Manchester United Banter Archive October 15 2012

15 Oct 2012 22:41:11
Just in cased you missed it


14 Oct 2012 20:22:56
Eds, syd anyone know what happened to Our brazilian boys from deportivo . I remember that leao and Gladstony showed promise

Jay-c

Gladstony is on loan at Twente and Leao was sent back to Desportivo deemed not good enough. Bruno Gomez and Evanglista are still very much in United's sights amongst others.

Sydney!

I believe that Bruno Gomes is over again (either now or shortly) for a brief time with us (for coaching and assessment I expect). This info is via other web sources.

However, it was widely reported that we had actually signed Lucas Evangelista (a midfielder) some time ago but I've heard nothing official. It's also gone a bit quiet regarding Aguilar (the young striker), Agnaldo (a midfielder who played in some of the junior teams pre season friendlies) and Gladstony (who alo turned out for us pre season).

So all in all it's a bit confusing - does anyone know anything further regarding the latest on the Desportivo players?

Red Rob

15 Oct 2012 19:39:23
O and Kloot, go to sonsofunited.com to have a look at the book its now available to pre-order, think their trying to get it done for Christmas. Or you can download it now. Sorry not sure how much it costs, will try and find out.

So forgot to sign, anyone else interested its a new book all about the history of United youth teams.

Mort

15 Oct 2012 19:27:33
Multiple sources claim that United have entered 'Advanced Negotiations for Kevin Strootman.

Fergie scouted the kid numerous times in the last season, lets hope its true!!

What sources are these?

nozzla

Tommy K, Daddies, Salad Cream, Curry and Gravy.

DodgyBanter

Prices will certainly not keep rising where as 80 million will be like peanuts

it will start coming down again, what with the current world financial state of affairs......

Robbo

15 Oct 2012 19:17:37
raffa

man utd debt on books is 350 million, where did 250 million pik go, ok so glazers paid it off. thats right they paid it off, told nobody about it in case of very good publicity.

"look Man United fans we the glazers have paid 250 million of debt with our own money"

or
rehashed debt in delaware, most secrective state in usa.

which is more likely, now anywhere else but delaware i would think maybe one or the other, but lets be realistic. Man United debt is 600 million at least.

10% of your club sold off to pay down debt, 60 million- where did it go, half of it to usa, wow you are really going places, next sept the same again and the following sept again.

now if you want to live in la la land and belive Man United is financially safe and sound, well be my guest, as you are at it you can believe you a one of the most successful european clubs, up there with real madrid(9) and ac milan(7).

B O H {Ed004's Note - A lot of that is guesswork with absolutely no facts and tbh from my view it makes you look very bitter. Now if you are looking at facts we have spent over 100 million net in 3 windows that doesn't portray an image of a club that is struggling and needing to sell 10% of their club annually}

Not an advocate of the Glazers, and the Delaware holding company does give them a right to hold financial information.

Might get hammered for this but take that aside their commercial nous is sound, IF we had no debt the coffers would be swollen.

Correct if wrong but I'm sure ed's said before & I agree they're driving commercial revenue vs debts to get to a net worth the values us near the 2bn mark & will most likely sell for a huge profit. They seem to have the mindset like venture capitalists - none of us know what will happen round the corner, let's just hope we keep up on the field!

Moog

Just a bit bitter and twisted are we scouser?

Pardoe

15 Oct 2012 21:21:09
Wrong, Manchester United's gross debt stands at £359m, the refinanced PIKs have nothing to do with Manchester United just like the PIKs never had anything to do with Manchester United. They are the Glazer family's personal debt. The PIKs were no more Manchester United's debt as the Red Sox debt is Liverpool's debt. The only debt that is secured against Manchester United and the club is liable for is the £359m bond debt. Andy.

Sorry but the piks were around 79m and then were taken out by a personal loan by the glazers ultimately probably repaid by the Glazers cut of the recent flotation

No Name, i recommend you take a course in corporate finance before you start blabbing stuff that is utter rubbish.

From Enterprise value ratio a 23% debt is peanuts assuming the club is worth 1.5 billion.

Your assumptions that you can financially engineer the books by registering in Delaware is absurd. Delaware has Tax incentives and many companies register there. In the corporate world every major company around will always look at the most optimized legal structure that under the law is permissible to reduce their tax burden. Talk to someone in KPMG or Ernst& young and they will explain the principle.

