Manchester United Banter Archive August 15 2014

15 Aug 2014 23:13:20
LvG on Vidal to #mufc: "I will discuss it with Ed Woodward, not you (press)."

Finally some proof that we are trying to sign Vidal which has come from the manager.

I would imagine talking to Woodward about a transfer of a player to us would be like talking to the prime minister about the ins and outs of living on the dole. Clueless!

Don't know if you read it Syd, but apparently Vidal asked about his future, and all he would say was, 'my future is to train well'.

I don't think this deal is as dead as the papers are reporting.

My personal opinion is that Juve will wait to the last minute so they don't have to reinvest in the squad immediately and therefore avoid a backlash from the fans.

Jake, good thinking, that would suit Juve. I guess after getting Morata & Hernandez (in a swap) would almost complete them. There was talk of Lavezzi, but why when they have Tevez? I think you could be right about Juve.

15 Aug 2014 20:47:49
If juve really want chica I don't think he will be in the team tomorrow

In normal circumstances I'd agree, but Wilson, Van Persie & Welbeck are all unavailable. Only leaves us with Rooney and at a push Adnan & Zaha. I think we may play him through desperation. He isn't injured so if he isn't in the starting line-up tomorrow it could be a sign Jred.

Wilson wasnt in the u21, s tonight probably on bench tommorow maybe?

He is starting

Cant see us getting rid of Hernandez without having big replacements in the squad. he's too big a player to lose gets goals and always works his socks off

I just hope that Januzaj starts up front.

Although he was only on the pitch about 20 mins against Valencia Fresh, it was great to see Januzaj play. He is quality, the ball just sticks to his feet and he goes by players like they're not there. He also drifted into the wide areas to get the ball and caused them a lot of problems. Janujaz to start and Hernandez to come on with fresh legs for the last half hour.

15 Aug 2014 18:58:51
Wilson out of the under 21s squad for the match tonight, assume this means he will be in the squad tomorrow unless he has an injury, does anybody know?

Injury GDS mate. He picked up an injury training before the Valencia game.

Yeah he's on the bench for tomorrows game

He has an injury

15 Aug 2014 20:54:30
An injury has been reported.But you never know.Watch this space.

15 Aug 2014 21:08:49
I have to say quite a few of the lads impressed tonite, good to see them as I haven't for a while but young Pearson buzzed around, I do wonder long Lawrence will be happy in the u21's but janko and Varela could be decent squad players this season for us I feel. Anyone watch the game?

Injured mate, United confirmed it on their twitter page. Unfortunate, would of wanted him on the bench for tomorrow seeing as we are short.

15 Aug 2014 18:56:22
I'm sure many of us are starting to get the feeling that no truly significant transfers are going to happen between now and the end of August. It also looks like we are in the unenviable position of having too many players on our books whose salaries and/or amortized transfer costs are so high as to make trades to less well heeled clubs (most of the rest of the world) feasible. So it seems we can't get rid of Fellaini, Anderson or Nani, even if we want to.

Many of you have speculated that the rebuilding process under LVG will be a 3 window affair: is that starting to look a tad rosy? If this summer passes with not a single new LVG selected player, what does that say? I have been one of the more optimistic contributors to this site recently, believing that a lot of the squad are going to play to their maximum potential this season, and that a few younger players will make surprising contributions, but with all the injuries and the total lack of any LVG sponsored marquee signings in defense or midfield, I am beginning to feel less confident.

Why not get excited about the season starting again? Don't stress until the window closes.

Moderated confidence and excitement are not mutually exclusive. My wife has just suggested I go and mop up the puddles before dinner. (US Eastern time).

The good news is I'm planning on retiring this year so maybe I can get home to Mcr more often and get to some games.

PEASHOOTER

You're right to feel less optimistic.
LVG apparently gave a list, none have been signed and the season starts tomorrow with a threadbare, injury-hit squad. You have to wonder what the board's intentions really are. For me, I think they want 4th and that way, they can add 1 player during each window, promote youngsters and call it a transition period. Whether LVG is happy with that, who knows.

Personally, I think he won't take any faeces and we will sign 1-2 more players but whether they will be top drawer players is another thing. I think we'll get Rojo before the window closes (and we'll pray to not get any injuries to our back 3) and someone else.

If Woodward pulls off the necessary big signings before the window closes i'd be amazed and elated.

We badly need a top CB, a world-class holding/central midfielder and perhaps a top-class winger.

15 Aug 2014 18:54:26
I hope there is a plan B if the vidal deal fails, I would just go and try for Carvalho younger option maybe expensive but will only improve. He has the strength and physique to be very good in the premiership. Vidal is taking to much time and won't even be fit if he does sign. We need at least one defender and one more for midfield minimum.

Carvalho who was so heavily scouted under Moyes is not even a target for LvG?

Lars Bender anyone?

There are a few good CM's out there who would cost half of Vidal and could do a solid job. Hopefully we know when to turn our attentions elsewhere.

15 Aug 2014 18:24:37
Evening all, I personally think the Vidal deal is dead but do you think its possible that Juve could be holding out until the last minute so they could keep hold of the transfer money? I've heard their not flush with cash and could deal with the backlash from fans a little better if vidal hands in a transfer request with a couple of days to go before deadline day, I mean the fans wouldn't be too happy with the player but the club could then just blame him for them not re investing the fee? This is just a theory, i'm not saying its what I thinks happening :). Cheers

RD

15 Aug 2014 18:55:45
They've already spent the transfer money. They need to recoup it by making a sale now.

Hope so. :)

15 Aug 2014 15:31:47
Ed's and everyone else, Why do you think Vidal hasn't came out and said "I'm staying at Juve"?

Do you really need it explained to you Sweg mate?

Haha beat me to it Syd

It's a fair point, if he has the intention of joining United then a loyalty bonus shouldn't be an issue. It's quite embarrassing how badly we struggle to complete transfers.

Great answer Sydney! Why even comment with an answer like that totally pointless!

Sweg you will find out soon enough

Would you pass up £2m that you are entitled to?

Syd
Where do YOU think the hold up is?
Are we negotiating a lower price?
Are juve considering 2 bids?
Are we negotiating his salary?
Is he considering his options?

