06 Dec 2021 19:10:41
Just saw this wonderful stat which I thought I would share with you all.

Fred has played 12 games in the EPL this season and scored 2, and assisted 2.

Kane has played 13 EPL games, scoring 1 and assisting 1.

Big love for King Fred, twice the scorer and creator that Harry Kane is this season ???.

1.) 06 Dec 2021
06 Dec 2021 20:44:04
That’s just trawling for stats to make a point though Shappy, but what you must say and for all to see Is Fred was fantastic on Sunday compared to what we seen before… he could even pass to his own team mates, so that’s something new, but on that showing he is in week in week out, let’s just hope he can keep it up.
It was McT’s passing that was wayward on Sunday, soon that showing its McT that needs replacing because we not going to replace both immediately.

2.) 06 Dec 2021
06 Dec 2021 22:00:16
Fred is a work horse who does better with his team mates close to him as opposed to having to make long range passes out of defense. He has been played incorrectly. It comes back to the purchasing of names without a plan, and then shoehorning them into the wrong positions, compounded by a low energy system which does not compress the field adequately.

3.) 06 Dec 2021
06 Dec 2021 22:57:07
I can see why coaches like Fred but punters aren't so convinced. He does all the little niggly things for 90 minutes and is relentless. His moments of quality in terms of goals/ assists are few and far between but we've spent a small fortune on players here to add those. I'm not convinced he wasn't signed to play further up as he does for Brazil and has for previous teams and has ended up being moulded into this deeper position. But if he can add more performances like the last few, I'm going to say it. he's worth a place at least.

4.) 07 Dec 2021
06 Dec 2021 23:31:14
If i was being generous to Fred he does play for Brazil next to either Casemiro or Fabinho who are two of the best holding/ defensive midfielders in the world, where as at United he plays with Mctominay who plays as an auxiliary centre back for Scotland. So maybe if we signed a top DM he could be a long term starter for us.

But that being said i think his touch and passing quality will always hold him back and hinder our ability to build up play.

5.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 00:44:06
I agree with all that DSG, he’s got a lovely smile though hasn’t he.

6.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 06:56:46
Fred can be a good squad player.
He has useful qualities for the new system.
With proper coaching and tactical awareness, many of the players get a clean slate.

7.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 09:52:55
Football is a game with many different faces. Styles, tactics, systems, and combinations of players skill sets all come together into the mixing pot. Meaning one player can look world class in one team that plays a certain style/ system/ tactics but absolutely terrible in another team that plays entirely differently.

Think of the number of times we have signed a player who is too class elsewhere, only for them to struggle or even "flop" here with us.

Kagawa and Mkhitaryan were phenomenal at Dortmund in a pressing system, but just never cut the mustard here with us in a more possession/ counter attacking systems.

Veron was one of the best midfielders in the world in the slower paced Serie A, but in the hurly burly of the EPL struggled to control and dictate a match in the way he could in Italy.

Donny came from a team that was more measured and careful with the ball, a team that played as a unit. He has struggled to show his best form at United because we tend to try and rush transitions, play at a higher pace, taking more risks and less as a team and more as individuals.

Fred looked good playing for Shakhtar Donesk, a side that played a more pressing direct style of play with their players playing much closer to eachother. While he has often struggled to match those performances in England with United, where the spaces between players have been bigger, longer passes are required, while in a league that gives you less time on the ball unchallenged.

Maybe Fred will be perfect for Rangnick's system and become a key player for us.

People forget all players have weaknesses to their game, areas that they struggle with. If they play in a system that highlights those shortcomings then they will struggle to show there best qualities. However, if the system covers for or masked those weaknesses then they can look top class.

Fred personally I think will be a more natural fit into the kind of system Rangnick looks to play than Donny. While Donny's technical skills will aide him, his passing is naturally more risk adverse, while he would be better in a more possession oriented team. He's great at finding pockets of space to enable the progression of the ball. While Rangnick's system is set up more for his side to control a game without possession of the ball.

8.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 13:58:30
"While Rangnick's system is set up more for his side to control a game without possession of the ball. "; not sure about that Shappy but I take your general point.

It was clear from the first 30 minutes on Saturday that Rangnick likes to push the team further up and compress the space. With these shorter passing distances we might find a midfield of Fred and DVB could thrive.

The other factor which you've not mentioned is coaching; can Fred be coached to have a better first touch and passing accuracy?

9.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 14:57:34
MancMan, Rangnick's style looks to counter press and attack a side BEFORE they transition back into their defensive shape.

Therefore having long periods of possession is counterproductive as that gives the opposition plenty of time to move back into their defensive shape.

Broadly football can be spilt into two phases, with the ball and without the ball.

Possession based managers will look to control the game with the ball. The thought process being that if the opposition don't have the ball then they aren't attacking you and you've neutralised the threat. While also having the ball means you can use it to draw the opposition out of their shape to create overloads.

