Manchester United Banter Archive May 12 2014

12 May 2014 22:49:08
Syd
After our convo on where lvg might play rooney and mata I have just read an interview lvg gave on how the dutch will play at the wc.
When questioned on midfield he said you need 2 box to box cm like strootman and frey who are intelligent and can adapt to allow the creative player to play.
Asked if this means sneijder or van der vart would play on the flank he said, no these players make the play and must play where they are at there best both won't normally play in my system

I'm not convinced Rooney should be in the same bracket as Mata and WS in terms of creativity from deep. If WR stops trying to be Roy of the Rovers he could be a better centre forward than he is now, and he's decent now. I also think he could play "from wide" on the rare occasions both he and RVP are fit. Exciting times for next season if we get centre back and centre mid sorted.

Sorry I didn't reply earlier, went bed early last night. Very interesting indeed. Will be interested to see who he brings in, I know you are no fan and his injury is very questionable, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Strootman at MU. If he wasn't injured I'd say it would be a certainty. So if this info is correct, Rooney or Mata will play in the Sneijder role. Kroos & who in the other roles? Vidal would be nice.

Personally Sydney I think Strootman will certainly be chased. He is meant to be fit by August so we could ease him in. If we are playing three in the middle I think it will be Kroos and Strootman with either Mata or Rooney in front. If we buy a winger then it will be the new winger and RVP with either Mata/Rooney or Januzaj as the third attacker. If we buy two wingers then I think Rooney may be gone.

Fresh
I would be amazed if rooney left a few month after he has just signed a new contract it makes on sense

12 May 2014 22:20:36
Rio and vidic gone, who will come in, garay, hummels,, subotic, mangala, surely two of these have to come!

12 May 2014 22:12:39
How is it that Chelsea announce out of the blue that they gave signed Costa, yet it takes our club weeks and months before finally losing the player?

We used to do business that way too (Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves, Tevez in a short space of time rings a bell) and remember Costa has been linked in the papers for months. I imagine Atletico are annoyed at the leak, they have a couple of big games coming up.

I have been reading Costa-Chelsea for ages in most main stream sources albeit not to the same level that our targets are hyped. We are just paranoid and everything is blown up for Utd, plus Shaw is English so the media go mad for it.

It like Llanna for Liverpool.

12 May 2014 21:22:08
I am all positive about the elder statesman leaving aka Evra, Vidic and Rio but that is a huge outgoing in our defence. I am hoping it is Woodward etc going all out to bring in top players that will stay for years like Shaw but if we miss out on a few of our targets we will only have Jones, Evans and Smalling with maybe Keane and that worries me and then Buttner as our only left back.

I can't believe everyone is forgetting Rafael! The passion he has for the game and more importantly United is unreal! remember him standing up against Tevez after he spoke about the great SAF? only downside is keeping fit.

REDSTER

12 May 2014 20:47:00
Rio will not be offered a new contract and will leave the club. Thanks for the memories, what a graceful and defender. He, Vidic and Evra will be missed, even though they are all on the downward part of their careers. Shame that all 3 are leaving the same time.

I think the decision should have been made before the Hull game so that fans could have said goodbyes to him.

You would think we will go all out for a top notch central midfielder now. Vidic & Ferdinand gone, I think we will push for a Hummels or Mangala. City hot faves to get Mangala and Barcelona want Hummels, but we will need to go out and get a top CB now. Who will it be?

Have any clubs previously expressed interest in him this season?

The best club level CB partnership in the world right now is Hummels and Subotic. If we can't get Hummels I wouldn't say no to Subotic. Martinez, Godin and Garay wouldn't be bad signings either.

Im happy but I expected maybe Rio to stay another year as back up to the younger lads and to help the new guys settle in as an experienced head. We need serious investment now and quickly. I would like to see Mangala/Varane, Shaw, Kroos, Meuller, Moura and Carvalho.

Still think Subotic is worth a shout at Dortmund though obviously they won't let both him and Hummels go. Money talks though and we seemingly have plenty to spend. Hopefully lol.

Benatia would also be a quality addition. Hummels would be my first choice, Garay second then Benatia.

Mangala is still pretty young and inexperienced. We need someone in their peak to get a good balance.

I really rate subotic and I would agree him and hummels are as good as it gets but he will have to prove he has fully recovered from his cruciate

Vidic, Fedrinand and Evra have been great for Utd over the years. I want to remember them all as legends, which I do, thus I am glad that they are all leaving at the end of this season.
Rio and Vidic are injury prone and have both struggled with the pace of the game. Evra has still got forward but then can't get back. The result has been that Utd's defence has played deep while leaving big holes behind the full backs.
Anway enough of the negativety as I will remember the good times with these players.

As has been stated on here on numerous occasions Utd need to bring in 5 players and it is likley that this is their intention.
As Ed has stated it is likely that we are going for a LB, CB, 2 CM's and a possible wide player.
In getting 7/8 players to leave/retire then thsat will provide space for the new signings along with some of the young players inclu have been on loan to come back into the squad.
I don't pretend to know the detail of Utd players wages but is is possible that the wage bill can be kept within its current limits.
Excited and hopeful of a new era at Utd.
Sure there will be ups and downs as that is the utd way!

Cant see us paying the silly money being quoted for mangala quotes of 35mill are crazy for a centre back

John - No crazier than 27m+ for Shaw or 30m for Rio; the latter took place before transfer prices got crazy as well.