If it meant getting the move I want and doubling my wage I would give up 2 mill.
If vidal stays at juve because he didn't want to say he wants to leave, well that would tell its own story

It's pretty naive to think this transfer is dragging on all summer just because of a loyalty bonus? Vidal would stand to double his wages (roughly) by signing with us so I highly doubt this is the reason.

That wasn't the OP's question. But I think we are at this stage:

Vidal has agreed to join in principle.

No fee agreed with Juve.

Juve want him to forfeit his 5%.

Obviously the reason he (Vidal) hasn't said he's staying is because he doesn't know if he's staying.

Redarmy87, what would you prefer:

Option 1. Move to MU and get a much bigger salary?

or

Option 2. Move to MU and get a Much bigger salary and a £2m loyalty fee that he is entitled to?

Somewhere along the lines something will have to give, simply because Juve need to sell and they want to bring in their major targets. Hopefully this standoff will end in a compromise so it can move on. Hernandez may just be the golden nugget that gets us King Arthur.

His loyalty bonus could well be tied in with how much a fee he receives in any transfer so we could be talking more than 2m it could well be as high as 5m. That is a lot of money to give up.

My opinion is that Vidal is happy enough at Juve, he turned down offers from Bayern and Barca to sign for them in the first place.

We don't have champions league football this season and as things stand he has a better chance of silverware this season if he stays where he is.

Realistically the only reason for him to move is for him to earn more money, so if that is his motivation behind moving to us then why the hell will he request a transfer thus costing him money?

Why would he give up between 2-5m if the only reason he wants to move is money? It would be counter productive.

It appears that Juve will play hard ball with this as they want as much money as possible, and if the transfer doesn't happen then they won't lose out as quite simply they would like to keep the player if possible.

So there is only two ways to make this transfer happen, either we have to tell Vidal that we will compensate him for any money lost by him putting a transfer request in(which would likely cost us a lot more than the actual amount as we would have to factor in the tax. If he was to be taxed 50%, then we would have to pay him double just so he got the amount he wants. If that's the case then it would cost us between 4-10m in signing on fee).

Or the other option is to pay the money to Juve to force the deal through. Which means probably more like 50m plus Hernandez.

So realistically the situation with Vidal is either pay up or change targets.

15 Aug 2014 17:51:23
Does it matter what syd thinks? (No disrespect to yo syd). If you read the posts and Ed002's info (which syd clearly does) you would know the hold up is Juventus won't allow him to leave unless he asks

15 Aug 2014 17:24:01
So by what everyone's said he's having to forfeit his 5% to join by saying he wants to leave but he's not saying that just yet incase we offer enough where Juve find it too good to refuse?

Like redarmy says the wages we're supposedly offering would see him regain that 5% and a lot more soon enough so I can't see that being the reason.

I reckon the hold up is just agreeing a fee with Juve, they want to milk us whereas we don't want to overspend because of the risk that comes with him due his knee injury?

Yes agree Sydney, you can see his point of view, though there is going to come a 'push come to shove' moment when something's got to give. It would really give the whole team a lift, and change us from top 4 hopefuls to genuine contenders again.

But apparently money is no object, it seems yet again it is the only object!

Boca, no worries mate, I am only giving my opinion based on what the editor has told us.

Oz, I would love to meet someone who would turn down that amount of money without a fight. He is entitled to his loyalty fee. What he would earn at MU is of course irrelevant. No doubt MU need to agree a deal with Juve, but as the editor has repeatedly said, he needs to ask to leave before Juve will consider the bids.

15 Aug 2014 19:35:00
Oh right didn't realise that they weren't even considering bids until he hands in a transfer request.

But for Vidal if it's either ask to leave and forfeit the loyalty bonus but however get paid more after the transfer or he just can't leave then what fight could he possibly put up, what leg does he have to stand on that will see him move AND get the bonus. It's either one or the other? Basically has to choose whether he wants the move or not just like all common transfer situations.

Is his agent trying to persuade Juve to sell without him asking to leave is that more or less it?

If United really want him then they will pay him a signing bonus to make up for the loyalty bonus he is reportedly going to lose. There is no way the transfer is hinging on this issue.

Pea, again kind of irrelevant when he can have BOTH a signing on fee from MU and his loyalty bonus.

If juve aren't even considering bids unless he ask for a transfer
Does this not mean that they don't want to sell

No, it means they want every last euro out of the deal including Vidal's 5%.

Juve have to sell him. Like Ed said they needed to sell on of their two prized assets.

Pogba or Vidal.

15 Aug 2014 14:36:52
Does anyone see Januzaj having a free role like how Ronaldo used to play for us in the later stage of his career?

I know Januzaj is a bit lacking in the pace department but his dribbling is very good and he has the talent/attitude to succeed in that role.

He could be the "replacement" RvP few years down the line. Maybe not like-for-like but I'd like to see him being given that chance in that free role.

Just a thought.

Agree with most of this, though I disagree with him lacking pace. I think he's one of the few players we have that's blessed with a real turn of pace. Also in the 352 he could be very useful a one of the strikers, as Robben was for Holland in the WC. However I hope in the long run LVG develops him as a quality wide man, as we are seriously lacking in that department.

Redarmy87 I compared his pace to Ronaldo's.

15 Aug 2014 17:07:21
He's not lacking in pace at all, don't know if you've actually watched him but when he gets moving he's rapid. He's the type of player that could play well and do a decent job anywhere in one of the attacking positions, he's a smart, technically gifted lad.

15 Aug 2014 17:09:58
If you read back, you didn't compare his pace to Ronaldo's MB.

Ozwald I meant in comparison to Ronaldo he lacks pace.

I agree my original post may have been a bit ambiguous.

15 Aug 2014 13:47:26
ED do you have any positive transfer news/rumours for Utd fans?

Seems as though Vidal if off, Rojo has stalled, Cuadrado is off to Bayern & Di Maria will either go to PSG or stay at Madrid!

{Ed002's Note - You have written up a nice little summary yourself - obviously I don't agree with it.}

This is the first time I have read about Cuadrado to Bayern.

15 Aug 2014 14:18:45
King Eric,

You are the most negative poster on here bar none, your posts are getting more and more boring by the day.

Well is there anything positive? We've actually made the squad weaker this summer and now we are running out of time. I can't believe we are even in this position, especially after last year, do we not learn? I love United, but this is pathetic

15 Aug 2014 16:14:10
Is there anything positive? Read my post from yesterday about this. If you have not seen anything positive in this pre season then you might as well stop watching now.

