction by players who really know or players who have talked to ones who really know, what good looks like? Have key players in the dressing room started to become frustrated? The dynamic is important and if it tips even slightly it is very difficult if not impossible to get that confidence back. Normally, you move them on, but with Varane and Ronaldo, that will be very difficult.


1.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 17:36:02
I think we’ve been lethargic for ages Red Man, it’s frustrating how so many stroll around one paced with no urgency. I watch other games and there is energy and pace and directness, all things we seem to have trouble doing consistently, and in some cases at all.

I agree that serial winners will be far more difficult for Ole to manage, it will be interesting how this plays out, we have some very good players now yet still no clear structure of style. Something will give.


2.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 18:02:06
Most of the perceived lethargy when we have the ball comes from the fact that our mdifield and right back have to take 3-4 touches to control the ball.

If we had technically competent players in those positions who can play one, two touch football we would play at a higher tempo and look less lethargic.


3.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 18:04:42
I can only assume from what transpires on the pitch, that our training sessions are poor. We're not well drilled, we don't score from set pieces, we concede from set pieces. We don't look like a team at all.

You're spot on when you say how will Ronaldo and Varane look at how we play? I would say we're miles behind the top clubs in terms of innovation on the training field and with our tactics.

I wrote 18 months ago about what happens when our best player (Bruno at the time) was more ambitious than our manager? We now have added more truly ambitious footballers to the team. The safety first, defensive football, trophies are for egos, not in the title race, cup capitulations, out worked, out thought style of management we've witnessed is alien to these winners.

I would assume you will start to hear how the dressing room is not so happy after all. Because what professional footballer playing for Man Utd would be happy playing for 4th?

Ronaldos gift this time around will be raising the bar too high for Ole to reach.


4.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 19:03:23
Mumbles

Mumbles

Shappys argument is the club will keep Ole, even if he wins nothing, as long as he delivers top four. How will that sit with Varane and Ronaldo? Even others like Bruno, who want to win things? How will we attract top players if the club basically confirm a lack of ambition? It could be argued they have displayed a lack of ambition by keeping Ole this far. You wonder what the selling point was for Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho in summer? Money is but one thing.

If we end up in the Europa league again, I don’t think the club will be at all happy with Ole. Actually, if they think it may happen the pressure rises.


5.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 19:18:21
There is no mystery in relation to Ole’s style of management or style of play.

Ole plays a front 4 that are given the freedom to express themselves and find their own solutions. They aren’t over burdened by defensive responsibility nor expected to press aggressively and try and win the ball back. They fall back into a basic defensive shape when we don’t have the ball but they don’t really help the team win possession or protect the back 4.

The full backs are encouraged to go forward and provide the width from an attacking perspective.

The fabled midfield pivot are expected to bring energy and tenacity to the team. They are expected to win the ball and provide defensive cover when the full backs push forward. McFred are generally the favoured two to perform this role but they lack the quality on the ball to consistently feed the front 4. Other combinations don’t have the legs to cover so I suppose it a choice of which is the lesser of two evils. We don’t keep possession well therefore the front 4 get starved of the ball so even though we have good individuals we struggle to create chances at times because the forwards don’t get enough of the ball. Teams are also able to advance into our final third too easily putting pressure on the back 4. The way I see it we have the back 4, midfield pivot and the front 4 none of which really works together or in harmony. We win games because we have good players but we are not a good team.

We all speculated over the summer that we needed a quick CB so we could play a higher line and press teams higher up the pitch. We signed Varane yet our style of play hasn’t changed.

Ole will continue to win games because we have good players but he’ll never stop the inconsistency because he hasn’t built a good team.

What he has produced is a team now good enough to finish in the top 4 which for some reason previous managers couldn’t. This is obviously beneficial to the club as it safeguards revenue.

Expectation has increased because we have better players but do the decision makers have the nerve to sack a manager who basically delivers what they need?

We all know we’ll never see good football under Ole. What we’ll see are moments of individual quality and short periods in games when the good players click. We’ll continue to see good periods (results wise) followed by bad. Ronaldo and Varane raise expectations and fans are less likely to tolerate disjointed poorly coached football. I’m not convinced the board will act as they always sell us as work in progress and in reality there aspirations don’t really extend beyond a top 4 finish.

Ole could conceivably lose the dressing room and I sense cracks are already to starting to appear. I think in recent games we’ve seen players starting to play for themselves. Running around losing their positional discipline and shooting from ridiculous positions. Sooner or later Ole will face one crisis too many. Rather than the beginning of something great I sense this could be the beginning of the end for Ole. Expectations are high and he can’t deliver.


6.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 19:29:52
Completely agree ajh. I remeber ole promising a team that wouldn't be out run, the fittest team in the league. I think we are the complete opposite, slow, lethargic and quite often out run.
No progression on the pitch in a long time.


7.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 19:36:35
I think it will take us being knocked out of the champions league and not being in a position to qualify for next seasons before they would entertain getting rid of Ole.


8.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 21:05:28
I don’t think it will take being knocked out champions league or being out the hunt for top 4, before they sack Ole, I think you underestimate the situation, I would be very surprised if by Christmas and things are not looking much better then currently, with results and performances he will be gone irrespective of if we are still in Champs league or in top 4 or not.


9.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 21:44:36
Jackamus, I don't think i am underestimating the situation, what we think is a situation is totally different to the owners, as long as we are in the Champions League and top 4 then they have no reason to want to pay him off to get him out.

At the moment Ole has got the backing fully from Club and players and most fans to be honest.


10.) 26 Sep 2021
26 Sep 2021 22:16:31
DSG makes the best and most succinct point in this thread. All boils down to a combination of lack of tactical nous from the manager and his coaches, and a midfield pairing that has no discernible qualities with the exception of being physically fit - the very least I’d expect from a professional athlete.


11.) 27 Sep 2021
27 Sep 2021 07:32:59
I’m really not sure where you get this notion that the club are happy with Top 4 you are considerably wide of the mark there and misinformed I can guarantee that is not the case not now or in the past, ok had no choice but to stabilise and try build and to do that you need to be in top 4, that’s business sense, but if you genuinely think that going forward that top 4 is acceptable…. well not much to be said, just wait and watch….