Manchester United Banter Archive February 11 2014

11 Feb 2014 23:15:06
Anyone else a bit fearful that RVP will leave in the summer? Just can't get the thought out my head that he is not happy at United.

Possibly back to Arsenal?

What, after the way the Gooners "welcomed" him back to the Emeroids last season and after the way he celebrated scoring the winner against them this season?
He might want away, who knows. I seriously doubt it will be to the Arsenal.

I honestly believe Rvp will leave and I know people might think I'm mad I don't think it be a disaster Don't get me wrong he is a world class striker but he does go in and out of games where as other strikers cause trouble all game long now if we can get a top class replacement I wouldn't be to upset even though he is class

I don't think him and rooney are clicking. I saw a stat, where they passed the ball to each other 2 times in the stoke game and only 3 times in the fulham game.

Very very odd if you think about it given where they play on the pitch and the number of passes we had in both games. SOMETHING DEFINITELY NOT RIGHT THERE.

GCU,

You really think they are looking up at thinking oh I'm not passing to him?

The reason they are not passing to each other is because the tactic is to pass it to the wingers and get them to cross it, I thought that was pretty obvious. I am interested how many times they passed to evra and young?

Gcu
You have spent months saying we needed rvp and Rooney back as you had read a stat we hadn't lost when they both played

Ignore stats imo don't tell the whole story

I did tell you months ago from his national manager that rvp is not happy. He's unhappy at the way Moyes is playing the team, and he's unhappy with the way Rooney has been forgiven for his antics and not signing a contract etc.

RVP's body language is of an unhappy player. His head is somewhere else right now, and I honestly think he's regretting joining us at present. He had a fantastic first year, then lost the manager who he signed to play for and has seen nothing but dross since Moyes took over. I don't think he likes the manager's training methods, tactics or what he sees our future to be under Moyes.

GDS2

Two strikers who are suppose to be playing off each other and by their own admission play like 9 1/2, you would think they would find each other more than 3 times in 90 minutes when the other team had 11 behind the ball and retrenched to 25 yards of their goal line. Not exactly Yorke Cole stuff is it?

Jred

It is an observation and in the stoke game when Rooney had RVP down the middle open after a blunder by stoke he attempted a 50 yard chip instead of the pass. The body language of RVP was not great and neither was the look he gave Rooney.

I have not changed my mind for us to get out of this conundrum we need those two humming and playing well. Quite obvious one misses fergie and one does not :)

GB jock
Why wouldn't he go bk to them if he left . Still gets on with their manager . Just because the fans give him an hard time doesn't matter jack. To him or the fans. Fans are fickle as we see everyday on here! As soon as he went bk they would love him again but hopefully he stays with us.

11 Feb 2014 20:53:18
Tucker, I didn't say that there were 18 good crosses. The 18 "successful crosses" was the opta stat. I agree with you about our wingers, since Becks and Ronnie left we have not found a good one. Devildust, did Georgie Best always do what his manager told him, or Ronnie. They should not be being paid millions if they cannot react to what is in front of them and improvise and be creative without being spoon-fed!

11 Feb 2014 19:13:15
hi everybody. been following the site from many years. a fan of man utd. I come from the most beautiful island in the world: the Seychelles.
most people here follow man utd.
still shell shocked with the way things are going with the club.
i believe there is a problem of team spirit and I wonder if its the way Moyes has handled Rooney. last year Rooney was not at his best and the team propelled to another championship. this year Rooney is better but the team slumps.
another question I want to put to the posters out there, if Moyes is fired, which team will be his most likely destination (Real, Bayern, Paris St Germain, arsenal, Liverpool, Chelc or Westbrom?
if the latter is the most likely option, what does that say about the calibre of manager we have

Hi Ben,

the issue with the team isn't down to one aspect there are several factors at play for our terrible campaign so far.

The tactics, team morale, lack of quality, etc.

So I think it's an incredibly difficult question to answer about what specifically is going wrong.

As for Moyes, a lot depends on what happens between now and if he were sacked.

He is a good manager, there is no doubting that in my opinion, whether we're the right club for him is a different argument altogether.

Personally He's the sort of manager who would manage a champions league club but not a team you think would win it.

teams like Schalke (who did approach him last year), Newcastle, Sevilla, etc.

If he does get sacked, which at the moment I hope he doesn't, then I can see him taking 2 or so years away from the game and then returning to a big club who are struggling, like a Newcastle.

Funny.
I am from Germany, but my moms from Seychelles.
I just promoted our lovely country in Hamburg!

Agree with the notion about Moyes cuttend Stock in Regards to possible future employers.

Good post Moon.

11 Feb 2014 17:53:54
"Both performances (Chelsea and Norwich) were absolutely linked with the amount of players that were injured, ’ said Pellegrini. ‘We had five players less and we played with three players who were not 100 per cent – especially the strikers"

Pellegrini is definitely out of his debt and making excuses and should be sacked :)

With our luck they will have the whole lot back and ready to go and we will probably get a few more injuries.

