Manchester United Banter Archive March 14 2018

14 Mar 2018 18:08:28
I'm not going to even comment on last night as I'm still unable to process our flat display. I'm trying not to have a knee jerk reaction as Sevilla on their day can be dangerous, I believe they scored plenty vs Liverpool in the same comp for example but enough of that, what I want ask Ed's and fellow players, what is up with Paul Pogba? Has he downed tools, is he just young and inconsistent? Some shocking performances of late.

{Ed001's Note - that is how he has always played. The problem is that most people only see the highlights, those flashes of superlative skill that he does show on a regular basis, without realising that they are interspersed between long periods of ineffectiveness. Without a partner to do the graft alongside him, he is being caught out.}

14 Mar 2018 18:45:19
Great point ed001,
I look at him now and he has bulked up considerably. He has lost a yard of pace and lost most of his nimbleness as a result. His confidence is very low and his play has been poor. I would get him out of the gym and let him spend those hours out on three pitch with a bag of balls.
I believe him and sanchez in particular suffer from the lack of movement around them. Players without options are so easy to get tight to and close down. We hand over possession every 10 seconds because the player recieving the ball is static and then nobody moves for him.
Some of that is tactics and some of it is down to the players.
Mata is our only attacker that can look after the ball all the others lose it continually. Lukaku is improving in that regard but is still a bit hit n miss.

{Ed001's Note - personally I would get them all playing some small sided games on small, tight pitches. Maybe the old 6 v 4 game Cruyff used to get his players playing. That will bring back quick feet and allow him to regain confidence in his ability.}

14 Mar 2018 19:14:45
Thanks for your views Ed. It’s a very frustrating United team to watch all round atm, we are like a nearly team, can’t quite click for more than short periods.
All I see from Pogba atm is the Rooney Hollywood pass, McTom has come in, kept it simple and looked the part, sometimes it’s not all about the star name but the lesser lights that make a team tick.

{Ed001's Note - it is always about the lesser lights imo. You need some people to do the donkey work or the flair players can't shine. I don't see how it is a nearly team, it is doing exactly what Jose wants. Defend deep and lump it up to the big man to bring others into play on a quick counter. That is his way when it is the big games, as he believes passing teams are susceptible to long ball tactics and struggle to break down tight packed defences.}

14 Mar 2018 19:33:45
Ed001
thats on the money United are second in the league doing what Jose does .
Last night was shocking but I can't criticise United in the league it's Jose doing what he does I'm not sure what people expected or expect next season .
As for pogba it's still about potential he was never juve best player people bought the hype .
Has all the attributes really has but has he got the desire .
I honestly think he has bags of talent in fact he has got to where he is with out fully pushing himself .
But to get to the very top it's not just talent it's as much about mentality and he still hasn't proved he has that.

{Ed001's Note - at times Pogba can be breathtaking, but it is not even a 90 minute thing with him, it is a few seconds here and there during a game. He is a playground player, someone who is more interested in his style and looking good than what he achieves. Man Utd must be like a scene from White Men Can't Jump, as Jose is the Woody Harrelson character, who just wants to win, no matter how ugly, while Pogba is like Wesley Snipes' character and is all about looking good first, winning second.

You need a hard runner alongside Pogba, someone to wake him up the way Vidal used to. He ran much more with Vidal because it is inspiring when your team-mate is charging about, you up your game to compete because otherwise he is the one that looks good to the fans and Pogba needs to be the one who looks good.}

14 Mar 2018 20:39:25
It's frustrating because he has the talents and the physical attributes to be outstanding .
He has been asked to be the main man at United but I'm not sure it's in his character.
Hopefully he learns from this downturn and comes out the other side.
Problem is it might be a lot easier to move brand pogba on .

{Ed001's Note - it might also be a lot better if he has not understood the work ethic required to make it at the top level yet.}

14 Mar 2018 20:44:23
Nice analogy Ed I like that!

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate, though I think we are showing our age in even knowing that film!}

15 Mar 2018 08:50:03
No doubts we are improved on where we was under LVG, 6th to 2nd, won 2 trophies, could win another this year, I still don’t see us playing to the best of our ability atm though which maybe a good sign, I’m sure Jose will continue and we will see improvements and I’m glad, I want Jose to finish the job through.
What I mean about not quite clicking is we seem to nearly complete a good move, nearly make that final pass, nearly beat that last Man, but it never quite happens often enough so maybe the extra 10% will fall into place naturally.
We are such an odd team, to play how we did vs Liverpool then how we did against Sevilla, maybe that’s a sign we are not quite at the level required yet or are young and inconsistent, again I’m sure another year will see bigger strides, always next year eh lads ahem x.

15 Mar 2018 12:23:33
Ed001 - sadly agree with pogba comments but find it a heap distasteful that another player is needed t wake him up!
He is not the only one as I find the team in general (way they play) devoid of energy and movement. Surely JM isn't blind and can see the top teams movement and the way that players drop in if one goes forward or out of position. Think it was Dixon who summed it up, that we have the individuals but they don't play as a team.

