Manchester United Banter Archive January 13 2015

13 Jan 2015 20:45:57
I have heard some good things about Timothy Fosu Mensah, a 17 year old centre back arrived in August from Ajax and believe he is playing for the youth tonight. Would be interested in hearing how he has played?

Didnt get to see the game but reading the match report sounds as though he played well

13 Jan 2015 23:00:15
Didn't watch today's game, but watched him in a few games earlier, and by the looks of it, he's ready to step up to the u21. He looks like a really dominant figure, quite skilled, can play as a central defender or as a center mid, got really good technique, and plays at a much higher level then most of the other guys in the u18 in my eyes. So hopefully we'll see him a lot for the u21 next season, got high hopes for this guy!

Noxaliciuos

Thanks, that is along the lines of what I heard. High potential, I look forward to taking a look to see for myself

I didn't see the game either although i saw a great pass he gave for our goal!

Red man I watched the game and in my opinion he was the best player on the pitch last night. I don't usually watch the under18's just u21 and first team but it was free entry so popped over to watch. Difficult to judge someone over one game but if his level of performances are the same as yesterday he has a chance to make it as has a good build and was technically very sound with the ball showing a good array of short and long passing. Our right back caught my eye as well. That said hull u18s are at a lower level than utd so quite hard to judge exactly.

Red man forgot to say but he played more a midfield role yesterday. Just thought I would mention it if he is a defender.

I watched the game last night red man and Mensah stood head and shoulders above every player on the pitch, his physique looks that of a 21 year old not 17 which i'm sure is a good advantage to have but not only that he is very calm and controlled on the ball and always looks to play forwards which he can do with speed, last night he sat in a defensive midfield role but was still carrying the ball forwards instead of just offloading it for others to do that job, the one tackle he put in was immense and got the biggest cheer of the night, obviously I don't want to big him up to much and say he'll be a world beater but I do have high hopes, would not be surprised to see him turn out for the u21's sometime this season he looks that far advanced, keep a look out for Gribbin as well, looks a very classy, confident talent, hope this helps.

Thanks all

Definitely one to look out for

13 Jan 2015 15:06:27
Could this [article] go down as a blog post please Eds.

Manchester United Tactics and the future.

{Ed033's Note - Hi Shappy, you were emailed by us on whether you wanted your blog post on our Football News articles site instead of here and whether you would like to be an author on our football-news-views site

Interesting post Shappy, I commented on the blog, but probably best to address my 2 points here for wider discussion if people want to.

1. If Koeman didn't do as LVG expected, why did LVG do nothing about it during the game? He was going to play 3-5-2 irrespective of the opposition in my view, all he has done from the bench aside from sit down and work on a crossword is replace a goalkeeper for penalties during the World Cup and bring off McNair against Southampton as far as I'm concerned, no other significant "management decisions" have been made during a game, major failing for me. Very little changes from game to game or during a game, managers should react if they get things wrong, not dig their heels in. RVP plays irrespective of form, players have to do exactly what he wants irrespective of their ability or experience, which is just plain crazy.

2. I think we would get punished aerially and physically with the players and formations you suggest. However I do agree that 4-3-3 is ideal and this can be adaptable, rather than the way he currently has us playing.

The very fact LVG has played the same system whenever he can, despite saying we don't create chances after virtually every game tells me he would rather us suffer until we get his way right, rather than playing to the current players strengths. If the players aren't capable then replace them with the players you want, but don't force them to try and do something they have shown repeatedly they can't do. Play to our strengths otherwise we get what we are seeing week in week out, there has been no improvement in our play since the Swansea game. Any honest person who is not biased will say there is no improvement despite being much farther along.

What really irks me is that most of the time he says what I thought of the game afterwards unlike Moyes used to (he lived in a fantasy land), yet nothing changes from week to week, it's like he knows exactly what's wrong, but deliberately won't do anything because it means his philosophy is wrong for the time being. Pride comes before a fall and I would have thought with his obvious intellect he would have understood the team is not yet ready for his ideal system.

I personally would give him time if he showed a desire to adapt, not just talk the talk. I pitied Moyes's delusions, where as I despise LVG's obvious ambivalence.

I must admit beast, that irks me too: He says what I think of the game. Identifies the problems; but doesn't seem to act decisively to redress the problem.

