Manchester United Banter Archive April 13 2013

 

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13 Apr 2013 23:13:03
I can see United including Nani in a deal for Falcao rather than Hernandez

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I hope that is the case. Hernandez must stay and saf must find a system to play him.
Nomidfield

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13 Apr 2013 21:11:20
Hi Guys
I'd like to send my best wishes to all the decent Millwall fans that had to watch those awful scenes at Wembley. When are the authorities going to do something about those animals. Yet again they have ruined what should have been a great day for the Millwall following. The sight of those young supporters crying is shameful.
Congratulations to Wigan, I hope they win the cup.

Bazza The Red

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13 Apr 2013 21:47:02
Anyone think Arron Lennon would be worth buying to try and sort out our wing problems or is he just another Young?
NorthRed

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Not good enough at all

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If we got Aaron Lennon for £5m, he would be a superb signing, because he would have a fantastic impact coming off the bench during games. Problem is, he'd want first team football and would likely cost £20m.

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He has got incredible pace to scare the s. out of any full back and can dribble.

I actually think spurs slum started with Lennnon being injured and even when bale was playing. He would be a great pick up for under 8 million and hell of lot better than what we have on the right wing today, defensively not great.

Shahram

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13 Apr 2013 19:53:09
So refreshing to see Hernandez attitude that he'll stay and fight for his place in the team even if falcao arrives.
He's a class act and the genuine article. If only saf can play him more often, in the right formation, he'll be fantastic. I for one, will be happy with hernandez, falcao, rvp next season.
As long as we buy one or two midfielders to support them.
Nomidfield {Ed004's Note - The only way I could see that happening is if we use the diamond more often. A front 3 of RVP, Lewandowski and Falcao is being greedy but would there be a better front 3? Especially with Kagawa, Welbeck and Hernandez covering. Then make the midfielders better Strootman, Carrick and Wanyama? As he offers a bit more support defensively. Not sure it would work and I'm 100% certain we won't make that many changes. My problem with Hernandez is he isn't good enough technically in that line up I think that's why I suggest Lewandowski}

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We'd be better playing Welbeck, RVP & Falcao. Hernandez plays so much better when he comes off the bench.

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13 Apr 2013 19:40:03
Congrats to Wigan, Roberto Martinez and the chairman for reaching the FA cup final. Shame about all the violent scenes, we don't want to see these again in football.
Let's hope Chelsea can beat city and then Wigan to lift the trophy! Miracle needed but it can happen.
Nomidfield

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13 Apr 2013 19:11:22
Just wanted to update you all on the norwegian Tippeliga. Solskjaers team Molde, that has won the last two seasons, has lost the first four matches (the season has just started), with the one today against a team what is considered the weakest (or one of) team in the Tippeliga. They love him at the club, so I don't think he will get fired, but it will be interesting to see how Ole will react. All managers have down periods, but what seperates the good from the best, is what they do/how they react in these times.

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13 Apr 2013 18:21:11
Just seen some highlights from 2008. Wow, how much better was our football then. We need to get back to faster players with bags of skill. I think its shocking to say that this is our best ever squad, the 2008 squad was very very special. Hargreaves, Tevez, Ronaldo, Pique a younger Rooney and Giggs and Scholes. for me, far superior than our squad of today.

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Yeah Fresh, I saw that too, and before that I was watching the 1994 team, midfield consisted of Keane, since and Robson. How does that compare to carrick, cleverly and Anderson? Do people still think this is the best squad ever?
Nomidfield

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Meant to write Keane, ince and Robson!
Nomidfield

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13 Apr 2013 18:09:47
I can sum up everything that is wrong with football and some of the supporters who now like the game after Euro 96. It is TIMBO

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Timbo's contribution earlier was to say that we should "acknowledge that we arguably have the best overseas owners going"

Astonishing

Red Man

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You should be used to the glazer appologists by now redman, its fans like us who are in the wrong lol
johndenton

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13 Apr 2013 17:20:55
Guys having a very food day with every bet so far coming good. I have a felling we will smash Stoke and have just laid a big bet on us for tomm.

RVP to score and Rooney to score.

Shahram

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I'll take 1-0 win!
Nomidfield

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If fit, I would like to see the following team :
Ddg,
rapha, vidic, Rio, evra
Jones, carrick, cleverley kagawa
Hernandez, Rvp

Width can come from our full backs. We will be solid when stoke are in possession, and we will be good going forward with kagawa, Hernandez and rvp.
Nomidfield

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13 Apr 2013 14:51:48
Tomorrows game calls for a Ferdinand and vidic partnership (if fit). Need their experience and know how against a physical stoke.
RVP to get amongst the goals again as well to bring us the important 3 points!
Come on united!

