Manchester United Banter Archive November 11 2014

 

Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.


11 Nov 2014 22:35:43
Getting a bit fed up of the constant LVG bashing, mainly from Beast. We have clearly stopped going so gunho to try and shore up the back a bit, which we managed with a clean sheet. We have had 11 different CB partnerships this season, what did people actually expect from
Us? Gone him a chance and another transfer window or two before writing him off. Seriously saying we should of signed Hangalaand?? That some kind of joke. If we were going to sign any premier league CB while we wait for the top class one we're after, then for me if take Ryan Shawcross.

Believable0 Unbelievable3

Shawcross is a red card and sending off waiting to happen.
If we were to sign a premier league defender I would choose Cahill.

Agree5 Disagree0

I also think that even though he sometimes comes across as LVG obsessed, Beast talks a lot of sense.

Agree5 Disagree4

We kept a clean sheet against Crystal Palace - not Real Madrid. The performance was plain awful.

Agree7 Disagree1

12 Nov 2014 01:50:20
I hate to use the word luck.

We have been unlucky with injuries at the back this season.

I presume LVG envisioned a Rojo, Jones partnership. which we haven't even seen yet as far as I can remember.

LVG perhaps thought that Rojo, Jones, Smalling and Evans with a couple of youth making the step up would be enough. I actually think he's probably right if you discount injuries.

Agree2 Disagree2

I've given Beast a hard time about his posts but he is entitled to his view. I usually err on the side of optimism but you can't get away from the fact this is our worse start since Big Ron.

Given who we have played and the money when are spent, the start is even more disappointing, there is no point trying to dress that up.

However, what we saw last year under Moyes was a gradual worsening in our situation as time went on. If LVG is as good as his reputation says we should see a gradual improvement. Can't say I'm seeing it at the moment.

Agree10 Disagree1

I think we will buy our way out of trouble but money will only take you so far .
Top 4 is a must but i'm not sure lvg has a title or CL in him

Agree2 Disagree6

Stand - I'm only bashing LVG as he is the man accountable for the edn product. If we won the next 10 games playing good football everyone would be praising LVG for a job well done and nobody would be bashing him. As it is we are not playing well and scratching about for points with the odd goal or last minute come back. He deserves the criticism as we are not privy to who is specifically responsible for the failings. Buck has to stop with the gaffer if we are not told who is to blame for the myriad of basic mistakes that have been made since he came to power.

Agree4 Disagree2

12 Nov 2014 09:40:50
jred,

I made that point yesterday, if we start winning the tune will change to 'we just bought our way out of it' or 'well LVG should be doing well he spent X amount', I imagine you will never give LVG any credit, and that post just proved it.

Agree10 Disagree5

Gds
Not at all pal .
I think this squad is a top 4 squad so that's what we should be looking at .
As i have said many many times lvg is a decent manager and i think he will do ok at united with this squad.
But i don't think he walks on water or can do no wrong.
Have a look at some of my posts when we signed him before a ball was kicked they will say the same thing.
But this is united and just like madrid, city munich etc its about winning titles and CL.
And for me that's what lvg should be judged on as long as the owners continue to back him with him with the cash .
Did we have the biggest spend in world football during the summer.

To be honest i like to think i give a fairly balanced view i don't shout x player is world class after 1 good game or y player should be sold after one bad game.
As i have said i'm not sure lvg is the manager he was i'm not sure he has been that good over the last 15 years.
i have explained why several times i don't just blindly follow and try and pretend people are doing a good job when there not.
so far i don't think lvg has done anything special, i think points and results show this.
im a united fan but i'm big enough to admit when we aren't playing well.
As soon as he is and like i have said MANY times i think he will do ok at united i will be the first to say.
but back to my op which you again had to reply to (your turning in to syd )

Im not sure lvg has a title or cl in him as pep, jose ancelotti will also be strongly backed in the transfer market and i think they are better managers.
I hope he proves me wrong

Agree4 Disagree2

Beast I think where you and i disagree is . "if we win the next 10 games", good football or not! We need wins! Arsenal play good football at times and that led to a trophy drought.

Agree1 Disagree1

mbd              

MBD - Fair enough, a win is a win. But the players we are signing are individually quality, by turning them into robots it defeats the point in paying so much for them. A robotic team (Dutch at the world cup), can do ok but are awful to watch and can be made up of mid-market players. We are signing or want to sign the best and Man Utd attack by nature, if we scrape by with wins I don't think the manager is doing the club justice for what it has invested.

