Manchester United Banter Archive August 15 2013

15 Aug 2013 22:03:58
Right well i've had abit of time off which has been good and its allowed me to take a step back and look at things rather than get caught up in all the transfer business.

I think a toxic combination of a lack of activity plus us being linked to unattainable targets has whipped up a frenzy of panic and fear amoungst many of us fans.

So I did what I do best in these situations and look back and reassess what it is we need.

Now this may not come as a suprise to those of you who are familiar with my posts but I am a huge fan of tactical analysis. And I do keep written records of things I notice about our team over the course of the season.

When I look back at the weaknesses we had last season then things become clearer for me to see how we need to move forward.

First off defensively we were poor, so poor infact that Stoke City who finished 13th only conceeded two more goals than us.

We were so poor defensively for several reasons.

First off we were poor defensively because our wingers had a poor season. This sounds silly but because of their lack of form they didn't take on their man or run in behind enough. This had two effects, first of it ment to opposition could press up against us and cut out our threat out wide. And secondly it forced our full backs to venture further forward to create some width, this leaving us over exposed at the back.

Second was are very fragile centre. With Carrick being made to do nearly all of the defensive duties despite being a playmaker this left the midfield over exposed and allowed teams to flood forward onto us. Our full backs being out off position shouldn't be an issue as long as everyone in the centre is marked up. But our lack of a defenisvely minded mifielder ment we had no one to track the runner. We conceded a lot of goals last season to midfielders who ran into our box un marked to score a pull back or cross from a wide man who got in behind our full backs.

Oddly going forward wasn't so much a problem for us, we comfortably out scored all of our opponants. We scored 11 goals more than the second highest scoring team last season(Chelsea). And we managed that with an under performing Wayne Rooney as well as our wingers having the poorest season we ever had from our wingers and Danny Welbeck only scoring a couple of goals for us.

If Kagawa can kick on next season and we can get two or three of our wingers performing then with or without Rooney we should be able to score more goals this season than we scored last.

So going forward we were strong but defensively we were weak. We also failed to control the games as well as we should and we played with a sluggish tempo too often.

My assessment of our team was that we needed to add someone in midfield who would bring energy and a strong defensive work rate. Carrick will be our key midfielder this season, but if we look at what his strengths are then you see that he made more passes than any other player in the league last season and he made more forward passes than any other midfielder last season. But when you look at tackles and interceptions he is half way down the list. Carrick is a creative midfielder who keeps the ball and dictates the tempo of a game, but last season he was hamstrung by poor options to pass to out wide and he was held back by the amount of defensive work he had to do.

In Carrick and Kagawa we have two of the best creative passers in the league who both have great vision and passing. But our midfield lacks any strength or athourity.

Look at all the best teams in the world and they all have someone to do the dirty work in midfield. Barca have Busquets, Bayern havd Martinez, Dortmund have Sven Bender and Real have Khedira. Where as we make our best passing midfielder do a job that limits the effect he can have on the team.

Signing a defensive midfielder would solidify our midfield which would shore up our defense. It would give us a solid base to build on, while also releasing Carrick so as he can focus more on controlling the game with his passing and we can dictate the game more and force our playing style onto our opponants. That higher line would force teams futher back creating more space infront of them to launch attacks and create goal scoring oppotunities. This would mean we can bring our wide men into the game more and hopefully bring the best out of them.

People keep saying we need a creative midfielder yet we have several creative players yet we don't have enough players doing the hard running that would enable us to dictate games.

Having looked through all my scouting notes I have narrowed down all the potential midfield targets down to who I feel would be the best three options.

Luiz Gustavo would probably be top of my list, this guy has limitless energy and covers every blade of grass, yet he is also a fantastic passer of the ball. He tackles hard but maybe isn't the best reader of the game and doesn't make as many interceptions as you'd want from a defensive midfielder but his amazing pass completion rate and his sheer energy means he still comes out top.

Morgan Schneiderlin maybe isn't the most popular choice amoung fans but true football aficionados will recognise his ability. He made more tackles and interceptions per game last season than any other midfielder in the prem. He is a very good passer who doesn't panic under pressure. He also has boundless energy. He isn't as good a passer as Gustavo but he is better defensively, has more of physical presence and is prem proven. But a lack of european football does count against him.

My final pick is Romulo Borges Monteiro, he has the best reading of the game out of these three. Making interceptions rather than crunching tackles is certainly a benefit when playing in europe as we are less likely to give fouls away. He also has the ability to drive forward with the ball which isn't something the other two do much at all. This ability to play a quick one two with someone then drive forward with the ball 20-30 yards automatically puts the opposition and the back foot and can be excellent for creating chances against a team that is tough to break down. So he offers a unique attacking threat that the others don't. But his passing is the most limited out of the three with his prefering to make short passes rather than 25 yard plus passes.

Of course there is another similar player who we have been heavily linked to. Marouane Fellaini, Imo he would certainly do a great job and help us implement all we need too. My only problem with Fellaini is his touch and mobility. I don't think a midfield of him and Carrick would be mobile enough to deal with the best midfields in europe.

Like I said we have enough options up front and in the creative thrid of the pitch especially with Zaha joining and Januzaj showing that he could step up. Long term we will need a replacement for Carrick, but that could wait a year then next summer we could look at someone like Gundogan, Koke or Verratti.

The only other signing we could do with is at Left back, imo unless we get Baines then Evra needs to stay to keep some stability in the dressing room. If Baines is not available then we should look for a young talented LB to be Evra's understudy but who has the ability to push him for his place this season. Obviously you have young Luke Shaw or Ben Davies within the Premier league. But two players I like the look of are Alberto Moreno and Ricardo Rodriguez. Any of those four would be an improvement with the potential to be world class.