I'm more under the impression barca want luiz than hummels don't they, if not what about Vertongan for us

Rio was older and proven top class. But I think any top player now is going to cost £25mil+, that is why we have gone backwards in recent years because we have been sniffing with the Arsenals in the £15-£20mil range.

Any English player that looks good will cost the same as a foreign player that is proven to be good, always the way. £30-£40mil now for world class and that's only if other clubs aren't sniffing.

The boy from Ath Bilbao will be a great player and better than most of the guys mentioned.

{Ed004's Note - Laporte?}

12 May 2014 20:04:03
Sydney, you wouldn't play Gerrard if all was fit? am sorry but you're just being ridiculously bias, a midfield of Gerrard(holding), Henderson and Wilshere is clearly England's strongest midfield, with either Lallana or Barkley playing behind the striker(s).

Gerrard has been absolutely immense for Liverpool since playing in the holding role.

If I was being biased then why did I say I'd play Sterling?

Do you even watch football?

Henderson is dreadful and probably won't even get any game time so they should take somebody else

Has he really now Plymouth? Cast ure mind back 8 weeks or so ago, many of your fans i'd go as far to the majority of your fans wanted him fazed out in favour of lucas and Henderson I recall.
He will start he's captain, but to come on here and call out syd when you yourself are being bias is laughable mate.
Remind me who when it really mattered made the mistake that has cost u ure holy grail? Remind me who it was smashing 60 yard Hollywood balls when a calm patient approach was needed.
Sure he's good at kissing cameras and will score the odd screamer here and there that reminds us of Gerrard of old, but when it really matters he becomes Stevie Me wanting the glory almost expecting it too.
He lacks tatical discipline to play that role at international level and against other top midfielders will get exposed.

That is not a anti Liverpool comment but what I really believe, whilshire and Barkley is by far the best partnership for England and that will also allow sterling to play where he's most effective too.

12 May 2014 21:37:09
He hasn't been immense at all. The idea of holding midfielder is to assist and help the defence. the defence that cost you the title! Steve Gerrards time has been and gone and I agree with Sydney! Let's go with youth and avoid any slip ups during crucial games ;)

Henderson before lallana or Barkley? You're not biased are you Plymouth? lol

How can you have Wilshere and Henderson alongside Gerrard then play one of Barkley or Lallana behind the striker?! Unless you play 3 in defence which will never happen.

This won't be popular but I think gerrard has played well this year, br has found a role that suites him .
I would play him jack lallana rooney sterling and strurridge .

CTR, it was before Christmas Liverpool fans wanted him dropped, when we beat Spurs 5-0, and rightly so he wasn't performing that great up until his role change, so it's quite a few weeks longer than 8, Barkley and Wilshere are completely different players to Gerrard, you're telling me you'd play an offensive midfielder in a holding role? am glad you're not England's manager.

Raymundo, Henderson is dreadful? he'll be one of the first name's on the England team sheet, he's became indispensable to Liverpool due to his unrivaled work rate, the lads the future Liverpool and England captain, he clearly isn't dreadful.

Who would you guys play in the DM role then, seeing as Gerrards the only player Roy's took, playing an offensive midfielder in the DM role will be a calamity.

Jred - Same I would play 4231 with Wilshere and Gerrard behind Lallana, Sterling and Rooney behind Sturridge.

OT7, Lallana/Barkley behind the striker

Ozwald, 3 man midfield with a CAM and 2 strikers, you need some math lessons fella.

You think we'd go without wide men? Roy Hodson? You're the one who needs lessons mate

Lol Plymouth Wilshire is box to box for england and i'm sure Barkley will be deployed as he is for Everton.
Far from over offensive dnt u think, but hey since you can't get over this ill humour u.

What on earth was I thinking? Of course a 33 yr old midfielder that cracks under pressure who no longer has the engine to get up and down and loves to hit 10 Hollywood passes a game (who care if only 1 finds the target) he can lead this new look england team!
U my friend are silly and bias towards ure own players.

Plymouth, you think Henderson will be Liverpool and England captain?! England must be struggling if he's the captain of the future.

Henderson has been top class this season. It is no surprise that their fall came when he was banned for 3 games. He and Ramsey have been phenomenal when playing and would be perfect for Utd as BBM.

I would definitely go with Gerard and Henderson in midfield for the world cup. As much as I don't like Liverpool they have been brilliant this season. Johnson was their weak link all season and I hope he doesn't feature for us.

12 May 2014 19:24:56
Sydney

Arsnal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool are better teams and better players. We are grossly old, slow and our strikers don't show up against big teams in big matches and need to clean out and bring in new players.

God Created United

Agree with GCU x

Rooney
Arsenal - 29 appearances - 12 goals - 7 assists
Chelski - 31 appearances - 9 goals - 3 assists
City - 25 appearances - 11 goals - 1 assist
Total - 85 appearances - 32 goals - 11 assists

Van Persie
Arsenal - 4 appearances - 3 goals - 0 assists
Chelski - 19 appearances - 6 goals - 0 assists
City - 13 appearances - 2 goals - 0 assists
United - 13 appearances - 4 goals - 2 assists
Total - 49 appearances - 15 goals - 2 assists

Chico
Arsenal - 4 appearances - 0 goals - 1 assist
Chelski - 13 appearances - 8 goals - 1 assist
City - 5 appearances - 0 goals - 1 assist
Total - 22 appearances - 8 goals - 1 assist

Welbeck
Arsenal - 4 appearances - 2 goals - 0 assists
Chelski - 7 appearances - 1 goal - 1 assist
City - 10 appearances - 1 goal - 0 assists
Total - 21 appearances - 4 goals - 1 assist

Combined totals - 177 appearances - 59 goals - 15 assists.

