Manchester United Banter Archive March 12 2014

12 Mar 2014 22:38:44
Wrote of Muniain down the page, I think he is worth the risk as he is the sort of player that could blossom. Equally he could flop - I was impressed with him though when he played against us. But I for one would like to see him come in if players such as Reus are unnatainable. We had scouts at a recent Bilbao game, press think that it was for him but if could quite as easily be for Muniain, Laporte of Ibai Gomez.

What does everyone think of Muniain.

Has the quality and arrogance of a top top player but not sure if he has the discipline to take it any further than being a Nani type player, flashes of brilliance but nothing more. Unfortunately this is how I see young Revel turning out.

The attitude is the thing that can make a player either a top player or a flop - look at the talents that have fallen by the way side - Quaresma and Freddy Adu to name two. But with DDG and Mata here he could settle in well. If other targets aren't available then I think he is a good shout - by no means a safe option, but the gamble could pay off.

Freddy Adu was a 16 year old in a 25 year olds body, that's all, he was just over developed for his age

12 Mar 2014 18:05:03
To clarify my post below IMO When building a modern day squad player versatility is key. All of the really top sqauds are relatively tight in terms of really regular 1st team starters, and the one thing they all have in common is 3 or more players who can play at the very highest level in 2 or 3 different positions. I believe players like llanna, and santon would play most weeks and would provide really top class cover for a wide variety of positions without them being 1st choice for any of them.
If Santon were to sign we would have a denis irwin type 8 outta ten every week raf plays 25 league games max per season 25 for shaw at 18 would be perfect leaving 26 for santon, this allows for tactical swith or purely rest to prevent injury, its ideal for squad rotation and keeping players fresh, no egos dented nobody is ever dropped assuming they all play to their level its a great way to go. Barca do similiar with adrainno covering alvez and alba. Despite the obvious advantage of top class cover for all the reasons above it would mean we don't have a top class player being unhappy due to a lack of football which enhances squad harmony.

In the case of LLanna he can play wide fantastically well on either side he can play a box to box midfielder very well and as a no 10 very well and has a decent goal return and is rarely injured so him with 3 others such as mata Januzai, and kagawa and or a sanchez/griezman gives you great options without weakoning the team in anyway.

Getteing llanna and shaw as a pair would also ease the transition for both

IMO 40m + buttner and a pick from cleverly/young/valencia would be a great investment and perhaps too good for southampton to turn down and would save the club money in the long run by ensuring we are not exposed in several positions

di maria has found his flexability and his ability to play several positions has got him very regular first 11 football (4th top for appearances this season) happy player now happy club they get to rest and have top cover for isco ronaldo bale with a real high level performer covering and as a result plays as often as they do.

Pep has found lahm to be a top top holing midfielder as well as being the best left and right back in the world and muller? plays either side, or as a 10 or right up top. would muller be in anyones 1st world 11? prob not but he plays more than most for the best club side in the world

Players like these help keep 1st 11 standards at all times thep keep the wage bill down by ensuring cover for a variety of positions. they are worth their weight in gold
in the late 90's scholes / beckham/ giigs/ irwin ronnie johson were all capable of playing at the highest level in 2 or more positions and always played. blomquist for example played a lot but was never 1st choice. others include p neville, o shea, in the current squad really only Jones gives us that sort of option and you could make a case for smalling or nani but IMO I think none of those provide top class cover outside their preferred position and indeed never mind cover all 3 of those still have a lot to prove in their preferred position. In our 90's early noughty's squads we had a lot less dead wood and a tighter knit starting 11 that more often than not was chosen from 16/17 players backed up with youth and or long serving top class pros who realized their best was behind them but staying at utd as a squad player was more important than chasing the green or feeding an over inflated ego. I think fletch and carrick possibly rooney will stay till the end now, fit this bill and will stay to mentor their replacement and the next generation of United player as rio has done.

llanna and shaw are 2 players that will be the corner stone of the next english euros and wc 2018 teams and have come through one of the countries finest youth academy's Shaw is a nailed on superstar and Llanna at the very worst will be high class and could be top class.

Reasons not to sign them and santon? I can't think of any and the reasons to sign them are compelling 1)wc potential positional expert and 2 others covering 5 positions with a high level of expertise in each position makes a lot of sense to me
Ken

{Ed004's Note - Lallana* good post though}

Well I can't see the Lallana Hype he's a decent player no more if as we hope we sign 2 world class CM's and a Griezmann type player He's really not needed. Santon would be a reasonable LB and RB cover but hardly first choice. I really do get what your saying I just think most utility players happen accidentally i.e. players you already have with versatility. Paying 10m ( Santon ) for cover may indeed be cost effective, maybe your ahead of your time.

I don't think that Lallana is what we need unless he had a James Milner esque role here.

Ken, nice post, I do love that you think Lallana is spelt like a llama, I nearly commented below, made me chuckle.

12 Mar 2014 12:37:01
A reply to Mick's exceptional post down below - a brilliant read!

I must say that I thoroughly agree with most of what was said. The tactical theory is excellent and the analysis of the roles spot on. However, I am still so undecided as to whether RVP will be here next year and as to whether Rooney and RVP will ever work as a partnership. So far I don't think they have, much for the reasons that you have already given. Rooney for me is more of a false 9 in the sense that he likes to be up top but he drifts deep a lot in search of the ball - this for me is a dilemma as two many times will we not have anyone in the box. Having said that, Rooney's rate of return when he was the main one was very good.

