Manchester United Banter Archive December 10 2019

 

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10 Dec 2019 23:09:26
What do people think of sancho?
A bit like maddison i was not totally sold on him at first but the more i watch him the better i like him.
He is always looking to get involved he goes on search of the ball. And is always trying to do something positive either on the ball or with his movement off it. He played spells on both wings tonight and was excellent on both. With a goal and ' true' assist.
Prices don't matter to me at all anymore. When maguire goes for 80m or dembele for 90m then the market is potty. We will pay over the odds but won't pay more than we can afford.
I do think we need some experienced players but sancho looks a bit special to me. We only have 3 snr attacker's and having sancho as a 4th who plays in a simialar way to our current 3 allows rotation, injury cover, loss of form, suspensions etc. Add an improving greenwood into that and possibly an old hand in the mould of Henrik Larson when he came in that is happy to play a supporting role but be an integral part of the squad for 18 months that you know you can rely on to come on and make an impact. Its tough to find the right sort of character or player that is motivated by that type of role. Is manzukic that man? I've no idea. But getting the right one could be invaluable to our young attackers.
Midfield is the the other area of main concern.
Matic a likely departure in jan and out in the cold anyway.
Pogba. Still wants to leave will be available for selection within 2 weeks.
Ed002 has said we will get an offer of manzukic and cann plus cash for pogba and chong.
Cann is pretty run of the mill for me. A bit of a nearly man. Solid enough, tecnically sound decent experience and would provide suitable rotation and competition with fred and mctom. Leaving room for a 4th and hopefully your 1st choice in the summer.
Saul would be my 1st choice SmS very different type of player. But he would be my second. Both young but great experience both have something classy about them.
A/ M (10)
Jesse andreas and mata the latter 2 for me i don't see any future for them at United.
So who? Maddison / erikson /.

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11 Dec 2019 01:11:49
sancho for england looks prety ordinary. rather stick with james on right he looks like he is special and spend money elsewhere.

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11 Dec 2019 04:34:06
Agree with you Ken.
Jadon Sancho has excellent end product. Always a goal threat and tries to make something happen.
First touch, technique, quick feet, dribbling in tight areas - all fantastic attributes.
Considering he is young, his decision making is also pretty good most of the time. He will be worth the investment imo as he is not even close to his peak.

Saul would be a dream signing. He will instantly elevate our quality in midfield.
Maddison will most probably be priced out by Leicester.
Ed002 stated that we are still interested in Bruno Fernandes. Christian Eriksen is also a possibility. Either of those 2 at no 10 would be a massive improvement on Lingard/ Mata/ Andreas.

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11 Dec 2019 08:46:28
I will stay clear of sancho for now. The hype is more than the actual delivery. He is 19, will a move to utd stagger his growth (Depay comes to mind)? I'd wait till he is 23+ and try to get him, if possible.

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mbd              

11 Dec 2019 08:54:41
I'd definitely buy a right sided attacker ken, James has done well and its good to see us attack from both sides but one injury to rash or james and we are straight back to fill ins that have got us nowhere for years .
If you have no interest in the money side of it and just want a right sided attacker then why not Sancho it's only when you add the has he done enough for a sky high fee that you may pause .
Manzucic and caan I'd have no interest in personally I get the impression they are players juv happy to get rid of .
I'd like us to concentrate on players ready for the first team and not squad options.

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11 Dec 2019 09:04:11
Sancho on the pitch for Dortmund looks already at an elite level, yet he hasn't as yet been able to transfer that form to playing with England.

We have seen several players look amazing for Dortmund in the past few years only for them to look not as good when they've moved elsewhere. I'm thinking Kagawa, Gotze, Mkhitaryan and Dembele. All similar attacking players. What I've loved about Dortmund in recent years is the teams ability to play beyond the sum of their parts. They have taken decent players, and made them look great, while also developing young players into world class players.

Alcacer, Witsel, Schmelzer, Kehl, Adrian Ramos, Weidenfeller, Subotic and Bender who all fit in the first category of good players who looked great at Dortmund. As does Kagawa and Mkhitaryan.

You then have young players who have developed to world class or very close to, such as Gundogan, Hummels, Lewandowski, Weigl and Reus.

Gotze and Dembele are interesting cases as they clearly had/ have world class talent, but they have struggled when they moved to a bigger club. Maybe they had the talent but not the mentality, although to be fair to both of them they did/ have suffered with injuries while at Bayern/ Barcelona.

