Manchester United Banter Archive January 11 2014

 

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11 Jan 2014 23:21:08
Kagawa when playing in his position he is one to watch when you got player like valencia and adan tracking back he can stay up there he would more of a liability if seen the chance where he was unlucky in that 10 role with 10 to 15 game run I think will see the Kagawa of Dortmund if rooney goes I would give the lad a chance there when they switched adan and Kagawa he got one assist not bad for 45 minutes playing in the right position but I do think via de gea, rafeal carrick and fetcher I think there is a possibly of the rest and subs may not be at utd next season

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11 Jan 2014 22:41:28
I know it's been commented on already, but how good was it to see Fletcher in the middle of the park today?

I know he's always been seen as a bit of a spoiler, leading to those comments from Wenger years ago, and he might well have to carry out that sort of role against the Chelsea's and the City's, but, and without wanting to have a go at Cleverley, he's showed more attacking inclination in a handful of games, than Tom has in a couple of seasons. Always looking to shield the ball first, then get moving forward, rather than Cleverley's constant, back to goal, shuttling back and forward across the pitch

Is my memory going, or is this a much more rounded midfielder that's returned after his illness, rather than the alleged 'anti-football' player from a few seasons ago?

If so, and if he continues to strengthen up and progress, he could well be the answer in our midfield, at least until we can try and get in some top quality players in the summer. Would save us having to buy a lesser-quality midfielder in January, just to tide us over.

And who would have thought that would have been a likely scenario when he was being all but consigned to the rubbish bin after his illness really took hold?

Welcome back, lad.

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I agree. We've missed him just like we did in that European Cup Final against Barcelona after he'd been harshly suspended. He's a United man through and through, and he has a leader's mentality . Great to see him back.

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Steviek. As I posted earlier, he was like a breath of fresh air. Passed well and commanded his position. I am amazed he's come back in this excellent condition.

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Fletcher is a warrior

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I don't think anyone was expecting that from Fletcher tbh. He was always a hard working player, very mobile and covers every blade of grass.

Now he seems more of a cultured, technically efficient midfielder. His passing has improved, and so has his technique. He's obviously been working on the technical side of the game when hi body failed to keep up with the physical one.

It's really touching to witness such dedication

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Stevie

Agree completely, although let's onto forget that Fletch and Carrick struggled to get a touch in the 1st half.

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To be fair, AJH, Swansea could pass it around all day, but as long as they're as toothless as they were yesterday, I don't mind.

These possession stats bug me. Like someone said yesterday, we had lots more possession against Everton and Newcastle, and look what happened.

Possession without doing anything positive with it, is meaningless.

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11 Jan 2014 22:13:34
Anyone know how long Rooney will be out for and will he be back for the Chelsea game

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Expected back for the 19th Jan (Chelsea game)

I would expect him to be on the bench and be unused just to play some mind games with Mourinho but obviously should an injury come to Welbeck then we may well see him starting over Hernandez even with his great record against them

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Radio said he was in Egypt getting treatment. Sounds a bit strange to me but then again he wasn't at the match and rvp was

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Radio said? That's what moyes told everyone in his press conference. He's warm weather training in Egypt with the fitness coach.

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Egypt is not warm at this time of the year unless he has gone to Sharm al Sheikh which is still coldish.

Very odd if you ask me and not sure what that would achieve compared to being at the club with all the medical technology and people around.

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Gds
Been at work pal no tv but a radio?
Is that ok

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11 Jan 2014 21:53:50
Today proved a couple of things. Firstly some people have no patience. Football games last for 90 minutes not 45. Secondly some people on here don't have a clue about football or what their talking about.

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11 Jan 2014 21:48:09
Huge shoutout to Darren Fletcher today! What a inspiration, managing to recover from ulcerative colitis to then fitting straight into our midfield and IMO saving us for the next few months of the season. He made the best midfielder performance this season in a United shirt.

But this shouldn't be a reason to not buy new midfielders as it's obvious the quality is still not there. Hoping for some magic in the next week in the transfer window.

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Fletch was quality, Weggy.

Unfortunately, no CM will be signing this window. And yes, that's a problem as we still lack world-class players there.

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11 Jan 2014 21:34:13
A relatively unfit midfielder coming back after 2 years gets in before Tom Cleverly in the starting XI, and it results in a victory.
Moving on, great second half, Kagawa, Janujaz and Wellbeck were doing those lil position swaps and a lot of movement off the ball which is good to see.
Lastly, Welcome back Darren Fletcher, you have been missed!

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11 Jan 2014 20:58:47
Just watched athletico v barca. And having watched koke a lot due to our interest in him, he really does not impress a lot. He goes missing a lot of the game. I'm sure he has a lot of followers, and he's still very young. But what are peoples views on him?

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Good player but not the finished article yet. Would prefer Gundogan, but if there is any chance of getting Vidal the club should back Moyes by doing everything possible to get him. In my opinion he is the best of the lot. Realistically I can't see any of them being sold in this window. Hope I am wrong though.

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Please note this is one game against the best midfield in the world.

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Atletico had about 30% of the ball. Not much to be done tbh, especially against such a magnificent midfield.

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11 Jan 2014 20:40:13
I really enjoy coming onto this site after a win, if where not 2-0 up at half time, some fans are very quick to whinge and moan and by the end of the game sit there and say how lucky we are and that we didn't play anyone special.
Today we won, wasn't a vintage first half performance, but in the end we got the win and at times looked very assured.
I have to say, that the commentating was shocking today, really anti-United, almost as if they where loving our demise. At times I didn't know if United where playing bad or Swansea where unplayable. They where quick to big up Swansea's play, but they soon went quiet when United started winning, and really should have won by 3 or 4, only to get "Are United going to regret those misses? or The fans are quite nervous" with the camera showing 5 or 6 people laughing.
Also guys, certain stats mean jack all! Possession is only important if your using the ball effectively, not passing the ball five yards constantly. If that was the case Cleverly's ball retention would make him a £50-60 million player.

aaallj5

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We'll said, agree completely

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*well*

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If only some of our supporters were so quick to come on and give us their words of wisdom after a win, as they are when we lose.

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If you look below, I certainly did.

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StevieK

Its because we are expected to beat Swansea at home, therefore, when they beat us at OT people are fuming and rightly so.

2nd half was a great effort, very pleased with that and the 3pts. But it shouldn't be used as a benchmark, we're United, we SHOULD be beating these teams at home. When THEY beat us, we have a right to be bemused by it.

The high points this season, Arsenal aside, have all been against bottom-tier teams so it's natural that fans will take offense when these teams, or bigger teams, make us look average.

Januzaj was fantastic today, but how long can we depend on an 18yr old kid especially one who get hacked at by lumberjacks on a weekly basis?

We still need quality investment, this result changes nothing on that front.

If we get a result (and I mean a draw, even) at Chelsea, I'll be stoked. That'd be a nice base to start a run, get the big hitters back and we can seriously start charging for the top 4.

I just refuse to mess my pants over victories over small teams like Hull, West Ham, Villa, Norwich, Palace and Swansea. It's the crucial games against the bigger teams that matter.