I have read a lot of articles about LVG - and written by him. The guy knows his stuff better then the vast majority in football. He is an intelligent individual as well. Yet, it does seem like he is a 'my way or the high way' type of guy. But it is obvious that a number of players - most notably the defenders - are having trouble taking in the information he is giving them.
As for not being adaptable, I would have to disagree. He did adapt after the defeat to Leicester. he adapted the system and personnel, although much of it was forced through injury. He brought Fellaini and Carrick back into the fold. Two players who I generally don't think were in his plans when he took over. But he realised the rigors of the PL and has adjusted things to the detriment of our attacking play. If anything, he has become too cautious. Sundays game is an excellent example of that

I personally think we should return to a 442 diamond, or the 41312 that he used against Hull, where we basically flooded the CM area and recycled the ball quickly.

The manager knows what he is doing. He just needs to take the breaks off and let the team fly.

13 Jan 2015 19:37:17
Really good post as always shappy

Earlier post got taken down for some reason but good post shappy

Great read Sappy, more of those please :) . You mentioned Winston Reid in one of your write ups, do you think he is an option in one of your suggested formations?
I don't say this often, but i agree with Beast; 4-3-3 seems ideal.
Samthered,
What formation did we use against hull?

Beast, I think LvG is being stubborn with his tactics but the players do need to learn new tactics and formations. Its just taking longer for them to get to grips with them than anyone thought it would.

But then again i don't think we have been good from a tactical point of view since 2008, that's 7 years now. So for a lot of these players LvG is having to teach them tactics 101, which shouldn't be the case at a top club.

as for your second point I don't think that would be the case, certainly it could be a concern. But like i said you adjust your tactics and personal depending on who your playing. If you think you will lose the aerial battle in the centre of defence then you sit your full backs deeper and cut out the crosses, alternatively you could play someone who is stronger in the air if it really is a problem against certain opposition.

For me the problem with playing a three man defence is the fact that the midfield aren't engaging the opposition high enough up the pitch limiting the space and time our defenders have on the ball, for me three at the back works but you need to play a high line and pressure from the front.

mbd, the formation we actually used against Hull was 433, But you had Carrick who would drop back and sit deep almost in between the two CB's. And our full backs in that game? Young and Valencia who pushed high up the pitch allowing the wide forwards the licence to move in field and find the space and exploit it.

Shappy - great points mate, agree completely then.

With our players looking very jaded towards the end of games, maybe this is why LVG is not having them press, he knows they don't have it in the tank, but maybe there is no rhyme or reason to it and its just bad decision making. It is all very strange, but you and I are on the same page with what we want from our team. If we don't replace LVG I hope he starts bending a little bit so the players can start performing to their strengths.

Shappy, really good post. I know not everyone cares for formations discussions but personally I enjoy trying to understand the intricacies of each and why certain players are not suited to each.
I am in agreement with a lot of posters on here that 352/532 does not work for us at the minute (whether it will I just don't know).
For me a 433 is preferable with this having the adaptaion to 353 with the right sort of players.
Over the next few games (I have stated previously this is our easier run without being disrespectful to those teams) we should be trying the 433. . utilise a fluid front 3 of Rooney/Falcao/Januzai. Let ADM be the attacking midfielder with Harera and Carrick in support.
Whoever the CB pairing is keep them and let them gel over a number of games. LB would be Shaw and RB we should give Rafael a chance to prove what he can do.
It will be a risk. . but at the minute i think it is worth doing.

13 Jan 2015 11:10:44
Does anyone know how Ben Pearson did for Barnsley on Saturday? Thanks

{Ed001's Note - starred for them mate. According to my mate, who was there, he was a class apart and they reckon they have signed themselves a gem.}

I think he is a cracking player.

Another good one lost IMO. I wish the lad all the best.

I haven't seen a permanent deal, I thought he was on a one month loan deal?

It's a one month loan guys

Good to hear.

13 Jan 2015 20:23:08
You were worrying me there, lads. I'd heard a loan deal, but thought I'd missed something. Good wee prospect.

13 Jan 2015 09:52:00
It is distressing how much negativity there is on this page now, quite clearly a lot of posters do not regularly go to matches to support their team. People calling for the manager to be sacked after 6 months in charge, people are 80% convinced that LVG is the right man for the job; there were plenty of people convinced that SAF wasn't the right man but given the chance to build his own team he proved them wrong. LVG has had to come in fix the broken dressing room that was left by the previous regime, adapt to a new league and culture, contest with a ridiculous amount of injuries and apparently needs to take the club from 7th to 1st in one season! Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it is getting quite boring reading the same repetitive posts.