Rooney's stats aren't too bad considering where he plays - but the rest are pretty poor (apart from Chico against Chelski, of course!).

Stop it

There you go again and trying to get on my good side

12 May 2014 17:38:01
Whilst it is not United related, I would just like to say how pleased I am with the England selection. Aside from major tournaments I must admit that International football is nothing more than a pain to me. But I have always enjoyed the World Cup. It's a great chance for players like Barkley, Sterling, Shaw etc to shine - I hope that they all get their chance because its the most excited I have been about an England squad for some time.

Quiet like it myself being Irish I have to shout for someone so with the selection it will be England

Glad we have gone towards youth and not before time. Nobody expects England to get out of the group so could cause a shock.
Hope so.

Maybe one day Paddy, maybe one day!

I'm not. I like England's national team, and I would like them to do well ( except if they are facing France, of course ) but as a footballing nation, England will never achieve anything until they do a Spain/ Germany and have a team or 2 dominate the starting 11

The players in the national teams are rivals. They do not know how to play together, and each one is out for himself.

In the last 20 years, we've pretty much had world class written all over the squad.

Ferdinand and Terry were 2 of the best central defenders in the world and only the likes of Maldini would be considered a step above. Neville and Cole at fullback are magnificent players.

Scholes is was one of the nest players in the world, no player was able to push a team forward like Gerrard, and Lampard is in all likelihood the most intelligent football player I've ever seen.

Andy Cole, Teddy Sheringham and Alan Shearer are a strike force that would make any coach rubbish his pants. Add to that a world class David Beckham, and you've got an idea of the quality that came through.

But the problem is, some play for Newcastle, some play for Liverpool, some for Southampton, some for United, some for Chelsea and it goes on.

These players have no clue how to play with each other. They will always try and overdo one another. There is no team cohesion, much like Tottenham this season.

Add to that other variables, including bad managers, difference between world football and the more physical premier league, ridiculously bad penalty shootouts, and you have your answer.

The current England squad has the same problem. You've got players from Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool and Southampton who have no idea how to perform together. A relatively average coach, and still a tangible difference in refereeing between the premier league and international football make up for the rest.

The current England NT has the same problem of those of the past, just not the upside. Ill stick my head out and say no current England player would get into the 2004 England national team. Gerrard is significantly worse than he was, and no other midfielder is fit to lace Scholes' boots.

Neville vs Johnson : Neville
Terry vs Jagielka : Terry
Campbell vs Cahill : Campbell
Cole vs Baines : Cole
Gerrard 04 vs Gerrard 14 : Gerrard 04
Scholes vs Henderson : lol
Beckham vs Lallana Beckham
04 Rooney vs 14 Rooney : 04 Rooney ( yes, I take the teenager over the overpaid overweight Rooney we have now )
Own vs Sturridge : Owen
Lampard vs Lampard : young Lampard.

That's without Rio, Butt, carragher and Hargreaves who would walk into the current side.

England's national team is average and lacks cohesiveness, in the past it just lacked cohesiveness

I'm the same Paddy! I follow English football religiously so it's only right to shout for England whenever we aren't in it. so every year really!;)

Mick, you say that the players are rivals. Are they not rivals for Spain? Half play for Barca and the rest for Real or Atletico - that's a team that really shouldn't do well based on that logic.

Fresh, when Spain started winning, it's fair to say most of the players in the starting 11 were Barcelona players. Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro, Pique, Busquets, Puyol ( recently Alaba and Busquets ) were the spine of the team. Add to that a couple of Real Madrid players ( Alonso and Ramos ) and some outsiders.

But it was mostly Barcelona.

In Germany, you have Bayern Munich, Kroos, Muller, Schweinsteiger, Gotze, Boateng and Lahm. They are starters. Germany have a solid Bayern based spine. They have a couple of Dortmund players in Schmelzer and Hummels, and a couple of Madrid players

But again, mostly Bayern.

Brazil is the exception that proves the rule imo, but it's fair to say that when you have the likes of Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Kaka, Cafu, Carlos and co, you can't really go wrong. Add to that a flair inspired football, heavily relying on individual brilliance ( and boy did they have it ) is not really the English way

In England, it's much more dispersed. You struggle to see a certain spine of the team. This year, there will be a lot of Liverpool players in there ( Gerrard, Henderson and Sturridge are likely to start when fit ) but it is hardly a Liverpool spine.

I don't think it can be corrected. I just don't see how a national team without a solid, club based spine, can have the necessary balance and understanding needed in order to compete at the highest level.

It was quite clear that simply taking big names and putting them together ( Scholes, gerrard, Lampard ) will under perform.

Mick you do make a good point, I hope however that with the inclusion of players such as Shaw, Lallana, Barkley etc they will relish the big occasion and get carried away without any thoughts of being selfish and glory hunting.

Obviously that doesn't change the fact that a lot of them haven't played together so they won't known each others game but if the spirits are high and they put in the effort, hopefully you get a half decent result.

Mick, the main reason for the problems you rightly highlight is that England never have a settled team.

Also, players played out of position doesn't help.

England don't have a recognised system of play either.

Add this all together over a period of many years and its no wonder individually excellent players struggle to come together as a team when they play for England.

I think we have an excellent set of young players and the best thing Hodgson could do is decide on his best team, put them in a system which suits there strengths and play them consistantly.

After the world cup he's also got to work out who will replace Gerrard anchoring the midfield. That's going to be difficult because I can't think of one young English player who stands out in that position.

