Manchester United Banter Archive September 10 2013

10 Sep 2013 19:20:07
So apparently Shinji Kagawa has voiced his concerns on playing time under David Moyes. From Sly sports source!
Moyes must see Kagawas talent so why play the likes of Ryan (move out the way and let youngster play) Giggs. Watched Kagawa in the Bundesliga and he was awesome for BVD. If he doesn't figure as much as he should do this season then his comments on commiting his desire to stay at Utd rather than return to BVD may soon change. Not only is moyes not attracting good players he is wasting the talent of some (shinji, januzaj, lingard, cole, powell, chica) to play Cleverley, Anderson and Giggs. i'm right behind the team and know it won't be easy this season with other clubs adding to there squads. But I don't think a few of the young lads should be going out on loan. I know the experience of playing game after game will help with their improvement, but why not use the league and league cup to give them this experience. a lot may shoot me down over these comments but once again i'm still behind the team, manager and club. My thoughts were if Moyes wanted to add to the squad but was unsuccessful then why not promote youth. Thoughts any 1

Moyes himself said he would play the younger players if he didn't get the signings he wanted. Let's see if he meant it!

We are 3 very tough games into the season mate, which game would you have played larnell cole in? The Liverpool away game?

What about Kagawa GDS? why didn't he play him or have Zaha even on bench?

It beggars belief doesn't it GDS!

Long summer with hardly any rest Devil Dust. I wish people would stop going on about Kagawa, eveyone is getting worried about nothing. He's a class player, probably our best midfield and has potential to get even better. It's only three games into the season and like GDS said they've all been hard games where bigger, stronger, more experienced players with a summer rest were always going to get played. Giggs is like having a manager on the pitch he tells people where they need to be and what they need to be doing so it's no surprise to see him picked in the first few big games at the start of Moyes' new era. Kagawa will get played very soon and is likely to start most games.

Morning. The comments made by kagawa are very worrying. He is obviously fit and ready to go, and yet we choose to play Giggs ahead of him. It is truly ridiculous.
Having just travelled a long way, will he be in the starting line up against palace? I doubt it.
I think Moyes has got to think long and hard about what he wants from our midfield, because the performance against Liverpool was pathetic.
On a different note, young and cleverly came on for England last night and immediately misplaced passes and/or passed backwards. So if we allow kagawa to leave while the likes of young and cleverly are there, then I think we will be in trouble.
Nomidfield

Agree nomidfield but we knew all summer we would be in trouble without bringing some quality into the middle

10 Sep 2013 17:54:48
Kagawa really does seem frustrated, and rightly so. If Moyes doesn't use him soon, and properly then we really are going to lose a gem of a player next summer. I will be furious if we let him leave and keep Young.

I believe Dortmund made an approach for Kagawa over the Summer which was obviously refused. Maybe Kagawa might regret not trying to push it thru.

The problem is the handover I reckon Fresh.

Fergie signed some real dross toward the end of his career, or players that just stopped progressing when they joined us for some reason, (Young, Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves (Injury), Buttner, Bebe, I'm sure there are more). Do you think he oversold the qualities of some of his players to Moyse, so Moyse is sticking with them to try and not rock the apple cart?

After all Fergie wouldn't want to admit he has left us with far too many failures and old timers, we just won the league - but that was fortune making up for the season before.

Nani 5 year contract is what scares me most, but also the old guard being used when Kagawa isn't - shocking decisions. Maybe Moyse isn't in total control yet.

'MrSwee'

I'm hoping that its fitness that has been the concern. If he starts against Palace and Giggs doesn't then a lot of fears can be aligned. The press are making a lot of it, but it is clear he is not happy. Now he is nearing fitness and has had a break we have to see what Moyes does with him.

Its my opinion that moyes is playing it safe with players Fergie trusted as he doesn't want to lose many games early on as pressure will mount. That said I hope he gives Kagawa, zaha and januzaj the opportunity to impress and show they can be trusted. I hope Kagawa plays the next game as I don't think there will be a big issue once he gets his chance (I think Kagawa not having a pre season due to other commitments also has a bearing on moyes not playing him yet)

Fresh, it is a worry as he has now publically stated his frustration after the Japan game. I agree totally, I will be spitting feathers if he goes and the likes of Young are still here.

I think he will start against Palace, maybe even Zaha will as well. Hopefully they will shine and it's a good one to get them going in.