Del Boy!

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Definitely will need Vidic at his best tomorrow
DHK

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Vidic still not fit, don't believe he will play

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13 Apr 2013 14:08:32
If we had gotten Lucas in the summer, we prob wouldn't have gotten RVP, so which would ye have preferred, Having one of the best strikers in the world in RVP or an exciting young Brazilian with the potential to be the worlds best?

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I think if we had signed Moura last summer the club would have kicked Nani out of the door in order to bring in RvP.

Sydney!

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Lucas signing hasn't got anything to do with rvp. it was his agent charges that we refused to pay. Like many others missed signings.
So please don't mix up the mater.

Rodio17

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PSG offered 8 million more and had nothing to do with RVP.

shahram

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The poster I believe is trying to say that if moura would of arrived then rvp would not of been able to be funded by the board so would not of gone through.

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That is incorrect as we had already signed RVP when we put in a bid for Moura and thought we had a deal until PSG came in late with bigger Bid.

This was also quite late in the transfer window and whatever other targets we had were either gone or too late to go after. That is why I believe the manager is looking for an attacking midfielder and we will end up spending our largest chunk of transfer money on one come this summer.

Another point that most people are aware off, is that Fergie has never been convinced or keen on defensive midfielders. He loves his wingers and strikers.

Shahram

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13 Apr 2013 11:34:29
While nobody who has attended games in the last few years should be surprised at police reports that thousands of our "fans" are buying tickets every year and every week but not even bothering to turn up on match day, for me this is an indicator of the direction football is moving in. I know so many people and families who used to go to matches regularly but have been priced out if it for the last decade or so, and would love to be able to attend again. But because of affluent numbskulls who buy a ticket or season ticket just in case, and those who buy season tickets exclusively for resale, BPL clubs can continue to justify astronomical prices that deny lifelong supporters the chance to support their team.

Fergie claims that all Chelsea and City are interested in is making money. If he really feels like this he needs to take a stand against the prawn sandwich brigade and greedy opportunists by making sure that ordinary supports can afford the seats these people leave empty every weekend. Because as it stands the club's attitude indicates that they are more concerned with tickets being bought than fans actually supporting their team.

Danny Pughnited

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Whatever butters the bread. lol

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Very few people in England cannot afford £930 over the course of a year. And that is the priciest season ticket. There are seats available for half that amount. £532 spread over the year is not too pricey for anyone in England in this day and age, sorry.

Sydney!

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Syd, I disagree. And even if they can afford it, there are a lot of other things £1,000 will buy. I think £50 to watch a game is very expensive. I know it's supply / demand, crowds are up, great product, but the money in the game is way out of control. The wages being paid today are ridiculous

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13 Apr 2013 14:42:47
Syd, it is for anyone with a family. A dad who wants to buy season tickets for his kid. A sleep deprived underfed college student, a supporter living outside of England who's going bankrupt because a season ticket, along with the transportation cost. It is for an underpaid working man. Not every supporter is a rich engineer/ doctor/ six figure salary type. Some people are short on cash, and 600 pounds is just too much for them no matter how much they love their club.

Mick

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13 Apr 2013 15:07:35
Syd people have higher priorities. Its not just the tickets. Its getting to games, its the general cost of living. Since this recession kicked in i've had one pay rise in five years and that was 0. 5%. Look at how much petrol has gone up in five years. Gas bills, electric, food prices have all gone up. Rent. Council tax. Its never ending increases in the cost of living that's making people struggle, whilst wages haven't moved and in real terms have dropped as we're getting less at more cost on the same money. I'd happily pay it back in my bachelor days but not now. Young families come above football. Spend two hours in the freezing cold or stay in the warmth with the family and watch on tv?

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I am talking about the people that live in and around Manchester that no longer attend games like they used to do. I never used to pay anything for some of my tickets, usually less than a tenner, but even now I would say £38 a ticket to watch Manchester United is a bargain. I understand others have other priorities, even I do, but I could afford a season ticket if I wanted it. I am no doctor or rich engineer. I am a cleaner. Extra costs for geological reasons is fair enough, but people living in and around Manchester moaning about the prices is simply nonsense. If it matters that much to them they would go. If they are not too bothered then this shouldn't really apply to them.

Sydney!

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13 Apr 2013 17:59:54
Syd I get your point. The prices are not astronomical, fair enough. And all things considered, the ticket proces slare still pretty reasonable especially compared to Arsenal and co. This is how things are. Football is a competitive business and I genuinly believe everyone understands why ticket prices have gone up.