{Ed001's Note - I am sure he is not blind to the problems, the big question is whether he is capable of fixing them or not?}

15 Mar 2018 13:54:33
The problem is Jose and the only way he can fix it is to leave.

14 Mar 2018 17:35:02
Not only was our team embarrassing last night our support was aswel. It's quiiet for most home games to be fair but champions league nights especially for important games is usually decent It's asif a lot of our fans just come and expect to be entertained and feel like they have no part to play in the game. We need to be the 12th man from the first minute to the last. Granted we had nothing good to shout about last night but that's no excuse to sit there in silence all game.

14 Mar 2018 18:20:34
Nah mate. It works both ways. If the team can't be arsed then usually the crowd isn't either.

It's a bit difficult to get enthusiastic when the players are ambling about with no intent.

Mostly I just sensed disappointment and anger at the manager and his tactics along with the players and their lack of effort.

£500 million to boot it long to the big man? Really?

14 Mar 2018 16:43:49
I've now had time to digest Jose press conference.

His comments about him knocking Utd out of the CL are just bizarre and honestly I find them rather insulting.

His Madrid team contained one of the best players to have ever graced the game and they were heading out but for an apparition from the referee who deemed it appropriate to send Nani off for a high boot. Until that moment his Madrid team had been out fought and out played by an arguably inferior Utd team.

His Porto team now renowned for his infamous touch line celebration needed a last minute reprieve from a goal keeping blunder to see him progress. This was despite a perfectly legitimate Scholes goal behind wrongly ruled offside. But for a fortunate last minute equaliser that would have seen us play in our 8th successive champions league quarter final.

If VAR was available then surely Nani's red card would have changed to yellow and Scholes goal would have rendered Porto's last minute equaliser meaningless and Jose would probably have been eliminated on both occasions.

To suggest Utd are accustomed to early CL exits is nonsense. In the past decade Utd have won the competition once, reached the final twice and the semis on at least another occasion if my memory serves me correctly. This is despite not even qualifying for the competition in two of the last 4 years and the Club being thrown into turmoil since the retirement of Fergi.

In any case the two victories in which Jose appeared to brag were more down to good luck rather than good judgement and Utd didn't turn in anything like the cowardly and insipid display we witnessed last night.

I'm not sure what point he was trying to make but to alienate the fans after such a dreadful performance compounded his poor judgement as much as his team selection.

I'm so confused right now I don't even know what point I'm trying to make.

Sorry the the frequency and length of my drivel today but it's beats sitting in a darkened room and talking to myself.

14 Mar 2018 17:02:24
Jose has won 2 of his last 10 games in the knock out stages of the CL.

It's not great and you do wonder if football has moved on .
Can Jose take us to the next level .

14 Mar 2018 17:16:42
Jred - I honestly don't know pal. Up until last night I was right behind him and I'm loathed to write him off based on one performance but it was that bad last night I'm still livid nearly 24 hours later. It was a real water shed moment for me. Where was the courage, bravery on the ball, intensity in our play?

Maybe once the dust has settled I can be more objective and may be even embarrassed by my own over reaction given I've always backed him but I'm struggling to process it all today. It was the nature of the defeat that hurt the most as I think we've got some really talented players. Maybe Ken is right and most of the players are simply not good enough. I just don't know!

{Ed025's Note - one thing is for certain danny last night was unacceptable and its pot as if it was a one off, i would say his time is up mate..

14 Mar 2018 17:34:00
Danny
Sanchez was world class only 2 month ago?
Pogba a future European footballer of the year when we bought him .

Do you not think last night was a lot like watching Chelsea before Jose got sacked?

14 Mar 2018 17:34:55
Great post Danny. Jred I would I agree that football has moved on. He is still deploying the same tactics that has brought him so much success. And some would argue why change when it’s brought him so much success. But that’s why Fergie had such longevity at the top. He changed his coaching staff consistently and hired the top coaches at the time so that he would not go by the way side like Wenger and dare I say Jose. It was only when pep came that I think Fergie knew he couldn’t compete. What I’m saying is in anything you have to adapt and change to the circumstances Of your environment. It’s like when the internet was invented and a company decides it won’t use it to set up a website so people can order online. Eventually your competitors will overtake you. It’s all ego with Jose unfortunately. I don’t think he can take us to the next level. We may get second and may win the FA Cup but for me it papers over the cracks if we play negatively to get there.

14 Mar 2018 22:22:33
Do you think he should be sacked jred?

14 Mar 2018 12:04:45
My United friend of 50 years sent me an email this morning asking what I thought of last night.

Firstly, I am astonished by how uninspiring and ineffective Sanchez has been. I had thought his poor form at Arsenal was down to discontent but now I'm not so sure. Maybe he's just lost his edge. In which case the club will now be saddled with his enormous wages, essentially becoming the new Wayne Rooney, for the next 4 years. Or perhaps its the set up he's being asked to operate in.