12 May 2014 16:53:01
Marco Reus Ruled Out ManUtd Move!

Staying At Dortmund extra season :(

Quote unconfirmed. If he is so keen to stay why does he not sign the new contract offer that is on the table?

12 May 2014 15:54:43
just seen a very depressing stats table for the full premier league, it gives the points for 2012-2013 season and the points for 2013-2014.it then places the teams in order of difference in point swings, we finished bottom of the table with a swing of -25 the worst difference in the premier league.if that wasnt bad enough I now have to watch the bluenoses piling into manchester for the parade, wheres all that rain gone when its needed :)

12 May 2014 15:21:10
Hi Eds although it looks likely that we are going in for Shaw, I was wondering if you could shed some light on other defenders we might see Utd bid on this summer as it looks likely that Evra and Ferdinand are on the way out

{Ed002's Note - Everything is up in the air right now.}

12 May 2014 13:28:23
hi guys,

I just wanted an opinion on a rumour I've checked on the internet its about our interest in louis laing (cb) from sunderland. I think he is 21 yrs old and has recently been training at old Trafford according to reports.

I don't think its true but stranger things have happened and anyone that knows anything abt him could share something with us all.

{Ed002's Note - I can't help, sorry.}

Its cool ed . I was wondering if any of the regulars know anything about him.

I've heard that he has impressed during his trial period and could be offered a contract.

12 May 2014 13:41:56
well guy's looks as though Reus is off the table this summer anyway! pity, he is a talent! a sign of things to come maybe?

12 May 2014 12:43:02
Does anyone else think that negotiations with LVG have hit a bit of a stumbling block?

Although the season has just finished, I would have thought the club would have announced LVG today if a deal was already in place?

I think the club need to get this all sorted and put to bed by the end of the week, unless the club are happy to wait and are willing to go out and buy the players' needed before we get a new manager in place. If that is the case, I would be more than happy to wait for the right man to become available, as opposed to having all our eggs in one basket. For me, signing the right players' is more important that signing the right manager: A team full of quality is a team full of quality, no matter who manages it.

That is just my opinion - anyway

12 May 2014 13:30:46
The manager is the most important signing. We had a team with quality players and appointed Moyes.

So you would be happy to sign the right players and then bring back moyes?

SAF has proved that a quality manager is more important than having just quality players.

it doesn't matter how good they are individually, it is how they are managed as a group which is important.

I should imagine all details have been sorted regarding LVG, no announcement will probably have more to do with not wanting to disrupt his teams World Cup prep too much. You have to remember how big this club is globally and the media circus that his announcement would create. Just imagine how the Dutch press conferences would go, constantly being asked about how he will run the club and who he will bring in whereas now with no release he can answer a single question and it's back to questions about his WC side

It's likely it's been agreed already but there's no need to announce it. The club are probably prioritising signing targets before the WC whether they're LVG's targets or the clubs.

Wouldn't e surprised if everything is done. LVG will have given his list of targets and the club will be going for them whilst LVG focuses on the WC. Obviously LVG will not be under house arrest for the next month so I wouldn't be surprised if he is meeting agents as well. Plus with phones/Skype it isn't hard.

I think RvP's interview after the Hull game is the biggest give away that the deal for LvG is done and dusted. For the first time all season he looked happy and saying "We'll be back next year, trust me. Save this interview" He knows LvG is coming in and he's just what the players need to get back challenging.

Oxred, I am convinced Moyes' would still be manager if he had signed the players' SAF and Gill had set up.

The team would have struggled this season no matter who would have managed them. It needed a couple of new top class Centre-Midfielder's. Only SAF would have got more out of the current squad, because they were his players'.

The issue with Moyes' went beyond the results on the pitch. The guy, from day one, got everything wrong.

12 May 2014 11:55:58
Morning, guys.
I haven't posted for a long time, I left the UK at the end of March to do some travelling in Europe and, while I read the site every day, I decided to lay off the posting til I returned and this wretched season was over!

I made my mind up about Moyes early on, just before Xmas. So after Everton humiliated us at Goodison, I was overjoyed when, while enjoying a Slovenian wheat beer in the sun, I read that he'd finally been sacked. I don't like seeing someone lose their job, but the man was hopelessly out of his depth and I wanted him gone.

Season was horrendous, very few positives. I'm delighted that the Scousers failed, and am already excited about the summer activity - let's hope we get a new, proven, successful manager at the helm pronto and back him FULLY in the transfer market.

Our players were appalling this season and we need a major clear-out - we need to bring in 4-5 quality lads ready to step straight into the first team, and cut the deadwood loose.

Here's to what should be a great summer, what with the WC as well, and let's hope we get LVG or someone of a similar calibre, in ASAP. We'll be back contending for the title next season.

I agree, have a good clear out. Bring in FIVE good signings, promote some youth and with a better manager we will be better next season.

Welcome back Red_Sky, I did wonder where you had been. Thought you had followed Kloot off the cliff!

Agree wholeheartedly with your post, looking forward to a great summer and the usual influx of newbies on to the site and crazy rumours about seeing Messi at the airport in a United shirt.

"Just seen Wesley Sneijder being chucked into the back of a blacked-out van outside Manchester airport, accompanied by men in black suits holding a brief case full of money".

Good post RS, agree with you about Moyes and especially about Liverpool ;)

GDS

Haha, nah I resigned myself to a terrible season quite early on but had a strong feeling that once CL qualification was gone, Moyes would be sacked so just rode it out.

