Manchester United Banter Archive November 14 2012

14 Nov 2012 22:59:45
Is it a case of Zaha or Ince, or are we looking at both regardless of how the other one goes? I for one would love to see both, but that's my greed shining through

14 Nov 2012 22:50:08
We should be glad the debt has reduced but one thing people are missing is the cost of the listing. It cost the club £7.9m to sell shares that gave us £60m to reduce the debt. That is two years interest reduction , so it will take two years to benefit us. That £7.9m is a years salary for a top player. Also people needs to consider when the Glazers will have to pay dividends on those shares? Meanwhile the Glazers took the whole value of half of the share sale with the club picking up the costs. Yes the debt is down but to get where we are it has cost us hundreds of millions, cash which could have built the South stand and furnished us with a great player or two. We still have no plan published on how the remaining debt will be repaid and will what they pay in dividends offset the reduction in interest?

We are not as badly off as we were but nowhere near as good a position as we should have been. There is no way I will cheer for one second about what has been done to the club. We will never get the money back that has been thrown away and when the debt is finally repaid some who cheer a reduction will cheer again whilst forgetting the hundreds of millions lost forever that could have brought far greater success to the club.

Red Man

We may not be in as good a position as we hoped but once the club was bought it was only ever a business sadly.

Pardoe

Very true Red Man, the Glazers have probably wasted a net of about £300m and that could have built a new stadium. It is a lot of money that has been wasted.

Sydney!

Forget the financial side of the club, united are about much more than finance, weve coped with being in a less well off financial situation than other clubs or the past 30 years. we can do it for another 30!

14 Nov 2012 22:08:15
Is there any possible loan moves in the pipeline for our young players. Players like henriquez,daehli,janujaz etc would benefit from playing first team football somwhere.

Cheers

Henriquez should be loaned out to a championship side sooner rather than later, while Daehli and Januzaj should be given some u21 experience, and hopefully they will go on the next preseason tour and earning a loan move to a championship side.

Mick

14 Nov 2012 21:53:51
do the eds feel united will target ince in jan and another winger in the summer. zaha and rodriquez are the names mentioned.

another point which il get slated for do you think it would make good sense to sell vidic for 20m and nani for 15m and replace them with zaha 12m ince 6m
hangeland 6m okore 7m and put in a bid for wanyama or sandro 15m or there abouts {Ed004's Note - No... Why sell a world class centre back and replace him with a player like Hangeland? Also I rate Nani ahead of Zaha and Ince and I can't dee either of the replacements making a big difference to the United team}

Thought id ask the questions thanks for answering i also think theres better out there like rodriquez tello reus gotze for example

14 Nov 2012 21:26:21
OMG FERGIE SIGN UP THAT IBRAHIMOVIC GUY! haha jus kiddin

14 Nov 2012 21:11:26
hmmm... i wonder if Joe hart will get slated in the press tomorrow, because Im sure if DDG was in goal for England tonite he would be killed!
Chris the REDman

Unfortunately, Hart plays much better for club than country.

He has been overhyped cos he's english
he not and never will be in the same league as casilias buffon neuer cech

Neuer? Don't put him up there with Buffon just yet. He is on pretty much the same level as Hart at the minute and is prone to the odd clanger himself. You talk about overhyping English players and yet you seem to be rating Neuer more because he ISN'T English.

TK-Red

Hart was poor tonight but has been v good overall this season
Jred

14 Nov 2012 20:08:50
Dear Ashley Young,

See what can happen when you use your left foot! If you could stop diving and do that more often I might start believing that you could play left wing for Man Utd.

Cheers

DodgyBanter

Someone needs to tell Welbeck to stop doing fancy flicks EVERYTIME the ball goes near him.

14 Nov 2012 18:36:52
for me, the worst thing about the glazers (apart from the debt) is the lack of communication towards the fans. And i don't mean a few token words from mouthpiece gill. I mean one of the brood coming out and saying "hi yes we appreciate your worried about the debt but we are working hard to reduce it and are committed to keeping the club competitive." i mean it wouldn't kill them would it.