In general though, I thought we deserved to lose. There seems to be no cohesion in the team at all, and certainly not enough effort and desire. Sevilla looked so much more accomplished with great movement, deft touches, fluidity and width. Our inadequate performance could have been partly down to fatigue having played Liverpool on Saturday, and/ or a complacency/ hubris after the victory, and/ or a poor tactical plan, and/ or our players are simply paid far more than they're worth. But most of all I put it down to our even more turgid performance in the first leg, which set us up to fail last night by ensuring that Mourinho would primarily be playing not to concede a goal. It was very disappointing.

I understand that Mourinho made some comment about how it's nothing new for United to lose at home in the ECL, that he won at OT with both Porto and RM. After a comment like that I would be looking for a new manager.

14 Mar 2018 12:48:18
Agree about sacking him after those post match comments but will still give him the benefit of the doubt as he had nothing else to be positive about.
This game reminded me of last years europa semi finals where we got away with the same approach had it not been for the ex man city striker.

14 Mar 2018 12:54:49
shaw,

As always these things get taken well out of context, he was saying the club isn't screwed just because we lost in the CL, it didn't come across like he was bragging but reading it you would think he banged on about how amazing he was.

There was 10 things worse last night than his post match comments, just got everything wrong.

14 Mar 2018 13:30:25
Gds stop defending him, he isn't some guy whose English isn't really good. He knew what he was saying very well. We have reached a stage where a utd manager is basically telling fans that we are used to mediocrity and it isn't his fault. I don't care if he wins the FA cup or not he needs to go.

14 Mar 2018 13:35:23
Really GDS? To me it came across like he was highlighting his ability to win CL games, and contrasting it to our losses - i. e. Jose ain’t the problem, the club is.

14 Mar 2018 13:47:20
Must admit I sort of saw it like that too danny .

Why couldn't just say we had a bad day and deservedly got beat is beyond me.

14 Mar 2018 13:50:52
Yeah, no need to say anything other than it was a bad performance, let the fans down, going to make sure that we improve, etc.

Only reason to bring up his two CL wins at Old Trafford is to stroke his own ego.

14 Mar 2018 19:39:31
Ah too soon then 😂. I just don’t care about press conferences and think people care too much, I’m more interested in what happened on the pitch which was unacceptable.

14 Mar 2018 10:57:18
There are no excuses for the three hours of turgid rubbish that Utd served up against a team that will be knocked out easily in the next round. Imagine what Klopp or Guardiola could do with the attacking players that Utd have? I can't stand watching the team that I love under Mourinho and nothing will change until he's gone.

{Ed007's Note - You do know that Sevilla won THREE straight EL finals prior to Utd's victory last year don't you? Did you think Utd just had to turn up to win?}

14 Mar 2018 11:26:29
Roger who are the great attacking players?
Lukaku is hitting his usual goal return rash is a kid that might be great.
Martial is a young player who might be great
ibra is finished
Sanchez only in the door
Mata good player but not great.
Who are these great players you speak of.
A squad without afull back of note
Who are are great midfielders.
A price tag doesn't make you great. Great performances make you great.

14 Mar 2018 11:31:22
Exactly roger everybody left will be rubbing their hands at getting Seville. I can’t believe where we are as a football club since Fergie left. Hundreds of millions spent and serving up utter turgid dross. I preferred the 80’s to this dross.

14 Mar 2018 11:19:18
Yes ed, a lot of people (not talking about the OP) do think that.

{Ed007's Note - It's footballing snobbery because the vast majority fans of English clubs think that the only good teams in Spain are Barca and Real Madrid or Bayern in Germany when in fact both leagues are technically vastly superior to the EPL.
I did expect - and hope - that Utd would go through but I knew it wouldn't be as easy as some people thought.}

14 Mar 2018 11:25:06
Top reply Ed . Our players took it very easy yesterday and just thought they would roll Sevilla over. We fully deserved to lose.

{Ed007's Note - People can make all the excuses they want and moan about the manager and players but the fact is in cup football ALL that matters is being in the next round and Sevilla done that and as you say, they fully deserved it. If Utd had won 1-0 last night and went through there'd be a few posts moaning about the performances but they would be easily shot down by the posts saying in cup football being in the next round is the only objective.}

14 Mar 2018 11:25:41
Aye, and Utd won it last season. Are you seriously trying to defend the wretched football that Utd served up in those three hours? We were way beyond embarrassing in that tie.

{Ed007's Note - No I'm asking why you think a team that's been in and won a European final 3 out of the last 4 years and that have just put Man Utd out of the CL after winning at OT will be knocked out easily in the next round?}

14 Mar 2018 11:36:35
Yea Liverpool will be rubbing their hands at getting the team that beat them comfortably in the EL final less than 2 years ago.

14 Mar 2018 11:32:22
Ed 007 you’ve hit the nail on the head. I think not only did most fans, but the manager and players seemed to think it was a case of turning up and we’d win. The atmosphere seemed flat because the fans expected the same, granted they were given nothing to cheer about.