What a silly and irrelevant post GCU. Nobody cares what any other manager is saying about their club the simple fact is all its been since August is excuse after excuse. Sir Alex was a bad loser but even he would come out and say when we hadnt played well plus we are in 7th position not 2nd or 3rd. We haven't finished lower than 3rd in over 20 years obviously the season isn't yet over but the signs do not look good. Moyes has come out and said today we need to keep doing the right things that tells me he is doing everything correct and simply we are not. All season we have struggled not just because fulham sat back and parked the bus its been a problem all season. Apart from maybe 5 times this season or little bit more we have consistently struggled to win matches I hate to admit it myself but any1 who's being honest will say its the truth

Although the OP is rife with sarcasm it is still a backhanded attempt by GCU to somehow validate Moyes as manager.

When are you going to face reality and admit the guy is completely out of his depth and is hopeless.

Damon86

You need to chill. Why is it silly, everyone was blasting DM for using injuries as making excuses.

I thought interesting to post what Pellegrini had to say as many here think he is a top manager. It about balance and objective view, which is what we are lacking at the moment. everyone seems to post every silly rumor they hear and no one seems to object to that.

How do you make those conclusions based on what he has said today and what did you actually expect him to say. He was referring to the fulham game and do you think fulham deserved a point?

It has been a tough year because we are in transition, we have had injuries, poor individual errors, some questionable decisions by the Manager, terrible luck and I mean that and most of all a squad that needs change and investment.

True to say that city have no end of good luck, you're not being charged another example, but I think you make your own luck

Not until I see what he does in the summer and where we are next January.

I can live with a bad season, all great sports franchises have them and we are no different.

I have asked you this before how old are you and who made you the expert on who is the right manager for United.

Do you have such an ego or blinded by a view to believe you are a better judge of what is right for United than those who have served the club most of their lives like SAF and SBC.

A new manager at a club our size needs time to show what he can do and only once he has failed, I will join in the moyes out group.

A new manager at a club our size should also have a track record of actually winning something or at least playing a decent brand of football none of which DM has.

Also believe it or not SAF is human and can occasionally get it wrong. The fact DM is Scottish had absolutely nothing to do with it of course.

You are for whatever reason obsessed with my age no doubt so you can put a snide remark to any number I give most likely that I have been spoiled with success(you like that 1). but regardless of my age its bit of a hypocritical for you to question someones age when you post Pelligrini should be sacked!

Devil Dust

Stop repeating what other say and have a view of your own. Liverpool is a big club and so is Juventus and look at where their managers came from.

Some the stuff is very naive.

Now I know, you are a young lad. Nothing wrong with being young and I wish I was 15 years younger LOL.

Sorry, Devil, but this urban myth being bandied about by people on here, that Fergie only picked Moyes because he was Scottish, is nonsense IMO.

Do you really think Fergie, who made the modern-day club what it is, and loves this club, would really be prepared to see all his hard work over the years crumble in front of him, just because he wanted a Scottish manager to succeed him?

If people really believe that rubbish, they're basically saying that all this time, Fergie didn't give two sh1ts about the club.

Ok GCU I have just one question for you. if we finish 7th this season would you not class that as failure? The problem is we are not playing well and not winning many games at the moment to go with it but a real big manager has the ability to get an average player playing well above his skill level. I think Moyes deserves time but if he shows no promise even after he's brought his own players in then all his excuses will have then run out. I want the guy to do well he just isn't convincing me at the moment and to go on about bad luck well that's not the reason we are 7th

Stevie

I wouldn't go so far as to say that was the only reason he was picked but I am convinced it played a role. The fact he had been with Everton and brought stability was another but after that I struggle to see the merits I the greatest manager of all time picking someone who has absolutely no hope in achieving that accolade or anything close to it.

GCU

You are wrong again with my age and I have no clue what I am meant to be repeating. Also Liverpool and Juve are not clubs who the recent stature of United and so could take a risk on young exciting managers, something I will add we have not done.

Finishing 7th is a terrible season for united. We will not wilt away and will have the funds to make the necessary investment to get back to where we want to be.

By all accounts every player Moyes has looked at or is interested in is a top player and you know the list of players we are interested in.

So let's say we realize he is not the guy in 18 months, whoever comes in will have a great young squad of world class players to work with.

I am sure we will spend money in the summer and buy top players and not freaking out about a bad season but disappointed just as anyone else.

I believe he will buy good players that is not what concerns me. I believe and it is just my opinion btw that no matter how strong our team/squad is he has not got what it takes to get the best out of them and that is what makes a great manager.

Cgu. I thought the original post was a bit silly. Moyes has been giving excuses about everything. I think you're flogging a dead horse.
One thing losing against Chelsea away, but not being able to beat fulham at home and conceding two goals is truly pathetic. Even the fulham cb said our tactics were like a conference side.

So one thing giving the manager support but when he happens to be totally out of his depth, its useless.

