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15 Oct 2013 20:42:36
For anyone doubting why we should sign Baines, watch tonight's game. Immense
Thought smalling had a decent game as well ajh
Well said AJH
Baines was definitely the best player over the last two international games. If Moyes still wants him then the board should back him and buy him January. It will be slightly over-priced but he is exactly what we need.
15 Oct 2013 19:19:05
Just read Willie Morgan's book on the wing. Fantastic read about United under Busby and then in the 70's when things went wrong. Learn your history
Won't be reading it, we had to put up with seven years of drivel from Willie, Willie Morgan on the wing, couldn't cross a ball, more one footed than Valencia, jumped to head a ball with his head in his shoulders and was eventually replaced by an amateur ( Steve Coppell ), a proper winger. Morgan was a legend in his own mind and once picked himself in Uniteds greatest ever team but in reallity one of the worst wingers ever to play for the club.
Raffa you obviously know more than Matt Busby who broke the transfer record for him and made him the highest paid player at United as well as giving him the no 7 shirt or the Brazil manager who in 1973 called him the best winger in the world. But hey what do they know compared to you. He joined the right club but at the wrong time and if you think Morgan couldn't cross a ball you are either blind or stupid or you never saw him play. I tend to think its a mixture
Raffa you clealry wasnt one of tommy docs red army, morgan was a star
Haha, to compare Willie Morgan to Valencia is laughable. For a start, Morgan used skill and trickery to pass his man, Valencia uses speed and has no tricks at all.
When Morgan ran at the defender, the ball was in the middle of his two feet, so the defender couldn't work out which way he was going, while Valencia runs at the defender with the ball on his right foot, much easier to defend against.
15 Oct 2013 17:19:31
So koke rumours are now starting, I have to admit although I have seen him in bits and peices wot sort of player is he? Shappy/mick or any1 else that could help.
A strong midfielder who can also play out on the wing. The way he shields the ball, moves forward with it without losing possession and his ability to control the pace of the game is very Xaviesque. He is a David Moyes type player imo, in that he is very difficult to knock off the ball and imposes himself on the game. Good at free kicks and corners as well. One thing that particularly impressed me in some of the games I have watched is his tactical discipline, and he sticks to the manager's gameplan.
Is very decent on the wing too. He might need to work a little bit more on his composure, although he can take a player on beat him. Retains possession well under pressure.
A very good young player overall, and will only get better. Will be difficult to convince him to move in January though. Athletico have made a great start to the season.
Thanx buddy
I've watched him a lot this and last season. He is very good in possession. Excellent passer. Good dead ball taker.
But in my opinion, we should get him and Arda turan if we can, as they play well together. I think it is a lot easier for players to settle and be effective if they have played together previously. If we can get both, then the midfield will be sorted.
But do we have the money? Or will Woodward/Moyes want to buy them on the cheap?
16 Oct 2013 11:19:00
Koke would actually be my first choice for our midfield. He has it all, talent, skill, and work rate. He always puts a shift in, but the difference is that he has the talent to have a real impact on the game. He has a real eye for a pass, and has the technical ability to pull them off.
He has the typical Spanish passing, with a british work rate, and a reading of the game that allows him to not only effect the game going forward but allows him to be effective defensively. He also is a well built lad and won't be bullied off the ball like some other Spanish midfielders can be.
He is also very very versitile, he is best used central where he can have the most effect on the game, but is just as useful if played wide as he has brilliant crossing ability.
I would go all out to sign this lad.
Shappy
100% agree. If we were prepared to pay 24 million for herrera then Koke seems unbelievable value. His size is unusual for someone with his technical ability. He reminds me a little bit of Gerrard in his younger days and already better in some areas.
I hate getting my hopes high and being disappointed. I hope Moyes does not do another fellaini type purchase and goes for players of koke's type and keeping fingers crossed.
@Shappy and GCU
I think he will not move in January, but will in the summer. Also I think release clauses only apply to clubs from the same country, but if its a buyout clause it could be different, although I don't know much about these things.
I agree with everything you guys have said, and he would be a great addition if we can get it done in January.