{Ed007's Note - The atmosphere at OT's always flat, Caolan. Far too many prawn sandwich munchers, half 'n' half scarfers and tourists who would rather sit and Tweet or take pictures than actually support the team.}

14 Mar 2018 11:39:28
ed007 that was sevilla of 2 years ago they sacked their manager mid season because they have been very poor. Madrid smashed them 5-0 coming off a run of 4 la liga games without a win. Atletico madrid and Eibar of all teams put 5 past them just last month. This team was there for the taking we played them like we were some tiny club and they Barcelona or Real madrid in their prime.

{Ed007's Note - Madrid are capable of taking 5 off any team on their day and Eibar are only 6 points behind Sevilla in La Liga. Didn't Man Utd lose to Newcastle a couple of weeks ago, oh and Spurs although I don't know what league results have to do with anything, PSG took 5 off Metz last week after being put out the CL by Madrid, is that the same kind of comparison as you're making? They also beat Marseilles 3-0 in the league and the cup in between losing home and away to Madrid.}

14 Mar 2018 12:16:16
Liverpool are a much stronger team than two years ago. They and everyone else will be hoping for Seville. Let's not kid ourselves here, or try to make them up to be something they're not.

14 Mar 2018 12:33:11
It was a bit like watching hazard Costa and co before Jose got sacked when they where just above relegation .
Flat disjointed no passion .

14 Mar 2018 13:22:16
ed007 a team that routinely concedes 5 goals in a single game isn't exactly as good as you are making it out to be. Of the top 10 teams in La Liga only 1 team has scored lesser goals than Sevilla while only 4 teams in entire la Liga have conceded more goals than Sevilla. They are an average team who will get easily beaten by a top club. We treated them like they were some almighty team we should be scared of and paid for it.

{Ed007's Note - Are you saying that Utd aren't a top club?}

14 Mar 2018 13:56:45
Until mourinho goes no we aren't. Every time we play a half decent team he reverts to his Stoke city 11 behind the ball defense, that is not what top clubs do.

14 Mar 2018 16:16:41
To everyone blarting off about liverpool. Did you guys sleep. with the scoursers. So much love in. Granted they play a lot better brand of football and scored lot more thanus.

BUT SEVILLA AND LIVERPOOL WERE IN THE SAME GROUP THIS SEASON AND THEY GOT A GRAND TOTAL OF TWO POINTS FROM TWO GAMES. DO YOUR MATHS IF THEY PUSHED SEVILLA OFF EASILY.

And before anyone points it out to me, last nights result and performance was f#£king unacceptable. Winning and losing are parts of the game it happens but you have show desire, grit and it seemed the team, bench and fans at the ground, nobody had it.

14 Mar 2018 10:47:16
ED 002

Hope you’re well. I know you don’t like speculating about the future, but will our poor performance in Europe concern the board and does it impact Jose’s immediate future?

{Ed002's Note - No.}

15 Mar 2018 05:51:52
Thanks for the reply Ed 002. We have to accept the situation and be grateful that at least we’re better off in the league than the past few seasons.

Ed: Do you know if we have any manager plans for the post-Jose era (similar to the what was planned post-LVG)?

{Ed002's Note - Not as far as I know.}

14 Mar 2018 10:16:35
I said after the 0-0 draw in Spain it was a poor result, a result which left the tie difficult for us. A lot of posters hailed it a good result. It's yesterday, knowing the situation that just one Sevilla goal makes it difficult, we should of set up to attack them a score goals, press them high up the pitch and take it to them. When I saw the team sheet I knew we weee going to yet again try to contain, a dangerous game which backfired massively. Jose's tactics are pathetic to be honest. You can see it in the faces of Sanchez, marital, Pogba etc. He's not right, we're not progressing and I'm bored senseless watching us. Yet some posters will still come here week after week kidding themselves were a force.

14 Mar 2018 10:44:58
Stand - That performance last night was that bad it even made me question if he's the right man now.

I don't think the high press or possession football is anything new and Jose has had success in recent times it's not like he's gone years without winning anything and he won the title with Chelsea less than 3 years ago.

I just don't remember any of Jose previous teams being so bad. So devoid of ideas, so disjointed, so passive, so inconsistent.

Maybe it's the weight of expectation, maybe we lack real leadership in the boardroom and a vision of how we want the Club to play.

Three different mangers with completely contrasting styles tells it own story.

There is a real disconnect between Jose and a lot of our fans and even whilst results have improved many are still very unhappy with the style of play.

They can be appeased whilst results remain good but I get the impression we're only ever one bad result away from a crisis. The swathes of empty seats after the second goal went in was a damming verdict of a truly awful night. It screamed of well we're out now so if you think we're going to endure any more of this rubbish you must be mad.

I'm starting to feel that maybe we will never really see the best of Jose at Utd. He's caught between wanting to play his own brand of football which is at total odds with the history and expectations of the fans. I think he had a similar problem at Real Madrid. Fans were appeased whilst results remained good but once performance levels dropped the inevitable questions about style resurface and anarchy on the terraces and in the dressing room ensues.

