Manchester United Banter Archive August 11 2015

 

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11 Aug 2015 23:47:09
{Ed's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, The Van Gaal Philosophy Revealed (No, Really!)

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12 Aug 2015 00:49:47
And not at a better time. Thank you.

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12 Aug 2015 01:17:33
it's the reason I wrote it, I'm a little aggravated by people not understand the Van Gaal way.

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12 Aug 2015 01:24:05
that's a fascinating read and very well writte. It has helped me much better understand Van Gaal and his decisions even if I still don't agre with a lot of them

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12 Aug 2015 01:59:32
Excellent read, thank you. I wonder if the arrival of Pedro could lead to another shift tactically. We would have the right personnel to press across the entire front line.

For all of our frustration at our less than vigorous attack, I will give LVG credit for preparing the team well for all of the big opponents. Ferguson had a wonderful way of preparing the team to attack relentlessly, it was as much psychological as it was tactical. I am sure he prepared the defensive side well for when our risk taking left us exposed.

Where we have lacked under LVG is in offensive transition. Against Tottenham in the first half Carrick had a couple of interceptions and Schneiderlin also had one, where it looked a good moment to break quickly. But none of Rooney, Depay, Young, or Mata broke in behind the defense. And yet our goal came off of that kind of situation exactly. Mata was gifted with a bad pass, hit Depay, then Young on the run across to the right wing.

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12 Aug 2015 02:23:12
Andrew what you also need to understand is that this is a system of football that has bought LVG success for nearly 20 years as a manager.

If it were me, I wouldn't change either, evolve in the same way but certainly not change.

That said, I can see what you would and wouldn't agree with.

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12 Aug 2015 04:07:02
It was a good read Moon. Good post.

But for me the manager is living in the past and being nostalgic of his Ajax days. That Ajax team glittered with superstars and for me LVG is trying to recreate a winning system that is now outdated and won't work in the PL.

Just me two cents of course!

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12 Aug 2015 07:10:31
Good read. It raises a few questions:

1. Have modern defences caught up with his philosophy?
2. Do we have enough quality in our squad to execute it successfully?
3. Which players raised in the SAF era can be trained to adapt their play and raise their game to a level high enough to create success.

Last year, without Carrick, the answers to 1 & 2 were yes and no, and with him no and yes. The purchases we have made thus far have been with a view to ensuring we have an alternative to Carrick who is getting older and has become prone to injury, providing a bit of a creative spark up front, and improving the right back position. Will it be enough?

Clearly some players have adapted well - Young and Smalling. Blind, much criticized last year for his sideways passing, is a natural. Jones and Evans seem to be more like headless chickens. Hopefully Rojo can step up to the plate.

If the players aren't up to executing the "philosophy"because they simply aren't good enough, or cannot maintain tactical discipline, it will make for a fairly boring season with plenty possession and no product. There are those of us who did not see the defence as the major problem last year, so much as an attack that generated fewer goals than under Moyes. Yes, we made it into Europe, but had we scored the same number of points the previous year it would not have ben enough.

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12 Aug 2015 10:13:36
good write up that @Jose Moonrinho.

the only worrying thing for me is, if a team is unwilling to be pulled out of shape and remain disciplined no attempts at goal will be made as the risk would not be worth taking, isn't that what's happening with us having no attempts at goal

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12 Aug 2015 10:56:36
ajax where amazing a breath of fresh air but that was 20 years ago.
lvg never really managed that again which is maybe why he has only 1 CL from 20 years ago.
in the 90s he looked a top manager at the top of his game but since then for me the game has caught him up imo.
his second spell at barcelona was awful , but maybe you should never go back .
but i wasn't a fan of either his holland teams , or his munich team which i thought was poor to watch.
so far i'm not a fan of his man united team .

should add that's a great article from moon . but other managers are are also trying to implement there style and on paper that sometimes looks great.
i read a good article on mark huges at stoke last season and he sounded fantastic.
i should point out i think moons was better really was a good read

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12 Aug 2015 12:16:27
Zidaniel,

Firstly, Van Gaal does not like players interchanging across positions that’s the first thing I need to point out, his system is so rigid and structured that everyone has to know their duties and training 4 players to learn 4 roles each is a lot in his opinion.

So I would therefore expect Pedro to replace Young in situations requiring an inside zone/half zone player on the left handside.

I think that this quote from De Boer really shows how Van Gaal prepares his team and it’s a marvellous insight backed up further by Van Der Lem.

He is so well prepared that you would be doing drills in training and you would know what the opposition were going to do before they did. You knew exactly what you were up against. He would say sometimes to Marc Overmars, "The guy you are playing against drifts across to be close to the central defender. Stay where you are and you will get in behind him," - and he'd be right". – De Boer

We have lacked in that offensive transition, but what we’re lacking is that when rooney drops deeper nobody is pushing into his space, Depay will certainly learn this and become used to it given more time – Our 1-up-1-down system isn’t working currently. Our lateral passing against a team that will sit with 6/7 players deep is very hard to create openings again, Spurs dropped Dembele, Bentaleb & Dier almost into the back 4 line at times and it became increasingly difficult to play against – Spurs were well drilled and we only pulled their shape when Davies slipped inside to cover Mata and Darmian went outside.

Breaking football is something you will never see from this Manchester United side.

MAZE,

I would disagree but it’s an understandable statement, I think he’s certainly living off that success but isn’t Wenger living off the invincible still? Or Pep off that incredible Barcelona side? Van Gaal has earned the right to live off it because he created something that will never be replicated in world football.

His tactics have certainly evolved since then though, the cautious approach with a deeper line, patient lateral passes and the reliant on a 1-up-1-down system is very distant from what started off as 1-touch football at Ajax.

I simply believe he’s loosened his standards on what is considered an intelligent player to him and as such the system suffers at times.

Shawthing,

I think it’s impossible to catch up with his philosophy, because part of his belief is to really analyse what over teams do and pick them apart. Although it looks like it’s never evolving or moving, the formational and player roles changes game by game, for example, a quote I’ve already used today this is how Van Gaal looks at the opposition;

He would say sometimes to Marc Overmars, "The guy you are playing against drifts across to be close to the central defender. Stay where you are and you will get in behind him," - and he'd be right".

Not always right with every call, but you can see how a team wouldn’t catch up to something that they do not know.

Do we have enough quality? Quite frankly no.

If I look at our current squad, I can count few players with intelligence; Smalling, Blind, Darmian (it appears), Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Mata, Valencia & Rooney.

10 players out of 25, it a poor representation from a team which bases it’s being under Van Gaal on intelligence.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with the Sir Alex era, I think it’s all to do with British trained players having the intelligence of a door. In this league you need to be athletic & Smart, I couldn’t name you many players in England like that.

I disagree with the Carrick statement, if he is the pin that holds our team together then something is certainly wrong. In my opinion you can never judge a Van Gaal team on the first season because the players are learning and making mistakes. The reason Carrick done so well is because his role didn’t really change much from what he was used to, he is a natural fit for United & Van Gaal.

His players were learning and that’s it as far as I’m concerned really.

The right back position has had a huge upgrade, in the creative third we’ve added a player who can be Robben playing for Holland, Muller for Bayern, etc. We’ve got the player who can play in the 1-up-1-down system, if Depay executes his role well and learns fast then we could stumble upon a system which Liverpool used heavily with Suarez & Sturridge in ‘that’ season.

I agree with your statement on who stood up, I think it’s perhaps harsh to comment on Evans because his only real chances were in the back 3, and he simply didn’t understand his role, I think he’s smart enough to understand the back 4 easily enough and I can actually see Evans showing some good performances this year if given the chance.

Jones is still very young in his game due to his injuries, he’s 3 years behind where he should be because of them, so I’m not surprised from what we’re seeing. That said he’s only a United player at the moment because he’s very versatile.

Rojo, well I don’t know why he was signed, I’m assuming it’s because he can use both feet and play in the LB role, and the fact that we couldn’t get a good left footed central defender.

I do like him though; I just don’t think he’s suited. We will see, I couldn’t tell you how intelligent he is.

As I’ve mentioned, I think the issue with scoring if we look at the article;

We Start the moves well from the keeper, our spread for ball circulation and movement is also very good, we’re forming good passing lanes and angles in the chance creation phase, what we’re lacking is the final bit of that attack and chance creation which is the 1-up-1-down system, with Depay and Pedro I think we’ll be absolutely fine this year, although they will need time to learn the system.

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12 Aug 2015 12:35:59
Strebor83 - There is no such team that will remain disciplined, we may only get 3 or 4 chances per game instead but what seperated the likes of Barcelona, Ajax & Holland is that they took those chances. we appear to be unable to finish.

Jred - I am inclined to agree with you to an extent.

Although I don't think the game has caught up with him, I think after AZ Alkmaar he became far more cautious.

If we're talking Champions League success, Ferguson has 2, LVG would have had two if he didn't come up against a very good Mourinho Inter side.

I wouldn't say his second spell was awful, I would say it lacked control, or that control wasn't Van Gaal's, too many big egos thinking they knew best, it was always going to implode on him.

He covers it tremendously in his book.

From an entertainment point of view I was not a fan of Holland or this CURRENT united team.

from a tactical stand point I think it's incredible, just the little things you see players do and the odd 2 yard movement.

I really enjoyed his Bayern team and his AZ team, which I only ever saw in a live game once but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

A poor team to watch isn't as such a poor tactical team. Mourinho teams sometimes bore me to tears but they're formidable for example.

Thank you for your kind words though, and on paper it does always look good, I think you'll be in for a surprise with United this year.

If Depay can really come to grips with the 1-up-1-down system then it will be goals galore in my opinion.