Didn't see the point in posting repetitive negativity but even after the shoddy season we've endured I see light at the end of the tunnel - looking forward to the summer banter and chomping at the bit for next season!

12 May 2014 11:07:31
Eds do you think 27 mil for shaw is abit much. I do to say he's only 18. Think he's going to be a really good player but there asking for too much.

{Ed002's Note - I really don't want to discuss money.}

If you think of the investment in terms of the number of years he could potentially be our 1st choice left back, I think the value is pretty reasonable.

Jonny659 - I think it's a bargain to be honest! He could be our LB for the next 10 plus years and with so much potential his price will only rise in coming seasons if we don't make a move now. I'm liking the urgency from United, no messing around this window, I hope it's a trend we see all summer. And we are going to have to pay a bit over the odds etc. seeing as we can't give players Champions League football

12 May 2014 13:36:21
I think its excessive for a fullback considering what they've sold other players for but given 12-15 years potential service then it balances out.

I think it's a great price. Shaw could realistically be first choice LB for next 13/14 seasons. So £2m a year for a lad barring injury who could become real class. Great price for all parties and he'll get say 80-100k pw. That's most likely quadrupling his wages. Win Win.

I reckon he'll stay as a left back for a while, but his future lies as a left sided midfielder, once he bulks up a little he could emulate gareth bale and play practically anywhere. It's a good start to the summer though, let's hope we get everything sorted before the world cup starts. I'd imagine the players who are coming in are being made aware of the new manager too, the absolute disgrace of a window last summer, will be forgotten by an awesome, exciting and reassuring window this year, can't wait.

12 May 2014 05:11:23
McLovin, what do you think Liverpool have been doing for three seasons? City aren't the only club in the league spending what they do not have. They aren't the only club failing the FFPR. Liverpool are failing them too and spending their owner's cash.
Sydney!"""
Dear mr Sydney
The fact that Liverpool have improved so much in a short period of time just shows that they are moving in the right direction with a good bunch of hard working and well coached team
They can only get better by building further
it's astounding to ngiak they are so close to man city
The fact is that chelsea are also doing an overhaul on a team that's far superior to ours
Spurs, everton, arsenal are at the moment better
The players that ngiak sees now in a Manchester United shirt do not hold a candle to these teams . Even Southampton?
The rebuilding is way belated and there is a lot to be done
Before we fall behind the decline that was Liverpool which ngiak thinks we are a whisker of reaching
Fear big fear
But time will tell and the time is now
gan

Liverpool improved from 7th place last season to 2nd place this season. HOW? Was it BR's amazing summer signings? Mignolet, Aspas, Toure, Llori, Sakho, Alberto? NO! BR is getting the best out of what he has. Just like SAF got the best out of what he had and that was the difference in us finishing 1st and now 7th. Liverpool have also had the luxury of minimal injuries and not having to play in Europe. That would have crippled them as they have a weak squad.

There are many factors that have contributed to our poor season. The major one was SAF leaving and the players not dealing with it well. Then the club employed a manager who the players were never going to respect. We have older players all leaving this summer and we have needed 3-4 top notch signings in certain areas for a while. Next season we will have a clean slate and the players will want to play for LvG. We will have strengthened the weak areas this summer and it will be a different MU.

Next season Liverpool will need to juggle Europe too and that will inevitably have an effect on the injuries and player's fitness levels. Gerrard will struggle to play Shakhtar away on a Wednesday and then Southampton away on the Saturday. Liverpool will need to buy a lot of good players this summer to be able to juggle both domestic and Europe. They will need to spend better than BR has done to date. Gerrard has escaped injury all season, as has Suarez and Sterling. We have had injury to Carrick, RvP & Rooney for long periods and at the same time. What would Liverpool do without Gerrard, Suarez & Sterling

I don't think Liverpool will improve next season. I think BR got 100% out of them this season and they made the most of not having to play in Europe, they were lucky with injuries and to do it again will be difficult. I expect them to be up there still, but I think Chelsea, City & Arsenal will be stronger than them and I think we will be stronger the season afterwards. It's all opinion and we will all have different opinions, but I will be very surprised if Liverpool emulate what they have done this season next season. Teams will now start to park the bus against them. Do they have a plan B? Will they have Suarez? Losing him would dent all their confidence.

I think five very good signings with Wilson, Varela, Keane & Powell added to the squad will be a breath of fresh air. More importantly we will have a manager who has a plan and can enforce that plan. I am looking forward to it.

Totally agree with your assessment Sydney, bang on.

They will undoubtedly have to pay big bonuses to current squad members for Europe and higher wages as well, so they could spend money they don't have next season only to be in the Europa or worse the season after. They need 5 players at least to fill out the squad but if Rodgers fails in the market and with his tactics juggling Europe and Prem - max exodus back to square one.

Next season for Liverpool is even more crucial to the club than next season for us. I think in 3 years Liverpool will be back to where they were 5 years ago. We on the other hand had a blip that will prove a major wake up call as we have been in denial for too long about our weaknesses.

I agree with nigak.
There are several teams in the epl who can put 11 better footballers on the pitch.
7th was about right and if we don't sign some top players we will struggle for top 4.
Put it this way how confident would people be if lvg came in and never made a signing?

However we should have a busy summer

Beast, I am sure where Liverpool will have to pay larger bonuses to players, Warrior will cover that as they will be paying Liverpool more in sponsorship money due to them being in the Champions League. I think Liverpool will now receive the full £25m from the Warrior sponsorship.