That said beggers can't be choosers so getting points by hook or by crook is the most important thing short term, so you are right and maybe just getting the wins is sufficient to ensure longer term progress.

I'm sick of watching Man Utd and feeling how I do after an England game, it has been like it for 3+ years now. We need the spark back, we need to attack teams at pace again.

Agree1 Disagree0

12 Nov 2014 13:53:37
Beast,

Unfortunately I think we might have to start getting the results before the performances come mate. I would love us to suddenly just be playing great football, but that great attacking football and swagger comes from confidence, and confidence comes from winning matches.

I would take a season of poor performances but getting results IF there was an improvement in the performances next year. I think as United fans we have been used to the attacking football and getting the results but we are going to have to be patient.

I have been worrying about Fergie retiring for a long time, I kind of had in my head that once he did the United era of domination would be over and that is exactly what appears to have happened at the moment. I was enjoying every minute he was here thinking we will have some tough times once he has gone. It is actually going better than I thought now that the Glazers seem willing to spend and improve the team, so hopefully we will get some domination back in the next few years.

jred,

You once again are arguing with nobody about the whole walking on water thing. I don't think still that anybody on here has said that LVG is doing an amazing job, but you keep saying you can't understand why people think he is doing an amazing job. I have never said that and neither has anybody else.

Agree4 Disagree3

12 Nov 2014 14:52:09
to Beast and others what has Klopp turned his supposedly WC players into this season?
Mind you they are improving they climbed out of the relegation zone last week
Pellagrini is ruining ya ya and kompany they look hopeless this season
Suarez has not scored yet better sack the new barca coach
wenger should be fired for making ozil average.

Things take time be patient none of the above are now useless players or coaches,
Suarez was no world beater in his first 6 months nor was ya ya. things take time especially when players have a little dip in form or mini crisis in confidence, never mind moving to a new country climate food culture all take time to adjust to.
Ronaldo was shocking in his first season at united even more frustrating than nani at times, how did evra or vidic do in their 1st 6 months?
Look at Neymar now compared to 12 months ago, he has not just become a GOOD PLAYER THIS SEASON he was always good he was adjusting.

Things take time, you make some very valid arguments but those arguments could be made for all the above to name just a few if the board took your view there would have been no ronaldo no evra no vidic no mcClair roy keane etc because none of the above were an instant success but unfortunat;ey the modern day supporter wants instant perfection instant results. The EPL is widely regarded as the toughest league to play and coasch in so it takes time to settle in, while the games name 'football' remains the same all our new players and coach have to learn a whole new way of playing. If you worked in a specific field and moved to do the same job in Berlin / madrid / rio etc and had none of the language and the whole way of doing your job was different i'm sure you would struggle to adapt instantly.
Things take time, i'm 100% confidant we will improve as time goes on and finish 2nd or 3rd in the league and will improve in bigger strides next season again. I think some of our fans are only happy when they are moaning. just aswell you don't support dortmand

Agree2 Disagree1

Gds
I love you got that one point from that whole post .
I think i explained my op, as to why i don't think lvg has a title or cl in him, but you will be blind to that as it goes against your blind faith of everything is ok.
so just in case i'm missing something what is it you disagree with ?
Infact what is it you disagree with in my opinion that SO far lvg hasn't done a great job ?

Agree0 Disagree2

12 Nov 2014 19:06:00
I don't disagree with you, we haven't been great so far, think everybody can see that, look at the league table, we aren't where we would like to be. I am saying that you keep banging the drum that everybody is saying lvg is doing a great job, and nobody is saying that, you just keep saying they are.

Agree0 Disagree0

" i don't think he walks on water or can do no wrong"

So from all the above post is this the one line that is banging the drum that everybody is saying that lvg is doing a great job ?

Agree0 Disagree1

GDS and jred
I think you both need to agree to disagree, your both been as stubborn as each other just going round in circles.
Just saying.

Agree1 Disagree0

Herbie
I agree, at the moment i can't make a post with out getting a reply of gds .
I think i have a new stalker

Agree0 Disagree0

13 Nov 2014 08:20:40
Herbie,

That's why I left it yesterday mate, we are getting nowhere, I actually agree with a lot of what jred is saying he just appears to want to use his opinion as an argument even though it is quite similar to everybody else's. Where's sydney when we need him?