Moyes must be spending a bit of his time looking at what some fan reaction is like and will want to keep us onside. Palace is the perfect game to show his desire to evolve.

Nothing to do with fitness, if he can travel half way round the world and star for japan then he's match fit

10 Sep 2013 16:19:00
Januzaj included in U-19 uefa youth squad. Doubt he will be loaned out

10 Sep 2013 09:33:09
Did you guys read "a day in the life of ed woodward"? It describes the transfer deadline day, was very funny. Will surely lighten up your mood.

I googled it and its top, very good piece that

Someone should mail the link to the Glazers and "The Equaliser" maybe it would get a rise

I googled it and its top, very good piece that

Someone should mail the link to the Glazers and "The Equaliser" maybe it would get a rise

That is brilliant. Seems a little to realistic and detailed to be fiction.

Just read it hilarious.

I posted this the other day but never made it to the forum "Watch spurs board room and ozil" hilarious.

10 Sep 2013 07:17:38
To compare Berbatov to Eric as someone has done down the page is ridiculous. Berbatov is clearly talented but his contributions were sporadic and apart from fleeting moments, it always felt like he wasn't really sure he belonged at United. Yes he scored 30 goals which shows how talented he was and I'm not trying to do HM down, but to compare him to Cantona is a step too far. Cantona had a presence and aura that I have rarely seen. Meh joined a team in pain after losing the title, a team that was stumbling and struggling to find fluidity. He's contribution both on and off the pitch was stunning.

Berbatov is a quality player, but he slowed the attack down too much and in the end didn't suit our game.

I echo your sentiments old man. There is no one and absolutely no one who can be deemed charismatic enough to be compared to the king. King Eric revolutionized an under performing team that had its spirit down in the dumps. He was our spine. Some of his comments ala "I fear they will stop singing my name someday" still bring a chill to my spine.

I like Berba, nice fella, but then which player in modern day football has the aura to match Eric's. Not even Wayne Rooney ;) for me! Now that's saying something about how much I love the Frenchman.

Deeps.

I was comparing playing styles not quality, they both played with that elegance and intelligence to bring others into the game and make the game go at their own pace, obviously they are worlds apart in what they achieved and their effectiveness. It's like saying Nani is similar to Ronaldo, just one is far better than the other, if you get what I mean.

In big games cantona usually delivered but the same could not be said for berbatov. That said he was a model professional and a very skillful player but never reached cantona level {Ed007's Note - I'd say Berbatov's smoking rules him out of being classed a 'model professional'.}

Ed007 I didn't know he smoked so scrub my model professional comment. {Ed007's Note - I thought everyone knew that buddy. He is a great player as you say and in the right system would probably be lauded as 'world class', but his off-field lifestyle leaves a lot to be desired IMO.}

Ed007 no I don't pay much attention to players off field actions but you eds informing us of things like that is just one of the many reasons I visit and appreciate the work you do. {Ed007's Note - Thanks very much.}

10 Sep 2013 06:57:33
Reported in the news "Manchester United boss David Moyes is ready to shake up his scouting system after being stung by criticism following the club's failure to make a big impact in the summer transfer window and is ready to bring in his own tried and trusted talent spotters."

Given the changes in the back room staff if Moyes changes the scouting set up as well then it goes against one of the benefits we were sold about Moyes appointment, the continuity. If this report is accurate then I am becoming concerned that Moyes is too focused on how "successful" his Everton overall team were rather than the team he inherited as successful champions.

I listened to Comolli on the radio who interestingly argued the scouting and youth coaching set up should remain constant despite changes in first team management and cited Bayern as one example. I am uncomfortable with more major changes now, adjustments ok but major changes no.

I was totally against Moyes appointment but support the club and will give him some time, but he must realise that bringing in more of his Everton coaching, scouting and first team is not encouraging. City brought in people from Barcelona, Moyes is looking longingly at Everton. Much as I admire Everton as a club Moyes needs to understand we are not Everton.