15 Aug 2014 16:26:56
oh my word some people need a slap, calm down would you. Everyone keeps going on about how badly we did last season which we did in fairness but that was down to Moyes. The majority of players are proven PL winners, some yes are getting old but others are getting into their prime.

Okay we need possibly 3-4 more top quality signings to where we want to be but where we want to be is comfortably stronger that our PL doesn't mean we're not in with a very strong shout of winning the league. This season I reckon a lot of teams could underestimate us, especially if we don't sign the players we want BUT that'll only work in our favour. I don't see the point or reason in being SO pessimistic. For christ sake LVG in charge is a big enough signing by itself, all the players believe in him and he knows his football so there's really no need to be so negative. Not every single big signing performs to the best of their ability and turns out as good as people hope.

People have an annoying obsession with spending big and bringing big name players in but it just doesn't always work well. Just have a bit of faith and believe in the club you supposedly support.

I'm only talking about transfers GDS2.

15 Aug 2014 16:16:23
I reckon its going to be a busy couple of weeks transfer wise at Manchester United do you agree Ed002

{Ed002's Note - The club are still trying to make some deals happen.}

15 Aug 2014 13:07:54
Afternoon lads and ladies,

Been looking at the fixture list this morning, and I reckon, we have a serious chance of entering the month of November unbeaten, and possibly top of the league, due to our fixtures and no cl. Compare our fixtures to Arsenal, City, CFC and pool, AFC play 4 of last season top 6, in first 2 months, same for city, 3 out of 6 for CFC, and same for pool. Add into that the CL commitments of the above, so serious chance of being top and with a lot of momentum going into the winter/xmas period.

Just a thought, would you reckon the current squad is strong enough to fight solely for the league? Or CL qualification? That has been set as the must for LVG, so maybe we might see more movement in the Jan window than this one, please comment and tell me i'm daft, cheers lads and great job eds

We must get stronger at CB, CM, and WB, or W in the 4-3-3 to be real challengers. Any more injuries in those positions and we could struggle. Looking forward to a great start tomorrow!

With the current squad we will have to be extremely lucky with injuries to be able to mount a challenge for the title.


But I think Liverpool did it last season with a worse defence and riding on the form of few attacking players.

If RvP, Rooney, Mata and Herrera hit the ground running I think we can surely challenge.


Having said that I do think we will get in a few players before the end of the window.

We will not be challenging for the title unless some quality new arrivals come in and going unbeaten in those games is completely different to winning those games

Not with that attitude red79 we are not.

It is not an attitude MB I have watched every minute of preseason and went to see the Valencia game in person as well I have seen nothing to suggest we can crack the top four with this squad we only have 5 recognised 1st team defenders 3 of which are injured while the other 2 are made of glass our midfield is not top class if herrera were to get injured our cm pairing would have to be made up of fletcher/clevery/fellaini and maybe kagawa (still feeling confident?) up front we are fine as long as they are fit which is no given as RVP and Rooney are both injury prone as well out of our youngsters the only one who I think are actually ready for 1st team football are Januzaj obviously and I have been very impressed with blackett and would give him a shot then we have the wingers none of which are top drawer or can they defend properly which we have seen time and again with them not tracking runners

Problem is we have a lot of injuries already. These games are not easy, anything can happen early season.
We needed new faces and we haven't got them. So if we can remain unbeaten in first six matches, will be an achievement.

Red79 I am not at all saying that the squad is good and we don't have any deficiencies.

Yes we need a good CM and a good CB. Another attacking option will also be needed.

I am just saying that if Liverpool could do it last season with the squad they had then we shouldn't just rule out that we can't do it at all.

We shouldn't just say that we can't do it at all.

Ok MB I understand what you are saying and it is a fair point but I just cannot see us going through the season without injuries going by previous seasons

15 Aug 2014 11:51:04
There was a discussion yesterday about Welbeck, I stated that he will play a vital role for us this season and that he will earn us 10-12 points this year and that's why we need to keep him rather than sell him.

So I will expand on this to try and show you what I mean.

First off let me start by saying that I am fully aware of Welbeck's limitations as a footballer, yes he sometimes looks like Bambi on ice, and yes his decision making isn't always perfect, and his composure when given time to shoot is questionable to say the least.
But to say that is all he is capable of is grossly unfair and just plain wrong.
When he shoots without thinking his shots are nearly always on target, which shows he has good instincts, he just over thinks it sometimes. He is strong and can bully defenders off the ball and his hold up and link play is very good, he has real pace the kind of pace that scares defenders and he is a team player who works as hard off the ball as he does on it.

It is these strengths that will help us achieve success this season, and I will tell you how.

First thing we need to do is look at the new system that LvG is trying to implement. 3412 can be a very good system, but don't confuse it with the 343 that Pep is trying over at Bayern, the defence and midfield is set up in a similar way but the front line is where things change. At Bayern they only have Lewandowski as a top class striker and they have several top class wingers so he sets his front three us as you would in a 433. For us however we have no top class wide men and we have several strikers and several No.10's so it makes much more sense to play two strikers with a No.10 in behind them. This is done to suit the players we have and to cover the players we don't have.

Now Pep's system will still have two players out wide and plenty of pace to force the opposition team back. If you are going to play possession based football you need space to play in, you gain that space by forcing the opposition back. The best way to do that is with pace. The reason for this is the only way to have half a chance of defending against pace is to sit deep and give them no space to run into. This sitting deep opens up gaps in the field that allows your passers the time and space to keep the ball thus you have won the possession battle.

Now with our expected line up we have two strikers in Rooney and RvP who haven't got that pace, they are far from slow players but they rely on their movement to open up space for themselves to have a shot rather than run in behind the defence. This means the opposition has no reason to drop deep, in fact it would be better for them to push up as that restricts the space that RvP, Rooney and Mata require to fashion themselves a chance and being that much further away from goal if they do make space for themselves they will be 30-40 yards away from goal rather than 15-20. So the team will need some pace from somewhere in order to force the opposition back and to create that space for our best players to work in. That will fall to the wing backs, but by their very nature as they still have to keep one eye on the back door this can restrict their ability to push high up the pitch. Plus with most teams having two players on each flank they will have the ability to double up on our wing backs thus making it harder for them to break free and run at the opposition defence.