13 Jan 2015 10:08:53
TOT96,

Careful with the realism and positivity, you will be labelled a one man band, we lost a match, LVG has no idea what he is doing!

I said the same yesterday, if anybody said about sacking LVG at Old Trafford on Sunday they would have been laughed at, nobody was saying it on the tram home, nobody I walked past said it but then you log on here and people are talking like we just lost 6-0 for the 4th straight game. Everybody was disappointed on Sunday, LVG made mistakes, he tried to outdo Koeman tactically and got it wrong, which he funnily enough is allowed to do.

Im prepared to give lvg this season to see some light at the end of the tunnel, but i think no top 4 means he won't be here next season.pointless being negative as what will be will be and you won't change lvg strategy(if he has one) but i must admit its not good at the moment, 6 points from the last 15 is not top4 form and with the talent availible and the money spent not having a single shot on target on sunday is a disgrace.

13 Jan 2015 11:14:44
I agree to an extent John but 6 points from 15 is being quoted everywhere, when you can also say we are 9 from 18 or 12 from 21 or 15 from 24. From the last 18 we have 9 points and are slipping according to the media and some fans, Chelsea have 10 points from their last 18 but are flying according to their fans. I couldn't care less about a depleted squad dropping a few points over a busy Christmas period as long as we are in the top 4 on 24th May.

13 Jan 2015 11:15:34
spot on GDS2

I said it on Sunday on the team home and I said it in Eccles as well when I got off

13 Jan 2015 07:54:10
I found Sunday's game incredibly disappointing. This was a game to push away from Southampton and get back to winning ways and we didn't manage 1 shot on target. There are a few things that are starting to bother me.

1. Why canHererra not get into the team? He has energy, is up and down, can score a goal, yet he is out favour. Blind was thrust straight back in for the whole game which tells us LVG prefers him.

2. What is the score with a Falcao? Yes he is expensive but to have 3 cabs on the bench and leave him out completely 'for tactical reasons' is bizarre.

3. With all the players we had available, we did not look threatening. It was back to high possession, low threat football. With RVP, Rooney, Mata, ADM all on the pitch, how is it possible not to have a shot on target?

4. We now have our 1st choice full backs available but continued with 3 at the back which is clearly not working.

5. We have the players to put out a creative attacking team that moves the ball quickly but we are not seeing it.

In terms of players, Mata is a lovely Ayer but for me he simply does not contribute enough. Rooney is not a CM, he needs to play up front, preferably its Falcao for a spell. I'd love to see Hererra get a run in the middle as he and ADM together would up the pace.

I know this is 1 defeat in 11 but it all seems a bit bizarre at the moment. We played well for 2 games and then slipped backwards again and I am not clear what LVG's infamous philosophy is (not convinced he is).

We appointed a Manager last year who was not far enough up the hill. I hope we have not now appointed one who is too far down the other side. Time will tell

Agree with all points made there mate. A lot of it is baffling atm I for the life of me cannot understand why we stuck with the 3 at the back, why Blind started the game when only a month ago the manager insisted that after an injury you would not go straight into the team (what he said about Falcao btw) and the thing that baffles me most is how we can't create chances !
I truly hope that stubbornness does not ruin another season and that the people around the manager tell him that things aren't working and need to change providing he would listen of course.

I'm beginning to think its more about the manager than the players. We have enough good players to make an impact yet they bore us to death with no attack, poor passing, and complete ignorance of what's going on around them. Yes we need a few players in important positions, but for me, LvG is the problem.

13 Jan 2015 09:08:41
AJH,

Agree with pretty much all of that, well said without the air of panic and overreaction I am seeing from other posters.

Just on point 4, I am hoping that we go to a back 4 once Rafael and Shaw are both fit, last season Valencia played right back a few times and was caught out of position, so maybe LVG feels he cannot play there, so when he plays he plays the back 3. Before jred jumps in and says 'but we played a back 3 with Shaw and Rafael last week' as he always does, I am saying I hope this is the case, not that I necessarily think it is.

Phil Jones did an interview after the game where he said the players are working on a formation with a back 3 and a back 4 in training so hopefully we will see the switch soon enough. LVG clearly doesn't think Shaw can last 90 minutes so that could be another reason for it.