I'm sorry Red Man, but what's to say an Everton scout is no better than a MU scout or Barcelona scout? They are all human beings with opinions. Who's to say one human being is better than another at judging a player? {Ed001's Note - maybe United's version of FM is more up to date than Everton's? Certainly Everton use Football Manager's scouting database to help them pick players to have a closer look at, which does suggest, at the very least, a shortage of scouts, even if it doesn't really tell us about the quality of them. As for Comolli, he knows nothing, I really wouldn't listen to a word he says, as it is clear to all that United's youth policy is desperately in need of a revamp. It needs an investment in the coaching side of things, Ferguson did a lot for United, but he was never a coach and he didn't really get involved on that side of things. Unfortunately that has meant it was reliant on people who might only have a job for two years, so they didn't prioritise the youth, as it takes so long for that to bear fruit.}

Hi Ed001, How are you? MU over the years have had many academy players make the senior side. More so than any of the other EPL sides. So when you say a revamp of the youth set up, what do you mean exactly. Warren Joyce is very highly regarded and the one's before that were too. What needs to change in your opinion? {Ed001's Note - hi Syd, yes there were a lot over the years, but it is gradually getting less and the quality is dipping. Joyce is decent enough, but he is one man and the whole thing can not be left to just him! It needs a serious rebuild, with the focus on player's technique and ability, lowering the focus on their fitness and physique. Though, under Moyes, the focus of the first team will be higher on the fitness and physique, the youth suffer more from injuries etc by doing too much of it. This was one of the problems that was seeing their youth team players struggle, they were overworked and that can destroy a body that has not fully grown. This is why we see players like Welbeck and Cleverley breaking through, Welbeck is physically fantastic, but his technique is inconsistent, at best. At the end of the day, their fitness and strength will increase just playing matches, so spend their training times on more technique based training, with the focus on smaller balls. The best players, when I was a kid, were the ones that used a tennis ball, rather than a full sized football, when they were playing games. George Best, for instance, spent hours kicking a tennis ball around. The basics still stay the same and that should be the main focus for me.}

I am not sure a serious rebuild is necessary. If MU want to change the way we play then they only need to change a few of the coaches at youth level. The facilities are state of the the art and Carrington has everything you could want. If MU feel it's necessary to change the way the kids are taught, then only a change of staff is required.

Very interesting comments ed001, a really great insight into how we train! Thanks :)

I remember one Saturday we were playing Sunderland at old Trafford in the cup.Not long to go we were getting beat 3-1.Gergie Bests boot came off in a tackle.he picked it up and carried it in his hand then proceeded to score .We drew 3-3.After another draw at Sunderland we then hammered them 5-1 I think at Forests ground.My fondest memory though is as follows.We moved from Manchester to near Blackpool.I started playing for the Norbreck Hydro Fc in the local Sunday league.We trained 2 nights a week, after training we used the hotel facilities.Those days United used to go away midweek to The hydro, train on the beach for a couple of days.
After our training at night a gang of us walked into the hydros bar and a lot of the united players were there.
to our amazement George was drop kicking 2 shilling pieces into David Sadlers jacket top pocket it was awesome.We just stood in awe.I will remember it for the rest of my life.they chatted to us like we were part of the squad.I somehow do not think that Rooney and co would give the same response today.I still smile in amazement that Giggs has been voted Uniteds greatest ever player. Not even close to Georgie or the incomparable Duncan Edwards

This is what we were told to do at Rotherham (I was a community coach at Rotherham United) whenever we went to schools we were told to take the smaller balls even for kids who were 14, 15, 16. Even though at that age they "should" be playing with size 5 balls we had them playing with sizes 3, it was the same with the academy. Great theory, seemed to work too.

Ed 001, how does our youth system/academy compare with others? Who do you rate as the best in UK/Europe? {Ed001's Note - it is a decent level for an English side, though it has dropped from being the best in the country, now it is doubtful if it could be considered top 10. In UK, it would be Southampton, Villa and Crewe (Crewe because they have a much lower level of player to choose from, but they improve the players they get massively) as probably the best. Though Chelsea and Man City have made great strides recently and Liverpool are right in there too. In Europe, there is obviously Dortmund as a standout example, but there is also Sporting in Portugal who produce some quality footballers on a regular basis. Bilbao are Spain's top side for producing talent, which they have to be, similar to Crewe, in that they don't have the same size of talent pool to choose from. Obviously these are opinions, and I haven't been able to see every youth team around, so I could be missing ones. For me, though, the best youth teams are not the ones which pick up trophies, but those who improve the kids they get by the biggest margin. Which is why teams like Madrid and Barca are not up there for me, they get the best kids entering their academy to start with. They don't have to trawl around the north west of England for the players Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Stoke, Everton etc don't think are good enough like Crewe have to.}