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It was noticed! Kudos to you, NM

Though you were very conspicuous in your isolation :)

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I really does have to do with people focusing on the negative and just low degrees of maturity to handle setbacks.

I am looking forward to seeing the changes over the next 2 years and believe we will be better for it.

It is interesting how quite it is when we win :)

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RedSky, that's fair enough, but there's something unsettling about the speed that some on here line up to give us their wisdom when we lose.

It does look sometimes like bad results suit their views and agendas more than a victory does.

A simple, 'well done today, lads', isn't difficult to post.

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SteveieK

That is exactly why I call many of the posts fear mongering. There is a huge drop in posts after a win and they all show up right after a bad result.

There is Zero degrees of objectivity in their posts and hence I really enjoy exposing them for what they are. The old guy in the corner of the pub drunk and talking to himself:)

I just hope they can take the disappointment if we get a result at chelsea and that might mean they would have to crawl back under the sofa for a while LOL.

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11 Jan 2014 20:47:23
Still want moyes gone but today was an improvement (esp in the second half)! Add jones ( this won't go down well but at the expense of carrick, he was always slow but now he is geriatric! ) Rooney in place of well beck and stick with janujaz left, kags centre and anto v right and we may still make the top 4!

Add to this a quality midfielder (vidal, gundogan or someone of this standard )a top (or young and promising )left back moyes may even turn the tide! (And yes I do hope he does )

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My sentiments exactly, tough game against chelski so will be interesting to see how moyes sets up the team, I don't think he can get away with too defensive a set up given the recent attention he's received in the press

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Moyes isn't going, move on

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Yep. When we win the other team was very bad and we did not do anything special and when we lose even though the other team had a total of 2 shots they were great and we were rubbish :) I guess if you are looking for flaws nothing is ever going to eb good enough.

Anybody watch chelsea or spurs today, same score lines but I can assure you their was flattering and ours should have been a lot better score.

I do agree with the TV pundit thing. I get andy grey, David Platt and Richard keys and don't know who they like but they sure don't like us and love it when we have a bad result and quite biased.

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GCU

Come on mate, Swansea are far from a top side. that's why the venting happened after the FA Cup loss, we SHOULD be beating these teams.

No time to build momentum though, as we next face a top 8 side who are currently top of the pack. And our record against top, top sides is shocking so if we win, I'd be gobsmacked and full of praise even if its a scrappy 1-0.

Right now, I'd take a draw there, without a doubt.

Good second half though, far more free-flowing and exciting. Januzaj is a real gem.

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RED-SKY

I did not say they were a top side but that they are no pushover and give everyone a game. Their ball retention is quite good and hence they can be quite frustrating to play against.


I think we will see a different picture to the league table come early february and people might just calm down.


Looking ahead not sure what we will get in the Chelsea game but think it will be very close if we get some players back. They are not that good and more about individual(hazard) moments of brilliance.

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11 Jan 2014 20:30:12
Well surprise surprise. Put a young left footed genius on the left wing.put our most creative player at number 10 position and magic happens. But even just as important as this was a team sheet with NO Cleverley. What a difference. I know its only Swansea, and yes we will have to play twice as good as that to get anything at CFC but its a start.

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11 Jan 2014 19:49:57
Ed do we have any definite interest in Gundogan? You mentioned Vidal but would it be one or the other?

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{Ed004's Note - I reckon neither}

11 Jan 2014 19:39:50
With a bit of luck/better finishing that could/should have been 5-0.

Keeping a bit of perspective, this was a win against a side scarcely above the relegation zone (with an overrated manager if you ask me) - it might, however, help to add a little more confidence for the rather more formidable match at Chelsea next weekend. That will be a better test of whether this team even at its best can make it into the top 4 this year.

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Same side that lost at the bridge 1-0 an d actually gave chelsea very little that day and could have snuck a draw.

e all need to celebrate wins a little more as there is no shortage of misery when we lose:)

I hope we have RVP and Rooney back for next week. They will make a huge difference. Not sure of what to make of their injuries and keeping fingers crossed.

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GCU

I agree, we should feel good about that 3pts, we just need to prove we're still legit by making sure we continue putting inferior teams to the sword at OT.

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11 Jan 2014 19:33:10
That is how fans support a team. Kudos to the fans at old trafford tonight!

Can't wait to see jones, rooney and evp back!

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SAF asked us all to get behind him and be patient and the majority have which is great to see and hear.
Wouldn't happen at most clubs after such an awful 1st 6 months.

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11 Jan 2014 19:32:42
Because GCU requested it here is my objective review of the Manchester United versus Swansea game.

Today, January 11th 2014, at 17.30 Manchester United played a competitive game of English Premier League football against Swansea. Manchester United ended the game victorious, winning by a final score of two goals to nil. Antonio Valencia and Danny Welbeck scored the goals for Manchester United. Manchester United remain in 7th place in the English Premier League.

_________________
That's about I can muster for objective analysis, I'm afraid that anything else would end up being a subjective interpretation of the facts.

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LOL, Well done you are being a good boy now and behaving yourself. You might want to brig yourself to celebrate a little bit, we won and hammered them in the second half.

Great Crowd and fans like no other club.

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Come on Danny, the 2nd half was pretty good. Are you seeing what you want to see now?

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Of course the second half was better, we had an actual shape and looked like we had a game plan. I'm not so convinced that we have good enough players that to cede that much possession against better attacking sides, but the counter attacking play today looked far more threatening than the keep ball of the last few matches. We had a good win and a good second half performance without our two best players, and this season that's a great day all round.

Nonetheless, GCU wanted an objective analysis, and being objective means that you present the facts stripped of all subjective interpretation. Basically there isn't a whole lot you can say about a football match if you want to be objective about it.

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Off course you can give a view and I can disagree if I believe it is based on an opinion rather than fact :)

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11 Jan 2014 19:29:42
Excellent second half performance. Januzaj was incredible. But darren fletcher was immense for us. He was cool and composed. Kagawa much better once moved in middle. He is not a winger
Only slight negative is carrick's form. He was not up with the play but hopefully will improve as he gets fitter.
Chelsea will be a big test.

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I never thought I would say it again after his illness, but our midfield looks so much better with Fletcher instead of Cleverley. He is by no means the answer long term, but he could be a very important for us this year if we are again unsuccesful in this transfer window.

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Saw his interview after the game. said he is still not there in terms of stamina, strength so hopefully we will see even a much stronger player going forward. He was great today and made a big difference in the second half.

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Carrick should start to improve the more games he has, he usually does. We need him to be a lot better next week.
Yes great to see fletcher back and playing well, if he gets back to his pre illness consistency what an addition he could be for us.
Januzaj what a player.
A little more confident for the Chelsea game now but will be reallyvtough.

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I agree that we look much better with Darren Fletcher in midfield than we do with Cleverley. How this man has come back is nothing short of miraculous. He also hopes to give us more as his stamina improves!. Great stuff from Darren.
As for Januzaj - he is going to be some player by the time he is 25 or so ans learned all the tricks of the trade. I hope he will cement his position as our No. 10 for the next decade or more. I would be more than happy with a front four of Kagawa, Januzaj and Valencia playing just behind Rooney. The four could interchange at will and create havoc for any marking system in the EPL!

