Manchester United Banter Archive December 11 2017

11 Dec 2017 22:05:38
The team is not complete and City's is and that was a difference. People compare what Jose and Pep spent whilst forgetting Pep inherited a far better set of players than Jose, including the likes of Aguero and De Bruyne.

Yesterday we played in a way that people didn't like. However, it was pragmatic, based on what we have. We are not the finished article, yet. I recall being 3 nil down to Arsenal under Louis and the players looking shell shocked, now they compete. Add key players, key top players and it will improve

However, I maintain the point that we haven't planned well for years and City have. Now is the time we should all watch what our owners and what Woodward does. Buying players, supporting the manager is only one thing. What are they doing about the stadium, the youth, their aims on putting the club back at the top, they need to communicate to us and about far more than the latest bootlace sponsor. Sadly I suspect more of the same from the owners. They, however, are the ones we should be putting under pressure to see improvement.

12 Dec 2017 01:55:19
Redman funny of you to mention lvg, I also remember a few lvg matches like 4-2 vs city or beating Liverpool at Anfield, don't see Mourinho even attempting that, must be Woodward, Glazer and of course Saf's fault.

Do we also blame them for changing a formation that was working well, or do we them for the genius decision to bench our only cb who actually knows how to pass while asking the cb's to play long balls or let's blame them for playing a donkey who has aerial strength of a little girl and hold up skills of a little rabbit and has been rubbish against all big teams.

12 Dec 2017 06:36:25
CSM

Is seem to recall a goal drought under LVG and some of the dullest football akin to Sextons era. Seems like rose tinted glasses have now moved on to LvG. To help eyesight the City and Liverpool teams are also somewhat better than they were at the time of lvg.

We won two trophies last season and are sat in second. It’s about time some realised we have no Devine right to be the best, it needs a plan, a great team with a top manager. It is tough to go from 6th to 1st but we are on a path that has seen improvements, we have world class fans but unfortunately some are world class moaners, I guess it’s the social media era. Jose had my support but I do see problems with the owners.

12 Dec 2017 07:00:33
Did i say the football was wonderful or anything such, you talked about being 3-0 down at arsenal and not competing i just showed how we actually competed and not only competed but attacked and won against big teams especially away unlike Mourinho.

World Class moaners more like Pot Kettle Black, i remember you and kloot posting during fergie's time and then under both moyes and lvg, it was all doom and gloom and criticism be it of manager, team, owners. Now you post valid criticism of manager you get called moaners, how times change.

12 Dec 2017 19:38:30
CSM

World class moaners wasn’t aimed at you actually

I posted on here during SAF time, from about 2010 I recall, particularly about the transition and learning from Busby, did I get that wrong? I posted about the debt and we are still lumbered by it. I was very against Moyes from the start that I will say. With LvG you can’t have it both ways, I take stick for defending him as manager for about 18 months because whilst he wasn’t my choice he had experience to give him time. I said he should have been the springboard to bring in Pep, we missed that trick.
Criticism is fine but the stuff I read on live chat is beyond that.

11 Dec 2017 19:58:16
Why aren't we focussing on the positives and how far the team has come since Jose took over?

Lingard looks a good player, Martial has started to settle in and so has Lindelof, Rashford is playing well too. It looks like we might keep De Gea now and Lukaku's linkup play has improved a lot since his Everton days. We're 2nd in the league and I can see us making the UCL semis.

That's great progress by Jose from where he found the team. He's addressing each problem area one by one.

11 Dec 2017 20:23:42
We also have a good defense now with Bailly and Lindelof both comfortable on the ball. We know Jose wants to bring in a new left back with Sandro and Danny Rose being linked. He also wants a midfielder or two. Milinkovic Savic and Carlos Soler, both highly rated young players are the ones we seem to be targeting. He has clearly identified that we need a winger too as the interest in Perisic shows. The ed has suggested that we might replace Zlatan with Lewandowski at the end of the season.

I'd be happy with those 4-5 signings. We need to look at the malaise Moyes and LVG left us in while we evaluate progress. People keep bleating on about defensive football, yet this team is much better than last year and way better than LVG's 70% possession 0 chances created borefest. I quite like the counter attacking style and most people before the City game would have said we've played well this season.