The question is would Sancho be third time lucky for us or would we get our fingers burned again with a signing from Dortmund. Apparently Dortmund are happy enough to sell him, and he has shown on a few occasions to have a questionable attitude.

Player attitude is something that should be of vital importance to us when signing players as we have in recent years spent huge amounts of money on players with questionable attitudes, only for them to not work out as we had hoped.

A similar player but much less talked about is Dani Olmo the young Spanish international playing at Dinamo Zagreb. A hybrid winger/ No.10 who has pace along with intelligent passing and movement. Was the player of the tournament at the Under 21 euros last summer, works harder off the ball than Sancho as well from what I've seen. So there are other options out there.

Maddison though for me is the one we really need to go all out for. He is versatile, able to play as an 8, 10 or on the wing. Was the most creative player in the EPL last season as the only player to make more than 100 goal scoring chances for his team mates, works hard off the ball and has that nasty edge about him, which is something our side lacks currently.

I would choose Maddison over Sancho every day of the week.

If we signed Sancho I would feel much the same as I did when we signed Pogba, over the moon that we had signed a potentially world class player, but have a small niggle that he might lack the attitude required to achieve that potential. Only time will tell where Sancho's path takes him.

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11 Dec 2019 10:16:44
You just never know if people will be a success. Look at Abraham, he looked ok last year in the Championship but he’s been tearing up the League this year. Did any of us expect James to be first choice and playing as well as he is.

I’m not sold on Sancho yet, and if we sign him whose place is he taking? Maddison looks good but the numbers being quoted at the moment are ludicrous.

Look at our squad, the most consistent performers right now are Rashford (academy), Scott (academy) and AWB (big money) . Also impressing is James (bargain) . Fred at £50M is just about getting it together after a long time and Maguire has been ok but not the dominant leader I was expecting. Min recent years we have signed so many players who arrived, disappointed, and left.

We bought pretty well last time and if we can add another 3 who can contribute the way the last 3 have then we will take another step up. As I said though, until they get here you just never know.

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11 Dec 2019 11:36:02
What happens with James if we go for Sancho or are we looking to get 4 players of quality to fill the wide attacking roles. My only issue with this if if rotating does any of them get in a groove.
Also James brought cheap with massive upside is surely the model so why stunt it, and I say this as a fan of Sancho.
Spend on the AM/ 10 role if Pogba is gone.

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11 Dec 2019 12:41:33
Brad, its a squad game and currently our biggest weakness is a lack of depth in our squad. We need more than 3 forwards if we are going to succeed at all.

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11 Dec 2019 13:00:36
I would personally steer clear of Sancho for the price quoted, i would look elsewhere for squad depth. Adama Traore wouldn't be a bad option either. Can run, Dribble and Cross, not a bad player IMO.

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11 Dec 2019 13:55:01
I like him Becks. He's starting to get clever and developing an end product.

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11 Dec 2019 18:12:32
Daz and Brad. Do you expect rash and james to play every game. Very few players start more than 40 games a season if you have rash james plus 1 that's 40 starts a year each in a 60 game season.
If you would rather stick with what we have them we won't mount a league challenge as the squad is not strong enough.
Mmm why did city sign silva when they had mahrez sterling and sane?

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11 Dec 2019 19:51:41
greenwood can come in and do a job. for the money being quoted rather fix midfield first and then look for another forward in the summer. see were we end up and then look for players who whant to join us.

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12 Dec 2019 04:15:34
Yes Shappy.
City have 2 top options for every position.

Aguero and Jesus for striker.
Bernardo and Mahrez on right side of attack. Sterling and Sane on left side.

Moreover, these top players can come off the bench and change the game.
It also keeps the squad fresh when the team plays 2 matches in a week - League and Europe.

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10 Dec 2019 23:08:44
Not United related but i find the ancelotti sacking strange and particularly timing wise.

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11 Dec 2019 04:31:07
I think there’s been a big fall out at Napoli with the president based on the commentary from one of their recent ucl games.

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11 Dec 2019 07:27:27
There has been a fall out of some sort regarding the players and the owner. During the last international break the owner wanted the players to go on a retreat and they refused. It is mayhem by the looks of it. Quite surprised Ancelotti got sacked but I doubt he will struggle to get a job after this.