I don't think money is a major issue with Liverpool next season, I just think it will be difficult for them to emulate what they have done this season again next season. If we look at last season, Gerrard struggled juggling Europa and domestic. If he plays too often he gets injured.

I just cannot see them being this lucky again with injury. Sure everyone gets injured, but they never had injuries to more than one important player at the same time all season. We seen what's happened to Swansea this season after playing in Europe. It takes it's toll.

Jred, if LvG inherited the exact same squad we have now, without any players coming in or going out, I think we would finish top four no problem. I think LvG would get the best out of what he has and we know what these players can do when they are playing at their best. Look at last season. We need five very good signings to challenge for the title IMO, but I don't believe we wouldn't finish 7th next season if the squad remained the same and LvG was in charge.

We have had injury to Carrick, RvP & Rooney for long periods and at the same time. What would Liverpool do without Gerrard, Suarez & Sterling.
Sydney

Gerrard played 31, carrick 29
Sterling 30 rooney 29
Suarez 32 rvp 22

A lot closer than I was expecting

"would", not wouldn't :)

Syd
you think we would finish top 4 no problem?

Thats fine I think chelsea, city and arsenal have a better team spurs liverpool and everton are every bit as good if not better.

If we didn't buy a single player I honestly think we would struggle to make top 4.
I would be interested how many other people would agree or disagree

It's not what games they have missed over the course of the season Jred, it's what games they have missed together.

The key words there Jred are 'at the same time'.

Its still a lot closer than I expected I though carrick and rooney had missed more to be honest.

Carrick has only started 26 games this season due to injury. And some of those games he played through injury. RvP 18 starts in the EPL, we know he has played games with pain killing injections. Rooney 27 starts and has also played with pain killing injections.

But my initial point was all have been missing at the same time, could Liverpool have coped without Gerrard, Suarez & Sterling at the same time for long periods? We were missing RvP & Rooney for a while, what would Liverpool have done without Suarez and Sturridge?

At the same time of course.

Jred, yes. With a better manager this team has already shown what it can do.

We finished 1st one year ago with these exact same players. A better manager would have done better with these players. SAF proved that.

Do you think we would have finished 7th with SAF still in charge? See my point?

Carrick shouldn't come into this, he is our weak link in midfield. Everything goes through him and he has been awful. I would loved to have seen our results had Carrick been out all season. His drop in form from last season is nothing short of spectacular.

It's not important anyhow, I am merely stating that Liverpool have been lucky with injury this season and they may not be so lucky next season. More games will create tiredness, tiredness creates injury.

The thing is have Rooney or RvP ever been 100% fit this season? It seemed every time they got back from injury, they got injured again. Suarez hasn't missed a single game through injury this season. He's been banned (his own fault) but not injured.

Like you have said this season on numerous occasions, if Van Persie had no injuries like last season, then he would have scored more goals and same for Rooney. A good spend and Liverpool's luck with injuries and we will be okay.

Another thing with Liverpool is they were not even considered genuine title contenders this season initially and when they were, the pressure kicked in. Next season they will be considered genuine title contenders from the start and they will be feeling the pressure much earlier on in the season. Liverpool fans will be expecting a lot more from them and there will be no margin for error this time round.

Syd
with a better manager we of would done better than 7th.
but that is a silly way to asses a team of footballers any team would perform better with a better manager.
the year we won it i'm sure if city had been managed by fergy they would of walked the league and us by mancini would of struggled imo.

When assessing the footballers in our team compared to the teams above us I think there is a very good argument that there are better teams in the league.
Which is why I disagree with your statement we would finish top 4 no problem .
even with lvg I still think our back 4 isn't great or our cm and widemen.
when looking at the other teams in the league the year we won I still think what a good job fergy done rather than what good team that is.

Like I said imo chelsea arsenal and city have better players liverpool spurs everton are there or there about.

While we are talking about injuries if arsenal had a bit more luck and never had ozil wilshere ramsey aoc and wilshere out at the same time they would of won the league.

Also with Sterling, he never got going until December time. August, September, October & November he hardly played if at all. He made a couple last 15 minute sub appearances, but that was it. But since he has broke into the team from December onwards, he's completely avoided injury. Suarez has avoided injury. Gerrard has been very lucky too. These are key players and have had them available all season.

Where would we be now if Rooney, Van Persie & Carrick stayed injury free?

Syd
If no teams had injuries and you look at each teams first 11 on paper ours isn't that great imo

Sydney, didn't Suarez miss the first ten matches?
Patrick

City certainly have better players. Arsenal would have done better if they didn't get injuries, just like we would have done better. Liverpool would have struggled if they had ours or Arsenal's injuries. I don't think Everton, Spurs, Liverpool or Chelsea have better players. I think BR, Jose and Martinez got the best out of Liverpool, Chelsea & Everton respectively. I also think they all done well to avoid serious injury to key players. I don't think they have better players at all, I just think they are all settled, confident and all playing well as a team, much like us last season. Whereas we were not settled, not playing well under Moyes, we lost all of our confidence and we had injuries to key players and a lot of the time at the same time too.

A title winning team doesn't go from 1st to 7th in one season unless there are serious issue going on behind the scenes.

Syd
Red tinted glasses imo.
Our back 4 is average our cms are average and we aren't great out wide.

So you don't think chelsea have better players.

Cahil and terry as cb have been as good as any in the league luiz is decent .
Ivanovic, cole cesar right and left backs.
There midfield.
Lampard, matic willen, ramiers, oscar hazard to name but a few compared to carrick young clevs kagawa .