So with the wing backs being doubled up on and no pace through the middle we will struggle to penetrate any team that plays a high line. Plus that high line would enable then to play a three man press against our defence, which is the key weakness to having three at the back. A three man press means that when our defenders have the ball that all of them will be marked and under pressure with no one spare to make an easy pass to, this generally leads to losing possession of the ball in your defensive thrid which is hard to defend against as you have next to no time to readjust before the opposition are baring down on your goal.

So for this formation to work against well set up tactical teams we need to stop them being able to use a three man press against us and to do this we need to force their defence further back, to do that we need pace and not always being able to rely on the wing backs for that pace we will need someone with pace in our front line, seeing as that won't be Rooney or RvP then that place must fall to Welbeck.

It will be his pace in behind teams that will force them to sit deeper, by them sitting deeper it will relieve some of the pressure on our midfield and our defence by making it harder for the opposition to use a three man press against us, it will also open up the space between the oppositions defence and their midfield allowing players such as Herrera, Mata, RvP or Rooney time and space on the ball to move and manipulate them to open them up and create chances, especially with Welbecks hold up play. In short playing a striker with pace will be needed to make this system work to the best of its ability. You saw how LvG used it at the world cup, he played Robben as a striker so the front line had that pace to force the opposition back.

Welbeck won't score 20+ goals for us but he will with his strength and threat in behind help the team concede less goals and open up the space for our better players to create and score. Our best performances during pre season all came with Welbeck on the field, that won't have been lost on LvG.

{Ed002's Note - Note to those who reply - don't post any of your fantasy teams in response to this.}

I like what Welbeck brings and agree with your analysis Shappy. However when RVP and Rooney are fit they will both start, so we will be under the cosh as lot.

Look at the Liverpool friendly first half - this proves your point as our defenders couldn't cope with the ball as they had no options.

15 Aug 2014 12:26:38
Everything you said sounds good on paper but every pre-season game so far goes against most of what you have said.
Each teams we played against that played a high line we destroyed. Every team we played that just sat deep and defended were ineffective and struggled to open up.

As always a fantastically well thought out post with great detail but I shall summarise it for anyone who feels that tl;dr applies.

We need welbeck because he has pace unlike other squad members.

Not a convincing argument to keep him in my opinion, his cons outweigh his pros heavily. It would be very simple to replace him (insert man u can't sign anyone joke) and end up with a much greater option, speed is not a rare talent

Given that Chicha might be on his way out I think keeping Welbeck and playing him as the 3rd choice striker is important.

Wilson/Keane can chip in as 4th choice.

Chicha for his own good, needs to move on.

The main reason I wouldn't get rid of Welbeck is in case he is a late blossomer like Drogba was, like you say he has all the attributes to be a top class striker if he can reach his potential but I would hate to sell him only then to see him get to 26/27 and become a beast of a striker

I'm not sure which way this will go, I was sure LvG would likely make RvP his captain and that would make him quite indispensable, but against what I thought he made Rooney his captain. So I can be wrong at times.

But I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the season Welbeck has displaced one of Rooney or RvP for most games. It's the only way I can see LvG really making this system work for us. That's not to say that maybe next summer LvG looks for a better strong quick striker to replace Welbeck in the squad.

Speede, didn't we beat every team on tour? regardless of weather they played a high line or not?

Yes we struggled at times against teams that sat deep but we also struggled against teams that played a high line. I would mostly put that down to teething problems with learning a new system. When teams sat deep we didn't always move the ball quickly enough or intelligently enough to open them up, but that will improve as they learn the system more thoroughly.

As for teams that played a high line? They were the teams that looked most likely to score against us. So that is something we need to try and stop them from doing. As the teams that sat deep never looked like scoring.

Rooney captaincy surprised me as well. RVP didn't perform during the WC and despite LVG obviously rating him highly he probably sees RVP as the one Welbeck will be replacing rather than Rooney as he is getting older and has his injury problems.

Who knows I am going to give up predicting what will happen because I don't think the decision makers are entirely sure themselves.

But we need somebody with pace out of the 3 otherwise we look devoid of ideas, possibly why Cavani was being talked about as well.

I think Welbeck is a valuable player to keep for his pace and work rate. He offers what Rooney and RVP do not, pace to get in behind, and he is disruptive in his defensive efforts.

But his weaknesses are glaring, and not just his finishing. He cannot finish a play from the left wing, either by shot or by cross. He seems to lack the intuitiveness that Rooney has of drifting in to the right spots to finish. And he is too elaborate with his little flicks and spins. Does he actually think he is fooling anyone when he flicks right and spins left?

But our play does not drop off with Welbeck in the game. He has pace, a good work rate, combines well, and plays hard. Hopefully under LVG he can mature and show some more composure around the goal.

15 Aug 2014 13:17:18
My issue with Welbeck is that you are expecting him to be a game changer. Pace means nothing if the end product is poor.
I also don't believe that just pace is the answer to a team sitting deep. Look at the world cup. Robben, one of the fastest and most technical playing in the world was totally ineffective against Coat Rica and Argentina because they sat deep and gave him no space. Yet you think Welbeck can make the difference playing the same role in the same formation?

Speede I think you may have misunderstood what I'm trying to say.

I'm not saying Welbeck will be the one who scores the goal or creates the chance per se, what I'm saying is by having him on the pitch will open up and create space for Rooney, Mata, RvP or Herrera to do something that will win us the match. In that respect he will change the game, but he could well do it without even touching the ball. I'm also not saying that it will work every time, as you've pointed out their were times when the pace of Robben didn't have such an effect on the game. But every top team needs a plan B, and adding pace to your front line when legs are tiring is as good as any to open up a game.

The thing with someone like Welbeck is to remember the difference between the best player on the pitch and the most important player on the pitch.

The best player is the one with all the skills and the ability and is normally the one who scores or creates the chance.

The most important player on the pitch is the one that allows your best players to play to their full potential.

A great example of this is at any point in his career could you say Makelele was the most talented player on the pitch? Probably not, especially when you look at some of the players he played with. But he was more often than not the most important player on the pitch, as it was him that allowed the more talented players the time and space on the ball to win the games for his team.