Good reply GCU. I think what most fans problem is there doesn't seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel as it looks asif fellaini and Mata were bought with no idea on how they would be used. On the fulham game it was so predictable even more so than ever before because the amount of times teams have come to OT down the years and parked the bus the majority of the time we have chipped away and eventually got the win but even when we took the lead you could feel that we could easily ship a goal the other end as we looked vulnerable. Yet again we lose with vidic in the team he's a shadow of his former self and I would not pick him promote Keane maybe what have we got to lose. Moyes needs to do something to show he's boss and create a bit of fear as it seems to me as if he's scared of the task ahead and being too nice

Fergie did what was best for him plenty of times like the rock of gibralta that brought the club into disrepute purely for being greedy this also led to the irish selling there shares to the glazers and the rest is history.i also don't believe fergie saying there was money to spend and praising the glazers, it was obvious to stevie wonder that our midfield was creaking yet he didn't do anything.he also bombed out one of the best centre halfs in the world in jaap stam for really nothing, and also waged a one man war against the tv that also reflected badly on the club.yes he brought us lots of success but he did a lot of things to suit him and not the club

Devil Dust

GCU makes it personal quite often, this time with comments about your age. He diagnosed me with something to try and discredit my opinion, then started referring to my age and being old basically because before this season I had been going a long time. So being old or young means you are not allowed to be of the opinion Moyes isn't up to the job. The OP seemed to be yet another rah rah Moyes isn't so bad after all and it is the opposite to the Moyes out posts that mostly go on the other page. I recall GCU was in Miami recently, home state of the owners and I wonder if he called in.
GCU mentioned Liverpool managers, well what did they do with Roy Hodgson when they realised he was not up to the job?

John, he was no saint, we know that, but we never said anything at the time, because of the success he brought the club.

Seems a bit churlish to turn on him now.

Despite his flaws, I still stand by my point that he would not risk either his, or the club's reputation, just so a Scottish manager could replace him. I think it's a conspiracy theory of the most ridiculous kind.

Just to explain it to me in simple language that I can understand, Nomidfield.

If using the absence of our two main strikers to injury for a fair portion of the season, along with various other injuries at certain points, as one of the reasons for our poor results, is seen as making excuses, then how do you describe Pellegrini's comments?

In all seriousness, I'm curious to know what the difference is.

Surely, an excuse is an excuse, no matter who says it.

There is a very good article by Kevin Garside in the Independant that is worth of a read and outlines some of the issues well.

StevieK

What position are City in and where are we?

I will say it again I don't care what other mqnagers say about their clubs its United who is my biggest concern same as most other fans. We have a wonderful club and its plummeted very fast. I didn't expect us to win the title but our squad is good enough to be in the top 4 without a doubt. Moyes said before the fulham game hopefully we can win come on be real is that fighting spirit - NO. Also he said yesterday our luck will change soon there's no doubt about that and what I will say is this I just hope he's saying different things in the dressing room because if he honestly believes that then he's deluded. At the end of the day the buck will always stop with the manager in football if those players are playing a certain way its down to the manager and coaches and if they are playing poorly its down to the manager to get them playing. I was thinking he could be here till Xmas but if we finish 7th this season or worse I will be very surprised he's here nxt season

Red Man

"What position are City in and where are we?

You are beyond help mate, if you need someone to point out the difference of the Man City squad without 2 or 3 players and our squad without RVP, Rooney and always a few other who take turns in being injured and not available.

I told you before you are a classic case :)

I read that article Red Man it was a very interesting read in which very few would disagree in what he's saying. We have been through injuries plenty of times before even worse than this and every united fan knows it. Did we not have Carrick and Fletcher as our CB's for a couple of games a few years ago yet still won the title we didn't make excuses then.

I think everybody wants Moyes to succeed more than anything but we are not being given the signs to feed on. He is showing us no inspiration in fact he looks in denial and deflated going on about luck will change etc and that is nonsense. I think the penny dropped for a lot of fans on Sunday as if enough was enough because at the end of the day we are all Manchester United fans and do not believe Moyes can drag us out of this position we are in or even offer us any signs of encouragement.

If Moyes can prove us all wrong we will all be delighted and as the majority on the site thinks the same then perhaps we cannot all be wrong. The fans up until now have been patient if you ask me but once all the fans turn against him then his time is up for me I sincerely hope he can turn it around and be a successful United manager but at the moment we can all agree it doesn't look very good in the slightest.

No excuses we should be doing much much better. 90% of fans would admit before the season 3rd or 4th and a trophy in the cabinet and it would of been a good start for him but nobody expected it to be this bad as if we had lost to Fulham we would of not been too short of losing half of our league games which is horrendous.

Anyway let's hope we can give a good account of ourselves tonight a win would be amazing for the fans

Totally ignoring, or missing my point, Red Man, by asking an unrelated question.

Classic deflection technique :)

11 Feb 2014 16:42:50
I have come to believe that Moyes is not the right man for the job, but, fair's fair, don't compare the situation he inherited at United to those faced by Guardiola, Ancelotti, Pellegrini and Mourinho.

Pep arguably walked into the best team in the world, for gawd's sake - a side that needed zero investment, although it had already acquired Goetze, and then they got Thiago as well. All the other teams have been buoyed by enormous investment in players, and most importantly, none of them have had a single dominating manager for 26 years whose rule dominated everything that happened, and whose persona had become synonymous with the club.

My sense that Moyes is not the right man for the job is based on a succession of decisions which seem wrong-headed, a lack of any perceivable shift in tactics or approach, and his general demeanour, which fails to convince. But that being said, out of the available managers who could/should we have got? Could any of them have coped with this situation? Laudrup? Give me a break - the guy's overrated. Martinez? Maybe. Klopp, great, but not available at the time etc etc.

After 8 years of reduced or poor investment, this moment is exactly what the Glazers deserve. We, as fans, on the other hand, do not - although perhaps a slice of humble pie will help us appreciate the good times when/if they come around again.