But that also doesn't mean that every fan, no matter how hardcore and passionate he is, is able to afford those prices. And those who can't will feel gutted. That's all there is. i'm not talking about this from a personal point of view because no matter how cheap tickets get, I will never be a season ticket holder. Transportation would cost twice as much anyway, but I do feel for the likes of Pete and Russle, who have always been die hard manchester united fans, but are now unable to afford season tickets before one has to take care of his sick wife while the other has decided his son's education is his first priority ( and no, I don't actualluly know Pete and Russel, just making a point ).

Does it suck? Yes. Can we blame the owners? No. Every club in England is trying to maximise the profit, and as long as that's working, fair play.

Mick

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Sydney I am quite frankly surprised and shocked by your response. Ironically it is such a Thatcherite thing to say. "If you can't afford to go, tough luck". Hang your head in shame

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Syd, £38 is not a bargain for peolen very low wages. Assuming you walk to the ground, don't have a pie or a pint, or buy a programme, it's still a fair wedge to watch a game. I'd like to take my son regularly but I can't justify the cost - there a too many other things to pay for, and I earn a pretty good wage.

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Sydney

Sorry but your cost argument is so far off that I have to comment

My ticket cost £905 but you have forgotten the automatic cup scheme that binds us to buy tickets for all European and FA cup home tickets, regardless of whether you can attend. So add 4 European cup games £200, then this season another £150 to £200 for the FA cup and the total is nearer £1, 300 just for tickets. Add car park for every game at £5 another £120. So with something to eat or drink the cost is well over £1, 500 a season.

I am struggling to afford that next season, if it is a choice of a family holiday or my ticket then that is tough but if it is gas and food or a ticket then it is no choice. The automatic cup scheme is a disgrace and may tip people over the edge. I will also add that there are games I couldn't attend and frankly it was very difficult for anyone to take the ticket off me. Note I haven't even included the cost of travel which is substantial on top of the above numbers. The owners rely upon our dedication and almost addiction to the club, the automatic cup scheme is not treating us like customers and they are getting close to killing the goose.

Red Man

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Kloot, I am not saying if a person cannot afford it then 'tough'. I am saying I find it hard to believe someone cannot afford a £532 season ticket.

AJH, you do not need to buy a pie, programme or a pint to watch a football game.

Red Man, at £905 you have a good seat. Do you need a seat as good as that? I am not telling you what to buy, just saying if money was tight for anybody then they could get a cheaper seat and not go to the European games. My point is £532 over a season is affordable for anyone in this day and age.

Mick, if Russell needs to look after his sick wife then that has nothing to do with cost. If Pete wants to put his son through college then again that's his choice, but if he really wanted to watch United his son would get a student loan like everyone else.

Sydney!

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Arsenal's season tickets are at £1, 955. Just £1, 050 more than Red Man's top seat at OT. A team that will go at least nine years without winning a single trophy. A club that refuses to pay more than £15m for a player and cannot keep their best players as they refuse to pay them a top club's salary.

If a diehard United fan wants to watch his team then I find it hard to believe they cannot pay £532 over the course of a season. In England that amount is a pittance over the length of a year. Even the poorest in England can spare £50 a month to do what they love.

My mate's son does an hours paper round every morning Mon-Fri for £30 a week, there is cash out there if you want it bad enough.

Sydney!

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I think that other people have summed up what's wrong with your ideas of affordability Syd. But to clarify.

The season before the PL was founded any United season ticket was under £200, and you could get a match ticket for under a tenner. I know about the thing called inflation, but that doesn't really seem to sync up with what amounts to a rise of between 150% - to 350% in ticket costs in the last 20 years. Now this rise coincides with mass commercialisation and huge increases in wages, transfer fees, and the general costs of running a football club. But despite these costs the club turns over a vast profit every season, far more, even adjusted for inflation, than it ever did in the pre-PL years.

The difference is that the last twenty years has seen a major shift in how the club sees itself and its relationship to the greater Manchester community. Football clubs began as communal goods: run by the community for the community. Manchester United is now a business: run by the Glazers for profits. One of the results of this is that an average of 10,000 seats are vacant for every home game while numerous fans are unable to afford the price of admission. In short, the club doesn't care if supports are supporting the team, all they care about is that the ticket is sold.

£38 a week is a massive undertaking for any family or person struggling to get by during an economic downturn. And if the club claims to be about more than just money it should be trying to make itself part of the community again, and start offering affordable tickets to fans who want to attend games but are being priced out by a section of supporters who only bother when it's a "big" game, and the touts who buy up tickets to extort international fans.

Danny Pughnited

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I'm taking the wee lad over for the Villa game for his birthday - after travel, hotel, food etc the cost doesn't bear thinking about.