Agree0 Disagree0

13 Nov 2014 10:33:05
I'd be careful GDS. I have a feeling Syd might be languishing in jred's cellar just now. Jred, mate. I agree with everything you say :)

Agree1 Disagree0

Noucamp
i did warn him

Agree1 Disagree0

11 Nov 2014 17:17:38
Rvp out of the dutch squad injured

Believable1 Unbelievable1

Hopefully we have pulled him so he can have a rest and hopefully find some form.

Agree0 Disagree0

If only he'd gone straight to meet up with the Dutch squad rather than sitting through another training session!

Agree1 Disagree0

I think he pulled up in training for the dutch.

Agree0 Disagree0

11 Nov 2014 17:03:58
Rvp out of the dutch squad injured

Believable0 Unbelievable0

11 Nov 2014 12:46:32
Whilst we all would love De Gea to remain as our number 1 for years to come, the reality is if he keeps up the level he is Real Madrid/Barcelona will come calling. It is the risk you take with buying young players from those shores and as with Pique/Fabregas ultimately they want to return eventually.
So my question is.if Valdes signs as number 2 and is at the level he was for Barcalona. would it make good business sense to allow De Gea to leave at the end of the year (for a decent transfer fee) and have a ready made replacement for free.

Believable0 Unbelievable13

No way, that would be one of the biggest steps back the club would have ever taken, if we do sell de gea, it won't be to Barca, they have ter stegen for the foreseeable, and if Madrid do come knocking I hope we replace him with another world class keeper, someone like Leno who will be top class in years to come or Lloris who's looking for out at Tottenham, without him they'd be doing far worse than they are now, he wants to go to PSG but Sirigu has been in terrific form for the past few years and is a bit of a fan favourite.

Agree3 Disagree0

He won't leave, having being athletico's number one and having ties with Athletico I can't see him wanting to go to there rivals (Madrid) and with Ter Stegan at Barcelona he won't want to be second choice.
I can't see him wanting to go to Spain that is unless he becomes unsettled. Which hopefully won't happen, he is gaining consistency and improving all the time. I hope he remains our No. 1 for atleast another 10 years.

Agree2 Disagree0

11 Nov 2014 15:27:00
Valdes even at his prime for barca was not a great keeper

Agree8 Disagree0

I don't see DDG going to Real Madrid, I really see it as unlikely. As for Vadles, he is not the keeper he once was but he would be a better back up than Lindegaard who to me looks shaky.

Agree1 Disagree0

I hope we do all we can to keep de gea I believe he will be fighting with courtois to be the best keeper in the world for a good few years. Valdes would want a large signing on fee and wages so I hope we don't even cconsider signing him. Always thought he was a average keeper in a very good team

Agree1 Disagree0

11 Nov 2014 19:22:53
I can't see him leaving for a few years yet, and think it would be a bad move for him and more importantly us if he did.
He has lots and lots of years ahead of him and seems really happy here especially with other Spaniards like Herrera and Mata here who he seems to get on really well with.
Hopefully he will stay and win a few things with us before he does decide to leave. He has been our best player this season and should be rewarded with a big money long term contract.

Agree0 Disagree0

DDG will move to Real Madrid. It's just going to happen. The only question is when. Hopefully we can hang onto him for another season or two but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him go in the summer due to his contract running down the following year.

Agree0 Disagree2

11 Nov 2014 11:11:18
Hi Ed's

Given the form Nani is in at the moment, do you think he will be recalled by MU?

Thanks

Believable4 Unbelievable2

{Ed007's Note - No.}

No. But it will definitely help us to sell him next summer.

Agree7 Disagree0

I think Vidic is more suited to a physical league like the Premier League than a tactical league like Serie A

Agree2 Disagree1

He just can't run anymore, if he can't hack Italy he wouldn't be able to hack the Prem, just look at last season.

Agree1 Disagree0

Nani won't ever play for us again I don't think other than maybe a pre season friendly. His value is going up and up though which is good news.

Agree0 Disagree0

11 Nov 2014 11:26:08
Hi guys, didn't get to see any football this weekend due to other arrangements. My question is was we really that bad ? and how did blind do at cb ?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

To summarize, they allowed us to keep the ball which we did and created no chances during the game apart from the deflected shots by mata. The passing was slow and sideways and we persisted with going out wide to an ineffective januzaj instead of playing through the middle with quick one two passing.

Blind had little to do in terms of defending.

Agree0 Disagree0

Very very bad. Blind did ok, wasn't tested, Palace just came for the draw and didn't pose much of a threat. Valencia did well against Bolasie and McNair/Blind had one bad moment between them but nothing else of note.