Would Mata behind Rooney work? For me, no, simply because Rooney doesn't like to go up against the centre backs physically. He needs someone to make space for him, this is something that RVP doesn't do as he himself is not a physical player who does al ot of running to drag players out of position. This is why Rooney and Tevez worked so well - they made space for each other.

The way I see it, we have a number of options. We manage to bring in Cavani to replace RVP, for me this partnership works better as Cavani will create more space and hold up the ball better. This is my preferred option as we would have Rooney, Mata and Januzaj behind the new man. Secondly, we buy someone like Sanchez and then have Januzaj right, someone like Sanchez left with Mata through the middle.

What I am getting is, we either need a more powerful forward that drags people away from Rooney, or we need an explosive winger like Ronaldo was. Both options don't include RVP in them. In terms of attractiveness I would sell RVP and buy what I like to call a half winger that basically plays through the middle and runs at players (Sanchez, Reus etc).

I think ultimatley RVP will go, I don't think he is happy and Moyes favours Rooney which puts RVPs nose out of joint because he doesn't get to play how he wants to.

Fresh, I agree with most of what you said except one. I believe Rooney can play as a number 9. He has everything needed to do so. His finishing is top notch, his movement in the box exceptional, he is strong ( not Grant Holt strong, but strong nonetheless ).

The only problem with him being up there, is that he does like to drop back sometimes in search of the ball. Such role will diminish, but we would still need him to do so, in order to drag defenders out of position, thus making space for Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj ( whoever else we bring in, personally hoping for Draxler, Reus and Sanchez in that order ) to run into.

Such a movement would drag their fullbacks with them, and even if they manage to catch up to them, a space is created for our full backs to run into and cut the ball back.

But I do think that Cavani would be a magnificent signing. His physicality, ability on the ball, pace and pretty much every single one of his attributes are great to have. Unfortunately, I see him costing no less than 60 million pounds. So if we do buy him, along with a central defender, left back, central midfielder and maybe even a winger, we're talking about a 150 million outlay, bare minimum.

And if Moyes proves himself incapable of winning with such a squad, we would need a new manager. The new manager would have a pretty good team to work with, but he would have his own ideas, his own targets, and we cannot spend 200 + million in the space of 12 months, especially since we just got Mata and Fellaini for about 65.

The whole Moyes failed experiment would have ended up costing a good 300 million, and the Glazers are way too intelligent ( in financial matters ) to allow things to get that costly.

I don't think Moyes favours Rooney at all. I think he just wants to keep his best players and that's why he fought to keep Rooney. Don't forget what Moyes said about Rooney being Van Persie's sidekick. That if Van Persie was injured Rooney could fill in for him. let's not forget that Van Persie has started EVERY time he has been fit and has played as the out and out striker. And let's not forget that as soon as Rooney signed his new deal he moved straight back into the hole. I don't think Moyes wants to sell RvP and I don't think he will.

People forget that RvP is a nasty f****r, something Rooney lacks. Sure he can kick-out or go into a challenge strongly, but he doesn't deal with defenders like Shawcross who will bully him in matches. RvP likes to get stuck in and Rooney will benefit from this. I think a run of games and they should form a partnership as good as it looks on paper.

Mick, of course Rooney can play as a number 9 and he would score several goals from that position, but he isn't as good as Van Persie and we would be weaker with Rooney upfront. Rooney is better behind the main striker, Van Persie is best as the main striker. It's simple really.

Sydney

I think it's past it now. It's funny as had SAF stayed we would be rooneyless possibly with mata behind and a far happier team with easily pointed out areas of weakness.

Instead we have a reinstated Rooney, king of the pile financially, allot of players nose out of joint and question marks over personnel, tactics and who will be aching where. And that's before we start on the manager haha

I think most people are forgetting that when Rooney was at top as number 9 and scored over 30 goals it was during the seasons we didn't win the league 1st season he was top scorer Chelsea won double the the next time he reached 30 goal mark was when Citeh won the league

Fresh not sure why you want to play sanchez on the left when he plays and excels on the right for barca, Chile and formally udinese where is spent a long period playing center forward. I have seen him play left for barca on occasion but he was a lot less effective?

Ken, I like the idea of a very flexible system. I was using Sanchez as more of a 'type' of player that we need rather than the actual one. I really want to see someone in the Ronaldo mode who dazzles with step overs but also has an end product.

In reality we will keep RVP and Rooney will play behind, all depends on the midfield improving.

Mick, I know what you're saying. In reality, RVP and Rooney will stay and feature in the same team - hopefully if they get games together they will gel. I think that we need to put our efforts into signing 4 players, a centre back, left back, central midfielder and attacker. Based on what the ed's of said it's looking like it could be Mangala for centre back, one of Gundogan, Kroos or Carvalho, either Shaw or Bernat for left back and then a winger. I don't think the winger will be a top top player like Reus, Draxler or Sanchez. I think it will be someone like Arda, Gaitan, Hermann - someone like that.

I wonder you know, if players like Reus and Sanchez are unavailable and my top choice Griezmann chooses PSG whether Muniain would be a good option? A hard worker with fast feet and the ball really does stick to him.