I think Mourinho could have been approached before Moyes and not many on here will go for this one but imo I think Rafa (yes the fat Spanish waiter) would have been an excellent choice.

I just think Moyes does not have the self-belief to do the Utd job, lacking conviction for me.

I wrote something similar earlier, Moyes was the best of the available, rather average, bunch

Mourinho was available.

What an absurd remark. Moyes was and remains a middle-table mediocrity. He did not meet the two criteria laid down by the board: namely, deep experience in Europe and a proven winner domestically.

He is simply a comical interlude in the march of progress.

GAGUS, I know the Ed's aren't all-knowing oracle's, but they seem pretty convinced he wasn't.

G.A.G.U.S, Ed002 has mentioned numerous times, Mourinho was never an option.

Recent examples of why, it's all about mourinho, me me me.

I believe Heyneckes would have been available in summer, the European coach of the year who had just led Bayern to the treble. Age isn't on his side but a sure hand for SAF to have passed on to. There would be a long list before you get to Moyes. We talk on here about how big our club is then let people suggest we couldn't attract a top manager, the issue is that it seems we decided not to

11 Feb 2014 15:26:26
He has had 2 transfer windows and 8 months. I've gone from defending him constantly, saying he needs time and will get it right to at the moment I suppose been on the fence.
I'm running out of excuses for him, it is not good enough that we still need a cm and a lb, and some of the football and tactics we are seeing are appalling. I've seen and heard nothing in these 8 months to convince me he is the man to take us forward. But at the same time, he was chosen rightly or wrongly and does now deserve some time to get it right.
Now its a case of how far are we willing to fall before we admit we made a mistake. I don't want us to turn into a club that sacks its manager every 8 months but we simply can't just let him drag us down much further.
My guess is he will be given the summer to get some new players and if we start next season badly he will be gone before christmas. Or better still he starts to turn it around and everything starts falling into place.
I'm hoping, starting with Arsenal on weds.

He inherited an ageing squad, some of whom had needed replacing before Moyes arrived. Last Summers transfer dealings were the responsibility of Woodward, not Moyes.
Players are always reluctant to move in January and I don't think Moyes should be blamed. This Summers dealings are crucial to next seasons success and we'll know, by Christmas, whether we are rebuilding well, until then I think we just have to be patient, supportive and loyal.

He inherited an aging squad then spent 70m and inherited a wonderkid and yet we are probably playing the worst football in the whole division.

That is all fair Paulo and I do agree to a certain extent, but I do believe despite all of that we should be getting better than what we are getting at the moment.
Time will tell and I hope he does turn the corner, I am fully behind him and want him to succeed. Just been honest when I also say I'm starting to get a little worried for the future.

11 Feb 2014 16:43:53
Ageing squad? Its a myth. Ferdinand was given an extension withMoyes blessing. Evra was poor last season but we still won the league. we have Evans Jones Smalling as cbs for the present and future. Carrick granted needs replacing but Moyes brought in his own man in Fellaini and has just recruited Mata. Januzaj has emerged also and we still have the most potent attacking talent in the league yet look impotent. Lpool have Toure and Gerrard and Everton Barry Jagielka Osman and Distin, plenty of ageing players but we are the ones using it time and again to excuse losses to the mighty stoke west brom etc and drawing with the bottom club?! We still have the players if managed and motivated correctly, maybe not for winning the league but certainly to challenge. are we really at the level fighting newcastle for 7th and not questioning the management and his own coaching staff?

The problem is are we prepared to let Moyes continue down this path, if we let him spend the money in next transfer window we are in for another 12 months of pain.
Already we are likely to be paying in the Europa league, when did any did team do any good playing in that Thursday Sunday?
He has already said he needs 4, 5 or six players, when was the last time anyone brought that many players in and clicked straight away, never!
It's ok saying we have to support Moyes, but I am telling you we will look back and think that was when we let the club be ruined, and it could take years to get back.
It took years to build this success and we are allowing it to be ruined, all the warning signs are there and have been there from the start and we are turning a blind eye and are willing to believe its just bad luck and injuries.

Moyes did inherit an ageing squad, and a rebuilding job was always on the cards. I, and others, don't think that we have played exceptionally well for a few years, and without RVP we probably wouldn't have won the league last year. It's also true that the top three teams in the country have improved this season.

But there is a huge difference between acknowledging that these next few seasons were going to be tough and seeing anything positive during Moyes's tenure. The big question is not about how many of our squad need to be replaced before we can turn it around. It's, can anyone honestly say that David Moyes is the right man to get Manchester United back on top?

If we all took a step back and just look at his time in charge, it's honestly very hard to pick out any positives. The most worrying thing is that I genuinely don't think Moyes believes he is doing anything wrong. Again today, he claimed that the team just have to "keep doing the right things." It's as if he really thinks that the only reason we are mid table is down to luck. Sooner or later people will have to accept that this is the way Moyes wants United to play: it isn't down to a lack of quality players, or injuries, or opposition tactics.

If people really believe that our current style of play will propel us to trophies, then Moyes is the man. If, however, people think we need a different approach, Moyes isn't going to provide it. It's that simple.

"He inherited an aging squad then spent 70m and inherited a wonderkid and yet we are probably playing the worst football in the whole division.

We have not been able to see what impact the money spent has as Mata has had 3 games and that is hardly enough and not sure where Fellaini is at with his injury but pretty sure he has not been available for selection since early November.