Welbeck isn't in the same class as Makelele of course, but he can at times have an indirect effect on the game by doing what he does best on the pitch.

In short welbeck is fast.
I would rather give wilson a chance

15 Aug 2014 15:08:44
Fair point shappy. Though I would rather play januzaj before welbeck. He may be slightly slower but a he can take people just as easy using his skill rather then just pace and then pick out a match winning pass which welbeck lacks.

Welbeck puts opposition players under pressure quickly and is a presence. He works tirelessly for the team and is a good option. He has areas to improve, but he is doing well considering how little game time he gets in his favoured position.

As Shappy says, he enables other players the space to work their magic and his work rate leads to opponents making mistakes and a counter attack starting. We create very little in our typical build up play, so he is important.

Shappy, I happen to like welbeck but I think cgu might have different views on him.
He is frustrating but he could be good.

Jred, I'm sure Wilson will have more than a few chances this season. But do you feel Wilson has the physical presence to stand toe to toe with Premier league central defenders yet?

Thats the thing with Welbeck he has the size and speed, very few tall strong players have real pace. So he is a double threat in that way.

Hernandez is quick but he doesn't offer us what Welbeck does. Which is why three managers have chosen Welbeck ahead of Hernandez now.

With Welbeck teams have to drop a little deeper as he is a threat in behind, but due to his strength you can still play the ball up to him allowing midfield runners to come forward and support the attack.

It's not just about speed, but strength and link up play are key elements to his game which are very useful in getting the best out of the other forwards.

Shappy, did Owen have the physical ability? Wilson is lightening quick and bigger than wee Owen scrotum face.

I also really don't think wellbeck will displace rooney or rvp by the end of the season.
If lvg wanted some pace along side either of them I think he would buy someone, maybe di maria

We have wayne and rvp who can hold the ball up etc these 2 will play a large % I would rather bring wilson of the bench than welbeck .
I would like to give wilson a number of games this year coming of the bench.
I don't think that many teams will play a high line against us and the ones that do will do so as they have pace in the back 4 and strong possesion.

I think we will play possession football rather than the ball over the top.

I also think rvp plays on the shoulder and our wingbacks will add pace against a high line .

Welbeck isn't a bad player and he is improving but I disagree that he is vital to us .
He could be easily replaced and if he is out injured like he is tomorrow we would manage fine.

If welbeck played for any other team I don't think people would want to sign him.
If he played for liverpool I don't think people would be doing long posts about how good he is .
I hope he stays at the club he is a local lad and came through the ranks (even if he did threaten to leave last year ).
I also think he is improving but at nearly 24 I don't think he will ever reach real top status .

So a good squad player but not vital imo.
Wilson is the future and I would play him infront of welbeck and give him games as well as adan

No he didn't Syd, did you ever wonder why Owen only played his best with a big man along side him?

You need both a physical presence and a quick player in order to have a complete threat going forward. If you can get a player who has both then he will be worth his weight in gold to the team. We have Welbeck, so why give him away when we have no one else better with his skill set?

Jred, or both of them. What would be the point in buying Di Maria and benching Rooney or Van Persie? We wouldn't be any stronger.

Syd
No inside info etc and prob won't happen I just have a feeling that we will sign di maria .
God knows where he would fit in

Shappy
I did write a longer reply but it looks like it got binned
I will try again later if I get time

Jred, I hope you are right. There are reports suggesting we are pushing very hard to try and agree a deal for Di Maria and Vidal. I think that was the Telegraph or Times. But I'm with you, let's get him in and worry about who plays where afterwards.

Syd
I don't see where he fits in at rm any more imo he will def leave

Jred, agree, and RM have to sell him to raise the funds. I am a little worried about PSG still mind.

15 Aug 2014 11:18:49
Ed002

Could you give us a view on the Vidal situation and if any of the reported player swaps i.e Hernandez and Nani being part of the deal are true?

Is that complicating things because I would assume now there will be 3 multiple agents involved and all the other stuff that goes with it including players wages etc etc or is it just a matter of a difference in what we are willing to pay and what Juve wants?

{Ed002's Note - Read the posts - I have explained the situation.}

In a nutshell Shaz, Vidal will need to ask for a transfer for Juve to consider MU and Bayern Munich bids. He's reluctant to do this as he would forfeit his loyalty bonus. Juve would like Hernandez as part of the deal. This will drag on and BM after losing Martinez for the season will perhaps push harder for him now. I think this is pretty much it as we stand?

Well if its a choice between Bayern and United the only thing that works in our favour is that we can offer more wages.

Bayern won't offer him exhorbitant wages what we would.

MB, that is true, but what they may now do is offer him a better package due to Martinez' injury. I think if he can come to some kind of compromise regarding his loyalty fee, I think we may well just get him.

I think BM have enquird and after what juventus have said will leave it and pursue other targets. they have enquired with barcelona about song and I think he will move to BM.

It's not going to happen Mumbai_Boy.
It's gone on to long and getting boring now. i'd be happy if we brought anyone in at this rate.

Yes Syd, that's what I'm hoping


Simmo,
I feel we will get him by the end of the window.

I still think we are favorites if Vidal will leave. As far as Bayern go, Martinez was playing at CB, I can't see how Vidal is suddenly who they are targeting again.

{Ed002's Note - Vidal was of interest as a replacement for Kroos, but Bayern are going to be trimming their squad a tiny bit in the next week or so.}

If Bayern are in for him and willing to pay what Juventus want then I would imagine we wouldn't have much of a chance. If his choices are us and bayern then I think we may forget Vidal!

Jamal, we don't know BM are willing to pay what Juve want and we do not know if BM are willing to match or better our package offered to Vidal.

What we do know is MU want Vidal and they want him bad. He is what we are missing and he would be willing to join. I guess all we can do is cross the fingers and be patient.

IF BM want him they will get him. If Real want him or Barcelona want him they will get him. If we want him, pffh.

Syd with all due respect we don't even know if we are willing to pay what they want which is why I said 'if'

If Juventus accept both bids do you actually think he'd choose us over Bayern!? So basically what I'm saying is all things being equal and it comes down to him deciding us or Bayern in my opinion we wouldn't stand a chance!

Jamal, if both bids are accepted and BM offer the same package as MU, then he will probably choose BM. But BM will not offer as much as MU and as we can tell with this loyalty bonus standoff, Vidal will probably go for us if we offer the most money, not certainly, but probably, especially if all the rumours are to be believed that he's agreed to join us in principle.