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12 Aug 2015 13:16:31
Enjoyed the read JM thankyou.
One major point to me is (and this ain't WR bashing) that Rooney epitomises ill discipline on the pitch. He constantly contradicts the following
"Firstly, Van Gaal does not like players interchanging across positions that’s the first thing I need to point out, his system is so rigid and structured that everyone has to know their duties and training 4 players to learn 4 roles each is a lot in his opinion."
When he does , he tends to cause a situation where the player supposedly in that position gets boxed in for want of a better phrase and therefore becomes not only inactive but temporarily redundant. Just my opinion and as stated I ain't slating WR as he is /has been a good servant to the club. It tends to have an effect of accumulative error where if a player is crowded out he shifts if possible, and makes the same situation arise but in another area. If nothing else I hope this is understandable . lol

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12 Aug 2015 13:20:46
jose
i would agree with the 1 up 1 down which drives me mad when people go on and on about rooney dropping off.
its also why matas goal record was very good last year.
but i really don't think it worked at munich.
got to say at times i thought chelsea where great to watch last year, same as at madrid who have also got a bad name.

on lvg time will tell but i think the game has moved on .

one last thing ,that ajax where some team , tactics will get u so far but they had 11 very very good players .
nearly all of them moved on and had top top careers through out europe.
infact most went on to be the best player in there new team

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12 Aug 2015 14:14:18
cooky
have a read what 1 up 1 down means.

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12 Aug 2015 15:18:55
jred -I know what 1 up 1 down means -my point is that wr drops off fine but he is erratic at times and goes and crowds others out not allowing a switch,. My opinion, don't be so patronising

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11 Aug 2015 22:29:52
Barca given trophy and Pedro just stood there while everyone else celebrated around him. Massive sign he really has handed in a transfer request.

Ed get your finger out!!!

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11 Aug 2015 21:45:17
The backlash if Pedro signs for City.
Ed better have this signing wrapped up or someone better.

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11 Aug 2015 21:37:22
Well, Pedro is in Barca shirt, but we managed to rest him for Friday's match at Villa :)

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11 Aug 2015 20:58:27
So Pedro, I know hardly anything about him as only really watch epl.is he any good ? Seen comments he's quality and comments that he's just like nani. Which one is it ?

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11 Aug 2015 22:41:34
He scores winners

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11 Aug 2015 22:43:20
Nah he's nothing like nani mate.

I've watched him for years and up until Barcelona signed suarez he was first choice and a key player there. An excellent player and for the price you simply can't pass on it as could turn out to be a bargain signing.

Do you not remember him scoring the opener against us in 2011 champions league final?

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12 Aug 2015 00:17:19
I love the lad, but think of a consistent Valencia, with the ability to use both feet and put the ball in the net.

work rate and size are very similar.

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12 Aug 2015 00:59:55
Jose, he is the furthest thing from Valencia. He's a very intelligent player, think of a shorter, faster version of Müller.

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12 Aug 2015 01:43:12
Valencia is an incredibly intelligent footballer.

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12 Aug 2015 04:08:15
Short memories on here Moon. Valencia was awesome when we got him.

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12 Aug 2015 05:36:26
Valencia is never an intelligent footballer

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12 Aug 2015 09:34:31
If he was intelligent then why does he just hit crosses as hard as he can, why is he always out of position defensively, why is his left foot only for standing, why is he always useless coming inside? Valencia is one of the dumbest players I have ever seen.

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12 Aug 2015 10:57:48
valencia was a good player until he broke his leg

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11 Aug 2015 17:57:58
ed
you probably have a pain in your swiss regarding pedro after barcelina saying his future will be revolved soon any idea on where it will be resolved are will it be possible 7that tonight will be his last game for barca
thanking u in advance

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{Ed007's Note - I didn't even know Barcelona were playing tonight.}

11 Aug 2015 20:20:50
Get with the program Ed :)

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{Ed007's Note - Unless Barca are playing Celtic, Utd or Real Madrid I've got no interest in watching them.}

11 Aug 2015 21:15:39
Agree with ya bond , but glad I watched as its a cracking game .

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11 Aug 2015 19:56:45
Watching the super cup and how nice it must be to have people in your team who can score from a free kick rather than hitting the wall.

Kind of like how it must be nice to have someone who can cross a ball. What we would not give for another Dennis Irwin or David Beckham.

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11 Aug 2015 20:51:49
Well Barca are the poor mans Arsenal

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11 Aug 2015 21:26:50
Pardon? Rooney and Mata are both brilliant from the dead ball, especially mata

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11 Aug 2015 22:53:12
Some of the free kicks Depay scored last season doesn't matter what league they were quality!

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12 Aug 2015 05:26:55
Basti mata depay Rooney. Just 4 who can take them.

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11 Aug 2015 19:54:54
"Pedro asked us for the transfer,” Fernandez confirmed, before adding: “We are not going to accept less than €30 million [his buyout clause] for him, it’s not negotiable.”

decent player pedro imo

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11 Aug 2015 20:22:27
Yeah I think he'd be a class signing at a reasonable price

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11 Aug 2015 20:22:31
I'd welcome him

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11 Aug 2015 19:33:34
Ready for everyones favourite time of the day? A bit of LVG bashing.

I'm not convinced by him, or his style of football, or his transfers, or his match day decisions. But I also think that he may well deliver trophies by the end of his three year contract. That's what he was hired to do, and might well do. Perhaps not in a fashion that's to everyone's taste.

A question directed at those who really don't like him: How bad do you think it will get? Will he ruin our club? Will he leave us in such a dire situation that it takes years to fix and become competitive again? What do you predict will be the legacy at the end of next year, worst case, and realistic expectation? I'm interested to hear what you think the damage could be.

It's open season on LVG right now. Go to town. And hopefully no one will knock you for it, because after all, I did ask.

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11 Aug 2015 20:15:12
worse case is that lvg spends a load of cash on players that don't make the grade and we win nothing .
the glazers then sell the club in 2017 like the ed has mentioned to an USA investment company that wil buy the club the same way the glazers did .

leaving us with an average team who haven't won anything in 4 years new manager and no cash to spend

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11 Aug 2015 20:29:30
Nizza

I think LvG is generally doing the right things, letting go those who needed to go, adding in areas like midfield where it has been needed for years. He is putting in a plan, a structure to the club. For all the criticism he has given young players chances.

It will be interesting to see the results of what his changes to the youth structure mean to bringing youth through the system in 5 to 7 years. Little seems to published about what he is doing there.

At the present we are short in several areas, areas that if addressed could easily change our play, there are still three weeks to address these areas.

People say he is abrasive, well what was SAF? He put many noses out of joint, managers, players, fans , the press but he delivered, although might have done more in Europe. It could be said the mess lvg inherited needed some noses put out of joint in order to put it right

So I don't think he will ruin our club, I think I said when appointed he was more like a turnaround director brought in to steady the ship give us direction in a short space of time, basically the short sharp shock that was needed. He is giving the building blocks for the next manager in my opinion, the one that can come in and polish the marbles rather than have to crack the mould.
We are more likely to be competitive because of what he is doing than in spite of it, and we may appreciate what he has done more in a year or two. I don't expect the next manager to pick up the mess LvG did that is for sure.
This season he needs to buy the right players for this campaign and worry about future seasons if he is retained next summer.

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11 Aug 2015 20:29:40
Did I get last Saturday's result wrong , did we actually lose
6 - 0 to Spurs ? , because that's what it seems like on here ever since

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11 Aug 2015 20:50:18
That's a bit harsh Nizza. Other than the odd exception, nobody hates LVG. There are just some general concerns about his obstinacy around his philosophy. He really is a top bloke but his history suggests he struggles to engage and lacks emotional intelligence. Allegedly he is abrasive and as we have seen from his press conferences he can be a little indiscreet. He may surprise us all and everything will be fine. Or he won't and he will be gone. We have a great squad now, it won't get really bad.

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11 Aug 2015 20:52:17
I don't think he will do any real damage apart from not achieve a major trophy. I think the positives so far are he has off loaded players that are Surplus to requirements and in doing so reduced the wages. I mean The likes of Nani and Anderson. I think it's hard for us fans to see what his philosophy is when he starts the season playing players out of their position. We saw plenty of it last season with Rooney playing CM instead of playing Hererra and now he's at it with Memphis, I can't see what he is trying to achieve in doing so probably 99% of comments and tweets regarding this think he's got it wrong with Mata and Memphis in the wrong position. It's also alarming that we have failed to either recruit or feel the need to recruit a quality CB already, don't think I've read a comment or article where anyone thinks we are strong enough back there. I fully appreciate Ed may be working on something before the end of the window but again why have we allowed it to go on this long. until the window is over we won't know who we may have so that will have to wait a couple of weeks. A lot of people have been accused of moaning too early but the worrying thing is even with the new players brought in we the game against Spurs was the same awful spectacle that we are now accustomed with over the last two seasons. can't remember the last time I got excited when a player had the ball thinking some magic was going to happen. all those hopes were pinned on ADM and that never came to fruition. So I don't think LVG will do any long term damage because the club are too big to become the modern day version of Liverpool however I think whenever LVG goes not a lot of people will miss him.

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11 Aug 2015 21:06:19
Well put red man. And I do tend to agree. I'm usually one for judging in hindsight given the results and the methods, and I do believe he will do well, at the moment.

What I wrote in the original post is not the entirety of my opinion on lvg, it was just to give this thread a particular flavour.

I'm still interested to see what the pessimists expect to be the leftovers from his reign. Any more for any more?

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11 Aug 2015 22:16:22
Red Man, I'd agree in general. SAF was abrasive when needed with the players.

However, it was usually behind closed doors. LVG seems to go out of his way to slag players off, especially in public. That's fine, but you need a filter. You need to be able to put an arm round them as well.