Danny

I agree we have not played great since 2011. I also agree the results os far is beyond anyone's imagination.

What if our current style of play is not even close to what we might play in 12 to 18 months time with a vastly different set of players.

Have you considered what impact the addition of 4 or 5 new players in the summer and some much needed housecleaning will have to the team, the style of football we play and results.

GCU,

I think the style of play should come from the manager's philosophy and not from the players brought in, I.e. you get the team playing the way you want them too and then bring in players that complement that style. If Moyes was committed to changing things up he would be trying to see if the players he had could adapt to the new system he wants to play with, like Rodgers has at Liverpool. It makes no sense to continue with a failing system if you want to get the team playing a different way in the future.

All the evidence points to the fact that Moyes wants to the team to play the way we have been playing: he hasn't changed it despite it clearly not working, he thinks the team is playing well, and he thinks they are doing the right things. He neither sounds or acts like a man who isn't setting the team up the way he thinks works best. I have no doubt that when he brings players in to suit his system that we will start playing a bit better, but I can't see us winning anything.

Danny

I think this team is so much a Fergie team it is very difficult to change it unless you change the personnel. I also think some of the stuff we are seeing during the game from Moyes is his frustration with them going back to what they know and feel comfortable with rather than what he wants them to do.

I might be completely wrong but we are better than this and getting the wrong rub of things. Once he has the opportunity to really put his mark on the team, he will need to demonstrate he can compete and beat his fellow managers at our rival clubs or he will not have a long career at United.

GCU,

If Moyes was committed to changing things up, this would be the perfect opportunity. We have nothing left to lose so he could try to use the rest of the season to alter the tactics and formation. He hasn't because I simply don't buy it for one second that the team isn't playing how he wants them to play.

What you're implying is actually more worrying. You're saying that Moyes has been at the club for 8 months and, not only has he failed to stamp his own identity on the team, but the players are actively ignoring his instructions.

Either Moyes has been unable to stamp his authority and identity on the squad, or we accept that Moyes has set the team up to get down the line and cross. I know which one I believe.

I am not implying players are ignoring him, I am saying we have played for so long in a certain way it is not as easy to change.

The pressure at a club like United will not allow for him to write the rest of the season off and try new stuff. If I were him I would try and get some form back with a run of decent results to end the year and get to the summer and start the changes.

He never played this system at Everton and it is not how he sets up his teams. I believe what we are seeing is the worse period of a transitioning a team. It is that period were we are in the middle of a little bit of the old and a little bit of the new stuff with an old squad and some of the players are struggling with it.

I know you might not agree but I am not going to change my mind when I say we have had a terrible run of things which is a combination of injuries, bad ref, terrible individual mistakes that has compounded our issues and we should not be where we are in the league.

That is why I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and feel sorry for the man.

Until he has had the opportunity to bring his own players in and bed in this style, I don't really have a view on him but believe what people are posting is way over the top and some of it completely disrespectful and rival fans must be loving reading this stuff.

Come on GCU, these are professional players who have played at the top level for most of their careers, they are competent enough to adapt their game if they are drilled properly for 8 months. In fact, a lot of our attacking players haven't even been at the club for that long: Kagawa, Mata, RVP, and Januzaj only joined the first team this year.

The fact of the matter is that Moyes started the season by reverting to a clear 4-4-2. Even SAF was trying to break from this last season with Kagawa and dropping Rooney deeper. Not once has Moyes tried to change his style of play or implement any new ideas. In truth, we have become much more concentrated in wing play under Moyes, and that statistics back this up. It's not a case that Moyes is fighting to change a particular style of play built up under SAF. He brought in his own backroom team and was given every opportunity to develop his playing style. Moyes is getting the team to play this way and has never once suggested that there is a problem with it, that it isn't what he has instructed them to do, or that he intends to try to play any differently in the future.

It's not about giving him the benefit of the doubt. It's not like he's only a couple of months into the job and these are teething problems. We are heading into the final stretch and he has not attempt to introduce one iota of tactical changes in all that time. There should be no doubt: David Moyes is drilling the team to play this way, and we know this because they play the same way week after week regardless of who their playing and who is in the starting eleven.

I'm sorry for Moyes too. He took on a job that is far too big for him and he is struggling in every single department. It's not disrespectful to say that he's out of his depth, he is and everyone can see it.

11 Feb 2014 14:27:38
I think its about time now that we put Rooney into mid field with carrick & a another (fletcher or Fellani when fit) and play Mata Januzi and RVP up top. He not be happy but it could be just until the summer when we get more decent players.

What is this obsession with putting Rooney in Midfield, it's bloody ridiculous.
Rooney is our best player, he needs to be playing in the correct position.
Why doesn't Moyes use his brain and play three midfielders.
Carrick, Fletcher and Fellaini.
Then play Mata wide left further forward, Janujaz on the opposite side and put Rooney central behind RVP.
We don't have to stick with the 442 formation.
All 4 players have to play.
You don't see Mourinho dropping his best players for a rest, or Pellagrini or Wenger, even Brenden Rogers.
Why did he rest Janujaz against Fulham was beyond me, the lad oozes quality and gave the team an immediate lift as soon as he come onto the pitch.