IMO someone like Ronaldo or Fabregas would be a bonus signing that would make us serious contenders for europe. But first and foremost we need to bring in the the players who will allow us to control games and impose ourselves on our opponants.

Hope you've enjoyed the read, and it's good to be back. lol.

Welcome back shappy, good post. enjoyed reading it :) zee

Good post Shappy. I think we all recognise the areas where the weaknesses are but it's great to be able to think about it in more detail. Do you think Moyes will stick with 4-4-2 though? I think he might play with two much more narrow players in an advanced position rather than traditional wingers in a 4-3-3/4-3-2-1. That would go a long way towards explaining the apparent transfer targets.

Me likes you

So

1) we need a defensive midfielder
2) possibly a left back
3) would be good to sign Ronaldo or Fabregas
4) you keep scouting notes

Amazing post Shappy, lol. Enjoyed it.

DL10

Nice one shappy, always a pleasure.

one would hope Moyes has made similar observations which begs the question why he seems to be letting Gustavo go for a song to either arsenal or Wolfsburg?

surely he's got somebody else lined up who can perform the role to an equally high standard? to let the transfer window close without bringing in this sort of player would border on criminal negligence.

he may yet be charged with the offence of 'misuse of a public office' ;)

Brilliant analysis shappy, much like your old stuff that I loved to read.

What a cracking post. :)

Welcome back. Classic shappy post, a very good post and agree with most of it.

Hb

Best post in along while Shappy. Pretty much the same thoughts I had regarding the players we need but I still think a good winger should be on that list too. I'm not 100% convinced Tony V can replicate his form from 2011/2012 and Nani has a lot to prove consistency wise next season. I don't think we should put too much pressure on either Zaha or Januzaj to step up too quickly. Perhaps keep Nani and Zaha for the right wing position and use Tony to cover injuries unless he rediscovers some of the form he was missing last year.
That still leaves the left pretty barren. I don't think Kagawa should be used on the left, and I don't think Welbeck is the answer either. This is one position that needs filling in my opinion

Great post!

My biggest concern is to do late business. Adaptation. It worked with RVP but it doesn't mean that will happen with everyone.

We do need a DM.

Great post shapps.

Singh

Shappy, welcome back. Missed reading your riddiculously long posts. Anyhow, beeing an overly obcessive fan myself, I will reply with a rather long comment on my own.

I watch a lot of football matches myself and tend to keep an eye on players who impress me and tend to keep an eye on them.

Starting with the defense, we have a fair bit of quality at the back. Rafael is a beast and so is Jones. Evans is gradually becoming one of the best central defenders in the league and has improved massively in the last couple of seasons and imo should be in the strongest XI. Smalling is a solid cover with lots of talents and so is Ferdinand. Vidic is our captain and should be an undisputed starter. Evra on the other hand is a defensive liability, an accident waiting to happen and doesn't seem to understand the concept of marking a player. Buttner is fantastic going forward but unreliable at the back, much like Evra, which is why I don't understand why he hasn't played more last season since he offers a higher workrate than our lovely frenchman. Fabio is very talented, can cover both flanks and an injury free season would do him a world of good.

So it looks like the quality is there but somehow we seemed to concede goals by the douzains.

You are right about one of the reasons. We use attacking fullnacks who had to push forward even more so than usual since our wingers have been a bit worse than rubbish, which is why they left gaps at the back that the opposing wide playerrs made the most of. Add to that the absence of a defensive midfielder who would cover the fullback's positions when they push forward certainly didn't help the matter. carrick was given the job but he's not the fastest of midfielders and even if he was he couldn't cover both flanks, which is one of the reasons we need a defensive midfielder next to him.

The second reason, and imo bigger reason is that the tactics didn't use the centre backs.

There are 2 types of defenders: the all action battler ( Vidic, Terry, Cahill, Pepe. ) and the ball player, whp pushes forward lunching attacks and relies on positioning ( Silva, Ferdinand. ) . A partnership between 2 players of different types is imo the most solid because they would complement each other nicely.

Last season we played with Evans and Ferdinand, who have extremely similar styles and don't complement each other. When you have 2 defenders of that type, you have to play a higher line but Ferdinand is too slow to for it to work. The fact that we played a deeper defensive line didn't suit either of them since Ferdinand is too slow to be making last ditch tackles and jumping everywhere in the box and his reflexes are deteriorating. So imo he should only be used as cover. And in that respect, a deeper line with attacking fullbacks doesn't work since they have to cover a lot of ground before guetting to the defensive line.

A partnership of Evans and Vidic would be more solid, albeit a bit deep since Vidic is no Usain Bolt but would be solid. If jones or Smalling are playing instead of the veterans than we would be able to play in much higher up the pitch.


Moving onto midfield. Carrick is a top class player, "there's no doubt about that". He has the ability to control the tempo of a game with his passing range given the right circumtances ( a decent partner would be one of those ). He can either be partnered with a creative midfielder in an attacking formation where we are likely to concede goals but score a lot ( Modric, Fabregas?, Cabaye ) or a hard working ball winner ( Vidal, Gustavo, Fellaini . )

And for the attack, an attacking midfielder who can cover the wings would be great but a bit of a luxury if Rooney doesn't leave.

Moving onto possible targets. In defese we should be trying to get a left back but we're kind of well stocked even though we lack a bit in quality.

Baines' case is well documented.

Our first option would be Alex Sandro. Fantastic little player, very talented and kind of a left footed Rafael, although I don't think prizing him away from Porto would be easy.