15 Aug 2014 10:16:48
A lot of people have the assumption Blind can cover centre back left back and centre midfield but as a centre back he is useless as midifielder his passing his a disaster he only ever useses his left foot and we don't need him to play his best position left back he would be a pointless signing in my opinion

15 Aug 2014 10:33:34
If we get Rojo I don't see Blind being needed. He's no centre back has you said and with Rojo covering Shaw I can't see him being used as anything other than a stop gap in midfield until Stootman comes in. Personally I don't rate Blind any better than Carrick or Fletcher so I think he will struggle for a starting position even as a CDM.

His best position is defensive midfielder, 2nd best is as a CB, lastly left-back. Him and Rojo can cover several positions and would be decent signings, but we do need a great signing or two in addition to these two.

He is also very slow and not too strong.

My main worry with Blind is that he's mentioned the PL might be too physical for him. I can't remember where I read that but I definitely have.

Considering we'd need to use him as the LCB or DM, that isn't encouraging news. The last thing we need is another player who can be bullied – Evans and Fletcher/Carrick, our current players likely to play in those slots, are also lacking in physical presence.

It was one of our major downfalls in the last few seasons, a complete lack of a leader with a physical presence capable of grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck.

If he was "very slow" he wouldn't have played as a wingback Beast.

Why is everybody so bloody certain we will get Strootman in january like its a foregone conclusion it is quite obvious Roma do not want to sell him

Says who Syd?

Are you saying Kuyt is fast as well because he played Wing Back?

How many times did you see him beat a man in the World Cup? I saw him knocked off the ball and frequently scrambling trying to keep with his man after they stroll past him?

He is obviously technically good with the ball, but physically he doesn't have the capabilities we require. Our pitch is huge, pace is vital everywhere, especially as a wing back.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course. My opinion is that Daley Blind is excellent as a defensive midfield player. I certainly do not think he is slow and he is a good ball winner with good distribution. Surely LVG would not have him in the Dutch team as a wingback if he was slow. Never seen him as centre back so cannot make a judgement on that position.
Will he come to United. I have my doubts. When I read of players saying they could not turn down an offer from a club if they were approached and I hear the club saying the same then they will turn down that offer. Probably going to Barcelona who clearly wait until United are interested in a player and then go and buy him.

I don't think he is physically strong enough to be a CB in the Prem, it is far too physical for him.

To call him very slow is unfair but he is far from quick.

His best attribute which has shone through in every position he has played is his passing followed closely by his work rate.

imo his best position would be as a deep-lying playmaker controlling the tempo and the flow of the game. In a similar way yo Carrick. He wouldn't venture forward much and will work hard defensively although he would struggle against someone like Yaya Toure(but in fairness most do).

As a wing back he is similar to Reece James in that he is solid but unspectacular and lacks the pace to be a real threat going forward. Although he is much more rounded than James obviously.

As a centre back he lacks the strength needed in the Premier league.

And in midfield he is similar to Carrick and not much of an up grade. Plus I don't think LvG want's a player like this in this system, he requires a player who will venture forward more than Blind or Carrick would and leaving the deep-lying playmaking duites to the defenders.

Kuyt is "very slow" either. Both are no Sterlings, but they aren't very slow.

Shappy buddy we don't have the defenders to perform those deep-lying playmaking duties.

I would think both Rojo & Blind would step up well at MU, but for me we still need two worldies, at least one this summer.

Mumbai_boy, Evans can and will play that role until someone who can do it better arrives at the club.

We have struggled for years because of our lack of pace in midfield. We now change our tactics to incorporate wing backs. It has never been more vital for our wing backs to have a lot of pace and technical ability along with midfielders having the pace to create options for them.

Blind (if signed), Young, James, Fletcher, Mata, Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Cleverley - all lack pace. Here in lies our problem.

Shaw & Rafael are quick enough, Vidal & Herrera are quick enough and Welbeck is. We can't have too many key positions filled by players who can't beat a man for pace or we have nominal chance creation. Signings we make need to have pace (like Rojo), or we continue to be stale.

Evans is too injury prone for us to form strategies and formations around him.

Vidal and Cuadrado would be pacy players and Toure wouldn't bully Vidal either in midfield battles alowing Herrera to do his stuff

15 Aug 2014 03:36:17
Hello ed,
Can you please state which players high potential for summer transfer for manchester united? Recently I heard Vidal, Hummels probably Di maria transfer collapse. I thought Woodward said fan can hope in somethings transfer market. but now only herrera and shaw joined us and only two weeks remain.

{Ed002's Note - Read the posts.}

15 Aug 2014 04:26:34
And now reports in Italy coming out saying we never had any interest in Vidal.
What's going on guys?
Really frustrated.

And you're out for a month

15 Aug 2014 01:15:57
Everyone is talking about the injury list and I thought I would give my opinion on it all.

RVP - I thought he was being rested? he's still training as far as i'm aware. if he's injured though then that's hardly a shock.

Rafael - One of the more injury prone players we have.

Evans - Constantly injured anyway, especially last season.

Valencia - fair enough, but injuries happen especially when he's doubling the amount of work he's doing to get ready for the new season in a new position.

Welbeck - Welbz himself is prone to the odd injury, he's not as bad as Rafael for example but he's still known to pick up 2 week knocks on a regular basis.

Shaw - Pretty similar to Valencia really.

I also wanted to say something quickly about transfers ins, outs, etc.

People are going crazy that EW has not gone out and signed Vidal, Cuadrado, Messi, Ronaldo, Di Maria, Pele, etc.

now forgive me if I'm wrong but LVG did say he wants 4 weeks to assess his squad, which means that EW has only had about a week to find out where we need to strengthen, what the preferred targets are and to then secure them.

It looks like we've identified CB and gone in for Rojo, it also looks like we're concerned about RWB and we're LOOKING at the possibility of Cuadrado.

Vidal is not happening because Juventus don't want (or really need) to sell him, sure they want other players but I think they'd rather keep him. So if Juve don't want to sell, Vidal has no reason to be unhappy where he is then we're a look screwed really.