I get the impression Jose likes to be the under dog. He's thrives on being the pantomime villain and being able to forge that siege mentality. It's very hard to create this kind of atmosphere at Clubs like Utd and Real Madrid where expectation is so high and the need not only to win but to win with a certain style and arrogance is required.

At the moment he's appears haunted by the ghosts of our history. He didn't have this at Porto, Chelsea or even Inter and he was able to play his own brand of football without detractors from the outside constantly reminding him of his obligation to play a particular brand of football.

Maybe this is an over reaction to one bad result. Maybe I will be more objective once I've had more time to digest what happened but sometimes you are faced with water shed moments and I think last night was one of them.

I still think Jose is a very good manger, I still think his signings in general have been very good, I still think he has been a big improvement on Moyes and LVG, he has improved results, stabilised the club and returned us to Champions League football however I'm now starting to see this as a marriage of convenience. I'm not sure we'll ever see the football we all crave, his philosophy is at odds with our tradition and I'm not sure he'll be able to bring the level of consistency needed to compete with City without being braver and more courageous and daring to win rather than trying not to lose.

The recruitment of our next manger must be better. We must look for someone who not only has a winning pedigree but plays the style of football in line with the traditions and philosophy of our Club.

Until that time we might just have to accept that top 4 and a decent cup run is adequate considering what came before.

14 Mar 2018 11:27:08
Danny that is a fantastic post mate. I love reading your posts always informative and well reasoned so good on you pal.

I agree wholly in what you have said. I’ve always thought Jose was a top manager but like you said his tactics are a major issue. At Chelsea, inter and Porto he got away with it because in many ways he was bringing success that was unprecedented for them. But even at Chelsea they got sick of the negative style of play. At real he got away with it because he had players like Ronaldo, Ozil, Modric etc who won him trophies. But that ended in disaster as we all know.

I’ve always though Jose should have been signed straight after sir alex because he would have had a better platform to build us. His appointment was forced mainly because he became available after a torrid spell at Chelsea. But after last night I feel like even the staunchest Jose fans (such as myself) are starting to realise that he can’t get us to where we want to be. If we were winning the league then I think most people would be accepting of the style. But we are not even winning and pep ripped up the rule book and made jose’s Style even more turgid and insipid that it was before. The attacking players look devoid of ideas, passion and even desire. On paper we have players that should be tearing up teams but we set up to nullify opponents who are simply not worth the respect.

We don’t want to be known as a sacking club but I do think Jose has taken us as far as he can. I think he will have definitely have left the club in a better state than when he joined and the next manager will have some very good players to play with. All I want to see is for us to play with intensity, pace and passion. Is that too much to ask for? I highly doubt Jose will go in the summer but I fear he cannot give us the entertaining style of play that we want.

14 Mar 2018 12:37:34
Thanks Park and I agree pal. Maybe we're over reacting to a terrible night but it was the manner of the defeat, the nature of the tactics and formation and even the desire of the players which makes me question if our faith in Jose has been misguided.

Jose had a better platform at Madrid in which to challenge Pep's dominance and he doesn't seen to know what to with his own signings. On paper our best players in Pogba and Sanchez have become our worst performers. He doesn't appear to know how or where to play them and that can't be right surely! When your best players become your biggest hindrance you know your in trouble.

On a positive note I remember Jose's Inter team coming to Utd in 2009 with a certain Mr Ibrahimovic upfront and putting in a similar performance. They were dreadful but we're crowded European champions the next season. Wishful thinking I know but maybe just something to hold onto in the depressing days ahead!

14 Mar 2018 09:37:07
Any problem with my last post Ed or have you just had enough of me? It's fair enough I do have a tendency to spout rubbish I just find it cathartic that's all!

{Ed001's Note - no mate, sorry I had to pop out and pay some bills and grab some groceries. I never realised there was no one about to cover while I was out, apologies.}

14 Mar 2018 10:46:47
No problem thank you that performance has hit me hard.

14 Mar 2018 10:40:00
How dare you go out and live your life Ed, posts wait for no man 😉.

{Ed001's Note - apologies mate, I even sometimes stop to use the toilet, though I know I shouldn't!}

14 Mar 2018 08:26:34
Another false dawn it seems. Every time we think Mourinho might have cracked it he reverts to type and we lose with a whimper.

He has been a fantastic manager, one of the best in fact.
However, the key part of that last sentence was "has been".

His tactics can still be effective, but not as often as they used to. He has not changed his approach of philosophy in nearly 20 years. The landscape in football has changed dramatically in that time.

Jose still thinks the best way to defend is to have bigger stronger faster players. Yet Mac City don't have any defenders of defensive midfielders who fit that description, and yet they have conceded less goals than us.
Control of the game through use of space has out performed physical strength.

Last night we had a starting midfield of two players over 6'4 in height, the two midfielders we had on the bench we're both over 6'3.

Yet how mobile are they?
How good at controlling the game are they?
What technical skills do they have?