But then it always did - what I'm paying extra for matchday tickets and food now, I'm also saving on travel due to budget flights.

Syd, I get your point, and I could go to the game and not spend much else on sundries, but if you bring a kid, especially as a birthday treat, you feel obliged to buy them a few things at the game, so it's difficult to just pay for your ticket and nothing more.

Unfortunately what used to be a trip over to OT seven or eight times a year, a few away games, and a few trips abroad for European games, has now turned into a twice yearly treat - cheers Josh!

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Sydney

I have sat there for a long time.

It isn't just the purchase of the ticket.

Your thoughts on the automatic cup scheme?

Red Man

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Syd, I know 'it's just your opinion' but sometimes can you not accept that you might be ever so slightly possibly wrong?

AJH

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Danny, the club was a business well before the Glazers took over. In fact under the PLC the tickets were due to rise by the amounts they did whether the Glazers bought or not. Also is there another club in the EPL whose season ticket prices haven't risen 150%-350% in 22 years?

Sydney!

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Red Man, like I said it's your choice what seat you buy, that's your right mate. You work hard for the cash to pay for it. I was talking generally that if a person couldn't afford his seat, he could in theory buy a lower priced seat.

I do not agree with the Automatic Cup Scheme, although you can sell the tickets on to recoup your money, it's still not fair to do what they are doing. I suppose this is a way for them to guarantee high attendances in undesirable cup games, but more more importantly it gets them their money for a guaranteed 54k tickets sold.

Sydney!

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Syd that £532 suddenly becomes £750 with the auto cup scheme and that's without travel or any other expenses. also its provided you can get the cheaper ticket. my son is 16 his ticket is £380 after next year it will be full price £760. that's £1500 with mine plus a potential £400 for both of us for cup games and its £2k without anything else. i'm lucky I only live 2.5miles away but a lot of home games I meet friends for a few beers and all of a sudden its heading for £3k a season that's at a level I might have to think about as I don't think the fans are getting value for money this season, even if we are top of the league the football has been boring and very poor quality at times
johndenton

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Clearly not

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Syd you can't be a man who has a family to support. My wife is in uni and I have kids to pay for, however much a man loves his club he isn't going to put it first when he needs to feed his family. If £1000 + a year doesn't seem a lot to you then you clearly don't have a lot to pay for, many of us do (and I earn considerably more than a cleaner does) I have essentially had to give up my season ticket because I can't justify either going into debt for it or moving to a smaller house

Snakey

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Reading through these comments has boiled my pi**. Sydney take a bow, you have just made yourself look like a complete fool with your comments.
It would be great if everyone was as financially secure as you obviously are but we are not, why not kick us all in the teeth as well eh!
And you wonder why people like Kloot call you a Glazer appologist etc. Plum.

A response to teh thread:

{Ed002's Note - Putting aside the whole argument of what people can, can't, should, may be able to afford etc. (which does nothing but reinforce my point that we should avoid discussion of money), the game has changed significantly and will continue to do so. Football at the highest level is big business and attracts the sponsorship it does because the sponsors wish to tap in to the disposable income of the fans, and ride the back of the advertising that flows naturally from the success some clubs achieve. Long gone are the days of the cloth-capped, hobnailed-booted, chimney sweep making his way, rattle in hand, to cheer on his team at Old Trafford on a Saturday afternoon. I have explained before that there will be changes, probably within the next 10 years, which will force the restructuring of all of the leagues in Europe and likely do away with the UEFA. You will have the opportunity to see the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus and the other major European sides play week-on-week regular competition at Old Trafford. You will have the opportunity to visit Milan, Barcelona, Monaco, etc. every couple of weeks. If you want to don your cloth cap and have a pint of wallop with your chums before going off to the local match, perhaps one of the sides from the Manchester suburbs like AFC Manchester, Bury, Rochdale, Liverpool or Oldham will have survived, so you can go and watch them?}

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Sydney
In this day and age when families all over the country are struggling to make ends meet what a stupid thing to say hold your head in shame

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So football becomes a rich mans sport ed? {Ed002's Note - They plan to broadcast games on pay-per-hear radio as well.}

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Snakey, I have three young children and a missus who loves buying a different outfit every week and some kind of new cussion or ornament for the house. Although I am a cleaner and the missus is a carer, we both are qualified to do better paid jobs, but there isn't much on offer where I live at this time. Even on my cleaner's salary mixed with tax credits and what not, I can still afford £532 a year to do what I love. We are talking about less than £50 a month. Sadly I live too far away for me to justify paying extra for travel, accommodation etc etc too, but if I still lived in Salford I wouldn't have any problem paying £532 a year. Bare in mind a season ticket at Oldham is only £200 less. A season ticket at United for £532 is great value for money. I understand different families have different circumstances, but I still find it hard to imagine a United supporter cannot find £50 a month to watch the team. Sorry.