The second option, who would be my first choice, is Coentrao. It looks like he wants out of Madrid and they are willing to sell. He is solid defensively and a skillful dribbler, much like a younger Evra.

Moving onto midfield. Cleverley is not good enough to be first choice, Anderson is not consistent enough. Some realistic targets:

Fellaini who everybody knows his ups and downs.

Luis Gustavo would be a very solid and cheapish option ( considering his ability ). He covers a lot of ground and is a very capable ball winner and has a rather impressive passing range and would not be easiely bullied off the ball. He could also cover Carrick in the DLP position should he need some rest. Gustavo would bring out the best in Carrick.

Talking of someone who wouldn't be easiely bullied off the ball, how about Nemanja Matic? Strong as an Ox, faster than Fellaini and just as capable defensivly, also he is a better player. But he is not proven in the premier league and wouldcost a fair bit of money.

As for Romulo Borges, I've watched him a douzain of times or so. He is very capable defensively and could launch attacks at will. he is a bit like a more defensive version of Gundogan ( not as good though) and would make a perfect long term Carrick replacement.

Although Romulo is not the only Rusian premier league based midfielder I'd be willing to buy. Imo we should go all in for Axel Witsel. He would be the best box to box player we'd be able to get. Fantastic going forward, intelligent passer, bone crushing tackler ( litteraly ). Very skillful despite his size.

As for the Schneiderlin part. Imo he was the second best midfielder in the league last season and his stats are impressive. But there is a better option who wouldn't cost more in the bundesliga: Milan badelj. I've written plenty of times about him in the past, he averages around 4 tackles and 4 interceptions a game and yet he is not a defensive midfielder, more of a deep lying playmaker and would be good in a double pivot system next to Carrick.

Cabaye and Modric have been discussed numerous times on this page so I am not going to bother.

As for the attacking player. If Rooney doesn't leave we wouldn't Need one per say but a creative winger wouldn't weaken us especially if we manage to sell one of our wingers. Lamela would be my first choice. He is extremly creative and has this ability that none of our current wingers seem capable of atm (not counting zaha ), which is a very rare skill called dribbling. He would be great on the right of an interchangeable front 3 ( 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 ) and would push us one step closer to play with inverted wingers in a more modern formation ( like Real and Bayern ) .

And if we do lose Rooney, i'd want us to go for Eriksen who would make a good addition, as would Willian . They can both play through the middle or on the left to accomodate Kagawa.

Respect is due. Great post great points.

Someone buy that man a pint!

16 Aug 2013 11:07:24
WB Shappy and your broadsheets good well thought out post but you missed out VIDAL? I've kinda given up hope of us going for him as well. Gustavo is my second choice too, now don't all laugh but I think Cabaye would do a very good job for us.

15 Aug 2013 21:33:42
Heard that cr7 house near Alderley has been rented for some time but last couple of weeks they have moved out and is empty I'm not saying he's going to move back in within a couple of weeks but it could be a piece in the jigsaw who knows just hope all this quite transfer window a big storm is coming.

No there's not.

Didn't he sell it?

hence why its currently empty?

the guys who have bought it just haven't moved in yet.

The Moon.

First house sold to Tevez. 2nd house alderley edge kept all these years and put up for sale 4 wks ago. On the net for 3.75 or 3.85mil. V nice but nearly cried when I saw it was for sale.

Wouldn't sell if he was coming back would he!

BooooHooooo

15 Aug 2013 21:41:47
Read a post from REDMIST about Fabregas
being presented at the Chelsea game.Does
anybody believe that Jose would have bid
for Rooney if SAF was still in power - the
answer if NO therefore its Jose trying to mess
up our great club and you could not make
a bigger reverse statement to him and his sugar
daddy by presenting one of the worlds best
midfielders on the day we play the muppets
so REDMIST I hope you have some info you
can share with us .

MAKE IT HAPPEN ANYWAY MUFC

15 Aug 2013 18:31:58
On a different note, I've just been checking out our injuries on physioroom.com and have a few questions:

1) Any news on whether Carrick will be ready for Sat considering his eye infection? I bleedin' hope so!

2) Hernandez noted as having a hamstring injury with no return date given. Any info on this? I didn't know he was injured TBH.

3) Nani's injury, is he expected back any time soon? I thought he was taken off as a precaution in Stockholm.

4) Powell leg injury with no return date. Any info on his injuries including those from last season? Is there a fear his injuries will hamper his development or has he just been unlucky?

Sorry for so many questions, if any one knows any answers (including Ed's) it would be appreciated. Or if there is a good source for such info?

Thanks,

And Raphael too
Nomidfield

Regarding Nani, DM said he hasn't got any worries about his injury.

so I would expect him to probably be on the bench for the Swansea game.

I would also expect a very similar line up to the CM with Rooney included.

The Moon.

Rafael is suspended anyway.

Nick Powell is still recovering from groin surgery I think ( not 100%) but he should be back in the few weeks.

15 Aug 2013 18:30:38
BUY LARS BENDER PLEASE MR. MOYES!

Scott.

Ok.
David Moyes,
Manchester United,
Old Trafford,
Manchester.

Chuckle chuckle chuckle. nice response.

Good ness only knows we need a laugh!

15 Aug 2013 17:07:55
Eds (or anyone else who could shine some light on the matter):

If the premier league fixtures really are random (and I'm not implying that they're not), is there any reason why they insist on producing the fixture lists behind closed doors? Would it not be feasible to do it on a live TV broadcast, as they do with cup drawers etc.

It's something I have wandered about for a few years now.