11 Feb 2014 16:11:58
Simmo
would love to see mata januzaj and rooney behind rvp but if u play 3 central midfielders that's a total of 7 so leaves a back 3 and de gea. not sure we have the defenders to play a bk 3

If he plays three in midfield how does he play mata, Januzaj, RVP and Rooney further forward?

Simmo,

Agree fully about Rooney not playing in centre midfield, he plays too deep when he is there and loses all of his goal threat. Not sure about playing 3 midfielders and 4 attackers though, are you thinking a back 3 of Smalling, Vidic and Jones? I guess it would take away from needing a left back. Not sure any top teams have ever won anything with 3 at the back and wingers instead of wing backs.

Also last season most people were having a go at Liverpool playing Sterling too much, he will be burned out by the time he is 25 like Owen, so we can't really complain about Moyes using Januzaj wisely. We can complain massively about him playing Ashley Young instead though, he will never be United class.

I think 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 depending on opposition. With our midfield being so poor I think there are times when we need to stick an extra body in there. Fletcher/cleverly with carrick and jones/fellaini. Mata, rooney behind rvp. And some games or during game we can always drop a midfielder for a more attacking januzaj/kagawa/young.

Simmo

Rooney is not our best player!
Tbh I still want him gone, but that's another debate for another time.

Sorry guys it was meant to say two central midfielders.

CTR

So who is then?
Who has performed better than Rooney this season?

Simmo, a good start to a season, doesn't make him our best player.

Simo januza has

GDS

"We can complain massively about him playing Ashley Young instead though, he will never be United class."

Agree mate. Problem is, while we would love to see Mata/Januzaj/Rooney behind RVP tomorrow night due to our failings against Fulham by relying solely on crossing, you just KNOW Young and/or Valencia will play against Arsenal.

Moyes will claim it's because they're experienced and usually play well against big teams, when in reality, it's because he cannot move away from traditional 4-4-2 football and wing-play.

Opinion welcome on this one?
DDG,
Rafa, Jones, Evans, Evra,
Fellaini Fletcher,
Mata,
Adnan, Rooney and RVP
In a 433/ 4123 formation with Mata in the hole looking to spread the play or release the runner with The 2 behind to clean up. Means also pushing high up the pitch though, so back four would need to clean up their act. Leaves the possibility of Rooney interchanging with Mata?

Red_Sky, whilst we would always love to see our more exciting, talented players on the pitch, I worry that with our weak midfield and defence, that they're going to have to be sacrificed for the bigger work ethics of the two you mention, when it comes to defensive responsibilities.

I fear Arsenal would rip us apart without our wide men being prepared to put in a defensive shift too.

But then, as I've been told on here, my tactical knowledge is non-existent, so take my childish analysis with a pinch of salt. I'm just fumbling in the dark here :)

11 Feb 2014 13:49:09
So Rio has been left out of the team that will travel to Dubai for warm weather training, apparently he is set to retire. I would like to see him involved in the club somehow but I think he is pretty dissilusioned with it and with Moyes at the moment. The other thing is that Wenger has come out and said that he won't comment on RVP wanting to go back to Arsenal. If he leaves I will be so angry, for me Moyes should go before anyone like RVP is sold. Most of the players seem very unhappy and have no faith in Moyes - there has to be a point where the line us drawn by the board.

Fresh,

I think you are reading way too much into what the press are making up and nothing to do with what Rio has actually said himself. Every time I have seen him speak he has been very professional and not said a bad word about Moyes. I am not interested in how the press spin Twitter comments to mean different things either.

I have not heard one bad word from any top player who is playing every week about the manager, so where are you getting that 'most of the players seem very unhappy and have no faith in Moyes'? I would expect they are unhappy, they want the team to do well, I'm not happy either.

Fresh, mate, I have never seen anyone on here get themselves into such a tizz over every newspaper rumour going :)

11 Feb 2014 11:53:26
I was all for giving Moyes time. I understood that it would take time for him to put his stamp and authority on the team ( it's only been 8 months) and with the debacle that was the summer transfer window, it was always going to make it that much harder. However, he has a title winning team, and even when you allow for the fact that several players of that team were on their last legs (Evra, Rio. ) it still does not account for the frightening drop in quality, confidence and league position.

If you look back to last year and the appointment of BR at Liverpool, you may have sneaked a little peak on their page in the name of entertainment. He's head was been called for, by October. But to be fair, there was a significant percentage of them defending him to the hilt and calling for, the ever so rare commodity in today's footballing environment, time.

Which brings us to the current dividing line of those who want to see Moyes sacked and those who want him to have a fair chance to succeed:Time.

And herein lies the difference between BR and DM when we draw parallels. BR offered a light at the end of the tunnel. The team were evolving their play for the better. Dm has devolved us! Time shouldn't be offered for free, it should at least cost you hope, and sadly I have yet to see a smidgen of it from this man at the Helm.

And I hope I'm wrong.

Maybe when DM has the players' he wants to execute his style of play on the pitch - can we truly judge him fairly.

Thanks for letting that through Ed. I was sure I was signed in.

SamTheRed

Moyes is unfortunate when it comes to getting players that suit his style of play.

Kenwyne Jones has just moved, Andy Carroll is either injured or banned this season and Peter Crouch seems happy at Stoke :)

11 Feb 2014 10:42:58
Why are people so surprised with players taking a dig at Moyes? He's having bad results, failed to push the team to a top 4 position and is making a lot of people unhappy.