Again, I am not talking about the people that need to incorporate travel and other significant costs. I would also like to say this isn't a Manchester United thing, ALL clubs in the EPL or even the football league have increased their season ticket prices by the same amount as Manchester United over the past 20 years, except only a handful can offer the what United can in entertainment.

Sydney!

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13 Apr 2013 11:13:38
Quote Red Man - "They are astute businessmen no doubt about it but open your eyes to where we are and where we could have been. Ask why we only have 3 EC's whilst we have dominated in England"

Wow. open my eyes! They are open, but not selfish and arrogant! What a question to pose. It appalls me that a United fan believes we have an almost God given right to silverware, and that all we need to do is get the chequebook out.

United have won it once during the Glazers tenure. Over a period of what 8 years I fail to see how that is either "that bad" or purely the fault of the Glazers?

You say we should have won it more than three times, maybe, but for many reasons we haven't. Munich 58 and limits on foreign player rules have denied us of maybe 2 or 3 more. maybe more. but how the hell is that the Glazers fault? What's that got to do with the way they run the club?

But your argument is money is what is needed to win the Champions League. Yes a factor, but if oh-so true why have Man City not won it yet - in fact this year's performance was woeful, why have Chelsea only won it once (and that was fortunate!), and why are PSG out of it this year in the quarters? There are so many facts that destroy your point, not to mention.

. Barcelona! Two defeats in finals during the Glazer ownership (which you fail to mention) to arguably the greatest club-side to ever grace a pitch.

Jesus Christ. Get a grip and be grateful for what United have given you and not what they haven't!

Barcelona 1999 was worth three Champions League wins alone!

Believable19 Unbelievable17

Agree with original poster, he didn't say we had a god given right to win it, he said we should have won it more times. And straight away we get someone knocking the poster for daring to mention that we should have done better? Why do we have this attitude that whenever someone says we should be doing better, then they are derided?
The two barca finals were laughable in the lack of tactics we showed, saf fault for trying to play open and attack against the best team that has ever been assembled, inter and Chelsea have shown that barca can be beaten, providing you play the right tactics.
Agree though that the 58 team would have gone on to win more had it not been for the tragedy.
So please, let's stop critisizing everyone who dares question our manager, players, tactics etc. If saf was perfect, we would have won a lot more, he's not perfect, he makes a lot of mistakes Just like everyone else, but he's one of the best.

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Timbo

"Get a grip and be grateful for what United have given you and not what they haven't! "

I am grateful for 20 years of success but as someone who started supporting late in 1968 I spent 25 years waiting for that to happen. In those 25 years United gave me some good times and in 74 the worst times. When you have watched the utter garbage as I have then you appreciate the good times even more. The thing was that when the Scousers were dominant in England they made it count in Europe. In 08 we had a real team ready to challenge regularly in Europe as well. Barcelona blew us away in 09 but we didn't improve, we sold Ronaldo, although we had little choice, but we haven't looked like challenging these last two years as our team has not be strengthened sufficiently and the core talent has aged. We now can't compete for the worlds top talent because one hand is tied by our debts. Yes we bought RVP but the big Spanish teams were not chasing him so we had a slightly easier task.
What galls me about your post was not that it turned the conversation away from the Glazer debts (was that your intention and why?)but the attitude that we should be grateful for what we are given, almost something that could be written by a Glazer. According to you the club and us the supporters should not want to win everything every year. That displays a lack of ambition which you will not find at Real Madrid or Barcelona, it is the sort of apathy that would lend itself to finishing fourth being a trophy.
We shoud be ambitious and demand to challenge for everything or slip back to what we had in the seventies.
The elephant in the room is City and they don't have your lack of ambition. We are doing well in the league but will be a long way off in Europe until we have the level of player that makes a difference and that will cost us, unless you are happy with second, third or just qualifying for Europe.

It is not arrogance but ambition, I want to see us win in Europe and be the next regular challengers like Barca with six successive EC semis, if that is wrong then let's see what City and Chelsea do, as they do have ambition.