Thanks {Ed007's Note - I suspect it is done like that because it is a long and very boring process. It's not just drawing out fixtures and that's it, there are other factors that need to be taken into account i.e. travelling rival fans clashing (2 London teams playing the 2 Manchester teams in Manchester at the same time). Anyone else know more about it than me?}

I saw an article about it somewhere. They also have to take into account the football league as the police insist on certain groups of clubs not playing at home on the same day regardless of their division. I'm pretty sure it is all produced by one bloke on a spreadsheet!

Ben

+ if the PL want to fix anything then the obvious one for me is to avoid big games before and after the European weeks, and preferably have the sides in Europe playing at home either side of Europe.

Ben

I didn't think it was completely random? - don't they put together big weekends themselves? - hence why every year the big 4 play each other on the same day.

Everything you need to know.

premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2013-14/jun/how-the-fixture-list-is-compiled.html

The Moon. {Ed007's Note - Cheers Moon.}

I remember reading about it in 442 magazine a while back. There is 1 guy that does it. Ed is right that there are lots of factors to consider

MJS

Read an article about it a few years bag. Many factors are taken into account. European matches, domestic cup draws, 2 big clubs in close proximity not playing home same time due to policing etc, distance teams and fans have to travel to matches such as not going to send spurs to Newcastle one week and then Sunderland the next. All these factors and more are loaded and one bloke runs an algorithm to determine the fixture list. So the draw as such is only random to a small degree. Obviously the draw will be different each year due to relegation/promotion and cup qualification

Ed007 - a while ago I saw an interview with a Football League rep who basically said they have an initial random-generation type process and then run a manual process swapping fixtures to avoid the sort of clashes you're talking about. The Premier League are always disconcertingly vague when they talk about the fixture setting process, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's similar. There's so many complexities they have to consider (e.g. trying to avoid Liverpool or Everton playing at home on Grand National day) that it's hard to imagine an organisation like the Premier League would have managed to fully automate it.

It is a process that needs more transparency.

It would be great if we could have a DERBY DAY where teams play their local rivals ( if in the same division ) on the same day.

A computer program, does the lot, prem, fl the lot, takes the computer 4 hours to do it

I think - unless it's changed it's the other way round there are a set of initial constraints around teams like Everton & Liverpool & City and United not playing at home on the same weekend/day, and then there are calendar conditions, games on boxing day/new years day tend to be weighted so that fixtures are within a certain prolixity. Who knows what else they weight, then they hit the button, look for anomalies and manually fix anything which was unresolvable. It's definitely not random and how they weight and nudge certain fixtures is a pretty close guarded secret. There's definitely an argument to say the weighting encourage certain outcomes. Remember then the TV companies then get their say and can ask for fixture adjustments, moving games from saturday to Sunday to create the Super sunday scenarios etc.

15 Aug 2013 17:50:30
Personally I think the whole appointment of Moyes stinks. I'm not saying it was a bad decision but could you imagine Woodward being allowed to choose his successor? No interview, no other candidates and a candidate who has no European experience and who has never achieved anything other than keeping his job. We now have a first team coach who's previous role was as reserve team manager for Leeds Utd.
He wasn't called dithering Dave for nothing.
My opinion is that Fergie wanted him because any other potential might have had more Euro glory in a far shorter timespan and put his achievements into the shade.Im predicting we finish outside the top four

You're a real barrel of laughs, if fergie thinks he's the right man for the job that's good enough for me.

What a load of rubbish, firstly do you think fergusons legacy of Manchester United would be jeapordised by the same man who created it? I'm sure fergie would be delighted if utd could win everything they could in such a short space of time, it would just prove what a successful squad he had created before he retired. And do you think he would want people to remember him as these who had appointed moyes- the man who drove Manchester United into the ground? Of course not, he wants Man U to continue to be successful well into the future or all his hard work would be undone! Just support the team and stop worrying about absolutely trivial rubbish! Jase.

Fergie wanted Moyes because he thought he wouldn't do well?
Christ mate what an utter load of tripe - the thing that SAF needs to put the seal in his legacy is for the club to continue to succeed in the long term, then he will be seen as the most successful and complete manager ever. Something Jose for example will never be as he is only a short term fixer

The biggest load of tat I've read on here for a while, Sir Alex wants nothing more than to see United go from strength to strength and dominate for years to come. If Moyes fails it will look bad on Fergie also, he chose him after all.
Flyhalfmitch.

WOW!

You sir are a disgrace to your name. That is all.

Manutd20

It's far from unusual for senior positions to be filled on recommendation - particularly of the person leaving them - in all walks of life.

In my (not so senior!) jobs I've twice been asked to identify a successor and train them up to replace me, then mentor them when they're in place.

It's done to provide continuity and because the person incumbent in a role is most likely to be able to identify someone with the right skills to continue any good work they've done.

Well said manutd20 I think you have made a good point

It's like saying Fergie isn't a United fan! :/

Personally. I think Fergie got it bang on in choosing Moyes. The more I've read about his style, work ethic, integrity and cunning. I like him more and more. On a shoestring budget he's managed to keep his last team in the top 7 for around the last ten years. If he can replicate that type of success with a team that's used to being Champions ( and I'm sure he will, given a bit of time to adjust) all these doom and gloom merchants that post here, will choke on their frightened little words. David Moyes has been working and preparing for this level of responsibility for years and I have no doubt, there's a new and just as glorious era ahead for United fans. It would make more sense for you doom sayers to put your energy into supporting United rather than trying to bring a team of Champions down to your fear-mongering level. I'm thoroughly looking forward to the Moyes era. He's got my support.
Jomo

Boarshaw thinks you made a good point, so you can go away and be happy now.

Boarshawred

Are you for real or just posting dribble to get a reaction out of people.