From what I've seen of him over the years, LVG doesn't have that filter, whereas, along with Cloughie, SAF was probably the best man manager of them all.

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11 Aug 2015 22:27:42
Don't always agree with you Red Man but you are bang on with that reply.

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11 Aug 2015 23:05:38
Think about the players he's got rid of Cleverley, Welbeck, Nani RvP likely Evans and Chicharito. Then there's all the players that have come in since too, not to say that he orchestrated every signing but the quality of the squad has been dramatically improved if he can't managed to get them to play well together someone else will.

He's giving youth a real chance in Blackett, McNair, pereira, Wilson and lingard. We're struggling to create at the moment that's all and it's down to a combination of having Rooney up front and mata and Young on the wings. Play Depay on the left and Pedro (if signed) on the right and that'll change. Midfield has been sorted. Defence will likely be sorted, Rojo replacing Blind when fit will help.

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11 Aug 2015 23:21:00
Red man,

Absolutely spot on, one of the best posts on here for ages in my opinion.

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11 Aug 2015 19:19:25
pedro has asked to leave barcelona according to BT sport

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11 Aug 2015 19:10:23
Hi Guys

Pedro on the bench tonight.I thought he would start with no Neymar so here's hoping this is his goodbye.Pedro a Red by Thursday.

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11 Aug 2015 19:34:40
Supposedly he's asked to leave I wldnt get our hopes up tho it might be because city are after him because if it was us why did he no ask to leave last week so we could have had him in our champions league squad hope I'm wrong as I would love to have him here .

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11 Aug 2015 19:51:34
So much for Barca wanting to keep him.
If he can't get a chance without Neymar then he has to leave . I'd love him at United .

I think I might be one of the only united fans excited by this season

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11 Aug 2015 20:02:44
Surely if they wanted him to stay I would have thought they would have started him tried to show him he's still a part is the side especially with Neymar out. Think this means Pedro deal a formality hopefully. Just a CB and goal scorer needed

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11 Aug 2015 20:20:04
Maybe Barca won't play him as he is not focused. Maybe they have watched him in training and he is not the same player as last year.

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11 Aug 2015 18:40:24
Having finally caught up with MOTD I'm amazed people haven't mentioned the 2 biggest issues of the weekend.

1. Saints' away strip. Lime green with a dark blue diagonal stripe on the front. Why?

2. Steve McLaren's hair. It's not great losing your hair (I know) but that little island he has at the front is looking a little lost. Perhaps he should grow that bit really long and gel it into a large spike to resemble a unicorn. Either that or shave it a lot lot shorter

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11 Aug 2015 19:19:41
BS shorts where the biggest thing of the week

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11 Aug 2015 19:45:28
I'm particularly fond of Totenhams design with a giant seat belt for when their season crashes at the turn of the year.

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11 Aug 2015 19:45:53
Or get Wayne Rooney's number for some of that miracle grow.

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11 Aug 2015 19:47:09
It looks like Tracy island and thanks Tony for bringing up the big issues male pattern baldness and a kit that looks like vomit after an absinthe binge are the main issues from this weekend.

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11 Aug 2015 20:51:28
BS's shorts were huge, I thought there's probably a yacht without a sail right now.

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11 Aug 2015 17:58:48
Why do fans mention net spend? Do fans own the club/business? No.
The way I look at it and many should is Liverpool have spent 300 during Rodgers tenure and a lot of that money was pissed up the wall and brought no success.
As for united van gal has spent huge amounts and if there is no success this season questions will be asked.
Liverpool received 50-60 million pound from the sale of suarez and spent that poorly last season. It does not matter if it's a net spend of five million it's still 60 million spent on poor transfers and money thrown down the drain

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11 Aug 2015 18:14:19
I take the point Al but net spend is relevant in terms of balancing the books; you cannot spend money you don't have.

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11 Aug 2015 18:14:37
Exactly right. We should be using the di Maria money aswell as all the money we was going to spend this summer. We needed positions sorting out before he left so we should be replacing him aswell as the others.

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11 Aug 2015 18:15:28
As a supporter of Utd and football in general, bet spend is irrelevant as it's not our money being spent, don't know why fans from different clubs go on about it.

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11 Aug 2015 18:30:33
Net spend is very important for lots of reasons. As fans it tells us what quality we have lost and what quality we have gained. It also tells us how competent the club is at doing business, how much money we should have to invest in players.

Separately:

The sad thing is that had Chelsea carried out the same buying and selling of players as us over the past 2 years I have no doubt their net spend would be 30% lower than ours. We overpay in transfers and wages, then sell for less than the player would be worth typically due to that mistake.

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11 Aug 2015 18:39:14
Ajh
As I say again. Balancing books? Are you balancing them.?you sound more interested in accounts than the football.
Liverpool according to Edd002 have spent future iincome and we are still paying off a large loan. So yes clubs have spent money they haven't had in the pot. Owners should worry about net spend. All Fans should worry about has 30 million been spent on the right player? Did he warrant that, could it have been spent on a better player?
Net spent does not buy the right players and it is an excuse for fans when the players have been piss poor buys

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11 Aug 2015 18:45:05
Beast are you serious?
Chelsea have bought the right players to bring success. They add few players now a window because they buy correctly. Fabregas, Costa, matic.?
In contrast liverpool have bought more similar players in the same positions having yet to buy the correct players.

Beast you've completely missed the point. Maybe if united win nothing this season but we're to have gained in net spend you would see the point. I.e united made 10 million after buys and sales but win nothing would you bring up netspend?

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11 Aug 2015 19:00:58
Beast , the reason we have over spent on transfers and paid big wages is because the fans , of which you serve as the perfect example , demand instant success. Therefore we find ourselves trying to satisfy those demands and expectations by paying through the nose for players like DiMaria.
In the long term , the club and the fans would be better off , in my opinion , accepting a few years of proper transition and building for the future in a more structures way. Unfortunately , in order to try and deliver that instant success , we have to attract the players who can (or we hope can) deliver that by offering huge wages and paying more than other, how can I put it , less desperate clubs.
I am genuinely sad to see our beloved club having to resort to this spending. We have sold our soul to the devil in order to play catch up. We are no different now than City were 4 or 5 years ago , the only difference being where the money comes from.
You can blame the Glazers , SAF or whoever , but if we had not become so complacent and arrogant as a club we would never be in this position. We dominated for 20 odd years , and then for some reason decided that we were so good that we no longer needed to improve. If we had invested in one or two new players each year , improving on what we had and investing in young players we would still be at the top. Instead we resorted to short term fixes like RvP to ensure that SAF could retire a winner , and the rest is history.
It's not like me to rant about the negatives. But complacency has put us in this position. We should never have needed this complete rebuild , and the need to spend hundreds if million just to compete. And that is the reason why I don't like the constant bitching about this , or the last manager. LvG and Moyes were teamed with the impossible job. Rebuilding the complete mess that was left behind.

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11 Aug 2015 19:13:19
Ask Leeds fans if fans should worry about net spend or just want the clubs to spend spend spend

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11 Aug 2015 19:20:36
Al, they get a lot of the money generated from the fans so if the net spend is say over £100million each season, that money is clawed back through season ticket prices, shirt prices etc going up so I feel we have a right to consider how the club run their business.

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11 Aug 2015 19:27:27
betty
to be honest we under invested in the team while the glazers payed the debt off.
fergy continued to win so many fans though everything was ok .
often imo overrating the players and team.
but god forbid you said that on this site.
moyes took over a team that imo was finished yet fans wanted moyes out after a month.
we have bought 12 players since fergy left spent over 300 mill and people still think we don't have a good squad .

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11 Aug 2015 19:48:10
net spend became relevant when Chelsea said they're allowed to spend whatever they like and started shouting at clubs like us and city because of their net spend was superior.

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11 Aug 2015 19:58:48
Betty, I love it when you get all butch and masterful. Agree entirely.

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11 Aug 2015 20:18:13
Noucamp , behave. I'm actually blushing xx

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11 Aug 2015 20:22:50
Betty
Brilliant mate.

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11 Aug 2015 20:30:36
Jred , you are right mate we did under invest. But there was money to spend , and SAF spent it very badly in his later years. Wasting money on completely unnecessary gambles and his obsession with wide players , Bebe , Toxic , Obertan etc etc. And all that time we were crying out for midfielder. Can't remember exact time scales off topmof my head , but I think we went something like 5 or 6 years without buying a midfielder after Hargreaves. And all that time we were terribly weak in that position.
It's almost criminal!when you look back in it. And now some other poor sod has got to try to put it right , and all the whole trying to live up to SAF. I honestly think it's a job that no-one will live up to until we have had a few baron years , and expectations are lowered.

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11 Aug 2015 20:52:58
Mmm, butch and masterful, exactly how I picture myself with Kylie, I think we have a great squad now; youth mixed with experience. I just hope the current management can get the best out of them.

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11 Aug 2015 22:19:24
Jamie, the difference being, Leeds are a provincial club with no worldwide appeal to back up their spending.

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11 Aug 2015 23:25:03
Interesting how loads of Liverpool fans told me last year how we had spent so much on net spend over the last 3 years and only finished 4th, but now our net spend is a lot lower it means nothing.

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12 Aug 2015 00:40:33
I think the point Al is trying to make is that of don't shout about net expenditure to justify spunking X amount on certain players.

I agree with Betty that we have completely sold our soul to the bank of satan over the past two years but I think its worth comparing who or what type of players we have signed as opposed to City for example.

When City started snapping up players they got thier hands on WC winners to compete like Tevez, Kompany, Nasri, Silva, Aguero etc some of who are still at the forefront of their team at the moment. Yes they made some blunders but when they have spent £30m plus it has been on the right player (Aguero, Silva etc) whereas we have resorted to the panic button and snapping up what was available to us at astronomical prices (Di Maria, Mata, Falcao's £20m loan).