Thats not gonna stop the doom and gloom brigade from saying the same things as before.

The debt is far from ideal but in the long term it looks like 2 steps backwards while moving 5 steps forward.

Mumbles

Mumbles your an person. i know the editors will be mad at me for being offensive. It isn't fair on persons to get compared to you. I AM KLOOT

Damm it Editors you could have been a little bit more inventive. I AM KLOOT {Ed007's Note - It is the filter that changes some words IAK. It could be a better change though, it's not as if you are calling anyone a 'kloont' is it?}

Klootyboy - For gawds sake if someone has a different opinion to you it doesn't make them a "person".
You must be really pissed off that the world hasn't collapsed due to those terrible Glazers. I bet the financial results were a massive disappointment for you.
Mumbles is no more a "person" than you are.
Keep taking the tablets (or get back on them)
Have a nice day.

Mike

14 Nov 2012 18:09:38
The financial statement released by man united was for previous times! if we can pay off debt and buy players and still make a profit , surely it looks bright for us considering we didnt get anywhere in cl last year! we will get better sponsors that start in 2013 and also more revenue !

I for one never like the glazers but when i take a look at success etc and how the club makes so much compared to others maybe its time we beleived in them!

Come on people the debt has dropped alot since years ago when it was arounf 800mil

Big V
syd your veiw on this ?

Big V if it's not too difficult for you who do you think has paid that 500 million. I AM KLOOT

Of course with their money... I believe they are the owner and the money earned belong to them

Of course with their money... I believe they are the owner and the money earned belong to them

14 Nov 2012 17:06:31
Manchester United are interested in signing Holgar Badstuber from Fc Bayern

Would be a class signing, will be one the best centre halves in the world in a coule of years

Anyone looks world class compared to Rio.

14 Nov 2012 14:58:21
For the regular observers of the Youth, who do you think is a better prospect between 17 yo Ravel Morrison and Mats Daehli?

Imo daehli is a much better prospect because of the attitude, but i think that ravel has more talent in him. I also think that daehli will go on to be the better player. What are your opinions?

Mick

I saw genius from Ravel, he was a truly world class talent, Daehli has a similar level of talent, but doesn't look quite so awesome, Ravel looked almost like Zidane when executing his tricks. From what I've seen, Daehli is more consistent and has a better head on his shoulders.

Percy

Without doubt daehli is the better prospect and im not just saying that because ravel left us,hes much better on the ball,better vision and has a much better range of passing,admittedly ravel had a better shot on him but overall im more excited about daehli,the way he carries the ball reminds me of messi a lot(dont jump on me im not comparing them)and he hardly ever loses the ball,his technical ability is fantastic,hopefully he can carry his potential into the reserves where hopefully we'll see him a fair bit this season then really kick on next season where hopefully he'll be ready for a loan if hes progressed as quickly as he has been lately,very exciting player.

phil

14 Nov 2012 14:14:23
according to press fergie is wanting sandro of tottenham.

Great player, strong athletic, just what we need in the middle of the park

He won't move though!

14 Nov 2012 13:43:06
Hate Liverpool Football Club as much as you want. But please SIGN THIS PETITION!

Anne Williams has been fighting for 23 years to get justice for her son and 95 other football fans.

She now has terminal cancer, so the inquest in to Kevin Williams' death must be brought forward!

Please do not let her pass away before she gets the answers she needs!!

Thank you.

Stone LFC

In such situations, football rivalries take a back seat. You ve got our full support.

Mick

Without question I will sign the petition, and would of thought the majority who come on here will follow suit. Perhaps a link to the petition would help!

No problem, a more than worthy cause

Gav

Stone lfc
Just signed it hope its successfull
Good luck
Onecut

14 Nov 2012 11:02:59
United's accounts will be released this afternoon and they should show a gross debt lower than £400m. I predicted a couple of months ago that it will be around £369m, but it's unknown how the purchases of RvP, Buttner & Henriquez will effect this outcome. Edward Woodward did mention something about £29m (I think) being paid out for players after the 30th June, so I think the £369m figure maybe distorted somewhat. We all agree that debt is something that we do not deserve and something that was dumped on us by our owners who quite frankly couldn't afford to buy us outright, but I am much happier now than I was in 2010 when we had a rumoured debt of around £800m. Where have all the rival fans with their 'one billion in debt' jibes now? We know the PIKs were never our debt, but they still never sat easy with us being there. They were paid off somehow by the owners and are now not tied to the club's name in any way.