Its going to take a few more signings for Jose to have the squad he needs to perform at a high level consistently and not be overly dependent on Pogba in midfield.

11 Dec 2017 21:22:20
You see the glass as half full, some see it as half empty. Take Sterling as an example. He is currently in the form of his life and we can only surmise that is down to his Manager. You name some of our players playing well although Lukaku is stretching it a bit. As for Martial, Shaw, Miki, is it not up to Jose to get the best out of them? Martial has been very inconsistent, Jesse has had bright moments but not a run of them. Herrera has regressed, Lukaku currently looks out of his depth. The feel of the club isn’t great and that’s because bolshy Jose seems to want to find an argument all the time.

Last year we were 6th and struggled against ‘lower’ teams. This year we are comfortably second so that is clear progress but it doesn’t always feel like it. I guess the stats speak for themselves, 2nd highest scorers and nobody has conceded fewer. The next window or two will be critical but I don’t see that Rose or Perisic take us to the next level.

There has clearly been some over reacting to Sunday’s defeat but take a step back, like it or not, City are setting the standard right now both on and off the pitch.

11 Dec 2017 22:16:15
AJH,

Jose has made Martial a better player imo. His positioning and timing has improved and he also works harder defensively now.

Lingard whenever he plays CAM plays well imo.

Lukaku's linkup play is much better than at Everton. Everyone is talking of Sterling but it took pep a year and a half to get the beat out of him. Surely Jose deserves that much with Lukaku?

City's defense is not better than ours. We have the better keeper. And you can argue that we have the better strikers or its evens.

Where they beat us hands down is midfield quality. De Bruyne, Silva, Gundogan, Bernardo Silva, Sterling and Sane coming in centrally are all better than what we have. Only Pogba can make a case to get into their midfield.

But since midfield is where games are controlled from it seems as though they are way better than us, when in fact we have the better keeper, the better defense and probably a better attack too.

If we buy a couple of midfielders, maybe a winger and a stable left back I'm sure we can go toe to toe with them.

11 Dec 2017 23:32:22
I’d rather have Aguero and Jesus than Lukaku and ibra.

Ibra was a waste of sub every game so far.

12 Dec 2017 09:55:07
Martial, Jones, Pogba, Fellaini, Young, Valencia, Lingard, Rojo, Herrera (last season) all massively improved under Jose.

Shaw is a busted flush and needs to be sold. Lukaku will come good and Rashford is young and inconsistent. Others don’t seem to either have the right attitude or just aren’t good enough. Miki, Darmian etc.

12 Dec 2017 10:55:32
Eric, I'll give you Lingard and Young, but the others?

Martial improved on his first season? I still think he'll turn out to be a class player, but I wouldn't say he's improved since his first season, though I do expect him to improve no matter what manager comes in. Jones and Rojo are good players, who haven't been able to show their true worth, due to injuries and/ or being played out of position. Fellaini has been played all over the place since he was bought, limiting his effectiveness at times, together with the ridiculous way he was treated by some so-called fans. Valencia has been a good, solid player for years, but improving in the last one and a half seasons? And by your own admission, Herrera has gone backwards this season.

Just think you're stretching José's powers of improvement a wee bit there, mate. I also still believe Shaw is going to be a top left back, either with us or another club.

11 Dec 2017 16:39:06
I think the league is gone now.

The game was purely and simply lost in midfield. We had too many players furtherforward waiting to counter but nobody in midfield to start it off. A priority for the January window should be a midfielder. We look completely hopeless without Pogba.

After looking at the UCL draw I have a feeling that Jose can pull something special off for us in the Champions League. He's beaten better teams with a worse Inter Milan before and he can do it again with a much better United squad. We need a little bit of midfield padding for sure. There is nobody better than Jose in one off knockout games. One of Real and PSG will be out, Chelsea are deadly on the counter with Hazard and they always do well against Barcelona. Bayern aren't the force they once were.

It could be a repeat of last season's European campaign for us where we knew we couldn't do much in the league and focussed on Europe and won. We might just sail through with the likes of PSG, Real, City, Barcelona having to face each other while we just have to win that one big tie.