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Fletcher has been an amazing addition to our squad, a player we all thought he had finished playing as a top class professional but wow what an achievement.

Add in the more fluid 3 behind the striker we saw in the second half then things are starting to look good for us.

A few new faces in and a couple out this Jan would be perfect.

Great win

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11 Jan 2014 19:24:47
Good confident display in the 2nd half. Januzaj and Fletcher were great. Awesome to see fletcher getting a full 90 on the pitch.

Few areas we could still improve on but good none the less to get the result.

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11 Jan 2014 19:16:17
I know Januzaj has been brilliant but its good to have Fletcher back he's made a real difference

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Would you look at that, Kagawa moved to hole, Januzaj to the left, Valencia and Rafael partnership and we play better. Fletcher was very good in the second half when he was given license to get forward more.

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They were in they're better positions the second half and we looked a lot better. great to have rafael back aswell. I don't know about new signings I would be happy to have a full squad at the minute. we would stand a good chance at top 4 or higher if everybody was fit. However we obviously need new signings to get back to being champions!

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11 Jan 2014 18:49:41
Now, let's build on this 2 goals difference. Better 2nd half so far.

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Hard to build when players miss from 4 yards out with an open goal. Just want a clean sheet as it would do the team good.

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11 Jan 2014 19:57:04
Good win today over Swansea, should give some breathing room for Moyes.

The back four was steady enough. Looking forward, Rafael is solid at RB, we all know we need a left back. Evra should move on this summer, as well as Buttner, who again did not look good enough. Hope we can get Sandro or Coentrao.

Back four:
If Vidic and Rio do not return, we have Jones, Evans, and Smalling. At present, which two do you all think is the best pairing?
I would love for us to get one of Mangala, Zouma, or Garay, in that order.

Center mids:
Carrick and Fletcher were steady at CM, Carrick a little erratic today, but it was nice to see Fletcher play such a simple and intelligent game today. Going forward, I know Fellaini will stay, and hopefully improve, and I really hope Cleverly will be sold, as well as Anderson. Cleverly does not have the strength defensively nor the confidence on the ball offensively.
Prospects depend on availability and our willingness to pay. Vidal, Gundogan, Herrera, Fernando, Teixeira, and others are possible. We need two, hopefully can get one now in January.

Wingers:
Januzaj had a strong game today, and seems to be growing in confidence. You can see even more of what he offers: dribbling at players, penetrating passes, quick release to start a few breaks, movement, and set piece delivery.
Valencia should stay, despite his limitations. He works hard, and dominates his man physically. Hopefully, Nani and Young will be sold.

Kagawa showed again today that he does not look like he will succeed at Man Utd. He has no shot and no heart defensively, and where he is supposed to excel, with his touch and creativity around the box, he simply did not cut it again today.
Hernandez also looked limited again. It's a shame because I love his attitude, but maybe his time is soon up at Man Utd.

Welbeck is Man Utd, a hardworking local boy, sure he is erratic, but he will remain in the picture.
Van Persie's future seems uncertain, with him looking very injury prone again. And I must say it is quite unfair to blame his injury on Moyes.
Rooney has played well this year, but his future also seems uncertain. If one of them goes, maybe a true #10 will be on the horizon.

One last observation from today, sometimes just one player back in the lineup makes all the difference. For example, Valencia always plays better with Rafael behind him, adding another real ballplayer down the flank, unlike Smalling. Fletcher also made the middle look steady, unlike Cleverly.

Sorry for the long post, here is hoping for some good news soon in the market.

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I agree fletcher was great and love his confidence of holding on to the ball and looking to play a positive pass and took a lot pod pressure of the CB. Rafael and Valencia down the right and Janusaj and Evra down the left were very good in the second half.

I still will take Rooney at no10 and RVP upfront though.

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I think Kagawas biggest problem was his touch, for someone of his technical ability I think a few games in that no.10 role and he will really improve, he was in the right position a few times he just needs the confidence.
if rvp is out for another 6weeks play januzaj on left, valencia on right, kagawa in the middle and rooney up front, put that in front of fletcher and jones and I think we've got a good shot against chelsea

dags

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Dags

Kagawa's issue is he is very light defensively and if anything not the most committed when it comes to a tackle and sometimes quite lazy on the defensive side of the ball.

Unless he is having a great game on the attacking side of the ball, I can see why he is left out by the manager. I also think an open type of game like today after we had scored suits him more than when it is tightly packed and a level game.

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To be fair GCU, it is not really a number 10's job to be tracking back all the time, but we have become so used to rooney doing it we demand it from everyone else.
i would rather have kagawa further up field just in front of the defence because he is one of the few players who can pick out those passes for the likes of chicarito and welbeck to run onto, also it may force the oppositions midfield to stay back a little meaning fletcher and carrick have more time and not as pressured on the ball
something I did notice though was that along with good movement from the attacking 4, there was also some good one touch/ quick passing, and we looked a lot better for it. although the old 'give and go' is a very basic technique, it's one we simply haven't really be using in recent years

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11 Jan 2014 18:44:44
Januzaj once again when put on the left is much more effective. Kagawa has improved now he's been moved central and we are playing much better.

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11 Jan 2014 18:34:34
On Al Jazeera

Ex premiere league footballer from Norway who is a journalist in germany now says Neither Reus or Gundogan will be available as Dortmund would never allow them to go givn they have lost Lew now to Bayern. Also say if Gundogan goes he will end up at Real Madrid. Same guy who broke the Ozil to Arsenal story in the summer.

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{Ed002's Note - JAF speaks when sometimes he should be istening. Ignore him.}

Could you elaborate please ed :D

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{Ed002's Note - Just ignore him.}

Basically Ed002 saying JAF does not know what he is talking about, which is encouraging if you are United fan.

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11 Jan 2014 18:23:30
Same thing struggling to create enough chances and when we do players snatch at it. Welbeck has the composure of a Rino in front of goal and we need a brake somewhere. Great free kick by Janusaj, shame did not go in.

Need to score early in second half and settle things early. I can see the crowd and the players getting very nervous if this keeps up.

We need to push up the field and put them under pressure.

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11 Jan 2014 18:23:18
Doesn't seem to matter what side is put out the football is dire. Just no ideas what so ever. Surely worth putting lingard and zaha on for the 2nd half. Less than 40 per cent possession at old Trafford, not happend a lot before surely. Can't see a positive result here. Hopefully I'll be eating my words later

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Happy to eat my words :-) Januzaj was fantastic 2nd half. The team really picked up. So good to see a fit fletcher back. Kagawa is so much better behind the striker always feel he comes into the game when we start playing well. Not the type of player to change a game but I'd love to see him make a real impact

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11 Jan 2014 18:22:33
Welcome to Old Trafford; the theatre of boredom

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11 Jan 2014 18:20:41
United with 34% possession in that first half but i'm sure GDS thinks that's us controlling the game like we did last week.

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Stats mean FA. The only important ones are in the Goals Scores Column. let's see what they say after 90 minutes and then comment.

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Agrred Betty.