I am not sure how many people here have gone through a listing exercise on a major exchange but I can assure you there are very stringent guidelines that you have to follow and host of regulations you have to get through.

Finally, the last time I checked Soros is as astute an investor as they come ( this is the guy who engineered the collapse of the pound in the 80s) and he has just put a big chunk of his money in the floatation. However I do believe there is a bigger exit strategy here with a big upside for both him and the Glazers.

Finally, I hate to disappoint you but your doom and gloom scenario will not materialize.

Shahram

PS don't take this as my liking or approval of the Glazers.

"now if you want to live in la la land and belive Man United is financially safe and sound, well be my guest"

what exactly are you basing your implication on...the fact that we are profitable? the fact that debt is rapidly decreasing? the fact that we spent approx £100m over last 3 windows as Ed said?

Seriously, are we in some kind of finacial danger that is evident to you but not to anyone else?! Are we going bankrupt or struggling to pay off our debt?!...NO (thought so)

Nice try though BOH (Bitterness Of a Hoodlum)

Gav

15 Oct 2012 18:13:00
I see no passion. I see negativity to one and all. Reading his posts he criticizes, rejects, mocks and generally talks the club down. If passion is supporting your club through thick and thin, good times and bad..Passion is being a kid in 70's when United had a second division championship and a FA Cup, then the 80's when we promised so much just to fail regularly. Watching your friends (all of who were Liverpool fans) taking the piss for 20 years. I have no idea how old kloot is but these so called negative supporters should be careful what they wish for...................................................................................I am sorry regretfully you leave no name so I can not address you but like you I watched United in the 70s when we had one of the most exciting teams that have ever graced Old Trafford and would have probably gone on to win the league a lot earlier if it wasn't for Mary Brown. And yes i was there in the 80s when though the football wasn't always great and the support dwindled down to 30,000 You could always go with your mates home and away and we had some great cup runs. Not one person who was there that night in 84 when we beat Barcelona with Maradona 3-0 will ever forget the atmosphere that night. Yes I was there when we all sat down on the United Rd and shouted Fergie Out and people held up banners saying You don't know what you're doing. And of course I have been blessed to see the wonderful twenty years of domination that he has given us and the great players who have worn the red shirt with pride. It is probably for this reason that I get so angry at what the Glazers are doing to our club. No I don't want to go back to the days when players like Mike Phelan were playing for the club. I want to see the best players in the world wearing the red shirt and lets face it we generate enough income to do so. You have every right to consider me negative but at least add your name. I AM KLOOT

KLOOT adds a lot to this page, and to say he (?!) lacks passion is ridiculous... It is his struggle to filter his sometimes misguided passion for a public consumption that tends rubs people up the wrong way.

Leaving no name adds barely anything to the page.

DodgyBanter

Kloot can sometimes cross the line of decency but he makes a lot of very valid points. Ignoring all our issues is naive, mentioning them does not make you negative.

AJH

"Wasn't for Mary Brown??" Kloot you are sooooooooo sexist ! What about Tommy Doc ? Didn't he have something to do with it?
Outraged of Durham

15 Oct 2012 17:17:52
Whilst most of us agree , the way the current owners bought our club and paid for it using our money wasn't ideal , at least since the purchase they have now more or less halved the original loan of £740 million to approx £370 million. Now take a look at what is currently happening at a couple of our neighbours ,the Liverpools are about to extend their stadium to 60,000 and we all know they haven't a cat in hells chance of filling it. They propose to borrow a further £150 million for the development on top of their current debt of £350 million with nowhere near the income that United have to enable them to reduce their then total debt of £500 million, it looks like happy days ahead. The other lot over at the council house, according to the Manchester Evening News are charging £120 for a stadium tour , a tour around a ground that is owned by us the tax payers and a ground that does not have a museum or a trophy room. I presume that this is another idea to try and boost revenues so as not to fall foul to Fifa's Fair Play rules . All i can say about this is they will have to have an awfull lot of punters through the doors to make any kind of mark on their current expenditure.
Raffa