Hummels? - I think we were just enquiring to see if anything could happen, Dortmund say no and then we move on. unless you all want EW trying to sign someone who doesn't want to move? that'll be a great use of his time.

Strootman is probably the other central midfielder, but once again I don't see Roma wanting to sell and we'll obviously go on cautiously because of his injury. LVG has proven recently with the captaincy that Loyalty doesn't rule his head.

If Strootman is available and is also ready to go then we'll probably show interest.

Blind? - I think a deal could happen, I don't think it will but he'll be a useful utility player.

I think in the end we'll sign Rojo, another CB (maybe Blind) and that'll be us done for the summer. I don't see a RWB because of Rafael, Valencia and Young being viable options.

I don't think we'll sign a LWB because we have Shaw, Young, James, Blackett and possible Rojo.

Now, I know it all might be a little lack lustre what with the promising starts of window, the links with Fabregas, Kroos, Vidal, Hummels, Cavani, Di Maria and all these other big name players but I would be very content going into the winter months with;

- Herrera
- Shaw
- Rojo
- a CB (possibly Blind)

the midfield I think is fine, well not long term but certainly short term. I have a lot of faith in Powell. I can also see, if we sign 2CBs, Jones operating in a midfield role.

when you consider the options, we're playing a 2 man midfield and we have; Herrera, Carrick, Fletcher, Powell, Fellaini and Cleverley. not too mention of needs be Kagawa and Jones.

Will that win us the League Title this year? not a chance. if it doesn then well done LVG.

But I think what it does allow is LVG to continue to assess the winning mentality of these players, it gives him the chance to look at players like Cleverley and decide whether he's a real United player, whether he's a title winner.

It also gives him the chance to get rid of the Moyes scouting system and bring his in, opinions that he I would assume trust more than anything.

A year with his own scouts, the opportunity to find new central midfielders, wingers or wingbacks, possibly forwards and defenders.

A lot of posters seem to think this is a short term job, the club has been left in a mess in terms of direction. the authority had left, SAF and Gill.

The club tried to sort things with Moyes, it didn't work and now we're back to square one. we're looking to long term dominance, one summer won't change that.

We'll be back in the top 4 next year imo. I think RVP, Rooney, Januzaj, Mata, DDG and Herrera will carry us through.

but be real here, LVG is giving Manchester United it's sense of direction back, that won't happen over night.

The academy has been average for years, the scouting has been terrible for years, let LVG work it all out so we can return to dominance. Spending £200M on Vidal and co won't change anything.

LVG has to be given time to build this club back up to where it belongs.

even though there were glaring errors with Moyes we all stood by him and gave him and his 'plan' (whatever that was) time.

Now LVG has to be given the same thing.

Ed Woodward this year imo has done a brilliant job. he's kept it all quiet in terms of details about transfers, he got 2 important deals done and dusted, then as soon as LVG returns from tour he begins work on the new set of targets - IE Rojo, TV, etc.

Please bare in mind though, that as I said earlier LVG told us 4 weeks, which doesn't mean that EW has been working on deals for months. it means that he's had a little over a week to get the ball rolling and sounding things out.

I'm excited for the future, and as for this season, as long as we're back in the top 4 I couldn't care less about whether it was 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.

Have a little faith.

15 Aug 2014 08:07:06
I'm excited for the future, and as for this season, as long as we're back in the top 4 I couldn't care less about whether it was 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.

---

Are we arsenal now?

Jose, Good post and I agree with a lot of it. However, the midfield is not ok even short term. Herrera looks very classy but we are horribly short across the whole of the middle. We still lack pace and power and urgently need to address that. Powell has been playing up front and is still untried at this level.

We are also looking short at the back, we have lost huge experience and are now left with 3 Promising CBs, 2 of whom are often injured.

I hate the doom mongers and try and remain positive. I am excited for the new season as I think the biggest difference this year is LVG. However, it does seem that Woodwoody is unable to close deals down, not sure how y can say he has done a brilliant job. Look at the 3 players Chelsea signed, top players secured quickly. I sympathise wth him around Rojo as it seems other things are at play there but it's frustrating we seem to be struggling for a CM. If we have made an offer f Vidal and either he or the club are delaying, we should move on. I think we should forget Vidal, people are getting fixated on him. There are plenty of other names we were talking about last year who all seem to have disappeared and are no longer mentioned.

I like the 2 players we have signed, we also have R to come back, Januzaj is a year older and there are a few youngsters to get a chance. I think we will complete strongly with what we have, but the length of ini me it seems to take for us to sign players is very frustrating.

The problem I have is that we actually started last season stronger than what we are looking this season, first 11 wise.

Untried players in untried tactics and no back up system, with one injury screwing everything up.

Which teams in the top 8 would be starting with James, Hernandez, Fletcher, Blackett, Smalling, Young? Then you have Jones that hasn't been great as well since he signed, with an untested CM in Herrera that would normally be blooded in slowly being our big hope in midfield.

Last season this is the type of team we would see fielded in a Carling Cup 3rd round tie against Shrewsbury, not the first game of a PL campaign which is our only major competition for the year!

By the time Cleverly has been assessed he will be 30+ the way we are going, I can't believe he is 25 already and a decision hasn't been made.

I am praying we hit the ground running, but with so many weak and untried aspects to our squad with one day left, it is another ridiculous scenario we find ourselves in.

God help us if Smalling or Jones gets injured in the warm up - could you imagine saying that last season?

If results don't go our way I can see LVG doing a Pulis, he doesn't strike me as a guy that would accept he is wrong for putting all of our focus into a formation we don't have the players for. I understand the need to have a consistent system and a fresh focus, but if you need to re-decorate your house you don't knock it down, you do so room by room, so you can still live in it as you redecorate - you certainly make sure the house is ready before your guests arrive!

No we are not arsenal but it was a realistic post our current squad is nowhere near good enough to challenge for the title so 3rd/4th is the best we can hope for this season unless quality additions are made

GDS2 - Perhaps we are for this season, we have no right to be at the top of the table, we have to earn that but it's very difficult to go from 7th to 1st in a season. especially when your team has a new manager, playing a new system with his own preferred tactical set up.

AJH - our midfield is looking stronger than last year, Fletcher has improved massively, we've added Herrera and hopefully Carrick will return to his old self.