Well we had the lions share of possession against Everton and Newcastle and Spurs, more shots on goal and still lost.

Goals win games and we need to start games with some early goals and it is quite a different story when teams have to come out and play and if not for our finishing we can score a few more.

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11 Jan 2014 18:20:15
34% possession at home. dear o dear. Swansea are so composed in their passing. they are literally picking those positions and passing it with ease.

Need a much improved second performance.

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11 Jan 2014 18:19:44
All that the Swans have to do is close down Januzaj and we have nothing when we have the ball (which isn't very often). Swansea passing the ball around us as if they are the home team. Laudrup is an excellent manager. We can still win it but we need more going forward.

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Rubbish as usual, Swansea look relegation fodder to me, you can have all that possession but if you do nothing with it (like getting a shot on target) it's pointless.

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11 Jan 2014 18:12:02
Just cannot see anyone of any quality signing for us, imagine players linked to us watching us play, there is no chance anyone would fancy being in this squad. Swansea have had twice as much possession as us and they are fighting relegation. This side would struggle I the championship no talent and no fight would rather see the reserve side playing

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11 Jan 2014 18:31:53
I agree. We are a very poor side. You simply cannot be worse than this.
Chelsea away. God. we would finish below 8th.

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Dire. Injuries? Yes we have injuries but so do Swansea and they are still outplaying us! Forget new signings, anyone playing Moysies tactics will struggle. Whatever happens in the next 45 we really are toilet. Please, please please sort it out David!

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Second half we saw some of our old attacking style and everything went through Adnan. We are relying on an 18 year old and he isn't letting us down.
Tactics were awful in the first half and it looked like the players were told to go for it in the second. Let them play David, stop playing safe, we are United, not Everton. Just a few signs there of what we can do, now let's see what we do against Chelsea!

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11 Jan 2014 18:05:22
Too slow and static. Trying not to lose rather than win it. Rubbish. Speed up the passing.

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11 Jan 2014 18:05:22
just my view on some of the more believable rumours

firstly, not a rumour but Dorin Rotariu has said he has met with utd officials and spoke for several hours to get to know his character as is standard procedure.
he is a young attacker (lw/cam/rw) who, from what I have seen (admittedly on you tube) reminds me a lot of januzaj in terms of style and play. Now I know youtube is one of the worst places to make this sort of judgement but you do start to pick up a general idea of how he plays, and what I really liked is that he likes to run beyond the defender from the wing/ midfield which we really don't have at the min. my worry would be that we are lacking those type of players capable of making threading balls for him to run onto (only really kagawa, rooney and januzaj). we should be able to pick him up for less the 2-3mil would be well worth a shot, esp if is at the expense of young or anderson

so onto the actual rumours,
we have supposedly agreed a deal for less than 10mil for Garay, with him arriving in the summer. to me this makes perfect sense with rio retiring and vidic looking like he's going too, we have been tracking him for a while, would be great to play alongside Evans or Jones

Gundoagan for 24mil, again makes perfect sense, only has 18 months on his contract so for a player who would normally be in 30-40mil bracket that would seem to be a fair value. he is the right type of player that we need, the only real questions are does he want to come? and will he want to wait till the summer?
real madrid were looking at him but with alonso signing a new deal, I think that may make us favourites were he to go.
in terms of midfield targets, I think we are only realistically able to land a few of the top class players who would be available, those being Gundagon, Vidal, Koke or Herrera, with probably needing at least two of those if we really want to sort ourselves out. Moyes had doubts as to whether he could stand up to the strains of the premiership so that may exclude him, Vidal and koke would realistically have to wait till summer, but Gundogan could be gotten this Jan

my prediction come start of next season we'll have brought in

Gundogan-24m (jan)
Vidal-25m+nani
or Koke-30m
Dorin Rotariu-1.3m
Everton Riberio-?m
Garay-8m
LB-I'm not sure who will be (maybe Willems)
Reus-35m+Kagawa

that would give us a smaller squad next year, but would replace those who will/ should be leaving come summer, and importantly with better quality.

dags

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Really wouldn't get your hopes up on those transfers. Can't see Koke or Vidal wanting to move to United considering the healthy positions Juve and Atletico are in, and 2 of Dortmund's best players?

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What can I say?. I'm an optimist lol
both reus and gundogan would be a stretch but if we don't go for reus we could always offer kagawa as part of the gundogan deal as a sweetner, 18months on contract, certainly plausible

just out of interest, have we ever signed a german before? (non youth)

dags

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Koke release cause is much lower than 30 mil but it a very difficult release cause tho

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11 Jan 2014 17:55:54
We literally cannot do the basics. We can't keep the ball for more than three passes. And our play is so slow. Fletcher and Carroll are both slow so it doesn't work.

Surely this is partly tactics and training methods.

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Assume that's meant to be carrick?
i agree tho, we really need someone who can retain possession and get us moving forward so players like rooney don't have to come so deep to collect the ball, instead of being in the box where they do the most damage

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11 Jan 2014 17:36:09
Looking at the pitch, am I wrong in thinking we have decreased the width? Also, how is Moyes playing Valencia again?

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The balance of the team is all wrong. Though I believe Januzaj will be a great no. 10 one day, he is the only player on the pitch who can actually grab the ball on the halve way line or wing and make something happen but he's been isolate up front all game. With a better midfield behind him he will excel playing in the hole but for now he needs to switch positions with Kagawa who's looks lost again on the wing.

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Also had a thought about how we are looking a bit like Liverpool? Bit of a joke post but, owned by Americans, refused to buy a new centre back, keeping playing Ferdinand a bit like Carragher? Sold our best player to Real Madrid, Ronaldo like Alonso? Has a great talent that does not play, Zaha like Sterling? Continue to play the best midfield player our club has had, Scholes like Gerrard? Best player to move to Chelsea and fail, Rooney like Torres? Best Spanish keeper not to play number 1 in Spain, De Gea like Reina? Amazing right back, Johnson like Rafael? Mediocre manager instead of getting the best, Rodgers like Moyes? Cash cow because owners refuse to invest on the best, Henry like Glazers? Supporters who refuse to abandon the club?

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11 Jan 2014 16:58:22
Decent line up tonight given our injuries. I think that is probably our strongest available line up.
DDG
Raphael
Smalling
Vidic
Evra
Valencia
Carrick
Januzaj
Fletcher
Kagawa
Wellbeck

Lets hope we can get back to winning ways and stop the rot.

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Sorry, Rafael, Welbeck. Spelling!

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Look forward to shutting a few up today including the armchair pundits.

News RVP is out for 6 more weeks.

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I hadn't realised that Lingard was back from his time at Birmingham City. I really hope that he and Zaha get a bit of game time today!

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God help us, is Evra trying his best to have a howler. 5 minutes and already twice completely out of position.

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GCU

I won't be around later this evening win or lose but even a win against mighty Swansea will not make any difference to where we are or what I believe the situation is.

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Shahram, I predicted this exact line-up and DAMN RvP is out for longer. Rushed back too early and look what's happened :(

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Rooney was also rushed back too early and he is also out. Jred expressed his fear about this a week ago and it's happened. The only way we were going to finish top four was with Rooney and RvP playing. It's looking grim.