Net spend is important but it's how and what assets you aquire that is the most relevant to us as fans.

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11 Aug 2015 16:16:32
Ok I'm going to have to be the one to say it to all you negative nancy's on here.

We had 25 years of Fergie's style of football but guess what there are other styles of football too and none of them are wrong.

LvG plays a different style of football and just like Fergies methods its proven to work. Have some faith and stop jumping on every opportunity to hate. Support the team and we will be back winning trophies before you know it.

Believable9 Unbelievable1

11 Aug 2015 16:56:42
Well said buddy. I couldn't agree more.

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11 Aug 2015 17:20:15
Great, if LVG leaves we could ask Big Sam to take over or perhaps approach West Brom for permission to speak to Pulis.

It doesn't make me negative to say I found watching us last year on the whole, well boring really. The 1st game didn't suggest any real change. I realise it's about winning trophies but if it means boring people to death then I'm not interested. We have a history based on swashbuckling attacking play (apart from Sexton), for me it isn't simply about winning.

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11 Aug 2015 17:52:10
AJH, did you prefer last season or the season before?

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11 Aug 2015 17:54:23
Well said. You'd think we'd got beat on the opening day from all the negativity on here. 5 players made their debut, and still possibly more signings to come. Its important to pick up points while the team gels, it's not going to happen overnight. Time to get behind the team and the manager.

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11 Aug 2015 18:16:57
I think wee played poorly for a number of years. Not sure how old some posters are on here but get the DVDs of 92/3, 93/4, 99/02 and see how team used to play. Then there were the Ronaldo years. For several years now I really haven't enjoyed watching us apart from an occasional game when we shook off the stupor. Even last year in our good run, it was all incredibly controlled and lacking passion. Just my view.

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11 Aug 2015 18:20:23
I should add tat whist there are happy clappers and negative nellies I don't think am either. I support the team, am generally optimistic and phlegmatic, but we have been pants for a long time. After the money we have spent I am expecting a lot more.

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11 Aug 2015 19:30:47
im with AJH on this one.
i also think that after the money we have spent over the last couple of years its fine to expect more.

in fact if any team or sportsman wants to be the best they need to set the bar high.

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11 Aug 2015 20:03:22
I guess this was aimed at me Al, I just thought I'd talk about the net spend because I think it's interesting to see which clubs have done the best business in the window, in terms of bringing in quality and getting rid of what they don't need. In all honesty I think you saw your clubs name at the top of the list and overreacted a bit, if you personally don't care about net spend then why bother posting a thread about it on another teams page?

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11 Aug 2015 16:16:16
Thought I'd make a post about premier league clubs net spend this season as its quite interesting and its a break from all the posts about us needing a cb, winger and forward which are repetitive to say the least.
These are pretty much spot on as far as I can tell, let me know if you want a breakdown for any particular club.
(I understand that transfer fees aren't all paid in one lump sum but this still gives a good summary of where everyone stands)

Here's a list:
Liverpool £37.3m
Newcastle £34.7m
Manchester city £23.35m
West brom £21.5m
Manchester united £20.85m
West ham £20.5m
Crystal palace £20.5m
Leicester £19.2m
Bournemouth £18.5m
Watford £11.5m
Norwich £10m
Swansea £8.6m
Arsenal £8.2m
Sunderland £5.7m
Everton £4.3m
Aston villa -£1.7m
Stoke -£8.75m
Chelsea -£14.5m
Spurs -£15m
Southampton -£17.8m

So for me there's some surprises here, and it's clear to see a lot of mid table clubs have very similar net spends to some of the top clubs, and I think whoever wins the league this season will have the lowest points total we've seen for a long time as the league looks like it could be more competitive than ever.

Southampton look to have great business as usual, and spurs have cleared a lot of deadwood.

Newcastle are a big suprise for me, it's no secret they have money, they're a big club, but whoever has persuaded Mike Ashley to dip into his pockets deserves a medal, they could do well this year.

I think the fight for the last couple of European spots could be fantastic this year, for me any of Saints, Spurs, Liverpool, West Ham, Newcastle, Stoke, Swansea could make it, or even West Brom and Palace being outside bets to make the top 7.

Liverpool have the biggest net spend despite selling Sterling, which got them around £32.5m + £6.5m add ons if city win the champions league (so they won't be seeing any of that!) and around £9m going to QPR. so if Rodgers does the unthinkable and gets them playing the right way they could threaten.

Looking at the top 4's spending it looks like all clubs could still make a big money move, and I expect arsenal to get Benzema, and no doubt city will splash again (rumours of De Bruyne). I think Chelsea will sign Baba Rahman (left back) and save funds for a big move next year, perhaps pogba?

I think one of these 3 teams will win the league this season but it's too early to predict who.

For us, I think Pedro will arrive soon, but after that who knows, I'm just going to sit back and wait and try to enjoy it!
Hope some of you found this interesting, let us know if you have anything to add, cheers.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

11 Aug 2015 17:01:12
Unfortunately I have to admit that Liverpool do look stronger this year and they could really challenge us in the top 4 if they get a good start.

I hope we buy atleast 2 more players, one being Pedro and another as a defender. And if possible a striker to come in would top it off!

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11 Aug 2015 16:35:24
united , chelsea and city will still spend a lot of cash before the end of the window .
i think arsenal may well spend a lot on a striker as well.

but the epl does look like its going to be tight this year

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11 Aug 2015 17:20:26
Just to add Stoke have just signed Shaqiri for £12m, potentially the best business out of all the clubs with a net spend of just a few millions

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11 Aug 2015 17:49:25
rondon will do well at wda

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11 Aug 2015 17:51:03
If Shaqiri, Bojan and Affellay hit the ground running, Stoke could be in for a very good season, and will be a very hard fixture, as Liverpool found out, relying on a Butland blunder.

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11 Aug 2015 19:07:25
I tipped Stoke as an outside bet for a European place. Solidified their Premiership status, steady progress since, some shrewd buys and a move to a more aesthetically pleasing type of football. Well run club, with a lot to thank Tony Pulis for.

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11 Aug 2015 16:12:41
Why would Chelsea even bother appealing that red card, quite rightly was unsuccessful. I presume that they watch tv replays after the game to see if they should. Gomis was onside, fouled I'm the area (on the line is in the area) and denied the opportunity to strike at an empty goal, open and shut case for me.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

11 Aug 2015 16:39:52
Dermot Gallagher came out and said the decision was spot on, and then they decided to appeal, they were never getting off, he should have been given an extra game for a frivolous appeal in my opinion.

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11 Aug 2015 17:49:44
Isn't that what they used to do GDS?

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11 Aug 2015 18:00:01
Because the appeal takes the heat of a poor result. Mourinho

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11 Aug 2015 18:00:31
If de gea had made that challenge and got sent off I'd have been a tad upset.

IMO gomis has taken a heavy touch going away from goal and terry and Cahill were back covering.

If the rules say the line means pen then fair enough, but I still think it should have been a booking.

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11 Aug 2015 21:08:17
Big Al

That is a tactic SAF used to use , deflection, make an outrageous comment about the referee and that would be the focus. I may be wrong but I am not sure everything is 100% right at Chelsea, perhaps the sale of Cech to Arsenal was not exactly what Jose wanted and perhaps there are frictions.

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11 Aug 2015 15:41:03
Lavezzi now!

What is it with the press fascination between Manchester United and Argentinian players?
Gaitan, Biglia, Otamendi, I'm sure I've missed one. Can any of the eds share some light on whether we are actually interested in any of them or is it just Chinese whispers?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

11 Aug 2015 17:03:15
We already have plenty of Spanish speaking players in Mata, Herrera, De Gea, Valdes, Rojo, Romero and previously Di Maria. Meaning the press put 2+2 together and thought we were buying players who could likely link well with these type of players.

I say ignore it all, the media know little to nothing.

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11 Aug 2015 16:30:50
All these great Argentinians and we'll probably end up with Messi!

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11 Aug 2015 14:26:20
I have read a few comments about City today; and while it is true they played well last night it is worth remembering they won their first game of last season 5.1. Also, WBA were crap. They were awful. They sat back and allowed city to dictate the tempo.

City will no doubt be there or there abouts come the end of the season, but they still haven't sorted their defensive issues out.

As far as Kevin De Bruyne is concerned, he is way off being the finished article. I mean the guy couldn't make it in the PL a few years ago so I think the jury is still out on him being an instant hit if he signs for City.

City should be better judged when they play someone who will go out and try to beat them. WBA just wanted to park the bus.

Just my opinion.

Believable3 Unbelievable2

11 Aug 2015 15:20:21
Amen to that Sam most logical post of the day

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11 Aug 2015 15:44:03
Thanks mate.

I think City will be the team to beat this season because of the array of attacking talent at their disposal; but I think they will be found out a bit against top teams who won't show them the sort of respect that WBA showed them yesterday.

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11 Aug 2015 16:00:47
Matic couldn't cut it at the EPL before but he certainly does now.

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mbd              

11 Aug 2015 16:58:57
For the money being quoted, he will be expected to cut it, and cut it quickly.

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11 Aug 2015 17:53:18
On a side note, what a player David Silva is. One of my favourite players in the league, and IMO the best. He put on a show last night, and a bloody good one at that.

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11 Aug 2015 18:10:49
I always feel that silva as damn good as he is quietens off towards the end of the season is less of an influence for them.

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11 Aug 2015 14:13:29
if LVG comments about his striker only having a few touches a game (mainly scoring the goal) then why not use Hernández. granted his touch is woeful but his natural scoring ability is surely what LVG was asking for ?