It's completely normal that the squad players say such things. They're unhappy with themselves, and blame Moyes. None of the truly important players has said anything bad about Moyes ( Rooney Van Persie, Carrick, De Gea, Rafael, Evans. ).

It was different under Saf because he installed the fear of god in the team. Moyes does not have the pedigree nor the current quality to do so.

11 Feb 2014 10:16:12
Football, bloody hell.
Haven't posted in a while as I think most things have been said by posters but going to use this time for a bit of therapy!

My preferred option for the job was Guardiola and then Mourinho but I understood why we went with Moyes and on reflection (at the time) felt Moyes was the best man to make a smooth (as smooth as it could be) transition from the Fergie era and he would offer us longevity which should bring stability.

My concern now though is that we have lost our identity in 6 months. Under Fergie we attacked with freedom and players were encouraged to express themselves and when we defended there was a solid structure but this season it seems to be the opposite, defenders look like they have been told to express themselves and pass out the back and attacking is very structured, get the ball, pass out wide and cross!

Under Fergie we could get the ball out wide, we could go route one, we could pick teams off, we would shoot from distance and defensively if row z was required, row z is where it went, I don't believe Vidic would try a cushioned header to Carrick in the 94th minute when we were 2-1 up under Fergie, he'd be looking for height distance and width, but we're not seeing that this season. I feel Moyes was let down in the transfer window during the summer and I don't believe the comments that Fergie left a sinking ship. If you look at his final purchases, with the exception of RVP, he signed De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Kagawa, Zaha, he gave Januzaj a squad number, he managed Welbeck and Evans well to become a decent squad members, along with RVP and Rooney. What I believe Fergie felt though was it would be unfair for him to make signings in the areas we know needed strengthening if Fergie himself couldn't take the team forward for 4/5 years like he has always done with teams he has built but he has laid a good young foundation and given Moyes the opportunity to choose the players he wanted to make up the team so has his own stamp on it but somewhere or someone down the line has seriously let Moyes and the club down. I also don't believe Fergie would want to see the club he has built up, fall unnecessarily into mid table mediocrity. I do appreciate though I still may have my Fergie tinted glasses on but I just can't believe this is what he felt.

I don't believe we will go on to do a Liverpool as the structure of the club should prevent this and as the Ed's have said, Champions League shouldn't necessarily be a reason for players to join us however I'd imagine they would want to see a ''project'' if you like where we will be back challenging next season, hopefully the signing of Mata is a signal of this.

I will support Moyes as long as he is in charge but he is making it very difficult to back him at the moment but for the older fans, we have experienced this before, it's just tough to swallow after a fantastic 2 decades. I think we need a LB, 2 CB's and 2 CM's in the summer. Who these could be, I have no clue now? Realistically? Coentrao, Mangala, Garay and then 2 of Strootman, Gundogan or Carvalho? Will we sign 5 in the summer? Who knows?

Noname, I really wished you'd logged in, so I could congratulate you personally, on a sensible, reasoned and fair post.

11 Feb 2014 09:03:53
Hospital pass.
This is what sir alex gave to his mate david when he decided he didn't have enough quality in depth in the squad or the energy to rebuild another great united team himself.
Based on sir alex's signings towards the end of his career i'm not convinced he would have got the signings right but we'd certainly been playing better football.
If sir alex had remained rooney wouldn't be a united player, but we'd probably had more from van persie.
We've got to face up to that despite how bad it is right now uniteds board will not swing the axe and sack david. He will be backed until the summer and funds are available for significant investment in the playing staff. We all know several players are moving on, vidic, ryan, rio, evra, lindergard, anderson, nani. Some players will be looked at moving on by the club, young, buttner, cleverly, bebe, macheda. Others who the club may want to retain rooney, van persie, zaha, hernandez may all try to force moves out of the club.
Any club would struggle with this much upheaval but united might deal with it better than most.
For me the following has to happen starting from today.
1, confirm the players leaving at the end of the season.
2, annouce rooney has signed new contract and is new club captain with jones as vice captain
3, intergrate some more of the younger squad with the first team and give the players best placed the chance to perform. There are several of the under 21 squad with a real chance of making the grade. It worked 20 years ago?
4, annouce a signing or 2. Blaise matuidi and garay maybe a good place to start.
I am a life long supporter of the club and am hurting at what we are going through. We must stand by our club and back the decisions made. In the long term the club will get it right but sir alex knew when he made his decision to walk away that he'd be giving someone a hospital pass. Anyone coming in would have struggled following sir alex. Maybe david is dealing with it as well as anyone else would have but i'm sure we'd have seen a greater turn around of players already if a jose, pep or kloop had been chosen.
Thanks for reading and thanks to the eds for maintaining this site.
Me personally for now i'd stick with moyes, bring in another experianced coach maybe carlos querioz, sign matuidi, garay, go all out for shaw and one from sandro or rodriguez. Bring in veltman from ajax and benatia from roma. In midfield we need a squad of 6. Fellaini, carrick, powell will cover 3, add matuidi, hopfully vidal and 1 more from kroos, herrera or gundogan. Need some width and pace reus ideal, griezman and lucas moura also good options. If van persie wants out then cavani for me to replace him.