Patrick, no he didn't.

Jred, that's if you are judging the 11 players on this season's showing. If you judged the same 11 players on last season's title winning side, your opinion would be different. You will still want improvement (as I do), but you wouldn't feel this team is as bad as you feel it is now. A confident and united MU team would be better. Our 11 isn't great judging now, but if you had judged this 11 last May you wouldn't be as critical. We certainly need improvements, but the team simply haven't played good enough this season.

They can play better and they will do next season. Add five good players and some youth and a year from now we will be ready to challenge again.

Syd
We should of done better than 7 maybe .
But all the teams above us are good teams.

If you think only city has better players than us well there no point continuing the debate.
You argue its a great team but we need to buy 5?
Yet only city have better players

its red tinted glasses and the fact you think lvg would finish 4 no problem with this team and no new signings sums it up for me

Chelsea are a striker away from being a very good team.
1 player

No syd i'm not.
Im judging it on vidic is gone evra is poor fedy is about finished raf smalling jones and evans can't stay fit and aren't great players.
That why I don't rate our back 4 and why I think that other teams have a better back 4.
cm, carrick and fletcher are about finished, fellaini and clevs enough said .
Young not good enough kags done nothing toni ok nani has been poor again nothing special .

Add 5 new players? You been arguing we will finish top 4 no problem with no new signings

Syd
Last years team was finished everyone agreed we needed 5 new players last summer.
Since then other teams have imporved we haven't .

"You argue its a great team but we need to buy 5?"

When have I argued it's a great team? Please enlighten us Jred?

I have said numerous times, even last summer that we need 3-4 top notch signings. However I still believe our title winning side was good enough to finish 4th this season if we had a better manager. We have massively underperformed this season. A better manager would have done better this season. That is the point I am making. Chelsea player for player aren't that great. Neither are Liverpool and Everton. But what they do have is a good team spirit and they are playing well together. Just like we were last season.

Syd
You have argued its team capable of winning the title and that if lvg was appointed we would finish top 4 no problem with out making any signings and that only city have better players .

Sydney you are right Suarez only missed the first six matches of this season. If he had played would L'pool have accrued more points?
It's all ifs and buts.
Patrick

Jred,

Yes, on paper I would say only City have better players than us.

Yes, I believe a decent manager would get us a top four position with these players.

A decent manager won the league with these players just last season.

So come on where did I say this is a great team? I'm still waiting.

Patrick, don't know, but his suspension could have been avoided if the player wasn't a DF, unlike an injury, so it's tough titties IMO. Playing those six extra games could have made him go off the boil even earlier this season than he did, which could have effected Liverpool's results later in the season, there's simply no way of telling. Like you said it's all ifs and buts.

Syd
you have gone on and on about these players winning the league by 11 points for the last 12 month. Infact every time I have said its not a great team and it over achived last season you have disagreed .
you really think this team is better on paper than chelsea and arsenal?
im starting to understand why you argued with me that arsenal aren't title contenders or that liverpool wouldn't finish in the top 4.
or why u went on and on with we will be top by .
or even that we would finish 25 points above liverpool . Red tinted glasses

I just don't see anything special when I look at Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool or Spurs. Arsenal have a far better midfield than us with a settled defence. Chelsea have an experienced defence with Terry & Co. Mata was my favourite Chelsea player and he plays for us now. On paper only City have significantly better players than us IMO.

But it's no good having good individuals if we aren't playing well as a team. We can have the likes of DDG, Jones, Rafael, Vidic, Carrick, Mata, Rooney, Adnan, Van Persie etc, but if they aren't happy and playing well, then it means nothing. It's just a bunch of individuals running around.

Liverpool and Everton don't have much to shout about on paper, but they are happy and playing well together. When we get a manager and we start to see that there's a plan. The players will get their confidence back, they will start to show it on the pitch. When we freshen up the team and strengthen obvious weak areas we will improve even more.

Syd to be honest what happened 2012/2013 is irrelevant as several teams have improved since then and imo will continue to.
so what happened 2 seasons ago is pretty irrelevant to what will happen in the coming season
i hope we never find out but I couldn't see this team making top 4 "no problem" with out dome additions .
And like I say judging a players by the manager is a bit daft you could argue any team would be better with a better manager spurs for example.

just out of interest what would be your united back 4 and midfield for next year?

Just do the old "how many of our first 11 would get into the first 11 of our rivals".

Maybe DDG, Rooney & RVP would get into Chelsea's first 11.

City - Only DDG. Maybe RVP,

Arsenal - RVP, Rooney, Mata, DDG, Rafael.

Tottenham - Mata, RVP, Rooney, maybe Fellaini

Liverpool - Rafael, DDG, Mata, maybe RVP

Everton - DDG, Fellaini, RVP, Rooney, Mata, Janujaz

The rest it ranges from 5-8 in most cases. Pretty shocking in my opinion. It obviously all depends on how highly you rate Smalling & Jones, and I don't rate them at all compared to other centres halves for top clubs - not yet at least. Our midfield is awful, Mata & Fellaini only suit certain systems and Janujaz hasn't proven anything yet.

It doesn't paint a pretty picture for us and shows we need 5 major signings to even compete for the league.

Jred,

WE DID WIN THE LEAGUE BY 11 POINTS!

I have never said this was a great team, not even when we won the league by 11 points (which DID happen by the way). And it happened just one year ago with the exact same players.

I have never said this is a great team, all I have said is this team has underperformed this season and with a better manager, we would have performed better.

