Manchester United Banter Archive September 12 2012

12 Sep 2012 23:14:44
We should sign Cabaye in January!

Guess who?

Jono is that you ?
Mick

Jono?

G.A.G.U.S

Michael Carrick, is that you?

Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96

12 Sep 2012 18:18:57
Lads all the talk still about clevs playing for england last night watch robbia bradys debut for Ireland last night on YouTube. Scored a cracker and 2 assists, he is also Ireland's all time under 21 scorer. Just food for thought he needs to loaned out or given a go at league cup or something but IMO he's worth a shot he is very good and could become much better
Jay-c

He will not make it at a top 6 team... He will probably end up at Sunderland or a team of that sort of calibre he just doesn't have that class,

What happens if he moved to Sunderland and O'Neill got them into the top 6. Would he be a top 6 player then?

12 Sep 2012 14:36:32
I am so glad that the truth has finally been found out for all the families of the Hillsborough disaster. I am a true Utd fan and have been disgusted by the way that it has took so long for this to come to light. All my respect to all those involved with the families and panel. Lets just hope that someone is finally held to account for this now. My deepest sympathies for all that passed away on that day. I have been watching this on sky news and am disgusted about the way that it was all covered up by the police, ambulance service etc etc

Well said mate. Fans of all clubs should unite on days like these. Such a long wait for the truth but thank god it's out at last. I'm sure this won't be the end of the fight for justice either

My thoughts are with the friends and families of those who were tragically lost

Gav

Shame on you it could have been any one of us that day
Football supporters were treated like cattle in those days. If you have nothing respectful to say about the deaths of someone's son someone's brother someone's father then say nothing. I AM KLOOT

I think you posted this comment on the wrong thread Kloot mate.

Sydney!

What you on about KLOOT? you reply to the wrong post?

JK92

RFT was replying to a post that has been deleted.

Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96

No I was replying to that tasteless person who made a very stupid comment which fortunately seems to have been removed by the eds. I'm sure those of you who read the site earlier know what I am talking about. It puts my reply in context.I AM KLOOT

Kloot was talking about a very ignorant comment that was on this thread but looks like it has been deleted.

CnM

I did see the post RFT.

Sydney! {Ed007's Note - {Ed007's Note - It should never have been posted up. Apologises to everyone over that. As for FredtheRed, to even have the balls to come back and question why I removed your post shows how much of a total wanker you must be. You have been blocked from the sites and any posts with your name on them will be deleted. No second chance, nothing. You are not welcome on these sites from now on.}

I stood on those very crammed terraces at Leppings Lane in the eighties, it could have happened to any of us but it didnt, we were lucky , we went home. I then watched , utterly sickened at the tragic events on TV 23 years ago. It seems so very long ago, a lifetime. A lifetime that 96 people had taken away from them. Then their reputations were smeared in an appalling cover up. The families of innocents, who just wanted to watch their team, have had to fight to learn the truth. A truth they were denied until today. Some of the things published today are shocking and it is hard to see how those who perpetrated the cover up could do that to the memories of innocent people to save face but now all football fans no matter who they support should ensure those 96 innocents will never ever walk alone. I support the families efforts to get justice

Red Man

I am glad fredthered was banned, I replied to him as well, people are allowed their own personal opinions but to air them in public is horrific and like kloot said it could have been any of us that day.

Thankfully the families can now hopefully have peace and can move on.

GDS

12 Sep 2012 12:25:43
I didn't think clevs had a great game last night, had long periods with out the ball gave it away a jfew times missed a couple of easy chances and then got taken off . He tried hard but I think most people would be hard pressed to find 2 great bits of play from him. But even tho his 23 you could argue his just starting out and that was only his second game for england the problem is peoples expectations have again been raised to high by some on this site. The same happened with pogba last year. At the moment clevs is a good player who needs to improve to make it to the top ( I hope he does) but there are better players out there at the moment. Jred

I think you would be lucky to find two great bits of play from any England player on the pitch last night. Still Cleverley seen more of the ball than Lampard and gave the ball away less than him yet Lampard got MOTM. WHY? Because he scored a penalty. I do not think anyone on this page raises people's expectations about Cleverley, but Hodgson and the media certainly have done by comparing him to Cesc after one game. Cleverley is a working progress who's career is just starting to take off. It's a big year for him, but I have full confidence that he will succeed at this club.