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We just HAVE to sign a left back in this window. We look vulnerable there in every game. On the plus side we are creating chances at the other end, but we need to start putting them away. If only Welbeck could finish!

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Look at GCU the armchair pundit!

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Sydney

It is the best that is available.

REDMAN

I don't agree with much of what you post here anyway and it is all the same thing all the time. Moyes is wrong for the job, so to me it makes no difference what you think we need or where we are a see are what I call the opposite sides of a coin and what I said before is firmly true.

We are exactly where we are given our current players and more importantly what we are missing. We have a good manager who deserves a lot more respect than what some of you armchair pundits give him, which is quite embarrassing and sad.

As I write this Bambi has scored to go up 2-0, Which I am sure is unfortunate as all the bitching will have to wait of a while.

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Devil Dust

Coming from you is rich. There are some guys on this site, who are just bitter and pessimistic and quite frankly have no balance.

I bet a big chunk on us today winning so who is bloody arm chair pundit.

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11 Jan 2014 16:20:45
Not directly United related, but it seems that Cardiff has signed Mats Daehli. I know a lot for you guys rated him in his time at United, and I'm very excited to see him in the PL (if he gets the chance). Ole knows him well from Molde.

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11 Jan 2014 15:12:05
Eds. Am I right in thinking that all three of Coentrao, Gundogan and Vidal could play for us in the Champions League this season if they are signed this month?

I've had a quick look but am unclear whether a player counts as cup-tied if he is registered in a teams Champions League squad but does not feature in the competition (Although obviously in Vidal's case it is a little different with Juventus being out of the CL).

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{Ed002's Note - No.}

Cheers ED - but any chance you could elaborate on why I'm wrong? I've done a little more digging and I can't see it. I know it's highly unlikely we will sign all three players (or any of them for that matter) - but am just curious if it is a possibility.

I know that one incoming player can play for the same club in the same competition for two clubs providing that the first club is no longer in the competition (ie, Vidal).

Article 17.17 of UEFA's regulations allows for up to three new eligible players to be added to a club's A list before Feb 1st and all mentions of what constitute a player being cup tied appear to require them to actually play in the competition (there's mention that unused subs are not cup tied).

As neither Gundogan nor Coentrao have played any European football this season (Coentrao has been an unused sub twice and Gundogan has failed to make the match day squad so far) - I can't see why they and Vidal could not in theory be eligible providing they are signed and registered in time?

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{Ed002's Note - I had not realised neither had played. But I think you are wasting your time over this.}

11 Jan 2014 14:47:19
I think we should be doing everything within our power to secure the signing of Ilkay Gundogan. The guy would revitalise our midfield and we could offer Kagawa and money seen as though Dortmund are still in love with Shinji.

Kagawa + £20million/25million would surely be the equivalent of a £40million bid.

I still see him joining Madrid but he'd be my saviour for the CM spot. Sell Anderson, Giggs retires, buy another CM'er (cheap-ish, promising youngster).

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I agree, get him, pay a little extra if needed and 1 other for the middle who can open up teams.

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I agree he would be a great signing, but not sure the club would take the gamble of signing him now until he has proved his fitness after nearly 6 mths out with a spinal injury. Hope we are genuinly in for him though.

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11 Jan 2014 13:26:00
SAF not at the game tonight he's gone to the Caribean to see the Glazers

Also a rumour of "Special guests " at the game tonight let's hope its a player or two

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Why would he meet up with the Glazers in the Carribean? Most journalists have been saying he is there on a pre planned family outing.

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I thought he'd gone just for a holiday with his family to the Caribbean.

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Prob to see how his shares are doing!

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The value of the United Shares on the US Stock Market have plummeted in the past month.
Red Setter

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11 Jan 2014 13:19:24
very speculative but I wonder if Chelsea would loan out mata to us until the summer. i'd rather see him sign permanently but I don't see it happening. if he is playing regular until the summer he will put himself in contention for spain in the summer, we are out of the running for league so were no threat to Chelsea, if he plays well against arsenal, city, Liverpool its helping out Chelsea. works for everyone I think

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My initial thought was no way would Chelsea go for that but your logic makes sense. Still don't think it will happen but boy it's a sign of how far we've slipped this season.

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Chelsea would never loan Mata to him.

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Hi eds/posters, I had a few questions, now although I will speculate on figures in my post they're purely hypothetical and I'm just trying to make a point. Any info would be appreciated.

Now Mata, let's assume the player had the desire to leave and Manchester United were interested (purely hypothetical) could Manchester United buy his contract out in order to secure his services? Or is it more complicated than that? I only ask cause let's say he is paid 100,000 a week that's 5.2 million a year and a total of 12.8 million for the 2 and half years of his contract.

Am I away with the fairies with this one? Is this purely wishful thinking? Cheers guys.

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{Ed002's Note - None of it is correct.}

Liverpool fan in piece Now why would this happen, I assume the rationale for a mata loan signing would be to aid champions league qualification? With utds brand, image, buying power and allure for top players ( many of which Chelsea would look to pursue ) this would make no sence for Chelsea

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11 Jan 2014 13:14:54
Was thinking today, if we could sign a left back this January, then I believe all we would need in the summer is 2 midfielders and a center back as priority, then possibly a left sided attacker if possible.
I would love us to go big and sign gundogan and Vidal for center midfield, then mangala as center back, whether that sounds realistic is another story but as others have said, players could be involved in deals.
We could sign gundogan in the summer for £15-20 million based on 1 year left on his contract, plus he hasn't featured much because of injury, Vidal's deal could involve nani and wait for it. rvp! I know I might get slated but I fully expect Rooney to become our captain in the summer in a bid to keep him, I would like to see 1 up front with a nice creative midfielder behind him, I believe rvp is a risk because of injuries mixed with Moyes training, so I'd go for Rooney up top, the player I'd try behind him is Januzaj with his hopefully new number 7 shirt, I think he could be one of the best creative midfielders in the world if I'm honest and would love to see him in that role, so a swap of Vidal for nani and rvp? Could it happen?
Up to now £20 million spent maybe a bit more if the Vidal deal involved money so let's say £30 million spent. Mangala would probs be bout £30 million I'd say so there's £60 million on 3 top class players which in hindsight doesn't seem a lot. If this was the case and this all happened we could then try for Reus and throw Kagawa in the mix, I love Kagawa and hope he does stay but I just can't see him cutting it at united so I'd let this happen, £25 million and Kagawa?
I'd keep the likes of young, Valencia, cleverley and chicharito as rotational players unless we got a good offer for any.

I know this all won't happen but I'm just saying ideas that are realistic in my opinion. An £85 million outlay isn't that unrealistic for our club.or it shouldn't be. Can u imagine our quality with those 4 added? I know rvp would b a big miss but for me he is a gamble now

A 4-2-3-1 formation with an attack of Reus Januzaj and Valencia/Zaha behind Rooney is pretty lethal I think, then gundogan and Vidal in mid, back 4 of Rafael, jones, mangala and a left back (not sure who)

To me that's a pretty good team

Thoughts everyone?