15 Aug 2013 15:08:16
Fantasy Premier League any leagues I can enter this year?

RTFPFFS! #searchfunction

15 Aug 2013 16:11:46
So Phil Neville and Steve Round were there to watch the Portugal Holland game. Interesting.

Who could they have been watching? Coentrao, Di Maria?

Ronaldo? Or that Sjnider?

Di maria wouldn't of been featuring in that game I assure you.

Di Maria is from Argentina

SJT

Strootman. they still think he is for sale.

Hopefully they were casting an eye over Moutinho or Clasie.

thats if they were there?

The Moon.

Do u mean sgnigdgeger??

rodio17

Im not sure they need to watch Ronaldo live

Well that explains how much interest I have in international football I guess.

A journalist thinks we will or have bid for Coentrao

Lol I second the live ronaldo scouting mission. Unilike with BEBE;) I think a quick 'ronaldo youtube' typed into any reliable search engine should do lol

Moon

Moutinho has signed for Monaco

Hughesy

15 Aug 2013 13:23:10
Eds, are we moving to having to have names in order to post? Seems like a good idea.

And Gav, are you also Hb or is this someone entirely different to you? {Ed007's Note - Yes AJH, we are cutting down on anonymous posts and eventually scrapping them altogether. If people want to see their posts posted they are advised to register for the sites. It takes two mins to register and there is no ulterior motive by us other than to improve the sites.}

AJH, yes it is, it tends to be me posting on a computer I shouldn't really be posting from!

Good move Ed's that will definitely improve the site IMO, although I will have to wait til I'm home from work now so I can login, lol. {Ed007's Note - As long as your posts are tagged with your name it will be fine.}

Excellent! :D

Nice1 Ed007 that's good to know.

14 Aug 2013 15:45:10
Well Mr Bond

Seems as though Hayley has taken a trip to the gym over this summer and lost a bit of poundage!

I must say you have a bit of competition for her affections in me now aswell ;) {Ed007's Note - You have NO chance Jono! Once the court injunction lapses I will be back on the case to woo her.}

15 Aug 2013 16:18:11
Now Jacksons off to America there could be a battle for the crown. MrE

Bond

I heard shes taking a job on the disney channel shortly ;-)

Rk16

15 Aug 2013 15:24:00
Apparently steve round and phil neville were at portugals friendly in the algarve. this will stir up the rumours.

danny boy

What to see if the boy Ronaldo could cut it in England.
Dylan

15 Aug 2013 14:55:21
Fellaini release claused expired at the end of july. Strange that it's only circulating now

It was August 14th

Martinez, on a website, said that it expired at the end of July.

15 Aug 2013 14:28:55
Moyes said: "I find it hard to believe that's the way the balls came out of the bag, that's for sure."

The Premier League responded by saying: "We have absolutely assured him the process is random and above board. He has accepted those assurances."

A league spokesman also confirmed that Moyes had put his concerns to them directly.

However earlier on Thursday the Scotsman said: "I think it's the hardest start for 20 years that Manchester United have had.

"I hope it's not because Manchester United won the league quite comfortably last year [that] the fixtures have been made much more difficult."

Can anyone tell me what Moyes is talking about? We all know we have a hard fixture, but do we have to tell our rivals that we are moaning about these fixtures and give them hope they might beat us? Fergusson would have mentioned the fact we are playing all our rivals early and that we are fully prepared. While Moyes is going on about how hard the list is. This is instilling no confidence in our team and the ability of the players.
If it was to motivate the players, then I don't think it is the right move. We have a chance to beat City. Liverpool and Chelsea early on, if we do, then that will give us a great start. So let's go out and beat these teams, instead of harping on the fixture list Mr. Moyes.
Nomidfield

I agree with Moyes it seems more than a coincidence.

But I agree with you too - I don't like the thought of United making excuses so would rather he showed no weakness and said we are prepared.

It's not a huge deal though so let's not make it one!

What we do on the pitch is more important than what Moyes says.

HB

Didn't SAF moan like a little girl when we had 2 away fixtures after the UCL?

any opportunity to put down our new manager ay NoMidfield.

I get the impression you would rather see us get relegated just to say "I told you he was a bad choice".

The Moon.

You are so right what kind of a manager would create a them against us attitude at the club. Well apart from Sir Alex or Jose.

Sir Alex would be doing just the same thing Nomidfield. He always loved a "Its Manchester United against the world" siege mentality.

In fact, he would have gone pretty public with it I think.

Nomidfield.
He has all reasons to panic. he knows squad is not sorted. specially midfielders. so your still having a name "no midfield". lolssss.

I m going to copy u in different way. whenever vidic will not play I will post under the name ofNO DEFENCE. because without him we concede horrible amount of goals.

Rodio17

Have I got this wrong does the fixture list that he is moaning about mean we will not play all the teams home and away.If this is the case then that's diabolical.So how come this has happened this year and never before.Its definitely because of Fergie leaving don't you think.He would never have stood for it when he was manager I am writing to my MP straight away
I washed David Peggs car

Thanks for the replies guys. Agreed with most. Only thing is Fergie used to moan but used to then wind our team up. Moyes just seem to have had a moan!
Radio, I'm hoping the "NoMidfield" will be gone by the 2nd of September. I agree though, that without Vidic and Rio, the centre of our defence looks a bit disorganized. This is why I think we will buy a central defender before the window closes.
PS. Was at the PortugalvHolland match, good game of football, very technical, very modern in the way teams chased the ball when not in possession. And CR7 scored. So all was well. Strootman had a very good game.
Nomidfield

15 Aug 2013 18:26:00
@Nomidfield

How do you know Moyes hasn't been winding the team up about it? He won't do that in public obviously, such things will be said in the dressing room.