In a time where teams have looked to possession football for nearly 10 years, and high presses for 3-5 years we are choosing to hand possession over to these teams just so our big strong players can win it back. What is the point?

I'm starting to feel Mourinho might have taken us as far as he can, and I wonder if it is a good idea to allow him the time to pull down the platform he has built.

We need a couple of midfielders and a couple of defenders in the summer, the question is do we allow Mourinho to bring in those players in his mould knowing full well that these players will very likely out stay him at the club?

Do we need more Mourinho players? Or do we need players who can play the United way?

14 Mar 2018 08:25:29
Well, well, well.

I've not been happy with most of the performances all season but was pragmatic that we were at least better than we have been and moving slowly in the right direction. That performance last night has almost destroyed any benefit of the doubt I was willing to give. Is Jose trying to get fired? Are the players trying to get him fired?

I've been saying all season that I would give Jose time to get this right and I stand by that as I can't stand being a team that sacks managers after only one/ two seasons. But he is making it almost impossible to support him at the moment. I can forgive almost anything but a lack of desire and that was truly shocking last night. Almost like the players were saying to him, 'you want us to play like this? well this is what you get then. '

I am only praying that this was the night that the penny dropped with him and he will start to use them differently. Pressure from the players, the board, the fans. He is not an idiot - he MUST know that that wasn't good enough and that the fans will not stand for that.

Very interested to see the reaction in the next few games. An insanely optimistic response to last night might be to think that this is the game that finally sees a change in attitude. I just can't quite see it.

14 Mar 2018 08:06:44
I think everyone is in agreement that last night was a disaster and people are rightly blaming fellaini starting and poor tactics and attitude which I completely agree with but no one has mentioned de gea I thought he was at fault for the second goal which really put the fixture out of our reach.

14 Mar 2018 09:36:05
I think de gea has a bank of credit with us so large that he can score own goals at will and still come out standing tall.

14 Mar 2018 09:47:40
Yeah De Gea is rubbish, hopefully we will sell him to Madrid for a nice sum in the summer and sign Butland, should really push us forward to winning the league and Champions League.

14 Mar 2018 06:45:01
So having slept on it I don’t feel any better. My supportive post on Jose last week asked him to let the players play, sadly last night he reverted to type and did what we feared he would.

We were playing the team who are 5th on the Spanish League and we didn’t really attack or press them. There was clearly a huge fear they would score, our approach didn’t work did it?

I thought Jose’s comments after the match were outrageous, a shrug of the shoulders, these things happen, when a different selection or set up might have given us a completely different result. I take Ken’s point that some players are not good enough but I firmly believe our players are better than we are seeing. The issue last night was the set up, careful, tactical, defensive. 2 ponderous midfielders meant thee was little link up and we were dominated through the middle.

I’ve said if before, if Jose has a plan then I don’t see what is. Losing is one thing, losing like that is unacceptable.

14 Mar 2018 06:58:58
I do agree it was a horrible performance and to show that level of nonchalance afterwards really twisted the knife.

14 Mar 2018 07:03:57
Those comments to me seemed like Mourinho's we will make it difficult for newcastle moment, if the man after spending 300mn asks us to get used to cowardice and mediocrity then something is really wrong, i have been critical of him but i have always wanted him backed in windows and given a chance but this for me is the last straw.

Mourinho plays rubbish dour football which is as bad lvg's or moysie's just with much more expensive players so the results aren't as bad, time to get rid as we didn't spend 300mn for boring defensive cup wins.

{Ed025's Note - boring defensive cup losses you mean CSM, out of the CL with a whimper and thats just not good enough for a club of united,s stature mate..

14 Mar 2018 07:17:47
We did win the europa league and mickey mouse cup last season ed and are still in the FA cup.

{Ed025's Note - thats true CSM, i was expecting more than being a mickey mouse cup team for a club of uniteds stature though mate..

14 Mar 2018 06:33:27
Wow, pressed send and then just read Lukaku’s comments that some players were hiding! All is not right in the camp it seems.

14 Mar 2018 06:47:15
AJH

I posted last night long before I knew about his comments that I felt some players didn’t look comfortable under the pressure on the stage that is OT. They need to be found out and replaced.

{Ed025's Note - its not the players red man, get rid of the dinosaur in the dugout and the club can progress but until that happens be prepared for mediocrity mate..

14 Mar 2018 07:00:01
Taking cue from the manager ajh, when manager says to be thoroughly outplayed and beaten by dross like sevilla is something that is ok and something utd are used to, players aren't exactly going to be chomping at the bits to perform well are they.

14 Mar 2018 07:47:52
Agree fully with ed025 and csm. He is so out of touch with the way football should be played. He should go back to Italy where everyone wants to defend as they enjoy watching that kind of crap.

14 Mar 2018 09:25:50
Lukaku meant the players have their heads down in the dressing room not that they were hiding on the pitch, he clarified this later in the interview, just a language thing.