Debt has been coming debt regularly since 2009 and interest rates too. Just a couple of years ago we were paying £68.8m a season on interest and now it will be around £35m. It isn't perfect, but we are in a much stronger position than we have ever been under the Glazers. We have spend £130m (net) in the past three seasons and we are still linked to and buying top quality players. So although we could be in a better position debt-wise, we are still in a very strong position and we will only get stronger. No club in the EPL can live with us in a financial sense and Glazers or no Glazers we will continue to dominate this league for the foreseeable future. We have a couple of challenges ahead like the change of manager and more recent the completion of the transition, but if they are dealt with well we have a very bright future ahead. Here's to another 20 years of domination.

Sydney!

Hi Sydney - can you tell me where you bought your rose-tinted glasses?
Was it Glazer & Glazer?

Puzzled

Puzzled, come back when you are able to post a profit and are challenging for a title.

Sydney!

If Kloot doesn't reply to this post I will eat my hat!

I agree with you Syd and like to be positive about the future of the club, none of us like the situation the club is in but none of us can do anything about it especially as we love the club and want to continue supporting. So any good news is always going to be a positive. You will clearly get the doom mongers using what you said and twisting it into a negative but that is just their opinion.

Oh and Puzzled, we aren't even a rival anymore and you aren't even a big club, ask the Swedes.

GDS
GDS

Rose tinted glasses or pure facts, Puzzled? No need to be bitter just because you face another 20 years of playing 2nd fiddle. Although 2nd is a drastic improvement for your bunch.

TK-Red

Well Sydney has a point

Pardoe

GDS, exactly. We are stuck with the Glazers for a long long time so we can either cry and moan about us not being able to spend £100m in one window or having debt, or we can just be thankful that we are still competing and have competed through these hard times. No one wants the Glazers or their debt, but I am also glad we have paid for our players ourselves unlike City, Chelsea & Liverpool.

Sydney!

Sydney!

First off, well said.

Now, clearly I an American (you can tell by my name) and I am from Tampa where the Glazers other franchise is located. I will say this, not to support the way they run the club, because I too do disagree with some portions, but I am not sure that they should be battered around as bad as they are because we still do remain very competitive.

Sure there are debts, but as an American I will tell you that this is a basic business model in my country. Owners take out loans and debts against assets and if money savvy they usually conitnuously run well. I have no reason to believe that SAF would lie and say that he is given all the money he needs in the transfer market and that surely not be the case.

I do support the Tampa team as well and I want to point out an interesting fact for everyone here. Last year the Glazers received loads of "hate mail" from both sides of the pond in the way that moeny was being made available for players. In the NFL offseason the Glazers made a MAJOR effort by signing very very key free agents (which were expensive) just to make the team competitive again and get the fans off of their backs. I will say that I believe between Jan and the Summer transfer windows, we will begin to see this same approach here (I think it has started with signing RVP).

In the end, NOONE can agree with EVERYTHING the Glazers do in the running of the club, however I do believe that the amount of bashing they receive is a little much.

My £.02
ussoldier77

GDS...that may have been the funniest thing I heard all day "ask the Swedes"...GREAT REPLY
ussoldier77

62.6m off the debt this first quarter, down to 359.7m

Pardoe

Sydney! made more points in that post than Liverpool will in the entire season!

REDFAITH

77, it does hurt knowing that £555m has left the club in costs due to the Glazer takeover, £555m that could have been spent elsewhere. Okay if you take away what we would have spent on dividends and what the Glazers have saved on tax and I guess you could add the £62m that they used from the IPO back it leaves around £290m wasted, it's still £290m wasted. Arsenal bought a stadium with that amount of cash. I fully understand why fans are angry with them.

Sydney!