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11 Dec 2019 09:07:23
Massive fallout at Napoli behind the scenes, typical of the owner to wait until qualification to the last 16 is confirmed before sacking Ancelotti. Who's card was marked weeks ago when the fallout happened.

I think Ancelotti will find it easier to get a job of similar stature to Napoli than Napoli will finding a manger of similar stature to Ancelotti come in.

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11 Dec 2019 14:05:32
Shappy, my grammar head hurts from that last sentence 😁.

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12 Dec 2019 04:26:34
lol Noucamp :)

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12 Dec 2019 07:33:54
Yeah, Stevie. I totally forgot to add any in. Lol. I'm actually dyslexic, although an odd one who likes reading and spends a long time writing large posts🤪.
I'm unable to put the grammar in while I write. I have to write a whole sentence, then go back over it and add any grammar that needs inserting.
I think I forgot to go over that last sentence 🤦‍♂️, what I can say is it sounded great in my head😂.

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12 Dec 2019 13:29:23
Awful excuse 😉.

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See You Next Thursday

10 Dec 2019 20:20:06
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new podcast entitled, See You Next Thursday

Believable0 Unbelievable0

10 Dec 2019 17:31:27
Hi Ed002,

Would really like your view on this. Alex Ferguson was a fantastic manager - but did not do too much of the coaching. His great strength was man management/ motivating etc. Left the coaching to others. You have made frequent references to OGS being a second rate coach [or words to that effect? ]. However, do you think he has the potential to be a good manager.? This is a genuine question with no intention of offending or winding anyone up. Thanks in advance and keep up the excellent work.

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{Ed002's Note - I don't think he does have that potential. He is not good enough and was a mistake.}

10 Dec 2019 18:35:16
I agree with Ed.

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10 Dec 2019 19:01:10
With all respect to him, he should never have got the job in the first place.
Keane was at the training ground last week and had a talk with the players, apparently one player was thrown down slouched in the chair like a dead dog, martial. And Keane had a right go at him telling him what was expected of you as a man united player
Don't know much about oles management but I'd say too nice a bit of a yes man.

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10 Dec 2019 20:20:17
Who let Keane into the training ground?, Sounds like bull to me.

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10 Dec 2019 20:34:38
He was invited by the manager, it isn't bull.

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10 Dec 2019 20:50:15
He should be in there a lot more.

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10 Dec 2019 22:18:06
Anyone would think we lost on Saturday.

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11 Dec 2019 10:01:04
You were there for it Leahy? When did mirror and metro begun being our best sources?

I really hope ole wasn't stupid enough to invite that bully for anything.

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11 Dec 2019 11:56:49
Or CSM, may be Ole isn't capable of doing so himself so he required someone who he remembered kicked his butt few years ago :D.

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11 Dec 2019 13:09:31
So when Sir Alex brings in tactically astute assistant managers to work on new tactics and training methods he's a genius for knowing his limitations and finding a solution.

Then why isn't Ole being praised for using his connections and finding someone to come in and give the team exactly what they needed.

The issue our players have had is they've needed a kick up the backside, but have turned against whoever does it. Bringing someone from the outside to come in and be the bad cop could be a very astute move. It gives the players what they need, but doesn't give them someone to turn against.

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11 Dec 2019 15:57:41
shappy being able to motivate players is the primary job of the manager you can't outsource it to someone else.

I am not against a manager bringing in ex players/ managers for pep talks or motivation but the choice should be sensible, bringing someone else in just to criticize your team would be 1st lesson on how not to manage any group of people, not just footballers. I don't think ole or anyone else in any business is that stupid.

Keane would be the 1st name on the list of players not to bring in to provide motivation, imagine if you have to listen to someone motivate you and that person goes on tv everyweek and calls you names. Are you really going to be interested in what he/ she has to say to you?

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11 Dec 2019 18:06:45
Csm. The results in the 2 games since would suggest you are talking bolloxology.
He was there and he did call 1 player out for his demeanour on the day . He didn't name said player. as confirmed by keane's radio interview on Monday.
He is the ideal man for a one off pep talk.
Not the ideal man to have their all the time as his tolerance levels will never allow him to become a top manager again proved by his various stints and subsequent fallouts.
Vidic and fletch have been in before too to give their input in oct.
I mate of mine roomed with brian mcClair a month ago at a legends function. He said he wanted united to go for poch but that the club have no appetite for changing from ole at this time.