11 Dec 2017 18:51:41
Yesterday was a one off game in that it was one by common consent we had to win. We didn't and our midfield was nowhere to be seen creatively wise. We need to do more than just pad out our midfield. We need a top left back and at least one top class winger too.

11 Dec 2017 18:52:49
Redfaith. Agreed that we need one if not two midfielders but January is not a good time to buy them.
I think we'll progress past sevilla and I think we're a good cup team. But I don't think we're capable of beating psg real Barcelona Bayern juve or even city over two legs. So I think quarter finals will be as far as we get.

11 Dec 2017 20:05:39
Attack Attack Attack.

We're more than capable of beating half the teams in that draw. We are simply better than them on paper. I expect us to reach the semis and then it really comes to down to experience. Jose is the best in the business, still, at knockout games.

I would fancy our chances against a Bayern or a Juve for eg in the semis and I don't see PSG as a fully settled side either. I expect that City will have run away with the league, we will be firmly second and both the Manchester clubs will focus on Europe.

If we can get a midfielder in January I believe we have what it takes.

11 Dec 2017 12:06:20
CL draw looks goos for us.

Bet madrid r kicking themselves.

11 Dec 2017 15:37:28
Would have got Juventus if topped the group tho, so not easy either way. Heat was turned right up on those balls when scouse and city came out ha. Not a bad draw for us, tricky opponents Sevilla.

11 Dec 2017 16:01:36
Interesting draw, really happy with our draw. Jose should know plenty about Sevilla having managed in Spain for several years. At this stage of the competition I want us to avoid the tough draws, but at the time you don't want the easiest draw as those are the ones that can trip teams up. Shaktar could have been a tricky tie, lots of travelling and cold whether. Jose returning to Porto has the potential banana skin written all over it. Glad we avoided Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern though. All in all probably the best draw for us.

I think Chelsea could knock Barcelona out, Messi always struggles against them for some reason. I saw that Juventus have lost their last five knock out ties against English sides. So Spurs have a good chance.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see all the English sides in the quarter finals, or at least four of them. I expect Bayern to beat Besiktas. Roma vs Shakhtar could go either way. And one of Real Madrid or PSG will be knocked out. We could see 3 or even 4 English sides in the Semi's, that would be great for the EPL.

11 Dec 2017 16:05:57
I think both Spanish giants are going to get shipped out based on the draw. I reckon 2 english teams and looks like 4 will make it through the quarters.

11 Dec 2017 18:57:26
Barca will beat Chelsea easily. And I think Real will get through against psg.
Us, Liverpool and city to progress too.

11 Dec 2017 11:31:19
ken thank you very much, benny tells me you are providing the team strips for our team. Nice one mate that means a bigger pot for the charities to get, so we all owe you a debt of gratitude.

11 Dec 2017 12:52:33
Seeing as I'm Ed002's side (and I don't want to be responsible for us not getting any United Sharkopod's during next summer's transfer window), Ed001 your going down pal. lol.

{Ed001's Note - I have a plan for dealing with you Shaps, we are going to distract you by asking for a tactical analysis from you. That should take up a good half hour judging by your posts ;-)

11 Dec 2017 13:34:19
That might work, or anything that flashes really, especially if its pretty colours. lol.

{Ed001's Note - by the sounds of it, the kit you will be wearing will be pretty colours!}

11 Dec 2017 15:07:24
My pleasure ed001. Should be a good day. I've been in contact with benny and will sort payment asap just trying to find quickest solution don't want him out of pocket. Looking forward to having a run out it could be my last hurrah😂.

{Ed002's Note - I have someone sorting out our kit.}

11 Dec 2017 16:02:41
Sweet, battle of the kits is on. lol.

11 Dec 2017 16:06:37
Ok 002 thank you.
Pity about some of the reprobates you have wearing them😂
When we win can we have a guarantee in writing you won't stop answering questions on random players or potential swap deals😙😙.

11 Dec 2017 16:55:14
Ken give it up mate, you have no chance of winning. Ed001 is a Kloppite, you'll run around a lot, attempt to press high and tire long before the end of the match. Where as Ed002 is a true tactician, he'll counter your press with some well placed comfortable on the ball defenders and hit you on the counter, then all guns blazing for the last 15 minutes when your team is out on their feet. I see at least a couple of goals for team Ed002 in the last 10 minutes just to smash home the drubbing. 6-1 to Ed002 I think, and that's being generous to you Kloppites or should that be Klappouts. lol.