Raffa you astound me with your naivety. You say they have halved the debt well I think you will find that we have halved the debt with money that could have been spent on world class players or keeping ticket prices down. As for Liverpool not being able to fill a 60,000 stadium. That is a stupid statement the flights from Norway will be heaving. As for what is happening at the council house well all I see is money being pumped into the local community and supporters facilities . i see world class players being brought in and the possibility of more including Falcao. I look to Old Trafford and see a team that is ageing very quickly and a squad of young players that the boss seems to have little faith in. Still as you say Raffa at least we are paying off the Glazers debt. No doubt Sydney will come on here and tell you how right you are and what good owners the Glazers are etc. As for me "If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor". I AM KLOOT

The only good word you can say about the Glazers is that they seem to keep their noses out of the football side of things. However, they have wasted tens of millions on servicing a debt, and also taken out tens of millions in profits. This after having whacked ticket prices up massively. How any United fan can defend them is beyond me. I don't always agree with the mighty Kloot, but he's spot on on this one.

AJH

AJH

KLOOT, please, go support City, they need some fans. They ARE pumping money into the community, but only for their own agenda of not missing out Europe due to FFP. Also, as for the local community, would it not be great for City to field a few local names? I think there's only Micah Richards in their squad who came from their academy, which is now full 'the next big thing' from abroad. I'd rather have the Glazers in charge, produce English (and local) talent and be a self sufficient club despite the Glazers than ever look with envy at City, Chelski etc.

Oh and KLOOT, could you honestly say that if you we're given the opportunity to buy a business worth more than you could afford, but knew the business would easily cover the interest incurred on a loan to do so, that you wouldn't?

I thought not.

Kloot just Sit Down!

I think Kloot is feeling the breath of sadness!


Mort

I do agree with Kloot though, yes they halved the debt but with our money!

Its like having squatters run up a massive electricity and phone bill and nicking your wages to pay it off.

Although that stadium tour thing sounds like another dodgy scam to me.

Mort

No name Richards isn't even local to Manchester he's a Brummie!!

Mort

Actually he's from Leeds

15 Oct 2012 13:18:00
Just a bit of speculation here,maybe a convo starter.With Wazza taking on the armband for England, can anybody see him taking this role on at Utd sooner rather than later.He's obviously gonna keep playing in the Utd midfield(already comparing himself with Keane) and with Vida's injury concerns and Evras lack of form and leadership abilities it makes sense.I mean in all honesty we need it.Which in turn would lead to speculate that especially after a successful stint last season Evans can be partnered with Rio successfully and we can cash in nicely at the right time on Vida because as soon as we have a fully fit squad we've a large number of CB's and with wooton coming through he's nicely placed in line behind Smalling and Jones which gives us a lot of options.Furthermore it makes sense to assume we will sign another striker to make up for the loss of Wazza up front or maybe push through Will Keane who deserves a chance.I think we will keep Hernandez as he is class and loves the club.But yes there is a but and it could be a big BUT because I would think that with Rooney in centre along with Cleverly,Kags,Scholes,Giggs,Fletcher,Carrick and not looking to the wings I feel we could lose a lot of young lads as they may end up with 'Pogba syndrome'(thats right ive medically named it and its awesome), the only saving grace in this situation is we let the legends retire and ship out Fletcher or Carrick prob Carrick as he's not home grown and give the wee lads a run.So thats my current thoughts feel free to burn me or have a nice conversation.
Shine on.
RedKen

I'm worried about this great club of ours. Why can't SAF just go out and buy a world-class midfielder. Why are we relying on a 38yo Scholes who can't last the pace, a 39yo Giggs who is beyond useless at this point, a sick Fletcher - who may hopefully regain his full fitness, using Carrick as a DM when he cannot do this job, an unfit Ando who is going to get how many chances?. And to top all this off, we are going to try and turn one of the worlds best strikers into a midfielder??
Why can't we just buy a god-damn top-class, no-nonsense, tough-tackling, great-passing midfielder??
RedKen, the Pogba Syndrome is something SAF really needs to sort out to ensure it doesn't happen again. As Kloot discussed earlier, if Pogba had got his chance last year, we might not be having this conversation now. As others have pointed out, Petrucci should be getting his chance now, but it looks as if Powell will shove him aside now.

J Bones.

Firstly if he's comparing himself to Keane then thats a woory, someone needs to sit him down and have a word.

Secondly you never burden your best player with the captaincy, its too much pressure and invariably never works.

I do agree we seem to be lacking a few more vocal players on the pitch, think back to the '94 side and compare and its shocking.

Mort

He's not a midfielder; against top quality I fear he will be found out. Striker yes, No 10 yes, midfielder no.

AJH