Last season is proof of this. With a better manager, we finished top of the league by 11 points. FACT! Same players, different manager! SAME PLAYERS!.!.!

What happened two season's ago?

We won the league in May 2013, by September 2013 (3-4 months later) we were a shambles. The only thing that changed in those 3-4 months was the manager and coaching staff.

This season is not a true reflection of how good our team is. This team is much better when we are not being managed by a mediocre manager like David Moyes. He was a disaster.

Do you not think with a better manager, the team would have been confident, happy, inspired and don't you think with a better manager we couldn't have gotten ourselves 13/14 more points?

With matic and ramires behind hazard oscar and willan I actually think chelsea have one of tbe best midfields in the league .
im amazed that any would could think a midfield of carrick, clevs young fletcher giggs could be better?
With the scouse gerrard and lucas suit there roles and suarez and co all have pace and skill.
Its why I thought they would finish top 4.
I wouldn't put our current back 4 or midfield a head of any of the teams in the top 4.

United could do with a few players.
Chelsea and arsenal need only 1 a good striker.
Liverpool could do with 2 defenders but will score goals with out them.
United need a few and says it all for me

Syd
But other teams have improved just because you are the best team in the league 1 year doesn't mean you are the best the following year .
Things change .
i agree with gans op.
I disagree with your opinion that only city have better players than us .and that this squad would easily finish top 4 with out additions.
Lets just leave it at that

Syd - the argument is the same the other way though mate. If Arsenal or Chelsea had had SAF last season they would have won the league by 11 points.

If you gave every team the same computerized manager playing the optimum tactics for the players available we would struggle for 4th, probably get 5th being honest. We are just so weak everywhere and even upfront we are all over the place because the players can't play together.

SAF was our 12th man and our fear factor was the 13th man - both have gone and we now see how we fair 11v11. Rubbish.

Beast, er Vidic? Vidic would get into all of those defences. Mata would get into Chelsea's team if they didn't have a manager who was anti-flair. DDG is better than Lloris. Adnan would make a few of them teams too.

Like I said City is the only team that significantly have better players.

Syd
This is my last post on the subject.
Yes with a better manager any team united included would be better.
How ever its a silly way to judge a team or players.

Even with a good manager I would still think chelsea had better players for example.

If oscar played in a moyes team and cleverly played in a jose team I would still think oscar was better.

On paper I think there are several teams just as good if not better than united.

Matic and Ramires are too slow and yellow cards will be handed out like there's no tomorrow. Matic makes Strootman look like Usain Bolt. Two very defensive midfield battlers (perfect for the Jose bus). Ramires is not great either, I like Willian and Hazard, but only because they work hard off the ball (a Jose player). Oscar is a decent player, but cannot see him staying at Chelsea long. Jose will probably sell Hazard & Oscar and bring in a couple more defensive midfielders :)

I think Chelsea are a weaker side without Mata. Such a quality player.

{Ed002's Note - Ramires is far from slow Syd.}

I always though ramires was pretty quick but I suppose when your comparing him to fletcher and carrick he will look slow.
And harzard and willian do work hard of the ball its just a shame when it comes to attacking they haven't got the skill on the ball of young and toni.
Clutching at straws syd,

Syd,

DDG has come on leaps and bounds, but Llors is a top class keeper as well. Both of them are very similar.

Mata couldn't get in the Chelsea team, it doesn't matter all this shoulda would coulda, they sold him to us because Oscar, Hazard & Willian are better and his lack of pace is so clear especially at OT where he gets overrun. Don't get me wrong he is amazing technically, but the modern game is all about pace and he is found out when it really matters - especially if you have a severe lack of pace around him. Hopefully that will be addressed this summer though so we will see the best of Mata picking out the runs of people that can be bothered to attack from midfield.

Ramires is rapid, he or Ramsey would be perfect for our BBM.

Janujaz has done very little, he has had a few good performances against weak opposition, he has massive potential, but he wouldn't get in ahead of any of those Chelsea players, nowhere near yet.

Sydney

Arsnal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool are better teams and better players. We are grossly old, slow and our strikers don't show up against big teams in big matches and need to clean out and bring in new players.

Beast, we needed to go from SAF straight to another top manager. Moyes demoralised the squad and the rows and arguments behind the scenes were crazy. The club brought in a manager that had never won a thing in his life. It was a disaster waiting to happen and it affected the team immensely and this season is proof of this. We have underperformed.

I don't believe in all this SAF was our 12th man bollox and the fear factor was 13th man. It's all codswallop mate. SAF got the best out of these players and there is no reason why another manager couldn't get the best out of them too. SAF picked the sides, he picked the tactics, but it was the 11 players on the pitch that got the results.

The players haven't changed, only the manager changed. Could someone like LVG not gotten us an extra 13 points this season? Of course he could have. I think the players could have gotten to 75 points without a manager this season. Moyes demoralised this side. He turned a league winning side into a mid-table side in less than a year.

You are right Ed he isn't slow, and he is an engine. He doesn't stop running. What I meant is it's a slow midfield with him and Matic. MU's midfield is too slow when Carrick plays.

Ed, I noticed you said the defensive targets is all up in the air at the moment, which is understandable, but like Shaw, is there any other MU targets who they will look to sign early regardless of the manager? Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - A decision needs to be made about Santiago Arias as there is now interest from elsewhere.}

12 May 2014 21:58:59
Ed02, LvG would have seen Arias as he watches Dutch football regularly so I imagine he will not need to do much thinking.

{Ed002's Note - The point is that there is interest from elsewhere.}