{Ed002's Note - We do intend to be cleaning the pipes as they say.}

11 Dec 2017 18:29:22
Shappy, as usual using 768 words when 10 would have done😂😂
Just so you know i like to get my retaliation in 1st so ill apologise now in advance 😂.

11 Dec 2017 11:25:01
Great draw, also UCL clearly does not like tottenham.

11 Dec 2017 11:01:22
I remember a time when a loss was a loss and not a manifestation of the crumbling and rusting infrastructure of our football club.

Then came the new age of managers (i'm not talking about the young managers setting the football world alight, but rather how pretty much all of us think we are better managers than those out there) and all of a sudden a loss became something a lot more terrible.

Now, as if, losing a derby game through silly goals and a very lethargic performance and a glorious missed chance wasnt bad enough, We have to, now, think of how our club's done for and will be relegated and we need to change ownership and management and change the whole team and we might as well start playing volleyball and stuff.

I have very limited football knowledge and realize that my opinions are worth jack, but the way i look at it is:

We setup the wrong way without the superstar pogba and played not too well. What frustrates me most, is that for all their possession, city weren't anywhere close to scoring from open play (which is where the defensive setup comes in) .

We lost the game, and i hate it as much as you lot, but let's try and pick ourselves up for the midweek game and see what happens come May.

Peace ya'll.

11 Dec 2017 11:27:27
Great post pal.

11 Dec 2017 11:43:59
spot on, common sense has landed.

11 Dec 2017 10:40:57
Well here we are waiting to see who we draw in the knockout stages of the CL still smarting a little bit from yesterday but not completely surprised at the result and the manner of the defeat after Pogba's red card last week.

The league appears gone now for everyone let alone us. Its one yesterday that we are going to have to take on the chin and move on. Bournemouth and West Brom away are now the games we need to be concentrating on. I hate to say it like any other red but defeat against City now is no shame. Yeah we could have played better but many will disagree with me, lady luck was definitely on their side yesterday. 2 years on the bounce now big penalty claims at the Stretford end have gone their way etc, it happens we rode our luck last week at the emirates at times, Lakaku nearly scored in his own net last week.

Its not all doom and gloom, let's see who we get in the draw and if we are still second come the turn of the year I will be pleased. You knew what you were getting with Jose and yesterday was no different. We need to get behind him and Romelu because they are representing our great club. Its easy to find scapegoats in defeat but what would we have all been saying yesterday if Ibra had scored a last minute 1-0 using the same tactics. Apart from the save from Sane I don't remember them creating a cart load of chance so we can't of been that bad.

11 Dec 2017 09:05:43
Sounds like a few still haven't come to terms with life after fergy .
Not guaranteed success, changing managers etc .

I'm sure everyone is feeling sorry for some of the spoilt United fans .

We will have to make do with a manager like Jose, playing in front of a half empty derelict stadium, watching players like pogba who we bought for a packet of chips, surrounded by semi pros who don't pick up the best pay packets in the league but do get a packet of crisps and half pint after the game .

Bottom of the league, out the cups?
Where's the plan?

11 Dec 2017 09:14:56
You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer Jred, but I cannot help but love you.

11 Dec 2017 09:34:28
Its a relegation battle from here on in jred.

11 Dec 2017 09:59:59
We are doomed I tell ya doomed .


What chance have we got, all the other teams have better managers players money infrastrucre .
We are getting worse season after season .

11 Dec 2017 10:48:19
Jred,

We don’t always agree but I’m with you on this one, overreactions to defeats are the norm on here though so no surprise. We lost to 2 scruffy goals whilst missing our best defender and best midfielder but the world has ended. Anyone who didn’t think we would lose once Pogba got sent off last week is kidding themselves.

11 Dec 2017 10:50:42
What kind of post is that Jred?

We've just lost the derby where we got totally our classed and more worrying out fought by our fiercest rivals. I think people are entitled to give their opinions about what went wrong?