11 Feb 2014 08:51:22
Following on from a previous thread that unfortunately ended up in a personal mud-slinging match (understandable as frustration levels grow) let me add the following:

I watched the entire game against Fulham a second time, as torturous as it was. There must have been close to a dozen times that Rafael, Evra and Young had the opportunity to play a square ball to the likes of Rooney and Mata (who were in acres of space) rather than a hit-and-hope cross.

This begs the question as to whether they were under absolute strict orders to cross no matter what, or whether they themselves were culpable of simply not showing any inventiveness.

If the latter, then did Moyes pick up on this? Did he at least try rectify it by pointing it out to the players?

Am interested in what you guys think.

I agree, players are being told to play this way and its not working and they are unhappy with it as the body language of so many shows. The players that we have are good players, some great players so would have the intelligence to try something different after 60 crosses failed. So it can only be from on instruction can't it.
I am totally torn with Moyes at the moment. Many people pre warned me when he was appointed that he would turn us into a mediocre team with playing style and tactics. My response was "he wont, he can't we are to big for him to drag down" but I being made to eat humble pie at the moment a like so many UTD fans struggling to defend what is happening. When I say Moyes, I also include Steve Round and Phil Neville to, neither are as tactically good as Rene or Carlos Quiroz were and its showing big time.
Everyone says "when we get players in etc etc" but the players we have got now are a darn sight better than what they are being made to look now.

I agree we needed to mix it up a bit and try something different than passing out wide and sticking it hopefully in the box. Just mix it up to keep them guessing. I know it was difficult because of the way fulham set up but we should have had more about us.
Its not just down to moyes though, its the individual quality. I've not watched it again but remember a few times mata pulling off and being in acres of space but not getting the ball. No matter what tactics the manager is pushing, if a player is in space but not passed to then that is down to the player with the ball, nobody else.

11 Feb 2014 12:07:15
I agree we needed to try something different. Mix it up a bit and keep them guessing. I know it was difficult the way fulham set up but we should have had more about us. And let's not forget they scored 2 goals. Whilst we are struggling to open the worst teams up, any team is creating chances against us simply by running through the middle.
Its not just moyes to blame for the fulham performance though, whilst his tactics obviously are pass it wide then stick it hopefully in the box, if a player pulls back and is in space on the edge of the box like mata often was then its up to the player with the ball to pick him out. that's not tactics just lack of individual quality

Resol, I apologise for that, mate. I said at the time, I thought your post was a fair analysis.

11 Feb 2014 00:14:39
I really think the writing could be on the wall for dm here. Players discontent with comments from rio, anderson, zaha and now hernandez going about in the media. It is becoming evident that dm has lost the dressing room or that the players have no faith in his style or him as a manager at a big club it all seems very similar to the case of avb at chelsea and we know how that ended. I want to make this clear I do not hate moyes as I have said he is a decent manager and a good man but he is not top notch and good enough for the biggest club in the world. To be fair questions should be asked about the recruiting of fergies replacement as factors like winning trophies and managing a big club should have been taken into consideration. I think if we continue with moyes and as I predict things don't change the fans will turn on him and get nasty and I do no wish that on him. I think the top 4 is gone now and even if we got there it would only paper over the cracks. If I could see light at the end of the tunnel I would stick with moyes but I just do not think he is the right man to coach utd as it takes some 1 special and there are probably no more than 5 in world football capable at the minute. My hope would be klopp who would take hummels and gundagon with hima and get kagawa back to his best. Who do the rest of you believe should be our next coach?

Klopp would be one of my choices

John, let's be realistic.

Manchester United is a big job, and the managerial position is one that many coaches dream of.

Unfortunately, the squad was found lacking, and most top class managers would have wanted financial backing from the owners, who had proven by the time they were looking for a new manager that they didn't seem too willing to do ( with the newest additions, and the targets we were after under Moyes, that proved to be untrue ).

3 managers stand head and shoulders above others.

Guardiola, who despite his accolades, has yet to manage a team that is not one of the best in history.

Mourinho, the best manager in the world imo, has lots of baggage and Ed002 appears to think he was not interested in the job and preferred Chelsea.

And Klopp who seems like he wants to stay at Dortmund for the time being.

Conte is an option, but I would honestly rather have Moyes ( Everton's Moyes, not the current one ). Juventus are a very defensive minded bunch, and that was never going to go well with the United faithfuls, exactly like what's going on with Moyes. Diego Simeone, despite his obvious managerial talent, has only started shining this season. Brendan Rodgers is managing Liverpool, and Martinez was not as popular as he is now.

Hiddnik, Biesla, Cappello and co are all too old to be long term managers, but they would have made the next manager's task a bit easier.

For now Moyes is a decent bet. He was supposed to come, build a solid team, keep us in the champions league, and get found out in Europe tactically once he manages to build it. That would give his replacement an easier task, but if we keep going the way we are and fail to get in the champions league in the next couple of years, I smell trouble.

In the coming years I fully expect Moyes to be replaced ( unless he somehow manages to make a Munich/ Barcelona/ Madrid out of us ) and be replaced with a more talented manager. By that time Giggs and Neville would have gotten into management, Blanc would have proven himself at one of the European giants, we'd see what OGS is capable of, and more top class managers would have become available. Klopp is certainly one of them, so is Pochettino.