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10 Dec 2019 09:56:23
Our current situation reminds me a lot of Rodgers first couple of seasons at Liverpool.

Some good signs, good players maturing, a few world class talents but very inconsistent. We may have some good runs but lots of inconsistencies.

I could really see the next manager benefiting for a lot of the decisions Ole is making now.

Similar to how Klopp has taken them lot up a numbers of levels now over a period of time.

My heart wants Ole evolves into an elite manager but my head is not so sure.

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{Ed047's Note - not being funny but who are the world class players?

10 Dec 2019 10:09:24
I think you could make a fair argument for Rashford, Pogba, AWB, de Gea imo. (Rash and AWB might be earlier but based on where they are this season) .

Pogba - not in our shirt but World Cup performances is enough to back up.

Tier below would be Maguire, Lindelof, Fred, Martial, McTom.
Some very good players coming through in James, Tuanzabe, Greenwood,

I’d say there’s arguably a better squad considering some of the players Rodgers had at Liverpool.

Most elite level teams in the world would take these guys, just goes to show the level of underperformance and inconsistency that we are seeing.

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10 Dec 2019 10:09:29
DeGea and Pogba are world class no matter what people saya bout Pogba but he is still a serious talent.

Rashford, Martial and AWB have got the talent to be world class.

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10 Dec 2019 10:26:56
Ed047,

Correct, you aren't being funny.

DDG one of the best goalkeepers in the world

AWB one of the best young right backs in the world, you'll struggle to find a better tackler at the moment.

There are also a variety of other young players who have the potential to be world class. Rashford is showing signs of it, Martial is a great finisher just not consistent enough in his performances yet.

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{Ed047's Note - Ahh, De Gea and then you are stuck with one of the best tacklers and potential so you’re right I’m not being funny, I’m was actually being correct.

But don’t let that steam up the old red tinted’s eh.

10 Dec 2019 10:57:11
Ed047, there’s too many united fans that refuse to expect that our players simply aren’t anywhere near a world class level.

De Gea is one of the best keepers in the world. Aside from that we have a lot of raw potential. But raw potential requires excellent coaching. What we have is a set of young inexperienced coaches flanked by a journey man.

Players like Martial have stagnated at the club, and will never reach their potential. I think we seriously need to re-evaluate how good our players are, and think about the quality of coaching required to transform raw talent into consistent quality.

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{Ed047's Note - I know Danny and I don’t disagree with any of that, I really like AWB and he genuinely does have potential but as fans we can get so carried away with the term “World Class”

To be fair most clubs have raw potential and so very few come to fruition.

Some you know will make it, like Mbappe, Owen or Rooney but most are just a hope.

There’s little doubt the top coaches improve their players and if you don’t have that, as we had with Emery, they go nowhere.

10 Dec 2019 11:45:01
Since we are on the topic, what qualifies a player as world class?

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mbd              

10 Dec 2019 11:50:35
For me it’s a player that could reasonably expect to be a pivotal player in any top team in any of Europe’s top leagues, and consistently performs at a high standard.

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10 Dec 2019 13:02:47
Utd Road - I too want Ole to succeed.
He is bringing in core values back to the club such as promoting youth and out working teams.
Seems very honest, humble and breathes United.

Hopefully he grows into the role and take the club back to the top.

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10 Dec 2019 13:53:04
It has to be the top 4 or 5 players in a position in world football.

Would anyone deny that Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe, Neymar, Sterling, Mane, Salah, Rashford etc etc are in a world class bracket?

Goodd luck fitting them all in one team though!

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10 Dec 2019 14:51:03
I remember the good old days when you had figos, zidanes, batistutas, ronaldo, rivaldo the list went on and you never heard the words world class. One of the most overused worlds in football these days.

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10 Dec 2019 16:02:57
maradona there is a player that can drag a team on to better things.

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10 Dec 2019 16:59:52
I wouldn't say neymar was world class. It is an over used term.

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{Ed025's Note - i agree mort..

10 Dec 2019 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 10th December 2019

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10 Dec 2019 09:32:14
Personally I don't agree with Michel Der Zakarian. Showboating is part of the game which some fans adore. I remember Denilson's time wasting dribbles, Zakarian would have had his head.

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{Ed001's Note - I hate showboating, unless it leads to a goal. I hate seeing players time waste, it just winds up the opposition and often ends up with someone getting hurt. I certainly have no problem with people booting Neymar for it, he brings it on himself.}

mbd