Red Man

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Red man, anyone who disagrees with that is not thinking straight.
I started watching united at the same time, and like you, I remember the Denis law back heel that sent us down to div2. I also remember, the great football we played under tommy docherty. When saf came, success soon followed, this success was based on the boss's and the club's ambition and hunger. We competed with all the clubs for the best talent, and luckily we also got a fantastic crop of young players who turned out to be world beaters.
Now, we go to Chelsea and get wiped out, then let city totally dominate us and if we dare question the manager's tactics or the team's skill, we are told to be grateful and shut up.
What a ridiculous attitude! If we don't have ambition then there is only one way we're going, backwards!
I want us to complete with the best but at the moment, we are some way behind the best teams in Europe in terms of playing staff, management and tactics. And unfortunately, we can't compete on the financial front despite being in the top three in the world.
If we want to bury our head in the sand and be grateful for everything, then that's fine, but one thing's for sure, we will not stay at the top for long and will lag further behind the European sides.
Nomidfield

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Nomidfield, every fan has the right to have an opinion. If they disagree with the manager's tactics then they can say it. Personally I think the manager has neglected the midfield area much like you do, but I am also aware that we are in a transition and that the manager doesn't have a blank cheque to go out and buy all of his targets in one go. I think some United fans need to be a little more patient, we will come good in the end. To be coasting the league like this during a transition is pretty remarkable. Look at Arsenal and Liverpool's transitions. Look at Chelsea's transition and they have unlimited amounts of funds to build their squads. I am disappointed about the midfield and the LB position, but I am sure we will finally sort those positions this summer. I certainly hope so ;)

Sydney!

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Timbo are you on a wind up?
Or are you really that blind.

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13 Apr 2013 11:03:05
Good news, young out for two weeks, hopefully we can wrap up the title before then.

TRUMORS

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Thats a disgraceful attitude to have. Whether you like the player or not, actually celebrating that a United player is out injured is nothing short of shameful.

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13 Apr 2013 13:55:56
Thats truly pathetic. Call yourself a United fan? MrE

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I'm guessing it was an attempt at humour, chill out

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Didn't mean it, like AJH said, it's a joke.

TRUMORS

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13 Apr 2013 10:09:51
a question who is the best defender in the premier league I personaly think Kompany with Rio a close second
Paddy The Irish Man

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Top 2 has got to be ok pansy and vidic without a doubt, since vidic has been playing the amount of goals we've conceded has dropped massively.
TRUMORS

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Kompany lol TRUMORS

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13 Apr 2013 08:35:30
I read an interesting discussion yesterday on thia page, and if I recall correctly Shappy said something along the lines that Webeck is a good passer, since he has a good passing completion rate, and might be suited to be an attacking midfielder.

Well, if the norm to be a good passer is your passing completion rate, that makes Joe Allen and Leon Britton world class passers. But they are not.

Andrea Pirlo, Paul Scholes, Francesco Totti, Xavi and Andres iniesta. When you think of passing, these are the players you know are a class above the rest. Xabi Alonso, Wesley Sneijder, Mesut Ozil, Steven Gerrard and David Silva are the other ones you might consider.

Xavi and Iniesta, along with Scholes, are all about accuracy. Their completion percentage are north of 90 % and between themselves, they average over 250 passes a game.

But here is the surprise, so does Joe Allen, Leon Britton and Kim sung Yeung. Does that put thwm in the same class as the afromentioned trio? No

There are other things you have to take into account. From a deep midfield position, Xavi averages 2 key passes per game. Pirlo, a massive 3. Totti also averages 3, including a whooping 1, 5 through balls per game, a world record. Iniesta has 1, 9. But to list the pass masters is unfair to young Welbeck.

Here are the pick of the prenier league passers. Juan Mata averages 2, 8 key passes, while an aging Gerrard has 2, 5. Suarez, not known for his team work, averages 2, 7. Last season, Kagawa averaged over 2, 8 key passes per game for Dortmund, while our own Valencia has a monstruous 2, 4, more than any other winger in Europe.

If Welbeck is to play a creative role, he has to be able to provide chances for his team mates, so let's compare him to our other options.

Rooney creates a respectable if unspectacular 1, 9 chances per game, while RVP has a 1, 7 average. A massivly off form Valencia still creates 1, 4 per game while a underpar Young has a 1, 8. Even Nani has 1. Now let's move on to our boy wonder Welbeck. He creates 0, 9 chances per game. The only attacking player with a lower average is Chicharito at 0, 7.

so it's quite clear that Webeck's 86 % passing accuracy comes without quality.

But there are other factors to beeing a good creative force. Dribbling is one of the most important factors. Valencia averages a team high of 1, 6 ( which, in itself, is a worriying statistic ). Welbeck averages 0, 8. Considering he gets disposessed 1, 6 times a game, that means he fails twice as many dribbles as he pulls off. So dribbling is not one of his best characteristics.

Dont get me wrong Shappy, I like Welbeck and I wish he stays with us for a long time, but he is no creative force. His passing is below par considering he creates less than one chance a game. I agree with Shahram on the matter.