16 Oct 2013 13:55:31
Redfaith, i'd happily pay 25-30m for him in january if it means we get the jump on other teams. I'm pretty sure your right that the release clauses on players in Spain only apply to other Spanish clubs. A buy out clause is different as its the player who buys himself out of his contract, then effectively signs for a club as a free agent. They tend to be very tricky as they require a club to give the money to the player with an agreement in place that he'll sign for them when he's a "free agent". But then tax has to be paid on the money given to the player as it counts as income.
At the end of the day we just have to pay what the club wants for the player. If Atletico want 25-30m then we are better off paying it and getting the player signed.
@Shappy
I don't think its the price that will be an issue right now. We are in need we might as well pay what they want. The editor has given us a snippet of info regarding with whom talks are ongoing at the moment.
The issue is :-
1. Convincing them to sell such an important player midway through the season.
2. Convincing him to move to us when the biggest club in Spain is interested in him and sees him as the natural successor to Xavi.
3. The wages that Barcelona will need to offer will be far less than what we need to offer due to tax differences.
4. In general convincing him to move countries.
The only thing we may have going for us is maybe :-
1. We can give him more first team opportunities.
2. We are in a stronger financial position compared to Barcelona, but his price seems low to me, so that might not be a factor.
If I were to guess I would say that he will move to Barcelona and we will sign Herrera in January or the summer and/or Gundogan in the summer. If Real Madrid try for Gundogan I would guess Khedira might become available and that is who we would go for. Barkley might also be an option in the summer.
Its a lot of ifs and buts still. This January window will be the most interesting for quite a while. Hope the equalizer and Moyes pull a few out of the bag.
Redfaith
I agree that January is very unlikely given the fact that they are on such a good roll on all fronts. They sold Falcao so that should have helped their financial situation if there was any(not sure about their finances).
I am also surprised that he would go to Barca given the fact that he will have Xavi and Fabregas ahead of him and quite a few b team players also looking to get game time. I hope Hummels costs them a bundle :)
The Porto guy on a free would be interesting but have not seen enough of him.
I think Coentrao is definitely on in January depending on Marcello staying healthy.
18 Oct 2013 00:35:32
according to Ed02 he is talking to another club at the moment so maybe just paper talk, he does look the part though
15 Oct 2013 17:05:26
If you were an and coming young player and United wanted to sign you you would seriously have to wonder whether it would be wise to sign or not.
Look at all there recent signings Jones Smalling Kagawa Zaha Chicharito none of which have ever got a real run of games in their favoured position Pogba never got a chance and look at him but even though he has stated he left cause of no playing time others would have you believe it was not the case.
Our wingers yet again have been dreadful yet Zaha gets zero minutes on the pitch him and Kagawa must really be doubting ever signing for United Ferdinand has no legs anymore yet none of our young centre halves are getting a good run of games.
What is going on with United signing young players but having no place in the team for them.
It's not just youngsters. If we do end up having a bad season by our standards - we will struggle to convince anyone that we're not a 'sinking ship'.
That's probably a melodramatic term, I couldn't think of a better one, sorry. What I mean is, players will see our situation as 'they've lost the best manager in the world, and the new boss doesn't seem cut out for the job'. They might see as an unsteady option, a team in serious transition, struggling to find its feet.
Add the youngsters' situation, and we NEED a successful season this year - we need a top 2-3 finish at worst, and a trophy if possible, to convince potential signings we 'still have it' and can offer them a successful future.
And then you see Adnan Januzaj being given a chance. Then you see Macheda who was given a chance but failed to take it. You see Rafael who developed into a top player. Chicharito was a regular in his first season for United. Welbeck and Cleverley got their chance.
For every Kagawa there is a Rafael here. Kagawa is not a winger, its either him OR Rooney in the team for me.
Recently Smalling and Jones DID get games and both have been very injury prone to be consistently in the side.
Great reply faith, easily the best I have seen in weeks!
Well done that man!
Wheres johnnny evans?
So Rafael is the only 1? thanx Redfaith
Lol did u not read his reply devil?
Chris
I will ask you this how many games has Smalling or Jones started in their preferred centre back position? the answer is not very many and certainly no run of games even when fit.