14 Mar 2018 09:56:28
Ed 025
very rarely disagree with any of the eds but it is the players also.
Pogba came on and gave the ball away in a dangerous position 1st touch, sanchez : say no more the rest of the team look disjointed and lethargic with flourishes from some but in general, and not usually someone who refers to stats but we are the lower end of mobile in the premiership in terms of workrate! The shower last nite epitomised the JM way and basically his way has been shown to be outdated and sussed out by other teams. We are not the force we were and are quite a way off with a very possible danger of turning into an arsenal or pool if we don't get on the right tracks soon. We will probably be linked with a 100m bid for sevilles goalscorer last nite as well as every other player that wants an improved contract or last big deal but we really need to get in players who want to turn up and play: that will make them stars and man utd worthy of the jersey, but more importantly, put the club back to where it is competitive again.

{Ed025's Note - he was a good manager once cooky but has not moved with the times, the likes of pep, poch and klopp play expansive attacking football which is great to watch and im afraid united is a borefest, it does not take brains to buy players for £100m and pay them mega bucks mate give me a good team player who plays with his heart every day, i hope united ditch him and get a manager befitting of the great club united are because the EPL needs a strong united..

14 Mar 2018 06:10:30
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 14th March 2018

14 Mar 2018 02:49:48
I may seem to be a plastic fan coming alive in the site when the team loses, but I have my 99 reasons.

Tactics. Poor team ethic. Poor team selection- all have been covered by fellow posters.
Let me add my cent of worth of opinion-

The biggest gripe I find when I watch our team is the lack of work-press they put in, it just feels that they are playing a friendly. Every other opponent always beat us with their work-ethic which United lack high time, it never justifies me how can an Athlete with such ridiculous wages just not run for 90 minutes. I would love to get beaten with our player's running like headless chicken instead of strolling in the park without any zeal and passion.

The management needs to have a serious look at the future roadmap for a very 'big' club like Man Utd. They can not take a back pedal and hence lose it over the years. It needs some serious sorting out, Spend money, get manager, get players but make some goddamn progress and win those fans back again who have been loyal from a very long time and deserve the best from United.

Sorry to say this, But City look minimum two times the team of United and they achieved it in two years with a dynamic new manager.

I think getting a ballsy upcoming manager should be the biggest change for a better faster great future

Surz.

14 Mar 2018 03:52:28
Good post Surz. I watched the game overseas so I don't know if Steven Nzonzi interview was shown to the masses, but the last thing he said was, "We thought Utd would press us more, it was surprising" or words to that effect. For it to be remarked upon by a rival player shows how easy a ride they got on the ball.

We are so lazy off the ball, the amount of times we won the ball back on account of a bad pass (not our pressing) and it just showed most of the team trotting or walking, no effort to move into a decent position or to support their colleagues. This was after 10 minutes until virtually the end of the game. Sevilla have really struggled of late, but we literally looked like it was a warm up session.

14 Mar 2018 07:01:58
Even when we did press it wasnt as a unit and if we didn't win the ball immediately we stopped and strolled back .
It was an unacceptable performance worst I've seen in ages.

14 Mar 2018 07:57:03
Excellent post Surz and I've been harping along about our lack of pressing and lazy attitude for 2 years.

14 Mar 2018 07:57:37
This is because we don't press, it isn't part of the strategy. We hold position, and pressing distorts the overall unit, it's almost like zonal marking. We hold position to minimise space, and wait for an error.

The only excuse I cam find is that jose doesn't trust the defence, but given his history I don't buy it, this is how he sets up a team.

14 Mar 2018 02:42:47
These were mourinho's comments post match "I've sat in this chair twice before in the Champions League, and I knock Man Utd out at home twice, with Porto - Man Utd out, and with Real Madrid - Man Utd out. So this is nothing new for this football club. "

Thank you mourinho for atleast acknowledging the fact that you knocked us out this year too.

14 Mar 2018 03:51:59
But we have never been knocked out looking like idiots with that kind of insipid performance and tactics.

14 Mar 2018 08:00:29
Those comments annoyed me more than the loss. He basically said: yeah we lost, but we're losers and we've been losers before so it's nothing new, you were losers when I played against you and you're still losers now.

Note how it shows a disconnect between him and the team, it becomes a them and not an us. Those comments were disgraceful and he should receive disciplinary action.