Mick

PS: sorry for the long, rather useless post. Saturday mornings are boring.

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Mick

Lol, finally got some respect on this site. You said exactly what I have been saying but with a lot more tact.

Our team is crying out for 2 midfielders one that can be box to box and chip in 5 to 7 goals and a number of assists a season and an attacking/creative midfielder than can provide 10 assists and chip in with 8 to 10 goals. So to think he could be our attacking midfielder is just bolony.

For arguments sake it is like saying Vidic is not the greatest defender so let's try him as a midfielder since we are lacking in that position.

One of the things that has held us back in the last few years is playing people in positions that they are average at and not buying the ready made solutions. I never question the effort a lot of our guys put in but sometimes it is clear they are not great at it.

This is one of the main reasons we struggle in so many games and the football is quite ugly to watch.

Shahram

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13 Apr 2013 17:04:55
So. who is the creative player you'd like to see signed? My first choice would obviously be Goetze, with Erick Lamela a close second. Isco is also a terrific talent. Last season, Muniain would have been my first choice but this season he has not been progressing and has been BIlbao's version of Lamela.

Although if we don't sign a creative attacking midfielder, I wouldn't be too bothered tbh.

Nick Powell is looking a class above reserve level, and with a good preseason under his belt, he should start guetting 20 games a season. Januzaj is also a great talent and has adapted quickly to U 21 level. A good preseason and half a season's loan and he should be starting to knock on the door for a first team place

We also have Kagawa who is quite a special player and should start playing week in, week out.

The only definite way I see a top class attacking midfielder join is if Rooney is sold. We'd see Kagawa moved centrally, with a left inverted winger beeing brought in. We would also have Welbeck who can do a job when called upon ( hopefully not too often ), Young, Valencia and Zaha ( I actually think Zaha will grab his opportunity with both hands and prove himself up to the task before the end of next season.

Mick {Ed004's Note - Id happily sell Rooney if we could get Gotze and Rodriguez in to replace him and Nani}

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There is the obvious choices like Goetze. I really like Ozil and Modric and would love to see either at our club. I think they are first rate passers with great wight to their passes and great creativity if that makes sense and also can score quite a few goals for us.

Then as someone rightfully pointed out there are attacking wingers who technically are midfielders in a 442 and forwards in a 433 and Munian or Rodrigues would be my first choice. I like Isco but like the pace of Rodrigues and Muniain.

I do realize Munian is not having the best of seasons but there is something just plain wrong with Athletico and the coach is a gonner come this off season. I still believe Muniain is a great buy especially given the fact that we can get him cheaper now as Porto will screw us on Rodrigues. Munian has a great cross on him from the byline which is what we are missing on the left flank.

Whilst we are on the subject of Athletico, I think De Marcos is a great player and could be a an option to strootman if he goes somewhere else.

We will get to see them hopefully tomm against Real.

Shahram

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13 Apr 2013 18:15:43
Goetze on the left, Rodriguez on the right and Kagawa through the middle. We'd have the technical ability to slice teams open if they're sitting deep, and the dribbling and pace to destroy teams on the counter. Goetze and Rodriguez would also be able to switch flanks if we need to whip crosses in, and woth Valencia, Young, Welbeck and Zaha, we'd have plenty of cover. And with Januzaj and Powell knocking on tehe first team, I woukdn't mind seeing Young shown the backdoor. We also wouldn't need a striker if Chicharito stays. Henriquezwill have a big future ahead of him, Bruno Gones looks set to join our ranks, Will Keane might not struggle too much after his comeback, John Cofee is earning good reviews on Sheffiekd and James Wilson is looking every bit as talented as any academy player I've ever seen.

At academy level, we have Daehli who recently broke into the U21s, and 16 yo Perreira who is beeing touted as one of the best players in his age groups.

If those transfers were to happen, along with a left back and a central. midfielder, imo we woukd be on our way back to the top of European football.

So a summer of Strootman ( 15 mils ), Rodriguez ( 25 mil + Anderson ), Goetze ( 35 mil )and Shaw ( 10 mils ), with Rooney ( 35 mils ) and Nani ( 15 mils ) and even possibly Young ( 15 mils ). Odeally, we'd wait till next season and get Lewandowski as a free transfer if Welbeck and Chicharito don't prove to be able long term replacements to Van Persie and none of the youngsters is ready yet.

Mick {Ed004's Note - That would be my ideal summer. Maybe Baines instead of Shaw}

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Mick that would be a great summer and really like the choices. We could do everything you are saying without selling rooney and would have an outlay of 50 million. You forgot to factor in that we should be getting another 10 million in sales from anderson, macheda, Bebe, so outlay of 40 million.