Our problem has been going forward all season as people are now starting to realise.

Agree1 Disagree4

11 Nov 2014 12:02:25
Strebor,

I see you got the 2 beacons of hope replying first to your post.

We weren't great, shaw has to have a special mention who was the best player on the pitch and will be a major asset against teams like that who come for a draw, his pace caused them problems and on the overlap he is fantastic.

Palace were happy to come for a draw which obviously they didn't get so in the end we did manage to break them down and hold on for a vital 3 points.

Beast, our problems this season have been at the back, lvg has changed the formation to make us stronger there and it has in turn affected the numbers we are getting forward. It is all about finding that balance now as we have so much quality going forward its scary to think what they could do. Down the page you say it is all about the results, and against palace we got the result, so make your mind up.

If we were 'very very bad' and managed to get 3 points imagine what will happen when we are 'very very good'. Exciting times to be a red.

Agree7 Disagree5

Thanks for the reply guys, 3 pts was always a must this weekend for me, which was made more important by everyone else results around us. a good win at the emirates on saturday we'll hopefully start to kick on a bit

Agree3 Disagree0

GDS2 - No I say the most important thing at this stage is the performance, that is what has concerned me all season. Results are obviously very important and should come once we start playing better and as a team, (Palace didn't come for anything other than a 0-0 and they almost got it).

For the players we have we have looked very poor going forward all season aside from a QPR game who came to not get thrashed and Leicester for 45mins.

I do agree with you that this poor showing going forward has a lot to do with our poor defence. BUT wasn't the general consensus on here that we would outscore anybody so it wasn't as vital as it normally would be? Obviously LVG has compromised our great attacking potential to turn our defence from a 3/10 to a 5/10. Our attack could be 10/10 instead its a 4/10.

He has failed to balance it, not you or I.

Agree3 Disagree5

We've had lots of games like this even under Fergie. The most important was not to concede. We have 4 CB's who are injured, so the manager could not go gung ho at them and had to try to balance the team.
We won 1-0 and got 3 points, so he must have done something right!!

Agree2 Disagree0

Nomidfield finally someone has said it, if anyone else in the league had 4 cb's out I think they'd be doing as bad if not worse than us, who's Chelsea's 4th choice cb? Liverpools? Arsenals? They're down to bare bones as it is with 2 cb's out and look how they're struggling.

Agree1 Disagree0

The point is why are we down to bare bones? He didn't solve the problem during the summer that everyone in football knew we had. Why didn't he buy Vlaar for cheap or keep on Rio, they are better than sacrificing our whole attacking game.

Agree1 Disagree8

11 Nov 2014 14:29:05
Beast,

We have sacrificed our attacking game for one match, you seem to get too bogged down in the last match and forget the bigger picture. We will have players back from injury (or even buy someone in January if LVG has had enough) and when we do then we can start going a bit more gung ho. It is not as easy as just 'buy vlaar', he was unlikely to want to come and be 5th choice.

Agree4 Disagree4

GDS2 - We have only played attacking football against QPR and briefly against Leicester - both relegation fodder. The rest we have really struggled to breakdown if they allowed us possession or have been cagey affairs. Where was our attacking play against Chelsea, City, WBA, Swansea, Burnley, Sunderland, MK Dons, Everton & West Ham? All of those games we didn't create nearly enough for the players we have in our team - they are not being utilised properly.

I am basing my views on the entire season, not just the inept display against Palace mate.

Agree1 Disagree5

It was a stinker of a game but we got 3pts. We had a makeshift defence and struggled through, bit disappointed in certain star players not makig this 'their game' but its a win.

Didn't fill me with confidence but let's look forward. A draw, or win, at Arsenal would be excellent and then 2 winnable home games. we could take 7-9 points from those 3 and we'd be right in the mix.

We will never be perfect until we sign a worldclass leader for CB. But hopefully we can keep plugging away and take advantage of our immediate rivals being similarly inconsistent.

Agree1 Disagree0

Blind was terrible not only his defending but his passing aswell Mcnair was great getting forward and good passing Shaw and Valencia had great games albeit against a weak team Carrick was tidy in his passing but Fellani Januzai and Rvp really offer nothing Rooney dropped deep so couldn't get a hold of the game and i think Di Maria was carrying and injury Mata when he came on was prepared to run at the defence and was tidy with his passing aswell

Agree0 Disagree1

11 Nov 2014 18:18:10
Beast Rio clearly was past it last season and vlaar is nowhere near good enough, would have been a waste of money.