Strootman is a good player. I watched a couple of Roma friendlies and he looked good. I still don't understand why didn't get him signed up.

REDFAITH

Lack of pace would be my guess and that would not fit in with how Moyes wants to play. I don't think prospective players have to be rapid but Strootman was very slow indeed and whilst I only saw 45 mins he didn't impress me and obviously not Moyes

15 Aug 2013 13:38:26
hi guy's, I was reading about woodward that he went for baines but he is trying to get the players on the cheap. he did not meet the asking price (woodward) is doing like wenger does, if the clubs want 20million 4 they'r player's then let's pay them 17million 4 the player. just pay what the club's want and get the player. what is woodward doing at united when he should have been at a team's like blackpool or sunderland, now I know why we are struggleing to get the players we want. mr woodward go and join wenger at arsenal he will love to have u by his side at arsenal and u 2 can buy players on the cheap, I hope he proves me wrong though:) zee

I hope your wrong but I have a sneaky feeling your not. Casing point why offer £30 million for fabregas when we were clearly never going to get him at that price. Like I said I hope your wrong, but I think Woodward is your typical glazer man! When we paid £30 million for berba what makes him think barca would sell one of their best players for the same price, to a rival champions league team, it would have to be a rediculous offer for

Zee, You were the last of us--a beaming light of hope. You stood unflinching in the shroud of doubt whilst searing through shadows of doom. And now you have succumbed. Goodbye my friend. Welcome to the rest of us.

I hope i'm wrong mate, it got me worried, but let's see what happens. zee:)

Oops accidentally pressed post, meant to say that it would have to be a rediculous offer for them to even consider, when moyes said at the start of the window we were in for the BEST players, what makes Woodward think we can gwt the best players on the cheap. The glazers must be loving the window so far.

Lol, I still have hope mate;) I know we will be ok without new players but we never really replaced captian keane and we need to replace scholes to. fletcher(speeling) will not be back either, so that's atleast 2 players we have 2 find replacement for so we have assurance that we are safe and strong in the mid area :) and I sometimes get affected by negative post's, then I post negative post but let's try to get behind the team my fellow red army brother's and sister's the season is just 49 hour's away and we play swansea. good luck guy's. united four life zee:

15 Aug 2013 12:28:54
If erik lamela is available and if we, re after a winger then he'd be my first choice along with reus, he will cost 30 million as it says in papers and if Tottenham buy him and we dontbuy any good wingers this year . Ill be disappointed bbecause I reckon lamela will go on to be a big hit for spurs. Ideal replacement for bale.

Singh

Can't see another winger coming in unless one leaves.

Moyes' will give everyone a crack this year. Nani, young, Valencia and Zaha, will be given opportunities to shine. I mean, in the case of Valencia, the guy was arguably one of the best wingers in world football, just over a year ago. He was an absolute beast. If he can find that form again, we have one hell of a player. The same goes for Nani: on his day, he is up there with the best of them.

I'm not sure we can ever call Young a winger, he's pathetic.
As for Valencia, he will disappoint again. One trick pony and he has been found out.
Nani and Zaha, could do a job, but we need a fully established winger, CR7, Bale or Robben to improve our attack options.

I wouldn't go as far as calling Young Pathetic. He definitely hasn't done a great deal to impress - granted; but to call him pathetic, is a bit over the top. He has ability, but he needs to show it consistently.

Noname,

Well for a start, a "winger" is precisely what Ashley Young is last time I checked?

"Valencia WILL disappoint again"! Can you tell me this week's lotto numbers please? Perhaps we should terminate his contract now and throw him on the rubbish tip.

Can't take the rest of your post seriously after those 2 gems.

HB

15 Aug 2013 11:58:05
Moyes says where in talks with several players.
Martinez says there's no bids or talks with baines or side show Fellani. So I wonder who we can expect to come in, I hear where bidding again for fabregas. This sounds like a waste of time unless there's some encouragement from barca? The eds say united are working hard. But to bring in who??

Marm

There trying give them a break

15 Aug 2013 11:08:54
For god's sake let's puts things into perspective. England were playing Scotland last night yes that's right Scotland not Spain or Brazil and we struggled against them. So the Brand made one forward pass should we all now change our minds. What about his scuff in the area or the 70 odd sideways or backwards passes. Rooney was invisible and Welbeck got his usual England goal but as always would now rather lay the ball off than shoot.

Seen nothing to change my opinion. The Brand not good enough Wellbeck never a centre forward and Rooney needs to go and then realise who he was lucky enough to play for. Anderson a fat overweight clown who shows 20 minute flashes of skill.

Yes support the shirts at everygame but also demand from the owners that we bring in quality.

Give the Brand a good reception when Hull play us and he comes back to OT

15 Aug 2013 11:41:57
Agree on The Brand and Welbeck. If Rooney goes, not to the chavs.

Ha ha ha. love it Kloot and I agree with everything you say apart from Rooney.
I especially agree with you about Tom Cleverley, the amount of clowns on here that come on posting last night about how great he is just because he played a decent ball into the path of Walcott. It beggers belief!

Simmo

Is that 1 or 2 grenades :)
johndenton

15 Aug 2013 12:42:12
I didn't realise Anderson played for England. Welbeck can't win, instead of wasting possession on pot shots he intelligently keeps the ball moving. He works hard, has pace, can pass and is good in the air. Play him in a position regular and he will score. Cleverley has a mandate to keep the ball, that means sometimes going to the side. It never hurt ray Wilkins. Far more worrying is lampard still getting in the team. MrE

Welbeck and Cleverley shown exactly how important squad players are at MU. What do you think we would have won without the likes of Phil Neville, Butt, Brown, Fletcher, Evans, JOS, etc etc over the years? You need good squad players and at this moment in time that is exactly what they are. Time will tell if they ever become more than that. Welbeck didn't play as a centre forward and didn't most of last season too. When he plays as a centre forward he will score goals.