If we sold Rooney, I would like to see us invest that money and buy Lewandowski (he will go this summer and noway dortmund will allow him to go on free next year) and another young hi potential player in the mold of Draxler, Fisher, Zouma.

Shahram {Ed004's Note - Well I think options of Rooney, Kagawa, Gotze, Rodriguez, Zaha and Valencia are great options. Valencia, Zaha and Rodriguez all offer direct options for games when we have to counter and Kagawa, Rooney, Gotze, Rodriguez and Zaha for teams that sit back}

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To even suggest that leon britton isn't a world class passer of the ball is an absolute insult. please don't make statements without watching players, just because he doesn't play for a world class side doesn't mean he's not amazing. he is incredible at passing in his role the players you name who are 'worldclass' are mostly more attacking so are obviously going to get more assists than cdm leon britton

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14 Apr 2013 04:45:23
Shahram, we'd have 3 attacking spots and no shortage of options. Rooney, Rodroguez, Kagawa, Goetze, Valencia, Young, Zaha, Powell. And for some reason I don't see Rooney as the most docile, bench warming presencw.

Also at 27 years old, I guess it's a known fact Rooney is not improving, he's moving backwards and his crazy attitude, this kind of fire burning inside him, seems to have disappeared. We can call it maturity, but it seems he's no longier the player who terrorises opposing defenders. And idlf we want him to sign a new contract, he'd want a payrise, one that he frankly does not deserve. I also think in Powell we have a talented long term replacement.

As for his goals, Rodriguez, Goetze and Kagawa are all 15 goals a season type players, and Van Persie would get chances by the douzains. Also we'd see Chivharito scoring for fun when playing.

No name, I hope you're beeing sarcastic. If not, well sorry, you' re clueless.

Mick

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Mick I completely agree with your views on Rooney and have always maintained that I do not believe we will see the Old Rooney going forward. People get very defensive on this issue but it is a reality of getting older and that happens to many players.

I can't even think the club would be willing to increase his wage and the reality is how much of a pay cut is he willing to accept if they offer him an extension. As you have rightfully pointed out his ego might not allow for that and we need to consider selling him while we can still get a decent price.

I still think we should buy Lewandowski as RVP is going to be 30/31 next year and Lew could be a natural successor to him.

Shahram

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13 Apr 2013 07:14:32
Have I missed something? I don't remember anyone talking about or wanting to sign Falcao. Now, after a rumour in a paper, everyone is wetting themselves about him coming and seems happy to spend mega money on him. Our needs right now are all over the middle of the park. Great player that he is, I can't understand why we would spend huge money on another forward when we have so many other areas where we are weaker and in need of radical investment

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Amen. There are an abundance of midfielders out there that would improve our current team / squad. We should keep the forwards that we have and concentrate on the middle of the park (and wings if we offload someone).

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13 Apr 2013 11:11:50
No one's mentioned Snydler but he's coming in the summer too!

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Well said AJH

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13 Apr 2013 05:05:00
Other than the Madrid game's first half I don't remember a game against any top opposition where we looked totally in control of a game.

Chelsea, City both outplayed us and it just doesn't feel right.

People say don't blame SAF he knows more then you blah blah.

Ok fine let's not blame SAF, but if he's ready to offer a 29 yr old striker 250k a week I think he should have offered a 27 yr old world class midfielder 250k a year before that, don't you guys think?

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Please don't bring Sniejder back into this.

-JakeW

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I totally agree. If we had snjeider, the treble would still be on. Simple!

Karni

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Just because we're in desesperate need of a central. midfielder doesn't mean we can't get exited about the possibility of Falcao joining us, no matter how slim the chances are.

Players the calibre of Falcao would improve any side they join, and will definetly make us a better team. It also gives the supporter more belief in the Galzers, and reinforces our position as one of, if not the, greatest football team in the world.

Apart from that, Midfield should be a priority. If we do get a decent midfielder, we can worry about other positions but that doesn't mean we xan't get siked that players like Falcao, Lewandowski, Goetze and co. are beeing linked to us.

I also think that buying Goetze shoukd be further up the list of targets than Falcao.

Mick

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Can someone please who knows facts what thsi guy is getting paid at Gala. I doubt it he is on 250,000k.

Ed002 please, I know you don't like to talk about money but just an estimate would be great.

Shahram {Ed002's Note - We have n interest in wages - you quote a figure without a currency - how could it possibly make sense?

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ED002 250k euros I meant.

shahram

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12 Apr 2013 21:27:51
any eds know why my post has dissapeared it went up 20 minutes ago and now I can't see it anywhere?
johndenton {Ed002's Note - No idea, sorry.}

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