Believable1 Unbelievable1

11 Aug 2015 14:48:54
Completely agree strebor.

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11 Aug 2015 14:53:31
Hernandez has lost some of his explosive pace over the years and has been found out by defenders. Now he's offside more often than not, and his last season in Madrid raised questions about his value as an impact sub.

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11 Aug 2015 15:04:02
Is his finishing that good? His poaching was ok, but he scuffed a hell of a lot and if we discount his first season what exactly has he done in recent years?

It's like Cisse at Newcastle being classed as a great finisher, again he isn't in my view.

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11 Aug 2015 15:10:43
but his pace wouldn't matter, LVG doesn't want a striker to take people on, he wants a poacher

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11 Aug 2015 15:30:49
i thought his finishing was decent tbh

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11 Aug 2015 15:35:53
Hernandez relies on his pace to make runs behind the defence (like Owen or Torres). Once the pace starts to go those runs are made sooner and offsides become more regular. He doesn't have the strength to be a Costa, the skill to be a Suarez, or the finishing to be a Lewandowski. He just doesn't have enough to his game to be anything more than a passenger 90% of the time.

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11 Aug 2015 15:51:31
Sherringham wasn't quick or skillful but he done alright. a fox in the box requires a quick brain and a good finish

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11 Aug 2015 16:10:03
I try to think back to great signs he has shown over his more recent games and I can't think of any. All I remember is him being caught offside all the time. I don't think he has the quick brain.

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11 Aug 2015 19:46:13
Sheringham had a very good footballing brain and is a totally different kind of player to hernandez

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11 Aug 2015 14:10:34
So with the general consensus being that LVG will be off in 2-3 years if not before. Who would be everyones choice for replacing him?
I would opt for Simeone, only thing is that he can't speak English. I do however think that Mourinho would be in the frame. We saw how much he "flirted" with us when Fergie left.

Believable0 Unbelievable4

11 Aug 2015 14:37:05
My money would be on klopp or pep

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11 Aug 2015 14:37:20
i cannot help but think it's going top be pep

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11 Aug 2015 14:40:35
Will those currently crying about Vsn Gaal's football not just be doing likewise about Simeone and Mourinho's brand of football ?

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11 Aug 2015 14:49:08
Klopp or Pep

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11 Aug 2015 14:49:12
Giggs.

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11 Aug 2015 14:50:05
You never know sam, the manager might stay beyond his current three years if everything goes well.

Anyway, our Giggs is set to take over from LVG IMO.

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11 Aug 2015 15:00:03
LVG's contract is up in 2017 and he has stated that he will leave the club at this point.

Mourinho has just renewed his contract until 2019. It would cost a fortune to get him. I don't think United would want him though.

Pep's contract is up next summer, might he take another sabbatical after Bayern and wait for United for a year?

Pelegrini's contract has just been extended by a year until 2017, this could have been done for stability reasons. City will push hard for Pep next year if becomes available.

If Pelegrini stays for the extra year and LVG leaves, 2017 will be an interesting year in Manchester.

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11 Aug 2015 15:00:27
Don't want giggsy if van gaal grooming him to play the same mediocre football as he's got us playing klopp all day long for me plays football the way it should be played attack attack attack

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11 Aug 2015 15:03:09
Ancelotti would be a great choice.

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11 Aug 2015 15:05:22
Exactly people want van gaal out but want pep, Jose or klopp. Two of those learned under van gaal. Two of them play boring park the bus counter attacking and one plays possession based taken to the extreme.

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11 Aug 2015 15:10:55
Spot on Bilko.

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11 Aug 2015 15:24:32
To let Giggs take over from lvg would be a crazy risk, he's been an assistant for a few years he's hardly ready to take over one of the biggest clubs in the world. Think he should stay as assistant to the next manager too and gain more experience and earn his coaching qualifications

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11 Aug 2015 15:45:39
@mort, yeah cause our football is just like watching byern and barca

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11 Aug 2015 15:46:46
He wouldn't be my first choice either.

Thinking about it, the next manager appointed might be dictated by whose in charge of the club if the Glaziers decide to sell up in 2017.

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11 Aug 2015 15:48:50
If he stays as assistant to the next manager he will still have no actual experience as a manager apart from four games after Moyes left . He needs to go and manage someone after this season and get out of his Old Trafford comfort zone

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11 Aug 2015 16:38:02
Why does Giggs have to go somewhere else? I'm not being cheeky, I'm genuinely interested. I've never really seen the point of going down the leagues to prove yourself, when you're learning just as much, if not more, as an assistant at a big club. It's not like he has to earn prospective players' respect.

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11 Aug 2015 18:23:25
Steviek

I think Giggs has to go and show he can do it somewhere else. We took a massive risk after SAF with an experienced PL manager yet would consider putting Giggs in charge without ever being a manager. There is a difference in focus, responsibility and accountability between being No2 and being No1 and unless we change the role to first team coach and even if we give a 1 year rolling contract or appoint year by year then I think Giggs would be a high risk choice. I don't think LvG recommending him will make a difference either, after all who did SAF recommend? Giggs therefore wouldn't be for me.

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11 Aug 2015 18:45:09
its hard because he takes a job a smaller club people will say he has never done it at the top level.

it would be a risk but barcelona have proved it can be done

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11 Aug 2015 19:14:10
I think I just like the idea of a bootroom management culture, like Liverpool in the 70s and 80s. None of their boys after Shankly managed down the leagues as far as I'm aware, but they learnt from within.

I'm not saying Giggs is the one - I'd prefer Gary Neville. But it would depend on what shape LVG leaves us in. All the Liverpool men took over successful sides. I wouldn't take the risk on Giggs or any of them, if the team was still struggling.

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11 Aug 2015 19:47:27
well all you united fans love an exciting transfer window so how about Harry Redknapp?? :)

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11 Aug 2015 19:47:53
Jred

Barcelona is different, the coach almost doesn't decide the tactics, they play the way they play as it was decided previously and the coach motivates and hones fitness. The coaches come in for short spells and it is possible that if LvG sets a "United philosophy" that a coach instead of a manager could be appointed. The thing that is different with Barca is that basically the coach , whoever it is will almost certainly finish in the top three due to the way money is divided essentially and that isn't the case in England

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11 Aug 2015 20:26:29
redman
pep and rijkaard had different tactics and both are managers not coaches.
as for top 3 lvg got the sack when barcelona where down the bottom of the league so there mot always in the top 3.

i do agree if the club, like barcelona and liverpool in the past have a strong identity it would be better for some like giggs .
that said i would rather giggs followed the fergy way than the lvg way to be honest .

before you say anything i know fergy wasnt perfect but i think he understood the traditions of the club

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11 Aug 2015 21:11:06
Jred

Wild McGuiness is all I need to say, we didn't learn from the Busby transition in doing the SAF one but let's at least learn from the lesson of Wilf. No to Giggs.

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11 Aug 2015 22:49:50
redmam
come on pal how long ago was was that .

football and the world has changed so much since then .
there are pros and cons but giggs and united are very different to wilf and his time pal.

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11 Aug 2015 13:13:22
So much hate going on for lvg, is unbelievable, when was the last season we played free flowing attacking football? Prob when our front 3 was Ronaldo, Rooney and teves even fergies team was boring to watch in his last few years in charge

Believable7 Unbelievable2

11 Aug 2015 13:35:03
When have we played it under LVG, he's done well I feel as a collective when defending but going forward has been left wanting, I expect it to improve but will it improve significantly ?

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11 Aug 2015 13:39:33
They were without a doubt. So does that mean we aren't entitled to expect our teams to improve, despite vast investment and the ability to use hind-sight? We have replaced one manager who was beginning to be out of touch with the modern game, with another one with less ability, hence even worse performances.

We need a young manager with an attacking mind-set. Klippety Klopp.

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11 Aug 2015 14:06:00
just the occasional goal threat would do me tbh

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11 Aug 2015 14:50:32
Ground hog day again I see.

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11 Aug 2015 15:12:38
@sam, and the constant rooney bashing isn't ?

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11 Aug 2015 15:24:46
It is strebo83.

To be honest, I am sick of hearing all the negativity, be it regarding the manager or Rooney.

As it stands, we won our last game. We were not great by any stretch of the imagination, but we won. Yet, judging by some of the comments, it seems that some just want to be constantly negative for one reason or the other.

I don't have rose tinted glasses. I am aware of the teams deficiencies; and I hope we can address them. But I for one think we are in a much stronger place compared to this time last year. That is of course my opinion.

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11 Aug 2015 16:04:57
tbf sam, i wasn't that disheartened with the result weekend and i was happy with the win.

my biggest problem is the lack of quality in our play IS what i expected, i shouldn't be expecting us to be so tedious and boring with no ideas on how to break a team down, even after the manager has had one full season, 2 training camps and spent a quatre of a billion pounds, the players still don't know how to attack with this slow, possession based style.

Any even mediocre manager should be able to figure out, this ain't working

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11 Aug 2015 16:07:44
Also my opinion Sam good post .

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11 Aug 2015 16:39:33
Wow beast, moyes is a better manager than lvg! I've heard it all now.

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11 Aug 2015 17:09:22
Strebor83,

I think there were signs towards the end of last season that we were getting a but more potency in our attack; and I am hoping with the introduction of another pacey attacking player, we will almost be forced to play with a bit more directness in our attacking play.

I think that Mata - although a top player - does not have the pace to stretch defences; thus he often comes inside or drops off the full back in order to pick up the ball which has the effect of slowing down our play. The left side seems more productive because there is more pace. I just hope we see Depay deployed left sided attack. I think him and Shaw pose a formidable threat down the left side.

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11 Aug 2015 12:59:14
Is it just me or is there this lingering feeling that players like Rojo/Herrera/Januzaj/Pereira/Chic, won't get a chnace to prove their worth and will all be gone in about 2-3 years?