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The beauty of signing Coentrao is that it would be like signing two players as, although he isn't the best, he can play fairly well in central midfield. Previous Madrid managers have trusted him to play there in some Clasico's so he isn't too bad.

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11 Jan 2014 12:27:55
hi ed's, guy's. what do u think is the reason we are struggling? is it because, moyes is making us come down to his level or that he let saf staff leave.do u think had he kept saf staff for 1 season and learned from them and atleast tried to reach utd's level, would he have been fine then.what do u think is the problem, sorry if I made some mistakes i'm not having a nice season, because moyes should have taken saf advice and keept saf staff.had he done that then we would have not struggled. zee:)

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Moyes has changed a lot of things and prefers things done his way as he should, Fletch speaks about it in a red top today in part about the changes

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The problem is :-

1. The club did not get him his transfer targets. Major blunder.

2. Injuries to key players. Not being able to field a full strength side.

3. Deadwood, or average players, too many of them in the squad.

4. A squad which only knew one manager and his ways, which has been together for long and needs to be broken up is struggling to adapt.

An 18 year old is our most creative player in the team at times, Three recognized central midfielders of which 2 are over 30 and the third is cleverley, two slower than turtles center backs and a left back who has forgotten how to defend (a long time ago) doesn't that say a lot about the state of this squad?

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Hi Zee, The reason we are struggling is because the squad is not good enough, pure and simple.Take Rooney ad RVP out of the starting XI (as they have been for much of the season), and our best team without them is average. No matter what way you cut it, the team is not good enough.
Moyes has made mistakes no doubt, but I don't think anyone quite realised the size of the task he has taken on. I think his biggest mistake was getting rid of the coaching staff, but even then people conveniently ignore the fact that he asked Rene Moulensteen to stay on. An offer that Rene declined.

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Moyes changes is one thin but the other thing is that we have so many injuries. This is the biggest problem.

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I think it is a mixture of a few things, all discussed on here in various ways. The players aren't good enough, we need to clear out about 8-9 players and bring in 5-6 world class ones and then we can judge where moyes is at and how good he is.

'Bringing us down to his level' is a daft thing to say because he did better than this at Everton.

I think there is a lot of overreactions to everything to be honest, nobody could have expected it to be this bad, but we need to get behind the players and the manager. Good supporters are there at the worst of times and I have been so proud to be a part of our amazing away fans this season, what a noise we have made.

People's memories are so short that almost everyone was shocked that moyes was nominated for manager of the month for December. Before the spurs game we were right back in it, now 3 defeats later moyes should be fired with no replacement lined up and it's all the end of the world.

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In theory, the spending power of the billionaire-financed clubs has been curtailed by the FFP rules. But that depends on how fairly they are enforced. On the other hand, United derives most of its massive income from 3 sources. It has the largest capacity PL ground averaging over 74000 spectators a game, it has great income from TV, both the PL and European Cup and finally a very large proportion derives from very lucrative sponsor deals. So even with the most unreasonable outlay on interest payments, the club makes a profit, so FFP rules are easily satisfied and would be even if say 60m were spent on transfers in 2014. What we should be really worried about is if the results continue to deteriorate, we don't qualify for the champions league next year and our sponsors walk away.
The comment was made that we should not panic buy now. If that saves this season, and we have to pay over the odds, then it is something that has to be done. If the present management team cannot do that, then heaven help us.

Red Setter

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There are many reasons why we are struggling. Transfers for the last few years have not matched in quality those made by our competitors. We relied for far too long on the class of 92. Remember that Hazard was allegedly signing for us, but preferred the outlook at Chelsea. We lost the best members of the academy in 2012. The summer transfer window was a disaster. There was value in the market which United did not attract. The loss of most of the known coaching staff cannot have helped. The loss of the best PL manager contributed greatly. Injuries to key players, and I mean RvP and Rooney have a difficult situation much worse. Oh, and the realisation by other teams that United is vulnerable in defence, so their confidence grows as our ebbs away. How many more reasons do we need?

The glass is less than half full.

Red Setter

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GDS2

Agree, worst thing we can do is sack him right now.

But.

"The players aren't good enough, we need to clear out about 8-9 players and bring in 5-6 world class ones and then we can judge where moyes is at and how good he is. "

How do we do this, with limited finances, an inept CEO and the possibility of no CL football?

This is what worries me. In the long-term, if we fail to make top 4, I don't see light at the end of the tunnel in terms of new personnel.

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11 Jan 2014 12:42:37
Perhaps Moyes decided not to go ahead with SAF's supposed targets because he believed they were a continuation of the poor value transfer policy United have been mired in since the Glazers took over. We will see if the one purchase he did make works out better once he is fully fit and Moyes is able to adjust the team according to his tactics and strategy.

He will have to rebuild the team with less money at his disposal than the billionaire financed clubs and, coupled with that, he will be starting from further back.

Its a mammoth task. It will surely take years.

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11 Jan 2014 13:27:12
The only reason not to push forward with Sir Alex's targets is because they wouldn't fit the style the new manager intends to play, which makes the signing of Felliani interesting. Moyes next few signings will be very telling to how we intend to play.

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We still seem to be sniffing around some of them like Garay though, the deal was essentially done but called off in summer and now we want him again? And possibly Di Maria.

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11 Jan 2014 12:30:39
and the reason we have injuries is moyes training sessions!?

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11 Jan 2014 10:39:31
People are blinded by success, they see a team that won the league last season and use the war cry we must be a great team.
But look at the league last year every other team underperformed, United won the league not playing well. We had fergy, who I think some are only now starting to appreciate how influential he was. You have to laugh of all the smooth transition post from last season .
And we had rvp who covered up the cracks.
Take the red glasses of and what have you got.
An ageing defence, vidic, ferdy where a world class unit imo none of evans and co reach that level.
We have issues at lb and rb.
Cm enough said
Wingers enough said.
Is any of this moyes fault of course not this team has been in decline since tevez ronaldo and co left.
Quite simply the majority of players coming in aren't as good as the ones that went before them.
Look at the cleverly debate that went on for 18 month, potential world class was being argued, never in a million years imo.


We need to dust ourselves of and start again.
And just for the record if you want to blame anyone imo look no further than the glazers, we haven't been the same in the transfer market since they took over.

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Sorry do not totally agree with you at!, we have got some very good youngsters such as DDG, RDS, PJ, NP, AJ, WZ, AH to go along with WR, RVP. As for the blame you are partially right the Glazers however Fergie has to take some blame he didn't pay the wages to keep Pogba, Morrisons & Fryers as well as buying average players like Young, Nani & Anderson. However Moyes knew he had the job in June and didn't go out and sign what we all know we need! A left back, center back, 2 x center midfielders and a striker/attacking winger.
But certain wins has papered over some of the cracks, but for me Moyes was never the right appointment too negative and out of his depth? We should of looked at Klopp(probably no chance), Laudrup, Martinez or even a management team of G Neville, and Butt, Becks and Giggsy, easier to attract top players when they know who they will play for! Has any top player heard of D Moyes a big chance that is no.
However I will still be there today again and backing my poor team as you put it!
Tucker

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Tucker
Didn't once say it is a poor team, but it's an ageing team going backwards not forwards.
Tell who is last top class young player to come through the ranks and make it to the very top?
Look at the team of ronaldo a co and tell me we are not going backwards.