Januzaj has started 1 game so time will tell whether he gets a run in the team Zaha has played more for England than United but don't mention him at all eh.
Hernandez was a starter in his first season but where is he now? that was the whole point of my OP you sign for United and your spend your time on the bench.
So like I said only Rafael has nailed down a REGULAR starting spot of all the players Red mentioned so LOL yeah I did read his reply
And I ask who did rafa have to dislodge?
Smalling and Jones knew they had to be patient as trying to dislodge Rio and vidic is hard, Hernandez I grant u should play more but does he offer more than RVP or Rooney? Evans has had chances and now finds hinself a very important squad player, cleverley has broke through as a squad player aswell as wellbz and Adnan is getting is chance that's quite a few young players given a chance!
We can only play 11 players at once and throwing 11 youngsters in at once will breed inconsistentcy which will then lead to people like u moaning about will any worldclass players wanna come to a inconsistent team
"breed inconsistency" unless you haven't noticed we have already lost 3 games that's a bit inconsistent is it not?
Fredinand is almost 35 with no legs how long more exactly do they have to wait?
All the players you mention have come through the academy Clev Welbz Adnan Evans if you read the first line of my OP you would see that I was on about players signing for the club and seeing their career fizzle out not academy players.
Rio had a very good season last year, is it any1s fault they couldn't read into the future and see this year he would struggle a lot?
Most of the players I mentioned were BROUGHT as young players and choose to come here!
So in your silly world we drop, Rio, vidic, rvp or rooney and replace them with young players so we can attract more young players to a team crying out for ready made worldclass players i.e RVP!
No we will just keep signing players in the 20m pound region and then realize we actually have no place in the team for them (good logic there) and if you can't find a place in our team for talent like Jones Smalling Kags and Zaha then its you that's living in a silly world.
Its about the right time, I dnt get how u dnt understand this, all your argumentss are in hindsight!
Vidic and Rio has very good seasons last year, dnt u agree?
Rvp was top goal scorer agree?
So who dp u drop on the 1st day of the season?
U say u wanna stop buying players in the 20m bracket, but in the same arguments mention about youth not wanting to sign! So wot 30+m youth playerd u want to come and be in the team right away?
U can't have it both ways! Well maybe in ure world u can but in reality u cant!
Tbh now it just seems u wanna have a moan! U have drifted from your original whinge to summit different
Rio and Vidic did not have a great season last only one team in the top 7 had a worse defensive record than United that's not great don't you agree?
Rio had to be dropped you don't need hindsight for that.
Young shouldn't be near the team yet he is Nani done absolutely nothing last year or the year before but that doesn't matter I suppose.
Where did I say stop buying 20m pound players READ my post I said stop buying players and having no place in the team for them.
You obviously think everything is great and the players that won a terrible PL last season is the way to go heaven forbid we should try move forward but hey ho whatever ya think yourself.
15 Oct 2013 12:40:39
Gan,
A reply to your post further down.
I appreciate your post and whilst it cannot be denied that United have developed themselves through various means into the Club they are now with a truly solid base, but as you say about Liverpool, I'm guessing no one in Liverpool expected their demise so you can never say never.
My points are all to do with Football, the game played on the pitch, yes I add some spice here and there but that is surely banter.
As someone who like many of my mates, has grown up with football through it's good and bad, I know what good football is and what it's not, as do I might add everyone on here, maybe not CTR I admit, but the rest sure.
So on the footballing side, mine and many others opinion is that your current squad is without doubt the poorest of the top 6. I find myself amazed that fans on here continue to deny it and still claim you have numerous world class players. You simply don't. You really will struggle to find many teams in the EPL playing a worse brand of football.
Your squad is out of form, out of confidence, plainly unhappy and de motivated, your transfer window sucked beyond belief.
A simple example is Fellaini, no one but no one wanted him and you still paid about £10 million more than he was worth, Spurs on the other hand for example spent a combined £22 million of Christian Eriksen and Etienne Capoue. I mean who did the better business.
The argument about Herrera just doesn't add up either, close to £26 million and if he was earmarked as a replacement for Fabregas he'll be waiting a hell of a long time. He hasn't even been capped by Spain and I gave you a list of players that are ahead of him.