Sydney

A very balanced view and very much what I think. I got crucified a few weeks ago for posting something of a view on the clubs financials and was looking forward as our financial position will continue to improve and we will always be one of the biggest clubs in the world that will compete for top honors.

Maybe the club will surprise us and spend 70 million net this summer and get us all the missing pieces.

Shahram

Shahram, what it tells us is we can spend £50m (net) in the transfer window and still post a sizable profit. With sponsorships increasing, TV money increasing and the new record breaking Nike deal soon to be negotiated it means the club are in a very strong financial position. I think the debt will continue to reduce by £20m-£40m annually until gone. Could go even quicker if the Glazers choose to float more shares and pay down some more debt with some of the proceeds. What's important is the interest, less interest equals more cash flow for team investment.

Sydney!

Hi Syd

Sometimes I agree with your posts and sometimes I don't...I agree 100% with this one. Regardless of our debt or who owns us we are in a strong financial position. It will only naturally get better and better too as revenues grow and debt falls. And 'IF' FFP has any effect at all (I think it will but not to a great extent) we will be in an even better position. People can moan about the way we were took over all those years ago or they can move on and look toward a positive future

Gav

Lovely comment REDFAITH - made me smile - thanks
Mike

Sydney

I was just thinking if they can refinance the majority of the debt at around half the current coupon cost on the bonds.

A friend of mine just refinanced quite a large deal in the states at 3% borrowing cost believe it or not. I know borrowing cost is slightly higher in the Uk so I believe we should have 50 at the lower range and up to 70 million to invest and as as you rightfully guessed 30 to 40 million repayment.

The real positive numbers will start flowing through in 2014/2105 where I believe we will be able to pay down quite large chunks of the debt and do not believe we will need to invest as much in players as there are a number of youth and current first teamers that will form a very solid squad if we buy properly this coming summers.


I am now getting prepared for Kloot to blast me for being positive on the clubs future:)

Shahram

Very true lads, in 2014 we will be receiving £45m a year from GM Motors, £25m more than we are getting now, an extra £34m from TV revenue and we would have negotiated the new Nike deal by then which will be at least £20m more a season than what we are currently getting. That's already £80m more there. This isn't even factoring-in the streaming rights which could be a license to print money. Then you have all the little sponsors and United's mobile and communication deals. By 2015 I imagine revenues will be around £450m. Debt will be in the 200m's and interest at around £15m.

Sydney!

14 Nov 2012 10:13:22
Munkydunk, All i can say is youv'e been spoilt ,that lot you picked were world beaters compared with some of the dross we had to put up with in the seventies and eighties. Here's just a sample:
John Connaughton
Tommy Oneil Ian Ure Arnie Sidebottom Frank Kopel
Tony Young Tom Sloan George Graham Willie Morgan
Alan Foggon Wynn Davies

Can anyone pick a worse team than that lot ?

Raffa

Morgan was pretty good imo

Pardoe

You're still looking at 'recent times Raffa' I
remember the Albert Quixall days

Puzzled

14 Nov 2012 14:28:13
You're still looking at 'recent times Raffa' I
remember the Albert Quixall days

Puzzled

------------------------

In a few years people will be saying:

'Do you remember the Henderson / Shelvey / Downing / Borini / Allen days?'

And then 'Yes the days before we got relegated and went into administration because a Queen used all our funds on amazing players like Charlie Adam and Andy Carroll'

'Ah well at least Stevie Gerrard can still hold his 5 fingers up to us when we are getting beat down at Gillingham'

Sorry, couldn't resist...

GDS

Wots funny GDS is in a few years liverpool fans will prob be saying ''remember when we had great players like henderson, carrol and adam? now we have parkin, reid and zamora''
Chris the REDman

Raffia if that is the case I can't imagine how bad those lot were as I've only seen they guys I posted and god they were bad.


Munkydunc

13 Nov 2012 23:28:49
Right lads I saw earlier the post of best united 11 so the flip side what would be your worst united 11....