14 Mar 2018 01:48:47
Was at the game tonight and posted before it started that the line up was wrong.
Firstly jose.
Wrong team selection. Any team that includes fellaini is the wrong team that's only compounded by him being unfit and not match sharp. He has only started 4 games before tonight all season which is 4 too many and now we know why. He doesn't even want to be at our club so why is he still here?
Valencia. He is finished his legs have gone he is fit but his pace has gone he has been very poor for the last 2 months.
Bailly was our best defender tonight by a mile.
Smalling. Good against some teams but usually struggles against the more tecnical teams. Lindelof should have played tonight his distribution is better and he is more suited to the opposition we had tonight.
Young was ok for the most part but is probably not in the top 10 left backs in the epl
Matic played in midfield on his own
Fellaini is just rubbish one of the worst players to ever have represented our club. i'd send him to the reserves for the rest of the time he has to spend with us or send him on gardening leave. Absolute tripe. He does try but is just hopless
Jessie full of running but nothing went tight for him tonight.
Sanchez. Again no issue with his effort he has nobody moving ahead or beyond him and as a result gives the ball away consistently.
Lukaku did what he usually does. His performance didn't offend me as much as most
Rash. Terrible final ball from decent positions. He took about 8 set pieces never hit the target or found a player from a corner that was not playing for seville.
Mata played well he needs to play all games from here till the end of the season. He is one of the only players in the squad that can hold the ball and bring others into the game.
Martial. Did he even touch the ball. The west ham fan that ran onto the pitch at the eeekend covered more ground than martial does weekly.
Pogba was awful. Just looks short on confidence and effort and desire.
Some think this is a good squad i disagree.
I think jose is over achieving to have us 2nd in the league. Only his safety first approach has us there. If you let this bunch go toe to toe with teams every week we would be mid table.
1 great keeper
No even half good full backs.
1 top class cb and a couple that are decent on a good day but average the rest of the time
1 very good midfielder. In matic. And another in mctominay that is showing good potential and pogba who is massively under achieving given his ability
No wingers at all
Sanchez who looks lost and frustrated by the lack of movement and tactics.
Jessie not sure of his best position.
Rash a young lad also not sure of his best position
Martial not sure there is too much to say other than he is pretty much like pogba in terms of his lack of work rate and desire
Lukaku who is doing pretty well.
We have some good player playing ok
Some good players playing poorly but we also have too many bad players playing badly.
A squad devoid of full backs decent cb s and no wingers is not a good squad.
The only reason we are 2nd in the league is because of the negative tactics if this squad were allowed to be more expansive the lack of defenders and in the absence of midfielders and wingers we would be getting battered at times.
With the exception of matic lukaku and bailly and sanchez the rest of that starting 11 have been 5th 4th 5th and 6th in last 4 league campaigns. decent squads do better than that.
Decent squad my arse. Too many average joes.
2 full backs 1 cb 1 cm 1 winger at least required. Until then the best this bunch can do is to hope to carry out a game plan that protects the average joes.
Is anybody shocked we lost tonight? I doubt it. It can and will happen and because of the tactics emplyed to try and scrape through games it looks 10 times worse when we lose. Without a solid and creative base you can't play expansive football.
The manager is not blameless by any stretch of the imagination.
You get the odd bods saying pep would have them doing better. Pep had city in 2nd place with zabaletta sagna kolorov navas nolito fernando clichy mangala etc etc but he couldn't win with them. Even saint pep couldn't make a silk purse out of those sows ears no more than jose can do with fellaini valencia young smalking jones rojo darmian shaw etc etc. Would city be top of the league with tjose guys under pep? Not a cat in hells chance they are not good enough and that means its not a good squad.
We don't need big names we need better players, that gove their all until then results will be inconsistent just like the players.

{Ed0333's Note - how long did that take you to write mate? I applaud the content, application and your fortitude. I can certainly empathize with your pathos when Roy Hodgson was in charge of Liverpool and the latter part of Rogers Reign I was posting scriptures on the site, pouring my heart and soul into them, lamenting at the state of my team, the atrocious way we played and hoping beyond hope Hodgson/Rogers would resign. the It was cathartic and I’m not gonna lie and say it will get better soon because I think you guys are on a downward spiral but it’s football and anything can happen. Who knows Jose may go back to the Jose of old buy some nifty players and bang your back in your groove again. Hang on in there. At least you get your posts posted Ed’s 001 used to just delete mine lol.

14 Mar 2018 01:46:03
Fair play lads, you beat us, you might play absolutely rancid football and need the help of the officials to win but you beat us. Anyway, travelling, so not had access to the internet today. Fingers crossed we get you in the next round of the Champions League, would love to set things straight.

14 Mar 2018 00:23:48
This match was lost in the first leg where our performance was dreadful, hoping not to lose, rather than trying to win the game. That set up today's debacle where we had to play with too much caution knowing that any score draw would knock us out.

What was striking was the fluidity of Sevilla's game. Players seemed to know where their team mates were, displaying intricate passing movements and deft touches. Despite a few very good squandered chances that fell to us in the latter stages, they were the better side and overall deserved their victory.

Hopefully we will be in this competition next year, and if we are, then perhaps the manager and players will approach it with a different attitude, assuming that is that our players have as much talent as their ridiculous wages ought to command.

13 Mar 2018 23:58:47
Before commenting on the result I will admit I didn't watch the match. The stream wasnt loading and I fell asleep.

But this is un-f###ing-acceptable, going by the highlights it looks like we didn't play to win, it looked like we were ok if the 90 minutes ended with 0-0. We didn't show any real attacking intent. We were playing a Sevilla team that had, on paper, less quality than us but they showed more desire to get thoroug.

14 Mar 2018 01:50:33
Deeps on paper they spent less money but have better quality.