Who do you really believe that Moyes is going to attract to replace what really needs replacing at United.
We all have quality youth in our ranks. You are just in more trouble than some on here want to believe. You play Southampton next, are they playing worse football than you and are you more likely to lose than win. When could you say that about United.
I bet there isn't one player in your whole squad that any of the top 6 would swap out for one of theirs.
Time will definitely tell and in life you have to take as well as give.
Lol so we should just ignore del Bosque who I qoute has come out and said in 2 year ander will be one of the best CM in europe or the barca scouts who still are looking at him and just except ure football manger 13 views?
I said it twice and will again ure total lack of football knowledge is staggering!
Ure obsession with me is now boardering on creepy and a lil bit immature and your constant lobbying of arsenal and liverpool fans and now a few on here smacks of a desperate man losing an argument he was never destined to win!
Ure attepts at banter are mediocre at best much like mouriniho Chelsea atm!
U say u remember the bad days of football yet show complete lack of respect to ure own clubs roots let alone others!
A month ago I found u lobbying Liverpool fans then arsenal fans and it all comes after a chelsea bad result, which I believe backs up my points of a insecure man desperately trying to prove to himself points he himself does not believe!
Gd bye Marcellus u take up too much of my time picking holes in ure nonsense so I will let's other pick apart ure drivel for a bit!
I think every United supporter agrees that we have failed to address our major issues and, as a result, we are not playing good football. We also know that this squad was held together and made successful by Fergie's will and vision. We are of mixed opinion about whether Moyes will be the right man. SAF supposedly chose him. We're hoping he's not a managerial Bebe.
I personally have made the point on this site that our squad has the lowest resale value of any of the top 6 teams. Only DDG is worth over 30m, unless Rooney re-ups. We are all concerned as to whether the Glazers will or even can (because of the debt) spend the money to acquire any top players because if they don't United could end up like the TB Bucs, their other sports franchise. The paucity of top acquisitions since the sale of Ronaldo would indicate the money simply isn't there.
Wallace l believe most players are not attracted by the Manager bt by the club and Money involved, And some players take time to settle down look at Dzeko what did he do in his first season? It is just that time is against Moyes
Susu
So your saying chelsea wouln't swap torres and ba for RVP and rooney?or arsenal would'nt swap giroud and podolski for RVP and rooney?im sure spurs would take rooney RVP and hernandez for any of their strikers.Im quite sure any of the top 6 would take vidic and i'm sure arsenal would take de gea over all their keepers.I know I've mentioned no midfielders in there but we all know that's where were lacking top quality, something you don't really need to point out to us, anyone who thought there would be no problems with all the changes at utd need to get a grip on reality, problems were always going to happen and its showed on the pitch, however we will come through it, no club can win trophies every season and we might have to accept we won't this season, however, don't expect us to be away for long, we always come back stronger.
15 Oct 2013 16:31:51
REDman,
You have been like I said, owned pretty much everywhere you post. Ask your self why so many posters select you as an easy target.
Why you find this need to copy others is a huge statement of where you fit in this world.
As usual though you've avoided the obvious truths but hey GGMU and HGLU.
He won't get it wiggy mate, he's own ego is so big it distorts any logic he should have! Add on top of that a complete lack of football knowledge and u have, well a Chelsea fan.
What world class talents has Jose attracted to Chelsea yet? The massive world star that is Willian or the world's next best winger Andre Schurrle? Oh, and don't even get me started on what is being done with Juan Mata.
Marcellus, please come back when you have some sensible points. You talk about your "youth" players, please come back when a young player gets an actual chance at Chelsea. While we are blooding the likes of Januzaj and have given a real go to youth products like Cleverley and Welbeck. You are absolutely ignorant if you do not know what youth prospects United have in their ranks. 5 years down the line you will be weeping at the bridge when you watch young James Wilson tear you apart.
No United player will get into another Top 6 team? RVP, Rooney, Vidic, De Gea, Carrick will walk into your side at this very moment. You are a perfect example of someone making an embarrassing attempt at banter.