Tiabi

Not sure of back 4

Kleberson djemba veron bebe

Tosic

Diouf


Munkydunc

Well some of my picks arent from the fergy era, and since im not old enough to have seen any other manager, my father gave me some names, and after doing my research, these are the worst united 11 :

GK : Paddy roche : Paddy could always be relied upon to drop a howler or 3 every game. He couldnt even catch a cold.

LB : Colin Gibson ( are all gibson players bad for us ? ) : joined us as a european winner from aston villa, reknown for his attacking intent. horrible doesnt sum it up, he makes patrice evra ( on current form ) look like a football god.

Centre Back : william purnier : the new Jaap Stam, recommended by King Cantona. Made 2 starts for us, one of them against tottenham, where the floodgates opened. In a recent poll he was voted 6th worst ever machester united player. The cmparisons with stam end with the shining head.

centre back : Graeme Hogg : I remember him beeing probably the slowest athlete in the history of sports. watching him turn is like watching a tree grow.

Right back : John guidman : first signing made by Ron atkinson, he was moked by the media throughout his career for beeing too slow. I bet he could be beaten for pace by heskey. As one TV pundit said, "Watch his pace, he's slower than he looks."

Left midfield :" the new Georges Best " Ralph Milne.: hes probably the worst crosser ever bar Bebe. He couldnt even cross his arms.

Central midfield : here comes the wonders :

-Kleberson : never have a seen a brasilian that can play this badly, no wonder he was called ' clubfoot" kleberson

-Eric Djemba Djemba : words cant describe how Sh** he was.

-Right midfield : here is the funniest position. When competing with the likes of Gabriel Obertan, David Bellion and Bebe, it takes a special kind of bad to be the worst right midfielder in the club's history. Ashley Grimes takes the mantle. He was skinnier than De Gea, And he never had a good game for the club. Not one.

Striker: Terry Gibson ( another gibson ): 1 goal in 23 appearances, the record spaks for itself. It was more likely that the other team scores an own goal than gibson scoring.

Striker : Peter Davenport. His record isnt too bad, he was just a bad player. You recognise a really bad player when you see one, and he is as bad as they come. He had no ability whatsoever. he made chicharito look like a magician on the bal and had the finishing of welbeck, without ever beeing able to score a spectacular goal.

Subs :Jim Leighton, Bebe, Obertan, Taibi, Diouf, Jordi Cruyff, David May

Special mentions : Darron Gibson and diego Forlan

Mick

Diouf and toisc have been very succesful since they left united!!

Mick good post there all before my time but undoubtably united flops, and no name I know they have been successful after united but it's a united worst 11 not what their like now.


Munkydunc

14 Nov 2012 02:45:06
Come now Diego forlan was mighty unlucky in his time at the club, and while he may not have been the most clinical of finishers we have ever seen his goals to game ratio of one in six games isn't deserving of being in a worst united squad.
United we stand

Any player who scores against the Scousers does not deserve to be in a worst ever XI.

StevieK

Mick - having witnessed all of those players you have mentioned I don't believe that Terry Gibson and Davenport were worse than Birtles and MacDougall. We signed Birtles from Forest and at the time he was recognised as a top striker yet it took him about a year to score for us.Macdougall scored about 50 million goals (well he was prolific) before we signed him and what happened then, well he made Birtles look like RVP.
It is harsh to mention Diego as he is way better than many of the strikers we have had, Gibson, Birtles, MacDougall, Crooks, to name a few. Seeing dear old Paddy Roche mentioned makes me wonder what the reaction would be on here to his performances when you look at some of the comments aimed at De Gea etc.
For those of you that remember, would it be harsh to criticise Alex Stepney as a striker, never got in the box enough lol, after all he was our top scorer at one point.

Keanooh

Keanooh, im still a university student and i hadnt even heard about most of these guys, but i come from a long line of manchester united supporters, and according to what i was told, these are the worst For United. I mean take Forlan and veron, absolutely worldclass, they just looked like bunkers for us. The reviews Fergy had of Forlan ar frightening.

Mick

I'm nt sure Jim Leighton and David May deserve to be on there. Granted they never set the world alight but they did a solid enough job for us when called upon.

TK-Red

Mick

That is great post and you have a great sense of humor. hats off to you.

Shahram