While managers like Rangnick looks to control the space on the pitch and not the ball. By denying the opposition space to play in you limit what they can do with the ball, and keep them in their half of the pitch where they are never going to score against you from. Rangnick doesn't need the ball and is happy for the opposition to have it, as long as they have it in non-dangerous parts of the pitch. By denying the opposition space to move in one area of the pitch they can't overload that area as it becomes too congested to play through. You force them to move the ball where you want, then you spring your pressing trap and win the ball back. With Rangnick he'll then look to play the ball forward as fast as possible to get a shot away on goal within 10 seconds. More speculative shots will be accepted, as losing possession isn't something that is a problem for this style of play.

Obviously coaching plays a massive part in improving players, this does however come with a caveat. Great teachers can only educate those who are open and willing to learn.

Those that want to learn, that want to improve, that want to develop will do under Rangnick. He is one of the best football educators working in the game today. That is why you see players and coaches all massively improve while working with him.

While technical things like first touch, passing, shooting, heading technique etc are things that can be improved, they tend to take time.

I wouldn't expect to see someone like Fred at his age massively improve his first touch for example.

What Rangnick excels at is improving the brain of the players, he educates them on the game, improves their understanding and even works on improving their cognitive processing. Meaning players can read situations quicker and react quicker, making smarter decisions.

That's an area Fred could thrive in, he often comes across as a player whose body moves faster than his brain. He sees a situation developing and reacts but doesn't seem to know what to do once he wins the ball. Improving his thinking and how quickly he thinks could unlock a very good player in him.

It'll be interesting to see which players make leaps forward and which fall by the wayside.

10.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 16:23:46
But that all don’t work in a short term project Shappy…. But like I said pre he won’t go after 6 months upstairs or anywhere else he will stay as manager

The other thing of course is to train the brain of course you have to have a brain to start with…so here is a problem for some!

11.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 18:56:13
Good explanation that Shappy, thanks for taking the time. I'm still not sure how that exerts 'control' but I guess I will see it for myself soon enough.

Thing is with the approach you are describing, surely it can be countered with quick forwards and long balls in behind which means Utd have a totally unsuitable goalkeeper.

12.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 19:33:25
He got it completely wrong it’s for the Clock set up, on the training pitch, which Ralf is known for…. win ball back in certain seconds and shot off in 10 seconds, for training not for every time you win the ball in real match…dear dear Shappy.

13.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 19:18:29
You got that wrong Shappy, it’s only training drills for 10 second shot off policy.

14.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 21:00:57
MancMan, it's controlling space. If the opposition cannot get into your half of the pitch then they won't be able to score.

Something like 90% of all goals are scored from within the penalty area.

Less than 1% of goals are scored more than 35 yards away from goal.

Refuse the opposition entry into those areas with the ball is to control the game.

Ralf does it with zonal marking, manipulation of space and organised pressing.

Jens, have you ever coached? Have you ever been coached? Why do you think you have training drills?

It is to prepare you for how your manager wants to play and react in live match situations.

Ralf trains his players with the clock because he wants them to replicate that in games.

Surely that's fairly obvious?

15.) 07 Dec 2021
07 Dec 2021 23:23:45
I see what you're talking about Shappy and I'll be looking for it in the coming games. Interesting stuff!

16.) 08 Dec 2021
08 Dec 2021 07:53:50
Shappy have you ever been coached at aprofessional or even semi professional level.
Have you got uefa coaching badges?
You have no idea.
It's a training drill designed to focus the mind.
Training drills of are not all designed to be brought into a match situation .
Keep ball training drills without goals are not brought into match situations as there are goals on most match day pitches.
Keepy uppy is not in matches but is fine every day in training.
5 a side matches Halen in training daily but never in a match day.
Your talking absolute nonsense.

17.) 08 Dec 2021
08 Dec 2021 08:15:32
Jens,

What do you think training is? Lol.

18.) 08 Dec 2021
08 Dec 2021 10:11:28
Yes Ken I have. I've done my level 1 and level 2 FA coaching courses. The next level (3) is UEFA B, then UEFA A with UEFA pro license being the top level.

I've not done level 3 as it cost around £5k and I'm not prepared to pay out of my own pocket for it. Especially as the only real reason to do it is to go on and do the level 4 and 5 qualifications which are even more expensive.

For both level 1 and 2 we were coached by and assessed by coaches with either a UEFA B or UEFA A license.

So I have been both coached and educated by people at the professional level.

What badges do you hold?

{Ed007's Note - Gee Shappy, there's more badges & coaches in there than accounts Jens/Jackmus has set up to troll you recently!}

19.) 08 Dec 2021
08 Dec 2021 10:54:29
Ed007, I do tend to pick up a few "admirers" ?.

{Ed007's Note - ??

20.) 08 Dec 2021
08 Dec 2021 11:08:10
Ed007, I have had several posters either set up different accounts or only post on my posts over the past 6 months or so.

They should all get together and make a Shappy Trolls club, although when they all get together in a room they might find there are less of them than they thought.

{Ed007's Note - They aren't the brightest mate, their writing style and use of certain words gives them away all the time.}

21.) 08 Dec 2021
08 Dec 2021 23:11:18
I knew I recognised the way Jackanus was typing, hilarious.