I think your being unfair on pinning it all on van gaal. He handed over his list of targets to woody and woody got rojo. Hummels didn't want to move and based on latest rumours would prefer the 'glamour' of London. Benatia wanted Bayern, and Wenger refused to discuss vermaelen. Apart from garay, a player linked to us for the last few years and a player both fergie and moyes passed on, who else was available?

Personally I think we could have moved for Indi martins or de vrij but that's more young players without the experience and could have blocked McNair and Blackett.

Agree0 Disagree0

MrE - If you have a bad illness without a 100% cure available do you:

A - wait for the perfect cure to come to market without any guarantees of a date and just suffer until that date arrives (if it does).

B - Take some partial measures to minimise the suffering so that you at least don't crumble whilst waiting

Money wasn't a problem, so Vlaar, Hangelaand basically any experienced CB who can lead would have meant we didn't have to sacrifice our team structure for one failing. We have stunted the team cohesion, formation experience etc, because we are weak at the back, this could have been avoided until the ideal players are available. A third of the season wasted.

Agree0 Disagree0

We did it with Blanc, Larson for example.

Agree0 Disagree1

11 Nov 2014 21:15:06
And? Two old guys who wanted one last pay day in England and neither blanc or Larsen could be termed a huge success.

Nobody last season wanted vlaar, one decent world cup later you want him here? You slate Evans, smalling and jones for always being injured. Yet would want vlaar whos missed how many games through injury?

Hangeland? Really?

As I said I would personally have gotten in either martins Indi or de vrij, young, knew the coach, not pricy to be a stop gap. Not aging players either past it or not good enough. Or even garay.

Agree1 Disagree0

Even Miranda mr e

Agree0 Disagree0

I'm just using them as examples. What I am saying is you don't have to ignore the problem, you can partially solve it if you are Man Utd with a pot of gold. LVG ignored the problem and as a result we find ourselves no further along in the process than what we were after pre-season. If we had a stable Centre back, we would have developed the cohesion and not sacrificed our attacking talent. We have only been attacked twice properly this season so Vlaar, Hangeland, even Rio would have been perfectly fine for a 4month -12 month window until potential primary targets become available and very cheap.

They would have been useful stop gaps so we could outscore opposition rather than sneaking draws or odd goal wins - plus added experience/leadership which is lacking.

Whats done is done, but this situation should have been easily avoided.

Agree0 Disagree0

Im sure that some where in this big bad world there was a cb available that maybe a poster on this site wasnt aware off

Agree1 Disagree0

12 Nov 2014 13:27:31
Agreed jred but I'm not sure how beast can say he chose to ignore it. We have little to no knowledge of transfers that go on. Just because we didn't sign one doesn't mean we didn't try. We just have no evidence either way. For all we know him and woody were sat there going through the search engine in football manager banging out phone calls and getting rejections.

Agree0 Disagree0

Mre
I agree but we also don't know that non where available like you keep saying

Agree0 Disagree0

12 Nov 2014 23:36:43
That's the point though. We don't know. We only know of the public ones: Rojo, hummels, vermarlen, benatia, garay. We don't know if anyone else was looked at, enquired about etc. The fact we only signed rojo suggests there wasn't much available. We can only go on established facts as were wasn't there to see everything. Rather than coming out with definitive claims of it was ignored. I don't think it was and I expect it to be sorted quickly.

Agree0 Disagree0

10 Nov 2014 22:39:36
Ed's probably a silly one but is there anything in the Vidic rumour?

Thanks

Believable2 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I don't know of any Vidic rumours.}

11 Nov 2014 11:06:36
With all due respect to Vidic, if he isn't good enough for Inter (in a pretty poor league if you ask me), he ain't good enough for us.

Agree2 Disagree0

With very little speed in the Italian league he manages to give away penalties and he is just not fast enough

Agree0 Disagree0

11 Nov 2014 02:42:55
Its baffling that the last FA cup we won was back in 03-04 and the last final we reached was 06-07.

Its about time we took the competition more seriously and try to win this trophy this season.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

LvG needs to go all out and try to win the Fa Cup. Its our only hope for sliverware this season.

Agree0 Disagree0

It has been a while but in all fairness in recent years we have received some tough teams in the draws in the early rounds. Utd always seem to draw Prem teams.

Agree0 Disagree0