Kloot you are a very odd MU fan. If decisions were left up to you we would have been ruined years ago.

Sydney!

Didn't England draw in Brazil and beat Spain recently?

I personally hope Cleverley and Anderson both start against Swansea. Both have had full pre-seasons, and both look sharp.

Unlike some United fans, I happen to believe that Anderson can have a big future at United. It is clear that SAF had lost faith in him; and in turn, the player probably lost faith with the club. Now, Moyes' has seen that he is a very talented individual, that needs his confidence built up again. I mean, don't anyone remember when Anderson outshone Fabregas and Gerrard in his first full season at United?
As for Cleverley, the guy is a very good player IMO. He wouldn't be in the England set up or playing for United if he wasn't. He is another player whose confidence was knocked last season. As a result, his performances suffered. But the fact remains that the guy can play. He is a modern day CM/AM, who fits in well with the style Moyes' is looking to adopt, which is a high tempo style of football.

I think those players' will shut a lot of the doubters up. I hope they do anyway.

I agree apart from Rooney

Ross

I have to say I do rate cleverly, and I rated Carrick very highly over two years ago, especially when a lot of my united friends were slating him! I think cleverlys reading of the game is very good, he may not make the killer pass every time, but he's always in the right place at the right time, whether it be in defence or attack, he's great in te tackle and works so hard whether he's playing for united or England. He may not be the most technically gifted of players but that may come with experience and game time, and hard work. he was extremely effective at the start of last season before he got injured, and I feel he's been unfortunate. The only thing I don't think he's particularly good at is his shooting, and composure in front of goal, but that "scuffed shot" your talking about kloot, came at him at high speed after a dummy from welbeck, I doubt many players in the team apart from perhaps Gerrard or lampard would have scored that one. Give the lad a chance he's united through and through, and I'd rather him playing for us than any of these mercenaries who would only join for the money.
Jase

Hey Klot,

Cleverly played more than '1 forward pass', I can remember at least 4. You tell other's to put things in perspective then make up something to try and prove your point in the opposite direction? How convenient :) 'Scuffed shot' is a bit harsh too IMO he did well in the build up of that move but probably should have done better with his shot.

He wasn't great, he wasn't poor, he did OK and was largely competent throughout.

Poster's who say he had a 'worldie' are wrong but so are poster's like you, who will put him down at every opportunity (even though he did OK).

But then they do say a leopard never changes it's spots! (I know you like your sayings :)

HB

Typical, you've never played the game at any decent level(not that it matters)however the reason we've had so much success over the years is been down to SAF giving young homegrown lads a chance and what you get in return is a group of players who give that little bit more for each other because they know what it means to ensure the kids are a success, the likes of RVP thrives on bringing them on.
That's why we stand alone, let the others blow millions on marque ego maniacs in an attempt to please the likes of you the typical football fan.
Dylan

With Clevs, I think he can be a decent squad player for us. The problem is, there are some on here who have bigged him up to an extent that even decent performances from him will be slaughtered. I like a few aspects of his game. I don't think he will ever be world class. Would not think of selling him though. This season is Tom's big season. let's hope he makes it.

With Welbeck, local lad and all, but he is not United quality. His decision making is appalling. His touch is not good enough and shooting is well, let's say clumsy to say the least. I won't mince words, he is poor. If he was ever on the shop window, you will see the kind of takers that come in. He will be the first United player I will get rid off. Shockingly poor!

Deeps.

Dylan do you mean blow millions on players like RVP. yeah you are right he didn't make a difference did he?. Good to see Sydney still defending his son

Kloot aren't you the same person who said if your not from Manchester your not a real fan. Hmmm. Double standards me thinks! :)

Kloot, I am merely defending a Manchester United youth product who is still developing from a handful of Manchester United fans sadly.

I am 29, Cleverley is 24. I lost my virginity very early, but not at four years old ;)

Sydney! {Ed007's Note - Syd when do you see this development actually coming to fruition? Surely at 24 he should be there or there abouts as a player, he is hardly a youngster the way the modern game is. He wouldn't get near any other top 6 first-team and if Utd had signed CMs over the last few years he wouldn't be anywhere near Utd's, he would be warming the bench at a WBA or Sunderland.}

Good post Dylan. For someone who forever preaches his love for the spirit of our club, he has a funny habit of slagging off our local lads.

StevieK

007, nonsense. Cleverley has missed almost three full season's through injury since he was 19. To answer your question Ed it is coming to fruition now. That's why he is playing for Manchester United and England. Why can't he just develop in his own time, why do people need to consistently bad mouth him just because SAF neglected the midfield for years? He is a scapegoat, nothing more, nothing less. {Ed007's Note - So he is injury prone and not up to much, yeah he's exactly what Utd need. And why would AF neglect the MF when he had Cleverley limping through the ranks? At least you are admitting that he is only in the team because AF neglected the MF, it's a start. What age is Wilshere and how long did he miss with injury btw? Being in the England squad means nothing, because of the amount of foreigners in the EPL if you are English and can kick a ball in a straight line there is a chance you will get a game. Would Cleverley got in the England team that had Lampard, Scholes, Beckham etc? It is England's standards that have went backwards, not Cleverley going forward. Rickie Lambert is 31 and just got his first cap, so being in that team doesn't exactly project high standards. You only back him up because he came through the youth system yet look at some of your statements about Rooney that has gave the club 10 years. Take off the blinkers Syd, as I have said to you before if Cleverley was at Wigan would you be on here saying Ut should spend £15-20m on him as he is the future of England's midfield?}