Sydney!

My opinon of Clevs is still the same. Really good little player, but will never be of the level of Scholes. I see him as being the Carrick of our team in a few years - playing more often than not, but never setting the world on fire.

RED_SKY

RED_SKY, I would take that mate. A very good player who doesn't reach the heights of Scholes'. IMO no one other than Iniesta and Xavi is at that level in that position.

Sydney!

Stupid really for people to expect so much from him already, he's playing an a new position and people are expecting huge things from him on a consistent basis. It's so fickle how fan's can be swayed, if he'd of banged in the two goals last night it would have been an excellent performance, now due to missing them it's one of his worst. Yes he did give the ball away a few times but in general it was a poor performance, I don't think Gerrard or Lampard really outshone him. I'd of seriously give Welbeck MOM, made such a big difference when he came on.

rpc

Syd
what about pirlo ?
Mick

Syd

Yeah I wouldn't complain as long as he isn't the 'saviour' of our midfield. We still need someone reliable alongside him, IMO.

RED_SKY

Red sky
that would be my thinking to
jred

RED_SKY, I agree someone with a bit of steel and a great passing range would be immense. Someone like Khedira would be a good call IMO.

Mick, Pirlo is a great player when given the chance to be. In the EPL he wouldn't have nearly enough time on the ball to work his magic. Serie A is a good league for him.

Sydney!

Can we stop with the 'we expect too much of him'? I'm not having a go at Cleverley, just getting bored with it. If you play for United and England, then like it or not, a lot is going to be expected of you...

AJH

Red_sky,

I agree 100% with everything you said in this thread. I think I must be coming down with something! ;)

GDS

I think its wrong that Lampard and Gerrard are still making the team at all.

Lampard did nothing at all last night apart from a pen and gets MOM? Its all very well bagging 2 against Moldova but they were one the worst teams i've ever seen at international level. Barnsley would have hammered them.

Gerrard again was poor last night, too busy looking for 30-40 yard Hollywood balls that come off 1 in 3 times. But his short passing is terrible, and of course once he gives it away again he dives in like a chump already on 1 yellow and surprise surprise he walks. I do think the ref had been poor all game though as was looking at making a name though but Gerrard was still inexcuasbale.

Cleverley, yes he missed a couple, but 1 was straight at the keeper, 1 was a half chance and 1 was the post. Also bear in mind he had Ren and Stimpy behind him and the woful Milner to one side (how does this guy make the England team? Offers absolutley nothing!) Defoe was largely crowded out and Oxlade as well and faded badly.

Mort

Wow a Ren and Stimpy reference my day is complete after that. Thanks Mort

Darren-Bermuda

GDS

Yes, the season-long truce is in full flow, I'm sure we'll cross swords again in the summer though, haha!

RED_SKY

12 Sep 2012 09:04:25
Champions league is just around the corner, I for one am very excited for a few reasons: 1 being that I think Fergie will really go for it this season due to last years abomination. 2 I am intrigued to see how City get on againast Real Madrid, I won't be crass and say I want to see them destroyed (although secretly I do). It'll just be interesting to see them fair up againast Europes elite. It's all well and good doing Norwich and such teams 5-0 but can they do it in the worlds biggest stage, I think they'll bottle it. I'm predicting a 3-0 debarcle.

Andy S

We have a stronger squad this season so do not have to play average or inexperienced players like Obertan, Bebe, Gibson, Fryers, Diouf & Kiko in some of the group games to rest our first choice players. We can play players like Hernandez, Welbeck, Young, Anderson & Buttner instead who have far more quality. They can play League Cup and some FA Cup too, this allows us to keep a strong first team fit for the bigger games. We will do better this season.