Once we start accepting performances like y'day and that City are better, we lose our winning mentality, cutting edge and everything Fergi spent building for 25 years! We then become all those things you've just listed.

There is no bigger Utd fan than me, I love the Club, I love going to the matches, I love talking and debating about football. We all know it's not the end of the world but it hurts after a derby defeat especially when it almost certainly means that they'll win the title before Christmas and we didn't even make a tackle or make it hard for them!

For the record I'm a Jose fan, I still think we're going in the right direction and in Bailly, Pogba and Matic I think he's made some excellent signings. I'm bitterly disappointed about y'day because whilst City have improved immeasurably from last season Jose still feels the need to play ultra defensive football (in the big games) asking two CF's to play as auxiliary full backs!

I just feel 3 at the back suits the players in our squad at the moment, we get natural width with Young and Valencia and Martial can play higher up the pitch where he can run with the ball and terrify defences.

I didn't get the tactic's y'day, we were sitting ducks and played the entire game hoping they'd make a mistake rather than trying to create something ourselves.

It's the only game when I've felt let down by Jose defensive mentality and it's now obvious from
his results against the big 6 that it's simply not working and he needs a major re think!

This City side are far to good to play like that and we got exactly what we deserved!

11 Dec 2017 11:23:21
United are second only to a team that has had the best start to a season after 16 games ever in the English game and have just put together the longest winning streak in the history .
That's better than any team under fergy achieved, any team under Jose that great arsenal team them great Liverpool teams .
United where sat 6th this time last season and only 11 teams in the epl had scored less. This season only a record breaking city have scored more or have more points .
Yet we have a poor squad no plan etc? Doesn't say much about the other teams in the league behind us

That last time we won the league we had just beat city at this point of the season to give us 4 more points than we have now.

The year we won the treble we had 6 less points at this stage of the season .
And yet we have a poor squad no ambition no plan etc etc etc .

Maybe we are doing really well just not as good as 1 team that has raised the bar after 16 games higher than it's ever been before?

11 Dec 2017 11:26:42
Danny fergy got beat 6.1 by city, it happens .
It doesn't mean the club has no plan poor squad no ambition etc etc.

11 Dec 2017 11:40:18
Anyone who didn't think we would lose cause pogba got sent off last week is kidding themselves.
So gds2 are we a one man team now.
And we should all be happy cause city are the best team in the league.

11 Dec 2017 11:48:11
Jred - I agree with a lot of your posts pal. I know it's not the end of the world and I actually think we're still heading in the right direction. Maybe the final piece of the jigsaw is not being so ultra defensive in the big games. I actually think we've got a good team!

The manner of the defeat hurt maybe I'm still a bit emotional!

Anyway decent draw in the Champs League, by no means a gimme but certainly winnable so lots to look forward to!

11 Dec 2017 12:58:08
Leahy,

Not a one man team but city are bloody good this season and it would take our best team to beat them which we didn’t have, our best midfielder was missing and we have struggled against much worse teams than city without him this season.

11 Dec 2017 03:44:17
So apparently city and its staff and players were involved in a post match scuffle with lukaku was prominently involved in it according to Daniel Taylor from guardian and mourinho was hit on the head with a bottle.

If I were to make a guess I would say lukaku aimed for a city player and hit mourinho instead given his accuracy.

11 Dec 2017 04:57:50
It is utd not it's.

11 Dec 2017 05:19:58
haha good one CSM, no doubt it wasn't his fault either because the bottle was not given to him quickly enough or at the perfect speed!

11 Dec 2017 05:45:34
Beast he has been so bad in last 2 games, can't score for us but had a hand in both city goals and had ddg scrambling with a near brilliant own goal against arsenal. Everton really mugged us.

11 Dec 2017 09:17:38
Haha very good Common.

11 Dec 2017 09:44:16
José complaining about City players' lack of respect in their celebrations. He shouldn't be complaining. Him and the players should have been forced into the City changing room, and made to watch the celebrations, to remind them exactly what this game means.

11 Dec 2017 09:53:51
Agreed Stevie, however I feel the players wouldn't have wanted to play the way Jose made them play. Jose has no confidence in himself and his players. He tried this at Real Madrid, players didn't have none of it and played their own way.