With Rojo especially, he is better than Blind at LCB and miles better than Evans and Jones. Hopefuly he'll be given a chance, but there's something telling me he wont. Herrera also.

Maybe i'm being paranoid.

Believable1 Unbelievable3

11 Aug 2015 13:15:40
Yeah harry you got it in one. We are only going to use the11 that started for every other game this season all other players are surplus to retirements and won't play at all.
Cop yourself on in a 55 game season no more than 5 players will play 40 plus games the average will be 35 or less so there is lots of starts for all

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11 Aug 2015 13:42:49
Harry,

You know Herrera played on Saturday? Rojo came back late so hasn't played a game yet, Pereira and Hernandez were on the bench. I expect Hernandez to leave if I am honest, if LVG didn't rate him last year I am not sure why he will now.

Trying to explain the same as Ken only less sarcastically, although Ken's post did make me laugh!

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11 Aug 2015 13:43:43
Januzaj was given a shot last season and didn't take it. Rojo will likely be picked a lot. I don't get Herrera, but the manager is entitled to pick the team he wants. He just shouldn't contradict himself and shouldn't have agreed to the deal in the first place.

Hernandez isn't good enough. Perreira looks great but this formation doesn't suit him especially as Herrera, Fellaini, Mata and Depay are all ahead of him for the one position, possibly even Januzaj.

I don't agree with most of what the manager says or does, but he is the manager and if he doesn't fancy those players he shouldn't play them.

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11 Aug 2015 13:50:47
Given that Rojo missed the same plane as ADM (albeit for different reasons) which would've made him the last to return from holiday, we could assume he's not yet fit enough to be considered for selection?

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11 Aug 2015 14:20:47
I think all of those players will stay at the club long after LVG has gone Harry, United are already in talks regarding possible replacements.

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11 Aug 2015 16:04:34
wow GDS i was not sure people would recognise the sarcasm. :)
Honestly though some posts over the last few days have been hard to read It was not a dig at Harry that straw was the one that broke the Camels back for me and by no means was it the worst or most idiotic.

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11 Aug 2015 12:49:26
Anyone who watched the City game last night would have seen Sterling get the ball and drive at the WBA defence with his pace and skill at every opportunity.

This is exactly what I would like to see from Depay. Not stuck in behind the striker in the middle of the park with the game passing him by. He showed glimpses of being a future WC winger last season so get him out wide and let the boy play!

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11 Aug 2015 13:19:18
LVG is way to rigid to accept that the dream he saw at night for putting depay in center will not work.
It took loooong for him to revert to back four and accept back 5 won't work.

So it will happen but around December. Just wait buddy

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11 Aug 2015 12:10:55
Afternoon. A lot of negativity towards LVG. People seem to of forgotten that we needed to ship out a lot of deadwood, Moyes didn't do that, we looked so uncomfortable and unconfident on the ball under Moyes we could not string 2 passes together, we could not attract top players that would of made a difference to us such as Fabregas or Thiago.
LVG has come in and got rid of the players who are not to standard, he has got the players more confident in recieving the ball and keeping possession, he has attracted a better calibre of player then previous windows. He has also signed a 3 year contract and seems quite intent in honouring it, no more, no less.
The point is, we needed a strong character to rebuild the foundations which fell apart under Moyes, we needed someone strong to come in a say ''You're not good enough''. We needed someone to come in and get players confident on the ball again, to receive the ball in tight spaces. LVG has done all this. He is relaying the foundations for perhaps Klopp or Guardiola or even Giggs to build upon in 2 years. Is it what we want to see or used to seeing? No. But for me it is going a long way to eventually ensuring we once again have a long period of success rather than sporadic success here and there.

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11 Aug 2015 12:41:00
For a guy 'relaying the foundations' he sure is spending a huge amount of cash. He is trying to buy short term success in my opinion.

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11 Aug 2015 12:41:20
Exactly. But some are too short sighted or to spoilt by success to see.

We had/ have too many players who were past it or never hit potential and needed weeding out. This is being done.

Yes mistakes have been made, Falcao and di Maria but even Fergie made mistakes. let's see where we are in a few games.

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11 Aug 2015 12:41:59
But having 70% possession in games doesn't guarantee you goal, and therefore wins, and therefore success.

We still look to keep the ball between goal keeper and back 4.

I agree with the deadwood comments, but even with all our new players who are a level above the level of play hasn't evolved with it. We are still playing this painfully slow, death by 1000 passes.

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11 Aug 2015 13:17:30
Maze what do you think our net spending will be this summer?

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11 Aug 2015 13:46:12
MAZE,

Would a manager after only short term success have signed Memphis Depay and played him from the start?

Also, do you think United fans would allow him to build for the long term and win nothing for a few years whilst doing this? In this day and age and with the supporters at united it is essential we continue to win in the short term whilst also planning for the long term because if the short term isn't successful he will be sacked before he has a chance to implement the stuff for the long term, he has to find that balance and he seems to be at the moment.

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11 Aug 2015 13:47:39
Ken

At the moment I read an article that indicated net spend right now is only £12m

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11 Aug 2015 13:58:13
moyes maybe couldn't string passes together, but it seems LVG likes a team that doesn't have shots on goal, or any kind of risk to open a team up.

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11 Aug 2015 11:07:15
Bit of a cheeky question here but who do you is holding. The team back the most arm Rooney or Van Gaal?

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11 Aug 2015 11:26:00
Ermm what?

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11 Aug 2015 11:36:43
spaghetti elephant trumpet

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11 Aug 2015 11:40:17
I think the question sis who is holding the team back more - LVG or Wazza. Personally, I think we will be better off when both move on. I like LVG, he is great entertainment but I still have no idea what his philosophy is. All I know is we look dull and pedestrian. I realise it was 1 game but we still saw a lot of passing back and a lack of penetration. We need creativity and pace and I think Roooney won't work up front as he lacks pace. Not going get into the Rooney debate again but if Benzema is available, I'm amazed we have not tried to sign him

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11 Aug 2015 11:58:27
jwalk
are u talking about last season or the spurs match

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11 Aug 2015 12:04:59
Everything will be better when they both go. LVG is the worst though, a replacement may at least galvanise Rooney and not tangle himself up in "undroppable" comments. I don't rate Rooney highly, but he is the type of player that lifts his game when he has something to fight for (new contract for example). So a new manager may introduce much needed competition and also a new system which gets the most from attacking players. At the moment we could have Ronaldo, Messi & Bale up top and we would still look devoid of ideas.

When LVG goes we will get more joy from watching our beloved team, I am very confident of that.

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11 Aug 2015 12:05:29
I think its LVG all day long. His obsession with possession is sacrificing any sort of style and excitement. I think the biggest problem is LVG ego, I know his philosophy is what it is and no player stands out and they are all equal, but sometimes it doesn't work like that.
Its tough because on one hand I am genuinely excited by this UTD team leading up to every game thinking we are going to be great. Then I watch it i'm always left feeling a bit disappointed. Even when we win.

The same conversation was aimed at Mourinho and Chelsea, boring football but getting results. Winning 1-0 etc.

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11 Aug 2015 12:18:16
Rooney, has done for about 4 seasons

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11 Aug 2015 12:28:38
Tony,

I agree about Benzema, maybe we are looking at somebody else.

If somehow we managed to win the league playing boring football would people be happy with that? I think I would knowing that LVG is not a long term solution, the manager after this needs a solid framework to go with and will hopefully be able to settle and look to the future.

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11 Aug 2015 12:37:27
Apologies did not realise the damage that my spell check had done, and yes ajh that was what I was meant to mean. Not dig on LVG to much he has done a very important task in removing the dead wood but with the tactics he persists in employing (which I don't think work in the premier league I.e the slow build up) I'm not too sure how much further he can take us.

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11 Aug 2015 12:47:22
do we look a better team when rooney isn't in it .

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11 Aug 2015 13:21:01
Lvg definitely. We have not progressed from where we were 12 months ago. We're playing boring slow football. We've sacrificed speed entertainment for slow possession.

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11 Aug 2015 13:48:26
Schmidfield,

12 months ago we lost 2-1 at home to Swansea and had no Champions League football to look forward to after finishing 7th. You have a very short memory if you think there has been no progress in 12 months.

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11 Aug 2015 14:02:36
would of been interesting to see how our team would of looked if fergie was given the green light to go build another team

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11 Aug 2015 14:19:54
LOL

Here we go. We might as well call this season a write off already.


Sod being in the trenches with some of you guys. I think I would rather dive on my bayonet.

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11 Aug 2015 15:07:11
It's LVG that's digging the trench though Sam. He is making a tricky job much harder than it ought to be.

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11 Aug 2015 15:30:11
Sorry beast, I don't agree mate. I think we are in a decent position at the moment. Yes, we need to bring in another attacking player and sort the De Gea situation out, but I think the team looks stronger and more organised, and that is mainly due to having a better CM and a proper RB.
If we can bring in Pedro or a player of that ilk, I think we will revert to a proper 433 formation with Depay and potentially Pedro attacking from the wings, which will, IMO, make us a more potent attacking force.

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11 Aug 2015 11:02:59
What does the Eds and everyone think about Hristo Stoichkov's comments that LVG is destroying United?

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{Ed001's Note - I think everyone knows that I feel that LVG is only ever going to be a short term option because his personality is so abrasive that he ends up ruining all team spirit at every club he has been involved with. Having said that, Stoichkov was a pain in the arse as a player himself, and he was a part of the problem at Barca too.}

11 Aug 2015 11:57:59
LVG got rid of Stoichkov because his best days were behind him. Barca needed to move on and that is what he did. After Barca, Stoichkov went to Sofia then to Saudi Arabia, China and the U.S. It would seem Mr Stoichkov is very bitter and needs to move on.