But you have completely missed my point this team has been ageing and going backwards for a number of years to blame this on moyes imo is wrong .
Is it moyes fault we didn't buy fabergas or Herrera .
Did moyes not want a lb.

I just don't buy the this is a great team because we won the league last year so it must be moyes fault we are not playing well

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@Tucker

1. You seem to have no idea how or why Pogba, Morrison and Fryers left. Read up a little on all three of the situations. It had nothing to do with wage dispute.

2. Moyes DID target a left back in Baines and central midfielders in Fabregas and later Herrera, funny how that gets conveniently ignored. If the club can't get them signed up, Moyes can't be blamed for it.

3. So instead of Moyes you would have had Neville, Butt, Becks, Giggs who have ZERO experience in top level management?

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Completely agree with each and every word of that post jred.

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Redfaith, Moyes chased gained when he knew Everton will be asking a silly amount for his services. I think it was bad enough giving them £27.5m for fellaini.don't you?
As for Fabregas and Herrera, it was reported we offered barca £27m for Fabregas, on which planet are we living? Why should barca sell one of the best midfielders in the world for that sum? They will need a minimum. Of £50m or more, and we're assuming Fabregas wants to come to united, which he clearly doesn't.
As for Herrera. We did not want to match his buy out so Bilbao rightly told us where to go.
So we can make all the noises that we are interested in top players, but if we are offering selling teams derisory sums, then all that's doing, is making united look like persons.

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Redfaith, I've read about Pogba he wanted more money and game time and the turning point was playing a left winger and a right back in center mid before him, ravel was in trouble with police and club issues would of been better to loan him out for 2 years than sell him, Zeki was very similar to Pogba from what I've read.
Yes I know the team isn't as good as when we had CR7 & Tevez etc, but we can't compete with City, Chelsea, Monaco, bayern, real or psg, and money talks
Jred
What I was trying to make the point was its a culmative number of errors right from glazers, SAF and Moyes. Yes I would rather have had them with no experience doesn't seem to bother the clubs/national team in Germany but remind what G Neville does? Isn't he no2 for England been a good club captain and leader, Becks for publicity and extra money making for the Glazers. Can't believe you even thought we had a chance with Cesc really that was publicity to appease fans at the time. Now we have got Moyes we have to back him in what ever players he sees fit! But paying 6 mill more on Fellaini than he had to is just stupid especially when he knew the players contract details! Although I think he will come good, let's remember we are only 5 points off fourth not a million miles of. But don't expect any major signings this jan transfer window as you very rarely get the right player or have to pay well over the odds.

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11 Jan 2014 09:39:31
A very quiet window so far that could mean a few different things: the right players are just not available now, valuations and fees are stratospheric*(which generally happens in this window) selling clubs are holding the buying clubs to ransom and I think for the first time a lot of "targets" are having worldy seasons with thier clubs leading to a reluctance from player and club to change.

I think all the top teams in the EPL have areas they would like to strengthen but still it remains very quiet, I believe this window is a complete waste of time and nothing but a distraction to everyone involved a system where every club could make 3 emergency signings through the season with a cap on transfer fees would be better in my humble opinion.

Oh well heres to hoping the lads put in a great performance today and get 3 much needed points and quell the negativity for a day or so :) and to all of the guys who are going have fun you lucky lucky devils;)

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11 Jan 2014 08:38:41
We have got to get Kurt Zouma he is
perfect for us Vidic and Rio rolled into
one .We can't sit back and let someone
else get him £18 MILLION should seal the deal

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Top shout. A must at the price surely. Him and Jones could form perfect CB partnership for ten years plus.

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11 Jan 2014 12:58:03
Probably Off to Chelsea. Good player. very good player.

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He's ideal for us which will probably mean he'll go elsewhere. Him and Jones, with Evans and Smalling as backup, would be very promising IMO.

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He is a super player already and very young. I would love us to sign him.

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11 Jan 2014 08:25:12
Was wondering what people would think to if we had kept these young players and integrated them into the first team when we could? Any opinion is welcome and please excuse any spelling mistakes I make!
Paul pogba
Mats moller daehli
Magnus wolf eikrem
Ravel Morrison
Zeki fryers
Robbie Brady
Zoran tosic
Personally I don't agree with all of them leaving but I think a couple really did need it to kick start their careers. Would have loved to see Zeki fryers, pogba and daehli stay! Wouldn't be bad additions to our current squad.

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Good post and out midfield will certainly be better than it is now and we woyulkd not have to pay £27, 5m on wig!

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Cheers NM. Imagine how strong our squad would look as well. oh man

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11 Jan 2014 07:05:47
The posts are starting to become just more and more ridiculous on here.

People asking "Do you trust Moyes with the money?" make me laugh. Based on what? ONE signing? A signing in which the club negotiated poorly with low offers? A signing who didn't have a pre season with us and has been injured and not settled yet? Based on an injury ravaged season in which the strongest line up could be fielded in just 2 or 3 games?

What about his other targets like Fabregas, Herrera, Baines which were just what we needed but the club didn't get them done?

Get a grip lads, Moyes knows a good footballer and he has the right scouting support. Its pretty clear what his targets are and they are quality players.

Contrary to popular belief he DOES NOT decide the valuations or negotiate the deals.

Some of the reactions on here have been absolutely shameful. It makes me think a lot of you probably didn't deserve a great manager like Sir Alex at the club.

We have been going on about the poor tempo of play, slack defending from Evra, slow center backs, no midfield and underperforming wingers for a few years now, but suddenly now its all of Moyes' creation? No other manager than Sir Alex could get these players to play like a top side. Not Jose, not Klopp, not Pep or any other name you may fancy. Its been coming for a long time. This is a team which has grown old together and played under just one manager for a long time. Its exactly similar to the situation in which Chelsea found themselves.

He has a rebuilding task at hand, a big one. He needs to ship out the deadwood and bring in new faces, make it his own team and the club need to do whatever they can to make it happen. The club has been poor in the transfer market for a few years now, that needs to change. Rio, Vidic, Giggs, Evra will all be gone in the summer and replaced with younger more energetic players. If the club can sign a Vidal or Koke (both of whom Moyes has targeted) then we WILL have a better midfielder than Cleverley.

Should Moyes settle for a lesser quality left back at a higher rate right now or should he buy a top quality one in the summer? I think he will do the latter.

On the other hand the away support has been absolutely fantastic. They have made the team feel at home on the road. The opposition home fans were complaining to a journalist on whether United had been given a bigger allocation, when told that it was the same as other clubs, they couldn't believe it. Its been ten times as loud as any other away support.

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Its good to read th occasional bit of sense posted on hear. But alas, I think it will probably far on deaf ears as usual. Await the barrage of negative responses!