I agree with you GDS2 and for me, this highlights that not only are our fullbacks unreliable, but we have no other options. As soon as a FB is injured we seem to have no other option than to revert to 3 at the back. There is simply no cover for them. I am not asking for LvG to go, but someone needs to remind him what United is all about. Our present style, or lack of it, is not the United way. We do not excite anymore, and OT has become just another ground for teams to go to. The fear factor is gone and that used to give us a head start. I guess other teams believe, but ours doesn't!

13 Jan 2015 11:22:38
Well thought out and put post as always Tony mate, many times u have been the voice of rational well put thoughts.

AJH,
Well said. I am left clueless as to why this disaster. Is it only because LvG is stubbornly persisting with the back three and because we have to many players playing out of position?

13 Jan 2015 14:50:10
Good post mate

13 Jan 2015 05:45:09
{Ed001's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Last chance saloon for Tottenham and Levy

13 Jan 2015 01:26:39
Out of interest all the passengers on the LVG out express, who would you like to see handed the reins at OT? In reality their isn't many coaches out there with top class pedigree who are available.

The only person who could take us to SAF highs is, in my opinion, Pep (who I believe City will go all out for after MP moves on). I hear Klopp mentioned but he is having a shocker of a season and I personally don't think he will leave Dortmund in turmoil, he doesn't seem that type of guy. Ancelotti has also been mentioned and as much as I like him he is having a ball in Spain leading Madrid to La Decima, managing the best player in the world and having the resources available to keep moving forward, he would be near impossible to prize away at the moment.

So who else is there at the moment?

13 Jan 2015 02:42:07
Simeone would be perfect.

How many of us don't want Giggs to take over from LVG??

The thing with Simeone is he is no doubt a fantastic motivator and a winner but he doesn't speak a word of English and although he has accomplished a lot at Atletico, United are by far a bigger club with huge expectations. If you are Simeone and your at a club that you love (where you probably have a job for life) why would you consider moving to a club who have shown in the last year to give managers very little time before calling for their head?

And as for Giggs he is a legend but he is nowhere near ready to take over at United. Like everyone else he must earn his stripes whether that be at youth level or with a smaller club.

I don't want Giggs anywhere near the managers chair.

I think Pep is a bit overrated, don't think he has ever had to make a team a winner, just keeps "inheriting" winning teams.
Simeone is an old Atletico player so he knows his team very well; history tradition expectations etc. To come to the EPL is a different ball game all together.
Klopp is having a bad year at his favored BD.
I say let Lvg see out his contract, we know from his track record that he has poor starts with new teams, so let's see what happens esp since he said 3 transfer windows. Manchester United cannot have a quick fix, it is either we allow for the necessary to be done or we become the next liverpool (God forbid)

13 Jan 2015 09:13:45
I don't really get the Simeone love in, he has done a great job at Atletico granted, but as Juanmata says he doesn't speak a word of English. What happens when we lose a couple of games under him, will everyone suddenly turn and say he doesn't have the premier league experience? If I have learnt one thing over the last 18 months its that United fans are fickle and have no patience, if the manager doesn't do exactly what a fan wants him to do and isn't called Alex then we should get rid, ignore the fact most managers need longer than 6 months.

{Ed002's Note - There is absolutely no suggestion that Simeone will be in Manchester for his next job - he knows what he wants next and it is not MU.}

Gds
How long did u give moyes

13 Jan 2015 10:47:07
I'm not on the LvG out bandwagon but one name that has been left off the list and was someone who was considered is Antonio Conte.

Picking the flavour of the month or the big name is one thing but it is important that when the time comes to replace LvG (be that at the end of the season or at the end of his contract) that we replace him with the right person.

Klopp for example has had great success with Dortmund but his personality fits well with the club, many other clubs wouldn't have given him the time to build that Dortmund did. In fact many wouldn't have given him the job in the first place. But as has been shown this season he is far from perfect. For me he is a very good manager but i would put him in the same category as Rafa Benitez who let's not forget over turned the Barca/Real strangle hold on La Liga before he came to England.