Sydney!

I think we have no chance of doing well in the champions league. Our midfield just is not strong enough and our defence is suspect too. This goes for the premier league too. A settled defence properly concentrating and working as one unit is essential to a successful team. Ferdinand and Vidic will both be exposed by pacy attackers. Additionally Ferdinand is often not fit. We all know Evra's liable to defensive lapses. Rafael will get better but as a young man he still has to reach his peak and lets his instinct to attack override his defensive duties at times.

All these things would not be so important if we had a midfield that was dominant with at least one powerful player who could act as a shield and one who had the guile and skill to provide killer passes to our front men. We don't. Thus it will be another long hard season with nothing to show at the end of it.
I do feel sorry for Fergie that he has lost Smalling/Evans/Jones already but the truth is that in midfield we are desperately short. Compare our midfield to Man City/Chelsea/Madrid/Barca/Bayern just to name a few and it does not take a geniius to recognise where we fall short.
If we want to take a longer term view I would try to integrate Jesse Lingaard and Petrucci with Tunnecliffe asap. We might have to wait a few seasons to start seeing the benefit but at least they wont get frustrated and leave for pastures new and we might actually have a chance of winning something in a few seasons time. I do not see why we should always look to buy to address our shortcomings. We have invested heavily in the Academy. Lets see some results.
One more thing....Falcao was available for 7.5m less than two years ago. Many Utd supporters on various blogs were raving about him as were many respected south american football journalists. Why didnt we attempt to get him? He is not the first to escape the net. If we do make attempts and lose out why not at least tell the fans that we tried

Rant over

Id take Gibson now mate, he isnt a bad player,

Cban

With respect, Gibson is a good player but will never be world class and we need top top players

WE were linked with Falcao couple of years yes. Was it work permit issues?

12 Sep 2012 00:52:57
Clevz is a tremendous little player. So he missed a couple chances, didn't stop him playing well, just stopped him getting starman. If he scored one of his opportunites he would have been man of match no issue! Would love him in my midfield. Not bad looking either.......EGGS

11 Sep 2012 23:55:49
Having seen Cleverley tonight for England, got to be honest he is nowhere near being the finished article. As Jonathan Pearce pointed out, in front of goal he's not scored since playing for Wigan, his passing isn't great and to be fair he runs around like Robbie Savage.

Fergie seriously cocked up this summer by not signing a central midfielder. People are saying we tried for Witsel but I have my doubts and the fact we made a £5m bid for Dembele probably shows how serious Fergie was about midfield this summer.

I know the guy has been a legend for us, but given the fact that he had to beg Scholes out of retirement and at 37/8 should be enjoying retired life on a Yacht in Monte Carlo, Anderson is over weight and rubbish, Carrick is sturdy but hardily world class and Cleverley is bang average not to mention but all the above have terrible injury records, I just can't see that competing on any level with the top 4.

Sort it out Ferguson! Moutinho, De Rossi, Witsel, Dembele, M'Vila... any would've done the trick old boy!

Actually he is a great passer of the ball, one of his best attributes and he does have enormous energy and excellent positioning skills which makes him a very useful player. He fluffed a sitter and a half chance tonight, not scoring was his only fault, everything else he did was very good and that's all you can ask of him after his SECOND International game. Suarez misses chances like that every week, but he is still your best player.

Pretending to be a United fan isn't convincing anyone lad. Sad.

Sydney!