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Morning redfaith. Do you honestly think that fellaini represents good value at £27.5m? He played quite a few matches before his injury and he was rubbish in all of them. More importantly, his best games for Everton were when he was played behind striker and the ball was lumped up to him. He does that well, but that is not the way united play. And hopefully it won't be in future. So Moyes then attempted to play him as a defensive midfielder and he did not show any signs that he can adapt to this position.
Agree with you on the away support and long it may last.
Disagree that anyone should be ashamed just for speaking the truth, if someone crtisizes the team then that does not mean we don't love them or support them, exactly the opposite.I think it is a sympstom of the world today that no one is allowed to critisize. The only way we can improve is to identify our weaknesses and correct them. "Believe" on its own is not going to cut it if we have an average manager who cannot seem to organise, motivate or command the dressing room.

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Great post RF I don't think any manager would have got anything else out of this squad. Regardless of what the "Moyes out " brigade want he will be given time and money to create his own squad once that has happened only then can we get on our soap box and judge.

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To quote you "The club has been poor in the transfer market for a few years now, that needs to change." this. I posted last year we needed about 8 new players (Savage says 12) and got ridiculed for it. I also said I hope some can come through our youth players either way its a huge rebuild. The players we bring in need to be top notch ( which should go without saying).

For those who say funds will be made available I'll quote you again "The club has been poor in the transfer market for a few years now, that needs to change." despite all the evidence to the contrary. Two great example would be Fabregas or Herrera. We bid for both a derisory amount for Fabregas and 30m Euros for Herrera when AB said we could have him for his buyout clause = 36m Euros. I'm not convinced Herrera would be the right player, but that is irrelevant, if he's the guy we want then pay the extra.

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At last some one talking sense and not a Johny come lately who have all been spoiled with continuous success. The job David Moyes has taken on is immense and this is recognised by everyone connected with the club, the reason he was given a 6yr contract.We have a choice, a short term fix or the job done the right way, which will take longer, but will eventually provide long term success, I know what I prefer.

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Sorry but I think your wrong, I think someone like Klopp would have got the team playing well and to say they would not is just guessing, the managers you mentioned have a winning mentality unlike Moyes, if they would of got the players they wanted, probably not (due to woodward) but they would have gotten a lot more out of the team than Moyes.
Irrespective of what I think though Moyes is the manager and really needs to sign someone soon to stop this rot, if only temporarily then let's really see what he can do next year.

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@Nomidfield

What does the amount we paid for Fellaini have to do with Moyes? He DOES NOT decide the valuation or negotiate. He deals with the football side of things. The negotiation team is to blame for the amount we spent on Fellaini. Fellaini isn't great but he is effective at what he does. He needs time to settle and will do a job for us. He was very good last season for Everton.

I do not have anything against people who are not happy with the results, and have constructive criticism but the manner of the reactions is what I am ashamed of. Moyes being called a "clown" is going way too far.

This is a manager who came into the biggest managerial job in football and was not given most of his transfer targets, was left with an ageing defense, no midfield and a star player "issue". Moyes isn't the problem at the club.

@stalyvegas red

Neither Jose nor Klopp could have done much with this side. The only reason we won last year was RVP being fit and Sir Alex KNOWING these players inside out and his management. It would have been impossible for anyone to have the level of understanding that he had with these players just after coming in.

Dortmund have had a few injuries this season, similar to ours and they are struggling in the Bundesliga.

Truth is this team will not improve until at least 7-8 players are shipped out and replaced with proper quality replacements.

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Stalyvegas,
"I think someone like Klopp would have got the team playing well and to say they would not is just guessing".
Is it not also guessing to say Klopp would have got this team playing well? The trust is we don't know, and never will. There is no guarantee that ANY manager would be doing any better. SAF got every last drop out of this squad, and it has all come to a grinding halt. This squad has come to the end of its road and needs rebuilding. I keep reading on here that we should have got Klopp or Mourinho ar Guardiola, and maybe that is a fair arguement, but Guardiola CHOSE Munich, and what's to say that any of the others mentioned would have come?

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Betty/REDFAITH

Klopp is a proven winner, who knows how to build winning teams and play great football. No matter what you do you cannot give Moyes the experience he hasn't got. Previously Everton were dangerous at OT when they humped the ball up to Fellaini playing just off the front man.
What is interesting is what the Everton fans thought about Moyes. Take a read for example after they lost to Wigan in the cup, many wanted rid of him, then they openly couldn't believe their luck that we took him.
This is Sexton revisited and many of us fear for the future of our club if Moyes stays

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Redfaith, if you read my post and red man post, fellaini used to play a different roll at Everton. They were quite content to pump the ball up to him to make nuisance of himself or nod the ball to the attacker. But this is Manchester United, we don't play football like that. Or I hope not anyway.
With regards the money spent on fellaini, of course Moyes sanctioned the deal and agreed on the price. Are you honestly saying that mooted didn't have anything to do with the price of the fellaini deal? That is utter rubbish. And if that was the case, then Moyes is even more clueless than we give him credit for.
On the subject of klopp and mourinho, I think even the most blinkered ardent fans of Moyes will have to agree that both would have done a much better job than out man. You can argue as much as you want, but both klopp and mourinho are winners, been there and done it, while Moyes is still trying to make himself believe that he can do the job, if and when he does that, he then has to convince the team that he can do the job.
In the meantime, we will have to put up with his clueless tactics, excuses about referees, excuses re injuries, excuses about bad luck.

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Spot on nomidfield

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11 Jan 2014 06:25:26
Really good article in the Mail this morning about the change from SAF to DM. Pretty balanced and makes a lot of sense. It could just all be paper guff but I read it and felt a lot of it may be true. Whatever is happening we are going to hear all sorts of rumours and stories emanating from the dressing room so I guess we should just buckle up and hold tight

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The article was very interesting AJH.

I've been saying it for a while and one of the Editors mentioned it as well that this team has grown old together and played under just one manager and a lot of the senior members are not being able to adapt.

Rio, Vidic, Evra, Chicharito, Kagawa, Giggs could all be gone during the summer.

One poster here made similar points from that article a few weeks ago and was absolutely hammered for saying it.

Testing times indeed for the club, we need to stick together instead of pointing fingers at each other.

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Morning ajh. What was the gist of it?

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In reality we won't hear stories from the dressing room, what you'll read is rubbish off twitter and made up stuff from the papers.

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11 Jan 2014 00:57:49
Eds are we going to sign anybody this window? We are in serious trouble if we don't and will miss out on the top 4.any of the eds if ye are about I'm assuming the 'moyes has lost the dressing room' story is a load of rubbish?thanks

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{Ed002's Note - Give me a break.}

11 Jan 2014 00:01:32
I haven't had this feeling before. At 18 years old, all I have ever known is United being a winning team, I would be confident before every game since the age of 7.

Now, all of a sudden I have this feeling deep down that there is a good chance we won't be winning today, and it truly shocks me.

But no matter what the scoreline is, no matter who is in charge and whos wearing the shirt. I will always support my beloved club Manchester United.

Moyes needs to get something special out of the players tomorrow, or it may be his last game at this club.

Anyone going to the match, I hope you enjoy it and be as loud as possible, if only I had a better part time job allowing me to go to more games!

Have a nice weekend guys!

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