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11 Aug 2015 12:07:06
I agree with ed, LVG came in to settle the ship after a bad season after SAF left. He'll be here this season and maximum 1 more and then will retire. A bit rich the comments coming from Stoichkov, from what I remember of him as a player. Just fancies getting his name back in the spotlight I'd guess.

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11 Aug 2015 12:23:15
Nice to read your thoughts Ed. I guess there was a toxic environment at Barca at that time and still bitterness in Stoichkov. Hard as an outsider to figure LVG out, he comes across as a character but I guess his reputation tells a tale. Personally hope the team spirit gels well but am finding it hard to buy into the brand of football 'philosophy' he adopts, it's not the Dutch 'total football' I thought it might be.

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11 Aug 2015 10:59:00
Watching City last night (who were awesome) and it got me thinking how many of our players would get in their first 11?

Assuming DDG is gone, a case could be made for Smalling but Mangala looked great last night and very imposing. Other than that maybe Morgan or Carrick (Bastian should he get fit) in place of Fernando-inho and that's about it for me at the moment. If De Bruyne is added then they will be frightening to behold this season.

They have two proven PL scorers in Bony and Aguero and we have Rooney who we all know blows hot and cold. We have spent £250million over the past two years (with more to come I'm sure) and how many WC players do we have to show for it? Imagine we took that cash and bought 6-7 top players instead of splashing out on decent ones.

A lot of people were writing City of this season (I don't know why) but with no AFCON and a settled team they will be right up in the mix until the last whistle. C'mon Louis drop this 'philosophy' and bring back the United identity of free flowing attacking football so we can attempt to match them all the way.

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11 Aug 2015 11:15:47
Were they awesome or were west brom absolutely appalling? Bit of both I think but west brom got their tactics totally wrong last night, played right into city's hands.

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11 Aug 2015 11:22:01
City played well last night but to be fair Pulis got it all wrong. 4-4-2 against City is just madness.

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11 Aug 2015 11:28:00
gds
city played very well last night

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11 Aug 2015 11:41:34
It was 1 game. Amazing how so many people are attaching so much significance to 1 game. Perhaps West Ham will finish in the top 4.

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11 Aug 2015 11:45:38
ajh
not really pal.
i just thought they played well last night

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11 Aug 2015 12:12:34
Was the philosophy not in place when we beat them a few months ago? I'd say we more than matched them in the second half of the season. Like AJH said, don't throw everything overboard after one game. The best teams iv seen this weekend were Leicester and Swansea and i'm not worried about matching them either. i'd hate any of my blue mates to see the way reds are talking about us being so inferior to them, its very moyes esq

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11 Aug 2015 12:17:02
It was just a general observation jred. We didn't play well so we are doomed, City play well so are the team to beat. I envy their squad but they looked dodgy at times last year. I think we can pip them to 3rd. It will struggle to match Chelsea and Arsenal (especially if Arsenal sign a top class forward). Having said that, whilst we have the players to compete, I'm not sure LVG will get the best out of them. He does seem somewhat rigid in his approach

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11 Aug 2015 12:09:03
I've tipped city for the title.

regards who could get in there team, there's valid arguments for Shaw, Smalling, DDG and maybe Mata.

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11 Aug 2015 12:31:04
jred,

Me too, I said it was a bit of both, but West Brom really played into their hands, there is a way of playing against how City played last night and Pulis got it totally wrong, I could tell after 5 minutes City were going to win 3 or 4-0.

They will need to play better than that in a lot of games but to play how they did last night without getting out of 2nd gear was impressive.

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11 Aug 2015 12:41:16
Bony has been cat pish since joining Citeh

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11 Aug 2015 12:37:16
ajh
true that's the way the site is knee jerk reactions week after week.

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11 Aug 2015 16:56:52
Carrick would get into every team in the league imo, with maybe the exception of Chelsea, Shaw possibly, and probably Smalling. I think possibly Fellaini would also get into a lot of teams as an impact sub/starter for the likes of Liverpool and Spurs, (although I do rate him as a starter for us) But I doubt any of our other attacking players would get into Citys team.

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11 Aug 2015 09:38:07
With city very good yesterday and looking favs to land Debruyne they have best attack in PL. Aguero, Silva, Debruyne, Sterling, toure. Nasri, navas, Bony for backup. City v Chelsea match will be huge i think even this early into the season.

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11 Aug 2015 10:43:59
Imagine if they land Otamendi, with Yaya showing the form he showed couple of seasons before they will be so powerful.

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11 Aug 2015 09:30:44
watched city last night and that was the best performance of the weekend .
power ,pace and movement .
main man was as always silva in the same way the main man for chelsea last season was hazard.
and this imo is one of the things united miss.
we miss a special player to run and unlock a game and we need to change our system this slow possession football won't work in the epl.

ADM was meant to be that man i think maybe lvg wants bale to be that man but we lacked creativity last season and it was a similar story on saturday.
many would like a new striker and i can understsnd why but i think the problem runs deeper.
i made the point down the page falcao scored as many goals for colombia in 7 games as he did for united last season.
rvp got 10, he might be getting on but he is a better striker than that .

many would like lewandowski or benzema and why not ,both are top players but lew got 17 league gosl league goals last season and ben 14.
both play in attacking team that are far better than the teams around them and yet is 17 and 14 goals great.
what makes people think they will walk in to this united team and bag goal after goal.

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11 Aug 2015 10:37:06
Jred like I said when Rooney was getting his bottom slapped by everyone, it's not the player, it's the philosophy. Lvg won't win a trophy if he doesn't rectify this slow, boring and take no risk football.

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11 Aug 2015 10:47:25
I think this so called philosophy works when the team comes at you and tries to fight for the ball. Unfortunately most teams in the Premier League are just going to sit back and try to score by counter attacks and set pieces.
With pelegrinni signing a new contract, we may have a choice between pep, klopp and even ancelotti in the near future.i do think we'll get better though.

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11 Aug 2015 11:06:47
Jred

I don't think it just needs a striker, I have said before it needs more than that, it needs a pacey creative player as well. For me we need two players or a minimum of Bale but for me Bale or possibly Pedro AND a striker is needed

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11 Aug 2015 11:17:08
the style is too slow and too predictable. it wouldn't matter if we signed messironalbale ! i thought top managers are supposed to adapt

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11 Aug 2015 11:19:58
redman
like i said in my post i'm far from convinced its as simple as buying a striker.
what makes you think lew or benz would score more for united than they managed for munich and madrid.
we spent 60 on adm but did he fit in .

does mata work in this system .
carragher made a great point about sterling adding drive to the city game last night .

like i said last season i think our issues run deeper than just spend even more money on x y or z.

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11 Aug 2015 11:44:25
Jred

I had disagreements with a few on here about Mata when bought. He was not what we needed and lacked pace. At the moment our transition from defence through midfield to attack is too slow. If we want to challenge we need more than one player at the forward end

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11 Aug 2015 12:46:00
redman
i don't want to get into a big post about it as it has been done to death but i think if people want us to play a certain style of football then its a new manager we need.
i think we have got a good squad i think we had good squad last year.
you don't need to buy lewandowski and bale to play good attractive football.
other teams play very well with "lesser" players than we have .

this squad is capable of it so was last season imo .

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11 Aug 2015 13:18:08
We have enough to play attractive football but to play attractive winning football we need some top players now.

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11 Aug 2015 13:41:56
we have top players,
we can put a starting 11 out that on paper looks very strong .
but our football has been average.
last summer di maria , falcao and rvp where all considered top players how did that work out .

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11 Aug 2015 18:30:26
Jred

I don't believe we have top echelon players, we have good players that probably make up the fourth best team in the league and I would add that I don't think many of our players would get in Chelsea or City's teams. The difference is that Chelsea have Hazard and Costa, City Silva, Aguero, Sterling , Arsenal Sanchez and we don't have that level of player. It will tell unless we sort it out by 1st Sept.

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11 Aug 2015 18:55:01
redman
so matas not a top player.(he was untill we bought him )
herrera is not a top player. he was fantastic in spain .
schniederlin not a top player, i would say he is the best player in the league in his position .

was ADM a top player before we bought him.

im not a massive fan of costa and the lad has a major injury issue .
i think depay is a top player as well.

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11 Aug 2015 09:26:43
Not sure how many of you on here are smokers (filthy habit i know).

Has anyone been to spain and brought back one of those 'booster packs' of cigarettes?

They all say 'Fumar mata' which i'm guessing means 'smoking kills' .

Does this mean mata=kills.

Always knew he was a deadly player ;-)

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11 Aug 2015 10:40:26
I think his nickname is 'Jonny Kills' as this is the literal translation of his name.

Could be wrong though.

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11 Aug 2015 10:55:47
Essentially, yes it is the translation

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11 Aug 2015 08:30:01
Hi eds/posters

Just wanted to ask what people's opinions are on the whole Valdes situation. Do people think it is down to only not wanting to play for the U21's?

I seen Valdes at the game the other day sat with the other players but he wasn't even wearing the club suit, that along with never playing, training and eating alone etc. I have a feeling he's done something else, if not then I think it's pretty disgusting from van gaal if I'm honest, I don't know what happens behind the scenes but being isolated like that is borderline bullying if u ask me.

It's a dangerous game van gaal is playing too, I should imagine nowadays footballers are a lot softer than back in the day, it only takes Valdes to speak to one of his friends, say Pedro for example and say to him "don't come here mate, look at what he's done to me".

If it is down to not playing for the U21's it only takes another player to see their backside with van gaal, then they do the same thing, then they get their move to another club.