Sydney

Cleverleys position last night was the same as Kagawa for us and Kagawa is a far better player. Toms shortbpassing is good, he likes short passing in and around him but does not have the range you would normally expect of a main central midfield player. To play in the hole you have to score goals and at International level he missed one open goal and two relatively straightforward chances. It is early days at England level for him but it is also for United as well. He is a good player but has an awful lot to prove in either shirt. He has to compare against Keane and Scholes as our successful midfield and is nowhere near that level at this point. I don't think having the dysfunctional Lampard and Gerrard behind him helps nor does the wooden Milner but we need to see Tom step up soon as he cannot live on a good game against Moldova. SAF will also keep an eye on it as Tom has much to prove.

At least Carrick was rested to allow L and G play which helps United and lessened England's ball retention.

Red Man

Totally agree Syd, who the hell is agreeing with his post? His scouser friends? Cleverly was great last night, he kept on asking for the ball! Running all over the pitch to pick the ball up and making forward passes.

-JakeW

Red Man, Cleverley had a good game last night which was overshadowed by a bad miss. Not an open goal like you were saying, but still a chance he would have buried 99/100. The other two chances were half chances at best although should have at least hit the target with the second one. What you are overlooking is the fact he does get into good positions and when he breaks his duck, he could be prolific with the chances he gets for England and United. He just needs games and goals to settle him down.

United fans especially should remember that he has only played a handful of competitive United games and two competitive England games, out of position I may add. I am not worried in the slightest about Cleverley, I would be worried if he never got into positions to score or he never put in a decent shift every game, but having watched him since he was 15 I know he can score goals and his energy and willingness to receive the ball can only be a good thing for both England and United. He is just being too careful at the moment, he isn't taking too many risks in midfield and he is trying to place is shots rather than putting his laces through them.

This season is a massive season for him I agree, but I have no doubt that he will develop into a top quality player by next season barring injury of course. People need to stop comparing him to Scholes, Scholes is special and the only players in the world right now that can match Scholes are unavailable (Iniesta/Xavi), the only other player close to Scholes is Modric who chose to go to Madrid. Moutinho and Cabaye are tidy players, but not on par with Scholes. Cleverley could make as much of a difference as they do and he is already at the club and a few years younger then them. Seems pointless spending £30m+ on one of them when we have a player who could do the same job already at the club. He needs to be given a fair chance and he isn't getting that by some people on here.

Sydney!

Players nowadays to have a tendency to be over hyped. I never really rated Cleverly from early viewings, and touting him as a young star is perhaps wide of the mark as he is already 23.
However I would say the orginal posted as under hyped him! I dont ever see Cleverly in the hole for us considering the range of options we have in Kagawa, Rooney etc. He does still have a lot to prove granted but his passing is excellent, simple, effective, moving the ball on quicky with good awareness. Cleverly reminds me of a very similar player to Lampard at the same age with better awareness though not the same finishing at the moment, and as much as I dislike Lampard I wouldnt say that is a bad testament. We have plenty of midfield options this season that I would agree with you have suffered injuries and loss of form and many the jury is out on. However I see De Rossi as Totti, not goin gto leave his adored club which is to be admired really. As for all of the other players, good players, again over hyped do you genuinely see any of the players you mentioned for us to sign as world class?
Invisible STuey

Syd take the red tinted specs off cleverley didnt have a good game,he didnt see the ball for periods last night and was dispossesed a few times allowing ukraine to break.im not having a go at him for the misses as he isnt a natural goalscorer and may never be,hes a decent player at the moment with the potential to develop lets hope he does.
johndenton

John, I completely disagree. Like another poster has said, if Cleverley scored just one goal last night he would have got MOTM. He did everything right apart from score. Plenty of energy, wanted the ball every time and was quick and accurate with his passing. He got into some very good positions and on another day he would have scored two. I cannot remember seeing Cleverley dispossessed once last night unless it happened in the first 18 minutes which I missed. Would be interested to know his pass completion rate last night.

Sydney!

It was in the early part of the game syd,as others have said it wouldnt of been hard to get motm last night for england they were all poor and not on the same level technically as ukraine.
johndenton

John, that's why I missed it then mate. I agree that no one was great yesterday apart from the lad that scored for Ukraine.

Sydney!