What more does he have to do, he's in Uniteds squad a full international we all know he was a late developer and was almost released as a kid for this reason.
Things will never change, we are the most succesful club in England but the (I know more than SAF) brigade are all around OT.I know I've had the pleasure of listening to loads over the years.
O, Shea
Fletcher
Gibson
P.Neville to name some who all where given stick by the impatient let's by Diego Klaus Yan Marcello johnny foriegner boys&girls club.So City Chealsea is the way forward?
Dylan

Kloot
Invest in the squad definetly with top quality but balancing that with homegrown talent it's the only way you have mid to long term success.
What guarantees are there in spending £60M on two midfielders of continued success? I will tell you None.
RVP played a massive part last season but players who you have no time for also contributed players that if RVP was asked to give his opinion on would be slightly more positive than you.
Dylan

I don't care if we buy anyone or not I will still be at the games, but and its just my opinion if we don't invest in some quality addittions we will struggle in the league and europe.im all for giving youth a chance when the time is right or the oportunity arises and I make sure I watch and attend youth and u21 games every season to see whos up and coming, but if there not good enough wether there from our acedemy or bought then there not good enough.and tom isn't local or fully home grown he's from down south and we nicked him of bradford city when he was 12 :)

15 Aug 2013 19:00:00
@Ed007

He will be a squad player mate, and I don't think anybody should have a problem with that. You need your Osheas and Browns.

Its only the lack of midfield signings by Sir Alex that has kept him as first choice. Obviously Moyes has recognized the need for a midfield addition and if we can get the deals done, will address the issue.

15 Aug 2013 19:52:31
@ ed. 007
Aaaahhhh it's not just me
Jred

15 Aug 2013 19:54:11
Good points Syd and Dylan,

If Kloot were in charge he'd get rid of Welbeck, Cleverly, probably have gotten rid of Wes Brown, Fletcher (before he became fashionable again), O Shea etc. as well as many other's.

Our squad would have a higher proportion of 'mercenaries' and less homegrown talent who give that extra 10% and are happy to sit on the bench.

We would have a far less successful squad if our manager thought along the same lines as Kloot. The 'he's rubbish' attitude without taking into account what an academy graduate adds to the squad is pretty primative (word of the week :) IMO.

HB {Ed007's Note - That's not even a word ya banger!!}

15 Aug 2013 10:46:08
Correct me if I'm wrong but the set figure in the release figure as expired, Everton are skint need to sell don't think they'll get near to that so called £23m price.Maybe that's what we've been waiting for.
Dylan

Fellaini simply isn't worth £23m to MU, Chelsea or Arsenal or one or more of the clubs would have met the asking price.

Sydney!

15 Aug 2013 10:16:46
Moyes has said he is confident of getting players in before the start of the season but went onto say they are working hard to get them dome before the deadline. Think he got his wires crossed and i'm not sure which he meant!

15 Aug 2013 09:45:10
Fellaini buy out clause has expired

Only for clubs not in the champions league I understand
RED JIMMY

15 Aug 2013 08:07:09
Feel like Fellaini will be our only big signing. Can't see anyone big coming in, hoping a Modric-esque signing but unlikely.

Big signing is needed to win over fans, but who knows in silly season what could happen.

Don't read into any of the Ronaldo/Bale rumours - we aren't getting them.

Can I ask how you know we aren't getting them?

We are a big enough club to sign either and people need to remember that and stop talking about these players like they are out of our league!

Are you suggesting Moyes needs a big signing to win over the fans?
Give the guy a break.
He's took over a huge job (maybe impossible) trying to replace SAF.
He's been left with the mess of SAF teaching Rooney a lesson to deal with.
This squad won the EPL at a canter and were unlucky against Madrid in Europe.
We do need 1-2 Midfielders of sufficient quality to give us a better chance but let's see if new training methods and a different tactical view improves things.
Don't forget we've been very frugal in the market since 2008 so let's not expect too much.
AJK

How can you say Fellaini would not be as big a signing as Modric? Fellaini is one of the biggest players out there, at least 9 inches bigger than Modric.
Raffa

Great post AJK let the pundits continue with their (hope Moyes cocks up)drivel.Man Utd will continue along very well this season irrespective of signings, fans are listening to all of this nonsense and because we are not in any competitions we can't ram this crap down their throats until the league starts.
We have our target/s and that hasn't changed I'm convinced SAF and Moyes discussed them and hopefully they come off but I won't be worried about challenging on all four fronts with our current squad, we may not retain the EPL but I guarantee that David Moyes will see off Jose, Pellegrini and Rodgers!
Dylan

So why do you think our big signing will be a player who has just had his release clause end and bar lazy journalism and Moyes being his ex manager there is no evidence so far of ANY interest in the player?
Invisible STuey

15 Aug 2013 06:42:37
What do we need baines for guys?that position already
Has three gud players, why not concentrate on 2 midfielders we need

Agreed

Imo because he is an upgrade on evra who has been slack at the back for a good season or 2, Baines is also more effective in the attacking 3rd. Fabio is good cover but is naturally a right sided full back (so can cover his bro) and buttner is decent cover for the left hand side but not good enough to start.

Hb

15 Aug 2013 11:35:26
Baines would be excellent at United but I agree that 2 midfielders is priority.

15 Aug 2013 03:19:37
Cesc Fabregas has filed for a restraining order against David Moyes and Manchester United.

Manchester United have come out with an official response stating "We respect Cesc's decision to do so."