Just wanted to see the other posters/eds opinions on the situation

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11 Aug 2015 10:41:53
Apparently Diego it has upset a lot of the Spanish speakers in the camp as well. I also think it's fishy the whole situation especially with DDG in limbo at the moment.

Interesting today seeing Stoichkov telling Pedro to reject United as he believes 'Van Gaal is destroying United like he did Barca" and to "just look at the way Valdes has been treated".

If anyone has any input on this I would be very interested to hear other opinions.

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11 Aug 2015 11:05:55
Bullying?!?! Get a grip, footballers get paid enough money they can do what they are asked to do.

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11 Aug 2015 11:24:52
Because Barca treated Valdes so well.

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11 Aug 2015 11:51:47
Stoichkov was a great player but also a world class ballbag so I wouldn't pass much remarks on his opinions

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11 Aug 2015 13:13:32
TOT66 I understand they are paid thousands but that doesn't excuse the treatment. Here's an example Valdes allegedly doesn't play for U21's (even tho he did) he gets isolated and told he can't play for us again, Di Maria doesn't show up for a tour, yet van gaal comes out and says he hope he stays? How are they any different? Imagine how degrading it must be to turn up to work and be forced to eat alone? Whether u earn millions or not it's still out of order

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11 Aug 2015 13:14:11
RedRosie,

How did barca treat Valdes poorly? He said he didn't want to stay

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11 Aug 2015 13:34:46
Diego, did you expect LVG to come out and say that he thinks that our biggest playing asset in terms of £££ is no longer wanted and will be sold as soon as possible? How much would we have got for him then? Only LVG knows what he really thinks about both players.

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11 Aug 2015 08:14:03
In a weird sort of way I want lvg to be gone by the end of the season I just don't understand this "philosophy". Herrara by far one of our stand out players last season will be snapped up by the likes of Barca and in two seasons time when lvg has gone we will only have him to blame. Herrera is the type of player whose head is not easily turned and loves the club but if he is constantly getting snubbed I would not blame him.
LVG constantly states he wants a left footed defender but plays Blind when we have other options that yes are still risky but not an accident waiting to happen.
Valdes may have snubbed playing for u21s but surely he can be given a second chance if the likes of Rooney can hold the club to ransom and spits his dummy to be rewarded with a pay rise and captaincy (all be under a different manager) but a player for what ever reason does not want to play in u21s or reserves is ousted and treated like some chewing gum stuck on my trainers then what hope have we got.
I would guarantee if Moyes was in charge of this current squad we would be playing better football and would have a solid defence.
I hope I eat my words and lvg proves me wrong I just feel we are at least one more new manager away from been title contenders but if lvg keeps treating players like his is now then we could loose some of those players we are all crying out for him to play and the new manager will be back to square one.

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11 Aug 2015 10:47:00
I agree I think should get rid of him don't like the way he treats players his football philosophy is pathetic I'm from glasgow and can't get down to see many games but supported man utd all my days even through the bad times when we won an facup here or there but his style of football is the worse I've ever watched in the 35 years of supporting us

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11 Aug 2015 11:09:48
Nonsense post! How can you guarantee something like that. Interesting to know that the Philosophy is at fault because you don't understand it, I am just surprised that nobody from United has consulted you previously.

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11 Aug 2015 08:10:13
If we were looking for a pacy, creative winger i have no idea why we didn't go for konoplyanka(spelling).

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11 Aug 2015 11:10:18
Because he is average at best.

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11 Aug 2015 12:54:16
TOT66's answer we surfice

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11 Aug 2015 07:23:06
What's everyone's thoughts on Lucas biglia ? The last we need is another midfielder. Wouldn't have thought lvg would be so naive and think we're need to bolster midfield without addressing the defence or attack e

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11 Aug 2015 01:01:49
Happy birthday Roy keane,sit back Roy take a selfie drink a six pack and watch the arsenal v West Ham game,six pack and selfies looked that way yesterday for arsenal,
Just wish we had someone with his drive and passion now,even a bit of hatred he had for other teams.when you think about it most of the pl players do love themselves,a few of them are obsessed with their look,
Give me a Roy type player any day

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{Ed007's Note - I'm filling up here....

11 Aug 2015 00:04:44
Regarding Shappy's post further down, I completely agree about Berahino.

For half the price we would have the perfect back-up/apprentice to Wayne himself. Berahino is what? 21/22? He would fit in nicely in our squad and with better service he could score 20+ goals a season easily.

Against City tonight, providing he had little to no service, he still provided a threat going forward and also put a shift in at the back.

Also with West Brom spend 10m+ on Rondon from Zenit, surely Berahino is on his way out to balance the books?

I hope he is our secret striker signing, along side a new CB and Pedro we would have a tasty squad.

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11 Aug 2015 00:21:15
Weggy the problem is though Berahino is a smallish quick forward (pace of which we lack yes) and if he is asked to play the way Rooney is being asked to play and the way Falcao was asked before him, with his back to goal while receiving zero service, Berahino would become a passenger.

I think Berahino is a decent player (I am a little offput by his attitude which has hindered many a young player in the past) but what is the point in sigining a player who will most likely have to try and completely modify his game. Surely if LVG wants to play this way then he should just go out and buy a striker who fits in.

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11 Aug 2015 01:01:19
Maze. You hit it on the nail.

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11 Aug 2015 06:19:16
Maze,Schmid

You know I agree, I really don't get the obsession of buying lesser players in the vain hope we make them great. The SAF days have gone, the fear factor isn't there anymore. If we buy lesser players we won't get above the top teams who have better players. We do not need a back up for Wayne, we need a top player who will drive Wayne's level higher as he competes to get in the side.

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11 Aug 2015 08:10:39
Agreed Red Man. Why do we want to buy a lesser player just to keep rooney happy. Our club thrives on competition. It is what makes us a great club. We shouldn't be buying lessee players, we need to buy players who have desire to come here and are already better than what we've got.
Watched City last night and they were excellent. Wba never had a chance. They've gone and.spent big on Sterling. That's not a gamble as we all know he is premiership proven and.will only improve. And now they are after de Bruyne, and add toure and silva and you can see them creating and.scoring a shed load of goals.
Why are we not chasing the top players who we know will lift us? Otimendi will improve us. Lewandawaski will transform us. Reus will improve us on the wings. Greizman will improve our creativity. And yet we're chasing a good player in Pedro who is OK but not world class.
And to make things worse, Lvg tells us striker is not a priority. I despair!!
Top 4 will not happen with this team.

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11 Aug 2015 09:16:03
Chicharito > Berahino!

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mbd              

11 Aug 2015 09:45:22
I also echo RedMans post. All great teams have more than one top striker. Why should we be looking for someone to play second fiddle to Wayne? We should be looking for someone to push him in order to keep him at his best.

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11 Aug 2015 10:32:50
Maze and Redman, I think you are both correct.

The question is which players fit both criteria of being able to play the van Gaal way and also are good enough to challenge undroppable Wayne for his place.

I think Zlatan is the best fit and I'd love to see him at OT for his entertainment value.

Apologies if we've already covered this but who else fits the 'philosophy'?

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11 Aug 2015 10:52:19
I would ponder that without proper investment in the right players we may find ourselves having to look for another manager towards the end of this season because the club will expect an improvement from last. Whilst we have bought and sold reasonably well we are missing three players for me.
1. A top pacey creative wide forward - Bale, Griezman
2. A top striker - Lewandowski
3. A top defender- Godin, Ramos

LVG has made reasonably good moves so far but failure to finish the job will likely mean failure to secure the clubs objectives and he would not likely survive that especially with Klopp and Ancelotti presently free

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11 Aug 2015 13:14:55
redman
is that not what happened to moyes.

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11 Aug 2015 14:10:49
Jred

Difference is LVG got top 4 and identified the players who needed to move, he didn't dither thinking he had years to sort it out. I don't like the style but he seems to have a plan and is putting it into place. He should however be judged on his objectives and if he doesn't meet them or the club is not satisfied with progress then he is vulnerable. The window hasn't closed but there is some big business still to be done and he is vulnerable if he gets it wrong from here.

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11 Aug 2015 14:36:58
redman
from the 250 mil lvg has spent who do you think has played really well

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10 Aug 2015 23:41:41
First game against spurs may not have been a great performance but we got three points something Chelsea and Arsenal failed to do at home against teams considered to be lesser teams than spurs. I'm fairly confident the performances will improve because we have signed very good players and I think will add a few more. On the most part I have to say lvg has got it right in terms of the players that have departed and I think this will show in the coming months. Personally I believe we need 3 players to challenge and that is a centre half,winger and striker. Pedro,Otamendi and Kane are the three linked today and most people would be ecstatic with that. Don't understand the link with biglia when we need players in other positions far more. After one game people need to have some perspective it's far to early to be judging players or performances. The new faces are still fitting in. Darmian impressed me greatly and the best is yet to come from Memphis. I do understand Saturday wasn't great in terms of quality but not many teams hit the ground running. A few more additions and we could have a super side in my opinion.

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11 Aug 2015 00:26:26
You are right Irwin. We got the points which is the main thing. I think after last seasons perfromances we are just all hoping to see better this year. I think most brushed the performances under the carpet last season as we knew CL qualification was the main thing and the manager had the WC beforehand.

For me watching on Saturday I was just hoping with a full preseason under his belt and some good looking new siginings we would have put on a better home display. But all in all I am pleased we got the points.

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11 Aug 2015 00:54:01
First game of the season we didn't always play great under fergie. The 3-1 defeat at villa park. Seem to remember an opening day draw with Leicester and Newcastle at old Trafford. I think another draw with reading. I expect the level of performance will improve from Saturday. I think it will take most teams a few games to get fitness and match fitness up to scratch add to that integrated new players into the playstyle and system.

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