Simeone has done just that himself with Atletico last season. But is Simeone's style of play at AM really what we would like to see at United? Solid defensively with big strong and quick players working hard and hitting on the counter after soaking up the pressure. Now does he play that way because he has no over choice or does he play that way because it's his own style. His teams style is certainly reminiscent of his own playing style. His teams playing style is very similar to that of Mourinho's first Chelsea team and his Inter team. Certainly its effective but its not so pretty on the eye, a style that is easy to accept if your winning titles but if your not then maybe its not quite so much fun to watch your team sit deep and hit on the counter at home to lose a game.

Pep Guardiola is another interesting choice and one who could work well. But he had his most success with his Barca team that he has a very close affinity with, it was a team that he had close to his heart and was well used to having played for them during his playing career. He also knew the club from the ground up having been involved in the youth system. That maybe allowed him to get the most out of Messi who hasn't quite hit the same hights since he left Barca. He then left because the pressure got too much for him, he had achieved all the success he could but yet they still wanted more. So he walked away from the club he loved. That for me is a little worry, if he could walk away from the club he loves when the pressure got too much then what would he do at a club he doesn't have that same affinity with.
He then went to Bayern the club who had replaced his old Barca team as the top team in the game, an easy job or a poisoned chalice? He has certainly managed to keep Bayerns strangle hold on the Bundesliga but with a waning Dortmund side and only a mild challenge from teams such as Schalke or Wolfsburg then it doesn't quite look as good an achievement. In europe he has taken Bayern from the pinnacle to a level just below, Real Madrid have replaced theme as the worlds top team and as yet Bayern don't look ready yo usurp them. He has brought in several changes in tactics and formations which haven't helped but he has done so to put his own stamp on the team, and imo to the detriment of the team. He has never rebuilt a a team just made slight adjustments. There for imo he could be a success at United but only after 90% of the work rebuilding the club s done, that way he can just tweak it to succeed. But that time certainly isn't yet.

Antonio Conte transformed a sleeping giant into the dominant team in Italy, he is a great tactician and motivator and is well versed in mind games as all the top Italian coaches are. The issue with him is his Juventus team always faltered on the european stage, was that down to his poor tactics or down to a weakness in the playing staff or just because the step up from Serie A to Champions league has become such a large one due to the falling quality of the league? We won't know until he manages another UCL team and see how he performs with them.

Joachim loew is another contender, he has guided and talented young german team to the pinnacle of world football and became the first manager to win a world cup with a european team on south american soil. He is a very good manager who has shown he is able to make the most out of what he has and knit together a group of players to put aside ego for the great good. But he hasn't been a club manager for a long time, and it is fair to say he has made more of being a international manager than he has of being a club manager.

Marcelo Bielsa is the coaches choice for best manager, but hasn't translated his success in south america to europe as yet. He also has a touch of the odd ball about him at times which i don't think the european players quite connect with. But he is possibly the best tactician in world football and he always get his players to give 100%. An interesting choice but somewhat of a gamble imo, i think Serie A would be his best destination. I think he would be awesome at a club like Juventus or maybe even the man to turn around AC Milans problems.

Jorge Jesus is a name i rarely see mentioned and that puzzles me. As he is a first class manager who consistently gets his Benfica team punching above their weight in europe. A great tactician and man motivator. He really should have had a chance at a top club by now. His age could work against him though.

So let's look at a younger manager,

Frank De Boer, he has shown in his short career to have all the tactical knowledge and attacking instincts we expect from a top Dutch coach. He has set several records in his short career as a manager and has shown he is an intelligent and measured man in the decisions he has made so far. He is one of the best up and coming managers in the world and could be a great option to take over our club in the future(near future maybe?).


For me it would be between Conte and De Boer, but then i tend to look more long term and want to see a younger man given a chance to build something special.

Maybe we need a dynamic up and coming manager instead of old dinasours.giggs isn't the answer, i think simeone has the passion and plays good attacking football, the language barrier wasnt a big problem for pochitino when he arrived and we already have 5 spanish speakers in the squad.lauren blanc maybe ? who knows let's wait till may to find out.

Simeone does remind me of a young jose and would be my first choice with loew not far behind.
Conte another manager who likes 3 at the back

13 Jan 2015 13:10:34
De Boer for me, in 2.5 years.

Low for me would be a very good choice experienced and respected
Conte is a good manager but he has won a half decent Italian championship and plays three at the back
Simone dosen't speak a word of English but there is enough Spanish speakers at the club
De Boer would be a good choice he plays good attacking football has shown he can beat the best and is a long term option
So De Boer Low and Simone would be all good choices