Mr Wallace please tell me why mourinho so publicly courted Rooney during the transfer window if no top 6 team would want our players. I must agree you do have a couple of quality young players but they are out on loan and in the case of courtois not wanting to play second fiddle when the loan finishes. In your opinion do you think he will stay at Chelsea if he is on the bench each week?
Marcellus banter or not the truth hurts for some people, I go to every home game and a few aways and I talk about what I see not what my red tinted specs want me to see.we are playing crap and look shattered confidence wise, transfer window was a joke and I don't expect big money to be spent in january.we will not finish in the top 3 in my opinion and if we do please remind me and I will donate £50 to cancer uk.fellaini was a waste of £27.5mil which could of been better spent, rvp is getting no service and body language doesn't look good, zaha must be wondering why he joined, you wonder wether the rumours of him and moyes daughter are true?.if they mess up on januzaj, s new contract then they will get some serious grief.this saturday will be interesting southampton are playing well and have spent wisely it will be a tough game and could easily go pearshaped the way were performing.i also think if we don't win anything and start performing davie boy will get his p45 in the summer, its different to when fergie took over we wernt winners now the mentality is win something or your out at any top club the only exceptions recently being fergie and wenger whos years in charge we will never see again intop flight modern football
15 Oct 2013 12:05:04
hi guy's was not haveing a go at moyes yesterday, was just wondering what u guy's think.do u think we will be a top 3 club under moyes or a top 6 or 7 side under moyes and I support my team I am a united fan and will support them even moyes, but don't think we will be better then 7spot under him, hope i'm wrong zee:)
Zee,
I always thought you were a shining light amongst the dark cloud on this site. We will be a top 3 club we are just going through a transition. When we lose games like the West Brom game the shock is so large because it is exactly that, a shock. We should not see too many of them and I actually think we could still win the league.
Gds you really think we can win the league? we won't get top 3 unless there is a massive improvement and i'm not seeing any signs of that yet.saturday could be another bannana skin southampton are playing good football, lose sat and moyes will be under serious pressure 6 year contract or not.even the successful managers of top european teams now only stay 2-3 years win or not that is now the norm
15 Oct 2013 10:31:11
With the Chinese investing 800 million in Manchester Airport and pumping money into Europe I wonder what would happen if the glazers decided to put the club up for sale. So far the Chinese have resisted but they really do have the money to invest heavily.
The second the Chinese start on football it will change everything. They will compete 10 times more than the Russians and it will get really messy. I'm dreading the day that a big English club is bought by a Chinese Investor.
Didn't Birmingham get took over by a China man? look what happened to them.
Do you know if any of that 800 mill will be used to improve the passenger pick up facilities?
it's bloody awful as it is
15 Oct 2013 08:34:52
Talking with mates at the weekend discussing papers and transfers. Do the Ed's or fans have an idea which paper gets most United transfer stories right?
I'm pretty certain that 100% of the rumours from The Daily Star / Metro are utter bo##ocks while the rest of the chip wrappers are not far behind. {Ed001's Note - try this: http://www.footballtransferleague.co.uk/newspaper_statistics.aspx
That should give you an idea.}
Thanks Ed. The Guardian it is then. Interesting to see the number of Scottish papers up there at the top. Must be very hard work up there to work out if a player is going to Celtic or Rangers!
Or Hibs ;)
15 Oct 2013 08:08:55
100% Pogba he was the playing i'm still angry we let go. pogba alongside morrison and januzaj in 3 years from now would have been the best mid.
15 Oct 2013 03:25:36
So could we see hughes/Barkley arrive in January do ye think guys?hughes seems strongly linked with possibly being loaned back like Zaha was?id really like gundogan but he is cup tied sonit would be next summer if at all.would ye go for Herrera in January or hold out for gundogan?
Hold out for Gundogan, but wouldn't mind both. maybe that's too many midfielders but if we sold Fellaini we could make room ;P
We need somebody with proven pedigree otherwise it will be too easy to default to the old guard. Obviously great if we buy Barkley & Hughes, but we have Powell and a couple of others coming through and they aren't World Class yet, we need World Class if we are to progress over the next year or two. In 3-4 years we will be back to our best but we need to invest in proven quality to cover for the waiting period. I can see us going for Pastore and Schweinsteiger.