The CB situation is worrying, my thinking is that we'll most likely sign Rojo, leaving us with; Evans, Jones, Smalling, Blackett, Rojo, Keane and possibly either another CB or Carrick and Fletcher.

It's not ideal, I would agree and ideally we need 2 central defenders to be steady at the back.

i do think EW has done a great job this year.

nobody knows who we're interested in. and LVG said there will be nothing for 4 weeks and there was nothing for 4 weeks - then Rojo and TM appeared as credible targets.

What is EW supposed to do when he hasn't received targets from LVG? as far as I'm concerned he signed 2 players early on, kept everything on the down low then he got his orders from LVG and moved for players. one preferred Barcelona and the other looks likely.

I agree with Vidal, we do need to move on, funnily enough as I've said previously my 2 options would be Gundogan and Strootman both who are struggling with an injury comeback. However, I would happily not sign a central midfielder and then move for one of these when they prove their fitness in January or the summer.

Beast - I actually disagree with you here.

Giggs never started, Ferdinand never started, Vidic will be an obvious miss and then shaw is just better than Evra.

Every team bar Manchester City would take Hernandez imo. James is a kid that is only starting because of injuries he's an up and coming SQUAD player.

Fletcher is a United legend as far as i'm concerned. If he can show half the form from the 08, 09, 10 years then we're getting some player back.

Blackett is in the same boat as James.

Smalling is a top CB and once again I think he'd get into Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal and Everton. - I think he's on the level Cahill was on when he first signed for Chelsea.

Young - as a winger nobody, as a wing back he's shown promise and once again is a squad player.

Quick question, do you understand the concept of injuries and squad players? only 2 of those would be playing week in week out currently. Smalling and Fletcher.

I'm still unsure about Cleverley, in a similar way to Nani you can easily see the talent he possesses yet he makes all the wrong decisions regarding passing, taking a man on, taking risks, etc.

I think the tactic itself will carry us through the season if i'm honest. if we can keep our front 3 fit then I think we're in for a great shout of 3rd.

we do have a lot of inexperience in our side but as we've seen with players such as Papis Cisse, Javier Hernandez and as we've seen with teams; Liverpool, Everton, etc. it takes the EPL teams a while to adjust to new tactics and playing styles.

I fully expect us to beat opponents by 2 or 3 goals in most games because we have the tactical edge and the element of surprise.

sure, there will be times when Mourinho out does us tactically because he's a genius, there will be times when West Ham nick it and park the bus. there will be times when City quite simply out attack us but for the most part I think we'll have an element of surprise.

We also have double the time to work on training compared to last season, 2 extra days uninterrupted, double training sessions per day.

I think LVG has got this team set up to succeed and although it may take him his entire 3 year contract I do think he'll succeed in bringing the EPL back to OT and perhaps (depending on signings and success tactically) a UCL trophy.

oh and LVG doesn't strike me as that kind of guy, if he doesn't think the transfers are happening he'll probably go to EW and tell him we need a DoF or someone to sort out the transfers.

does he strike you as the kind of guy who quits when the going gets tough?

If you need to reconstruct your football club you do it room by room; Youth System, scouting network, training facilities, tactics, transfers.

you don't do it all in one go.

Your analogy sums up my point perfectly haha.

Jose - fair enough you make some reasoned arguments.

Obviously I understand the concept of squad players. The problem is that our squad players are not good enough and our first team players are injury prone for the most part and aside from 4-5 they would in fact be squad players for our competitors. So we will rely on our squad players (especially defenders) more than most teams do.

Even if I agree that Vidic & Rio were not starters, they at least could come in as cover. We now have Keane (who looked out of his depth), Blackett who was untested but seemed ok and who else to come in? We literally have no options. Evans is semi-proven but average for this standard, Jones & Smalling are not the finished article and need a lot of polishing. All of them are injury prone.

The Valencia manager (Neno I think) knew what he was doing, most prem teams are better than them and will adopt the same tactic. We really struggled to create any chances. Liverpool made us look like clumsy oafs and I think any top 6 team will attack us and show our defenders up for what they are, inexperienced and lacking composure/authority.

Signings are vital and I maintain that we are weaker now than we were last season coming into the Swansea game for a great many reasons.

I look at our starting 11 for Swansea and I worry. I look at our ideal starting 11 and I worry we need too many players too quickly.

Fletcher is not a legend for footballing reasons, he is a tremendous human, but certainly not a Utd legend for what he is paid to do. In a generations time fathers won't be telling their kids about the great Darren Fletcher the midfield maestro. I am sure they will be telling them about how it's vital to never give up and what determination can do using Fletcher as a fine example, but not for football ability. We need a few Darren Fletchers, but aside from him and Rooney who has fight in our club? Maybe Jones & Rafael when fit.

I agree a lack of Europe will help, but if that work is going into players that won't be starting next season then it's a bit pointless. We need more quality and it should be in now, so we can work on the tactics, if they all come in next summer then what is the point in having extra time this season to train as half the team will be moving on if we want to compete where we should be?

LVG strikes me as somebody that can't be wrong, which is dangerous, great when the going is good, but the opposite applies, and if it's a case of us performing poorly and not brining in players then he will walk imo.

14 Aug 2014 23:43:53
Sydney
What are your predictions for the season. Utd ahead of Liverpool? Citeh champions? I promise not to hold it against you. ;-)

{Ed007's Note - RTFP.}

Will definitely finish ahead of the scouters and city will win it again. Mangala was the missing piece and expect them to make a serious run in Europe as well.

Chelsea will be in it but will not win it, contrary to popular opinion:)

Arsenal will also be in there and I reckon 3 points will separate the top 3.

You say you will definitely finish above the scousers, i'm not so sure.

Everton will finish above you again this year.

Leicester red

You are a good laugh. I wish we could have live betting on this site for guys like you and me. I will wager on it :)

We need to wait until the window is closed Irish. A lot depends on new signings for us. However we will be much stronger next season due to no more Moyes. You will be weaker due to no more Suarez, so it will be closer regardless of who we sign. But I need to see who we sign to make a fair judgement on where I believe we will finish.

GCU

How much would you have lost last year if there was though?!

All jokes aside, I think youll finish abov Everton.

But youve lost 4 players from last seasons squad and youve signed a LB whose injured and a decent CM.

So your squad is weaker than last season but with a better manager, but imo that won't be enough to plug the gap back to top 4.